I'm sure this sentiment is repeated elsewhere in the thread, but I'm going to repeat it: This just feels like greed to me. I understand that PWE/Cryptic needs to make money on STO, or it'll just get shut down. I have no problem with that. Over the past few years I've bought ~20 ships, many of them T5. I could have gotten an LTS with the money I've spent on ships alone, let alone bank increases, boff increases, BO's like the Borg Engineer, and zen I've converted to dil for gear.
All of the ships my 4 characters fly are 2500 zen ships. Whenever possible, I upgrade to a fleet variant, because I want the latest and best, like everyone else. I've paid 3000 zen for most of my ships (2500+500 for the FSM.) Now, in order to be competitive, I need to pay another 500 or more to upgrade once again.
On the other hand, I can pay however much for a full T6 ship (likely 3000 zen,) and have powers and abilities that T5-U ships can't get. So where's the motivation to spend money on any other ships beside T6 ones, ever again?
It would appear that STO is developing a revolt. Everyone from those who started out when STO came out, life members, and the free to play, are telling STO this Tier 6 deal and the Tier 5 upgrade deal is over the top. The question is whether or not STO will listen and take heed.
Leveling up and gather a new ship is one thing, but making the not so long ago released top of the line ships into obsolete, especially for those who just got them and have not even been able to max out their potential yet, is not selling. Upgrading some ships that turns out to not even be an upgrade isn't selling at all. Will the Devs listen and act?
One can only wonder when the Devs will finally get around to fixing the exchange since it's been messed up since 9 was released. This happens every time they come out with a new season and yet for some reason there seems to be no motivation to correct the errors generated by them. So now we have a defective product that's being turned upside down and people are supposed to be happy about this? Not in my opinion.
So, apologies if this has been answered (lots of pages, and I can't find it while searching), but let's say I have a Fleet Gal-X, and I own the C-Store one. If I get the upgrade on the Fleet one, does it also apply to the non-Fleet version? Or will the non-Fleet and Fleet versions need to be upgraded separately?
If I read things right, the fleet versions and the c-store versions might have to be upgraded separately since they are different ships.
Wow bud. You're tone suggests that you're someone with a lot of disposable income or someone who has never bought a c-store ship ever - that or you just missed that guys' point.
Myself as an example:
I have the Galaxy Pack, the Oddy Pack, the Scimi Pack, the B'Rel and the Mogh. Like many others, I didn't blow that $200 on Zen to have the 3RD BEST tiered ships in the game. To potentially make me pay another $55-$110 (depending on the $5 or $10 charge to upgrade to T5-U) just to keep them all competitive is pretty bastardly IMO - that doesn't even take into account the money I've blown buying zen for modules on fleet variants.
I'll give the launch of this season a shot, but right now I'm of the opinion that STO just got the gold medal in 'Uncool Olympics'.
I own 8 c-store ships that I have all gotten with dilithium alone. If you don't want to pay money then either don't get the ships or use dilithium. T3 c-store ships are also not endgame but I dont see anyone complaining about not being able to upgrade them, all I see is "wow you like sucking [edited] dont you thats TRIBBLE."
T6 is no different than any of the other tiers and if you want ships/equip of that quality you earn them or pay for them just like everything else.
So, apologies if this has been answered (lots of pages, and I can't find it while searching), but let's say I have a Fleet Gal-X, and I own the C-Store one. If I get the upgrade on the Fleet one, does it also apply to the non-Fleet version? Or will the non-Fleet and Fleet versions need to be upgraded separately?
I may of course be wrong, but my understanding from the dev posts earlier was that the fleet and normal versions are treated separately. So upgrading one does not cover the cost of upgrading the other.
Which is BS we did not want IN THE FIRST PLACE! So take your can-do BOHICA lovin' attitude and give up. YOU ARE WRONG! The forums are no place for fan boys. Forums are meant to be constructive in making the game better. Not to promote TRIBBLE over players/consumers.
So anyone that wants to advance the story line, get new content, and progress their characters is a fanboy?
I own 8 c-store ships that I have all gotten with dilithium alone. If you don't want to pay money then either don't get the ships or use dilithium. T3 c-store ships are also not endgame but I dont see anyone complaining about not being able to upgrade them, all I see is "wow you like sucking [edited] dont you thats TRIBBLE."
T6 is no different than any of the other tiers and if you want ships/equip of that quality you earn them or pay for them just like everything else.
So, apologies if this has been answered (lots of pages, and I can't find it while searching), but let's say I have a Fleet Gal-X, and I own the C-Store one. If I get the upgrade on the Fleet one, does it also apply to the non-Fleet version? Or will the non-Fleet and Fleet versions need to be upgraded separately?
Let's say you purchase the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can claim this ship on any of your federation characters. Now, let's say you want to get the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. Since you already own the non-fleet variant, this will cost 1 Fleet Module (500 Zen). Now you have both the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit and the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can then choose to upgrade either or both of these ships to T5-U by paying a Zen cost. For the sake of this example, let's say you upgrade both.
Now, what this means on an Starfleet alt is:
1) You can claim the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit for free from the Zen store.
2) You need to be in a fleet that has unlocked the appropriate shipyard level for the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You'll also need to pay the fleet credit cost and purchase a Fleet Module in order to obtain this starship.
3) You can upgrade your Exploration Cruiser Retrofit to T5-U for free since you purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
4) If you purchase the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit on another character for the costs mentioned in 2) above, then you can upgrade this ship to T5-U for free since you've already purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
So anyone that wants to advance the story line, get new content, and progress their characters is a fanboy?
Whatever dood
No, not at all. Anyone who believes we should pay to grind or pay to win is just wrong. New content does not mean new grinding. Nor should we pay to make the new content fun. Especially since we have already paid and ground for what we have.
I feel slightly better that the upgrades are account wide. I'd feel even better if one upgrade covered an entire ship pack.
Some of them, like the Kumari Escort, with its tactical, tactical, and even more tactical design don't have a lot of versatility or replay value. I'd be upgrading that ship for one captain.
I am very happy I got all my captains both Risian ships this year.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
This game is hardly a game, it's a grindfest. Had they actually put out real content, not "repetitive content", people would not be as upset as they are. But they made us work for what we have by continuous grinding & now all that appears to have been for nothing. Work is what I do for a living, gaming is what I do for fun. Grinding is not fun, it's WORK. What's the point in continuing to log in if all we get is shafted over & over again? No wonder they've had a 30% drop off in PC gamers logging in. I predict that number is just going to go higher.
bet there r many others out there in same boat as u
i havent bought a single thing from these sharks but i can understand the pain it is causing u all
which has brought me to dis
i will buy nothin from dem nadda zip zilch i can see they givin u all da shaft
edit
i think they havnt thought dis thru very well sounds very rushed
Don't worry, most of them are for free farmed and not bought with real life money. i'm not stupid. hahaha
I bet there are some free 2 play gamers here who got more endgear and ships and all of the best stuff, etc. than any other pay 2 win gamer. it's all about knowledge.
what bothers me most now, i can't buy anymore 2 new shipslots from the c-store, i hit the shipslot cap. lol
For people like myself and many of my fleet mates that have a most of the C-Store ships are expected to shell out a lot money just to stay within spitting distance. That adds up to a lot of money.
Whatever you say fan boy. Come back when the shaft gets too much for you.
Never said I was a fan just have common sence to understand the big picture. Perhaps insted of dogging me over my thoughts you should go and work on your common sence. And to let you know I wont be comming back becouse I wont be leaving over this
Never said I was a fan just have common sence to understand the big picture. Perhaps insted of dogging me over my thoughts you should go and work on your common sence. And to let you know I wont be comming back becouse I wont be leaving over this
I am okay with the upgrading path they have created. It seems more than reasonable. I, personally, never expected that my ships were going to remain endgame ships if they ever raised the level cap. Now they have raised it and added the new Tier 6 ships. And so progression is maintained. Like in every other MMO i play.
What really boggles my mind is the fact that people expected that they get free progression from a game. Progression is always earned through some combination of in-game resources, time and real world money. All MMO's do this no matter the model. Each game just balances the costs in different ways.
I see that everyone thinks that thier Tier 5 ships are obsolte. But as I read the blogs and play the game, I realize that my Tier 4 ships are just as capable of doing an elite STF as my Tier 5. I just get things done faster in the Tier 5. Same goes for PVP, I started PVP in a tier 3 ship and was holding my own aganst Tier 5's. Now I use Tier 5's and I don't die as often, but I get just as many kills. I am not the best pvper out there, but I know that I am not the worst. Obsolences in this game is only in the players mind, not in the capability of the game. A dedicated player can get good enough to make even a Tier 1 ship do well in PVP and PVE content. Just many people don't try because that is a very hard road to travel. But I am trying to travel that path just for the sheer fun of it.
People just need to calm down and quit griping over the small stuff and look at bigger, more important issues, like the graphics not always showing, or time it takes to master one R&D school. There are more, but you get the picture.
wow.....Pretty annoyed, There are certain ships I have paid for, made sure I worked for, and have based entire toons around using. Made sure I got the fleet versions and now even if I pay extra for them they will still be inferior to the tier 6 ships when released. The vesta class ships should be a t6 ship. Honestly I'd pay for a T6 ship just to upgrade a ship I wanted, in some cases ships that were the biggest reason I got into the game from launch. The extra bridge officer slot would be a huge boost. I'd almost like to be able to pay separately for add on's to the ships, and would do it in zen. I'm honestly disappointed in this upgrade, but I am willing to wait to see if there are changes or clarification to this.
No, not at all. Anyone who believes we should pay to grind or pay to win is just wrong. New content does not mean new grinding. Nor should we pay to make the new content fun. Especially since we have already paid and ground for what we have.
Better ships costing more isn't a new thing. My Scimitar is flat out better (specs wise) than my Vadore retrofit. But I still fly the Valdore in all but the hardest content, because Donatra flew one. The Valdore got "devalued" by the Scimitar's release but I didn't care because I bought the Scimitar and had more game play options.
And for the record, I doubt any 13th BOFF power will top a Scimitar-U with an 11th console slot and the "shields up while cloaked" console that I rely on WAY too much.
Whatever the case may be, I'm not paying for what I already have paid for.
Please show me where, in these blogs/fora/podcasts, did anyone say you need to pay again to keep using your T5.5 ship at T5.5 level?
Please show me where, in these same places, anyone said that your ship will lose currently available functions?
At that point, I will, in all honesty, join you in the "we're being ripped off" brigade.
Otherwise, and what I believe is the stated intent, you will still have exactly what you paid for. A Tier 5.5 "fleet level" Galaxy-X. Nowhere in that description, or the little flavor blurb, does it say that a T5.5 ship will remain "at the endgame highest level of power". It just says that it will be better than a T5 +1 Galaxy-X, as per the "standard" fleet upgrades above the T5 and T5 +1 level.
We may have "read into that" about T5s are "endgame" - being that T5s in all their infinite variety has been the "default endgame" because of their status as the top of the curve, but even then, can you honestly tell me that the T5.5 Gal-X is no better in endgame than the T5 +1, or a T5 Sovvy? If so, why did you even pay that $10 to get 2 characters the fleet grade?
You want T5U? Pay the extra. We're all gonna have to, whether we like it or not. My determinant as to whether I'll pay, and how many times I'll pay, depends partially on the whole "competitiveness" thing about 11th console vs 13 BOff seat, the universal situation (and trust me, I'm lining up for "specialists aren't universal"), and what those ship traits are. I'm planning on grabbing a T6 Sci (if the trait is right), "mastering" her for the trait, then jumping back into ye olde Vesta or maybe even my Orb Weaver depending on whether there's gonna be Mk XIV Aux DHCs for the Vesta... That, and the Weaver's got free upgrade rights...
You want to bring your 5.5 Gal-X against my 5.5 Rademaker (if the Vesta upgrade doesn't automatically make her a 5U) after DR launches to see if you're Gal-X has lost a step? I'll be game. I might bring a 3-pack DSD instead, unless there's a cheap package upgrade to go with the $100 package I bought of DSDs... And it depends on the final price and what my stipend hooks me up with before then... (gold on the 3 month $30 plan...)
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I do not mind paying for an upgrade, those of us who paid monthly subs on mmo games through the years know it takes cash to keep the game afloat. They could keep all the free upgrades imo as long as they have a system whereby we can bring our ships up to current standards. I play these games precisely because I enjoy building up an avatar of whatever type. I don't enjoy having that avatar mandatorily relegated to second best. They can call it "competetive" all they want, use a letter instead of a decimal place even. 5-U < 6 puts 5-U in the junkyard for any power gamer. Part of what makes this game so awesome is tweaking things to max potential.
Pushing for them to upgrade free is ..not helpful. They need to make a buck like everyone else. A purchaseable+grindable+questable full t6 retrofit to keep our investment out of the scrapyard doesn't seem outrageous, I would think of it like buying an expansion pack
wow.....Pretty annoyed, There are certain ships I have paid for, made sure I worked for, and have based entire toons around using. Made sure I got the fleet versions and now even if I pay extra for them they will still be inferior to the tier 6 ships when released. The vesta class ships should be a t6 ship. Honestly I'd pay for a T6 ship just to upgrade a ship I wanted, in some cases ships that were the biggest reason I got into the game from launch. The extra bridge officer slot would be a huge boost. I'd almost like to be able to pay separately for add on's to the ships, and would do it in zen. I'm honestly disappointed in this upgrade, but I am willing to wait to see if there are changes or clarification to this.
There is clarification earlier on, the only functional difference between them is T5-U will have an extra console slot and T6 will have a 13th boff ability. Only some T6 can use the new boff type and the Mastery trait is just a trait and may not even be used at all, both ship classes can only use 4 ship traits at a time and more than 4 traits can be acquired. Think of it as the rep traits but for ships.
Guys, lets try and keep this nice and civil. No one is going to take our points seriously, be they in favour of or against this system, if we resort to insults and namecalling. I believe we do have a right to be cross that our purchases have been devalued, but thats no reason to turn on each other.
Personally I do feel that charging for upgrades is justified. Provided that said upgrades are to be equal to the top tier, not a step below it.
Although some have made the point, a valid one in fact, that the same obsolescence befell T1-4 ships, I think the case here is different. Those ships were never advertized as final tier ships to be used in a competitive situation. The Fleet/Lockbox/Lobi ships were.
I have several lower tier ships, bought mostly for their unique console and I only fly them for funsies in a non serious setting, such as a lower story mission. I never expected them to be competitive with end game stuff.
Truthfully, I'm really looking forward to Delta Rising's new story content and it looks like cryptic has done a good job on it.
But when we consider the total cost of maxing out a T5 ship under this new system will be, at the very, very least 3000 zen (2000 for ship, 500 for fsm and 500 minimum for upgrade).
I've already spent 2500 zen on my fleet excelsior. I'd be happy to spend another 500, 750 or even a 1000 zen to make her T6. But I doont find the idea of spending that zen to make her less inferior to T6 ships appealing (might as well keep it and be inferior all the way).
Got a cat? Have 10 minutes to help someone make the best degree dissertation of all time?
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
Please show me where, in these blogs/fora/podcasts, did anyone say you need to pay again to keep using your T5.5 ship at T5.5 level?
Please show me where, in these same places, anyone said that your ship will lose currently available functions?
At that point, I will, in all honesty, join you in the "we're being ripped off" brigade.
Otherwise, and what I believe is the stated intent, you will still have exactly what you paid for. A Tier 5.5 "fleet level" Galaxy-X. Nowhere in that description, or the little flavor blurb, does it say that a T5.5 ship will remain "at the endgame highest level of power". It just says that it will be better than a T5 +1 Galaxy-X, as per the "standard" fleet upgrades above the T5 and T5 +1 level.
We may have "read into that" about T5s are "endgame" - being that T5s in all their infinite variety has been the "default endgame" because of their status as the top of the curve, but even then, can you honestly tell me that the T5.5 Gal-X is no better in endgame than the T5 +1, or a T5 Sovvy? If so, why did you even pay that $10 to get 2 characters the fleet grade?
You want T5U? Pay the extra. We're all gonna have to, whether we like it or not. My determinant as to whether I'll pay, and how many times I'll pay, depends partially on the whole "competitiveness" thing about 11th console vs 13 BOff seat, the universal situation (and trust me, I'm lining up for "specialists aren't universal"), and what those ship traits are. I'm planning on grabbing a T6 Sci (if the trait is right), "mastering" her for the trait, then jumping back into ye olde Vesta or maybe even my Orb Weaver depending on whether there's gonna be Mk XIV Aux DHCs for the Vesta... That, and the Weaver's got free upgrade rights...
You want to bring your 5.5 Gal-X against my 5.5 Rademaker (if the Vesta upgrade doesn't automatically make her a 5U) after DR launches to see if you're Gal-X has lost a step? I'll be game. I might bring a 3-pack DSD instead, unless there's a cheap package upgrade to go with the $100 package I bought of DSDs... And it depends on the final price and what my stipend hooks me up with before then... (gold on the 3 month $30 plan...)
You have completely missed it. Since my stuff is no longer end game gear it has lost the value of Zen and grinding time I have put into it since it is now 3rd rate. Therefore, I, LIKE MANY OTHERS are getting the shaft. I'm done. :mad:
Why wasn't there this much raging when Fleet Ships were announced? Paying for the same ship again.
Then again that was years ago, maybe there was raging, i just don't remember it.
simple there wasn't such a big difference between zen and a fleet ship and the module cost was reasonable. I have a Gal X and my fleet was gearing up to get the fleet version. my Gal X can still compete well with fleet versions. The gap is much bigger here and we will be limited in how many ships are availible to us to use for T6 and all of my fleet HATES the new T6 fed cruiser. also they are asking us to pay 500 zen or 1000 zen to upgrade our T 5 ships and it still won't match the T6. thus all the effort we just put in our base mean ABSOLUTELY SQUAT.
3 of 4 of my Feds fly Vestas from the Vesta bundle. I was probably going to try to tough it out in the new Level 60 content anyways. But I see I dont even have the option to upgrade. WTF was one of the best selling ship bundles not included on the list? Though paying for an upgrade basically kills the discounted "bundle" I got when I plunked down $50 for the 3 ship set.
#LeftBehind
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
I'll start by saying that I never wanted a level cap increase or another tier of ships, I was happy with T5/lvl 50.. in a lot of MMOs it basically means all the gear you've got becomes worthless..
Overall though, I think what s described so far is acceptable: sure it costs to upgrade, but at least we can upgrade most of the old ships.
There's this one big exception however... the upgrade path for fleet ships that qualify for a FSM discount is absolutely horrible. A fleet ship is a per character purchase, so people are unlikely to get the same fleet ship on multiple characters, making the account wide unlock relatively worthless for fleet ships. I have the cstore T5 defiant (Tactical Escort Retrofit) which I use on multiple characters, but is the primary ship only on my tac. I like to switch ships, so I'll only get the fleet version on characters that really suit a ship. So for the tac i-I invest in a fleet ship.
Now with the T6 ships coming up, i will have to invest in an account wide T6 upgrade of the cstore T5 defiant (Tactical Escort Retrofit), this is perfectly fine for me, i'm glad i can keep using the ships i love. But here's the part i think is unacceptable: my tac is stuck on the T5.5 (fleet) ship, unless I pay for the upgrade again!! I don't intend to buy the upgrade for the same ships twice.. once for the cstore version, fine, but it should apply the upgrade to the fleet ship if it qualifies for an FSM discount as well. Basically the T6 upgrade should stack with the fleet upgrade.
If this is implemented as is, I'm not going to be investing any more in fleet ships.. the fleet ship upgrade is the lesser of the 2 and is character bound.. i'd rather use my account wide T5-U defiant on my tac then the T5.5 fleet defiant without upgrade.
Once i buy the upgrade for either the cstore T5 defiant, it should allow me to upgrade the other to a T5-U fleet defiant as well. Without this, I can't see myself investing in fleet ships any more on any characters..
Another thing, but less critical imho: upgrades of bundle ships should apply to ALL ships in the bundle, maybe at a slightly higher cost, but having to upgrade 3 ships simply to want to try another build is way over the top..
3 of 4 of my Feds fly Vestas from the Vesta bundle. I was probably going to try to tough it out in the new Level 60 content anyways. But I see I dont even have the option to upgrade. WTF was one of the best selling ship bundles not included on the list? Though paying for an upgrade basically kills the discounted "bundle" I got when I plunked down $50 for the 3 ship set.
#LeftBehind
The Multi-Mission ships are on the upgrade list, so yes, you can upgrade them.
They're listed with their C-Store titles, 'Multi-Mission explorer' etc, rather than 'Vesta' so I can see how you missed them.
Comments
All of the ships my 4 characters fly are 2500 zen ships. Whenever possible, I upgrade to a fleet variant, because I want the latest and best, like everyone else. I've paid 3000 zen for most of my ships (2500+500 for the FSM.) Now, in order to be competitive, I need to pay another 500 or more to upgrade once again.
On the other hand, I can pay however much for a full T6 ship (likely 3000 zen,) and have powers and abilities that T5-U ships can't get. So where's the motivation to spend money on any other ships beside T6 ones, ever again?
Leveling up and gather a new ship is one thing, but making the not so long ago released top of the line ships into obsolete, especially for those who just got them and have not even been able to max out their potential yet, is not selling. Upgrading some ships that turns out to not even be an upgrade isn't selling at all. Will the Devs listen and act?
One can only wonder when the Devs will finally get around to fixing the exchange since it's been messed up since 9 was released. This happens every time they come out with a new season and yet for some reason there seems to be no motivation to correct the errors generated by them. So now we have a defective product that's being turned upside down and people are supposed to be happy about this? Not in my opinion.
If I read things right, the fleet versions and the c-store versions might have to be upgraded separately since they are different ships.
I own 8 c-store ships that I have all gotten with dilithium alone. If you don't want to pay money then either don't get the ships or use dilithium. T3 c-store ships are also not endgame but I dont see anyone complaining about not being able to upgrade them, all I see is "wow you like sucking [edited] dont you thats TRIBBLE."
T6 is no different than any of the other tiers and if you want ships/equip of that quality you earn them or pay for them just like everything else.
I may of course be wrong, but my understanding from the dev posts earlier was that the fleet and normal versions are treated separately. So upgrading one does not cover the cost of upgrading the other.
So anyone that wants to advance the story line, get new content, and progress their characters is a fanboy?
Whatever dood
And you honestly want to grind more? I don't.
Its buried somewhere back there:
No, not at all. Anyone who believes we should pay to grind or pay to win is just wrong. New content does not mean new grinding. Nor should we pay to make the new content fun. Especially since we have already paid and ground for what we have.
Some of them, like the Kumari Escort, with its tactical, tactical, and even more tactical design don't have a lot of versatility or replay value. I'd be upgrading that ship for one captain.
I am very happy I got all my captains both Risian ships this year.
How did you get you current stuff in the first place? If you don't want to play the game then why are you even here?
Playing this game is/and should not be just grinding. I did my bit for king and country.
but no one wanted to be ripped off
how old are dyson destroyers? 7 months? mogh and avenger cruisers? 10 mths?
I bet there are some free 2 play gamers here who got more endgear and ships and all of the best stuff, etc. than any other pay 2 win gamer. it's all about knowledge.
what bothers me most now, i can't buy anymore 2 new shipslots from the c-store, i hit the shipslot cap. lol
Never said I was a fan just have common sence to understand the big picture. Perhaps insted of dogging me over my thoughts you should go and work on your common sence. And to let you know I wont be comming back becouse I wont be leaving over this
Your post stands for itself. :rolleyes:
What really boggles my mind is the fact that people expected that they get free progression from a game. Progression is always earned through some combination of in-game resources, time and real world money. All MMO's do this no matter the model. Each game just balances the costs in different ways.
I see that everyone thinks that thier Tier 5 ships are obsolte. But as I read the blogs and play the game, I realize that my Tier 4 ships are just as capable of doing an elite STF as my Tier 5. I just get things done faster in the Tier 5. Same goes for PVP, I started PVP in a tier 3 ship and was holding my own aganst Tier 5's. Now I use Tier 5's and I don't die as often, but I get just as many kills. I am not the best pvper out there, but I know that I am not the worst. Obsolences in this game is only in the players mind, not in the capability of the game. A dedicated player can get good enough to make even a Tier 1 ship do well in PVP and PVE content. Just many people don't try because that is a very hard road to travel. But I am trying to travel that path just for the sheer fun of it.
People just need to calm down and quit griping over the small stuff and look at bigger, more important issues, like the graphics not always showing, or time it takes to master one R&D school. There are more, but you get the picture.
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RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
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Better ships costing more isn't a new thing. My Scimitar is flat out better (specs wise) than my Vadore retrofit. But I still fly the Valdore in all but the hardest content, because Donatra flew one. The Valdore got "devalued" by the Scimitar's release but I didn't care because I bought the Scimitar and had more game play options.
And for the record, I doubt any 13th BOFF power will top a Scimitar-U with an 11th console slot and the "shields up while cloaked" console that I rely on WAY too much.
Please show me where, in these blogs/fora/podcasts, did anyone say you need to pay again to keep using your T5.5 ship at T5.5 level?
Please show me where, in these same places, anyone said that your ship will lose currently available functions?
At that point, I will, in all honesty, join you in the "we're being ripped off" brigade.
Otherwise, and what I believe is the stated intent, you will still have exactly what you paid for. A Tier 5.5 "fleet level" Galaxy-X. Nowhere in that description, or the little flavor blurb, does it say that a T5.5 ship will remain "at the endgame highest level of power". It just says that it will be better than a T5 +1 Galaxy-X, as per the "standard" fleet upgrades above the T5 and T5 +1 level.
We may have "read into that" about T5s are "endgame" - being that T5s in all their infinite variety has been the "default endgame" because of their status as the top of the curve, but even then, can you honestly tell me that the T5.5 Gal-X is no better in endgame than the T5 +1, or a T5 Sovvy? If so, why did you even pay that $10 to get 2 characters the fleet grade?
You want T5U? Pay the extra. We're all gonna have to, whether we like it or not. My determinant as to whether I'll pay, and how many times I'll pay, depends partially on the whole "competitiveness" thing about 11th console vs 13 BOff seat, the universal situation (and trust me, I'm lining up for "specialists aren't universal"), and what those ship traits are. I'm planning on grabbing a T6 Sci (if the trait is right), "mastering" her for the trait, then jumping back into ye olde Vesta or maybe even my Orb Weaver depending on whether there's gonna be Mk XIV Aux DHCs for the Vesta... That, and the Weaver's got free upgrade rights...
You want to bring your 5.5 Gal-X against my 5.5 Rademaker (if the Vesta upgrade doesn't automatically make her a 5U) after DR launches to see if you're Gal-X has lost a step? I'll be game. I might bring a 3-pack DSD instead, unless there's a cheap package upgrade to go with the $100 package I bought of DSDs... And it depends on the final price and what my stipend hooks me up with before then... (gold on the 3 month $30 plan...)
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Pushing for them to upgrade free is ..not helpful. They need to make a buck like everyone else. A purchaseable+grindable+questable full t6 retrofit to keep our investment out of the scrapyard doesn't seem outrageous, I would think of it like buying an expansion pack
There is clarification earlier on, the only functional difference between them is T5-U will have an extra console slot and T6 will have a 13th boff ability. Only some T6 can use the new boff type and the Mastery trait is just a trait and may not even be used at all, both ship classes can only use 4 ship traits at a time and more than 4 traits can be acquired. Think of it as the rep traits but for ships.
Personally I do feel that charging for upgrades is justified. Provided that said upgrades are to be equal to the top tier, not a step below it.
Although some have made the point, a valid one in fact, that the same obsolescence befell T1-4 ships, I think the case here is different. Those ships were never advertized as final tier ships to be used in a competitive situation. The Fleet/Lockbox/Lobi ships were.
I have several lower tier ships, bought mostly for their unique console and I only fly them for funsies in a non serious setting, such as a lower story mission. I never expected them to be competitive with end game stuff.
Truthfully, I'm really looking forward to Delta Rising's new story content and it looks like cryptic has done a good job on it.
But when we consider the total cost of maxing out a T5 ship under this new system will be, at the very, very least 3000 zen (2000 for ship, 500 for fsm and 500 minimum for upgrade).
I've already spent 2500 zen on my fleet excelsior. I'd be happy to spend another 500, 750 or even a 1000 zen to make her T6. But I doont find the idea of spending that zen to make her less inferior to T6 ships appealing (might as well keep it and be inferior all the way).
Then please fill out my dissertation survey on feline attachment, it'd be a massive help (-:
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/87XKSGH
You have completely missed it. Since my stuff is no longer end game gear it has lost the value of Zen and grinding time I have put into it since it is now 3rd rate. Therefore, I, LIKE MANY OTHERS are getting the shaft. I'm done. :mad:
simple there wasn't such a big difference between zen and a fleet ship and the module cost was reasonable. I have a Gal X and my fleet was gearing up to get the fleet version. my Gal X can still compete well with fleet versions. The gap is much bigger here and we will be limited in how many ships are availible to us to use for T6 and all of my fleet HATES the new T6 fed cruiser. also they are asking us to pay 500 zen or 1000 zen to upgrade our T 5 ships and it still won't match the T6. thus all the effort we just put in our base mean ABSOLUTELY SQUAT.
#LeftBehind
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
Overall though, I think what s described so far is acceptable: sure it costs to upgrade, but at least we can upgrade most of the old ships.
There's this one big exception however... the upgrade path for fleet ships that qualify for a FSM discount is absolutely horrible. A fleet ship is a per character purchase, so people are unlikely to get the same fleet ship on multiple characters, making the account wide unlock relatively worthless for fleet ships. I have the cstore T5 defiant (Tactical Escort Retrofit) which I use on multiple characters, but is the primary ship only on my tac. I like to switch ships, so I'll only get the fleet version on characters that really suit a ship. So for the tac i-I invest in a fleet ship.
Now with the T6 ships coming up, i will have to invest in an account wide T6 upgrade of the cstore T5 defiant (Tactical Escort Retrofit), this is perfectly fine for me, i'm glad i can keep using the ships i love. But here's the part i think is unacceptable: my tac is stuck on the T5.5 (fleet) ship, unless I pay for the upgrade again!! I don't intend to buy the upgrade for the same ships twice.. once for the cstore version, fine, but it should apply the upgrade to the fleet ship if it qualifies for an FSM discount as well. Basically the T6 upgrade should stack with the fleet upgrade.
If this is implemented as is, I'm not going to be investing any more in fleet ships.. the fleet ship upgrade is the lesser of the 2 and is character bound.. i'd rather use my account wide T5-U defiant on my tac then the T5.5 fleet defiant without upgrade.
Once i buy the upgrade for either the cstore T5 defiant, it should allow me to upgrade the other to a T5-U fleet defiant as well. Without this, I can't see myself investing in fleet ships any more on any characters..
Another thing, but less critical imho: upgrades of bundle ships should apply to ALL ships in the bundle, maybe at a slightly higher cost, but having to upgrade 3 ships simply to want to try another build is way over the top..
The Multi-Mission ships are on the upgrade list, so yes, you can upgrade them.
They're listed with their C-Store titles, 'Multi-Mission explorer' etc, rather than 'Vesta' so I can see how you missed them.