I did not get a chance to read the entire thread, a lot of it seemed to be the same thing from everyone and it is growing too fast to read before posting, but here is my suggestion/feedback on this situation and sorry if someone already mentioned it:
Keep the benifits of upgrading as they are, but make it free (i.e. you basically just change it so you buy a T5-U ship when you purchase it from the C-store).
---or---
Keep the Zen cost, but make it a full upgrade to T6.
You do not have to give the new specialized bridge officer slots as you said not all T6 ships will have it, but they should get everything else. I think it would be ok to do something mostly generic with the ship trait for the older ships, it would be crazy to do a special one for each, but you could make a couple for each ship type and then assign one to each ship (i.e. you make 2 general escort ship traits, and then assign trait 1 to some ships and trait 2 to the other ships).
Personally I prefer the cost to upgrade to full T6 idea, but I could comfortably live with the other option. As for the proposed upgrade method, well, I am just happy I have a lockbox ship otherwise I probably would not pay for a half upgrade.
Also, regardless of how the upgrading is done, the upgraded Fleet ships should be T6. It is just kind of silly for you guys to design a system that is T5, T5.5 (fleet ships), T5.75 (T5-U as you call it), t5.875 (Fleet T5-U) and then T6. I am kind of surprised that either A: someone internally did not think about this logistical nightmare, or B: Someone did think of it and you ignored them. That thought is also completely ignoring the fact you asked fleets to do *so* much work to unlock those ships and it would be horride to instantly make them inferior to the new ships but not worth the cost as a T5-U ship (really, why pay for the fleet ship *and* pay for the T5-U upgrade).
The ship traits are actually per type of ship, Cruisers will unlock and use different traits than Escorts or science ships.
I'd like to bring up an earlier question, will newly bought tier 5 C-Store ships in the Delta Rising era actually be simply tier 5-U, or will we still have to upgrade them separately, which if so feels like a lack streamlining.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Alright, everyone here who got a free T5.5 Fleet variant of a c-store ship when it was released raise your hand.
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller?
Thats what I thought. This is a NEW TIER. That means HIGHER than the current ones. Why do you expect to get your new T5-U ship for free? How about you try and EARN it. Zen can be gotten with dil which is earnable for free. They say 500 zen when they could just as easily say 80K dilithium. How much do Rear Adm. ships cost again? 120K dilithium? And those are base T5 ships.
I suppose you demanded a free Fleet ship once you reached lvl 50 too. You didn't? Thats strange.
The problem is not that people think they should get tier 6 ships free.......the problem is its been so long since a level cap increase and with that lots of zen and dil. invested in ships that will no longer be completely adequate is what has people bearing arms.
What I'm trying to say is that if cryptic had raised the level cap sooner.....people would not be expecting complete upgrades to tier 6 for there hard earned tier 5 ships. Time is key!
Lots of people are saying they're done with STO as a result of this news.
Lots of people are saying they won't pay money to upgrade the ships they paid money for, they'll use Dilithium>Zen.
Lots of people are just saying they won't bother upgrading or buying new T6 ships and they'll just carry on using their current ships.
Orangitis and Blastreuiss are the only people who think everything in the blog is a good idea.
Perhaps a rethink is in order?
Nah and for one good reason: mobs aren't intelligent entities. Lots of people can't even see that this is very much like the fleet ship upgrade system but better (since it's built right into the UI, it doesn't require any fiddling with the ship roster, there are free upgrades, it doesn't even require that you move equipment, and there are NO exceptions from the C-store.)
If they got through the utter apocalypse of Season 6 they'll easily be able to survive its more convenient sequel. They may not want to say that but the mob after all isn't often concerned with finding an appropriate middle ground or resolution to ANY problem it picks up the pitchforks for (it just wants self-satisfying blood.)
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Seriously cryptic? Pay to still be inferior is a joke! Do you think we are idiots? You should have at least given all existing ships free upgrades to T5.5 and allowed us to pay for T6 if we wanted the best ships out there!
I can see it now.. pay to get a T5.5 or t5-U and find out it still can't compete, then forced to pay even more money for the T6.
You see why this is so ignorant?
no.. you should give all current T5~ ships a free upgrade and allow us to pay for T6 if we want to.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
I'm not even against buying a new T6 ship, what I'm against is making all my previous ships garbage, because that is what the present upgrade does, it turns my present ships into half assed garbage that doesn't have all the features.
The starship trait ANY ship can use, it just takes a T6 ship to unlock it in the first place.
The 13 BOFF ability/specialized BOFF seating aren't a T6 feature, as it will not be on every tier 6 ship after X2's launch. It's more of a gimmick than anything.
You're overreacting.
(this is actually the FOURTH time I had to post this exact thing)
Also, I wanted to clarify how fleet ships will be upgraded in regards to account unlocks. I can definitely understand how this might be confusing. Allow me to explain.
Let's say you purchase the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can claim this ship on any of your federation characters. Now, let's say you want to get the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. Since you already own the non-fleet variant, this will cost 1 Fleet Module (500 Zen). Now you have both the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit and the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can then choose to upgrade either or both of these ships to T5-U by paying a Zen cost. For the sake of this example, let's say you upgrade both.
Now, what this means on an Starfleet alt is:
1) You can claim the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit for free from the Zen store.
2) You need to be in a fleet that has unlocked the appropriate shipyard level for the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You'll also need to pay the fleet credit cost and purchase a Fleet Module in order to obtain this starship.
3) You can upgrade your Exploration Cruiser Retrofit to T5-U for free since you purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
4) If you purchase the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit on another character for the costs mentioned in 2) above, then you can upgrade this ship to T5-U for free since you've already purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
I hope that answers some questions.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
I think part of it comes from there being a similar issue with the T5-U as there is with T5. We have so many different levels of T5 currently...so folks sometimes get confused about things while discussing T5 ships. You have folks calling some of them T4 and calling some of them T6 (lol, it's pretty close in thinking about it - comparing the bottom of T5 to the top of T5).
So now we have T5-U...but T5-U is not a single thing, just like T5 is not a single thing.
Heck, you guys yourselves have referred to part of the T5-U with different names that gives the impression that there are even more than just two T5-U categories...in referring to T5-U Lock Box/Lobi/Event and T5-U Fleet...when, aren't those basically the same (as far as the T5-U angle - not the acquiring method), eh?
Basically, we've got T5-U10s and T5-U11s...we've got the T5-U 10 console boats that are the upgrades of the T5 9 console boats and the T5-U 11 console boats that are the upgrades of the T5 10 console boats.
So in saying that somebody can...
1) Buy the Galaxy Retro.
2) Buy the upgrade for the Galaxy Retro to T5-U.
1) Buy the Galaxy Retro.
2) Buy the Fleet Galaxy Retro.
3) Buy the upgrade for the Fleet Galaxy Retro to T5-U.
...might need to make it more clear to folks that those two T5-U's are not the same T5-U's.
Even though the answer was mainly about unlocking the different T5-U upgrades, might want to make it a little more clear to folks that the T5-U upgrades are actually different for that 9 console version and the 10 console version.
edit: Heh, this thread's way too busy to keep up with...good luck and have fun, all.
Seriously cryptic? Pay to still be inferior is a joke! Do you think we are idiots? You should have at least given all existing ships free upgrades to T5.5 and allowed us to pay for T6 if we wanted the best ships out there!
There isn't any different direction, the specialist seat is the First Officer set of powers we never got years ago with a new name. I don't expect a free upgrade, just charge me for a full one. We're all going to end up in the same 3 ships the way they are doing it, if they do a full upgrade people will still have to pay for it but they get to keep what they like as well as get the new ship if they prefer.
The starship trait ANY ship can use, it just takes a T6 ship to unlock it in the first place.
The 13 BOFF ability/specialized BOFF seating aren't a T6 feature, as it will not be on every tier 6 ship after X2's launch. It's more of a gimmick than anything.
You're overreacting.
Once AGAIN, the 13th boff slot IS a tier 6 feature. The only thing that will vary is what type of slot it is, tac/eng/sci or the new variant.
At most, our current ships will be somewhat viable, after we pay again to upgrade them, for a few months. The only thing keeping them from being completely useless is an extra console and some extra hull and shields, and even that isn't REALLY comparable to an extra boff ability. In a few months to a year, they'll add some stronger variant of tier six, a fleet upgrade of something similar, that will give tier 6 ships that extra console and hull/shields, and render our current ships utterly obsolete.
Not gonna read all 60+ pages, I'm sure the usual haters are hating.
Not unexpected, and if anyone was surprised, then you haven't been around much. TBH, I expected it to cost at least one fleet module to upgrade, and that's what it should be if you purchased the ship in the c-store or Fleet store. If that's all it costs, then I support this decision.
Christ, I think the hatreds is even worse than the Undine lockbox......
I swear *munches popcorn* it's pretty bad in here.
I'm more surprised that people are surprised. And I figured that most of this outrage would've been expended over the last two weeks.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
In our latest Dev blog, Phil Gorngonzolla Zeleski, Systems Lead share all the crucial details on upgrading your Tier 5 ship to be competitive in the Delta Quadrant and beyond!
Our current plan is to release as many of the ships above as possible when Delta Rising launches.
Any ships on this list that arent available by launch will be rolled out in future updates until the entire list shown in the link above is available.
Please note that everything detailed here is subject to change due to feedback.
We also encourage you to hop onto our test server Tribble to experience this system first hand when it becomes available.
1st EC) See the Peghqu' Heavy Destroyer and Daeinos Heavy Destroyer listed by themselves in the "C-STORE, THE FOLLOWING SHIPS ARE UPGRADED FOR FREE" section? Those two belong up with the Chimera Heavy Destroyer in the "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS, THE FOLLOWING SHIPS ARE UPGRADED FOR FREE" section. You can't get the Vet Ships from the C-Store, otherwise I'd have bought them; the Peghqu' is a nice alternative to a BoP if you want a battle cloak as a Klingon, it just isn't available without a LTS or actual Vet Status :P
2nd EC) See all of those ships listed under headings "THE FOLLOWING SHIPS ARE UPGRADED FOR FREE" below them? How about making players happy and making money at the same time? Rather than merely allowing players to upgrate to T5-U for free, you could further allow an upgrade to full T6 status for a Zen cost comparable of adding the -U to other ships.
I know a big part of the problem from your perspective is likely coming up with a Trait unlock for all those ships at T6, so how about:
For "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS" ships with special consoles, make the Trait unlock an Active that allows a player to use the active ability granted by that ship's console, with a global cooldown of 2/3 (2 min in most cases, though not all) of the base ability for both the Trait and console active abilities. That would allow players to use their consoles' powers more often if they equip both the Trait and console, without allowing players to chain the power or gain set bonuses.
For "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS" ships with differing "modes", I'd suggest the Trait unlock to grant the active "clicky" ability, as described above. Granting the "mode" itself on other ships would be odd, since only those ships have the ability to alter their physical layout in the manner needed to use that special "mode" change.
This applies to the Vet Ships and the D'Kora.
For the "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS" ships that don't have shiny console powers, but have other features, I'd suggest:
Cardassian Galor Class Cruiser - Spiral Wave Armaments - grants all Phaser-type energy weapons a 2.5% chance of applying the Disruptor proc, and all Disruptor-type energy weapons a 2.5% chance of applying the Phaser proc; rather than the additional proc, Spiral Wave Disruptors will instead gain +20% Critical Severity
Jem'Hadar Attack Ship - Dogfighter - grants your ship +1 Turn Rate, +0.01 Impulse Modifier, and +10 Inertia; unlike other bonuses, these are applied to your ship's base stats before any other modifiers or bonuses are calculated
Mind you, none of these unlocks would be available without investing Zen in an upgrade from T5-U to full T6, and would only apply when players advance their Mastery to T5 with those specific ships, just as with any other T6 ship. This would allow existing "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS" ships to retain their endgame value, and promote continued spending on LTS purchases, Master Keys, and additionally the upgrades themselves...
Anyway, those are my 2 EC's.
[EDIT] Well, now that we've seen the Starship Traits this suggestion seems rather underpowered. I guess you'd need to come up with something a bit more creative for the Starship Traits... but the suggestion to allow actual full T6 upgrades stands.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
The PWE warlords are not sucking the soul out of the game nearly enough... we should have to pay 25cents a minute..
Depending on your internet connection agreement you may already doing that.
**
On topic, I am good with this Upgrade things. The only part that I would change is the Veteran Ships. These costs hundreds of dollars to get, straight-up. You can't just pick them up off of the Exchange for free or knab them from the C-Store for twenty-five bucks. They ought to become Full Tier 6 or have different Tier 6 Vet Ships available.
You're not paying again for something you already paid for..... you're paying an additional fee to upgrade something you already paid for to better stats than it came with.
You say this, but I ask myself then, why are lockbox ships not included in the list of upgrades with ZEN? Fleet Ships literally are stat for stat on par with Lockbox ships (lobi, etc, etc.)... I payed tons of master keys for them, sure, but I also payed tons of money for the upgrade to fleet, and now that's irrelevant to the devs, that's his point...
NEWS FLASH: You guys are only thinking about the ship costs. They still haven't announced XIV equipment and consoles yet, so all of your rep and fleet gear for those ships will need to be upgraded too, at a small cost.
The starship trait ANY ship can use, it just takes a T6 ship to unlock it in the first place.
Plus there are apparently other ways then Mastery level 4 to acquire these.
The 13 BOFF ability/specialized BOFF seating aren't a T6 feature, as it will not be on every tier 6 ship after X2's launch. It's more of a gimmick than anything.
Is this seriously your peoples first mmo? Have you never been through a lvl cap raise? When EVERY piece of gear that you have becomes immediately obsolete? When you bought the ships where did it say this is the ONLY SHIP YOU WILL EVER NEED??
Would you rather they not raise the cap give us new content and new systems / abilities?
For the flagships, I think it is worth remembering that they will have 11 consoles and also gain powers from their special console sets. For all we know, the thirteenth BOFF power is instead of a console power on the new T6's. I find it hard to believe that the new T6 BOFF power "bell and whistle" will be better than the Thalaron pulse.
Note that although only T6 ships will come with a Ship Trait (not T5-U), ships are not the only way to acquire Ship Traits. Ship Traits are not restricted to the ship. Its something you unlock for you captain and you can use on any ship. There will be other ways to unlock Ship Traits. More details on this soon.
This should be added to the news page, since being able to "equip" a trait in a T5-U ship makes the gap between it and T6 ship smaller.
Giving the Tier 5 Upgrade ships a Bridge Officer ability less is not a good idea. I think that will always make them second class citizens. Bridge Officer powers is the majority of the power level of a ship. You should really reconsider this aspect.
Now, this. It may be really bad depending on which rank the additional ability is. If it is one additional Ensign or Lieutnant ability, it is not so bad. But a Lt. Commander or Commander ability is a substantial and concerning difference.
But honestly, I still does not understand why all the complex system for upgrading T5 ships. Why not just give us the option to upgrade T5 directly to T6? Most of C-Store T5 are modern ships, like the Vesta, Odyssey and so on. They seem quite capable of being able to be retroffited to T6, so why not? I would not mind the upgrade costing zen/dilitium, but make it a simple full upgrade. Cryptic gets its money, players gets their ships and everyone is happy. The sense left for players who are going to upgrade its that they will get an almost T6 ship, but not quite. Why would I pay for the upgrade? It does not encourage us to spend our money on it and devalues the investment already made.
And finally, a final curiosity: as a LTS, I obtained the T5 Galaxy thorough the vet rewards in one character (but not as an account unlock). Now suppose I upgrade it and then level up another character up to level 50. I use my token from vet reward to get another Galaxy. Will it be upgradable for free? Or I will have to spend more zen to upgrade it as well?
Pre-forum change name: Captain Wilhelm Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
Lots of people are saying they're done with STO as a result of this news.
Lots of people are saying they won't pay money to upgrade the ships they paid money for, they'll use Dilithium>Zen.
Lots of people are just saying they won't bother upgrading or buying new T6 ships and they'll just carry on using their current ships.
Orangitis and Blastreuiss are the only people who think everything in the blog is a good idea.
Perhaps a rethink is in order?
Cryptic believes they have us over a barrel and a tube of lube in hand. They're not going to rethink anything until they're tried to TRIBBLE us as hard as they can.
I'm voting with my wallet. That's the only thing they seem to care about.
Is this seriously your peoples first mmo? Have you never been through a lvl cap raise? When EVERY piece of gear that you have becomes immediately obsolete? When you bought the ships where did it say this is the ONLY SHIP YOU WILL EVER NEED??
Would you rather they not raise the cap give us new content and new systems / abilities?
YES! Why not? The level cap gives the new content context but that's assuming there is no grinding involved, but there is AND we have to pay. That's wrong. MMO's might follow the almighty grind-fest concept but it's time for change.
The problem is not that people think they should get tier 6 ships free.......the problem is its been so long since a level cap increase and with that lots of zen and dil. invested in ships that will no longer be completely adequate is what has people bearing arms.
Actually Fleet ships were a "cap increase" of sorts which presented the very same challenges and was met with a less adequate solution (for example, we are still waiting on some upgrades). Perhaps if they branded it as T6 back in Season 6 fewer people would be getting lost on their way to conceptualizing what T5-U means.
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You say this, but I ask myself then, why are lockbox ships not included in the list of upgrades with ZEN? Fleet Ships literally are stat for stat on par with Lockbox ships (lobi, etc, etc.)... I payed tons of master keys for them, sure, but I also payed tons of money for the upgrade to fleet, and now that's irrelevant to the devs, that's his point...
Box ships are being upgraded for free because they are designed to be endgame ships. When Fleet ships came out they were upgraded to Fleet quality, and now to T5-U. They are unique and have no variants or other way to acquire them.
Remember that Box ships are more expensive than Fleet AND one use only, the T5-U ships are account wide unlocks.
NEWS FLASH: You guys are only thinking about the ship costs. They still haven't announced XIV equipment and consoles yet, so all of your rep and fleet gear for those ships will need to be upgraded too, at a small cost.
Feel better? :eek:
this is standard MMO. old gear gets replaced nothing to rage about or even be shocked over
The starship trait ANY ship can use, it just takes a T6 ship to unlock it in the first place.
The 13 BOFF ability/specialized BOFF seating aren't a T6 feature, as it will not be on every tier 6 ship after X2's launch. It's more of a gimmick than anything.
You're overreacting.
(this is actually the FOURTH time I had to post this exact thing)
STO Forum is all about overreaction, you should know this: :P.
The ships are not garbage and won't be. They will lack a couple features that the new ship has. Even the older ships are little under rated compared to the "Fleet", 10 consul, and 5 forward weapon some has.
After seeing the new content won't require upgraded and T6 ships. I'm happy since that is all I do. Where I see the Upgraded and T6 shine is STF/Elite STF, and PVP. Which is more where you will see them in action. I don't do those, so my regular ships will do just fine.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Comments
Hey, it's a public service, and i'm happy to provide.
The ship traits are actually per type of ship, Cruisers will unlock and use different traits than Escorts or science ships.
I'd like to bring up an earlier question, will newly bought tier 5 C-Store ships in the Delta Rising era actually be simply tier 5-U, or will we still have to upgrade them separately, which if so feels like a lack streamlining.
The problem is not that people think they should get tier 6 ships free.......the problem is its been so long since a level cap increase and with that lots of zen and dil. invested in ships that will no longer be completely adequate is what has people bearing arms.
What I'm trying to say is that if cryptic had raised the level cap sooner.....people would not be expecting complete upgrades to tier 6 for there hard earned tier 5 ships. Time is key!
Nah and for one good reason: mobs aren't intelligent entities. Lots of people can't even see that this is very much like the fleet ship upgrade system but better (since it's built right into the UI, it doesn't require any fiddling with the ship roster, there are free upgrades, it doesn't even require that you move equipment, and there are NO exceptions from the C-store.)
If they got through the utter apocalypse of Season 6 they'll easily be able to survive its more convenient sequel. They may not want to say that but the mob after all isn't often concerned with finding an appropriate middle ground or resolution to ANY problem it picks up the pitchforks for (it just wants self-satisfying blood.)
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I can see it now.. pay to get a T5.5 or t5-U and find out it still can't compete, then forced to pay even more money for the T6.
You see why this is so ignorant?
no.. you should give all current T5~ ships a free upgrade and allow us to pay for T6 if we want to.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
The 13 BOFF ability/specialized BOFF seating aren't a T6 feature, as it will not be on every tier 6 ship after X2's launch. It's more of a gimmick than anything.
You're overreacting.
(this is actually the FOURTH time I had to post this exact thing)
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I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
I think part of it comes from there being a similar issue with the T5-U as there is with T5. We have so many different levels of T5 currently...so folks sometimes get confused about things while discussing T5 ships. You have folks calling some of them T4 and calling some of them T6 (lol, it's pretty close in thinking about it - comparing the bottom of T5 to the top of T5).
So now we have T5-U...but T5-U is not a single thing, just like T5 is not a single thing.
Heck, you guys yourselves have referred to part of the T5-U with different names that gives the impression that there are even more than just two T5-U categories...in referring to T5-U Lock Box/Lobi/Event and T5-U Fleet...when, aren't those basically the same (as far as the T5-U angle - not the acquiring method), eh?
Basically, we've got T5-U10s and T5-U11s...we've got the T5-U 10 console boats that are the upgrades of the T5 9 console boats and the T5-U 11 console boats that are the upgrades of the T5 10 console boats.
So in saying that somebody can...
1) Buy the Galaxy Retro.
2) Buy the upgrade for the Galaxy Retro to T5-U.
1) Buy the Galaxy Retro.
2) Buy the Fleet Galaxy Retro.
3) Buy the upgrade for the Fleet Galaxy Retro to T5-U.
...might need to make it more clear to folks that those two T5-U's are not the same T5-U's.
Even though the answer was mainly about unlocking the different T5-U upgrades, might want to make it a little more clear to folks that the T5-U upgrades are actually different for that 9 console version and the 10 console version.
edit: Heh, this thread's way too busy to keep up with...good luck and have fun, all.
Totally! I'm with you on that one.
Dec/2008
Once AGAIN, the 13th boff slot IS a tier 6 feature. The only thing that will vary is what type of slot it is, tac/eng/sci or the new variant.
At most, our current ships will be somewhat viable, after we pay again to upgrade them, for a few months. The only thing keeping them from being completely useless is an extra console and some extra hull and shields, and even that isn't REALLY comparable to an extra boff ability. In a few months to a year, they'll add some stronger variant of tier six, a fleet upgrade of something similar, that will give tier 6 ships that extra console and hull/shields, and render our current ships utterly obsolete.
Not unexpected, and if anyone was surprised, then you haven't been around much. TBH, I expected it to cost at least one fleet module to upgrade, and that's what it should be if you purchased the ship in the c-store or Fleet store. If that's all it costs, then I support this decision.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
I swear *munches popcorn* it's pretty bad in here.
I'm more surprised that people are surprised. And I figured that most of this outrage would've been expended over the last two weeks.
1st EC) See the Peghqu' Heavy Destroyer and Daeinos Heavy Destroyer listed by themselves in the "C-STORE, THE FOLLOWING SHIPS ARE UPGRADED FOR FREE" section? Those two belong up with the Chimera Heavy Destroyer in the "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS, THE FOLLOWING SHIPS ARE UPGRADED FOR FREE" section. You can't get the Vet Ships from the C-Store, otherwise I'd have bought them; the Peghqu' is a nice alternative to a BoP if you want a battle cloak as a Klingon, it just isn't available without a LTS or actual Vet Status :P
2nd EC) See all of those ships listed under headings "THE FOLLOWING SHIPS ARE UPGRADED FOR FREE" below them? How about making players happy and making money at the same time? Rather than merely allowing players to upgrate to T5-U for free, you could further allow an upgrade to full T6 status for a Zen cost comparable of adding the -U to other ships.
I know a big part of the problem from your perspective is likely coming up with a Trait unlock for all those ships at T6, so how about:
For "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS" ships with special consoles, make the Trait unlock an Active that allows a player to use the active ability granted by that ship's console, with a global cooldown of 2/3 (2 min in most cases, though not all) of the base ability for both the Trait and console active abilities. That would allow players to use their consoles' powers more often if they equip both the Trait and console, without allowing players to chain the power or gain set bonuses.
For "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS" ships with differing "modes", I'd suggest the Trait unlock to grant the active "clicky" ability, as described above. Granting the "mode" itself on other ships would be odd, since only those ships have the ability to alter their physical layout in the manner needed to use that special "mode" change.
This applies to the Vet Ships and the D'Kora.
For the "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS" ships that don't have shiny console powers, but have other features, I'd suggest:
Cardassian Galor Class Cruiser - Spiral Wave Armaments - grants all Phaser-type energy weapons a 2.5% chance of applying the Disruptor proc, and all Disruptor-type energy weapons a 2.5% chance of applying the Phaser proc; rather than the additional proc, Spiral Wave Disruptors will instead gain +20% Critical Severity
Jem'Hadar Attack Ship - Dogfighter - grants your ship +1 Turn Rate, +0.01 Impulse Modifier, and +10 Inertia; unlike other bonuses, these are applied to your ship's base stats before any other modifiers or bonuses are calculated
Mind you, none of these unlocks would be available without investing Zen in an upgrade from T5-U to full T6, and would only apply when players advance their Mastery to T5 with those specific ships, just as with any other T6 ship. This would allow existing "PROMOTION - LOBI STORE - LOCKBOX - EVENTS" ships to retain their endgame value, and promote continued spending on LTS purchases, Master Keys, and additionally the upgrades themselves...
Anyway, those are my 2 EC's.
[EDIT] Well, now that we've seen the Starship Traits this suggestion seems rather underpowered. I guess you'd need to come up with something a bit more creative for the Starship Traits... but the suggestion to allow actual full T6 upgrades stands.
Depending on your internet connection agreement you may already doing that.
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On topic, I am good with this Upgrade things. The only part that I would change is the Veteran Ships. These costs hundreds of dollars to get, straight-up. You can't just pick them up off of the Exchange for free or knab them from the C-Store for twenty-five bucks. They ought to become Full Tier 6 or have different Tier 6 Vet Ships available.
You say this, but I ask myself then, why are lockbox ships not included in the list of upgrades with ZEN? Fleet Ships literally are stat for stat on par with Lockbox ships (lobi, etc, etc.)... I payed tons of master keys for them, sure, but I also payed tons of money for the upgrade to fleet, and now that's irrelevant to the devs, that's his point...
Feel better? :eek:
Plus there are apparently other ways then Mastery level 4 to acquire these.
Plus its probably just another ensign ability.
Would you rather they not raise the cap give us new content and new systems / abilities?
A flagship-U might be better than a T6.
This should be added to the news page, since being able to "equip" a trait in a T5-U ship makes the gap between it and T6 ship smaller.
Now, this. It may be really bad depending on which rank the additional ability is. If it is one additional Ensign or Lieutnant ability, it is not so bad. But a Lt. Commander or Commander ability is a substantial and concerning difference.
But honestly, I still does not understand why all the complex system for upgrading T5 ships. Why not just give us the option to upgrade T5 directly to T6? Most of C-Store T5 are modern ships, like the Vesta, Odyssey and so on. They seem quite capable of being able to be retroffited to T6, so why not? I would not mind the upgrade costing zen/dilitium, but make it a simple full upgrade. Cryptic gets its money, players gets their ships and everyone is happy. The sense left for players who are going to upgrade its that they will get an almost T6 ship, but not quite. Why would I pay for the upgrade? It does not encourage us to spend our money on it and devalues the investment already made.
And finally, a final curiosity: as a LTS, I obtained the T5 Galaxy thorough the vet rewards in one character (but not as an account unlock). Now suppose I upgrade it and then level up another character up to level 50. I use my token from vet reward to get another Galaxy. Will it be upgradable for free? Or I will have to spend more zen to upgrade it as well?
Join Date: March 2009
Thanks Cryptic for introducing the Kelvin Timeline. It remembered why I decided to never more put any money on this game.
Cryptic believes they have us over a barrel and a tube of lube in hand. They're not going to rethink anything until they're tried to TRIBBLE us as hard as they can.
I'm voting with my wallet. That's the only thing they seem to care about.
YES! Why not? The level cap gives the new content context but that's assuming there is no grinding involved, but there is AND we have to pay. That's wrong. MMO's might follow the almighty grind-fest concept but it's time for change.
Actually Fleet ships were a "cap increase" of sorts which presented the very same challenges and was met with a less adequate solution (for example, we are still waiting on some upgrades). Perhaps if they branded it as T6 back in Season 6 fewer people would be getting lost on their way to conceptualizing what T5-U means.
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Box ships are being upgraded for free because they are designed to be endgame ships. When Fleet ships came out they were upgraded to Fleet quality, and now to T5-U. They are unique and have no variants or other way to acquire them.
Remember that Box ships are more expensive than Fleet AND one use only, the T5-U ships are account wide unlocks.
this is standard MMO. old gear gets replaced nothing to rage about or even be shocked over
STO Forum is all about overreaction, you should know this: :P.
After seeing the new content won't require upgraded and T6 ships. I'm happy since that is all I do. Where I see the Upgraded and T6 shine is STF/Elite STF, and PVP. Which is more where you will see them in action. I don't do those, so my regular ships will do just fine.
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Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.