The BO seating thing implies to me that the new ships will have a dedicated slot for the new class of BOFF rather than a universal slot or another of the traditional slots.
Meaning the extra BOFF ability is the specialized T6 power, and that's why the T5Us don't get that.
Would really like to see the Mirror ships eligible for upgrade. Maybe resources dictated that this has to happen later, but I hate to see ships that provide so many options to players get left two steps behind.
On a more humorous note, I would say this represents CaptainGeko all too well on the current state of T6 upgrading.
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You're not happy... I grant you that. Again, not exactly thrilled myself.
Just not getting the whole "this is a ripoff" thing. At worst, you are losing out on one extra BOFF power. At most, one extra BOFF power plus the new BOFF station. I'd love to have these in my Defiant... and who knows, we may get them at some point. They never said they'd never release a T6 version of canon ships.
We know a lot more today, but we STILL don't know everything that's coming. I just find your reaction a bit... premature.
Yes, they have yet to reveal what the Tier 6 is all about. But they made it blatantly clear that our upgraded Tier 5s will not benefit from everything Tier 6 ships are.
To me, they could've easily made the new ships BOFFs be a gimmick, specific to those ships. But instead, Cryptic gives another massive middle finger to Star Trek fans who love certain canonical ships and telling them if they want to fly their canonical ships and enjoy the new content (talking about Traits), you have to pay up!
And I'm betting Tier 6 ships will be cheaper than buying the Fleet Tier 5Us.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
...
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
just wondering from the above quote about weapon slots as it seems like Fleet ships and ships like the Oddy, Scimitar, Steamrunner, Bortasqu etc already have 10 console slots so do T6 ships have extra weapon slots or are the Trait and boff slot the only increase they get on store T5?
how do you think i feel with my beloved Vo'Quv being left in the dust, unless i want to pony up for a fleet version (which i'm not sure my fleet has it unlocked yet) and then upgrade it with zen
same for my lone BoP captain, she's been sitting at the edge of the party in her tiny, tin-hulled Bird of Prey hoping for some update to make them halfway viable, the flanking bonus was okay, but it's really situational (as all but the slowest enemies turn too fast) and when i uncloak it's pop the BoP day for enemies, my shields and hull are gone quick (thank Kahless she's an engineer, keep the ship alive til recloak)
EDIT: seems the thread i was posting in got merged with another...dammit
KDF for Life! Romulan at Heart Fed cause they made me ~ :P
Cryptic's dropped the ball? or did you believe that you'd be able to upgrade such-and-such ship for free on your own?
and why the hell not? that's how you got from 40 to 50.. your ship scaling for free as you increased levels.. now they are putting a charge on top of your labor
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
now with that said. since the upgrade is coming i am assuming my ship is going to scale with my new levels. this sounds interesting. i wonder if this is really going to work?
I really like the Advanced Escort too. You will be able to upgrade both the Multi-Vector Advanced Escort and the Fleet Advanced Escort to T5-U for a to be determined cost.
This is actually a very good question. For example - I own the Galaxy bundle. My main has a Fleet Gal-X though. If I upgrade my CStore version I get T5-U? Is there any advantage to upgrading the Fleet Gal-X? Are Fleet ship stats going to be higher after the conversion? Finally, do I have to pay twice (upgrade the CStore version, then the Fleet seperately).
Fleet ships are an improvements upon Tier 5 ships. T5-U Fleet ships are improved versions of T5-U ships. But, yes you will need to pay to upgrade each ship from T5 to T5-U. My advice would be to only upgrade the ship you plan on using.
Also, I wanted to clarify how fleet ships will be upgraded in regards to account unlocks. I can definitely understand how this might be confusing. Allow me to explain.
Let's say you purchase the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can claim this ship on any of your federation characters. Now, let's say you want to get the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. Since you already own the non-fleet variant, this will cost 1 Fleet Module (500 Zen). Now you have both the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit and the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can then choose to upgrade either or both of these ships to T5-U by paying a Zen cost. For the sake of this example, let's say you upgrade both.
Now, what this means on an Starfleet alt is:
1) You can claim the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit for free from the Zen store.
2) You need to be in a fleet that has unlocked the appropriate shipyard level for the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You'll also need to pay the fleet credit cost and purchase a Fleet Module in order to obtain this starship.
3) You can upgrade your Exploration Cruiser Retrofit to T5-U for free since you purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
4) If you purchase the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit on another character for the costs mentioned in 2) above, then you can upgrade this ship to T5-U for free since you've already purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
I think 500 zen is reasonable for fleet ships or ships worth 2500 zen and perhaps 1000 zen for ships worth 2000 zen. The benefits should include Scaling HP, Additional console slot, 4 mastery levels, AND an additional BO ability. The Starship trait and specialized BO seats should be t6 exclusive imho.
Would really like to see the Mirror ships eligible for upgrade. Maybe resources dictated that this has to happen later, but I hate to see ships that provide so many options to players get left two steps behind.
Well I don't think that's going to happen. They've also left out those original ships you get for hitting 40 and all the retrofits that cost FC. It seems like that there is going to be some planned obsolescence with those ships that are already designed to be a step back from the top level.
That said I doubt that there's going to be that much that you can't reasonably do with mirror ships in DR. I've taken the Aquarius (non-fleet) through Elite Hive and Elite Breach without too much trouble and that's already two steps back from a comptetent ship. If you have something which is now perfectly reasonable you can probably take it through the worst the expansion has to offer with only minimal pain (especially if you upgrade the equipment to Mk XIV).
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Their will only be like 2 KDF (raptor & battlecruiser), 2 Rom, 3 Fed and probably a new lockbox ships that will be T6.
UGC#166...Geko mentioned more than the initial 7 ships mentioned at STLV. Folks are figuring somewhere between the initial 7 number and the dozen number mentioned in that podcast. The T6 blog mentioning new mechanics with new ship types has led to many going with perhaps 10 ships...the 7 you mentioned and then one of the new ship type for each faction sort of thing. It's all speculation in the end.
Besides, we're looking at other issues as far as the KDF go - old issues that are going to persist.
There's going to be...
T5-U10
T5-U11
T6-10
...without certain Fleet variants for some of the KDF ships (Guramba), then those T5-U10s will be even further behind the T5-U11s than the T5-9s were behind the T5-10s.
You expected to get a lot of the ships to be upgraded for FREE? Okay.. you are free to continue to think that way.
and why the hell not? that is how you got from lvl 40 to 50.. for free. and now in addition to your time and labor in grinding to increase your ship stats, you also have to pay.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Standard is what *the average player* can get their hands on, not "the top 10% of the game". Sure Fleet Elite is awesome, but can most people use them? You tell me.
Considering 99% of the things in the game can be gotten for free, yes most people can use them.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
how do you think i feel with my beloved Vo'Quv being left in the dust, unless i want to pony up for a fleet version (which i'm not sure my fleet has it unlocked yet) and then upgrade it with zen
same for my lone BoP captain, she's been sitting at the edge of the party in her tiny, tin-hulled Bird of Prey hoping for some update to make them halfway viable (the flanking bonus was okay, but it's really situational, as all but the slowest enemies turn too fast)
Compared to the Recluse , Jem or Xindi the Voq has been left in the dust a while ago.
I really like the Advanced Escort too. You will be able to upgrade both the Multi-Vector Advanced Escort and the Fleet Advanced Escort to T5-U for a to be determined cost.
Fleet ships are an improvements upon Tier 5 ships. T5-U Fleet ships are improved versions of T5-U ships. But, yes you will need to pay to upgrade each ship from T5 to T5-U. My advice would be to only upgrade the ship you plan on using.
Also, I wanted to clarify how fleet ships will be upgraded in regards to account unlocks. I can definitely understand how this might be confusing. Allow me to explain.
Let's say you purchase the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can claim this ship on any of your federation characters. Now, let's say you want to get the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. Since you already own the non-fleet variant, this will cost 1 Fleet Module (500 Zen). Now you have both the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit and the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can then choose to upgrade either or both of these ships to T5-U by paying a Zen cost. For the sake of this example, let's say you upgrade both.
Now, what this means on an Starfleet alt is:
1) You can claim the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit for free from the Zen store.
2) You need to be in a fleet that has unlocked the appropriate shipyard level for the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You'll also need to pay the fleet credit cost and purchase a Fleet Module in order to obtain this starship.
3) You can upgrade your Exploration Cruiser Retrofit to T5-U for free since you purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
4) If you purchase the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit on another character for the costs mentioned in 2) above, then you can upgrade this ship to T5-U for free since you've already purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
I hope that answers some questions.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
This does not soothe me. I fly a regular Advanced Escort and now that'll get pwned repeatedly by the new content, as if it didn't get enough pwnings from the Borg.
Although, this actually makes me more desperate to get a lifetime sub, if only for the upgraded Chimera.
For best results, read my posts in the voice of Sheogorath, Daedric Prince of Madness.
*busts down your door while wearing a Starfleet uniform* Time to boldy go, losers.
#this is how you SHOULD collect your crew from shore leave
and why the hell not? that's how you got from 40 to 50.. your ship scaling for free as you increased levels.. now they are putting a charge on top of your labor
You think I'm upset about that? News flash: not upset at all. I suspected that a cost would be needed for the upgrade. Luckily for me, I use the Vet ships and I don't have to worry about paying for those to be upgraded.
Sad we won't be getting upgrades for the mirror ships, I use a few of these. I'll have to find alternatives.
If $10 is 1000 Zen, that's too much per ship. I'm not in the US so don't know exactly what the US $ per Zen scale is. I'd be okay at the other end of the scale, 500 Zen, same as a fleet module, seems fair.
Will there be free T6 ships for folks? Something basic we can grind out the traits on? Or will we be levelling in our existing ships, or paid upgrades?
A lot of threads have been merged as they are discussions about the Tier 5 starship upgrades.
Lets keep it all in one thread folks.
(PS - sorry to anyone that was reading this thread while I was merging...probably didn't make it any easier hehe.)
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
I think people are really blowing this out of proportion. I should have had a heart attack and been done playing years ago if every time the game is expanded I got upset because new stuff came out and made my old stuff sub-par. I would have quit already.
well i did quit STO after i had enough of these business practices around here... and it was very good for my blood pressure ;P
I have NEVER played a game that asked me to spend MONEY to upgrade a PREMIUM Item after i bought it, except for STO.
I'm 99% sure not even EA has done something like this.
I don't care if things are obsolete or not. I will be buying a Tier 6 ship, no question about that. But what is driving me away from the game is the fact that I've payed for ship, and now have to not only pay once for a fleet version upgrade, but once again for it to be competitive, even though other ships (lockbox, lobi, and special promotion ones) that are on-par with fleet ships are being upgraded for free, but things that have been payed for before in an upgrade, need to be payed for again, to be "competitive."
lockbox ships most likely cost $100 or more to obtain in the first place. Those people who have lockbox ships have already paid for upgrades to season 20.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
3) You can upgrade your Exploration Cruiser Retrofit to T5-U for free since you purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
4) If you purchase the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit on another character for the costs mentioned in 2) above, then you can upgrade this ship to T5-U for free since you've already purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
Sweet. I can imagine one, rather large, Romulan ship for which this is going to be very nice to have. :P
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Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Aren't inferior? they will lack the starship Trait, 13th BO ability and the Specialized BO seats, an once you release t6 lockbox ships they will be obsolete.
Lockbox ships has always been 10 time more expensive than any other ship in the game, and they has always been the "end game" ships, now there is going to be better ships (t6, and lockbox t6)
4) If you purchase the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit on another character for the costs mentioned in 2) above, then you can upgrade this ship to T5-U for free since you've already purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
In other words, Fleet ships are still per-character purchases, but once you've upgraded a fleet ship, any alts that also have (or will later get) that same fleet ship get the upgrade to T5-U for free.
Cool dude. Thanks for not making it per-character.
And I'd like to thank you and Geko for participating in the thread thus far.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
It looks like the 5th level is just unlocking a special, T6 ship-specific trait to go in one of your four ship trait slots.
Geko says there will be other ways to get (different) ship traits, so I can live with not having this. There are plenty of traits in the game now that I don't have unlocked, and it doesn't bother me.
Reading that and then rereading the blog, thank you, you're right, feel better about that aspect.
I think a per-ship unlock is far too extreme, especially considering the ship list has grown geometrically lately, and that not long ago a free ship slot or two was handed out by Cryptic, and that people like to have a collection of a few ships to suit them -- especially with the ship profiles and on-the-fly switching which was enabled.
Cryptic: You know we use multiple ships, you encourage us to use multiple ships, then you TAX us per ship! Come, come. That's unseemly.
Might I suggest a PER-CHARACTER unlock? A 1-time use, like a costume slot unlock or a ship slot unlock, which enables T5-U on any available ship which this character may choose in the future?
Honestly? Let's face it. You KNOW how many toons some people have. You know for a fact the kind of player base you have, the perfectionists, the collectors, the RPers, etc. You'll probably make more money for a $5/500z per-char unlock than you would charging $10/1000z per ship.
Your method will simply drive people away. We'll simply min/max our current ships as best we can, and be more resentful for your actions in the long run. Don't do this.
While that could be nice, consider that some of the players have over 40 characters. There's a mathematical line there where the number of characters on the account exceeds the number of different ships that character plays, so your idea has the potential to be just as brutally expensive.
An account wide unlock is a system that is already in place for individual ships, rather than across an entire type of ship.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Comments
Meaning the extra BOFF ability is the specialized T6 power, and that's why the T5Us don't get that.
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Yes, they have yet to reveal what the Tier 6 is all about. But they made it blatantly clear that our upgraded Tier 5s will not benefit from everything Tier 6 ships are.
To me, they could've easily made the new ships BOFFs be a gimmick, specific to those ships. But instead, Cryptic gives another massive middle finger to Star Trek fans who love certain canonical ships and telling them if they want to fly their canonical ships and enjoy the new content (talking about Traits), you have to pay up!
And I'm betting Tier 6 ships will be cheaper than buying the Fleet Tier 5Us.
Joined January 2009
just wondering from the above quote about weapon slots as it seems like Fleet ships and ships like the Oddy, Scimitar, Steamrunner, Bortasqu etc already have 10 console slots so do T6 ships have extra weapon slots or are the Trait and boff slot the only increase they get on store T5?
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
same for my lone BoP captain, she's been sitting at the edge of the party in her tiny, tin-hulled Bird of Prey hoping for some update to make them halfway viable, the flanking bonus was okay, but it's really situational (as all but the slowest enemies turn too fast) and when i uncloak it's pop the BoP day for enemies, my shields and hull are gone quick (thank Kahless she's an engineer, keep the ship alive til recloak)
EDIT: seems the thread i was posting in got merged with another...dammit
I'm not asking if the ship will level up, I'm asking if we'll get a free ship when we level up, like we do now up to level 40.
and why the hell not? that's how you got from 40 to 50.. your ship scaling for free as you increased levels.. now they are putting a charge on top of your labor
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
I really like the Advanced Escort too. You will be able to upgrade both the Multi-Vector Advanced Escort and the Fleet Advanced Escort to T5-U for a to be determined cost.
Fleet ships are an improvements upon Tier 5 ships. T5-U Fleet ships are improved versions of T5-U ships. But, yes you will need to pay to upgrade each ship from T5 to T5-U. My advice would be to only upgrade the ship you plan on using.
Also, I wanted to clarify how fleet ships will be upgraded in regards to account unlocks. I can definitely understand how this might be confusing. Allow me to explain.
Let's say you purchase the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can claim this ship on any of your federation characters. Now, let's say you want to get the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. Since you already own the non-fleet variant, this will cost 1 Fleet Module (500 Zen). Now you have both the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit and the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You can then choose to upgrade either or both of these ships to T5-U by paying a Zen cost. For the sake of this example, let's say you upgrade both.
Now, what this means on an Starfleet alt is:
1) You can claim the Exploration Cruiser Retrofit for free from the Zen store.
2) You need to be in a fleet that has unlocked the appropriate shipyard level for the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit. You'll also need to pay the fleet credit cost and purchase a Fleet Module in order to obtain this starship.
3) You can upgrade your Exploration Cruiser Retrofit to T5-U for free since you purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
4) If you purchase the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Retrofit on another character for the costs mentioned in 2) above, then you can upgrade this ship to T5-U for free since you've already purchased the upgrade for this particular ship.
I hope that answers some questions.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Well I don't think that's going to happen. They've also left out those original ships you get for hitting 40 and all the retrofits that cost FC. It seems like that there is going to be some planned obsolescence with those ships that are already designed to be a step back from the top level.
That said I doubt that there's going to be that much that you can't reasonably do with mirror ships in DR. I've taken the Aquarius (non-fleet) through Elite Hive and Elite Breach without too much trouble and that's already two steps back from a comptetent ship. If you have something which is now perfectly reasonable you can probably take it through the worst the expansion has to offer with only minimal pain (especially if you upgrade the equipment to Mk XIV).
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
UGC#166...Geko mentioned more than the initial 7 ships mentioned at STLV. Folks are figuring somewhere between the initial 7 number and the dozen number mentioned in that podcast. The T6 blog mentioning new mechanics with new ship types has led to many going with perhaps 10 ships...the 7 you mentioned and then one of the new ship type for each faction sort of thing. It's all speculation in the end.
Besides, we're looking at other issues as far as the KDF go - old issues that are going to persist.
There's going to be...
T5-U10
T5-U11
T6-10
...without certain Fleet variants for some of the KDF ships (Guramba), then those T5-U10s will be even further behind the T5-U11s than the T5-9s were behind the T5-10s.
Other major reasons why T5-U is worthless:
An addition BO ability slot
An I4$73^&$&#^ BOFF seat (and all the ability slots that entails)
and why the hell not? that is how you got from lvl 40 to 50.. for free. and now in addition to your time and labor in grinding to increase your ship stats, you also have to pay.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Considering 99% of the things in the game can be gotten for free, yes most people can use them.
Joined January 2009
Compared to the Recluse , Jem or Xindi the Voq has been left in the dust a while ago.
Happily flew it for 3 years.
Loved those ever buggy BOP's though.
What can I say, I'm an optimist?
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
This does not soothe me. I fly a regular Advanced Escort and now that'll get pwned repeatedly by the new content, as if it didn't get enough pwnings from the Borg.
Although, this actually makes me more desperate to get a lifetime sub, if only for the upgraded Chimera.
*busts down your door while wearing a Starfleet uniform*
Time to boldy go, losers.
#this is how you SHOULD collect your crew from shore leave
Sad we won't be getting upgrades for the mirror ships, I use a few of these. I'll have to find alternatives.
If $10 is 1000 Zen, that's too much per ship. I'm not in the US so don't know exactly what the US $ per Zen scale is. I'd be okay at the other end of the scale, 500 Zen, same as a fleet module, seems fair.
Will there be free T6 ships for folks? Something basic we can grind out the traits on? Or will we be levelling in our existing ships, or paid upgrades?
Lets keep it all in one thread folks.
(PS - sorry to anyone that was reading this thread while I was merging...probably didn't make it any easier hehe.)
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
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Aye but those aren't KDF designs, i like my KDF carrier
and Fleet VoQuv being upgradeable should keep it viable a bit longer
>.> maybe Cryptic will release a new KDF carrier at T6, something i can love as much as the VoQuv
I plan on using my Mirror Vo'Qu...oh.
well i did quit STO after i had enough of these business practices around here... and it was very good for my blood pressure ;P
I have NEVER played a game that asked me to spend MONEY to upgrade a PREMIUM Item after i bought it, except for STO.
I'm 99% sure not even EA has done something like this.
lockbox ships most likely cost $100 or more to obtain in the first place. Those people who have lockbox ships have already paid for upgrades to season 20.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Sweet. I can imagine one, rather large, Romulan ship for which this is going to be very nice to have. :P
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Aren't inferior? they will lack the starship Trait, 13th BO ability and the Specialized BO seats, an once you release t6 lockbox ships they will be obsolete.
Lockbox ships has always been 10 time more expensive than any other ship in the game, and they has always been the "end game" ships, now there is going to be better ships (t6, and lockbox t6)
Nice scam
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
In other words, Fleet ships are still per-character purchases, but once you've upgraded a fleet ship, any alts that also have (or will later get) that same fleet ship get the upgrade to T5-U for free.
Cool dude. Thanks for not making it per-character.
And I'd like to thank you and Geko for participating in the thread thus far.
Joined January 2009
I don't have one nor do I want one. Not playing a Dominion character. Reading that and then rereading the blog, thank you, you're right, feel better about that aspect.
While that could be nice, consider that some of the players have over 40 characters. There's a mathematical line there where the number of characters on the account exceeds the number of different ships that character plays, so your idea has the potential to be just as brutally expensive.
An account wide unlock is a system that is already in place for individual ships, rather than across an entire type of ship.