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Welcome to the 1 year crafting grind. Let them know what we think.

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  • judasjungjudasjung Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    olivia211 wrote: »
    Have we had any official word on this from Cryptic / PWE? It would be nice if someone would respond to this.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ifmRgQX82O4
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    walshicus wrote: »
    There are virtually NO things in this game that can't be bought with in-game currency.

    Outside of all the things requiring real currency...
  • antovarasantovaras Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    A quick reminder to everyone,


    Except a lot of people just don't care anymore; can't say I blame them being honest.
    A world to defend
    A city to protect
    innocents to save
    "Why?" They ask "they hate you"
    We're heroes it's what we do.
    *patiently waiting on Paragon City*
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Outside of all the things requiring real currency...
    Which is presently limited to LTS, and Vet perks.

    anything that you pay for with Zen can be obtained via grinding for dil...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Wish people would get a clue....seriously. Just because they ground Dil for ZEN doesn't mean that the ZEN wasn't bought in the first place. Thus...real currency was involved.

    Nothing from a Lock Box can exist in the game unless actual money was spent at some point. Ships, DOFFs, Weapons, etc. Lobi Store items...they've removed the ability to get the free Lobi from various events - it's only available from Lock Boxes. So you're back to actual money.

    The ZEN does not just magically appear so folks can trade their Dil for it... /facepalm

    Cryptic is a business...they need to make money. They're making money. It's a good thing. Otherwise the game wouldn't be here.
  • sophus84atsophus84at Member Posts: 404 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Oh great the Topic / Thread was moved, why not close it directly.. since moving no answers anymore.... hence why, because its not on the front page now. great way of dealing with critics...

    Cryptic this is a thing more than the usual suspects are upset with this change.. and you do nothing more than move the damned topic to "feedback" where it never will be seen by anyone again.??
    "Mei Borg is net deppat".....

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    sophus84at wrote: »
    Oh great the Topic / Thread was moved, why not close it directly.. since moving no answers anymore.... hence why, because its not on the front page now. great way of dealing with critics...

    Cryptic this is a thing more than the usual suspects are upset with this change.. and you do nothing more than move the damned topic to "feedback" where it never will be seen by anyone again.??

    All the cool kids sit on Today's Post rather than on General Discussion...

    Here, I shall help you Learn2Forum:

    Today's Post - http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/search.php?do=getdaily
    Dev Tracker - http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/search.php?searchid=100572281

    The first can be refreshed to see what threads folks are posting to - this way you can meet any posting addictions one may have. There's no need to sit in a single area of the forums hitting refresh to see if anything is new when you can see everything that is new instead!

    The second lets you see what any of the Cryptic/PWE folks have said - some call it DevStalker...as a dev will post and all the folks will come out of the woodwork to comment in turn.

    So guess what...if something gets placed where it should be...there's no trouble following it.
  • tarastheslayertarastheslayer Member Posts: 1,541 Bug Hunter
    edited July 2014
    I use Today's Post, and I'm pretty sure a lot of other people do as well.
    Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
    I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    You mean the things that require ZEN?

    Guess what?

    You don't even have to pay for Zen if you don't mind grinding Dilithium... Or have you forgotten that the Dilithium exchange works both ways?

    There is literally NOTHING in this game that REQUIRES us to spend ANY real world money. If we do it is because we WANT to, not because we NEED to.

    Someone paid cold hard cash for the Zen. That is the point. As for the grinding dilithium to trade for zen I think we should all take a moment to thank the whales who are subsidizing our gaming costs by spending their cash so we don't have to.

    Why is that such a difficult concept for people to understand? If no one spent money on STO you would not be able to trade your dilithium for that zen.
  • emperordeslokemperordeslok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    This change is absurd, being able to complete 1 school per month was ... tolerable after having all crafting capacity stripped, I would not have complained about a reduction to 3 of the same project simultaneously as per what neverwinter provides, or if the xp/project was increased up to(preferably higher than) the value these 20 hour projects were originally on tribble with, as is this is insane
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    This change is absurd, being able to complete 1 school per month was ... tolerable after having all crafting capacity stripped, I would not have complained about a reduction to 3 of the same project simultaneously as per what neverwinter provides, or if the xp/project was increased up to(preferably higher than) the value these 20 hour projects were originally on tribble with, as is this is insane

    Heh, it wasn't even a case of completing a school in a month...it was getting to L15 in 35 days. L15 to L20 would take take 2.3 times as long as getting to L15 did. It was completing a school in 105 days as opposed to ~345 days.
  • canis36canis36 Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I was going to keep going and just slowly keep it up on the characters I'd been using, but both yesterday and today my enthusiasm is just...not there any more. Before the new patch I was excited about crafting and the potential and waiting a month or so to get to level 15 and the stuff I really wanted was fine and doable.

    Now? The anger is wearing off and I'm finding myself becoming apathetic. I doubt I'll even bother with slotting new projects in another week or so. Might start selling the reward packs from STFs on the exchange for some extra EC, but beyond that? I'm rapidly reaching the point where I just don't care about crafting anymore. I'll enjoy the new Aegis set on the characters that had the old one, but that's probably going to be the extent of my interaction with crafting after a week or so unless they undo the "bug" fix they implemented yesterday.
  • emperordeslokemperordeslok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Heh, it wasn't even a case of completing a school in a month...it was getting to L15 in 35 days. L15 to L20 would take take 2.3 times as long as getting to L15 did. It was completing a school in 105 days as opposed to ~345 days.

    that's what I get for not calculating it out, now you've made me more sad I'd be happy with 15 in 35 days just to be able to make things like a TR-116B and the omni-array's but as it stands I won't be able to make either for almost a year.
  • abcde123123abcde123123 Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Dunno...


    Initially I was gonna power grind crafting on most of toons to get access to the crafting traits, and perpahs have 1 master crafter for each school just for the sake of it. And, hey, 20 odd days per crafting school seemed reasonable enuff.

    But even at the max level opportunity cost vs gear you get and time you spend doing it, really makes it not worth while bothering at all.

    But since now it's gonna take 100+ moving sliders to maxx out the school to be able to gamble dil and purple mats for a chance at useful item kinda really makes it not worth bothering at all.

    Which brings the topic of purple mats/components. I opened a dozen or so component boxes 6 from ise 6 from exchange, never got a single purple thingy out of it. Now I know there's a cryptic consipiracy aimed at my account, so I never get good stuffs from any kind of gamble boxes. But the question remains: why on earth component boxes do not reward at least 1 purple component?
  • azntrigboiazntrigboi Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Dunno...


    Initially I was gonna power grind crafting on most of toons to get access to the crafting traits, and perpahs have 1 master crafter for each school just for the sake of it. And, hey, 20 odd days per crafting school seemed reasonable enuff.

    But even at the max level opportunity cost vs gear you get and time you spend doing it, really makes it not worth while bothering at all.

    But since now it's gonna take 100+ moving sliders to maxx out the school to be able to gamble dil and purple mats for a chance at useful item kinda really makes it not worth bothering at all.

    Which brings the topic of purple mats/components. I opened a dozen or so component boxes 6 from ise 6 from exchange, never got a single purple thingy out of it. Now I know there's a cryptic consipiracy aimed at my account, so I never get good stuffs from any kind of gamble boxes. But the question remains: why on earth component boxes do not reward at least 1 purple component?

    Because Isolinear Chips are supposed to be expensive? *shrugs* I honestly don't know. It already costs a good amount of dil just to craft one.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Decided that today I'd actually try to craft some stuff instead of doing the Research projects.

    To go through and slot three one hour projects on nine toons...feels like it is going to take an hour...and...I'm feeling like I'm just going to go back to the Research projects even if it takes 105 days at this rate.
  • rwscissorsrwscissors Member Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Decided that today I'd actually try to craft some stuff instead of doing the Research projects.

    To go through and slot three one hour projects on nine toons...feels like it is going to take an hour...and...I'm feeling like I'm just going to go back to the Research projects even if it takes 105 days at this rate.

    Yeah, I know. I felt the same way since I first tried it on Tribble. It won't be so bad if they ever get it in so you can make components by the stack, doing one at a time is just brutal.
  • azntrigboiazntrigboi Member Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    rwscissors wrote: »
    Yeah, I know. I felt the same way since I first tried it on Tribble. It won't be so bad if they ever get it in so you can make components by the stack, doing one at a time is just brutal.

    +1 Stacks would make crafting a lot less painful.
  • betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    whelp, my predictions where true, they shot the Exchange pricing in the head, pulled another gothca setup to derp for, only to get one item at a mere +1 (from -10 "in comparison to the current content") and it will take for ever for the "illusion" of new content for one to make to become a reality, i laugh at all who spent their soul to get 15 right away.
    HAHAHAHAHA!!!! :D
    fools! :cool:

    everything i said came true and more, i hate being right when the S****** smells so wrong
    eywdK7c.jpg
  • abcde123123abcde123123 Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    azntrigboi wrote: »
    Because Isolinear Chips are supposed to be expensive? *shrugs* I honestly don't know. It already costs a good amount of dil just to craft one.

    Well we're still in the "early adopters" phase of development, but frankly im really getting kinda sick of "grind hundred days so you get a chance to gamble more" model.
  • betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Well we're still in the "early adopters" phase of development, but frankly im really getting kinda sick of "grind hundred days so you get a chance to gamble more" model.

    ^^ this is an "outstanding citizen" ladies and gentlemen, give this person a medal, slot machines are for casinos, not online games, wait, that reminds ma of lock boxes lol :P

    pseudo slot machines
    eywdK7c.jpg
  • lucho80lucho80 Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Cryptic's evil plan to have us grinding all 7/8 (if they add kits) schools up until May 2016.

    Que viva la GRIND, pu
  • betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    they don't even have "blacksmithing" for melee in here atm ... lol
    it's fun making lesser content ... that all 12 of my lvl 50s can't use ... BUUUUUUUT i "guess" since the market is headshot, and all the Very Rare content is the new white and are worthless now, i guess, it is just a waiting game. like, a very long one ...

    Like spend a god awful amount of time making vendor trash and a few weeks from now, you can make something that might work out and be "cool", i am not throwing them a cent, it only displays their intent while everyone else gets an inconvenience fee in the form of time

    give the R&D system a booo! if you agree and are not interested in the fee jumping to 15 stupidity to support "automation addiction" gaming :rolleyes:

    whelmp! who's up for some tank games ... lol
    eywdK7c.jpg
  • daqheghdaqhegh Member Posts: 1,490 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Like I said, "There is literally NOTHING in this game that REQUIRES us to spend ANY real world money. If we do it is because we WANT to, not because we NEED to."

    While this is technically true, you're missing an important point.

    Cash grab gimmicks are first and foremost only in the game company's favor. The idea is usually to slow a process to a near standstill using in-game methods of advancement. The alternative they offer is the "buy" DIL option so you can spend that DIL speeding up the process. They get away with it by saying you can do it using in-game means, but not for (literally) 500 times the time and effort. This concept has another name: Pay to Win. The best items don't always have to be purchase exclusive for the title to fit. Pay to Win is a system of forcing supposedly "optional" extras into the game that are insanely high priced by game currency standards.

    Also, with the "optional" content, there is another point you missed.

    If one were to skip the traditional grind that this game has become, there would be very little to do. It would essentially be PVE, PvP, FE reruns, and maybe some RP. The best gear in game is currently locked into the Fleet/Spire/etc. system, but there's a grind to get it. Next best is the Rep system, but that's a grind, too. There's lockboxes, which can be opened with DIL/Zen/EC that one had to grind HARD for. So the solution to gameplay in general becomes Pay to Win. Buy Zen, convert it into DIL, and finish everything quicker (or in the case of Fleets and Rep it literally costs DIL just to start the projects that give gear or progress the fleet). Or just convert the Zen into whatever currency suits your needs.

    Bottom line is, there are fewer and fewer portions of this game that have not been monetized. I suspect that by the time STO finally dies (and it eventually will) there will be nothing playable left. Everything will have a grind, or a DIL tax, or some other monetary fee attached to it. This issue at hand isn't just the blatant disregard for the players and obvious cash grabbing tactics at work. It implies many horrible things down the line that will eventually really require money. As it is, we can't have end game gear appropriate to our level until MONTHS after we actually reach max level. The day will come when that gear is never actually attainable. And by the way things are going that day will be coming sooner rather than later. Think about it.
    My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
  • lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited July 2014
    "No. I will not participate."
    There we are, problem solved.
  • kajarflesterkajarflester Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    This is a terrible mess In was quite excited at the thought of "crafting" as in designing a desired device (stats bonuses type etc) and going out and getting supplies to create it.

    This is horrible. Instead its run Fleet missions for supplies and gamble them against a time gate that you have no control over. The results are randomized allowing no real control over the outcome short of the base type.

    I am quite disappointed in Cryptic. Along with the removal of exploration missions which were nothing special but definitely had potential. This is by far the worst "addition" to the game since they removed the random set gear drops from stf's.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    It's kind of odd, sitting there and doing some of the calculations.

    Okay, so we all know that L15 can now take up to 105 cycles with the 20hr Research Project. Would likely be less because of the odd 7000 instead of 6000 XP you'll get here and there that will become more prevalent - so that would actually be trimmed down a bit.

    If I spend an hour a day doing 3x 600 projects, so I'm looking at 7800 a day instead of 6000...I can trim about 24 days off of that - dropping it down to up to 81 days instead of up to 105.

    To trim those 24 days looking at a Beam guy would require up to...

    3x Component - Focusing Lens (Common)
    6x Component - Emitter Module (Uncommon)
    9x Component - EPS Conduit (Uncommon)

    ...per day for 81 days...

    Each Focusing Lens would require up to 3x Trionium Gas (Common) and 2x Hydrazine Gas (Common).
    Each Emitter Module would require up to 2x Tritanium (Uncommon) and 3x Verteron Particle (Uncommon).
    Each EPS Conduit would require up to 3x Hexaflourine Gas (Uncommon), 2x Thoron Particle (Uncommon), and 3x Tritanium (Uncommon).

    ...so work that out for each day...

    6x Hydrazine Gas (Common)
    9x Trionum Gas (Common)
    18x Verteron Particle (Uncommon)
    18x Thoron Particle (Uncommon)
    27x Hexaflourine Gas (Uncommon)
    39x Tritanium (Uncommon)

    ...and then run that through 81 days...

    486x Hydrazine Gas (Common)
    729x Trionium Gas (Common)
    1458x Verteron Particle (Uncommon)
    1458x Thoron Particle (Uncommon)
    2187x Hexaflourine Gas (Uncommon)
    3159x Tritanium (Uncommon)

    Which will allow you to create 243 Mk VI Arrays...which you can trash for 729k to 1.5m or so EC.

    Based on the current lowest single item cost (not necessarily the lowest per item cost)...

    486x Hydrazine Gas (Common) is worth 3,013,200 EC.
    729x Trionium Gas (Common) is worth 4,585,410 EC.
    1458x Verteron Particle (Uncommon) is worth 10,933,542 EC.
    1458x Thoron Particle (Uncommon) is worth 10,935,000 EC.
    2187x Hexaflourine Gas (Uncommon) is worth 9,622,800 EC.
    3159x Tritanium (Uncommon) is worth 25,272,000 EC.

    That's 64,361,952 EC of materials...for 24 days saved and 729k to 1.5m in vendor trash.

    So then, say in my case, you look at doing this on 9 toons...

    579,257,568 EC...to shave 24 days a toon and get 6.6m to 13.5m in vendor trash total.

    Course, that's just for one school for each toon...the cost would be more to try to shave some time off the other schools.

    Of course, as noted - those are "up to" costs. You might get crits here and there, reducing the amount of mats required because you get 3x components instead of 1x...etc, etc, etc. Going to depend on how your luck goes, right? Mine sucks.

    So yeah, I think I'm just going to roll with doing the Research Projects for however long that ends up taking...and...yeah, take it from there. Something where we were looking at around 35 days before we could craft anything of potential purpose now being out at 105 days or so...

    ...but yeah, I'm not wasting the time nor resources on vendor trash to save so little time overall. I can wait 24 days.
  • onenonlydrockonenonlydrock Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I'd have to join in on this revolt by saying that one year of grinding for ANYTHING, much less a crafting school, is incredibly unreasonable and must be changed immediately.

    I'm willing to put up with three months to complete all schools. No further.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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