Make no mistake, crafting is ONLY for big dil spenders.
That's evidently not true, since daqhegh (and others I'm sure) hasn't put any dilithium into the system and is using it to make money selling components.
Ok no fair Cryptic employee, making a fake account to bump the other side. By the way your about the only one.
You have been really unlucky with the crits, I've critted 3 times,
You want some math's then fine
650000/6000=108.3 round up to 109, assuming no crits.
Slot 1 School 1 - 109 day to 15 - School 6 day 218 to 15
Slot 2 unlock on day 2, School 2 day 110 to 15, School 7 day 219 to 15
Slot 3 unlock on day 5, School 3 day 114 to 15
Slot 4 unlock on day 13, School 4 day 122 to 15
Slot 5 unlock on day 109 School 5 day 218 to 15
Somebody else has already done the calculation for the day when each slot gets unlocked earlier in this thread.
That's why I suggested that the exp reward should be increased to 10k, then it will come down to 65 days to lvl 15 one school for people to lazy to craft. Which is a bit more reasonable.
I want cryptic to know that this thread doesn't represent the entire STO community. This thread boils down to one thing. These players are impatient and don't want to wait for the ability to create max level gear so they can start overcharging for it on the exchange. Nor do they want to spend dilithium to make it go faster. Instant gratification is all they desire.
For me, the change is a good ones and one that common sense says was supposed to be there in the first place. And when you think about it, the timeframe for completion is roughly equivalent to what it takes the average player (one who has a job and a life outside this game) to complete the story from beginning to end and max out their character. I don't see this as a grind, I see it as a new way to get the items I want at each level of a new character without having to spend ec at the mob bank that is the exchange, or hoping to get it from enemy drops. So now, not only do I have a real reason to start up a brand new character, I have a reason to do stfs again on my old one.
Plz share what you are smoking...You do realize that you can level a player from 1-50 in a weekend if it is double XP. Without double xp, maybe a week and that is maybe playing 1-3 hours a day. Next with the sponsorship tokens, you can do Rep in 3 weeks and 625 Marks. That is 4 weeks and you are full rep and max level. Now it may take another month to do enough to gear your alt but it doesn't certainly take 11 months even 6 months.
I want cryptic to know that this thread doesn't represent the entire STO community. This thread boils down to one thing. These players are impatient and don't want to wait for the ability to create max level gear so they can start overcharging for it on the exchange. Nor do they want to spend dilithium to make it go faster. Instant gratification is all they desire.
For me, the change is a good ones and one that common sense says was supposed to be there in the first place. And when you think about it, the timeframe for completion is roughly equivalent to what it takes the average player (one who has a job and a life outside this game) to complete the story from beginning to end and max out their character. I don't see this as a grind, I see it as a new way to get the items I want at each level of a new character without having to spend ec at the mob bank that is the exchange, or hoping to get it from enemy drops. So now, not only do I have a real reason to start up a brand new character, I have a reason to do stfs again on my old one.
The quoted post operates on the assumption that one of the devs had not specifically said that the time to complete one school was to be comparable to completing a single rep to 5. However, a Dev did in fact say that, which indicates that everything was working as intended before the Nerf.
Oh he knows, he knows. He's one the people doing it right now!!
I was thinking about that. The only people I could see supporting this are either very ignorant, or they want to keep their hold on the market for as long as possible.
The tone of some of the posts in this thread are starting to edge into Flaming/Trolling territory.
Please don't.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The tone of some of the posts in this thread are starting to edge into Flaming/Trolling territory.
Please don't.
Constructive feedback is ignored.
Flaming/Trolling feedback at least gets a response.
It's along the lines of the child that acts out, not saying that we're children or anything of the sort - simply making the analogy of the child that acts out because it's the only time the child gets any attention. The child gets attention from their negative behavior, they attach the value to themselves that comes along with that.
So the only way to feel that one matters to Cryptic is to get warnings, violations, temporary bans, and permanent bans from going off the deep end...cause otherwise, one is just ignored. The only attention comes from behaving badly...
The tone of some of the posts in this thread are starting to edge into Flaming/Trolling territory.
Please don't.
The previous poster does have a point. It's been a couple of days and no word from them on if they would like to work this out with the player base. You can only ignore people so long till tempers start to flare. I understand there are rules here.
Still, if you don't "answer your phone" for 2 days while you are a business, people start to wonder if you even care.
No, I am not who you think I am. I am someone different. I am instead a banana.
Yeah, wasn't a case of condoning it...trying to rationalize it...just looking at a possible reason behind some of it. Heh, I may have thought about going with a Guy Fawkes avatar...but haven't gotten there yet.
I was actually referring more to the player vs player byplay.
If you're operating a nightclub, patrons fighting each other in the foyer is not good for business. Similar principle here.
And this is the last time you will ever hear me identify with a bouncer.
I would submit that getting yourself banned does not get you any Dev attention. What you get, essentially, is attention from a volunteer with no direct line to the Devs and a CM who doesn't have the time to deal with you.
But yeah, a little ranting and raving here and there... s'all fine if you don't cross the line.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Nope, nope, nope...too late. A certain club on a certain map is going to end up with a bouncer named bluegeek.
Okay... just make sure he's pale, unathletic-looking, and completely non-threatening. And blue.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The previous poster does have a point. It's been a couple of days and no word from them on if they would like to work this out with the player base. You can only ignore people so long till tempers start to flare. I understand there are rules here.
Still, if you don't "answer your phone" for 2 days while you are a business, people start to wonder if you even care.
There's nothing to work out. We don't own the game and therefore have NO say in how it goes.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
There's nothing to work out. We don't own the game and therefore have NO say in how it goes.
Yet most companies understand that it's in their best interest to communicate with their customers.
Cryptic made some specific statements -like each school ~= one reputation-, which are now contradicted by the patch. To explain the change and the new goals should be a matter of course. If you explain yourself, people might not agree, but they understand. Simply ignore them and they will come to their own conclusions - which will certainly not be favourable for the company.
There are not many areas of business with better connected customers than in online/gaming. Excellent communication is under such conditions mandatory, because you don't ignore and offend a single isolated customer, but a part of your overall community, dealing damage that after some point might not ever be undone again.
I was actually referring more to the player vs player byplay.
If you're operating a nightclub, patrons fighting each other in the foyer is not good for business. Similar principle here.
Keeping with your analogy, the reason the patrons are infighting is that they feel ignored by the establishment employees.
We've heard nothing behind the reasoning of this change. There's been no discourse over a compromise, many of which have been offered up in this very thread.
Any response at all, no matter how brief, is better than being ignored.
I want cryptic to know that this thread doesn't represent the entire STO community. This thread boils down to one thing. These players are impatient and don't want to wait for the ability to create max level gear so they can start overcharging for it on the exchange. Nor do they want to spend dilithium to make it go faster. Instant gratification is all they desire.
Except that for many of us old-timers, this will be the THIRD time we have had to grind all the way up to the top of the crafting system.
The initial crafting system was little more than a joke, but many of us used it anyway, because there were a few nice, shiny things.
When crafting v2 came out a couple years ago, we had to start at zero again, but we did it because there were more shiny things available, and it made a bit more sense than the first one.
Now, with the time gate so much tighter, those of us who took the weeks and months necessary to master TWO different crafting systems have to start from zero again, with TWO YEARS of grinding to look forward to?
I'm sorry, but this crafting system is nothing more than a slap in the face for those of us who have already gotten to the top twice now, only to find that it will take orders of magnitude more time to do so yet again...unless we want to pry open our wallets more than we already do.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I've been thinking about this statement. And I agree with it to an extent.
BUT...
I don't think it's unreasonable to have a crafting system kinda sorta in line with the character's actualy level. At present it takes a few days (less with XP weekends) to reach level 50. So logically, there should be some sort of unlock or accolade that keeps the flow so we can craft the same level (or close) gear. But instead we have a crafting system that takes around to complete at max and several reps that each take months to finish. On what planet does that make sense? Shouldn't at lease ONE of our gear providing methods match our level (outside PVE missions, which aren't always useful anyway). Think about how flawed that logic is and tell me it's a realistic and balanced system.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
Except that for many of us old-timers, this will be the THIRD time we have had to grind all the way up to the top of the crafting system.
The initial crafting system was little more than a joke, but many of us used it anyway, because there were a few nice, shiny things.
When crafting v2 came out a couple years ago, we had to start at zero again, but we did it because there were more shiny things available, and it made a bit more sense than the first one.
Now, with the time gate so much tighter, those of us who took the weeks and months necessary to master TWO different crafting systems have to start from zero again, with TWO YEARS of grinding to look forward to?
I'm sorry, but this crafting system is nothing more than a slap in the face for those of us who have already gotten to the top twice now, only to find that it will take orders of magnitude more time to do so yet again...unless we want to pry open our wallets more than we already do.
I must admit, I'd be pretty mad if I'd done that and didn't get even some small acknowledgement of it in a new crafting system - like, I dunno, starting at level 5 or something.
1: You're punished with an extremely long 'crafting cycle if you don't fork over dilithium or the credit card'.
2: Crafting isn't fun and by the time this crafting cycle is complete the gear will be ten levels passed worthless for the average player.
3: This crafting grind is a sad excuse to make extra money and to get players to log into the game multiple times daily to pad their numbers.
There isn't a single other MMO not owned by Cryptic/PWE that has this ridiculous a crafting system. In every other game the crafting system is something you level WITH your character to supplement drops and gear rewards. For every other MMO - the crafting system is something that can be completed in hours by a high end character with the resources to dump into it.
If they want to make the crafting cycle longer and make players interested, make the BS part relatively easy to do - and make the recipes something fun to gather. Something like a 15 part doff chain with a story behind them.
This crafting system is a chore right now, not something fun to do. If a game isn't fun, people won't play. That's pretty much all there is to it.
If they don't say something or make any kind of patches tomorrow, it's going to be bad.
As sad as it is. I'm one to agree.
My entire fleet has stopped crafting already as a whole, and thats about 20 people who've put quite a bit down already for this. We already lost 8 members cause of this stunt that was pulled for a crafting revival.
I think a grand portion of the playerbase would appreciate such changes.
2 days ago i went and tried tanks, now THERE was some imbalance, and crappy tudes, one more show of the state of the human condition for sure, STO wise, as for the crafting system, i smelt impending doom, and i am still washing undergarments, lol :P
my first reply to this thread, and hopefully my last.
im ok with a long journey to max out crafting.
i do believe that cryptic have back-pedalled with the removal of our ability to queue multiple research projects from the same school. everything said in the leadup to that nerf indicated we would be able to push a single school hard and focus on 'specialisation'.
if cryptic simply reverted that single nerf i would be happy enough with crafting to put real effort into into it.
im ok with the monetisation of crafting via 'finish now' with dil.
i wish the button wasnt 3x larger than any other button in the ui though. it reminds me of a 'FREE MONIES!!!' banner ad or whatnot.
i wish the button required a confirmation, or better yet, opened a contribution slider like the fleet holding dil contribution bucket. as is, its too 'all or nothing'.
i also believe that the amount of dil associated with 'finish now' is completely over the top, particularly when you take into consideration that there is no means to budget. you cant think 'ok i will just drop 5k into that'. im not opposed to spending dil, and prior to the research project nerf, i actually did. but if i am going to continue to do that the dill price is going to have to be reduced quite substantially.
im not asking for crafting to made easy. i dont want crafting to be something that everyone is going to max out in a couple of months. i am willing to 'grind'. but it just seems so... unfulfilling knowing how long i will be queuing single school research projects and having no other real interaction with crafting, nor any real use for crafting, til i hit lvl 15. theres not really anything worth crafting.
Comments
That's evidently not true, since daqhegh (and others I'm sure) hasn't put any dilithium into the system and is using it to make money selling components.
You have been really unlucky with the crits, I've critted 3 times,
You want some math's then fine
650000/6000=108.3 round up to 109, assuming no crits.
Slot 1 School 1 - 109 day to 15 - School 6 day 218 to 15
Slot 2 unlock on day 2, School 2 day 110 to 15, School 7 day 219 to 15
Slot 3 unlock on day 5, School 3 day 114 to 15
Slot 4 unlock on day 13, School 4 day 122 to 15
Slot 5 unlock on day 109 School 5 day 218 to 15
Somebody else has already done the calculation for the day when each slot gets unlocked earlier in this thread.
That's why I suggested that the exp reward should be increased to 10k, then it will come down to 65 days to lvl 15 one school for people to lazy to craft. Which is a bit more reasonable.
Plz share what you are smoking...You do realize that you can level a player from 1-50 in a weekend if it is double XP. Without double xp, maybe a week and that is maybe playing 1-3 hours a day. Next with the sponsorship tokens, you can do Rep in 3 weeks and 625 Marks. That is 4 weeks and you are full rep and max level. Now it may take another month to do enough to gear your alt but it doesn't certainly take 11 months even 6 months.
The quoted post operates on the assumption that one of the devs had not specifically said that the time to complete one school was to be comparable to completing a single rep to 5. However, a Dev did in fact say that, which indicates that everything was working as intended before the Nerf.
I was thinking about that. The only people I could see supporting this are either very ignorant, or they want to keep their hold on the market for as long as possible.
I see Omni-beams going for as much as 80-100m.
The tone of some of the posts in this thread are starting to edge into Flaming/Trolling territory.
Please don't.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Constructive feedback is ignored.
Flaming/Trolling feedback at least gets a response.
It's along the lines of the child that acts out, not saying that we're children or anything of the sort - simply making the analogy of the child that acts out because it's the only time the child gets any attention. The child gets attention from their negative behavior, they attach the value to themselves that comes along with that.
So the only way to feel that one matters to Cryptic is to get warnings, violations, temporary bans, and permanent bans from going off the deep end...cause otherwise, one is just ignored. The only attention comes from behaving badly...
...and that's sad.
The previous poster does have a point. It's been a couple of days and no word from them on if they would like to work this out with the player base. You can only ignore people so long till tempers start to flare. I understand there are rules here.
Still, if you don't "answer your phone" for 2 days while you are a business, people start to wonder if you even care.
If you're operating a nightclub, patrons fighting each other in the foyer is not good for business. Similar principle here.
And this is the last time you will ever hear me identify with a bouncer.
I would submit that getting yourself banned does not get you any Dev attention. What you get, essentially, is attention from a volunteer with no direct line to the Devs and a CM who doesn't have the time to deal with you.
But yeah, a little ranting and raving here and there... s'all fine if you don't cross the line.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Nope, nope, nope...too late. A certain club on a certain map is going to end up with a bouncer named bluegeek.
I like that idea.
I vote for Bouncer Bluegeek.
Okay... just make sure he's pale, unathletic-looking, and completely non-threatening. And blue.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oix5FnOjbZY
There's nothing to work out. We don't own the game and therefore have NO say in how it goes.
Cryptic made some specific statements -like each school ~= one reputation-, which are now contradicted by the patch. To explain the change and the new goals should be a matter of course. If you explain yourself, people might not agree, but they understand. Simply ignore them and they will come to their own conclusions - which will certainly not be favourable for the company.
There are not many areas of business with better connected customers than in online/gaming. Excellent communication is under such conditions mandatory, because you don't ignore and offend a single isolated customer, but a part of your overall community, dealing damage that after some point might not ever be undone again.
Keeping with your analogy, the reason the patrons are infighting is that they feel ignored by the establishment employees.
We've heard nothing behind the reasoning of this change. There's been no discourse over a compromise, many of which have been offered up in this very thread.
Any response at all, no matter how brief, is better than being ignored.
The initial crafting system was little more than a joke, but many of us used it anyway, because there were a few nice, shiny things.
When crafting v2 came out a couple years ago, we had to start at zero again, but we did it because there were more shiny things available, and it made a bit more sense than the first one.
Now, with the time gate so much tighter, those of us who took the weeks and months necessary to master TWO different crafting systems have to start from zero again, with TWO YEARS of grinding to look forward to?
I'm sorry, but this crafting system is nothing more than a slap in the face for those of us who have already gotten to the top twice now, only to find that it will take orders of magnitude more time to do so yet again...unless we want to pry open our wallets more than we already do.
No, Shran actually looks aggressive.
More like this guy. Only skinny.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Mot.jpg
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
lol
I've been thinking about this statement. And I agree with it to an extent.
BUT...
I don't think it's unreasonable to have a crafting system kinda sorta in line with the character's actualy level. At present it takes a few days (less with XP weekends) to reach level 50. So logically, there should be some sort of unlock or accolade that keeps the flow so we can craft the same level (or close) gear. But instead we have a crafting system that takes around to complete at max and several reps that each take months to finish. On what planet does that make sense? Shouldn't at lease ONE of our gear providing methods match our level (outside PVE missions, which aren't always useful anyway). Think about how flawed that logic is and tell me it's a realistic and balanced system.
I must admit, I'd be pretty mad if I'd done that and didn't get even some small acknowledgement of it in a new crafting system - like, I dunno, starting at level 5 or something.
1: You're punished with an extremely long 'crafting cycle if you don't fork over dilithium or the credit card'.
2: Crafting isn't fun and by the time this crafting cycle is complete the gear will be ten levels passed worthless for the average player.
3: This crafting grind is a sad excuse to make extra money and to get players to log into the game multiple times daily to pad their numbers.
There isn't a single other MMO not owned by Cryptic/PWE that has this ridiculous a crafting system. In every other game the crafting system is something you level WITH your character to supplement drops and gear rewards. For every other MMO - the crafting system is something that can be completed in hours by a high end character with the resources to dump into it.
If they want to make the crafting cycle longer and make players interested, make the BS part relatively easy to do - and make the recipes something fun to gather. Something like a 15 part doff chain with a story behind them.
This crafting system is a chore right now, not something fun to do. If a game isn't fun, people won't play. That's pretty much all there is to it.
As sad as it is. I'm one to agree.
My entire fleet has stopped crafting already as a whole, and thats about 20 people who've put quite a bit down already for this. We already lost 8 members cause of this stunt that was pulled for a crafting revival.
I think a grand portion of the playerbase would appreciate such changes.
Oh the humanity.... Oh the insanity.... Oh the Empty Queue bugs....
Yeah, old vid but very good vid. It still reminds me how the frak could they shut down that series....
I only wish that they had added non-Aegis UR deflectors and engines like they did with weapons.
im ok with a long journey to max out crafting.
i do believe that cryptic have back-pedalled with the removal of our ability to queue multiple research projects from the same school. everything said in the leadup to that nerf indicated we would be able to push a single school hard and focus on 'specialisation'.
if cryptic simply reverted that single nerf i would be happy enough with crafting to put real effort into into it.
im ok with the monetisation of crafting via 'finish now' with dil.
i wish the button wasnt 3x larger than any other button in the ui though. it reminds me of a 'FREE MONIES!!!' banner ad or whatnot.
i wish the button required a confirmation, or better yet, opened a contribution slider like the fleet holding dil contribution bucket. as is, its too 'all or nothing'.
i also believe that the amount of dil associated with 'finish now' is completely over the top, particularly when you take into consideration that there is no means to budget. you cant think 'ok i will just drop 5k into that'. im not opposed to spending dil, and prior to the research project nerf, i actually did. but if i am going to continue to do that the dill price is going to have to be reduced quite substantially.
im not asking for crafting to made easy. i dont want crafting to be something that everyone is going to max out in a couple of months. i am willing to 'grind'. but it just seems so... unfulfilling knowing how long i will be queuing single school research projects and having no other real interaction with crafting, nor any real use for crafting, til i hit lvl 15. theres not really anything worth crafting.
free jkname
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