It makes more sense to do it this way where all the major feedback is for the new system when it spans multiple blogs than having it in multiple threads.
No, it doesn't make more sense this way. It's horribly confusing. The updated blogs aren't kept current in the forum so you have to go elsewhere to even know there's a new blog. And the discussion itself is fractured. There's the general theme that this is about crafting, but each blog touches on something specifically different. Like if I want to talk about resource gathering, it's going to get lost because right now it's all about the Aegis.
No, sorry, this way of doing it makes no sense if you want to actually have a discussion and feedback process that works.
The only way this makes sense is if you want to klump the entire discussion together into one big hulking mass of gibberish. Which this thread is doing a great job of.
It's like people have forgotten what the idea of a forum is actually all about.
No, it doesn't make more sense this way. It's horribly confusing. The updated blogs aren't kept current in the forum so you have to go elsewhere to even know there's a new blog. And the discussion itself is fractured. There's the general theme that this is about crafting, but each blog touches on something specifically different. Like if I want to talk about resource gathering, it's going to get lost because right now it's all about the Aegis.
No, sorry, this way of doing it makes no sense if you want to actually have a discussion and feedback process that works.
The only way this makes sense is if you want to klump the entire discussion together into one big hulking mass of gibberish. Which this thread is doing a great job of.
It's like people have forgotten what the idea of a forum is actually all about.
Well one thing throwing everything in to a pig pile accomplishes is that it is easier to ignore one thread then 5 or 10, or how many it would be depending on how you count all the problems with this new stuff only Cryptic seem to like.
I don't see any point to a crafting system that can only make fixed items. And in the Dev blog it says each school only has ONE special item at the end of the skill tree for you to craft.
This is not conducive toward the inclination to begin using this new crafting system as it is currently designed.
Simply said, I will not be using the crafting system as it's currently designed.
Let me be crystal clear on this: If I can't make what I want; weapon types with the bonus types I like; then it is useless to me. I do not want a fixed system.
I like to pick what mods I use, just because I'm not a fan of CritH and CritD which seems to be on every darn weapon in the game!
And don't even bother discussing the benefits of Critting, you will be wasting your time, because I just don't care what you think about them.
So yes. I would like to say, okay, I'm crafting this weapon, these are the mods it will have.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I like to pick what mods I use, just because I'm not a fan of CritH and CritD which seems to be on every darn weapon in the game!
And don't even bother discussing the benefits of Critting, you will be wasting your time, because I just don't care what you think about them.
So yes. I would like to say, okay, I'm crafting this weapon, these are the mods it will have.
I don't see any point to a crafting system that can only make fixed items. And in the Dev blog it says each school only has ONE special item at the end of the skill tree for you to craft.
This is not conducive toward the inclination to begin using this new crafting system as it is currently designed.
Simply said, I will not be using the crafting system as it's currently designed.
Let me be crystal clear on this: If I can't make what I want; weapon types with the bonus types I like; then it is useless to me. I do not want a fixed system.
I love to be able to choose which mods I like to have on my new weapon.
What I like more is that I could take that finished weapon and add an other mod to it or remove the old mod and put in a new one. Of course the amount of mods an item can have should remain connected to the item's rarity level.
Because I don't send my crew down to engineering to make a modification to my ship without telling them exactly what I want and not letting them sleep until they are finished with it.
I don't see any point to a crafting system that can only make fixed items. And in the Dev blog it says each school only has ONE special item at the end of the skill tree for you to craft.
This is not conducive toward the inclination to begin using this new crafting system as it is currently designed.
Simply said, I will not be using the crafting system as it's currently designed.
Let me be crystal clear on this: If I can't make what I want; weapon types with the bonus types I like; then it is useless to me. I do not want a fixed system.
Since there are only a handful of high-end items, the next question I am asking is, "What else do they have for Season 9.5?" Cryptic can make a million ways to get gear. Unless there is a reason for grinding the gear, I do not see a need to log into "Star Trek: Online".
I hope Cryptic has something additional in store for Season 9.5.
Well, I tried it out on tribble, and I kinda like it actually. It has less actual things to collect, and the conversion rate from old mats to new mats is actually pretty sweet (though random). Though, I still haven't found any of the purple quality materials.
It took almost no time at all to reach level 1, and I didn't even need any of the rare mats or dil to do it. Leveling doesn't actually require use of dil at all AFAICT. And getting crits on the assignments to convert mats to components is sweet.
Well, I tried it out on tribble, and I kinda like it actually. It has less actual things to collect, and the conversion rate from old mats to new mats is actually pretty sweet (though random). Though, I still haven't found any of the purple quality materials.
Not sure we're talking about the same thing here ... but with 600 Rare Particles to trade in ... I only got ~20 rare new Crafting Materials (BECAUSE it's random / not "rare for rare"), and of course ZERO Very Rare ... sure lots of of common & uncommon but that's worth Vendor Trash ...
It took almost no time at all to reach level 1, and I didn't even need any of the rare mats or dil to do it. Leveling doesn't actually require use of dil at all AFAICT. And getting crits on the assignments to convert mats to components is sweet.
Yeah don't worry the first Level is totally representative for 2-20 .... *sarcasm off*
Foundry doors are probably the only good thing out of the removal of exploration, for the players at least. I agree that the game needs more space, but for what exactly.
Kurland Here Kurland Here This is Kurland Kurland Kurland Here Kurland, Do you copy?
Nice solution on the accolades, I'm assuming for those of us who haven't gotten every accolade that it will autocount how many times we've already completed cluster missions correct? Will it add it to the number of times we've actually completed the exploration missions?
The daily missions to explore these Exploration Clusters have been removed, including the Explore Strange New Worlds and We Need Breathing Room daily missions. In order to replace these sources of Dilithium, we are looking at ways to add more Dilithium to rewards throughout the game, with a focus on adding it to rewards for single player content.
And uhh, don't take too long on the details to this single player dilithium solution you have. You said looking at ways, are you looking for suggestions? I mean these forums have likely already told you what we think, but we could remind you. I'm liking what I'm hearing in this regard though
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Will the Chart the Expanse Daily missions still count or will they be removed? These are different than the regular explore ones. Just curious.
The whole physical space of the exploration clusters is being removed. Any mission that required you to enter a cluster is gone.
All of the DOFF assignments are supposed to remain, you just interact with them in space the same way you would interact with a console.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Oh dear. Well what can be said about this minor travesty.
1- Crafting needed to be overhauled, but not because the mechanics were bad (well, they weren't the worst I've seen). Crafting needed a revamp to open up ALL items to be craftable and with Mods of the crafter's choice. Okay, so pretty much everything can be crafted now, but with fixed Mod options. Oh that's right, they're not fixed; we, the crafters, just have no choice over what mods our crafted items come with.
BAD IDEA! The mechanic might be better, but the use-ability and functionality has barely improved. Oh, to see a crafting system that rewards the player with the item they want, not a randomly generated list of mods (however nice the new mods are).
2- More unique items are nice, but really, the functionality of these is restricted to max level characters only.
BAD IDEA! You want us to get crafting ASAP, and that means low-level variants need to be opened up. What about a Common [White] Quality Omni-directional [Energy] Beam Array Mk [2-10]. I'd buy into crafting for that and I've made multiple Aegis sets purely because they are GREAT for leveling a character, but of course, that's no longer the case. I hope you are working on a long list of new items to add over time, we're going to want a lot more to keep us interested.
3- Dilithium is a thing, I get that, but Refined Dilithium is a time consuming thing to acquire. It might only take 2 hours (ish) of playing to hit the 8k daily cap, but that doesn't go very far when everything costs so much. Thank you for rewarding us with yet MORE sinks for that effort spent grinding. It's bad enough that it's harder to grind Dilithium on UFP characters, but the sheer scale of Dilithium requirements for the new crafting system are outrageous by even the best of estimates.
BAD IDEA! You need to make crafting available and I'm really looking at it askance now. What I've seen has really put me off and all the shiny of the top end gear is so heavily tainted by the restrictive Dilithium and time costs that I'm not sure I WANT to craft any of the stuff it takes to GET to the good stuff. I doubt any of my newer toons will touch it at all, and I'll be finishing ALL my Rep's and my Fleet off before I consider touching the new crafting with my mains. given that I'm effectively 2-manning a fleet ATM, that's a long, long time.
4- Obviously, dev blogs are mostly written by developers, people not used to writing press releases, but the particular one in question (29) is not very clear. Please tell me we can still access the Exploration Cluster missions by going to the interactable object, to remove those missions entirely would be a...
BAD IDEA!
I think that you're missing a trick here. Over time, your players have posted some absolutely excellent system revamp ideas for the crafting and exploration systems. You could have taken heaps from these suggestions, but, by your currently released version, you seem to have opted for your very own system and missed the primary concerns your players have had with crafting. I know it's not the finished article, but it needs to be drastically improved, now, while you have a conversation with your players and the chance to repair the damage that's being caused to that relationship.
How about scrapping half the Dilithium costs and make it cost more EC. I'd rather spend 8 million EC on an item than 8k Refined Dilithium and can't see any reason why that shouldn't be an option.
Lastly, You may have made the Crafting Tiers too big. I saw an example that lists 5000 play hours to max crafting with a single character. I haven't done the math myself, but even half of that would be too much. As example. I currently have two accounts and ten toons across those accounts. I want to max crafting with all of them, but by the above estimate, that's 50,000 hours of continuous crafting. At my current level of play (about 8 hours per week) that's 6,250 weeks, or 120 years! Yep, even if you halved the time needed and all the crafting can be run simultaneously, that's still 6 years or spend yet MORE Dilithium.
At least everything's listed as bind on equip, but that example doesn't cover time spent grinding for materials and Dilithium...
Please. The Feedback on this thread is consistently negative. That needs to be changed! This thread should read like the NEW ESD thread did, not it's mirror universe counterpart.
EDIT!
Hah! I just found the math posts on maxing out crafting. 6 years wasn't even close was it!?
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I just tried to access the new crafting content on Tribble server. The game crashed twice
(didn't try a 3rd time) attmpting to start a Delta Volanis DOff mission from the marker. Then tried to enter Mem A. to evaluate the new crafting system. There was no option available to enter the system upon arrival at the sector map marker, using the autopilot system.
The latest Dev Blog said this content was available. It seem the blog was incorrect.
I just tried to access the new crafting content on Tribble server. The game crashed twice
(didn't try a 3rd time) attmpting to start a Delta Volanis DOff mission from the marker. Then tried to enter Mem A. to evaluate the new crafting system. There was no option available to enter the system upon arrival at the sector map marker, using the autopilot system.
The latest Dev Blog said this content was available. It seem the blog was incorrect.
Memory Alpha is closed. If you want to craft on Tribble you have to open the DOff missions tab and click the R&D tab to see your options to craft there. This can be done anywhere on any map. Crafting is now part of the DOff system....
I was wondering how the new crafting system will affect the crafting on Defra invasion zone.
Will the Agile Assembler , Deft Designer , Prolific Producer Missions be converted to new style Doff based crafting? If so, how will it work for items like borg specific Shield charges etc ? Or will they just be dumped on the obsolete pile with the Explorations missions, or have the Devs forgot about them the same way they seemed to have forgotten that you can craft old style Kits ( up to MK V) at the New Romulus Command Centre ?
Alright, I read through the last 6 pages of replies since my last post, and here are still MORE reasons that the crafting system base design, as it stands, is flawed:
I don't see any point to a crafting system that can only make fixed items. And in the Dev blog it says each school only has ONE special item at the end of the skill tree for you to craft.
This is not conducive toward the inclination to begin using this new crafting system as it is currently designed.
Simply said, I will not be using the crafting system as it's currently designed.
Let me be crystal clear on this: If I can't make what I want; weapon types with the bonus types I like; then it is useless to me. I do not want a fixed system.
thetantine, THIS is what killed the old crafting system. Fixed recipes that became obsolete as the game was added to.
And I think tilarta really hit the nail on the head with this post:
I like to pick what mods I use, just because I'm not a fan of CritH and CritD which seems to be on every darn weapon in the game!
And don't even bother discussing the benefits of Critting, you will be wasting your time, because I just don't care what you think about them.
So yes. I would like to say, okay, I'm crafting this weapon, these are the mods it will have.
Oh, and this beautiful post from britewolf. (I have added emphasis to a few points)
Oh dear. Well what can be said about this minor travesty.
1- Crafting needed to be overhauled, but not because the mechanics were bad (well, they weren't the worst I've seen). Crafting needed a revamp to open up ALL items to be craftable and with Mods of the crafter's choice. Okay, so pretty much everything can be crafted now, but with fixed Mod options. Oh that's right, they're not fixed; we, the crafters, just have no choice over what mods our crafted items come with.
BAD IDEA! The mechanic might be better, but the use-ability and functionality has barely improved. Oh, to see a crafting system that rewards the player with the item they want, not a randomly generated list of mods (however nice the new mods are).
2- More unique items are nice, but really, the functionality of these is restricted to max level characters only.
BAD IDEA! You want us to get crafting ASAP, and that means low-level variants need to be opened up. What about a Common [White] Quality Omni-directional [Energy] Beam Array Mk [2-10]. I'd buy into crafting for that and I've made multiple Aegis sets purely because they are GREAT for leveling a character, but of course, that's no longer the case. I hope you are working on a long list of new items to add over time, we're going to want a lot more to keep us interested.
3- Dilithium is a thing, I get that, but Refined Dilithium is a time consuming thing to acquire. It might only take 2 hours (ish) of playing to hit the 8k daily cap, but that doesn't go very far when everything costs so much. Thank you for rewarding us with yet MORE sinks for that effort spent grinding. It's bad enough that it's harder to grind Dilithium on UFP characters, but the sheer scale of Dilithium requirements for the new crafting system are outrageous by even the best of estimates.
BAD IDEA! You need to make crafting available and I'm really looking at it askance now. What I've seen has really put me off and all the shiny of the top end gear is so heavily tainted by the restrictive Dilithium and time costs that I'm not sure I WANT to craft any of the stuff it takes to GET to the good stuff. I doubt any of my newer toons will touch it at all, and I'll be finishing ALL my Rep's and my Fleet off before I consider touching the new crafting with my mains. given that I'm effectively 2-manning a fleet ATM, that's a long, long time.
4- Obviously, dev blogs are mostly written by developers, people not used to writing press releases, but the particular one in question (29) is not very clear. Please tell me we can still access the Exploration Cluster missions by going to the interactable object, to remove those missions entirely would be a...
BAD IDEA!
I think that you're missing a trick here. Over time, your players have posted some absolutely excellent system revamp ideas for the crafting and exploration systems. You could have taken heaps from these suggestions, but, by your currently released version, you seem to have opted for your very own system and missed the primary concerns your players have had with crafting. I know it's not the finished article, but it needs to be drastically improved, now, while you have a conversation with your players and the chance to repair the damage that's being caused to that relationship.
How about scrapping half the Dilithium costs and make it cost more EC. I'd rather spend 8 million EC on an item than 8k Refined Dilithium and can't see any reason why that shouldn't be an option.
Lastly, You may have made the Crafting Tiers too big. I saw an example that lists 5000 play hours to max crafting with a single character. I haven't done the math myself, but even half of that would be too much. As example. I currently have two accounts and ten toons across those accounts. I want to max crafting with all of them, but by the above estimate, that's 50,000 hours of continuous crafting. At my current level of play (about 8 hours per week) that's 6,250 weeks, or 120 years! Yep, even if you halved the time needed and all the crafting can be run simultaneously, that's still 6 years or spend yet MORE Dilithium.
At least everything's listed as bind on equip, but that example doesn't cover time spent grinding for materials and Dilithium...
Please. The Feedback on this thread is consistently negative. That needs to be changed! This thread should read like the NEW ESD thread did, not it's mirror universe counterpart.
EDIT!
Hah! I just found the math posts on maxing out crafting. 6 years wasn't even close was it!?
This post says it all. THE CURRENT REVAMP WILL NOT BE VIABLE!
The original crafting system died due to lack of adaptability and usability. The new revamp is the same system with a few modifications. SCRAP THE SYSTEM AND MAKE IT BETTER!
Here is a direct copy of my post from back on page 68:
TO ADJUDICATORHAWK and the rest of the devs working on this crafting system,
Please junk the pathetic "fixed item crafting" that has plagued STO forever.
The crafting system SHOULD be completely modular. Utilize the Doff system for creating schematics and individual "generic parts", then utilize those in separate crafting missions to create items.
The way that it SHOULD work is to have the player create a base common item, then add "tags" or "mods" to that item. This allows players to create gear that is in demand, as well as what they actually want to use.
It saves your dev team a lot of time as well, since all you have to code is the missions and "tag selection interface". New tags are easy to add, as you simply add them to the interface. There is no extra work in creating menus or items, unless the crafter can get bonuses on the numerical variables of his items.
Unique items then feel much more special, as they are the ones that actually get their own mission to create.
With this style of crafting system, you will have a system that can be updated at any time by simply adding tags to the system and linking the appropriate item as the reward.
With the system designed as per the news post, it will be obsolete as quickly as the original crafting system was.
Please, if you want to actually IMPROVE something, take this advice and make a crafting system that can be updated regularly, rather than a simple rehash of the same crafting system.
It seems really sad that the only dev team replies that I have really seen in this thread have been about deleting flame threads. Are you actually reading the threads in order to gain feedback and ideas on making things better, or are these threads simply "the tail wagging the dog"?
Please don't release a crafting system that will be worthless except as a sideshow by the time some of us will be able to get to max level.
I was wondering how the new crafting system will affect the crafting on Defra invasion zone.
Will the Agile Assembler , Deft Designer , Prolific Producer Missions be converted to new style Doff based crafting? If so, how will it work for items like borg specific Shield charges etc ? Or will they just be dumped on the obsolete pile with the Explorations missions, or have the Devs forgot about them the same way they seemed to have forgotten that you can craft old style Kits ( up to MK V) at the New Romulus Command Centre ?
It has not been changed as of the latest Tribble patch.
I guess what I do not understand there was a critical need to turn off the exploration zones without replacing them with something else? Were they broken, destroying the game? No. It is represented as if they are not needed for crafting mats any longer. But there are those of us who do not craft nor care about crafting, who are interested in random encounters. I have been concerned about the style of the game map in STO for a long time. This seems to be a step backwards, even if the system was deemed rudimentary. Something is better than nothing.
I also continue to be concerned about the current state of affairs with the MAC client. The studio announced months ago that the MAC client had gone from beta to live, and its actually got WORSE. On a late 20013 IMAC that I have used to play the beta client reasonably fine, STO with the official MAC client release has done nothing but crash to the point where the game is unplayable. I am fortunate enough to be able to play on a PC as well, but it just smacks of lack of focus of the dev team to offer a MAC client going live and then not support it. Just be honest to the community and drop it please.
The lack of community interaction on these kinds of items is losing me on this game, as much of a Trek fan as I am. Other development studies that are small in size are making huge strides in engaging their public.
=/\= ==================== =/\= William Sinclair, USS Andalusia
Exploration Division, Alpha Squadron
12th Fleet, United Federation of Planets =/\= ==================== =/\=
Just so I am clear, we only have a 10% for very rare (purple) at max level for all gear but the new craftable school gear will come very rare with a chance of elite?
Please confirm. If the above assumption is correct, then this new system is DOA.
You can stop making blogs about it, I'm threw.
What else are we getting with season 9.5?
Haven't seen anything worth while yet.
Alright, Ive played with the new system for a few days and I have some comments. Hopefully they will be helpful ... and not just a negative critique of everyone's hard work.
Leveling crafting - I dig the fact you can make a few components and then shoot up to lvl 2 in any school if you have the materials for it. That's awesome. I don't like the ridiculous amount of xp needed to get to lvl 3 in a school. going from 300 to 11000? Really? If the point was to make someone need to farm every chance they get it will lead to many frustrated players. That aside, if the points awarded for crafting higher level systems, beams for example, will be able to offset this, then I am all in.
Materials - I like how you guys updated all the materials so you get a random assortment of parts when you turn in the old data. I wish there was a more fair trade off ... giving up rare materials under the old system should not give out common mid level components in the new system in my opinion. A more fair and streamlined system may be more helpful. I did not have to farm for materials on Tribble, so I am unsure how that will need to be accomplished in the new system, but hopefully it will be many less materials that will be needed. I didn't like how we needed 3 types of materials over 7 different levels to craft everything possible.
Leveling crafting - I dig the fact you can make a few components and then shoot up to lvl 2 in any school if you have the materials for it. That's awesome. I don't like the ridiculous amount of xp needed to get to lvl 3 in a school. going from 300 to 11000? Really?
It's only getting exponentially worse from there on while the hourly XP stays the same ... managed to get to Level 5, but after that my hand hurt and I was completely discouraged ... (with Dilithium Shortcut of course)
If they really wanna keep it this way, they should at least give us the option to craft several Items at once, i.E. queue 20x Beams, and wait for 20h ...
... or just drastically increase the crafting time :
i.E. 1 Mk VII Beam = 20h = 12000 XP
... not sure what to do with 25.000 Mk VII Beams anyway ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
After playing with the crafting system now for several days I can conclude that I would never be able to craft anything I want in my lifetime. There just isn't enough time in my day to commit to doing ceafting in a reasonable time. And since I would never be able to complete the crafting, I will never start it. For a casual gamer 600 pts a day will mean it will take me aaround 10 years to level crafting to the make for just one school. This is completelu unreasonable.
I can make out crafting in WOW in just a few months. I usually can attain the new max crafting level during it's release content. Cryptic really needs to look at these numbers and re do them. Either dropping the amount needed or seriously upping the amount you get. Otherwise this system will see less use than the last system. If it see's any use at all.
After playing with the crafting system now for several days I can conclude that I would never be able to craft anything I want in my lifetime. There just isn't enough time in my day to commit to doing ceafting in a reasonable time. And since I would never be able to complete the crafting, I will never start it. For a casual gamer 600 pts a day will mean it will take me aaround 10 years to level crafting to the make for just one school. This is completelu unreasonable.
I can make out crafting in WOW in just a few months. I usually can attain the new max crafting level during it's release content. Cryptic really needs to look at these numbers and re do them. Either dropping the amount needed or seriously upping the amount you get. Otherwise this system will see less use than the last system. If it see's any use at all.
I for one am seriously thinking about not using it and think the older method was a lot better making this one a lottery even when you use dil is making season 9.5 a laughing stock of other games and the poster chld on how not to do a MMO
NO TO ARC
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Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This Ultra Rare Items from R&D seems fine and i want it ALL on my Characters.
I really hope i can start at Level 15 and craft the Ultra Rare Items from beginn of the Patch because i have allready maxed out R&D on some of my characters! And this is a lot of work to max out Level 15 on every Research and Character!
Otherwise i see no more time for play the Game, this will be a real Grindfest!!!
and i do not have fun with all it!
And the idea to progress faster with paying Dilithium is poor!
So PWE, give us please Level 15:mad:
Fleet Leader:Hellenic Space Force
Characters FED: TAC Ponos - TAC Tromos - ENG Athena - ROM TAC Phovos - SCI Martyrium - REM Apatros
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This Ultra Rare Items from R&D seems fine and i want it ALL on my Characters.
I really hope i can start at Level 15 and craft the Ultra Rare Items from beginn of the Patch because i have allready maxed out R&D on some of my characters! And this is a lot of work to max out Level 15 on every Research and Character!
Otherwise i see no more time for play the Game, this will be a real Grindfest!!!
and i do not have fun with all it!
And the idea to progress faster with paying Dilithium is poor!
So PWE, give us please Level 15:mad:
Nope sorry, your R&D Progress goes poof (already confirmed several times) ... you'll get a Doff which is required to craft the (new) Aegis Set, though ... as compensation ...
Besides old crafting can't be compared to the new one ... it was possible to max out the old system in less than 15min ... the new one takes Years (especially if you don't want to speed up the progress with Dilithium)
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
Comments
You would think that, but then you look around at what this has become. I mean in the past there was at least the illusion that feedback was welcomed.
Not this time.
No, it doesn't make more sense this way. It's horribly confusing. The updated blogs aren't kept current in the forum so you have to go elsewhere to even know there's a new blog. And the discussion itself is fractured. There's the general theme that this is about crafting, but each blog touches on something specifically different. Like if I want to talk about resource gathering, it's going to get lost because right now it's all about the Aegis.
No, sorry, this way of doing it makes no sense if you want to actually have a discussion and feedback process that works.
The only way this makes sense is if you want to klump the entire discussion together into one big hulking mass of gibberish. Which this thread is doing a great job of.
It's like people have forgotten what the idea of a forum is actually all about.
Well one thing throwing everything in to a pig pile accomplishes is that it is easier to ignore one thread then 5 or 10, or how many it would be depending on how you count all the problems with this new stuff only Cryptic seem to like.
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This is not conducive toward the inclination to begin using this new crafting system as it is currently designed.
Simply said, I will not be using the crafting system as it's currently designed.
Let me be crystal clear on this: If I can't make what I want; weapon types with the bonus types I like; then it is useless to me. I do not want a fixed system.
I like to pick what mods I use, just because I'm not a fan of CritH and CritD which seems to be on every darn weapon in the game!
And don't even bother discussing the benefits of Critting, you will be wasting your time, because I just don't care what you think about them.
So yes. I would like to say, okay, I'm crafting this weapon, these are the mods it will have.
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
I love to be able to choose which mods I like to have on my new weapon.
What I like more is that I could take that finished weapon and add an other mod to it or remove the old mod and put in a new one. Of course the amount of mods an item can have should remain connected to the item's rarity level.
Because I don't send my crew down to engineering to make a modification to my ship without telling them exactly what I want and not letting them sleep until they are finished with it.
Recruitment: Neverwinter Online (spotlight)(wiki) - Star Trek Online Federation - Star Trek Online Klingon - Star Trek Online Romulan - Champions Online
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I hope Cryptic has something additional in store for Season 9.5.
*crosses fingers*
It took almost no time at all to reach level 1, and I didn't even need any of the rare mats or dil to do it. Leveling doesn't actually require use of dil at all AFAICT. And getting crits on the assignments to convert mats to components is sweet.
My character Tsin'xing
Not sure we're talking about the same thing here ... but with 600 Rare Particles to trade in ... I only got ~20 rare new Crafting Materials (BECAUSE it's random / not "rare for rare"), and of course ZERO Very Rare ... sure lots of of common & uncommon but that's worth Vendor Trash ...
Yeah don't worry the first Level is totally representative for 2-20 .... *sarcasm off*
=> if you want to get to Level 20 of all schools it's either ~5000 hours (nonstop playing) or ~21,000,000 Dilithium
PS : Just try to get to Lvl 5 in ONE School (without Dilithium) and you'll know the drill ... and it's getting exponentially worse from there on ...
And uhh, don't take too long on the details to this single player dilithium solution you have. You said looking at ways, are you looking for suggestions? I mean these forums have likely already told you what we think, but we could remind you. I'm liking what I'm hearing in this regard though
Will the Chart the Expanse Daily missions still count or will they be removed? These are different than the regular explore ones. Just curious.
The whole physical space of the exploration clusters is being removed. Any mission that required you to enter a cluster is gone.
All of the DOFF assignments are supposed to remain, you just interact with them in space the same way you would interact with a console.
1- Crafting needed to be overhauled, but not because the mechanics were bad (well, they weren't the worst I've seen). Crafting needed a revamp to open up ALL items to be craftable and with Mods of the crafter's choice. Okay, so pretty much everything can be crafted now, but with fixed Mod options. Oh that's right, they're not fixed; we, the crafters, just have no choice over what mods our crafted items come with.
BAD IDEA! The mechanic might be better, but the use-ability and functionality has barely improved. Oh, to see a crafting system that rewards the player with the item they want, not a randomly generated list of mods (however nice the new mods are).
2- More unique items are nice, but really, the functionality of these is restricted to max level characters only.
BAD IDEA! You want us to get crafting ASAP, and that means low-level variants need to be opened up. What about a Common [White] Quality Omni-directional [Energy] Beam Array Mk [2-10]. I'd buy into crafting for that and I've made multiple Aegis sets purely because they are GREAT for leveling a character, but of course, that's no longer the case. I hope you are working on a long list of new items to add over time, we're going to want a lot more to keep us interested.
3- Dilithium is a thing, I get that, but Refined Dilithium is a time consuming thing to acquire. It might only take 2 hours (ish) of playing to hit the 8k daily cap, but that doesn't go very far when everything costs so much. Thank you for rewarding us with yet MORE sinks for that effort spent grinding. It's bad enough that it's harder to grind Dilithium on UFP characters, but the sheer scale of Dilithium requirements for the new crafting system are outrageous by even the best of estimates.
BAD IDEA! You need to make crafting available and I'm really looking at it askance now. What I've seen has really put me off and all the shiny of the top end gear is so heavily tainted by the restrictive Dilithium and time costs that I'm not sure I WANT to craft any of the stuff it takes to GET to the good stuff. I doubt any of my newer toons will touch it at all, and I'll be finishing ALL my Rep's and my Fleet off before I consider touching the new crafting with my mains. given that I'm effectively 2-manning a fleet ATM, that's a long, long time.
4- Obviously, dev blogs are mostly written by developers, people not used to writing press releases, but the particular one in question (29) is not very clear. Please tell me we can still access the Exploration Cluster missions by going to the interactable object, to remove those missions entirely would be a...
BAD IDEA!
I think that you're missing a trick here. Over time, your players have posted some absolutely excellent system revamp ideas for the crafting and exploration systems. You could have taken heaps from these suggestions, but, by your currently released version, you seem to have opted for your very own system and missed the primary concerns your players have had with crafting. I know it's not the finished article, but it needs to be drastically improved, now, while you have a conversation with your players and the chance to repair the damage that's being caused to that relationship.
How about scrapping half the Dilithium costs and make it cost more EC. I'd rather spend 8 million EC on an item than 8k Refined Dilithium and can't see any reason why that shouldn't be an option.
Lastly, You may have made the Crafting Tiers too big. I saw an example that lists 5000 play hours to max crafting with a single character. I haven't done the math myself, but even half of that would be too much. As example. I currently have two accounts and ten toons across those accounts. I want to max crafting with all of them, but by the above estimate, that's 50,000 hours of continuous crafting. At my current level of play (about 8 hours per week) that's 6,250 weeks, or 120 years! Yep, even if you halved the time needed and all the crafting can be run simultaneously, that's still 6 years or spend yet MORE Dilithium.
At least everything's listed as bind on equip, but that example doesn't cover time spent grinding for materials and Dilithium...
Please. The Feedback on this thread is consistently negative. That needs to be changed! This thread should read like the NEW ESD thread did, not it's mirror universe counterpart.
EDIT!
Hah! I just found the math posts on maxing out crafting. 6 years wasn't even close was it!?
Captain of the venerable I.K.S. Y'Kun.
#MaybeALittleFluffy
(didn't try a 3rd time) attmpting to start a Delta Volanis DOff mission from the marker. Then tried to enter Mem A. to evaluate the new crafting system. There was no option available to enter the system upon arrival at the sector map marker, using the autopilot system.
The latest Dev Blog said this content was available. It seem the blog was incorrect.
Memory Alpha is closed. If you want to craft on Tribble you have to open the DOff missions tab and click the R&D tab to see your options to craft there. This can be done anywhere on any map. Crafting is now part of the DOff system....
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Will the Agile Assembler , Deft Designer , Prolific Producer Missions be converted to new style Doff based crafting? If so, how will it work for items like borg specific Shield charges etc ? Or will they just be dumped on the obsolete pile with the Explorations missions, or have the Devs forgot about them the same way they seemed to have forgotten that you can craft old style Kits ( up to MK V) at the New Romulus Command Centre ?
thetantine, THIS is what killed the old crafting system. Fixed recipes that became obsolete as the game was added to.
And I think tilarta really hit the nail on the head with this post:
Oh, and this beautiful post from britewolf. (I have added emphasis to a few points)
This post says it all. THE CURRENT REVAMP WILL NOT BE VIABLE!
The original crafting system died due to lack of adaptability and usability. The new revamp is the same system with a few modifications. SCRAP THE SYSTEM AND MAKE IT BETTER!
Here is a direct copy of my post from back on page 68:
It seems really sad that the only dev team replies that I have really seen in this thread have been about deleting flame threads. Are you actually reading the threads in order to gain feedback and ideas on making things better, or are these threads simply "the tail wagging the dog"?
Please don't release a crafting system that will be worthless except as a sideshow by the time some of us will be able to get to max level.
My character Tsin'xing
I also continue to be concerned about the current state of affairs with the MAC client. The studio announced months ago that the MAC client had gone from beta to live, and its actually got WORSE. On a late 20013 IMAC that I have used to play the beta client reasonably fine, STO with the official MAC client release has done nothing but crash to the point where the game is unplayable. I am fortunate enough to be able to play on a PC as well, but it just smacks of lack of focus of the dev team to offer a MAC client going live and then not support it. Just be honest to the community and drop it please.
The lack of community interaction on these kinds of items is losing me on this game, as much of a Trek fan as I am. Other development studies that are small in size are making huge strides in engaging their public.
William Sinclair, USS Andalusia
Exploration Division, Alpha Squadron
12th Fleet, United Federation of Planets
=/\= ==================== =/\=
Please confirm. If the above assumption is correct, then this new system is DOA.
You can stop making blogs about it, I'm threw.
What else are we getting with season 9.5?
Haven't seen anything worth while yet.
Leveling crafting - I dig the fact you can make a few components and then shoot up to lvl 2 in any school if you have the materials for it. That's awesome. I don't like the ridiculous amount of xp needed to get to lvl 3 in a school. going from 300 to 11000? Really? If the point was to make someone need to farm every chance they get it will lead to many frustrated players. That aside, if the points awarded for crafting higher level systems, beams for example, will be able to offset this, then I am all in.
Materials - I like how you guys updated all the materials so you get a random assortment of parts when you turn in the old data. I wish there was a more fair trade off ... giving up rare materials under the old system should not give out common mid level components in the new system in my opinion. A more fair and streamlined system may be more helpful. I did not have to farm for materials on Tribble, so I am unsure how that will need to be accomplished in the new system, but hopefully it will be many less materials that will be needed. I didn't like how we needed 3 types of materials over 7 different levels to craft everything possible.
It's only getting exponentially worse from there on while the hourly XP stays the same ... managed to get to Level 5, but after that my hand hurt and I was completely discouraged ... (with Dilithium Shortcut of course)
If they really wanna keep it this way, they should at least give us the option to craft several Items at once, i.E. queue 20x Beams, and wait for 20h ...
... or just drastically increase the crafting time :
i.E. 1 Mk VII Beam = 20h = 12000 XP
... not sure what to do with 25.000 Mk VII Beams anyway ...
I can make out crafting in WOW in just a few months. I usually can attain the new max crafting level during it's release content. Cryptic really needs to look at these numbers and re do them. Either dropping the amount needed or seriously upping the amount you get. Otherwise this system will see less use than the last system. If it see's any use at all.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I for one am seriously thinking about not using it and think the older method was a lot better making this one a lottery even when you use dil is making season 9.5 a laughing stock of other games and the poster chld on how not to do a MMO
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I really hope i can start at Level 15 and craft the Ultra Rare Items from beginn of the Patch because i have allready maxed out R&D on some of my characters! And this is a lot of work to max out Level 15 on every Research and Character!
Otherwise i see no more time for play the Game, this will be a real Grindfest!!!
and i do not have fun with all it!
And the idea to progress faster with paying Dilithium is poor!
So PWE, give us please Level 15:mad:
Characters FED: TAC Ponos - TAC Tromos - ENG Athena - ROM TAC Phovos - SCI Martyrium - REM Apatros
Fleet: La Familia: SCI Stave
KDF Fleet: Syndicate of Shadows: ENG Sha'Kal
Nope sorry, your R&D Progress goes poof (already confirmed several times) ... you'll get a Doff which is required to craft the (new) Aegis Set, though ... as compensation ...
Besides old crafting can't be compared to the new one ... it was possible to max out the old system in less than 15min ... the new one takes Years (especially if you don't want to speed up the progress with Dilithium)