So in otherwords, this boils down to the crafting system not being for casual players at all. THis will only ever be for those players that are either very hardcore or have the time to manipulate the Exchange. I will applaud those players, but I feel that this crafting system will be like the rep system is to me. Something I do when I have nothing else to accomplish. And at over 3000 hours to comeplet it, I will never get it done.
They need to rethink thier numbers if they want the majority of players to get invovlved in this. Either drop the numbers down or, better yet, up the numbers from making stuff.
Make mark XII worth 6400 point, Mark XI 3200, Mark X 1600, Mark VIII 800, Mark VI 400, Mark IV 200 and Mark II 100. THis would make progressing through the levels a little faster at the beginning, but gaining reasonable amount of steam as you try higher and higher gear.
Just thoughts as I keep trying the system on my limited play schedule. But unless they change this progression pace and reduce or remove the dilithium cost, I think the 'revamp' will flop. And I am afraid it might even drive some poeple who use crafting as a playstyle to completely abandon the game. Not a good move IMHO.
OK, I didn't wade through the entire thread for this specific item: considering how much bio-tech is in the game, it does not really make sense to limit materials to metals, gases, and particles. Fluidic tech screams for liquids, at least, not to mention the DOff missions to research unidentified substances (Biochemists are great for this). Tholians have crystalline tech, which is mineral, and minerals are not necessarily metals. Unknown alloys could be metal, or they could be semiconductors, which are partially ceramic. Such materials would be logical choices for energy-absorbing or ablative armor. If you insist on revamping crafting, at least pay attention to real-world developments, and include all the current in-game instances! :rolleyes:
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
OK, I didn't wade through the entire thread for this specific item: considering how much bio-tech is in the game, it does not really make sense to limit materials to metals, gases, and particles. Fluidic tech screams for liquids, at least, not to mention the DOff missions to research unidentified substances (Biochemists are great for this). Tholians have crystalline tech, which is mineral, and minerals are not necessarily metals. Unknown alloys could be metal, or they could be semiconductors, which are partially ceramic. Such materials would be logical choices for energy-absorbing or ablative armor. If you insist on revamping crafting, at least pay attention to real-world developments, and include all the current in-game instances!
The third category isn't 'particles', it's actually 'tech' which is a good catch-all for everything you mentioned.
One of the things they're trying to do with the crafting update is streamline the items, it hasn't even been officially unveiled yet and you're brainstorming ways to clutter it back up. More types of crafting materials won't help or solve anything.
...you're brainstorming ways to clutter it back up.
Actually, no, I'm voting to remove less stuff, and be more intelligent about how crafting might be done with the wide range of technologies STO puts in front of us. One of the biggest draws to STO for me is the rich complexity, so dumbing-down the crafting system is not "fixing" anything. And as many of the beta testers have already testified, the revamp is going south in a hurry; there is still time to step back and re-think some of the basic assumptions of why there should be crafting in the first place, and how to make it a "fun" part of the game. :rolleyes:
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
That's even longer than the Commendation time. Why is the gameplay being stretched out like this???
And after four and a half years, I haven't even finished that!
I have seven chars, and only one has reached the highest commendation level of anything (diplo, in this case).
144 days of continuous hourlies is not my thing. Between the constant rep and special events, there's no chance for downtime (I know, keeping people engaged brings in money). Not to mention grinding is not my thing either. I do the reps, if only to get the rewards at the end. But after the first couple of chars, I slow down. Some chars haven't finished Omega yet.
Second, the best rpg crafting systems that exists can be found in "Dragon Age", "Diablo II", and "Neverwinter Nights".
When I think of crafting systems, the first thing that comes to mind is 'weapon and gear customization'. Within the "Dragon Age" series, you gather or buy various sets of artifacts and runes. Players use the runes to enhance the functionality of certain gear. While the rune drops are random, player can buy specific ones from shops. Players have full control over the outcome.
"Star Trek: Online's" crafting system, as you know, relies too much upon fate.
My suggestions:
(1) Failed attempts at making a certain level item would not be consequential. Instead of players losing precious resources, the system should return them to the crafter.
(2) Customizations should not be permanent. Players should have the ability to remove artifacts freely, so they can test various types of customizations.
(3) Crafting items should solely rely upon skill. Within the layout of the character sheet, players should find a third section dedicated to crafting. Instead of creating a bloated system, the crafting skills can fall below the ground ones. Space, ground, and crafting. As a player moves up to level fifty, the individual should have the option to add points to the crafting section. Other words, once a player gets to levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, and 50, the individual will get a specific number of points to level a chosen specialization.
(4) Since players have to buy and/or discover crafting artifacts, the cost to create an item should be 50-55% lower than market value. Instead of charging people 20,000 dilithium for a crafted item, the price to buy them should hover around 9,000 to 10,000 dilithium. 9,000 to 24,000 dilithium is the current market value of rep, fleet, and dilithium store items. Why would players need to pay 100% for a crafted item, which they have to put together themselves? Players are doing all of the work.
(5) Place a price cap on lower level crafting resources on the exchange. Since entry level players are limited in resources, they need an affordable alternative to mission drops. I am referring to the common, uncommon, rare, and very rare resources, which are needed to craft MK I - MK IX items.
(6) Make crafted items 'bound to account on equip'.
(7) Limit timegates from one to two hour intervals.
(8) Allow multiple same level items to be crafted at the same time.
(9) If Cryptic is going to remove the clusters, I would make an entire sector devoted to resource gathering. Players get to co-op or solo missions in a sector, which contains at least eight to ten different mini maps. You can also add a few 'open door' (not open world) PvP maps. 'Open Door' = No queue.
Everyone wins.
First of all thank you.
I also like that you adress a whole bunch of quality of life Issue that I have and I loved the other things you said.
personally I Prefer to focus on the much more troubling thing about this system before I start helping out whit quality of life suggestions but those things also need to be said.
if you look at the system as just an extension of the Doff system. quality of life suggestions is all it needs. It's a fine system if you see it as just that and envision it to be experimenting or R&D. the items you get are the result of those experiments, like prototypes, and then logically they could greatly differ in quality. the outcome isn't set because research often turn up unexpected answers. same as the approach in development may not improve on the traditional way but lessons are learned.
If it's noting more than this the system is already quite good. but this is not what it is, is it?
If you are going to make a Crafting system you need full control. I didn't even know why the system rubbed me the wrong way at first. I Instinctively knew it was wrong and what needed to change to make it a crafting system. It was more of a gut feeling that I had but due to me discussing it on the forum here I at some point came to the words tailor made to describe what i wanted. After all a tailor doesn't have a job he's a craftsman. then it hit me along whit some players suggesting that what I wanted was a glorified shop. tailor made thing are made by a tailor and tailors usually have a tailor shop. that's when I knew why my gut-feeling was telling me it was wrong.
when you by cloths form a fashion shop you pick the standard cloths that fits you best.
when you go to a tailor shop the tailor will make a one-of that is perfect for you.
a crafting system should set itself apart from other game systems in exactly the same way.
A dictionary definition of "to craft":
to make or manufacture (an object or objects) with great skill and care.
that's why the system needs to change. when you create a crafting system you imply that the system will allow you create items with great skill and care. that takes a very high degree of control over the outcome because of the great care that is taken in the manufacturing.
the skill part it naturally implies that as you gain more skill (by doing it more often) you will be able to create better items. so you start out low not being able to do much and as you gain levels more options should come available to you. If it was up to me i'd limit the players in the following way for each school:
level 0 start whit Mk 1&2 white items only
level 1 unlock green quality (the first school at this level unlocks an additional slot all are unlocked as normal)
level 2 unlock MK 3 & 4
level 3 unlock a modifier
level 4 unlock MK 5 & 6 (the first school at this level unlocks Deconstruction)
level 6 unlock a modifier
level 7 unlock MK 7 & 8
level 8 unlock blue quality
level 9 unlock MK 9 & 10
level 10 unlock a modifier
level 11 unlock MK 11
level 12 unlock a modifier
level 13 unlock MK 12
level 14 unlock all modifiers
level 15 unlock purple quality (the level cryptic expects the average player to be at)
level 16 unlock the ability to change modifiers
level 17 unlock upgrading to ultraviolet for select items
level 18 unlock crafting trait
level 19 unlock unique visuals
level 20 unlock upgrading to gold for select items and accolade (max level)
EDIT
omg due to writing this I've figured out why the system is the way it is. cryptic started out wrong! they tried starting out of the flavor of R&D and experimenting. because of that they created this system that perfectly mimics that but not a crafting system.
they still need to redo crafting but this time start out from crafting as a functional system and build on that. then later add flavor.
cryptic leave the original crafting system in. sell what you just made as what it is. redo crafting later in the proper way!
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
omg due to writing this I've figured out why the system is the way it is. cryptic started out wrong! they tried starting out of the flavor of R&D and experimenting. because of that they created this system that perfectly mimics that but not a crafting system.
they still need to redo crafting but this time start out from crafting as a functional system and build on that. then later add flavor.
cryptic leave the original crafting system in. sell what you just made as what it is. redo crafting later in the proper way!
While I understand where you are going with this, I don't think it's appropriate. As a ship's captain or a military Admiral, you get people to acquire or make things for you. You normally don't get your hands dirty. And making something like a weapon system for a starship is definately something more than one person can do by themselves. Now the DOff system to make more sense to me, I come to realize that more than one DOff should be assigned to the construction of the unit. And then each worker can add to the chances of getting better quality gear. And it now looks more like you are assigning a team of people to make something in the ships labratories and engineering rooms and less like some crazy old guy trying to build the better mouse trap.
The third category isn't 'particles', it's actually 'tech' which is a good catch-all for everything you mentioned.
One of the things they're trying to do with the crafting update is streamline the items, it hasn't even been officially unveiled yet and you're brainstorming ways to clutter it back up. More types of crafting materials won't help or solve anything.
Sure there are less base materials, but they really aren't streamlining the system itself all that well. With the new setup you have to take the materials, make components, then make the item. Adding the intermediary step of making multiple components, each with a 5 sec timer, each having to be picked up before re-selecting the next assignment to make each component, then making the item out of those components with a timer measured in hours... not streamlined. Even the UI requires a Confirm button to select the project you just selected with the dropdowns, rather than auto-calculating and updating the display as selections of Type and Mk are made.
While the system isn't irredeemable, streamlined isn't something I'd attribute to it at this point.
omg due to writing this I've figured out why the system is the way it is. cryptic started out wrong! they tried starting out of the flavor of R&D and experimenting. because of that they created this system that perfectly mimics that but not a crafting system.
they still need to redo crafting but this time start out from crafting as a functional system and build on that. then later add flavor.
cryptic leave the original crafting system in. sell what you just made as what it is. redo crafting later in the proper way!
That would actually help to explain the variability of the proposed system, but it begs the question: If your doffs are doing the Research and Development of new technologies, why aren't you having them document their findings so that they can be put into practical use? Or, in game terms, once you have made a given item why can't you make more of it rather than diving back into the RNG? I have played another game where the crafting system included a failure chance (though you could actually designate every aspect of what you were trying to make), but that chance of failure decreased as you made more of the item regardless of quality. Applied to this system, making a Random Covariant Shield Array Mk XII would improve your chances of higher qualities on all future attempts.
Given what is shown in screenshots by another (rather thorough) Tribble tester...
...it appears that a max level (Rank 20/2,070,000 XP) crafter making a Random Covariant Shield Array Mk XII with a Rare Shield Distribution Officer only has a 10% chance of Very Rare and a 24% chance of Rare... meaning at max level using a Rare doff you still have about a 2 in 3 shot at getting something lower quality than the doff making it.
[EDIT] I am aware that the example I linked only has Common, Uncommon, Rare and Very Rare possibilities... but there are six quality types in STO and it fit Random so very well I couldn't pass it up.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
While I understand where you are going with this, I don't think it's appropriate. As a ship's captain or a military Admiral, you get people to acquire or make things for you. You normally don't get your hands dirty. And making something like a weapon system for a starship is definately something more than one person can do by themselves. Now the DOff system to make more sense to me, I come to realize that more than one DOff should be assigned to the construction of the unit. And then each worker can add to the chances of getting better quality gear. And it now looks more like you are assigning a team of people to make something in the ships labratories and engineering rooms and less like some crazy old guy trying to build the better mouse trap.
But these are just my thoughts....
that was never where i was going. by comparing it to a tailor i meant giving the assignment to a craftsman and not sewing the cloths myself.
where a tailor wold work to create something on my precise instructions the outcome of an R&D project is considerably less certain.
the system they have is a nice reward structure that is bound to the Doff system but it's not a crafting system.
cryptic should have started whit what a crafting system should functionally do and sprinkle flavor on top of it. but they seem to have started from the flavor aspect. probably intending to make a crafting system but ended up whit something that's not.
the system functionally doesn't do what a crafting system should do!
THE NEW CRAFTING SYSTEM IS TERRA-BAD First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
that was never where i was going. by comparing it to a tailor i meant giving the assignment to a craftsman and not sewing the cloths myself.
where a tailor wold work to create something on my precise instructions the outcome of an R&D project is considerably less certain.
the system they have is a nice reward structure that is bound to the Doff system but it's not a crafting system.
cryptic should have started whit what a crafting system should functionally do and sprinkle flavor on top of it. but they seem to have started from the flavor aspect. probably intending to make a crafting system but ended up whit something that's not.
the system functionally doesn't do what a crafting system should do!
I understand. I said that in my post too. I was just pointing out that I think it falls short on what it should be. R&D should be a group effort. Not a single person effort. It takes a team of people to design and build something like a weapons system. Or to take your tailor example, A clothing designer made the pattern for the clothes, a factory made cloth used, and the tailor just applied your dimensions to the pattern and created the outfit from the material you payed for.
The new system has you acquiring the base materail to turn into the components (the cloth) and then you have another DOff takes those components to make a beam of a certain mark level and energy type (pattern) of your choice. And like a tailor, you don't know how good this outfit will be untill he is finished. Unlike the tailor though, the DOff is not consistant in his quality. But even so, Tailors can have off days and just not get things right, or the cloth is not the right quality or has unforseen flaws. Many things can go wrong. ANd they are trying to replicate this in this new system. I do agree that they are doing it in a flawed manner.
I think that the quality consistancy could be changed by letting lower qualities dropping off, and allowing the DOff to have a couple more DOff's to be added to improve the chances for the higher end of quality. A Rare should have no chance to make a common or uncommon peice of gear at Level 15, and greatly reduced chances at you go down the level.
Again just my thoughts and just a bit disjointed right now. I plan I writing up a blog about crafting and my thoughts to coelesce my thoughts. I hope that you and others will take a look once I have it done.
Hey everyone! Check out AdjudicatorHawk's latest Dev Blog on the Crafting Update, featuring all sorts of wonderful gear and traits you can get! Check out the blog here.
Just read the new blog about crafting "Crafting system part 2."
1. I feel concerned. The blog was written quite hastily, and with poor editing. There are some good ideas here, but if season 9.5 is implemented with the same "thoroughness" as the blog was written...
2. How does one activate a "skill?" It was written as though I would immediately know the answer. I've been playing for over a year, and I have no clue. Does this mean it activates when I fire a beam or cannon weapon? I echo previous posters. I would rather see this come out well in season 10 than poorly planned / executed in season 9.5.
"Beams
On activating Beam skill, gain 2% Beam damage for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Cannons
On activating Cannon skill, gain +1 Turn Rate, +1 Inertia for 20 sec. Stacks x3"
3. What is a gea?
" [Run] This mod increases the run speed of the owner by 20%.
gea"
Cryptic, you have good people and some nice ideas. Please take your time and give us something that works. You folks as a team are making some nice improvements in the game, since the change in leadership. Please continue, by releasing the crafting update when it is ready.;)
More over those changes to the Ages set I assume are retroactive or are you gonna TRIBBLE more players who spent loads crafting those items over as well.
An upgrade would be one thing, expecting them to improve the current versions would just be silly.
2. How does one activate a "skill?" It was written as though I would immediately know the answer. I've been playing for over a year, and I have no clue. Does this mean it activates when I fire a beam or cannon weapon?
I don't get this - why this is a question. Sure, Hawk could have said Beam Ability instead of Beam Skill...but uh...seriously, how is this even a question other than to be pedantic - what else would it be?
I'm liking what I see of the updated Aegis set. And I predict that [Over] and [Rapid] mods will be highly sought after. One other thing I've noticed is that most everything seems to benefit cruisers and science ships the most.
Questions:
1) Once unlocked do the crafting traits go into our pool of selectable traits or are they like "Well Travelled" from Tour and always on?
2) Why plasma for the torpedo? Not complaining, just curious.
3) If a mod like [Over] or [Rapid] procs can they activate when another beam or cannon skill is active?
"Yo dawg! I heard you like Beam Overload, so we put an overload in your overload..."
1) Once unlocked to the crafting traits go into our pool of selectable traits or are they like "Well Travelled" from Tour and always on?
Can't remember if it was a dev post or Geko in a podcast that said they were personal traits, so they were selected from that pool. Think it was a podcast.
3) If a mod like [Over] or [Rapid] procs can they activate when another beam or cannon skill is active?
Yep, curious about how those will interact if the ability is already in play or affect the ability to run an ability. Same would go for the Turret Barrage and the Singularity Overcharge, eh?
- New cannon proc is mostly useless for me, as if i'm using cannons i'll already have rapid fire or scatter volley active most of the time, also no idea how they will interact. Can I have a rapid fire scatter volley cannon?
- Why no neat tactical console?
- Science powers don't crit, when they did it broke PvP, so how exactly is that going to work?
- Beam and cannon 'traits' are just bleh. Only ship I would ever use the beam trait on is a science vessel with built in subsystem targeting and the cannon one might be useful on a slow battlecruiser such as the bortas but even then they are unlikely to be worth the trouble. Too nitch of a reward for something as time consuming as getting a crafting school to rank 15 IMHO.
- Roll. Back. The. Doff. UI. Please. We are part of the PC master race and do not take kindly to crappy mobile implementations to our games. You want to create a STO doff/R&D cow clicker mobile game feel free, just don't destroy an existing high quality part of STO in the process.
You already decided what crafting is going to look like,you don't want or "need" our approval or feedback.
I know right? It's almost as if they're the developers of the game :rolleyes:
Joking aside, the new Blog did catch my attention but as ever, I feel left with more questions than answers.
So there's a 360-polaron Beam you can make - can you make 360 versions of all energy types?
So you can make wide-arc AP cannons - can you make wide-arc cannons of all energy types, etc etc. Same for the Torpedo launcher you showed off, and the consoles.
The Aegis is another thing that I felt needed more explanation. Glad to see that it's going to be a Mk XII item, but seeing as I already grinded the old system to get it, will my old sets get upgraded to the new stats or will I be expected to grind my behind off again to get the newer set?
As for the TR-116 - Well, that's just awesome. Red Matter Capacitor while you're at it?
So yeah. Intrigued but ultimately not excited just yet.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
So you are adding unique modifiers to crafted gear but what's the point if lets say you want the arc cannons but you are limited to one per ship? Again, what's the point?
So there's a 360-polaron Beam you can make - can you make 360 versions of all energy types?
So you can make wide-arc AP cannons - can you make wide-arc cannons of all energy types, etc etc. Same for the Torpedo launcher you showed off, and the consoles.
You can make 360 beams of each of the standard energy types. Same with the 90 DHCs. You can only equip a single 360 beam though, can't equip multiples or multiple varieties. Same for the 90 DHCs.
Plasma Torp was the only one there...
Consoles were the only ones there...
Might see more as time goes along, but that's what's been on Tribble so far.
You can make 360 beams of each of the standard energy types. Same with the 90 DHCs. You can only equip a single 360 beam though, can't equip multiples or multiple varieties. Same for the 90 DHCs.
Plasma Torp was the only one there...
Consoles were the only ones there...
Might see more as time goes along, but that's what's been on Tribble so far.
Ah, good. The beams thing makes sense - the AP one is tremendously popular.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Well, lets see. First, why is this dev blog dated the 25th? And buried a few items behind current?
Second, no mention in the blog about the beam turret and wide arc duel cannons being one of that weapon type per ship, instead of one per energy weapon type, like it could be implied. I assume that it is still one per weapon type, so only one beam turret of any energy type for instance?
Nothing about the Exotic particle field exciter?
Also about both the exciter and the RCS console, the when healed, does that count if we heal ourselves, or only if someone else does it?
TR-116B, best borg weapon in the game I think. Only thing worth crafting at this point for me.
Traits, hmmm, on the beam and cannons, is it even possible to activate three beam or cannon skills in 20 seconds? I mean global cooldown is 15 seconds, and that can't be reduced so I don't think so. As for the rest, power creep much?
Modifiers, again with the chance? So, we have a chance to get rare materials to craft with. We have a chance to get purple. And now we have a chance to get over powered mods.
You know, I should have thought of this earlier, and even so, I know that you probably wouldn't have done anything, but for what it is worth, my ideas on how to make a better crafting system than this and still have your money sinks. These are based on other crafting systems I've seen in the past in other games.
Idea one. Mostly the same, but the rarity of the item being crafted is totally dependent on the skill of the crafter, plus the doffs used. So a low level crafter can craft Mark XII, but could only manage white, for instance. But a max level crafter can craft purple items. Here is the dilithium sink. That beginning level crafter can craft purple level items if he pays more dilithium. The max level crafter can get a purple level item with one of the special mods only if he pays some dilithium. This is over the dilithium in the materials. This way, the crafter knows what he is getting before hand, no gambling, and you get dilithium sales from everyone wanting it now, and everyone wanting these overpowered items.
Idea two. Mostly the same, but the level of the crafter determines how many items one needs for an item. So a beginner level crafter can craft a Mark XII item, and can choose the rarity, but for Mark XII purple, he would need to shovel out say 4 times the amount a max level crafter would. But if he pays enough dilithium, the beginning crafter can use less materials, including less rare items. A max level crafter could craft a Mark XII item with not additional dilithium besides what is in the materials, but if he pays more, he can also skip the rare materials. Again, crafters get what they want, no gambling, and you get a dilithium sink.
Anyway, my top level feedback, please see the tribble patch notes threads for more specific feed back on the version on Tribble right now.
FAW cool down duration and that beam trait are still incompatible, you will never get more then 1 stack. on the other hand cloakers can charge up BO damage in an exploity way, by cycling it 3 times wile cloaked before attacking.
FAW cool down duration and that beam trait are still incompatible, you will never get more then 1 stack. on the other hand cloakers can charge up BO damage in an exploity way, by cycling it 3 times wile cloaked before attacking.
Yeah maybe the romulan republic characters that have mostly reman crew for the long cloak ambush long enough to do that but with that tactical disabling function they put in months ago it prevents you from just stacking them one on top of the other.
Although would be nice if KDF had something to improve their situation of not being on par where they can't extend their cloak ambush.
Seems like if you aren't using Arc right now as well that the website is totally jacked up.
Comments
So in otherwords, this boils down to the crafting system not being for casual players at all. THis will only ever be for those players that are either very hardcore or have the time to manipulate the Exchange. I will applaud those players, but I feel that this crafting system will be like the rep system is to me. Something I do when I have nothing else to accomplish. And at over 3000 hours to comeplet it, I will never get it done.
They need to rethink thier numbers if they want the majority of players to get invovlved in this. Either drop the numbers down or, better yet, up the numbers from making stuff.
Make mark XII worth 6400 point, Mark XI 3200, Mark X 1600, Mark VIII 800, Mark VI 400, Mark IV 200 and Mark II 100. THis would make progressing through the levels a little faster at the beginning, but gaining reasonable amount of steam as you try higher and higher gear.
Just thoughts as I keep trying the system on my limited play schedule. But unless they change this progression pace and reduce or remove the dilithium cost, I think the 'revamp' will flop. And I am afraid it might even drive some poeple who use crafting as a playstyle to completely abandon the game. Not a good move IMHO.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
The third category isn't 'particles', it's actually 'tech' which is a good catch-all for everything you mentioned.
One of the things they're trying to do with the crafting update is streamline the items, it hasn't even been officially unveiled yet and you're brainstorming ways to clutter it back up. More types of crafting materials won't help or solve anything.
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
:eek:
This leaves little incentive to start playing again.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
That's even longer than the Commendation time. Why is the gameplay being stretched out like this???
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
And after four and a half years, I haven't even finished that!
I have seven chars, and only one has reached the highest commendation level of anything (diplo, in this case).
144 days of continuous hourlies is not my thing. Between the constant rep and special events, there's no chance for downtime (I know, keeping people engaged brings in money). Not to mention grinding is not my thing either. I do the reps, if only to get the rewards at the end. But after the first couple of chars, I slow down. Some chars haven't finished Omega yet.
First of all thank you.
I also like that you adress a whole bunch of quality of life Issue that I have and I loved the other things you said.
personally I Prefer to focus on the much more troubling thing about this system before I start helping out whit quality of life suggestions but those things also need to be said.
if you look at the system as just an extension of the Doff system. quality of life suggestions is all it needs. It's a fine system if you see it as just that and envision it to be experimenting or R&D. the items you get are the result of those experiments, like prototypes, and then logically they could greatly differ in quality. the outcome isn't set because research often turn up unexpected answers. same as the approach in development may not improve on the traditional way but lessons are learned.
If it's noting more than this the system is already quite good. but this is not what it is, is it?
If you are going to make a Crafting system you need full control. I didn't even know why the system rubbed me the wrong way at first. I Instinctively knew it was wrong and what needed to change to make it a crafting system. It was more of a gut feeling that I had but due to me discussing it on the forum here I at some point came to the words tailor made to describe what i wanted. After all a tailor doesn't have a job he's a craftsman. then it hit me along whit some players suggesting that what I wanted was a glorified shop. tailor made thing are made by a tailor and tailors usually have a tailor shop. that's when I knew why my gut-feeling was telling me it was wrong.
when you by cloths form a fashion shop you pick the standard cloths that fits you best.
when you go to a tailor shop the tailor will make a one-of that is perfect for you.
a crafting system should set itself apart from other game systems in exactly the same way.
A dictionary definition of "to craft":
to make or manufacture (an object or objects) with great skill and care.
that's why the system needs to change. when you create a crafting system you imply that the system will allow you create items with great skill and care. that takes a very high degree of control over the outcome because of the great care that is taken in the manufacturing.
the skill part it naturally implies that as you gain more skill (by doing it more often) you will be able to create better items. so you start out low not being able to do much and as you gain levels more options should come available to you. If it was up to me i'd limit the players in the following way for each school:
level 0 start whit Mk 1&2 white items only
level 1 unlock green quality (the first school at this level unlocks an additional slot all are unlocked as normal)
level 2 unlock MK 3 & 4
level 3 unlock a modifier
level 4 unlock MK 5 & 6 (the first school at this level unlocks Deconstruction)
level 6 unlock a modifier
level 7 unlock MK 7 & 8
level 8 unlock blue quality
level 9 unlock MK 9 & 10
level 10 unlock a modifier
level 11 unlock MK 11
level 12 unlock a modifier
level 13 unlock MK 12
level 14 unlock all modifiers
level 15 unlock purple quality (the level cryptic expects the average player to be at)
level 16 unlock the ability to change modifiers
level 17 unlock upgrading to ultraviolet for select items
level 18 unlock crafting trait
level 19 unlock unique visuals
level 20 unlock upgrading to gold for select items and accolade (max level)
EDIT
omg due to writing this I've figured out why the system is the way it is. cryptic started out wrong! they tried starting out of the flavor of R&D and experimenting. because of that they created this system that perfectly mimics that but not a crafting system.
they still need to redo crafting but this time start out from crafting as a functional system and build on that. then later add flavor.
cryptic leave the original crafting system in. sell what you just made as what it is. redo crafting later in the proper way!
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
While I understand where you are going with this, I don't think it's appropriate. As a ship's captain or a military Admiral, you get people to acquire or make things for you. You normally don't get your hands dirty. And making something like a weapon system for a starship is definately something more than one person can do by themselves. Now the DOff system to make more sense to me, I come to realize that more than one DOff should be assigned to the construction of the unit. And then each worker can add to the chances of getting better quality gear. And it now looks more like you are assigning a team of people to make something in the ships labratories and engineering rooms and less like some crazy old guy trying to build the better mouse trap.
But these are just my thoughts....
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Sure there are less base materials, but they really aren't streamlining the system itself all that well. With the new setup you have to take the materials, make components, then make the item. Adding the intermediary step of making multiple components, each with a 5 sec timer, each having to be picked up before re-selecting the next assignment to make each component, then making the item out of those components with a timer measured in hours... not streamlined. Even the UI requires a Confirm button to select the project you just selected with the dropdowns, rather than auto-calculating and updating the display as selections of Type and Mk are made.
While the system isn't irredeemable, streamlined isn't something I'd attribute to it at this point.
That would actually help to explain the variability of the proposed system, but it begs the question: If your doffs are doing the Research and Development of new technologies, why aren't you having them document their findings so that they can be put into practical use? Or, in game terms, once you have made a given item why can't you make more of it rather than diving back into the RNG? I have played another game where the crafting system included a failure chance (though you could actually designate every aspect of what you were trying to make), but that chance of failure decreased as you made more of the item regardless of quality. Applied to this system, making a Random Covariant Shield Array Mk XII would improve your chances of higher qualities on all future attempts.
Given what is shown in screenshots by another (rather thorough) Tribble tester... ...it appears that a max level (Rank 20/2,070,000 XP) crafter making a Random Covariant Shield Array Mk XII with a Rare Shield Distribution Officer only has a 10% chance of Very Rare and a 24% chance of Rare... meaning at max level using a Rare doff you still have about a 2 in 3 shot at getting something lower quality than the doff making it.
[EDIT] I am aware that the example I linked only has Common, Uncommon, Rare and Very Rare possibilities... but there are six quality types in STO and it fit Random so very well I couldn't pass it up.
that was never where i was going. by comparing it to a tailor i meant giving the assignment to a craftsman and not sewing the cloths myself.
where a tailor wold work to create something on my precise instructions the outcome of an R&D project is considerably less certain.
the system they have is a nice reward structure that is bound to the Doff system but it's not a crafting system.
cryptic should have started whit what a crafting system should functionally do and sprinkle flavor on top of it. but they seem to have started from the flavor aspect. probably intending to make a crafting system but ended up whit something that's not.
the system functionally doesn't do what a crafting system should do!
First of all it's not even a crafting system! It's just a dumb game system that's nothing more than a glorified slots machine.
second the "special items" you hope will be the saving the saving grace are messed up to.
I understand. I said that in my post too. I was just pointing out that I think it falls short on what it should be. R&D should be a group effort. Not a single person effort. It takes a team of people to design and build something like a weapons system. Or to take your tailor example, A clothing designer made the pattern for the clothes, a factory made cloth used, and the tailor just applied your dimensions to the pattern and created the outfit from the material you payed for.
The new system has you acquiring the base materail to turn into the components (the cloth) and then you have another DOff takes those components to make a beam of a certain mark level and energy type (pattern) of your choice. And like a tailor, you don't know how good this outfit will be untill he is finished. Unlike the tailor though, the DOff is not consistant in his quality. But even so, Tailors can have off days and just not get things right, or the cloth is not the right quality or has unforseen flaws. Many things can go wrong. ANd they are trying to replicate this in this new system. I do agree that they are doing it in a flawed manner.
I think that the quality consistancy could be changed by letting lower qualities dropping off, and allowing the DOff to have a couple more DOff's to be added to improve the chances for the higher end of quality. A Rare should have no chance to make a common or uncommon peice of gear at Level 15, and greatly reduced chances at you go down the level.
Again just my thoughts and just a bit disjointed right now. I plan I writing up a blog about crafting and my thoughts to coelesce my thoughts. I hope that you and others will take a look once I have it done.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
~LaughingTrendy
1. I take it that, given the rules, it will be possible to make an Ultra-Rare Aegis set?
2. What about current Aegis sets? Will we be able to upgrade them?
Curious about that as well...
1. I feel concerned. The blog was written quite hastily, and with poor editing. There are some good ideas here, but if season 9.5 is implemented with the same "thoroughness" as the blog was written...
2. How does one activate a "skill?" It was written as though I would immediately know the answer. I've been playing for over a year, and I have no clue. Does this mean it activates when I fire a beam or cannon weapon? I echo previous posters. I would rather see this come out well in season 10 than poorly planned / executed in season 9.5.
"Beams
On activating Beam skill, gain 2% Beam damage for 20 sec. Stacks x3.
Cannons
On activating Cannon skill, gain +1 Turn Rate, +1 Inertia for 20 sec. Stacks x3"
3. What is a gea?
" [Run] This mod increases the run speed of the owner by 20%.
gea"
Cryptic, you have good people and some nice ideas. Please take your time and give us something that works. You folks as a team are making some nice improvements in the game, since the change in leadership. Please continue, by releasing the crafting update when it is ready.;)
http://community.arcgames.com/en/news/star-trek-online/detail/6001993-crafting-systems-part-2
An upgrade would be one thing, expecting them to improve the current versions would just be silly.
I don't get this - why this is a question. Sure, Hawk could have said Beam Ability instead of Beam Skill...but uh...seriously, how is this even a question other than to be pedantic - what else would it be?
Questions:
1) Once unlocked do the crafting traits go into our pool of selectable traits or are they like "Well Travelled" from Tour and always on?
2) Why plasma for the torpedo? Not complaining, just curious.
3) If a mod like [Over] or [Rapid] procs can they activate when another beam or cannon skill is active?
"Yo dawg! I heard you like Beam Overload, so we put an overload in your overload..."
Can't remember if it was a dev post or Geko in a podcast that said they were personal traits, so they were selected from that pool. Think it was a podcast.
Heh, they should have done plasma clouds from photon torps.
Yep, curious about how those will interact if the ability is already in play or affect the ability to run an ability. Same would go for the Turret Barrage and the Singularity Overcharge, eh?
- Why no neat tactical console?
- Science powers don't crit, when they did it broke PvP, so how exactly is that going to work?
- Beam and cannon 'traits' are just bleh. Only ship I would ever use the beam trait on is a science vessel with built in subsystem targeting and the cannon one might be useful on a slow battlecruiser such as the bortas but even then they are unlikely to be worth the trouble. Too nitch of a reward for something as time consuming as getting a crafting school to rank 15 IMHO.
- Roll. Back. The. Doff. UI. Please. We are part of the PC master race and do not take kindly to crappy mobile implementations to our games. You want to create a STO doff/R&D cow clicker mobile game feel free, just don't destroy an existing high quality part of STO in the process.
I know right? It's almost as if they're the developers of the game :rolleyes:
Joking aside, the new Blog did catch my attention but as ever, I feel left with more questions than answers.
So there's a 360-polaron Beam you can make - can you make 360 versions of all energy types?
So you can make wide-arc AP cannons - can you make wide-arc cannons of all energy types, etc etc. Same for the Torpedo launcher you showed off, and the consoles.
The Aegis is another thing that I felt needed more explanation. Glad to see that it's going to be a Mk XII item, but seeing as I already grinded the old system to get it, will my old sets get upgraded to the new stats or will I be expected to grind my behind off again to get the newer set?
As for the TR-116 - Well, that's just awesome. Red Matter Capacitor while you're at it?
So yeah. Intrigued but ultimately not excited just yet.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Q
You can make 360 beams of each of the standard energy types. Same with the 90 DHCs. You can only equip a single 360 beam though, can't equip multiples or multiple varieties. Same for the 90 DHCs.
Plasma Torp was the only one there...
Consoles were the only ones there...
Might see more as time goes along, but that's what's been on Tribble so far.
Ah, good. The beams thing makes sense - the AP one is tremendously popular.
Second, no mention in the blog about the beam turret and wide arc duel cannons being one of that weapon type per ship, instead of one per energy weapon type, like it could be implied. I assume that it is still one per weapon type, so only one beam turret of any energy type for instance?
Nothing about the Exotic particle field exciter?
Also about both the exciter and the RCS console, the when healed, does that count if we heal ourselves, or only if someone else does it?
TR-116B, best borg weapon in the game I think. Only thing worth crafting at this point for me.
Traits, hmmm, on the beam and cannons, is it even possible to activate three beam or cannon skills in 20 seconds? I mean global cooldown is 15 seconds, and that can't be reduced so I don't think so. As for the rest, power creep much?
Modifiers, again with the chance? So, we have a chance to get rare materials to craft with. We have a chance to get purple. And now we have a chance to get over powered mods.
You know, I should have thought of this earlier, and even so, I know that you probably wouldn't have done anything, but for what it is worth, my ideas on how to make a better crafting system than this and still have your money sinks. These are based on other crafting systems I've seen in the past in other games.
Idea one. Mostly the same, but the rarity of the item being crafted is totally dependent on the skill of the crafter, plus the doffs used. So a low level crafter can craft Mark XII, but could only manage white, for instance. But a max level crafter can craft purple items. Here is the dilithium sink. That beginning level crafter can craft purple level items if he pays more dilithium. The max level crafter can get a purple level item with one of the special mods only if he pays some dilithium. This is over the dilithium in the materials. This way, the crafter knows what he is getting before hand, no gambling, and you get dilithium sales from everyone wanting it now, and everyone wanting these overpowered items.
Idea two. Mostly the same, but the level of the crafter determines how many items one needs for an item. So a beginner level crafter can craft a Mark XII item, and can choose the rarity, but for Mark XII purple, he would need to shovel out say 4 times the amount a max level crafter would. But if he pays enough dilithium, the beginning crafter can use less materials, including less rare items. A max level crafter could craft a Mark XII item with not additional dilithium besides what is in the materials, but if he pays more, he can also skip the rare materials. Again, crafters get what they want, no gambling, and you get a dilithium sink.
Anyway, my top level feedback, please see the tribble patch notes threads for more specific feed back on the version on Tribble right now.
Nouveau riche LTS member
Yeah maybe the romulan republic characters that have mostly reman crew for the long cloak ambush long enough to do that but with that tactical disabling function they put in months ago it prevents you from just stacking them one on top of the other.
Although would be nice if KDF had something to improve their situation of not being on par where they can't extend their cloak ambush.
Seems like if you aren't using Arc right now as well that the website is totally jacked up.