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Official Discussion Thread: Season 9.5 Crafting Update

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  • centaurianalphacentaurianalpha Member Posts: 1,150 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    If I read the blog correctly, only ground weapons can be crafted, which by definition excludes other ground gear such as armor, shields, consumables. And in the description of the different "schools" of crafting, we are once again faced with an overcomplicated and less-than-satisfying career path. More logical would have been to retain the categories already extant at Memory Alpha (Physical Science, Energy, General, Information Tech, etc.). So apparently there is lo longer any relevant linkage between Memory Alpha and crafting... :mad:
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  • jellico1jellico1 Member Posts: 2,719
    edited June 2014
    In order to make this acceptble and fun to the players

    The Doff gamble should make items better and never worse

    once a item is crafted a blueprint of the item should be account wide for that player

    This way everyone would i think embrace the new system

    As it is ...........:(
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  • possiblyboredpossiblybored Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    What concerns me most about the new crafting system is the lack of efficient ways to gather crafting materials.

    The nebulas were very reliable places to gather crafting materials relatively quickly. It doesn't take long at all to scan through anomalies and build up a great stash.

    If you're going to get rid of this mechanic, please consider adding it somewhere else in the game for those of us who like to craft but don't have time to play missions to get the odd particle here and there. Part of the appeal of this game to me is that I don't really have to play endless hours of combat just to get what I want, and getting rid of my source of materials takes out a big chunk of fun for me.

    Not everybody who plays this game plays it for the unending combat opportunities.
  • f3irfekf3irfek Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    i want to know what this means for anyone who already can craft all items in the old system
    does this mean i need to start again and if that so why should i it took long enough the first bloody time
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    What concerns me most about the new crafting system is the lack of efficient ways to gather crafting materials.

    The nebulas were very reliable places to gather crafting materials relatively quickly. It doesn't take long at all to scan through anomalies and build up a great stash.

    If you're going to get rid of this mechanic, please consider adding it somewhere else in the game for those of us who like to craft but don't have time to play missions to get the odd particle here and there. Part of the appeal of this game to me is that I don't really have to play endless hours of combat just to get what I want, and getting rid of my source of materials takes out a big chunk of fun for me.

    Not everybody who plays this game plays it for the unending combat opportunities.
    Story missions and sector patrol missions also have them. You don't even have to finish the missions....
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  • antzudanantzudan Member Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    New Traits is interesting.

    As long as the Mk XII items aren't character bound this will also make having alts way less time consuming so that's good too.
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    f3irfek wrote: »
    i want to know what this means for anyone who already can craft all items in the old system
    does this mean i need to start again and if that so why should i it took long enough the first bloody time

    So far, mixed communication. The podcast has a comment that the systems are unrelated and the old system was easy to max, so there wouldn't be a bonus for prior crafting XP. Then, I've seen other dev posts stating that they were still working out exactly what bonuses would be provided, but that they did want to give you something for your prior efforts. We'll see.
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    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
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  • adwynythadwynyth Member Posts: 369 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Okay, so since the biggest and best place to get materials (Exploration Clusters) is going away at the time when they'll become most useful, how are we supposed to farm materials?

    Queued events is a non-starter except for the Very Rare stuff. Patrol missions can only be done once each (and KDF and Klingulans need not apply). Episodes are a bit long to throw us into just for a few mats.

    So...in what way can we get materials in quantity that doesn't involve lots of pointless grinding on missions we've done a thousand times?

    (At least the exploration cluster missions are quick. So grinding those, or zipping into the map and scanning, is no big deal.)
  • miroexinmiroexin Member Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    lordosiris wrote: »
    Do we get to keep our old crafting points? I mean this is the second time the chance the crafting system, last time I had to start over, what about this time?

    The answer from Mr. Al Rivera is that the old crafting system is so easy that there is no need to give us something.
    After 21 crafting assignments and burning 1575 dil to bypass 2h building time to build MK II dual cannon I got:
    0, yes zero very rare AP MK II dual canons
    p.s. I will execute my rare Jam’hadar who is serving under me for 1,5 years for incompetence it’s just a MK II dual canon, he is Energy Weapons Officer not a Doctor.
  • sirokksirokk Member Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    That's really not why. I've seen this conspiratorial thought creep up in just about every post on materials. They're removed because they drastically lower the quality of the game for new players who encounter them without knowing "Oh, those missions are 'special'" - and because they drastically increase the game's install size for new players, which prevents hundreds of players each month from even trying out the game in the first place.

    Let's be honest, if these missions were actually fixed and maintained it would increase the value of the game (like the ones that the BOffs are invisible but are visible on the map overview when you beam down to a planet.) But Cryptic hasn't been willing to spent time to do this, so they'd rather cut their losses and take the exploration mission out and done with it.

    Also maybe you need to present the missions in a fashion that is clearer, not sure how, you go to an exploration cluster to explore, find a planet, go through the mission, done. What's confusing about that?

    The games install size a poor excuse! You have minimum specifications for the game, it's on the player to make sure that they have a hard drive large enough. If you are referring to the time to update when patching - hire a external programmer on contract to make a better updater, something like 'rsync' that can update portions of files.

    Star Trek is about exploration and by removing the exploration missions (no matter how bad some of them may be) you are devaluing the game.

    If there is more to what you said that needs explanation, please elaborate. Thanks.
    Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home'
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  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    sherac wrote: »
    I can't even come up with a good response for this, because it's the most incredible BS I've ever heard in my life. I've seen a lot of nonsense statements in my 20 or so years on the Internet, but yours just topped the cake.

    Removing content because it increases the game's install size? You are either currently on some hard drugs or have taken so many hard drugs in your life that your brain is fried. Anyone that buys into this line of incredible and outright hilarious nonsense needs their heads' checked. Or you're simply repeating what the developers chose to do and why and if this is the true reason behind removing content... boy is PW in trouble. I just might post this on Reddit, because dayum... this is some high quality comedy.

    Are you kidding me?

    You just became a laughing stock.
    This is why devs never want to come to the forums of their MMO games.

    This is why valuable input is skipped over.

    This is why we can't have nice things.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    sherac wrote: »
    It's quite possibly the most pathetic excuse for changing a game that I've ever heard in my entire life - 31 years of gaming.
    It doesn't matter. Spewing childish insults like that don't provide any good feedback at all, and just prompt an ignore from the devs, risking valuable feedback from the rest of us being ignored in the process. On top of that, some of us are just sick of hearing the whining from entitled players who can't grasp the reasoning that the devs have for what they do.

    I've heard of quite a few instances of people not downloading a game because of the game's size. Even if I haven't, I can't see why it would be so far fetched. Not everyone has the bandwidth nor the hard drive space for games like this.

    Your reasons are irrelevant. Posts like that does nothing but lower the quality of this message board.
  • heraldofmanweheraldofmanwe Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Ding ding ding!

    The system isn't designed to be a "personal progression" system like Reputations - it's intended to facilitate trade and commerce between players who enjoy that type of gameplay. It's possible to use it as a personal progression system, but it won't be as efficient at that as Rep would be.


    If this is the case, can we get a way to get Mark XII very rare phasers and Quantum Torpedoes that is part of what you call "personal progression" instead of fleets and the new crafting?

    P.S. Giving us the ability to get yellow phasers from 8472 rep, instead of green ones, would work great. I like to have my federation characters use weapons that look like the weapons from the show.
  • sirokksirokk Member Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Hold on!

    So you are saying its okay for Cryptic to turn the game to a slash WIndows 8 metro interface with grinding and time gate mechanics that works well with a tablet either Iphone or Android with less content. Only because a file size is to big to download.

    Oh, while we are at it, strip aspects of Star Trek from Star Trek Online.


    Do you realize a little of higher end MMO's or games are huge already compared to STO? People play that.

    You don't make any sense and should be on the same boat with Hawk.

    In orangeitis' defense, the criticism was on the way that sherac had expressed himself, not what he was saying.

    We are all passionate about Star Trek and don't want to see this game to be devalued from the removal of it's exploration mission content, even if that content may not be very good.
    Star Trek Battles Channel - Play Star Trek like they did in the series!Avatar: pinterest-com/pin/14003448816884219Are you sure it isn't time for a "colorful metaphor"? --Spock in 'The Voyage Home'
    SCE ADVISORY NOTICE: Improper Impulse Engine maintenance can result in REAR THRUSTER LEAKAGE. ALWAYS have your work inspected by another qualified officer.
  • druhindruhin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    If you bought a computer within the last five to eight years, you have at least a 1.5 terabyte hard drive. Both of my desktops computers have 2 terabytes.

    "Star Trek: Online" takes up around 7 gig.

    Tablets are very primitive.

    I think the bigger issue, is that many ISPs (especially within the US), have a cap on how much you are allowed to download each month. A ridiculous restriction, in an increasingly online-connected world. I fail to see how Cryptic's removal of the Exploration Clusters, would suddenly cause such a drastic reduction in game filesize.

    The truth of the matter is:

    Cryptic couldn't bring themselves to properly update the games Exploration system, so they chose to remove it entirely.

    More than likely, someone such as CaptGeko, will comment that it is being revamped, and intended for release at a later date. Much like Club 47, Secondary Deflectors etc. In short, Exploration is gone post-Season 9.5, and most likely won't return. Atleast, not without attaching a hefty monetization fee to it.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    If you bought a computer within the last five to eight years, you have at least a 1.5 terabyte hard drive. Both of my desktops computers have 2 terabytes.

    "Star Trek: Online" takes up around 7 gig.

    Tablets are very primitive.

    The STO folder is around 17.6 GB. Probably larger for some folks...I think I left on-demand patching on with my last reinstall - so some of the stuff probably isn't there yet.

    We've got X2 coming, which is only going to make that larger...

    Though I don't believe it's necessary, perhaps if Cryptic were to put some hard numbers behind how much space is going to be saved - it could better help folks put into perspective how much space it is taking up. Then again, if it is just a cover story and it's only a wee bit...that would come out as well, eh?
  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,336 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    druhin wrote: »
    I think the bigger issue, is that many ISPs (especially within the US), have a cap on how much you are allowed to download each month. A ridiculous restriction, in an increasingly online-connected world. I fail to see how Cryptic's removal of the Exploration Clusters, would suddenly cause such a drastic reduction in game filesize.

    The truth of the matter is:

    Cryptic couldn't bring themselves to properly update the games Exploration system, so they chose to remove it entirely.

    More than likely, someone such as CaptGeko, will comment that it is being revamped, and intended for release at a later date. Much like Club 47, Secondary Deflectors etc. In short, Exploration is gone post-Season 9.5, and most likely won't return. Atleast, not without attaching a hefty monetization fee to it.

    Secondary deflectors might still come with Season 9.5 since it was mentioned that the new crafting system will allow players to craft them.

    Remember that the developers also have X2 that they are working on, so Club 47 isn't really that high of a priority.

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  • heraldofmanweheraldofmanwe Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    If you bought a computer within the last five to eight years, you have at least a 1.5 terabyte hard drive. Both of my desktops computers have 2 terabytes.

    "Star Trek: Online" takes up around 7 gig.

    Tablets are very primitive.


    Some of us with SSDs in laptops actually do feel the strain of space. 128G hard drives are in some pretty expensive machines.
  • atlmyklatlmykl Member Posts: 305 Arc User1
    edited June 2014
    If I remember they said the file size was important because the larger the file..the longer the download...the less likely someone will try out the game.

    As for the mods starting to put some smack down, I think it is way over due. The negativity, entitlement, conspiracy theories and overall whininess of SOME of the posters is out of hand. It can be hard finding a post with constructive critisim when certain poster are falling over themselves to out do the lastest insult.
  • pwecaptainsmirkpwecaptainsmirk Member Posts: 1,167 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    atlmykl wrote: »
    If I remember they said the file size was important because the larger the file..the longer the download...the less likely someone will try out the game.

    As for the mods starting to put some smack down, I think it is way over due. The negativity, entitlement, conspiracy theories and overall whininess of SOME of the posters is out of hand. It can be hard finding a post with constructive critisim when certain poster are falling over themselves to out do the lastest insult.

    I agree. How very well said that was.

    ~CaptainSmirk
  • edited June 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • phoenix841phoenix841 Member Posts: 487 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Some of us with SSDs in laptops actually do feel the strain of space. 128G hard drives are in some pretty expensive machines.

    This. My laptop has a 128GB SSD.
    venkou wrote: »
    Are you testing stuff out on tribble? If you are downloading the holodeck and tribble versions, the size of the game will increase to 14+ gb.

    Holodeck version alone takes up 7.29 gb.

    My holodeck install takes up 12 GB on my SSD, including 3 GB of screenshots.

    Don't forget people, screenshots are stored in the same location as the game itself.
    On-demand means it only patches as needed. So if you hit up a new system or the like for the first time, it may need to download additional files/resources. It will be that little loading status you get at the top of a loading screen. With it turned off - it installs everything so you don't go through that.

    edit: It's odd though, cause the overall PWE folder (which includes Arc as well as STO Live/Tribble) is only showing 17.7 GB total. I may need to check into this further...I was a little surprised at the 17 GB number, remembering it having been closer to 13-14 GB.

    It seems like they need a minimal installer. Especially useful for new players.
    They download a minimal installer (like 500MB-1GB), which contains the tutorial and starting sector blocks for the various factions. Then as they play, the next sector block they would progress to is automatically downloaded in the background. If they haven't reached it yet, download the next one after that. Continue until the game is completely downloaded.

    A fresh new player doesn't need any Dyson or other lvl 50 stuff for several days at least. That alone can shave off several hundred MB for the installer.

    Of course that might require a lot of rework if the system they currently have can't do that.

    EDIT: I was unaware of the on-demand patcher.
    LTS Since Beta (Jan 2010).
  • thegalaxy31thegalaxy31 Member Posts: 1,211 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    phoenix841 wrote: »
    This. My laptop has a 128GB SSD.



    My holodeck install takes up 12 GB on my SSD, including 3 GB of screenshots.

    Don't forget people, screenshots are stored in the same location as the game itself.



    It seems like they need a minimal installer. Especially useful for new players.
    They download a minimal installer (like 500MB-1GB), which contains the tutorial and starting sector blocks for the various factions. Then as they play, the next sector block they would progress to is automatically downloaded in the background. If they haven't reached it yet, download the next one after that. Continue until the game is completely downloaded.

    A fresh new player doesn't need any Dyson or other lvl 50 stuff for several days at least. That alone can shave off several hundred MB for the installer.

    Of course that might require a lot of rework if the system they currently have can't do that.

    I agree, I feel bad for those who can't get computers with large capacity. Another point is that all these downloads could get new players lost.
    I would love to visit this star in-game...or maybe this one!
    Won't SOMEONE please think of the CHILDREN?!
  • zaalbarzaalbar Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Will we be able to craft Andorian phasers? I want to try putting a wide arc phaser on my Kumari but the standard phaser orange just doesn't look as good next to the blue cannons.

    Alternately, how about allowing some unique property customization of weapons in general? Maybe we can set the color, replace one of the modifiers with other modifiers that are otherwise unavailable, maybe craft our own custom dual-proc weapons, etc. This would add some depth to the R&D department while still keeping the same random elements and give more of an impression that we're actually designing and building custom weapons rather than devoting our ship's R&D department to designing equipment that is functionally identical to what is already available.
  • orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    You don't make any sense and should be on the same boat with Hawk.
    I love you too. :)
    sirokk wrote: »
    In orangeitis' defense, the criticism was on the way that sherac had expressed himself, not what he was saying.
    This, pretty much.
    I don't have a terabyte hard drive.
    Me neither. And this computer isn't even three years old.


    Also, bravo Smirk on the pimp hand. It felt great~
  • capnmanxcapnmanx Member Posts: 1,452 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    Within my own personal lifetime, I have never seen the customer and merchant relationship so stressed.

    I grew up in a world where 'customers were always right'. While the logic behind the paradigm was not always true, companies would bend-over backwards to satisfy a consumer.

    Stores such as Saturn, Stop n' Shop, Sears, Best Buy, Bradlees, and Friendly's are just a few examples of merchants, which would use public relations tactics and tact to quell negative feedback. I have never-ever seen a merchant get mad at consumers, for they disagreed with their negative feedback. I have always seen olive branches.

    During the late 1990s, the company Saturn was praised for their customer service. Virtually every company in the US formulated their customer service departments after Saturn.

    Sometimes you have to take the highroad. Regardless about how damaged your pride is hurt, you have to find ways to approach a negative situation with diplomacy.

    Remember, everyone in the forum is a consumer.

    Its up to Cryptic to figure out on how to extend the olive branch.

    Consumers are upset for a reason.

    You have to figure out why consumers are upset, and then you have to formulate a solution.

    I have faith in Cryptic's ability to solve this issue positively.

    All true, but it only excuses so much; and I'm saying that as someone who is pretty steamed at Cryptic myself right now. Being angry is fine. Posting angry is often unwise, but understandable. Taking anger out on others is not fine.
  • shadowmane20001shadowmane20001 Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Ok. I have heard all sorts of rumors. And I know for a fact that one I heard was we will need to use Dilithium to craft weapons through the duty officer system and that there is either a chance to Fail, and get nothing but wasted materials Which I would never use the system if that was the cast. Nor would I use it if I was awarded with a Random weapon quality green, blue or purple.

    I would use the Reputation system to get my end level gear 90% of the time instead of crafting. and the remaining 10% is when I have fleet credits to get the fleet weapons. because I am assured to not be wasting Dilithium that equates to RL money indirectly.

    I like the idea of Crafting through the duty officer system as a Concept. I would like to see perhaps the following system.

    The ability to take say a White MK I beam array and do one of two things with it, Through the crafting system add my own procs to it Like Acc. Transforming it with a 100% chance of success from a white to a green. then perhaps repeat it and put another proc on it I desire like... another acc proc or damage proc, critical hit proc or crit damage. Maybe even special procs like Borg, or undine bonus damage. Able to take it up to a purple item.

    The Other thing I would like to see is say able to take an existing item like say a purple MK XI weapon and then upgrade it to a Purple MK XII weapon. Or A Blue MK XII weapon and then upgrade it to a purple MKXII

    All without a chance to fail. Providing I would not be wasting my hard earned Dilithium. Because if there was something to spend it on and there was a chance no matter how small of even 1% of no return. I would not use it. I hope the devs recall how players reacted when we had to use Dilithium for crafting. I was not thrilled with it had had very strong words boarder line rude. And while I was not thrilled with the Unreplicatible materials both common and uncommon being required. It did take the severity of the Sting out of adding Dilithium to crafting because you could buy, sell and trade those materials to dedicating crafters.

    I know you are just testing ideas for the player base. but pleases think wisely on how you approach future updates for this system.
  • druhindruhin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Ok. I have heard all sorts of rumors. And I know for a fact that one I heard was we will need to use Dilithium to craft weapons through the duty officer system and that there is either a chance to Fail, and get nothing but wasted materials Which I would never use the system if that was the cast. Nor would I use it if I was awarded with a Random weapon quality green, blue or purple.

    I would use the Reputation system to get my end level gear 90% of the time instead of crafting. and the remaining 10% is when I have fleet credits to get the fleet weapons. because I am assured to not be wasting Dilithium that equates to RL money indirectly.

    After having briefly tested the new system on Tribble, I can state for certain, that higher mark (Mk XII) weapons will definitely cost in the range of 20k Dilithium. Each. And you only get the weapon, if the craft is successful. If it's a failure, you're out 20k Dilithium. That's 2.5 days worth of constant Dilithium grinding. Per weapon. I don't care what Cryptic thinks, that amount is absolutely ridiculous.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I don't have a terabyte hard drive.
    449 Mb here.
    druhin wrote: »
    I think the bigger issue, is that many ISPs (especially within the US), have a cap on how much you are allowed to download each month. A ridiculous restriction, in an increasingly online-connected world. I fail to see how Cryptic's removal of the Exploration Clusters, would suddenly cause such a drastic reduction in game filesize.
    3500 maps with associated mission templates and the assets used by the randomization routines. People talk a lot of stuff about how the missions are "all the same", but they have a lot of assets that are seen nowhere else in the game.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    Within my own personal lifetime, I have never seen the customer and merchant relationship so stressed..
    I take it you've never been to the Avengers Alliance forums....

    Anyways, it's way too early in the testing phase to be acting like you want to lynch cryptic...
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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