That's the side that keeps me coming back for more. But it's a push and pull for me. Cryptic has a side to the way they do things that pushes me away and they have a side that pulls me in. And eventually one of those forces will win out. But it will stay in flux for me so long as they cultivate those two sides.
That's the only reason I've stuck around as long as I have. I disagree with a lot of the things that Cryptic has done. Vehemently. I have made some spectacular rants in the past, I'm sure you've seen some of them.
But I can also tell that Cryptic does want to make a good game that everyone will enjoy. It's the only reason it's done as well as it has. Even though only a small number of players with this game use steam, it's still in the top 100.
I mean, if someone had told me 5 years ago that Star Trek Online of all things would be more popular than the next Final Fantasy MMO I would have backed away slowly.
That's the only reason I've stuck around as long as I have. I disagree with a lot of the things that Cryptic has done. Vehemently. I have made some spectacular rants in the past, I'm sure you've seen some of them.
But I can also tell that Cryptic does want to make a good game that everyone will enjoy. It's the only reason it's done as well as it has. Even though only a small number of players with this game use steam, it's still in the top 100.
I mean, if someone had told me 5 years ago that Star Trek Online of all things would be more popular than the next Final Fantasy MMO I would have backed away slowly.
I think they do.
But there's that side that's all "Quell the haters" and taking shots at the forums and common player suggestions. The side that makes disco balls essential to minmaxed ground combat.
And it's a sadistic streak that looks really ugly from where I sit.
That's because since the days of Nasser, the armed forces of Egypt have been deeply ingrained in public and political life, to the point where the military is considered a "state within a state". In matters of "state security", the military can try civilians in military courts that are, traditionally, outside the jurisdiction of the civil authorities.
Starfleet is not a military. The Federation has no military. Yes Starfleet is armed. Yes they participate in armed conflicts. But Starfleet is clearly not a standing military. Starfleet is a militia. There is a big difference.
Starfleet has a permanent, standing armed presence in the defense of the Federation, with full time, commissioned/non-commissioned personnel serving in it's ranks. Their vessels are heavily armed and possess considerable defensive technologies. Starfleet also possesses a fighter contingent and armed ground forces. Starfleet possesses considerable warfighting capability.
A militia is a part time, poorly trained, and poorly/lightly equipped organized (or unorganized, if statutory law allows for such) group of citizens that can be called up in times of emergency.
A standing army is a professional army composed of full time soldiers that is not disbanded during times of peace.
Which fits Starfleet to a tee.
And citizen militias are not always disbanded in peacetime. An organized militia is always ready to be called up at anytime. And they are usually required to meet for drill and training.
Every character in every Star Trek series was not a full time soldier. You will not see families on board an aircraft carrier. But you do see families on board Starfleet vessels.
Nor is everybody's MOS in the military related to combat. And like modern military personnel, all Starfleet personnel receive training in weapons and CQC.
As for the presence of families aboard starships, that was a peacetime experiment that was (apparently) abandoned in later years.
That is because Starfleet ships are only converted to combat use during times of crisis.
Which would be incorrect. Starfleet vessels are equipped to engage in combat at anytime. Hence, their considerable tactical capabilities.
Which does nothing to support your position, since any of those abilities can be argued to have a clear tactical use regardless of whether or not civilians are aboard the vessel in question. In other words, they simply make the vessel more efficient in combat and offer an extra tactical edge in an engagement.
But once the conflict is over, they are once again reconverted to their civilian oriented status, which is a key part of a MILITIA.
There is no evidence to support this, since Starfleet vessels remain combat capable at all times. And they are still operated, and operate under the jurisdiction of, commissioned Starfleet personnel. Not civilians.
As for the militia part, see the earlier part of my response. Starfleet does not fit the definition of what a militia is. It is a well trained, well equipped, and well oiled machine run by full time commissioned personnel, using top of the line technology and possessing true military grade firepower. Something you will not find in a traditional organized militia force.
Star. Fleet. Is. Not. A. Military.
Other than a throw away line in one episode, produced in an era when Roddenberry held the reigns of TNG and suffered from grade-A moonbattery, all indications point toward Starfleet operating as the Federation's standing armed forces. This is no more evident than how it was portrayed in the days of the original cast. Especially in the movie era.
But there's that side that's all "Quell the haters" and taking shots at the forums and common player suggestions. The side that makes disco balls essential to minmaxed ground combat.
And it's a sadistic streak that looks really ugly from where I sit.
And blocking swimsuits from other areas of the game. And the T5 Connie debacle. Yeah I get where you're coming from.
The only wy this could be done that i know of is torewrd players for wearting the approite uniform/dress for the map there on
ESD you get normal prices for goods bought or sold / recieve a 20% penality if you wore the wrong thing past the transporter pad for the entire day
ground combat maps the same thing
now when you go to a place like drozana the reverse....starfleet oficers in uniforms get the penality so do kdf.............off duty /civilian only do not recieve the penality
it would still be a pain to do this ......not worth it imo
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
That's because since the days of Nasser, the armed forces of Egypt have been deeply ingrained in public and political life, to the point where the military is considered a "state within a state". In matters of "state security", the military can try civilians in military courts that are, traditionally, outside the jurisdiction of the civil authorities.
Starfleet has a permanent, standing armed presence in the defense of the Federation, with full time, commissioned/non-commissioned personnel serving in it's ranks. Their vessels are heavily armed and possess considerable defensive technologies. Starfleet also possesses a fighter contingent and armed ground forces. Starfleet possesses considerable warfighting capability.
A militia is a part time, poorly trained, and poorly/lightly equipped organized (or unorganized, if statutory law allows for such) group of citizens that can be called up in times of emergency.
Okay, now you are just generalizing. Just because militia's lack extensive training, does not mean they are poorly equipped or ineffective. Militias can be very effective.
And citizen militias are not always disbanded in peacetime. An organized militia is always ready to be called up at anytime. And they are usually required to meet for drill and training.
How does this prove me wrong? If anything this proves me right. I'm not saying that Starfleet can't act like a military, cause they certainly do can. Starfleet still isn't a military because that isn't their primary purpose.
That's what I'm trying to get across here, the primary purpose of a military is to kill things. Whether offensively, or defensively that is why militaries exist. Starfleet on the other hand... What's the Captains Oath? Come on, we all know it:
"To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."
^That right there is Starfleets purpose. That is clearly not the riflemans creed. Starfleet is not equipped with weapons to fight wars. It is equipped to defend against those that wish to harm them. I. E. a civillian militia.
Nor is everybody's MOS in the military related to combat. And like modern military personnel, all Starfleet personnel receive training in weapons and CQC.
As for the presence of families aboard starships, that was a peacetime experiment that was (apparently) abandoned in later years.
Which would be incorrect. Starfleet vessels are equipped to engage in combat at anytime. Hence, their considerable tactical capabilities.
I own several guns, knives and other weapons, I have extensive knowledge of the use and care of each. I know several martial arts. I am capable of engaging in combat at any time.
Which does nothing to support your position, since any of those abilities can be argued to have a clear tactical use regardless of whether or not civilians are aboard the vessel in question. In other words, they simply make the vessel more efficient in combat and offer an extra tactical edge in an engagement.
If that was the case, why do we see no further Galaxy Class ships use the Saucer Separation? Several dozen appear in DS9. All in combat situations. Yet none use the maneuver, while the Enterprise uses it several times. Naturally, one can infer that it was meant to protect the families on board. As the ships seen in DS9 were purposefully heading into a combat situation, they obviously didn't have families on board, thus there was no need to separate.
Again, this isn't hard canon, it's simply an educated guess.
There is no evidence to support this, since Starfleet vessels remain combat capable at all times. And they are still operated, and operate under the jurisdiction of, commissioned Starfleet personnel. Not civilians.
As for the militia part, see the earlier part of my response. Starfleet does not fit the definition of what a militia is. It is a well trained, well equipped, and well oiled machine run by full time commissioned personnel, using top of the line technology and possessing true military grade firepower. Something you will not find in a traditional organized militia force.
Again, you are generalizing. Just because a military is standing, doesn't mean it's well oiled machine. Militias can be very well equipped, and ridiculously effective. You are generalizing.
Other than a throw away line in one episode, produced in an era when Roddenberry held the reigns of TNG and suffered from grade-A moonbattery, all indications point toward Starfleet operating as the Federation's standing armed forces. This is no more evident than how it was portrayed in the days of the original cast. Especially in the movie era.
Therefore it is canon.
It was on screen. Written by the creator. Starfleet is not a military. It's purpose, it's function, it's creed, it's reason for existence, both in the Star Trek universe and the real world, it's not a military. It is an ideal. An ideal scientific organization that exists to better humanity though diplomacy, exploration, and scientific discovery, that has all the heroism and organization of a military, but is not one.
That is why Gene Roddenberry created Starfleet.
Is that realistic? No. It's not. That's why people constantly want to call it a military, because it's unlikely that Starfleet could exist as that ideal. As awesome as something that simultaneously functions as NASA and the Coast Guard in space sounds, I will concede that no, Starfleet is not realistic. But that's okay because it's a story.
You know what, I want to ask you what you guys think.
Would it be better, if Paramount/CBS, or even Gene Roddenberry himself came out and said that yes, without a doubt, Starfleet is a military organization? Would that make Star Trek better?
No. No it would not.
Yes, Starfleet is unrealistic. But that unrealism is what makes Star Trek Star Trek. Humans have evolved as a society as to no longer need a dedicated militaristic organization. It's supposed to be unrealistic, optimistic and naive. It's supposed to be, because it is a goal that we as a human race should set for ourselves.
Do you know what happens when Starfleet is turned into a military?
Old Gene, especially in his later years turned the universe of the Federation into pretty much what could be defined as Libertopia. the UFP is pretty much perfect in every way and humans are perfect...everyone is excepting...no one pursues money...there is no want...etc. Certain extreme liberals have a rather strong distaste for the military. Making the stars of the show, and the heroes of the show military would grind on them pretty hard. So Gene and those thinking like him probably want to pretend really hard that Starfleet isn't a military organization, the problem is every single detail of it IS military. DS9 finally started to toss out that perfect human sillyness and made humans "human" again.
I mean how hard would we laugh at Clinton / W / Obama if they had try to proclaim the US Navy isn't a military organization?
Just because I can, here is one of the best moments in Trek (DS9):
This isn't the military, it's a game. I agree that it's silly for people to run around in dresses, but this isn't America's Army.
There are many different people playing from different factions/fleets, etc. You aren't going to have everyone in the same freaking uniform even within the Federation.
Well take a trip on a civilian cruise ship, pay special attention to the crew... They tend to wear the same uniform.
Heck, even most cargo haulers use uniforms.
The Uniform is by no means a military only thing. Yes, it came from the military (or navy actually, but W/E), but it has been adopted by virtually all branches of virtually all professions. Even some schools use them these days.
I don't want to force this on everybody, but for me - personally, I'd like to see the option to let me see everyone in the same uniform... And yes... This is because it bothers me - a military man - that despite we have uniform, there is nothing uniform about them.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Yeah. The funny thing is, I realize I've spent more than the average customer. I've come around on lockboxes. I basically suggested Lobi. I enjoy grinding. I've written Foundry missions. I interviewed for a job with Cryptic and made it through a few rounds of screening; frankly, I think I'd be a candidate very much in the vein of John Layman. I pitched the exact concept of Featured Episodes back in beta and, in particular, What Lies Beneath basically came straight from a post I made on the forums. I get along with their senior management and really felt like I've connected with a few employees there at outside events, like Thomas and the late, great Mark Valentine.
I like wacky things. My WoW character was an engineer. I used to argue against the lorelol posts there that WoW lore itself was wacky. I have nearly 20 years of experiences playing and managing online RPGs.
And, yet, at the end of the day, there's a mentality that always creeps up. It's fratboyish. I see it in a lot of geek fields, including comics. It's what you might call the source of goon friendliness. It seems like it peaks at a senior middle management level in gaming and comics and entertainment. And it drives me nuts because I know I could have a beer or coffee with these guys and geek out about 90s comic books or Star Trek. But I'm going to butt heads with them on design and policy. I'm sure there are people at Cryptic who read some of my posts and wince not because they disagree but because I'm expressing them as a forum rant and I don't know the inside story, yadda, yadda, yadda.
But it's that geek passive aggressiveness that I have a distaste for. It reminds me of that scene in the Robert Redford movie, The Last Castle, where the warden throws a single basketball out onto the prison basketball court because he delights in watching the inmates fight, because it establishes in his mind that they are inferior and easy to control. When you see it in that movie, you know instantly that the warden is the villain and you're rooting for Robert Redford to take over the prison.
But I think a lot of real people take the warden's perspective on this. They really do delight in throwing that basketball out onto the court. And it pains me to know that many of them are guys I'd probably be have a good time with in a bar. And it pains me that their supervisors, guys I admire for much of their approach, let that happen.
It's not JUST Cryptic but I've felt enough of an affinity for the guys at Cryptic over the last ten years since I met them at SDCC, before they even launched City of Heroes... I legitimately like some of these guys enough that it manages to wound me every time I see the goon or goon tolerant mentality surface. Every. Single. Time.
Eventually I'm going to wise up and know better.
Still, Matt "Positron" Miller and Jesse Heinig have been doing a bang up job on content. Most of the recent remastering (like the Fed tutorial) has been Matt. And I want to see what they're doing for this expansion. I really do.
That's the side that keeps me coming back for more. But it's a push and pull for me. Cryptic has a side to the way they do things that pushes me away and they have a side that pulls me in. And eventually one of those forces will win out. But it will stay in flux for me so long as they cultivate those two sides.
HOLY TRIBBLE!
Someone else who has actually seen The Last Castle, I love that movie. (Yes, I know it's implausible, but still...)
Such a feature could be welcome yes, but wouldn't it get boring after a while?
I'm thinking here that if it was possible, everyone who has the feature on would just see an endless collection of clones on the ground and T4 ships in space to represent players. I doubt it would be made so that uniforms only are affected on the ground, and then of course there are custom aliens to consider - most of which are probably canon breaking.
And what about space? Would plasma weapons on a Nicor become phasers on a Sovereign if it happens to belong to a Federation captain? How would you explain plasma burn from a phaser? Or the hull of one ship having the stats of another? And what about space sets and those visuals too?
Evidentially it's not practical.
Best thing you could do would be to join an RP fleet, and perhaps the STB channel too since they stick to canon ships - between the two you'd have a decent canon game most of the time.
Such a feature could be welcome yes, but wouldn't it get boring after a while?
I'm thinking here that if it was possible, everyone who has the feature on would just see an endless collection of clones on the ground and T4 ships in space to represent players. I doubt it would be made so that uniforms only are affected on the ground, and then of course there are custom aliens to consider - most of which are probably canon breaking.
And what about space? Would plasma weapons on a Nicor become phasers on a Sovereign if it happens to belong to a Federation captain? How would you explain plasma burn from a phaser? Or the hull of one ship having the stats of another? And what about space sets and those visuals too?
Evidentially it's not practical.
Best thing you could do would be to join an RP fleet, and perhaps the STB channel too since they stick to canon ships - between the two you'd have a decent canon game most of the time.
Well I don't think what the OP is looking for is to make everything clones... Just change Uniforms and Drop some of all the bling from the ships.
Well I don't think what the OP is looking for is to make everything clones... Just change Uniforms and Drop some of all the bling from the ships.
point of order.
set uniform, while not clones. greatly cuts down on differences. clothes make the man and all that. it would reduce the differences to head and size. and most characters are about the same sizes.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Calling people idiots... I must say, that is very intellectually mature.
Been eating any good books lately?
True but that goes for most of this thread.
Nope been to busy getting brain dead playing STO and reading this sort of thread
Please don't take everything to seriously I'm not :-)
Or maybe people don't want to see the outfit you "put work into" (LOL). Maybe we want SF/KDF/RR officers to actually look like they are in a military organization.
Ah TRIBBLE another RP extremist
Well i'm ok if they give the option to put everyone in a half naked orion female. :rolleyes:
When I first started playing after open beta I used to think like the OP. Keep it all canon.
After a while I realized why Cryptic set the game in 2409. So they can have creative freedom in developing STO. And to give players creative freedom in playing STO. And of course so they can make money from those things.
I came to just accept that its 2409 and in this century you can wear uniforms from other eras or captain ships from other species or even other dimensions. All of it HAS TO BE SEEN because that's how Cryptic makes money. It's just as simple as that.
Is there a MMO that has ever done any of what the OP says???
afaik I've only seen 'a-tabs' where you can effect your characters appearance while wearing something else. you like armor x and but like armor y's look. or wearing armour and having it's protection while having the look of casual clothes. been done in a some games swg is a prime example it actually worked very well but only effected the player themselves. but in the world of star wars unless you was a storm trooper it wouldn't seem odd if you was wearing something else.
then there was the player made client side mods. you could change just about anything. before they added hoth as a heroic instance to the game it was known for people to mod mustafar to look like hoth.
if there was a colour lightsaber blade you didn't like other players using, you could mod that to a colour of your choice. for a very long time many jedi players used client side modes for better lightsaber visual and sound effects, even the combat animations could be modded. until the devs finally added them properly.
gaming engines are different but I would say anything is possible.
it's just a time and money investment issue. I doubt the devs would sink any time, money or effort in to this idea. based on the rubbish 'content' we've had this year I can't see a great but non essential idea like this ever happening.
Wouldn't it actually be easier on graphics cards if there was a switch to "force" everyone into a "standard" uniform on bases? I mean, if I beamed to ESD and the only uniform that my computer had to render was the Oddessy (aka fleet store, now "canon" standard uniform) in player-selected colors, that's a lot less work on the old graphics card memory that right now might have 300 different uniform parts to show on one measily character (each part) that's halfway across the base and behind 10 walls...
Meanwhile, on mission, there's what, 20 people at most? That's not too bad on the old memory, so let that go, and show off all the "pretty snowflakes" However, I do wonder a bit when I see an evening gown, nylons, and heels in a known battlezone. It's not an "immersion breaker", I just wonder what was the whole reason for separating on-duty and off-duty when you can wear your off-duty stuff "on-duty" (nevermind the practicality of running around in heels that never break with nylons that never run)...
With this last paragraph in mind, and the fact that costume slot 1 is mandated to being a "duty" uniform, I propose the following options:
1. Lock costume slot 2 as off-duty, and force players to create their off-duty uniform as the first action post-tutorial (so that tutorial-skippers still have to prep the uniform). Certain areas (ESD, First City "proper", all combat zones) mandate a "duty" uniform, which defaults to costume #1 when a player is wearing a non-duty option. Certain areas (Risa, Winter Wonderland, Drozana, etc.) mandate the "off duty" uniform, and others (DS9, outlying bases, etc.) are "mixed" zones, displaying the uniform of choice.
2. Dump all clothing options into one big pile, and go from there.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
It was on screen. Written by the creator. Starfleet is not a military. It's purpose, it's function, it's creed, it's reason for existence, both in the Star Trek universe and the real world, it's not a military. It is an ideal. An ideal scientific organization that exists to better humanity though diplomacy, exploration, and scientific discovery, that has all the heroism and organization of a military, but is not one.
the problem with this line of thinking is that Gene had a bunch of waffle moments in TOS... the most famous being whether the Federation uses money... THAT sort of thing is why I'm comfortable writing off the "not a military" statement. Sure it's what Gene wanted it to be.... BUT.... it's not what it actually was.
Well back at launch there was (and apparently there still is) a working mod that made people appear... well... Unlike something you would find in a game rated for 13 year olds...
I assume something similar could be done for this...
not no one is going to code a patch to put clothes ON
This isn't the military, it's a game. I agree that it's silly for people to run around in dresses, but this isn't America's Army.
There are many different people playing from different factions/fleets, etc. You aren't going to have everyone in the same freaking uniform even within the Federation.
it's canon that there ARE differnt uniforms in Trek. so what's the big deal?
So wait...STO is a game but America's Army isn't? Norman Coordinate.
I was going to try to explain how military uniforms work but...not worth it.
I'll just say you're right, not everyone is in the exact same uniform all the time, but in a given situation like say...visiting ESD there will be certain uniform requirements. Specifically you would either wear a "working uniform" or a dress uniform or in certain situations APPROPRIATE civilian attire. You would not wear combat gear or a swimsuit for example.
and exactly how many uniforms does an american sailor have, HMMM??? I know his seabag has more than three...
all the time we spend choosing the outfits we want to wear ect. so we can show it all off to others, then all the time we spend earning that ship or even paying money sometimes with the same idea wont I look cool flying this around and you want to take all of that away from us and make us look how you want us to look and fly what you want us to fly or at least make it look that way to you.
how selfish can you get, what a totalitarian outlook you must have does it bother you when you are out that people are wearing clothes you don't approve of or maybe have strange and colourful hair styles ec.
thank god for individualism.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Comments
That's the only reason I've stuck around as long as I have. I disagree with a lot of the things that Cryptic has done. Vehemently. I have made some spectacular rants in the past, I'm sure you've seen some of them.
But I can also tell that Cryptic does want to make a good game that everyone will enjoy. It's the only reason it's done as well as it has. Even though only a small number of players with this game use steam, it's still in the top 100.
I mean, if someone had told me 5 years ago that Star Trek Online of all things would be more popular than the next Final Fantasy MMO I would have backed away slowly.
I think they do.
But there's that side that's all "Quell the haters" and taking shots at the forums and common player suggestions. The side that makes disco balls essential to minmaxed ground combat.
And it's a sadistic streak that looks really ugly from where I sit.
That's because since the days of Nasser, the armed forces of Egypt have been deeply ingrained in public and political life, to the point where the military is considered a "state within a state". In matters of "state security", the military can try civilians in military courts that are, traditionally, outside the jurisdiction of the civil authorities.
Starfleet has a permanent, standing armed presence in the defense of the Federation, with full time, commissioned/non-commissioned personnel serving in it's ranks. Their vessels are heavily armed and possess considerable defensive technologies. Starfleet also possesses a fighter contingent and armed ground forces. Starfleet possesses considerable warfighting capability.
A militia is a part time, poorly trained, and poorly/lightly equipped organized (or unorganized, if statutory law allows for such) group of citizens that can be called up in times of emergency.
Which fits Starfleet to a tee.
And citizen militias are not always disbanded in peacetime. An organized militia is always ready to be called up at anytime. And they are usually required to meet for drill and training.
Nor is everybody's MOS in the military related to combat. And like modern military personnel, all Starfleet personnel receive training in weapons and CQC.
As for the presence of families aboard starships, that was a peacetime experiment that was (apparently) abandoned in later years.
Which would be incorrect. Starfleet vessels are equipped to engage in combat at anytime. Hence, their considerable tactical capabilities.
.
Which does nothing to support your position, since any of those abilities can be argued to have a clear tactical use regardless of whether or not civilians are aboard the vessel in question. In other words, they simply make the vessel more efficient in combat and offer an extra tactical edge in an engagement.
There is no evidence to support this, since Starfleet vessels remain combat capable at all times. And they are still operated, and operate under the jurisdiction of, commissioned Starfleet personnel. Not civilians.
As for the militia part, see the earlier part of my response. Starfleet does not fit the definition of what a militia is. It is a well trained, well equipped, and well oiled machine run by full time commissioned personnel, using top of the line technology and possessing true military grade firepower. Something you will not find in a traditional organized militia force.
Other than a throw away line in one episode, produced in an era when Roddenberry held the reigns of TNG and suffered from grade-A moonbattery, all indications point toward Starfleet operating as the Federation's standing armed forces. This is no more evident than how it was portrayed in the days of the original cast. Especially in the movie era.
And blocking swimsuits from other areas of the game. And the T5 Connie debacle. Yeah I get where you're coming from.
I...wha...huh?
Of all the-
No no, wait. Let's see where this goes first... *grabs popcorn*
ESD you get normal prices for goods bought or sold / recieve a 20% penality if you wore the wrong thing past the transporter pad for the entire day
ground combat maps the same thing
now when you go to a place like drozana the reverse....starfleet oficers in uniforms get the penality so do kdf.............off duty /civilian only do not recieve the penality
it would still be a pain to do this ......not worth it imo
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Sounds a lot like Starfleet actually.
Okay, now you are just generalizing. Just because militia's lack extensive training, does not mean they are poorly equipped or ineffective. Militias can be very effective.
How does this prove me wrong? If anything this proves me right. I'm not saying that Starfleet can't act like a military, cause they certainly do can. Starfleet still isn't a military because that isn't their primary purpose.
That's what I'm trying to get across here, the primary purpose of a military is to kill things. Whether offensively, or defensively that is why militaries exist. Starfleet on the other hand... What's the Captains Oath? Come on, we all know it:
"To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before."
^That right there is Starfleets purpose. That is clearly not the riflemans creed. Starfleet is not equipped with weapons to fight wars. It is equipped to defend against those that wish to harm them. I. E. a civillian militia.
STO is not canon.
I own several guns, knives and other weapons, I have extensive knowledge of the use and care of each. I know several martial arts. I am capable of engaging in combat at any time.
I am still not a soldier.
If that was the case, why do we see no further Galaxy Class ships use the Saucer Separation? Several dozen appear in DS9. All in combat situations. Yet none use the maneuver, while the Enterprise uses it several times. Naturally, one can infer that it was meant to protect the families on board. As the ships seen in DS9 were purposefully heading into a combat situation, they obviously didn't have families on board, thus there was no need to separate.
Again, this isn't hard canon, it's simply an educated guess.
Again, you are generalizing. Just because a military is standing, doesn't mean it's well oiled machine. Militias can be very well equipped, and ridiculously effective. You are generalizing.
Therefore it is canon.
It was on screen. Written by the creator. Starfleet is not a military. It's purpose, it's function, it's creed, it's reason for existence, both in the Star Trek universe and the real world, it's not a military. It is an ideal. An ideal scientific organization that exists to better humanity though diplomacy, exploration, and scientific discovery, that has all the heroism and organization of a military, but is not one.
That is why Gene Roddenberry created Starfleet.
Is that realistic? No. It's not. That's why people constantly want to call it a military, because it's unlikely that Starfleet could exist as that ideal. As awesome as something that simultaneously functions as NASA and the Coast Guard in space sounds, I will concede that no, Starfleet is not realistic. But that's okay because it's a story.
Would it be better, if Paramount/CBS, or even Gene Roddenberry himself came out and said that yes, without a doubt, Starfleet is a military organization? Would that make Star Trek better?
No. No it would not.
Yes, Starfleet is unrealistic. But that unrealism is what makes Star Trek Star Trek. Humans have evolved as a society as to no longer need a dedicated militaristic organization. It's supposed to be unrealistic, optimistic and naive. It's supposed to be, because it is a goal that we as a human race should set for ourselves.
Do you know what happens when Starfleet is turned into a military?
This. This is what happens. Which should be avoided at all costs.
Old Gene, especially in his later years turned the universe of the Federation into pretty much what could be defined as Libertopia. the UFP is pretty much perfect in every way and humans are perfect...everyone is excepting...no one pursues money...there is no want...etc. Certain extreme liberals have a rather strong distaste for the military. Making the stars of the show, and the heroes of the show military would grind on them pretty hard. So Gene and those thinking like him probably want to pretend really hard that Starfleet isn't a military organization, the problem is every single detail of it IS military. DS9 finally started to toss out that perfect human sillyness and made humans "human" again.
I mean how hard would we laugh at Clinton / W / Obama if they had try to proclaim the US Navy isn't a military organization?
Just because I can, here is one of the best moments in Trek (DS9):
Sisko, "In the Pale Moonlight"
Well take a trip on a civilian cruise ship, pay special attention to the crew... They tend to wear the same uniform.
Heck, even most cargo haulers use uniforms.
The Uniform is by no means a military only thing. Yes, it came from the military (or navy actually, but W/E), but it has been adopted by virtually all branches of virtually all professions. Even some schools use them these days.
I don't want to force this on everybody, but for me - personally, I'd like to see the option to let me see everyone in the same uniform... And yes... This is because it bothers me - a military man - that despite we have uniform, there is nothing uniform about them.
HOLY TRIBBLE!
Someone else who has actually seen The Last Castle, I love that movie. (Yes, I know it's implausible, but still...)
I'm thinking here that if it was possible, everyone who has the feature on would just see an endless collection of clones on the ground and T4 ships in space to represent players. I doubt it would be made so that uniforms only are affected on the ground, and then of course there are custom aliens to consider - most of which are probably canon breaking.
And what about space? Would plasma weapons on a Nicor become phasers on a Sovereign if it happens to belong to a Federation captain? How would you explain plasma burn from a phaser? Or the hull of one ship having the stats of another? And what about space sets and those visuals too?
Evidentially it's not practical.
Best thing you could do would be to join an RP fleet, and perhaps the STB channel too since they stick to canon ships - between the two you'd have a decent canon game most of the time.
Bless all you crackpots and full-fledged I.D.10.T members love you guy's lol
Well I don't think what the OP is looking for is to make everything clones... Just change Uniforms and Drop some of all the bling from the ships.
Calling people idiots... I must say, that is very intellectually mature.
Been eating any good books lately?
point of order.
set uniform, while not clones. greatly cuts down on differences. clothes make the man and all that. it would reduce the differences to head and size. and most characters are about the same sizes.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
True but that goes for most of this thread.
Nope been to busy getting brain dead playing STO and reading this sort of thread
Please don't take everything to seriously I'm not :-)
Ah TRIBBLE another RP extremist
Well i'm ok if they give the option to put everyone in a half naked orion female. :rolleyes:
After a while I realized why Cryptic set the game in 2409. So they can have creative freedom in developing STO. And to give players creative freedom in playing STO. And of course so they can make money from those things.
I came to just accept that its 2409 and in this century you can wear uniforms from other eras or captain ships from other species or even other dimensions. All of it HAS TO BE SEEN because that's how Cryptic makes money. It's just as simple as that.
afaik I've only seen 'a-tabs' where you can effect your characters appearance while wearing something else. you like armor x and but like armor y's look. or wearing armour and having it's protection while having the look of casual clothes. been done in a some games swg is a prime example it actually worked very well but only effected the player themselves. but in the world of star wars unless you was a storm trooper it wouldn't seem odd if you was wearing something else.
then there was the player made client side mods. you could change just about anything. before they added hoth as a heroic instance to the game it was known for people to mod mustafar to look like hoth.
if there was a colour lightsaber blade you didn't like other players using, you could mod that to a colour of your choice. for a very long time many jedi players used client side modes for better lightsaber visual and sound effects, even the combat animations could be modded. until the devs finally added them properly.
gaming engines are different but I would say anything is possible.
it's just a time and money investment issue. I doubt the devs would sink any time, money or effort in to this idea. based on the rubbish 'content' we've had this year I can't see a great but non essential idea like this ever happening.
Really?
Where did I say anything about RP? One does not have to be an RPer to not want to see things that are wildly out of place.
And yet every Star Trek show has been visually defined by the uniform the crew must wear.
Wouldn't it actually be easier on graphics cards if there was a switch to "force" everyone into a "standard" uniform on bases? I mean, if I beamed to ESD and the only uniform that my computer had to render was the Oddessy (aka fleet store, now "canon" standard uniform) in player-selected colors, that's a lot less work on the old graphics card memory that right now might have 300 different uniform parts to show on one measily character (each part) that's halfway across the base and behind 10 walls...
Meanwhile, on mission, there's what, 20 people at most? That's not too bad on the old memory, so let that go, and show off all the "pretty snowflakes" However, I do wonder a bit when I see an evening gown, nylons, and heels in a known battlezone. It's not an "immersion breaker", I just wonder what was the whole reason for separating on-duty and off-duty when you can wear your off-duty stuff "on-duty" (nevermind the practicality of running around in heels that never break with nylons that never run)...
With this last paragraph in mind, and the fact that costume slot 1 is mandated to being a "duty" uniform, I propose the following options:
1. Lock costume slot 2 as off-duty, and force players to create their off-duty uniform as the first action post-tutorial (so that tutorial-skippers still have to prep the uniform). Certain areas (ESD, First City "proper", all combat zones) mandate a "duty" uniform, which defaults to costume #1 when a player is wearing a non-duty option. Certain areas (Risa, Winter Wonderland, Drozana, etc.) mandate the "off duty" uniform, and others (DS9, outlying bases, etc.) are "mixed" zones, displaying the uniform of choice.
2. Dump all clothing options into one big pile, and go from there.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
My character Tsin'xing
pot, kettle.
don't like my beachcomber outfit? too bad. or in the parlance of Klingons, BITE ME
not no one is going to code a patch to put clothes ON
it's canon that there ARE differnt uniforms in Trek. so what's the big deal?
and exactly how many uniforms does an american sailor have, HMMM??? I know his seabag has more than three...
how selfish can you get, what a totalitarian outlook you must have does it bother you when you are out that people are wearing clothes you don't approve of or maybe have strange and colourful hair styles ec.
thank god for individualism.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.