They are by every definition of the word, and are acknowledged to be so by other races within the Star trek universe
noun
1.
the armed forces of a country.
Are they armed? Yes
Are their actions sanctioned by a recognised Government? Yes
Starfleet is more that a military certainly, they have exploritary and scientific mandates thats for sure, but they are the Armed forces of the Federation
The only people in Star trek that seem to be in denial about it is Starfleet itself
They are by every definition of the word, and are acknowledged to be so by other races within the Star trek universe
noun
1.
the armed forces of a country.
Are they armed? Yes
Are their actions sanctioned by a recognised Government? Yes
Starfleet is more that a military certainly, they have exploritary and scientific mandates thats for sure, but they are the Armed forces of the Federation
The only people in Star trek that seem to be in denial about it is Starfleet itself
Is the police the armed forces of a country?
Are they armed? Yes
Are their actions sanctioned by a recongised government? Yes
Yeah, but can you back that up with a link to someone who matters?
So wait, a link to a wiki that contains behind the scenes discussions with someone who is now dead (and therefore can't be interviewed anymore) is not enough evidence that something is fact.
Yet, I have yet to see you post one link, one clip, one anything were anyone flat out said Starfleet was a miltary organization.
That my friend is a double standard.
It has been well stated numerous times, that GENE RODDENBERRY, was adamant that Starfleet was NOT a military organization. In fact I remember reading somewhere that Gene actually hated the TWOK uniforms because they looked to militaristic. Which is why we have the styles we have. But that is most likely from the same wiki you are disregarding.
So as far as I am concerned you are just refusing to face facts, because they do not support what you want. If you want to feel free to prove me wrong, by all means link me to something that says Starfleet is a military organization. Till then, I will continue to say it is not, and not be embarrassed by it in the least.
So wait, a link to a wiki that contains behind the scenes discussions with someone who is now dead (and therefore can't be interviewed anymore) is not enough evidence that something is fact.
Yet, I have yet to see you post one link, one clip, one anything were anyone flat out said Starfleet was a miltary organization.
That my friend is a double standard.
It has been well stated numerous times, that GENE RODDENBERRY, was adamant that Starfleet was NOT a military organization. In fact I remember reading somewhere that Gene actually hated the TWOK uniforms because they looked to militaristic. Which is why we have the styles we have. But that is most likely from the same wiki you are disregarding.
So as far as I am concerned you are just refusing to face facts, because they do not support what you want. If you want to feel free to prove me wrong, by all means link me to something that says Starfleet is a military organization. Till then, I will continue to say it is not, and not be embarrassed by it in the least.
And yet another goober who can't actually say why it would be bad.
Fine, here you go.
The amount of work spent to create a filtering protocol is out of the line of possibility, the devs have said many times that they can't make it so your crew in your ship interior wears a user set uniforms. Now take that an multiply the complexity many times to account for the plethora of user created uniforms, ship builds, alien species, which would have to be matched against some set specification and applied to match some other set of "approved" specification. Further more, unless you wanted hundreds of clones taking the place of the offending characters they would have to make some sort of randomization protocol to replace the character's look with one you'd find appropriate, and they'd need separate ones for every species, class, and gender combination.
Let's even go deeper. how would you "filter" this, is the Mirror Universe out but a Lime Green Serra uniform okay? How about a perfectly replicated Original Series Uniform, it's still over a hundred years out of date, some one wearing it would be almost as silly as someone in the modern US army wearing a Revolutionary War uniform while on duty.
Now on to custom aliens, what would be acceptable there? There are many aliens from Star Trek that are not selectable but can be made in as custom aliens. How would this filter distinguish between someone using a custom alien to make a Cardassian, or even better, one of the countless aliens that made one unnamed appearance in the background of an episode and the silly bug eyed monsters some make?
For the gear, we have NPC guards wearing armor and I'm sure I've seen some NPCs with things that look like the kits which means that the armor looks, which even I admit looks more like something from Mass Effect than Trek, and kits are, as far as STO is concerned, "appropriate" for our officers to wear.
Now let's say they DID make something like this. All of these multiple variables would have to be running on top of the game as is. If these forums and Zone chat are any indication keeping things running is a fragile enough balance as they are without dozens, if not hundreds, more processes going on.
These last points are purely personal opinion and included for the sake of completeness feel free to disregard them.
You're asking the very devs who made all these parts to hide their own content, now I'll grant that this might not count as "bad" to you but I'd find the request rude. You wouldn't going to an art gallery and ask the artist to put a sheet over some of their work because you don't like it, would you?
Also many of those costume parts you're asking the devs to hide are part of the C-Store and therefore part of what keeps the game funded, everyone running around in a Mirror Universe Uniform is a walking billboard for Zen sales.
Because Starfleet does, and thats pretty much a military thing.
Starfleet also fight war against other powers, they are the unique and official line of defense for many federation worlds, including earth, they use military rank and hierarchy...
I clearly remember Starfleet defending Earth against the Borg. I don't remember any Earth military ships, probably because they doesn't exist anymore, and Starfleet is the "army" now.
In fact, they are the only military Earth have, for example, and they totally act like one. They are not called military, that's all. You can call a potato an apple if you want to, it will still be a potato.
My answer to the OP: The amount of coding that would be required to do what your suggesting would pretty much require them to rewrite the whole game. I would rather they didn't.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Starfleet is not a military. The Federation has no military. Yes Starfleet is armed. Yes they participate in armed conflicts. But Starfleet is clearly not a standing military. Starfleet is a militia. There is a big difference.
A standing army is a professional army composed of full time soldiers that is not disbanded during times of peace.
Every character in every Star Trek series was not a full time soldier. You will not see families on board an aircraft carrier. But you do see families on board Starfleet vessels. That is because Starfleet ships are only converted to combat use during times of crisis. Examples of this have been seen repeatedly. But once the conflict is over, they are once again reconverted to their civilian oriented status, which is a key part of a MILITIA.
Starfleet is not a military. The Federation has no military. Yes Starfleet is armed. Yes they participate in armed conflicts. But Starfleet is clearly not a standing military. Starfleet is a militia. There is a big difference.
A standing army is a professional army composed of full time soldiers that is not disbanded during times of peace.
Every character in every Star Trek series was not a full time soldier. You will not see families on board an aircraft carrier. But you do see families on board Starfleet vessels. That is because Starfleet ships are only converted to combat use during times of crisis. Examples of this have been seen repeatedly. But once the conflict is over, they are once again reconverted to their civilian oriented status, which is a key part of a MILITIA.
The key defining aspect of a non-military Militia is in how it's NOT centrally funded. It's funded by it's (volunteer) members. Starfleet officers literally get almost everything from the government.
It is quite true that Starfleet does more than JUST wars, but so do RL militaries.
Full time soldiers huh, Well do you think the Admirals are part time?
I'm sure their regular jobs include gardening and pottery
Regardless of Families being aboard, Starfleet vessels are Warships, they are designed to engage in combat at (the metaphorical) sea, definition of a warship being "A ship equipped with weapons and designed to take part in warfare at sea."
What Starfleet calls them matters very little, every other faction in the Star Trek world will recognise these vessels as Warships and frequently treats them accordingly
Its is not a Paramilitary, they are commissioned Officers NOT civilians, Incidentally this gets us back on the OP topic of Uniforms which they wear in their line of duty
Its also not a Militia, Starfleet Officers hold a Commissioned Rank, these aren't civilians drafted in for an emergency to suppliment the regular Military , these are career Officers who live and breath the life of a Starfleet officer, they spend years in an Academy to get a commission
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
That wouldn't help since uniform slots can be coloured pink and green, contain winter cloaks etc.
Won't happen, now that you "buff" people with disco balls.:rolleyes: Cryptic has always been way too goon-friendly.
Yeah. The funny thing is, I realize I've spent more than the average customer. I've come around on lockboxes. I basically suggested Lobi. I enjoy grinding. I've written Foundry missions. I interviewed for a job with Cryptic and made it through a few rounds of screening; frankly, I think I'd be a candidate very much in the vein of John Layman. I pitched the exact concept of Featured Episodes back in beta and, in particular, What Lies Beneath basically came straight from a post I made on the forums. I get along with their senior management and really felt like I've connected with a few employees there at outside events, like Thomas and the late, great Mark Valentine.
I like wacky things. My WoW character was an engineer. I used to argue against the lorelol posts there that WoW lore itself was wacky. I have nearly 20 years of experiences playing and managing online RPGs.
And, yet, at the end of the day, there's a mentality that always creeps up. It's fratboyish. I see it in a lot of geek fields, including comics. It's what you might call the source of goon friendliness. It seems like it peaks at a senior middle management level in gaming and comics and entertainment. And it drives me nuts because I know I could have a beer or coffee with these guys and geek out about 90s comic books or Star Trek. But I'm going to butt heads with them on design and policy. I'm sure there are people at Cryptic who read some of my posts and wince not because they disagree but because I'm expressing them as a forum rant and I don't know the inside story, yadda, yadda, yadda.
But it's that geek passive aggressiveness that I have a distaste for. It reminds me of that scene in the Robert Redford movie, The Last Castle, where the warden throws a single basketball out onto the prison basketball court because he delights in watching the inmates fight, because it establishes in his mind that they are inferior and easy to control. When you see it in that movie, you know instantly that the warden is the villain and you're rooting for Robert Redford to take over the prison.
But I think a lot of real people take the warden's perspective on this. They really do delight in throwing that basketball out onto the court. And it pains me to know that many of them are guys I'd probably be have a good time with in a bar. And it pains me that their supervisors, guys I admire for much of their approach, let that happen.
It's not JUST Cryptic but I've felt enough of an affinity for the guys at Cryptic over the last ten years since I met them at SDCC, before they even launched City of Heroes... I legitimately like some of these guys enough that it manages to wound me every time I see the goon or goon tolerant mentality surface. Every. Single. Time.
Eventually I'm going to wise up and know better.
Still, Matt "Positron" Miller and Jesse Heinig have been doing a bang up job on content. Most of the recent remastering (like the Fed tutorial) has been Matt. And I want to see what they're doing for this expansion. I really do.
That's the side that keeps me coming back for more. But it's a push and pull for me. Cryptic has a side to the way they do things that pushes me away and they have a side that pulls me in. And eventually one of those forces will win out. But it will stay in flux for me so long as they cultivate those two sides.
Comments
Oh, the irony...
Because a Wiki says so?
See previous statement about walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
You know I was in the Navy 10 years so I know how the military is organized...every facet of Starfleet is copied from the military.
But like I said, if you guys want to keep pretending it's not....hey...no skin off of my nose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Merchant_Marine
Is the police the armed forces of a country?
Are they armed? Yes
Are their actions sanctioned by a recongised government? Yes
:rolleyes:
Give me a call when the police are attacking or defending against attacks from foreign powers.
Yeah, but can you back that up with a link to someone who matters?
http://www.navy.com
Not to mention the Federal Air Marshals, the VIPR, FBI, and CIA. All of which are armed, and not part of the military.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_crisis
Not nearly as silly as the folks making threads like this which boil down to "DERP....STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE....DERP"
And yet another goober who can't actually say why it would be bad.
You're the one going around calling everyone "goobers".
So wait, a link to a wiki that contains behind the scenes discussions with someone who is now dead (and therefore can't be interviewed anymore) is not enough evidence that something is fact.
Yet, I have yet to see you post one link, one clip, one anything were anyone flat out said Starfleet was a miltary organization.
That my friend is a double standard.
It has been well stated numerous times, that GENE RODDENBERRY, was adamant that Starfleet was NOT a military organization. In fact I remember reading somewhere that Gene actually hated the TWOK uniforms because they looked to militaristic. Which is why we have the styles we have. But that is most likely from the same wiki you are disregarding.
So as far as I am concerned you are just refusing to face facts, because they do not support what you want. If you want to feel free to prove me wrong, by all means link me to something that says Starfleet is a military organization. Till then, I will continue to say it is not, and not be embarrassed by it in the least.
aloishammer was making a joke.
My apologies to aloishammer. I quoted the wrong post, My reply was meant to be in response to this quote.
And this one too.
Everything else I said stands. You can't ask someone to quote a link to "someone who matters" and refuse to do the same to support your position.
Fine, here you go.
The amount of work spent to create a filtering protocol is out of the line of possibility, the devs have said many times that they can't make it so your crew in your ship interior wears a user set uniforms. Now take that an multiply the complexity many times to account for the plethora of user created uniforms, ship builds, alien species, which would have to be matched against some set specification and applied to match some other set of "approved" specification. Further more, unless you wanted hundreds of clones taking the place of the offending characters they would have to make some sort of randomization protocol to replace the character's look with one you'd find appropriate, and they'd need separate ones for every species, class, and gender combination.
Let's even go deeper. how would you "filter" this, is the Mirror Universe out but a Lime Green Serra uniform okay? How about a perfectly replicated Original Series Uniform, it's still over a hundred years out of date, some one wearing it would be almost as silly as someone in the modern US army wearing a Revolutionary War uniform while on duty.
Now on to custom aliens, what would be acceptable there? There are many aliens from Star Trek that are not selectable but can be made in as custom aliens. How would this filter distinguish between someone using a custom alien to make a Cardassian, or even better, one of the countless aliens that made one unnamed appearance in the background of an episode and the silly bug eyed monsters some make?
For the gear, we have NPC guards wearing armor and I'm sure I've seen some NPCs with things that look like the kits which means that the armor looks, which even I admit looks more like something from Mass Effect than Trek, and kits are, as far as STO is concerned, "appropriate" for our officers to wear.
Now let's say they DID make something like this. All of these multiple variables would have to be running on top of the game as is. If these forums and Zone chat are any indication keeping things running is a fragile enough balance as they are without dozens, if not hundreds, more processes going on.
These last points are purely personal opinion and included for the sake of completeness feel free to disregard them.
You're asking the very devs who made all these parts to hide their own content, now I'll grant that this might not count as "bad" to you but I'd find the request rude. You wouldn't going to an art gallery and ask the artist to put a sheet over some of their work because you don't like it, would you?
Also many of those costume parts you're asking the devs to hide are part of the C-Store and therefore part of what keeps the game funded, everyone running around in a Mirror Universe Uniform is a walking billboard for Zen sales.
So you're still really fuzzy on the definition of "someone who matters" in regard to what Starfleet was suppose to be. Got it.
Don't sweat it, I didn't.
Actually, you can. The catch is that it demonstrates more about your own position than it does about anything else.
Any of these organizations use Court-martials?
Because Starfleet does, and thats pretty much a military thing.
If they can Court-martial, they're a military organization no matter what anyone says.
I clearly remember Starfleet defending Earth against the Borg. I don't remember any Earth military ships, probably because they doesn't exist anymore, and Starfleet is the "army" now.
In fact, they are the only military Earth have, for example, and they totally act like one. They are not called military, that's all. You can call a potato an apple if you want to, it will still be a potato.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Except that means different things depending on where you are. Egypt allows civilians to be tried in martial courts.
Starfleet is not a military. The Federation has no military. Yes Starfleet is armed. Yes they participate in armed conflicts. But Starfleet is clearly not a standing military. Starfleet is a militia. There is a big difference.
A standing army is a professional army composed of full time soldiers that is not disbanded during times of peace.
Every character in every Star Trek series was not a full time soldier. You will not see families on board an aircraft carrier. But you do see families on board Starfleet vessels. That is because Starfleet ships are only converted to combat use during times of crisis. Examples of this have been seen repeatedly. But once the conflict is over, they are once again reconverted to their civilian oriented status, which is a key part of a MILITIA.
Star. Fleet. Is. Not. A. Military.
(the claim that Starfleet isn't a military is absolutely laughable)
Because people don't read.
Oh, I can read. You're just wrong.
It is quite true that Starfleet does more than JUST wars, but so do RL militaries.
My character Tsin'xing
I'm sure their regular jobs include gardening and pottery
Regardless of Families being aboard, Starfleet vessels are Warships, they are designed to engage in combat at (the metaphorical) sea, definition of a warship being "A ship equipped with weapons and designed to take part in warfare at sea."
What Starfleet calls them matters very little, every other faction in the Star Trek world will recognise these vessels as Warships and frequently treats them accordingly
Its is not a Paramilitary, they are commissioned Officers NOT civilians, Incidentally this gets us back on the OP topic of Uniforms which they wear in their line of duty
Its also not a Militia, Starfleet Officers hold a Commissioned Rank, these aren't civilians drafted in for an emergency to suppliment the regular Military , these are career Officers who live and breath the life of a Starfleet officer, they spend years in an Academy to get a commission
Yeah. The funny thing is, I realize I've spent more than the average customer. I've come around on lockboxes. I basically suggested Lobi. I enjoy grinding. I've written Foundry missions. I interviewed for a job with Cryptic and made it through a few rounds of screening; frankly, I think I'd be a candidate very much in the vein of John Layman. I pitched the exact concept of Featured Episodes back in beta and, in particular, What Lies Beneath basically came straight from a post I made on the forums. I get along with their senior management and really felt like I've connected with a few employees there at outside events, like Thomas and the late, great Mark Valentine.
I like wacky things. My WoW character was an engineer. I used to argue against the lorelol posts there that WoW lore itself was wacky. I have nearly 20 years of experiences playing and managing online RPGs.
And, yet, at the end of the day, there's a mentality that always creeps up. It's fratboyish. I see it in a lot of geek fields, including comics. It's what you might call the source of goon friendliness. It seems like it peaks at a senior middle management level in gaming and comics and entertainment. And it drives me nuts because I know I could have a beer or coffee with these guys and geek out about 90s comic books or Star Trek. But I'm going to butt heads with them on design and policy. I'm sure there are people at Cryptic who read some of my posts and wince not because they disagree but because I'm expressing them as a forum rant and I don't know the inside story, yadda, yadda, yadda.
But it's that geek passive aggressiveness that I have a distaste for. It reminds me of that scene in the Robert Redford movie, The Last Castle, where the warden throws a single basketball out onto the prison basketball court because he delights in watching the inmates fight, because it establishes in his mind that they are inferior and easy to control. When you see it in that movie, you know instantly that the warden is the villain and you're rooting for Robert Redford to take over the prison.
But I think a lot of real people take the warden's perspective on this. They really do delight in throwing that basketball out onto the court. And it pains me to know that many of them are guys I'd probably be have a good time with in a bar. And it pains me that their supervisors, guys I admire for much of their approach, let that happen.
It's not JUST Cryptic but I've felt enough of an affinity for the guys at Cryptic over the last ten years since I met them at SDCC, before they even launched City of Heroes... I legitimately like some of these guys enough that it manages to wound me every time I see the goon or goon tolerant mentality surface. Every. Single. Time.
Eventually I'm going to wise up and know better.
Still, Matt "Positron" Miller and Jesse Heinig have been doing a bang up job on content. Most of the recent remastering (like the Fed tutorial) has been Matt. And I want to see what they're doing for this expansion. I really do.
That's the side that keeps me coming back for more. But it's a push and pull for me. Cryptic has a side to the way they do things that pushes me away and they have a side that pulls me in. And eventually one of those forces will win out. But it will stay in flux for me so long as they cultivate those two sides.