As always, so many people making out like a 2.5% proc chance is a game changer. Too many people love to try and focus on min/maxing in STO and its just fail. Primarily because you don't need it, but also because min/max builds are incredibly boring, and finally because ACT is grossly inaccurate. Yet people still revolve their builds around it.
The only energy types that should be considered 'better' than tetryon are Romulan plasma, disruptors in general, and antiproton. All the others only make a negligible difference on anything, unless you are extremely lucky.
Half of what people say about tetryon is at best, just bad theory.
Like saying refracting tetryon is good for use with grav wells. Its not. The refraction proc is the worst proc ever invented on any weapon type ever. Its good for nothing. Why people comment when they don't actually really know about something is beyond me. I find it frustrating.
Or like someone earlier said the Hirogen Tetryon cannon is bad. Its really not. It does not lose any damage over range at all. It hits hard, all the time and has a 180 arc. Its a decent weapon. And it gives you one half of a damage boost 2 piece bonus.
Or finally like saying when shields are down the proc is wasted. Anyway, it won't change so whatever.
Here are some factors that make tetryon viable -
- Cheaper than most other types
- Nukara space set has been tweaked and is now a very good space set indeed. The 3 piece set bonus is a tetryon based attack which would be boosted by tetryon tac consoles
- Nukara tier 5 rep attack, is also tetryon based, and would again be boosted by tetryon tac consoles
- 2 console sets to boost damage.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
As always, so many people making out like a 2.5% proc chance is a game changer. Too many people love to try and focus on min/maxing in STO and its just fail. Primarily because you don't need it, but also because min/max builds are incredibly boring, and finally because ACT is grossly inaccurate. Yet people still revolve their builds around it.
The only energy types that should be considered 'better' than tetryon are Romulan plasma, disruptors in general, and antiproton. All the others only make a negligible difference on anything, unless you are extremely lucky.
Half of what people say about tetryon is at best, just bad theory.
Like saying refracting tetryon is good for use with grav wells. Its not. The refraction proc is the worst proc ever invented on any weapon type ever. Its good for nothing. Why people comment when they don't actually really know about something is beyond me. I find it frustrating.
Or like someone earlier said the Hirogen Tetryon cannon is bad. Its really not. It does not lose any damage over range at all. It hits hard, all the time and has a 180 arc. Its a decent weapon. And it gives you one half of a damage boost 2 piece bonus.
Or finally like saying when shields are down the proc is wasted. Anyway, it won't change so whatever.
Here are some factors that make tetryon viable -
- Cheaper than most other types
- Nukara space set has been tweaked and is now a very good space set indeed. The 3 piece set bonus is a tetryon based attack which would be boosted by tetryon tac consoles
- Nukara tier 5 rep attack, is also tetryon based, and would again be boosted by tetryon tac consoles
- 2 console sets to boost damage.
How exactly is the Refracting shot useless? It's essentially a free hit against an enemy 5km away from the initial target. Saying that it's the worst ever doesn't really mean much if you don't provide evidence, bro.
There's nothing wrong with Tetyron. It's good to use if youre using the Nukara set.
.
No, wrong. As i said, i tried with the nukara set and the apex one, nothing, nada, no effective results. And of course i even have flow capacitors maxed (yes, 9 bars..). Tetryons were still useless, compared with any other weapon. They have been broken since ages. But meh, everybody can use em, if they like it. The only difference will be you will waste a lot more time killing your targets. Thats all.
I even considered to hold on with my tetryon build and try to enjoy using my tetryon weapons, but in elite mode is just embarrasing. Its like firing with holografic weapons. Seriously. lol. I had no choice but discard em.
But i was sure before i tried the nukara and the apex set that it will be useless anyways, since i already tested tetryons with a plain build with no sets, and the results were the same. Terrific.
How exactly is the Refracting shot useless? It's essentially a free hit against an enemy 5km away from the initial target. Saying that it's the worst ever doesn't really mean much if you don't provide evidence, bro.
Because the quantity of refracted energy is so small, that makes the proc just useless. I already did my tests as well with refracting tetryons. It doesnt make any difference.
The reason why the number of refracted shots is so slow is the same reason procs aren't that big a deal: proc chance. That said, the proc itself (when it procs) is a free, slightly weaker extra shot against a target 5km away from the main target. I don't see how this proc is any useless.
Or finally like saying when shields are down the proc is wasted.
There's a difference between saying when shields are down and when a target has no shields.
A Tetryon proc does nothing against a Borg Gate...that has no shields to affect. Doen't mean that you can't see the proc happen against the Tac Cube, the Spheres/Nanite Spheres, Cubes - but that if there's no shields on the target, you shouldn't expect a shield proc to do anything.
Which is where the Tetryon proc is useless...anywhere else, the same thing that would make the Tet proc useless is likely making all the procs useless. You know, like procs are useless against targets that have already been blown up.
Typical STO formus alarmist propaganda again... Carry on...
Edit: Refracting Tets are amazing in the right builds.
Post logs.
Not arguing that refracting tets are nice, since I enjoy using them on my science builds, but I don't believe they can stand up to antiproton, disruptor, or plasma.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Seems odd trying to prove an "I do this better than I do that."
My point is not that tets are the best, or would out damage weapons that specifically have a DPS proc.
My point is if I'm reaching 20k in them, as a science in an Atrox, they can't be that broken.
Anecdotally, my DPS jumped 2k the very first run when I replaced my romulan plasma with refracting tet, and as I worked my build the gap grew even more. I don't own a good set of AP or disruptor beams for comparison, but the romulan plasma kinda covers disruptor, anyway.
I haven't even updated this link since I broke it's record for 20,465, as I don't have an obsessive need to prove my abilities to strangers on the internet and once I broke 20k I was satiated and went back to canon fun builds, but if you insist:
I have the fleet version now and a handful more upgrades, just I stopped flying her. I finally got a Recluse (which I surprisingly don't fly that much) and the Fleet Dreadnought is like my dream ship from the canon. Between the 2 of them I'm not sure my Catbox will see the light of day again...
And that was before I even had my 6th space doff... And I was still using purple mk 10 tet consoles as opposed to mk 12 plasma consoles... and before I had my Nukara set... Or room for my Isometric Charge...
Edit2: I see where it shows that tetryon refractions only did like 33 DPS. Yeah. If I use standard tets (That get an extra mod, even) I lose a couple K. My best guess is some of those refractions parse thru as standard hits.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
We're talking about the practical battlefield use of a tetryon build vs other weapons, and the point I made still stands.
Assuming 100% proc and 0 crit chance, no rng damage just one flat numerical output
assuming an enemy casting cycling heals and cleanses, both hull and shield
Assuming the same modifiers and console support, weapons loadout and ship shields/deflector/engine
Assuming the same extent of spec into proc and energy weapon alike
If we took ships with these identical loadouts, one of each energy type, and each got its own borg cube or other common target to shoot at, In this scenario, the tetryon ship's target would be the last to die every time.
The proc simply isn't useful as often as the other types'. It doesn't supplement your output nearly as much as any of the others do. Your weapons are supposed to damage your opponents, and tetryons are the type that does that in the least efficient manner.
We're talking about the practical battlefield use of a tetryon build vs other weapons, and the point I made still stands.
Assuming 100% proc and 0 crit chance, no rng damage just one flat numerical output
assuming an enemy casting cycling heals and cleanses, both hull and shield
Assuming the same modifiers and console support, weapons loadout and ship shields/deflector/engine
Assuming the same extent of spec into proc and energy weapon alike
If we took ships with these identical loadouts, one of each energy type, and each got its own borg cube or other common target to shoot at, In this scenario, the tetryon ship's target would be the last to die every time.
The proc simply isn't useful as often as the other types'. It doesn't supplement your output nearly as much as any of the others do. Your weapons are supposed to damage your opponents, and tetryons are the type that does that in the least efficient manner.
If that is true, then how can I go from romulan plasma with purple mk 12 tactical consoles, and all of them being single beams for maximum uptime, to doing more damage straight up when I go to 4 refracting tet + DBB and mk 10 tactical consoles, only other difference being switching the zero point for the nukara console? It was not the accuracy boost (ACC overflow has been broken for BFAW for ages, and I sit around 99.99 accuracy when parsed with or without the +10% console. I'm not getting several K because of accuracy)
Parses don't lie, tooltips and theory craft does. Well, they can lie, but they tend to still be more accurate.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
How exactly is the Refracting shot useless? It's essentially a free hit against an enemy 5km away from the initial target. Saying that it's the worst ever doesn't really mean much if you don't provide evidence, bro.
Well 'bro', its the most useless proc ever. Ever. If you need me to explain it, then here.
The proc only has a 2.5% chance same as all procs, and thats if you happen to be hitting an enemy with a friend within 5km of him. Even when it does proc, it does a normal hit yes, subject to normal shields/resists as well. In other words pathetic. Especially if you are attacking a single target, it basically might as well not have a proc at all.
I'm not going to waffle about why every other proc is better, its fairly obvious.
Having parsed these weapons numerous times, back when Nukara rep was new and i bought a few of these without really thinking it through, I can tell you, they truly suck.
I actually vendored them for bank space. Had to, before they turned into a MUTO and tried to find a mate.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
Because the quantity of refracted energy is so small, that makes the proc just useless. I already did my tests as well with refracting tetryons. It doesnt make any difference.
Did you try the DBB with 100% chance to reflect and high reflect damage? Didn't someone work it out as a 20% damage difference for that one weapon. I see you skipped over all the evidence proving you are wrong and are flat out ignoring the points I brought up. Could it be you know you are wrong and are just wanted to refuse the truth?
I am still waiting to hear from you how I can kill faster with disruptors. All the evidence I have seen shows disruptors kill much slower. Every time I swap to disruptors kill time gets much worse. I already proved disruptors deal less damage.
Well 'bro', its the most useless proc ever. Ever. If you need me to explain it, then here.
The proc only has a 2.5% chance same as all procs, and thats if you happen to be hitting an enemy with a friend within 5km of him. Even when it does proc, it does a normal hit yes, subject to normal shields/resists as well. In other words pathetic. Especially if you are attacking a single target, it basically might as well not have a proc at all.
I'm not going to waffle about why every other proc is better, its fairly obvious.
Having parsed these weapons numerous times, back when Nukara rep was new and i bought a few of these without really thinking it through, I can tell you, they truly suck.
I actually vendored them for bank space. Had to, before they turned into a MUTO and tried to find a mate.
Back when you parsed these weapons the weapons where broken. They do far more damage now. I know some reflect are 2.5% chance but what about the 100% chance DBB?
If that is true, then how can I go from romulan plasma with purple mk 12 tactical consoles, and all of them being single beams for maximum uptime, to doing more damage straight up when I go to 4 refracting tet + DBB and mk 10 tactical consoles, only other difference being switching the zero point for the nukara console? It was not the accuracy boost (ACC overflow has been broken for BFAW for ages, and I sit around 99.99 accuracy when parsed with or without the +10% console. I'm not getting several K because of accuracy)
Parses don't lie, tooltips and theory craft does. Well, they can lie, but they tend to still be more accurate.
Seriously? Anecdotal Dps parsing as a measure of effectiveness is idiotic, especially because I doubt your parser differentiates between refraction proc dps output onto other targets, which doesn't kill your primary target any faster and skews your parse to look like you're doing more than you are. Damage gets undone in combat. I want single target kill time. That's what matters here, not the amount of ticks you can put out in a given amount of time.
Edit: I should mention, even then, romplas is specifically bad to compare to something like tetryon because your tet spec will already be running flow caps in the science slots, which means you might as well run embassy +pla consoles in those slots, which is going to boost your romplas output even more than the tets with the added plasma proc. You're giving up too much to occassionally plink a repair-able amount to a target that won't always be there for your spec to be a worthwhile investment.
I've never had somebody seen me flying with my tets and think I sucked... ever... :cool:
I'm honestly not saying you suck or anyone else. I never build what everyone else builds because its boring as hell.
I like tetryon, as i said in an earlier post. Just like i love disruptor, phaser and Romulan plasma. And phaser isn't even that good compared to some, but i just like the canon and a lot of fed stuff uses phaser damage.
Ok ill leave it as, "personally i dislike refracting tet, more than anything else. When i use tet weapons i use destabilising because i like them".
If you enjoy them, then that's all that matters.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
Seriously? Anecdotal Dps parsing as a measure of effectiveness is idiotic, especially because I doubt your parser differentiates between refraction proc dps output onto other targets, which doesn't kill your primary target any faster and skews your parse to look like you're doing more than you are. Damage gets undone in combat. I want single target kill time. That's what matters here, not the amount of ticks you can put out in a given amount of time.
Single target kill isnt what matters most of the time. Well it depends what are doing but for most content group killing power is what matters the most. I like to time how long it takes to kill a group in Azure nebula.
Well 'bro', its the most useless proc ever. Ever. If you need me to explain it, then here.
The proc only has a 2.5% chance same as all procs, and thats if you happen to be hitting an enemy with a friend within 5km of him. Even when it does proc, it does a normal hit yes, subject to normal shields/resists as well. In other words pathetic. Especially if you are attacking a single target, it basically might as well not have a proc at all.
I'm not going to waffle about why every other proc is better, its fairly obvious.
Having parsed these weapons numerous times, back when Nukara rep was new and i bought a few of these without really thinking it through, I can tell you, they truly suck.
I actually vendored them for bank space. Had to, before they turned into a MUTO and tried to find a mate.
So, you think they're broken because they have a 2.5% chance of hitting an extra target within 5km with an extra shot that... behaves EXACTLY like the same shot you took? Because beams and cannons are also subject to normal shields/resists as well. So, if the proc is pathetic, so is every directed energy weapon in the game.
The proc is useful in the right situations (which, given most probes and spheres spawn in groups of three (3) or more, it's almost always right) and in those right situations, it shines. That said, the refracting proc IMHO should be a 25% chance to proc on crit like the Voth AP and Protonic Polarons. It essentially BEHAVES like a Protonic Polaron only it hits an extra target.
Single target kill isnt what matters most of the time. Well it depends what are doing but for most content group killing power is what matters the most. I like to time how long it takes to kill a group in Azure nebula.
The absolute lowest possible Single target kill time is the primary goal of any weapon type. ANR is a good example of where refracting tetryon would be useful, but 5 ships firing bfaw/csv romplas vs the same five ships using the same bfaw/csv but with tetryons will still melt that group faster. There's nothing you gain in a trade from romplas to any kind of tetryon.
Back when you parsed these weapons the weapons where broken. They do far more damage now. I know some reflect are 2.5% chance but what about the 100% chance DBB?
How do they do 'far more damage'? Im genuinely curious.
The DBB is an exception, as it has a different proc, in that it procs 100% of the time. Even that still isn't great, as again, single target it basically does nothing.
Its AOE basically, and AOE is for scrubs. Anyone should be able to put together a half decent AOE build that can do 20k AOE DPS without really trying. All it takes is a minimal amount of thought. Its merely for people to erect their epeens over in a PVE mission. Now don't get me wrong, i enjoy PVE more than anything, but i realise its easy enough in general, that what DPS i can manage doesn't really matter.
People that do AOE damage and then say "yeah my ship does 60k DPS". No it doesn't. It annoys me and its one of the reasons i hate parsing in this game, its so inaccurate yet people live by it and revolve their builds around it.
Then again, this game is about choice, if people enjoy playing that way then good on them.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
So, you think they're broken because they have a 2.5% chance of hitting an extra target within 5km with an extra shot that... behaves EXACTLY like the same shot you took? Because beams and cannons are also subject to normal shields/resists as well. So, if the proc is pathetic, so is every directed energy weapon in the game.
The proc is useful in the right situations (which, given most probes and spheres spawn in groups of three (3) or more, it's almost always right) and in those right situations, it shines. That said, the refracting proc IMHO should be a 25% chance to proc on crit like the Voth AP and Protonic Polarons. It essentially BEHAVES like a Protonic Polaron only it hits an extra target.
Wow, great straw man, and way to blow what i said out of context.
Mate you are being argumentative for the sake of it. Seriously, if you bought refracting tets, then i feel for you. Every other proc in the game is better.
If you enjoy them, then fair play, its your game.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
Wow, great straw man, and way to blow what i said out of context.
Mate you are being argumentative for the sake of it. Seriously, if you bought refracting tets, then i feel for you. Every other proc in the game is better.
If you enjoy them, then fair play, its your game.
Considering my Aves-class runs Refracting Tetryons and does extremely well, don't feel for me.
But it's OK if you don't wish to refute what I've stated. Someone else did the same in this thread.
You only said it sucked because... it's a proc that is an extra attack that is subject to shield and hull resistances. Literally what every other directed energy attack (even proc!) does. Plasma DoT AFAIK is subject to hull resistances. Protonic proc from Protonic Polaron is AFAIK subject to hull resistances.
But in the end, an extra attack is an extra attack. An attack that is, yes, subject to shield and hull resistances, but also subject to shield and hull debuffs. So when that APB and Sensor Scan debuff cripple my target's defenses (APB affects every target shot with my weapons, Sensor Scan is an AoE damage resistance debuff, and my targets were most probably being repelled by a Gravity Well) that proc when it DOES land will do wonders.
The absolute lowest possible Single target kill time is the primary goal of any weapon type. ANR is a good example of where refracting tetryon would be useful, but 5 ships firing bfaw/csv romplas vs the same five ships using the same bfaw/csv but with tetryons will still melt that group faster. There's nothing you gain in a trade from romplas to any kind of tetryon.
I don’t really agree. There are times when you want single target kill time but that isn't the primary goal of all weapons.
For example I was testing some weapons yesterday for some build ideas and the weapons that killed single targets faster where the lowest DPS and slowest killing weapons to use. The other weapons which killed single targets slower killed a group of ships faster.
The weapon that killed the first ship the fastest took 59 seconds to kill the group. The weapon that took longer to kill the first ship killed the group in 43 seconds. Averaged out over multiple runs. (Kill time was slow as I only used pairs of weapons for the testing)
Seriously? Anecdotal Dps parsing as a measure of effectiveness is idiotic, especially because I doubt your parser differentiates between refraction proc dps output onto other targets, which doesn't kill your primary target any faster and skews your parse to look like you're doing more than you are. Damage gets undone in combat. I want single target kill time. That's what matters here, not the amount of ticks you can put out in a given amount of time.
Edit: I should mention, even then, romplas is specifically bad to compare to something like tetryon because your tet spec will already be running flow caps in the science slots, which means you might as well run embassy +pla consoles in those slots, which is going to boost your romplas output even more than the tets with the added plasma proc. You're giving up too much to occassionally plink a repair-able amount to a target that won't always be there for your spec to be a worthwhile investment.
So no, your parse means nothing.
So... you poo poo my parse, but you didn't even see what I was using before spouting off about my consoles (might want to check, you will look sheepish...) I use the same science consoles with both the tets and the romplas. I don't stack flowcap, I stack partgen.
And I will assume you didn't look at the rest of the build, either, which makes the first part of your post simply hilarious.
I assure you, my AE damage is effective...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
I dont really agree. There are times when you want single target kill time but that isn't the primary goal of all weapons.
For example I was testing some weapons yesterday for some build ideas and the weapons that killed single targets faster where the lowest DPS and slowest killing weapons to use. The other weapons which killed single targets slower killed a group of ships faster.
The weapon that killed the first ship the fastest took 59 seconds to kill the group. The weapon that took longer to kill the first ship killed the group in 43 seconds. Averaged out over multiple runs.
That makes 0 sense, I would think you're trolling but you're being civil enough.
You want something dead, that's why you're shooting at it. There is no tactical advantage from it being around longer at that point. Your weapons are there to make your target go away, not rack up parser points so you can make the pugs in your stf aware of their inferiority to you.
As for single-target vs group damage, consider this. 5 on 5 refracting tets vs rom plas, identical builds, the same standard non-varying rolls I mentioned ~3 posts back. Yes, the refracting tets team will assist each other in superficial, reparable damage output in the fray, but because of the DOT/Debuff nature of the rom plas teams' weapons, their targets will go down faster, the refracting team will be whittled down faster, they'll lose their supplimental team damage where as the rom plas team's will increase as their targets go down faster and they can start focusing sooner. And this is just rom plas. Compared to an AP team with these same circumstances? It would be a sweep.
Considering my Aves-class runs Refracting Tetryons and does extremely well, don't feel for me.
But it's OK if you don't wish to refute what I've stated. Someone else did the same in this thread.
You only said it sucked because... it's a proc that is an extra attack that is subject to shield and hull resistances. Literally what every other directed energy attack (even proc!) does. Plasma DoT AFAIK is subject to hull resistances. Protonic proc from Protonic Polaron is AFAIK subject to hull resistances.
But in the end, an extra attack is an extra attack. An attack that is, yes, subject to shield and hull resistances, but also subject to shield and hull debuffs. So when that APB and Sensor Scan debuff cripple my target's defenses (APB affects every target shot with my weapons, Sensor Scan is an AoE damage resistance debuff, and my targets were most probably being repelled by a Gravity Well) that proc when it DOES land will do wonders.
Mate, you just cant let it go.
First of all you didn't read anything i said so far. All you described is one reason why refracting tet is so bad. You are showing your lack of knowledge now.
First of all let me just point out you are wrong, the plasma burn on Romulan plasma ignores shields, so it already instantly beats refracting tet.
I didn't want to compare because i do like other tetryon weapons, but i will. Its only the refracting ones i think are so bad.
My Romulan plasma proc does 79 plasma damage every second for 15 seconds, that ignores shields. So thats about 1200 dmg straight into the hull.
Your refracting tet does 300 ish damage on a beam array, to a target within 5km if there is one, that then is resisted by shields and hull. So just one of my procs is worth 4 of yours maybe 3 if your procs do more than the ones i was looking at.
No need to get into the other procs, the tet shield damage one the rom plasma disruptor one too, they are both ok.
But that there is a loss to me. Especially if you are single target DPS against a enemy with no other targets within 5km. Its basically no proc for you at all.
As i said earlier, each to their own, if you enjoy using them then thats great, the game should be about fun. But you just cannot compare that proc to any others. Its TRIBBLE. Especially when you have to lose a weapon modifer to make way for it. Its terrible. At least Romulan plasma has 2 good procs to make it worth it.
Procs should never be relied on anyway, ever. Which is what makes the refracting one so bad. Not only does it rely on the 2.5% chance, it relies on the principle there is another enemy within 5km.
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
Comments
I think we are finally getting somewhere!
CM
The only energy types that should be considered 'better' than tetryon are Romulan plasma, disruptors in general, and antiproton. All the others only make a negligible difference on anything, unless you are extremely lucky.
Half of what people say about tetryon is at best, just bad theory.
Like saying refracting tetryon is good for use with grav wells. Its not. The refraction proc is the worst proc ever invented on any weapon type ever. Its good for nothing. Why people comment when they don't actually really know about something is beyond me. I find it frustrating.
Or like someone earlier said the Hirogen Tetryon cannon is bad. Its really not. It does not lose any damage over range at all. It hits hard, all the time and has a 180 arc. Its a decent weapon. And it gives you one half of a damage boost 2 piece bonus.
Or finally like saying when shields are down the proc is wasted. Anyway, it won't change so whatever.
Here are some factors that make tetryon viable -
- Cheaper than most other types
- Nukara space set has been tweaked and is now a very good space set indeed. The 3 piece set bonus is a tetryon based attack which would be boosted by tetryon tac consoles
- Nukara tier 5 rep attack, is also tetryon based, and would again be boosted by tetryon tac consoles
- 2 console sets to boost damage.
No, wrong. As i said, i tried with the nukara set and the apex one, nothing, nada, no effective results. And of course i even have flow capacitors maxed (yes, 9 bars..). Tetryons were still useless, compared with any other weapon. They have been broken since ages. But meh, everybody can use em, if they like it. The only difference will be you will waste a lot more time killing your targets. Thats all.
I even considered to hold on with my tetryon build and try to enjoy using my tetryon weapons, but in elite mode is just embarrasing. Its like firing with holografic weapons. Seriously. lol. I had no choice but discard em.
But i was sure before i tried the nukara and the apex set that it will be useless anyways, since i already tested tetryons with a plain build with no sets, and the results were the same. Terrific.
Because the quantity of refracted energy is so small, that makes the proc just useless. I already did my tests as well with refracting tetryons. It doesnt make any difference.
There's a difference between saying when shields are down and when a target has no shields.
A Tetryon proc does nothing against a Borg Gate...that has no shields to affect. Doen't mean that you can't see the proc happen against the Tac Cube, the Spheres/Nanite Spheres, Cubes - but that if there's no shields on the target, you shouldn't expect a shield proc to do anything.
Which is where the Tetryon proc is useless...anywhere else, the same thing that would make the Tet proc useless is likely making all the procs useless. You know, like procs are useless against targets that have already been blown up.
My current DPS records are all in tetryon!
Oh wait... That... Would mean...
Typical STO formus alarmist propaganda again... Carry on...
Edit: Refracting Tets are amazing in the right builds.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Post logs.
Not arguing that refracting tets are nice, since I enjoy using them on my science builds, but I don't believe they can stand up to antiproton, disruptor, or plasma.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
My point is not that tets are the best, or would out damage weapons that specifically have a DPS proc.
My point is if I'm reaching 20k in them, as a science in an Atrox, they can't be that broken.
Anecdotally, my DPS jumped 2k the very first run when I replaced my romulan plasma with refracting tet, and as I worked my build the gap grew even more. I don't own a good set of AP or disruptor beams for comparison, but the romulan plasma kinda covers disruptor, anyway.
I haven't even updated this link since I broke it's record for 20,465, as I don't have an obsessive need to prove my abilities to strangers on the internet and once I broke 20k I was satiated and went back to canon fun builds, but if you insist:
http://stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/index.php?build=thecatbox_5664
I have the fleet version now and a handful more upgrades, just I stopped flying her. I finally got a Recluse (which I surprisingly don't fly that much) and the Fleet Dreadnought is like my dream ship from the canon. Between the 2 of them I'm not sure my Catbox will see the light of day again...
Edit: forgot to mention, parse is in the notes tab: http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/g362/DarielaScc/Catbox186_zpsc561f3eb.png
And that was before I even had my 6th space doff... And I was still using purple mk 10 tet consoles as opposed to mk 12 plasma consoles... and before I had my Nukara set... Or room for my Isometric Charge...
Edit2: I see where it shows that tetryon refractions only did like 33 DPS. Yeah. If I use standard tets (That get an extra mod, even) I lose a couple K. My best guess is some of those refractions parse thru as standard hits.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
We're talking about the practical battlefield use of a tetryon build vs other weapons, and the point I made still stands.
Assuming 100% proc and 0 crit chance, no rng damage just one flat numerical output
assuming an enemy casting cycling heals and cleanses, both hull and shield
Assuming the same modifiers and console support, weapons loadout and ship shields/deflector/engine
Assuming the same extent of spec into proc and energy weapon alike
If we took ships with these identical loadouts, one of each energy type, and each got its own borg cube or other common target to shoot at, In this scenario, the tetryon ship's target would be the last to die every time.
The proc simply isn't useful as often as the other types'. It doesn't supplement your output nearly as much as any of the others do. Your weapons are supposed to damage your opponents, and tetryons are the type that does that in the least efficient manner.
If that is true, then how can I go from romulan plasma with purple mk 12 tactical consoles, and all of them being single beams for maximum uptime, to doing more damage straight up when I go to 4 refracting tet + DBB and mk 10 tactical consoles, only other difference being switching the zero point for the nukara console? It was not the accuracy boost (ACC overflow has been broken for BFAW for ages, and I sit around 99.99 accuracy when parsed with or without the +10% console. I'm not getting several K because of accuracy)
Parses don't lie, tooltips and theory craft does. Well, they can lie, but they tend to still be more accurate.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Well 'bro', its the most useless proc ever. Ever. If you need me to explain it, then here.
The proc only has a 2.5% chance same as all procs, and thats if you happen to be hitting an enemy with a friend within 5km of him. Even when it does proc, it does a normal hit yes, subject to normal shields/resists as well. In other words pathetic. Especially if you are attacking a single target, it basically might as well not have a proc at all.
I'm not going to waffle about why every other proc is better, its fairly obvious.
Having parsed these weapons numerous times, back when Nukara rep was new and i bought a few of these without really thinking it through, I can tell you, they truly suck.
I actually vendored them for bank space. Had to, before they turned into a MUTO and tried to find a mate.
I am still waiting to hear from you how I can kill faster with disruptors. All the evidence I have seen shows disruptors kill much slower. Every time I swap to disruptors kill time gets much worse. I already proved disruptors deal less damage.
I've never had somebody seen me flying with my tets and think I sucked... ever... :cool:
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Seriously? Anecdotal Dps parsing as a measure of effectiveness is idiotic, especially because I doubt your parser differentiates between refraction proc dps output onto other targets, which doesn't kill your primary target any faster and skews your parse to look like you're doing more than you are. Damage gets undone in combat. I want single target kill time. That's what matters here, not the amount of ticks you can put out in a given amount of time.
Edit: I should mention, even then, romplas is specifically bad to compare to something like tetryon because your tet spec will already be running flow caps in the science slots, which means you might as well run embassy +pla consoles in those slots, which is going to boost your romplas output even more than the tets with the added plasma proc. You're giving up too much to occassionally plink a repair-able amount to a target that won't always be there for your spec to be a worthwhile investment.
So no, your parse means nothing.
I'm honestly not saying you suck or anyone else. I never build what everyone else builds because its boring as hell.
I like tetryon, as i said in an earlier post. Just like i love disruptor, phaser and Romulan plasma. And phaser isn't even that good compared to some, but i just like the canon and a lot of fed stuff uses phaser damage.
Ok ill leave it as, "personally i dislike refracting tet, more than anything else. When i use tet weapons i use destabilising because i like them".
If you enjoy them, then that's all that matters.
The proc is useful in the right situations (which, given most probes and spheres spawn in groups of three (3) or more, it's almost always right) and in those right situations, it shines. That said, the refracting proc IMHO should be a 25% chance to proc on crit like the Voth AP and Protonic Polarons. It essentially BEHAVES like a Protonic Polaron only it hits an extra target.
The absolute lowest possible Single target kill time is the primary goal of any weapon type. ANR is a good example of where refracting tetryon would be useful, but 5 ships firing bfaw/csv romplas vs the same five ships using the same bfaw/csv but with tetryons will still melt that group faster. There's nothing you gain in a trade from romplas to any kind of tetryon.
How do they do 'far more damage'? Im genuinely curious.
The DBB is an exception, as it has a different proc, in that it procs 100% of the time. Even that still isn't great, as again, single target it basically does nothing.
Its AOE basically, and AOE is for scrubs. Anyone should be able to put together a half decent AOE build that can do 20k AOE DPS without really trying. All it takes is a minimal amount of thought. Its merely for people to erect their epeens over in a PVE mission. Now don't get me wrong, i enjoy PVE more than anything, but i realise its easy enough in general, that what DPS i can manage doesn't really matter.
People that do AOE damage and then say "yeah my ship does 60k DPS". No it doesn't. It annoys me and its one of the reasons i hate parsing in this game, its so inaccurate yet people live by it and revolve their builds around it.
Then again, this game is about choice, if people enjoy playing that way then good on them.
Wow, great straw man, and way to blow what i said out of context.
Mate you are being argumentative for the sake of it. Seriously, if you bought refracting tets, then i feel for you. Every other proc in the game is better.
If you enjoy them, then fair play, its your game.
But it's OK if you don't wish to refute what I've stated. Someone else did the same in this thread.
You only said it sucked because... it's a proc that is an extra attack that is subject to shield and hull resistances. Literally what every other directed energy attack (even proc!) does. Plasma DoT AFAIK is subject to hull resistances. Protonic proc from Protonic Polaron is AFAIK subject to hull resistances.
But in the end, an extra attack is an extra attack. An attack that is, yes, subject to shield and hull resistances, but also subject to shield and hull debuffs. So when that APB and Sensor Scan debuff cripple my target's defenses (APB affects every target shot with my weapons, Sensor Scan is an AoE damage resistance debuff, and my targets were most probably being repelled by a Gravity Well) that proc when it DOES land will do wonders.
For example I was testing some weapons yesterday for some build ideas and the weapons that killed single targets faster where the lowest DPS and slowest killing weapons to use. The other weapons which killed single targets slower killed a group of ships faster.
The weapon that killed the first ship the fastest took 59 seconds to kill the group. The weapon that took longer to kill the first ship killed the group in 43 seconds. Averaged out over multiple runs. (Kill time was slow as I only used pairs of weapons for the testing)
So... you poo poo my parse, but you didn't even see what I was using before spouting off about my consoles (might want to check, you will look sheepish...) I use the same science consoles with both the tets and the romplas. I don't stack flowcap, I stack partgen.
And I will assume you didn't look at the rest of the build, either, which makes the first part of your post simply hilarious.
I assure you, my AE damage is effective...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
That makes 0 sense, I would think you're trolling but you're being civil enough.
You want something dead, that's why you're shooting at it. There is no tactical advantage from it being around longer at that point. Your weapons are there to make your target go away, not rack up parser points so you can make the pugs in your stf aware of their inferiority to you.
As for single-target vs group damage, consider this. 5 on 5 refracting tets vs rom plas, identical builds, the same standard non-varying rolls I mentioned ~3 posts back. Yes, the refracting tets team will assist each other in superficial, reparable damage output in the fray, but because of the DOT/Debuff nature of the rom plas teams' weapons, their targets will go down faster, the refracting team will be whittled down faster, they'll lose their supplimental team damage where as the rom plas team's will increase as their targets go down faster and they can start focusing sooner. And this is just rom plas. Compared to an AP team with these same circumstances? It would be a sweep.
Mate, you just cant let it go.
First of all you didn't read anything i said so far. All you described is one reason why refracting tet is so bad. You are showing your lack of knowledge now.
First of all let me just point out you are wrong, the plasma burn on Romulan plasma ignores shields, so it already instantly beats refracting tet.
I didn't want to compare because i do like other tetryon weapons, but i will. Its only the refracting ones i think are so bad.
My Romulan plasma proc does 79 plasma damage every second for 15 seconds, that ignores shields. So thats about 1200 dmg straight into the hull.
Your refracting tet does 300 ish damage on a beam array, to a target within 5km if there is one, that then is resisted by shields and hull. So just one of my procs is worth 4 of yours maybe 3 if your procs do more than the ones i was looking at.
No need to get into the other procs, the tet shield damage one the rom plasma disruptor one too, they are both ok.
But that there is a loss to me. Especially if you are single target DPS against a enemy with no other targets within 5km. Its basically no proc for you at all.
As i said earlier, each to their own, if you enjoy using them then thats great, the game should be about fun. But you just cannot compare that proc to any others. Its TRIBBLE. Especially when you have to lose a weapon modifer to make way for it. Its terrible. At least Romulan plasma has 2 good procs to make it worth it.
Procs should never be relied on anyway, ever. Which is what makes the refracting one so bad. Not only does it rely on the 2.5% chance, it relies on the principle there is another enemy within 5km.