I was under the belief that shields (even a sliver) reduced torp damage by 75%.
I believe they do.
The only torps that have shield penetratrion boost are transphasic, as i am aware. In fact, i think transphasics are the best regular torps out there lol.
Did you miss all the pages, where me and other people said that even with the nukara set or the apex one , tetryons are useless??
You dont even need a set or something special to test tetryon weapons. Just a plain build with no tactical consoles and no sets of any kind. Load tetryons of any kind, and use em in advanced / elite mode.
Then, load any other weapon and use it. You will see the difference. If you dont, well, something is really wrong... lol.
Did you miss all the pages where people said that tetryons are not useless? Why are you correct and everyone else is wrong? So because you failed to make a decent build all the people posting decent builds are automatically wrong? Have you ever considered that just perhaps those people are telling the truth?
When are you going to realize we are not getting 2k dps out of our Tetryons. We are getting 10k to 20k dps+ depending on build. Just because your setup failed at 2k dps and took 5 minutes to kill a ship doesn't mean the rest of us have that problem. Like I said before I did what you said and used disruptors and my DPS and kill time dropped massively. Are you just going to skip over that like everything else outside your viewpoint? Should I act like you and just LoL at everyone and call everyone morons saying disruptors are rubbish as that's what I experienced?
The only thing you can do is to call me a liar. But honestly i dont have any reason to lie about testing tetryon weapons. Some of you are just real morons, you know? i was the one in the first place who wanted a tetryon build for my apex. And i spent about 2-3 months trying to make it work. Did i take "notes"??? of course not. Did i save all my results in word documents, lol?? no. You can believe what you want lol, i really dont care, but i have very clear that tetryons are TRIBBLE. Period. Checked millions of times. Now, everyone can do watever he wants, but if he thinks he is doing great with a tetryon build.. he is really wrong. And he is fooling himself lol.
So if someone posts high DPS numbers and backs it up with evidence they are still wrong as you failed to make a decent setup? So because you failed everyone else automatic failed no matter what the evidence they post!! Then you go and call us the morons. You can say "tetryons are TRIBBLE. Period." but that doesn't make you right. It just makes you sound arrogant.
If we are getting 10k to 20k dps and doing blasts of 10k damage to entire groups of ships how can you call that fooling ourselves? Those 10k blasts are better then anything disruptors can even get close to pulling off. Now that is a fact. We are not really wrong, it is you who is really wrong.
Just because your 2k dps Tetryon setup is really rubbish it doesn't mean all Tetryons setups are rubbish and 2k is the max tetryons can do. The rest of us have no problems hitting 10k or even 20k DPS.
The only torps that have shield penetratrion boost are transphasic, as i am aware. In fact, i think transphasics are the best regular torps out there lol.
It depends how you define sliver but that is not how it works. A sliver of shields say 50 shield will not apply 75% damage resistance to all the damage.
Since the only prupose of tetryon weapons is to drain shields, and if they cant even do that.. they are useless.
And the reason to call em a fail is because, they doesnt work against anything. Period.
That’s not true I use tetryon weapons as they are the only energy weapon that deals lots of large AoE blasts to groups of ships. That is everything but useless. Period.
Killing a group of ships on a crit in one blast is fun, high damage and useful. You can hit everything in a 5km blast area.
In the same circunstances, with just a beam overload from my bortasqu disruptor, my enemy had no shields anymore. After that, piece of cake. With tetryon weapons, impossible.
That’s a lie its not impossible with tetryon. If anything you can do 2 blasts in a row with tetryon . Beam overload to take down shields then sniper blast to take down hull. Can disruptors do that? can disruptors beam overload 2 targets at once? With tetryon you can beam overload the shields away from two ships at once. Why would I swap back to disruptor when I can do that with tetryon?
I was under the belief that shields (even a sliver) reduced torp damage by 75%.
They do.
They just reduce torpedo damage to the shields by 75%.
This damage vanishes into the electronic ether.
If that (reduced) damage manages to fully drop the shields, and whatever is left hits the Hull... that's where the difference lies.
It used to stay reduced by 75%.
Then suddenly one day it didn't.
I should note that this applies upon whatever part of the torpedo hit is not affected by "Bleedthrough" - versus standard shields, 10% of the torpedo hit will go straight onto the hull; then 90% will impact on the shields and get affected as described above.
Once it was largely impossible for someone in a Resilient Shield to be one-shotted by a Borg Heavy Torpedo in Elite STFs because of this "sliver effect". That changed. This is why.
My point is if I'm reaching 20k in them, as a science in an Atrox, they can't be that broken.
Anecdotally, my DPS jumped 2k the very first run when I replaced my romulan plasma with refracting tet, and as I worked my build the gap grew even more. I don't own a good set of AP or disruptor beams for comparison, but the romulan plasma kinda covers disruptor, anyway.
I haven't even updated this link since I broke it's record for 20,465, as I don't have an obsessive need to prove my abilities to strangers on the internet and once I broke 20k I was satiated and went back to canon fun builds, but if you insist:
I have the fleet version now and a handful more upgrades, just I stopped flying her. I finally got a Recluse (which I surprisingly don't fly that much) and the Fleet Dreadnought is like my dream ship from the canon. Between the 2 of them I'm not sure my Catbox will see the light of day again...
Refracting proc can be useful in some cases, but like all cases with tetryon in general they are corner cases. I know some people who love it for NWS and Fleet Alert, thats about all I could see using it for.
The damage to shields dealt by tetryons are far inferior (almost embarrasing compared with other weapons) than any other energy weapon type.
Forget about the proc - forget about all the procs - wheeeeee! Well, can't stop there - need to forget about Critical Hits - need to 0% chance to crit.
They all do the same damage.
To hull? Yep.
To shields? Yep.
With equal gearing/bonuses vs. equal gearing/bonuses...they're the same.
With the following, there are no Tac Consoles being used - no set bonuses - no buffs/debuffs being used. Each weapon is a Common Mk X array (thus no Antiproton for testing) being fired from a stationary position just inside 10km (9.93km).
The following Accolades were in play Disruptor and Plasma, so their damage should be around 5 higher than the others (2% strength for 100 base with 120 Weapon Power).
Here's a helpful tidbit on how to read the end of the lines in the actual combatlog.txt file.
Base Hit: 488.309, 489.69, 518.815, 523.882; 488 to 523
Shield Hit: 377.951, 380.74, 401.562, 407.324; 377 to 407
Let's put it together in a more comparative view, eh?
Base Hits
Disruptor: 520 to 540; avg 530
Phaser: 472 to 535; avg 503.5
Plasma: 474 to 519; avg 496.5
Polaron: 449 to 544; avg 496.5
Tetryon: 488 to 523; avg 505.5
Shield Hits
Disruptor: 408 to 424; avg 416
Phaser: 370 to 420; avg 395
Plasma: 370 to 407; avg 388.5
Polaron: 353 to 425; avg 389
Tetryon: 377 to 407; avg 392
The damage listed in tooltips is not the amount of damage to be expected. Even if one calculates for range and resistance, they're still going to be missing whatever form of variance that Cryptic uses for damage. All of those shots were fired while sitting still with nothing changing - yet they did variable damage.
Yes, each of those was a single cycle - no idea whether it hit the bottom or top of that potential range in variance. Extensive testing would likely reveal those, potentially, but the gist remains...
...remove the RNG/procs - yeah, Tetryon is not the fail damage that you're continuously trying to make it out to be.
Again, there was a massive issue with Tetryon and FAW that wasn't resolved until Dec 5th, 2013 last year. It was painfully worse to use Tetryon and FAW before that compared to FAW and other energy types. That was a bug...
If folks want to argue the procs, have at it - there's all sorts of things to be argued there - different scenarios out the wahzoo...could make the beef thread for the Galaxy look like a single post thread when all's said and done if folks wanted to go at it discussing procs.
But the damage without procs...? /facepalm Just stop, eh?
but the runs before that with the plasma were with the bug too.
point wasn't look at my huge numbers, its just that tets aren't ridiculously broken. when compared to other weapons in the same build they perform admirably. Particularly with scorps and all that torp damage.
Now I get mah apb from my mesh weavers like a real carrier pilot :P That is when I'm not flying my dread or my vesta.
pardon my grammar... new keyboard is incoming...
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
The only thing you can do is to call me a liar. But honestly i dont have any reason to lie about testing tetryon weapons. Some of you are just real morons, you know? i was the one in the first place who wanted a tetryon build for my apex. And i spent about 2-3 months trying to make it work. Did i take "notes"??? of course not. Did i save all my results in word documents, lol?? no. You can believe what you want lol, i really dont care, but i have very clear that tetryons are TRIBBLE. Period. Checked millions of times. Now, everyone can do watever he wants, but if he thinks he is doing great with a tetryon build.. he is really wrong. And he is fooling himself lol.
See, "I tested and they're useless NYAH" is not the same as "I tested and here are the numbers".
Also, "I tried tetryon in this ship once and they sucked, so I went back to my other ship" is not a valid testing method.
I'm not calling you a liar; you very well may have tested tetryon. I'm merely saying that until somebody does some real control testing and provides the actual numbers, all the rest of this blather is meaningless. And nothing you have said provides any confirmation of testing, validation of testing methodology, or numbers for us to evaluate.
Comments
I believe they do.
The only torps that have shield penetratrion boost are transphasic, as i am aware. In fact, i think transphasics are the best regular torps out there lol.
When are you going to realize we are not getting 2k dps out of our Tetryons. We are getting 10k to 20k dps+ depending on build. Just because your setup failed at 2k dps and took 5 minutes to kill a ship doesn't mean the rest of us have that problem. Like I said before I did what you said and used disruptors and my DPS and kill time dropped massively. Are you just going to skip over that like everything else outside your viewpoint? Should I act like you and just LoL at everyone and call everyone morons saying disruptors are rubbish as that's what I experienced?
So if someone posts high DPS numbers and backs it up with evidence they are still wrong as you failed to make a decent setup? So because you failed everyone else automatic failed no matter what the evidence they post!! Then you go and call us the morons. You can say "tetryons are TRIBBLE. Period." but that doesn't make you right. It just makes you sound arrogant.
If we are getting 10k to 20k dps and doing blasts of 10k damage to entire groups of ships how can you call that fooling ourselves? Those 10k blasts are better then anything disruptors can even get close to pulling off. Now that is a fact. We are not really wrong, it is you who is really wrong.
Just because your 2k dps Tetryon setup is really rubbish it doesn't mean all Tetryons setups are rubbish and 2k is the max tetryons can do. The rest of us have no problems hitting 10k or even 20k DPS.
Killing a group of ships on a crit in one blast is fun, high damage and useful. You can hit everything in a 5km blast area.
That’s a lie its not impossible with tetryon. If anything you can do 2 blasts in a row with tetryon . Beam overload to take down shields then sniper blast to take down hull. Can disruptors do that? can disruptors beam overload 2 targets at once? With tetryon you can beam overload the shields away from two ships at once. Why would I swap back to disruptor when I can do that with tetryon?
They do.
They just reduce torpedo damage to the shields by 75%.
This damage vanishes into the electronic ether.
If that (reduced) damage manages to fully drop the shields, and whatever is left hits the Hull... that's where the difference lies.
It used to stay reduced by 75%.
Then suddenly one day it didn't.
I should note that this applies upon whatever part of the torpedo hit is not affected by "Bleedthrough" - versus standard shields, 10% of the torpedo hit will go straight onto the hull; then 90% will impact on the shields and get affected as described above.
Examples linked
Once it was largely impossible for someone in a Resilient Shield to be one-shotted by a Borg Heavy Torpedo in Elite STFs because of this "sliver effect". That changed. This is why.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1081971
Refracting proc can be useful in some cases, but like all cases with tetryon in general they are corner cases. I know some people who love it for NWS and Fleet Alert, thats about all I could see using it for.
Forget about the proc - forget about all the procs - wheeeeee! Well, can't stop there - need to forget about Critical Hits - need to 0% chance to crit.
They all do the same damage.
To hull? Yep.
To shields? Yep.
With equal gearing/bonuses vs. equal gearing/bonuses...they're the same.
With the following, there are no Tac Consoles being used - no set bonuses - no buffs/debuffs being used. Each weapon is a Common Mk X array (thus no Antiproton for testing) being fired from a stationary position just inside 10km (9.93km).
The following Accolades were in play Disruptor and Plasma, so their damage should be around 5 higher than the others (2% strength for 100 base with 120 Weapon Power).
Here's a helpful tidbit on how to read the end of the lines in the actual combatlog.txt file.
So let's take a look at a cycle of each (Disruptor, Phaser, Plasma, Polaron, Tetryon (no AP because of no Common Mk X))...
Disruptor Array,Pn.8aydql1,Shield,,-415.741,-249.118
Disruptor Array,Pn.8aydql1,Disruptor,,27.6797,532.303
Disruptor Array,Pn.8aydql1,Shield,,-424.212,-253.056
Disruptor Array,Pn.8aydql1,Disruptor,,28.1174,540.718
Disruptor Array,Pn.8aydql1,Shield,,-408.682,-243.792
Disruptor Array,Pn.8aydql1,Disruptor,,27.088,520.923
Disruptor Array,Pn.8aydql1,Shield,,-422.413,-251.983
Disruptor Array,Pn.8aydql1,Disruptor,,27.9981,538.425
Base Hit: 520.923, 532.303, 538.425, 540.718; 520 to 540
Shield Hit: 408.682, 415.741, 422.413, 424.212; 408 to 424
Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Shield,,-417.367,-250.092
Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Phaser,,27.788,534.385
Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Shield,,-370.555,-221.048
Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Phaser,,24.5609,472.326
Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Shield,,-420.384,-250.773
Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Phaser,,27.8636,535.839
Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Shield,,-381.22,-227.41
Phaser Array,Pn.Cedjls,Phaser,,25.2678,485.92
Base Hit: 472.326, 485.92, 534.385, 535.839; 472 to 535
Shield Hit: 370.555, 381.22, 417.367, 420.384; 370 to 420
Plasma Array,Pn.4g1l7r,Shield,,-370.765,-222.168
Plasma Array,Pn.4g1l7r,Plasma,,24.6853,474.717
Plasma Array,Pn.4g1l7r,Shield,,-383.77,-229.961
Plasma Array,Pn.4g1l7r,Plasma,,25.5512,491.369
Plasma Array,Pn.4g1l7r,Shield,,-395.68,-236.036
Plasma Array,Pn.4g1l7r,Plasma,,26.2262,504.351
Plasma Array,Pn.4g1l7r,Shield,,-407.236,-242.93
Plasma Array,Pn.4g1l7r,Plasma,,26.9922,519.081
Base Hit: 474.717. 491.369, 504.351, 519.081; 474 to 519
Shield Hit: 370.765, 383.77, 395.68, 407.236; 370 to 407
Polaron Array,Pn.8026wp1,Shield,,-378.272,-226.666
Polaron Array,Pn.8026wp1,Polaron,,25.1852,484.33
Polaron Array,Pn.8026wp1,Shield,,-425.137,-254.748
Polaron Array,Pn.8026wp1,Polaron,,28.3053,544.333
Polaron Array,Pn.8026wp1,Shield,,-353.037,-210.598
Polaron Array,Pn.8026wp1,Polaron,,23.3998,449.996
Polaron Array,Pn.8026wp1,Shield,,-367.236,-219.068
Polaron Array,Pn.8026wp1,Polaron,,24.3409,468.095
Base Hit: 449.996, 468.095, 484.33, 544.333; 449 to 544
Shield Hit: 353.037, 367.236, 378.272, 425.137; 353 to 425
Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Shield,,-401.562,-242.805
Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Tetryon,,26.9784,518.815
Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Shield,,-377.951,-228.529
Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Tetryon,,25.3921,488.309
Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Shield,,-380.74,-229.175
Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Tetryon,,25.4639,489.69
Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Shield,,-407.324,-245.177
Tetryon Array,Pn.Ianv3x1,Tetryon,,27.2419,523.882
Base Hit: 488.309, 489.69, 518.815, 523.882; 488 to 523
Shield Hit: 377.951, 380.74, 401.562, 407.324; 377 to 407
Let's put it together in a more comparative view, eh?
Base Hits
Disruptor: 520 to 540; avg 530
Phaser: 472 to 535; avg 503.5
Plasma: 474 to 519; avg 496.5
Polaron: 449 to 544; avg 496.5
Tetryon: 488 to 523; avg 505.5
Shield Hits
Disruptor: 408 to 424; avg 416
Phaser: 370 to 420; avg 395
Plasma: 370 to 407; avg 388.5
Polaron: 353 to 425; avg 389
Tetryon: 377 to 407; avg 392
The damage listed in tooltips is not the amount of damage to be expected. Even if one calculates for range and resistance, they're still going to be missing whatever form of variance that Cryptic uses for damage. All of those shots were fired while sitting still with nothing changing - yet they did variable damage.
Yes, each of those was a single cycle - no idea whether it hit the bottom or top of that potential range in variance. Extensive testing would likely reveal those, potentially, but the gist remains...
...remove the RNG/procs - yeah, Tetryon is not the fail damage that you're continuously trying to make it out to be.
Again, there was a massive issue with Tetryon and FAW that wasn't resolved until Dec 5th, 2013 last year. It was painfully worse to use Tetryon and FAW before that compared to FAW and other energy types. That was a bug...
If folks want to argue the procs, have at it - there's all sorts of things to be argued there - different scenarios out the wahzoo...could make the beef thread for the Galaxy look like a single post thread when all's said and done if folks wanted to go at it discussing procs.
But the damage without procs...? /facepalm Just stop, eh?
but the runs before that with the plasma were with the bug too.
point wasn't look at my huge numbers, its just that tets aren't ridiculously broken. when compared to other weapons in the same build they perform admirably. Particularly with scorps and all that torp damage.
Now I get mah apb from my mesh weavers like a real carrier pilot :P That is when I'm not flying my dread or my vesta.
pardon my grammar... new keyboard is incoming...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Also, "I tried tetryon in this ship once and they sucked, so I went back to my other ship" is not a valid testing method.
I'm not calling you a liar; you very well may have tested tetryon. I'm merely saying that until somebody does some real control testing and provides the actual numbers, all the rest of this blather is meaningless. And nothing you have said provides any confirmation of testing, validation of testing methodology, or numbers for us to evaluate.