So... you poo poo my parse, but you didn't even see what I was using before spouting off about my consoles (might want to check, you will look sheepish...) I use the same science consoles with both the tets and the romplas. I don't stack flowcap, I stack partgen.
And I will assume you didn't look at the rest of the build, either, which makes the first part of your post simply hilarious.
I assure you, my AE damage is effective...
This just further cements your testimony as an irrelevant anecdote. Especially if you admit to not having optimized your build for proc drain with flow caps, it's already not a comparison in a vacuum. The fact that contributed to the discussion knowing this reveals that you didn't read my post.
The point here is, that all things remaining the exact same, in a standard, mesurable world that this game will never achieve, is that yes, technically, tetryons are the inferior damage type.
When specced fully into their base damage AND their proc effect, they are still less effective at annihilating your target than any of the other damage types, and once we introduce the complication of that target being controlled, (casting restorative abilities and the like) the gap between them and the others at the back of the pack like polarons and phasers actually widens and they become comparatively worse.
Your parse means nothing because you're talking about points of damage put out. yes, you can put out more points, but it doesn't end the engagement any quicker. Your proc arcs to an enemy, big whoop. They're going to recover while you're still fighting the first target that that refraction did nothing to.
Meanwhile, mirror universe you is shooting the same target with romplas and identically corresponding spec, their first target is going to die faster, and they can then switch and start killing the second target your refraction pinged sooner. Is refraction cool? Yes. Is it superior? No. Will it parse higher? Yes, because it does add damage output, but that's not a measure of effectiveness here given where that damage is going. And then there's the consideration of a 1v1 scenario, when your refraction does nothing and romplas stays just as effective...
This really shouldn't be the third time I've had to walk someone to this conclusion with a leash...
First of all you didn't read anything i said so far. All you described is one reason why refracting tet is so bad. You are showing your lack of knowledge now.
First of all let me just point out you are wrong, the plasma burn on Romulan plasma ignores shields, so it already instantly beats refracting tet.
I didn't want to compare because i do like other tetryon weapons, but i will. Its only the refracting ones i think are so bad.
My Romulan plasma proc does 79 plasma damage every second for 15 seconds, that ignores shields. So thats about 1200 dmg straight into the hull.
Your refracting tet does 300 ish damage on a beam array, to a target within 5km if there is one, that then is resisted by shields and hull. So just one of my procs is worth 4 of yours maybe 3 if your procs do more than the ones i was looking at.
No need to get into the other procs, the tet shield damage one the rom plasma disruptor one too, they are both ok.
But that there is a loss to me. Especially if you are single target DPS against a enemy with no other targets within 5km. Its basically no proc for you at all.
As i said earlier, each to their own, if you enjoy using them then thats great, the game should be about fun. But you just cannot compare that proc to any others. Its TRIBBLE. Especially when you have to lose a weapon modifer to make way for it. Its terrible. At least Romulan plasma has 2 good procs to make it worth it.
Procs should never be relied on anyway, ever. Which is what makes the refracting one so bad. Not only does it rely on the 2.5% chance, it relies on the principle there is another enemy within 5km.
But that plasma burn proc is STILL subject to hull resistances. So that 1,200 will be lower. That said, the same thing can be said of the refracting shot... except the refracting shot in all ways behaves like an extra tetryon shot, subject to Weapon power buffs, console buffs (in defense of plasma, IIRC, plasma DoT is also buffed by plasma consoles) and if I'm not mistaken, the refracting shot can also crit by itself. I've seen Proton procs deal 5k+ of damage because from what I can only imagine, the proton proc is buffed by tactical buffs, Weapon power buffs, and tactical console buffs. The number in the proc's damage is base damage, before all the typical damage buffs are taken into consideration.
I'm not entirely sure which game you're playing, but in Star Trek Online, you rarely have to fight a singular enemy in space. Probes spawn from gates in groups of three or more. In ISE, when you blow up all 4 generators around the big generator, like 7 spheres come out. Voth forces in the space area of the battlezone warp in big groups of more than four. Undine forces in the Undine battlezone routinely come into the zones being captured in groups of three and more.
So, you're right. The proc is useless against single targets. I never said it wasn't. But then again, against a single target I have Torpedo High Yield and Cannon Scatter Volley. Sure, your plasma or disruptor proc may land, which would be nice. In that case, your plasma weapons win whatever it is you're winning. But in the current meta of fighting tons of enemies on screen (Done any of the Undine space STFs lately?) AoEs win.
So again, the proc is good in the right situations (as I've stated before) and useless in others. Does it make the proc useless? It's less utilitarian than plasma or disruptor, but useless? I wouldn't call it that.
What conclusion, again? That if your proc lands, which is a 2.5% chance therefore up to Lady Luck, that your weapons will do slightly more damage in the long run?
You're putting a LOOOOOT of faith in procs (what seems to be a big mistake of a lot of people) and summarily judging weapons types solely on their proc. All energy types have the same base damage. Or on... something. Plasma magically doing more damage in a similar build than tetryon, I dunno.
When someone posts her build on the forums AND A PARSE of that same build and the numbers speak for themselves and another someone else flat-out refuses such numbers and keeps spewing the same poison to an energy type that IMHO doesn't deserve it... yeah. Blissful ignorance.
I swear, Tetryon haters are more abundant than JJ Abrams haters.
What conclusion, again? That if your proc lands, which is a 2.5% chance therefore up to Lady Luck, that your weapons will do slightly more damage in the long run?
You're putting a LOOOOOT of faith in procs (what seems to be a big mistake of a lot of people) and summarily judging weapons types solely on their proc. All energy types have the same base damage. Or on... something. Plasma magically doing more damage in a similar build than tetryon, I dunno.
When someone posts her build on the forums AND A PARSE of that same build and the numbers speak for themselves and another someone else flat-out refuses such numbers and keeps spewing the same poison to an energy type that IMHO doesn't deserve it... yeah. Blissful ignorance.
I swear, Tetryon haters are more abundant than JJ Abrams haters.
It's not hate, it's logic. It's been laid out extensively over 17 pages and at this point you're selectively reading. Still, I'll try (most likely in vain) to make you understand one last time...
We're evaluating the effectiveness of a weapon type because of its reputation, and I've very clearly, irrefutably illustrated here that technically the reputation is deserved.
All things equal, RNG removed from the equation, tetryons are inferior weapons. There's nothing more to say on the subject, you're free to re read my posts at your leisure, or hell, who are we kidding? Read them for the first time. Either way, I'd recommend it because you're not even really contributing at this point.
"hurr durr procs are such a long shot it's not important"
The proc is what differentiates the weapon and makes it a weapon type, so if we're excluding procs then we're just talking about a big homogeneous pool of vanilla ice cream guns. So I don't even know why you would both bringing that up? If we're not talking about procs, we're not talking about tetryon.
I also explained why a parse doesn't prove weapon or build effectiveness, and why that anecdote and the related build were irrelevant. She might as well have posted her kick TRIBBLE ferengi missile build for all it added to the debate.
I like tets, I think they're cool, I was excited for the sniper cannon, I still want MK 12 piercing tets, but the proc is useless and outclassed by every other proc in game.
Will anything come of this finding? No, they've still got ships to stick hangar bays on and borg cubes to box up for us to actually bother changing a whole weapon type.
Is the signifigance of this disadvantage more or less a wash once you start throwing in the RNG everywhere? Probably, in the current game build I fly a peregrine in the dyson sphere and have the time of my life, connies can solo cubes with an all-marshmallow turret build, and scimitars will get instavaped by hypercrit brels (few of which are tetryon, btw, I wonder why?)
But, all things equal, tetryon is still the worst of the weapons. Bottom line. Conclusion. /thread.
Or Polaron... :P honestly, it's never really made a lot of difference.... well, not since they added the self-nerfing feature to phaser anyways.... it used to be borderline OP.
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but you may find the following as a reason why folks might not be bowing before you and praising you for your insights...
...when somebody so boldly contradicts themselves in their own post like that, folks might just end up having a tendency to gloss over what you're saying.
It's not hate, it's logic. It's been laid out extensively over 17 pages and at this point you're selectively reading. Still, I'll try (most likely in vain) to make you understand one last time...
We're evaluating the effectiveness of a weapon type because of its reputation, and I've very clearly, irrefutably illustrated here that technically the reputation is deserved.
All things equal, RNG removed from the equation, tetryons are inferior weapons. There's nothing more to say on the subject, you're free to re read my posts at your leisure, or hell, who are we kidding? Read them for the first time. Either way, I'd recommend it because you're not even really contributing at this point.
"hurr durr procs are such a long shot it's not important" The proc is what differentiates the weapon and makes it a weapon type, so if we're excluding procs then we're just talking about a big homogeneous pool of vanilla ice cream guns. So I don't even know why you would both bringing that up? If we're not talking about procs, we're not talking about tetryon.
I also explained why a parse doesn't prove weapon or build effectiveness, and why that anecdote and the related build were irrelevant. She might as well have posted her kick TRIBBLE ferengi missile build for all it added to the debate.
I like tets, I think they're cool, I was excited for the sniper cannon, I still want MK 12 piercing tets, but the proc is useless and outclassed by every other proc in game.
Will anything come of this finding? No, they've still got ships to stick hangar bays on and borg cubes to box up for us to actually bother changing a whole weapon type.
Is the signifigance of this disadvantage more or less a wash once you start throwing in the RNG everywhere? Probably, in the current game build I fly a peregrine in the dyson sphere and have the time of my life, connies can solo cubes with an all-marshmallow turret build, and scimitars will get instavaped by hypercrit brels (few of which are tetryon, btw, I wonder why?)
But, all things equal, tetryon is still the worst of the weapons. Bottom line. Conclusion. /thread.
I don't mean to be rude or anything, but you may find the following as a reason why folks might not be bowing before you and praising you for your insights...
...when somebody so boldly contradicts themselves in their own post like that, folks might just end up having a tendency to gloss over what you're saying.
Poorly worded? Maybe. Contradictory? Hardly. You of all people have read this far, you know what I meant. It's just a low blow to play semantics at this point, not to mention unbecoming.
I don't need reverence for being right. An issue was posed, I provided the answer.
But... but... that is what the phaser people say, too?
They can't both be the worst.
Do you guys get together on the weekends and taunt phased tetryon weapons?
it's nearly a 3 way tie against a dumb target between polaron, phaser, and tetryon. But polaron will drain shield power, aux power, and engine power which negatively affect your target's defense, heals, and shield effectiveness, and phasers will knock shields engines and aux based heals offline, creating a spike version of the same debuffs.
In the fish tank I described earlier, none of them compete in the race between Ap/Dis/Pla, but as more variables are added (moving target, target casting heals) polaron and phaser become more significant contributors to your kill time, whereas tetryon stays at the same level.
Typical STO formus alarmist propaganda again... Carry on...
Edit: Refracting Tets are amazing in the right builds.
Then you DPS must be 2k or something like that lol.
Tetryons are the worst weapons and deal really ridiculous damage. Period. Thats the reason nobody uses em. But this doesnt mean they are cool, of course, thats maybe the only reason people uses em lol.
Maybe you use a new fancy tetryon weapon we are not aware off, lol, and we pure mortals tested thousands of times the ones that are already in the game.. maybe thats the problem. You are talking about a new prototype of tetryon weapon.. lol, because the regular tetryons are pure TRIBBLE. Period.
So, six more pages of anecdotal and theoretical blather without any instrumented testing with a proper control. *sigh*
Oh well. Have fun arguing over something with absolutely no real evidence to back one argument or the other. I'm out.
Did you miss all the pages, where me and other people said that even with the nukara set or the apex one , tetryons are useless??
You dont even need a set or something special to test tetryon weapons. Just a plain build with no tactical consoles and no sets of any kind. Load tetryons of any kind, and use em in advanced / elite mode.
Then, load any other weapon and use it. You will see the difference. If you dont, well, something is really wrong... lol.
But... but... that is what the phaser people say, too?
They can't both be the worst.
Do you guys get together on the weekends and taunt phased tetryon weapons?
No. Phasers are not even close to tetryon. Phasers are far better than tetryons. I use phasers on my DSD and they own. Of course , phasers are worst than any other energy type with the exception of tetryon, but still they are far better. Any energy type is far better than tetryon.
Poorly worded? Maybe. Contradictory? Hardly. You of all people have read this far, you know what I meant. It's just a low blow to play semantics at this point, not to mention unbecoming.
I don't need reverence for being right. An issue was posed, I provided the answer.
Like I said in the most, it wasn't meant to be rude. It's just a case of where we are - we're in The Academy. It's neither General Discussion or even Builds. While it hasn't been an all out flamewar, there's definitely been some sizzle to many of the comments and generally a lack of supporting evidence given for many of the claims. "It's this way because I'm right..." isn't really an argument. Definitely not much of an argument when the argument that it's not right has been applied to folks saying something else. "Don't care about your anecdotal evidence, only my anecdotal evidence matters!" All in all, it's a poor showing for The Academy.
One thing that playing STO and spending so much time arguing about mechanics has taught me is that I can be both right and wrong at the same time. I've done videos of toons not losing Aux while running AtB - have had those same toons when BOFFs were changed end up losing Aux while running AtB - only to stop losing Aux again at a random point down the road. I did videos showing that Weapon Power did not drop below 125 while arguing overcap and Beam drain mechanics. That one really took me for a loop, because what I saw day in and day out was it not dropping below 125 - for years that's how it worked for me. I did a Trait respec on one of my toons - and bam - suddenly it worked for that toon the way it was working for all the folks I'd been arguing with forever. Both cases, the videos were there showing that I was right and they were wrong...but they weren't wrong - even though I wasn't either - and what we were saying were basically complete opposites. That's the nature of STO unfortunately...meh.
This thread is just so full of folks saying X is Y because they say so. The thread is just so full of folks forming conclusions based off of evidence that would actually suggest the opposite of the conclusions they're making. This thread is just so full of folks doing X or Y instead of X and Y. The thread is just so full of folks spreading misinformation - not even a case of it being their opinion, just outright misinformation.
All intermixed with more than a little sizzle...little flamewar skirmishes...
All in all...the thread's pretty much useless because there's so much garbage to sift through. It can't even serve the purpose of pointing out where one type would be better than another - because there's just so much garbage in the thread...
You're the only one that kept parroting it. Just shows how little grasp you have on game mechanics and what a screwed up perception as well.
You're simply wrong, moron.
Ok, so 99& of the people who plays STO are wrong, and you are right. Ok, sir.
Tetryons are useless, THAT everybody knows, and that was the very first point of the thread in the first place. Once you know they are TRIBBLE, the next step is to see what type of em are maybe more decent than others. That was the title of the thread "which one isn't fail". BUT, we already knew they were useless. Are you guys the ones who are trying to say the opposite to people who are trying to make em work since ages ago.
Did you miss all the pages, where me and other people said that even with the nukara set or the apex one , tetryons are useless??
You dont even need a set or something special to test tetryon weapons. Just a plain build with no tactical consoles and no sets of any kind. Load tetryons of any kind, and use em in advanced / elite mode.
Then, load any other weapon and use it. You will see the difference. If you dont, well, something is really wrong... lol.
Saying means nothing. TESTING means everything. Science. Look it up.
So whats the consensus? Are Tetryons as bad as I think in the current game against the plethora of shield healing that exist?
Or is this more conjecture based on percieved poor performance due to changes in gameplay?
I'm fairly sure the only consensus from this particular thread is "RAWR!" :rolleyes:
The generic Tetryon Proc (not the Refracting gimmick) is going to be nice versus shields and do nothing special versus hull. So before you kill your target, how many shieldpoints are you going to have to eat through? Borg stuff? Dreadnoughts? Other Players?
(I'm not even going to comment on the complication of Shield Facings getting balanced or not)
Tetryons are the Shield Killers, Disruptors are the Hull Killers (and buff the whole Team's DPS), Antiproton are the all-rounders. The rest are "quirky", with the best of the bunch probably being Plasma for stacked DoTs. And Disruptors and Antiproton are the only ones with a Proc that can be regarded as anything remotely approaching "reliable".
Saying means nothing. TESTING means everything. Science. Look it up.
The only thing you can do is to call me a liar. But honestly i dont have any reason to lie about testing tetryon weapons. Some of you are just real morons, you know? i was the one in the first place who wanted a tetryon build for my apex. And i spent about 2-3 months trying to make it work. Did i take "notes"??? of course not. Did i save all my results in word documents, lol?? no. You can believe what you want lol, i really dont care, but i have very clear that tetryons are TRIBBLE. Period. Checked millions of times. Now, everyone can do watever he wants, but if he thinks he is doing great with a tetryon build.. he is really wrong. And he is fooling himself lol.
Tetryons are the Shield Killers, Disruptors are the Hull Killers (and buff the whole Team's DPS), Antiproton are the all-rounders. The rest are "quirky", with the best of the bunch probably being Plasma for stacked DoTs. And Disruptors and Antiproton are the only ones with a Proc that can be regarded as anything remotely approaching "reliable".
(RAWR!) :P
THATS The problem. They should be shield killers, but they arent. The only "good" thing about tetryons is that they drain the target's shield. But that is a LIE!!!. As i said millions of times, you can drain your target's shields with any other energy type 10000 times faster!!. And this is the whole point of the post!!! zzzzzzz. As i said, disruptors works 1000 times better than tetryons!!. Or antiprotons!!, or plasma!!, even phasers!! lol.
I'm fairly sure the only consensus from this particular thread is "RAWR!" :rolleyes:
The generic Tetryon Proc (not the Refracting gimmick) is going to be nice versus shields and do nothing special versus hull. So before you kill your target, how many shieldpoints are you going to have to eat through? Borg stuff? Dreadnoughts? Other Players?
(I'm not even going to comment on the complication of Shield Facings getting balanced or not)
Tetryons are the Shield Killers, Disruptors are the Hull Killers (and buff the whole Team's DPS), Antiproton are the all-rounders. The rest are "quirky", with the best of the bunch probably being Plasma for stacked DoTs. And Disruptors and Antiproton are the only ones with a Proc that can be regarded as anything remotely approaching "reliable".
(RAWR!) :P
Tets are somewhat better when used in a build that strips shields as a prelude to Kinetic attacks.
Shield balancing... well, in theory Tet works against that be depleting all facings simultaneously. In theory.... in practice the Tet proc doesn't do enough damage to be a major factor. Then again procs don't do much overall.
I'm fairly sure the only consensus from this particular thread is "RAWR!" :rolleyes:
The generic Tetryon Proc (not the Refracting gimmick) is going to be nice versus shields and do nothing special versus hull. So before you kill your target, how many shieldpoints are you going to have to eat through? Borg stuff? Dreadnoughts? Other Players?
(I'm not even going to comment on the complication of Shield Facings getting balanced or not)
Tetryons are the Shield Killers, Disruptors are the Hull Killers (and buff the whole Team's DPS), Antiproton are the all-rounders. The rest are "quirky", with the best of the bunch probably being Plasma for stacked DoTs. And Disruptors and Antiproton are the only ones with a Proc that can be regarded as anything remotely approaching "reliable".
(RAWR!) :P
Forget about the proc.
The damage to shields dealt by tetryons are far inferior (almost embarrasing compared with other weapons) than any other energy weapon type. This means, even if their main proc is to drain shields, it is a fail, so in the end, tetryons are completely useless.
Since the only prupose of tetryon weapons is to drain shields, and if they cant even do that.. they are useless.
And the reason to call em a fail is because, they doesnt work against anything. Period.
Waaaaaay back, there was a slightly different mechanic with Torpedo hits. Whenever a Torpedo impacted upon a target, the torpedo hit got instantly reduced by 75%. The reduced damage was first applied against the shields, then against the hull if the shields dropped.
This meant that if a target even had the slightest sliver of shields up; your torpedo hits were only ever going to be 25% effective.
Sometime between June and Sept 2012 this changed - damage is now still subtracted from the shields as if the shields resisted 75% of it; but if there aren't enough shield points to counteract the entire hit, the remaining damage now gets multiplied back up again before getting subtracted from the Hull.
The upshot is that now it doesn't matter if there's just a sliver of shields up; your Torpedos are just going to bulldoze through that sliver and do roughly the same amount of damage against the hull as they would if the target was fully unshielded.
The Tetryon proc is technically going to be best against very-heavilly-shielded targets with weaker hulls; assuming that you actually need to drop their shields before killing them. If you don't need to drop their shields, you can use something like Nanite Disruptors and Transphasic Torpedos (for bleedthrough) or Plasma Dots or whatever...
...but not many of those situations exist in PvE. In practice, Shield facings can usually be dropped much more easily by power drains or just punching straight through them. And Proc rates being as low as they are, chances are that the shield facing you're attacking will drop before your Tetryons will proc too many times.
The Tetryon proc is technically going to be best against very-heavilly-shielded targets with weaker hulls; assuming that you actually need to drop their shields before killing them. If you don't need to drop their shields, you can use something like Nanite Disruptors and Transphasic Torpedos (for bleedthrough) or Plasma Dots or whatever...
...but not many of those situations exist in PvE. In practice, Shield facings can usually be dropped much more easily by power drains or just punching straight through them. And Proc rates being as low as they are, chances are that the shield facing you're attacking will drop before your Tetryons will proc too many times.
Not really LOL. You just need to try in elite mode fighitng against some undine nicors, apex battleships or watever. It is a hell to try to get rid of their shields. Almost impossible. Any big shielded target i tested back in the days, was a pain. I ended with 50% of my hull points before i can even get rid of half of my enemy's shields. That was with the apex set + tetryon consoles + refractring tetryons. Anyways i tried with normal tetryons as well. In the same circunstances, with just a beam overload from my bortasqu disruptor, my enemy had no shields anymore. After that, piece of cake. With tetryon weapons, impossible.
Comments
This just further cements your testimony as an irrelevant anecdote. Especially if you admit to not having optimized your build for proc drain with flow caps, it's already not a comparison in a vacuum. The fact that contributed to the discussion knowing this reveals that you didn't read my post.
The point here is, that all things remaining the exact same, in a standard, mesurable world that this game will never achieve, is that yes, technically, tetryons are the inferior damage type.
When specced fully into their base damage AND their proc effect, they are still less effective at annihilating your target than any of the other damage types, and once we introduce the complication of that target being controlled, (casting restorative abilities and the like) the gap between them and the others at the back of the pack like polarons and phasers actually widens and they become comparatively worse.
Your parse means nothing because you're talking about points of damage put out. yes, you can put out more points, but it doesn't end the engagement any quicker. Your proc arcs to an enemy, big whoop. They're going to recover while you're still fighting the first target that that refraction did nothing to.
Meanwhile, mirror universe you is shooting the same target with romplas and identically corresponding spec, their first target is going to die faster, and they can then switch and start killing the second target your refraction pinged sooner. Is refraction cool? Yes. Is it superior? No. Will it parse higher? Yes, because it does add damage output, but that's not a measure of effectiveness here given where that damage is going. And then there's the consideration of a 1v1 scenario, when your refraction does nothing and romplas stays just as effective...
This really shouldn't be the third time I've had to walk someone to this conclusion with a leash...
I know the feeling!
I'm not entirely sure which game you're playing, but in Star Trek Online, you rarely have to fight a singular enemy in space. Probes spawn from gates in groups of three or more. In ISE, when you blow up all 4 generators around the big generator, like 7 spheres come out. Voth forces in the space area of the battlezone warp in big groups of more than four. Undine forces in the Undine battlezone routinely come into the zones being captured in groups of three and more.
So, you're right. The proc is useless against single targets. I never said it wasn't. But then again, against a single target I have Torpedo High Yield and Cannon Scatter Volley. Sure, your plasma or disruptor proc may land, which would be nice. In that case, your plasma weapons win whatever it is you're winning. But in the current meta of fighting tons of enemies on screen (Done any of the Undine space STFs lately?) AoEs win.
So again, the proc is good in the right situations (as I've stated before) and useless in others. Does it make the proc useless? It's less utilitarian than plasma or disruptor, but useless? I wouldn't call it that.
Forget it. Buff Tets. I need to do even more ridiculous AE damage...
Have fun in your theory craft. I have fleet mates to laugh with about how bad the people on the forums are...
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
You're putting a LOOOOOT of faith in procs (what seems to be a big mistake of a lot of people) and summarily judging weapons types solely on their proc. All energy types have the same base damage. Or on... something. Plasma magically doing more damage in a similar build than tetryon, I dunno.
When someone posts her build on the forums AND A PARSE of that same build and the numbers speak for themselves and another someone else flat-out refuses such numbers and keeps spewing the same poison to an energy type that IMHO doesn't deserve it... yeah. Blissful ignorance.
I swear, Tetryon haters are more abundant than JJ Abrams haters.
Have you seen how much lensflare there is with Tetryon? :P
And it's... MESMERIZING. BEAUTIFUL.
...Quick, someone photoshop lens flares coming out of the tetryon shots in this pic!
It's not hate, it's logic. It's been laid out extensively over 17 pages and at this point you're selectively reading. Still, I'll try (most likely in vain) to make you understand one last time...
We're evaluating the effectiveness of a weapon type because of its reputation, and I've very clearly, irrefutably illustrated here that technically the reputation is deserved.
All things equal, RNG removed from the equation, tetryons are inferior weapons. There's nothing more to say on the subject, you're free to re read my posts at your leisure, or hell, who are we kidding? Read them for the first time. Either way, I'd recommend it because you're not even really contributing at this point.
"hurr durr procs are such a long shot it's not important"
The proc is what differentiates the weapon and makes it a weapon type, so if we're excluding procs then we're just talking about a big homogeneous pool of vanilla ice cream guns. So I don't even know why you would both bringing that up? If we're not talking about procs, we're not talking about tetryon.
I also explained why a parse doesn't prove weapon or build effectiveness, and why that anecdote and the related build were irrelevant. She might as well have posted her kick TRIBBLE ferengi missile build for all it added to the debate.
I like tets, I think they're cool, I was excited for the sniper cannon, I still want MK 12 piercing tets, but the proc is useless and outclassed by every other proc in game.
Will anything come of this finding? No, they've still got ships to stick hangar bays on and borg cubes to box up for us to actually bother changing a whole weapon type.
Is the signifigance of this disadvantage more or less a wash once you start throwing in the RNG everywhere? Probably, in the current game build I fly a peregrine in the dyson sphere and have the time of my life, connies can solo cubes with an all-marshmallow turret build, and scimitars will get instavaped by hypercrit brels (few of which are tetryon, btw, I wonder why?)
But, all things equal, tetryon is still the worst of the weapons. Bottom line. Conclusion. /thread.
But... but... that is what the phaser people say, too?
They can't both be the worst.
Do you guys get together on the weekends and taunt phased tetryon weapons?
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
My character Tsin'xing
...when somebody so boldly contradicts themselves in their own post like that, folks might just end up having a tendency to gloss over what you're saying.
Poorly worded? Maybe. Contradictory? Hardly. You of all people have read this far, you know what I meant. It's just a low blow to play semantics at this point, not to mention unbecoming.
I don't need reverence for being right. An issue was posed, I provided the answer.
it's nearly a 3 way tie against a dumb target between polaron, phaser, and tetryon. But polaron will drain shield power, aux power, and engine power which negatively affect your target's defense, heals, and shield effectiveness, and phasers will knock shields engines and aux based heals offline, creating a spike version of the same debuffs.
In the fish tank I described earlier, none of them compete in the race between Ap/Dis/Pla, but as more variables are added (moving target, target casting heals) polaron and phaser become more significant contributors to your kill time, whereas tetryon stays at the same level.
Oh well. Have fun arguing over something with absolutely no real evidence to back one argument or the other. I'm out.
Then you DPS must be 2k or something like that lol.
Tetryons are the worst weapons and deal really ridiculous damage. Period. Thats the reason nobody uses em. But this doesnt mean they are cool, of course, thats maybe the only reason people uses em lol.
Maybe you use a new fancy tetryon weapon we are not aware off, lol, and we pure mortals tested thousands of times the ones that are already in the game.. maybe thats the problem. You are talking about a new prototype of tetryon weapon.. lol, because the regular tetryons are pure TRIBBLE. Period.
Did you miss all the pages, where me and other people said that even with the nukara set or the apex one , tetryons are useless??
You dont even need a set or something special to test tetryon weapons. Just a plain build with no tactical consoles and no sets of any kind. Load tetryons of any kind, and use em in advanced / elite mode.
Then, load any other weapon and use it. You will see the difference. If you dont, well, something is really wrong... lol.
No. Phasers are not even close to tetryon. Phasers are far better than tetryons. I use phasers on my DSD and they own. Of course , phasers are worst than any other energy type with the exception of tetryon, but still they are far better. Any energy type is far better than tetryon.
You're the only one that kept parroting it. Just shows how little grasp you have on game mechanics and what a screwed up perception as well.
You're simply wrong, moron.
Like I said in the most, it wasn't meant to be rude. It's just a case of where we are - we're in The Academy. It's neither General Discussion or even Builds. While it hasn't been an all out flamewar, there's definitely been some sizzle to many of the comments and generally a lack of supporting evidence given for many of the claims. "It's this way because I'm right..." isn't really an argument. Definitely not much of an argument when the argument that it's not right has been applied to folks saying something else. "Don't care about your anecdotal evidence, only my anecdotal evidence matters!" All in all, it's a poor showing for The Academy.
One thing that playing STO and spending so much time arguing about mechanics has taught me is that I can be both right and wrong at the same time. I've done videos of toons not losing Aux while running AtB - have had those same toons when BOFFs were changed end up losing Aux while running AtB - only to stop losing Aux again at a random point down the road. I did videos showing that Weapon Power did not drop below 125 while arguing overcap and Beam drain mechanics. That one really took me for a loop, because what I saw day in and day out was it not dropping below 125 - for years that's how it worked for me. I did a Trait respec on one of my toons - and bam - suddenly it worked for that toon the way it was working for all the folks I'd been arguing with forever. Both cases, the videos were there showing that I was right and they were wrong...but they weren't wrong - even though I wasn't either - and what we were saying were basically complete opposites. That's the nature of STO unfortunately...meh.
This thread is just so full of folks saying X is Y because they say so. The thread is just so full of folks forming conclusions based off of evidence that would actually suggest the opposite of the conclusions they're making. This thread is just so full of folks doing X or Y instead of X and Y. The thread is just so full of folks spreading misinformation - not even a case of it being their opinion, just outright misinformation.
All intermixed with more than a little sizzle...little flamewar skirmishes...
All in all...the thread's pretty much useless because there's so much garbage to sift through. It can't even serve the purpose of pointing out where one type would be better than another - because there's just so much garbage in the thread...
Or is this more conjecture based on percieved poor performance due to changes in gameplay?
R.I.P
Ok, so 99& of the people who plays STO are wrong, and you are right. Ok, sir.
Tetryons are useless, THAT everybody knows, and that was the very first point of the thread in the first place. Once you know they are TRIBBLE, the next step is to see what type of em are maybe more decent than others. That was the title of the thread "which one isn't fail". BUT, we already knew they were useless. Are you guys the ones who are trying to say the opposite to people who are trying to make em work since ages ago.
Saying means nothing. TESTING means everything. Science. Look it up.
I'm fairly sure the only consensus from this particular thread is "RAWR!" :rolleyes:
The generic Tetryon Proc (not the Refracting gimmick) is going to be nice versus shields and do nothing special versus hull. So before you kill your target, how many shieldpoints are you going to have to eat through? Borg stuff? Dreadnoughts? Other Players?
(I'm not even going to comment on the complication of Shield Facings getting balanced or not)
Tetryons are the Shield Killers, Disruptors are the Hull Killers (and buff the whole Team's DPS), Antiproton are the all-rounders. The rest are "quirky", with the best of the bunch probably being Plasma for stacked DoTs. And Disruptors and Antiproton are the only ones with a Proc that can be regarded as anything remotely approaching "reliable".
(RAWR!) :P
The only thing you can do is to call me a liar. But honestly i dont have any reason to lie about testing tetryon weapons. Some of you are just real morons, you know? i was the one in the first place who wanted a tetryon build for my apex. And i spent about 2-3 months trying to make it work. Did i take "notes"??? of course not. Did i save all my results in word documents, lol?? no. You can believe what you want lol, i really dont care, but i have very clear that tetryons are TRIBBLE. Period. Checked millions of times. Now, everyone can do watever he wants, but if he thinks he is doing great with a tetryon build.. he is really wrong. And he is fooling himself lol.
THATS The problem. They should be shield killers, but they arent. The only "good" thing about tetryons is that they drain the target's shield. But that is a LIE!!!. As i said millions of times, you can drain your target's shields with any other energy type 10000 times faster!!. And this is the whole point of the post!!! zzzzzzz. As i said, disruptors works 1000 times better than tetryons!!. Or antiprotons!!, or plasma!!, even phasers!! lol.
Shield balancing... well, in theory Tet works against that be depleting all facings simultaneously. In theory.... in practice the Tet proc doesn't do enough damage to be a major factor. Then again procs don't do much overall.
My character Tsin'xing
Forget about the proc.
The damage to shields dealt by tetryons are far inferior (almost embarrasing compared with other weapons) than any other energy weapon type. This means, even if their main proc is to drain shields, it is a fail, so in the end, tetryons are completely useless.
Since the only prupose of tetryon weapons is to drain shields, and if they cant even do that.. they are useless.
And the reason to call em a fail is because, they doesnt work against anything. Period.
U]Storytime mode on[/U
Tets used to be a heck of a lot better for this.
Waaaaaay back, there was a slightly different mechanic with Torpedo hits. Whenever a Torpedo impacted upon a target, the torpedo hit got instantly reduced by 75%. The reduced damage was first applied against the shields, then against the hull if the shields dropped.
This meant that if a target even had the slightest sliver of shields up; your torpedo hits were only ever going to be 25% effective.
Sometime between June and Sept 2012 this changed - damage is now still subtracted from the shields as if the shields resisted 75% of it; but if there aren't enough shield points to counteract the entire hit, the remaining damage now gets multiplied back up again before getting subtracted from the Hull.
The upshot is that now it doesn't matter if there's just a sliver of shields up; your Torpedos are just going to bulldoze through that sliver and do roughly the same amount of damage against the hull as they would if the target was fully unshielded.
U]Storytime mode off[/U
The Tetryon proc is technically going to be best against very-heavilly-shielded targets with weaker hulls; assuming that you actually need to drop their shields before killing them. If you don't need to drop their shields, you can use something like Nanite Disruptors and Transphasic Torpedos (for bleedthrough) or Plasma Dots or whatever...
...but not many of those situations exist in PvE. In practice, Shield facings can usually be dropped much more easily by power drains or just punching straight through them. And Proc rates being as low as they are, chances are that the shield facing you're attacking will drop before your Tetryons will proc too many times.
R.I.P
Not really LOL. You just need to try in elite mode fighitng against some undine nicors, apex battleships or watever. It is a hell to try to get rid of their shields. Almost impossible. Any big shielded target i tested back in the days, was a pain. I ended with 50% of my hull points before i can even get rid of half of my enemy's shields. That was with the apex set + tetryon consoles + refractring tetryons. Anyways i tried with normal tetryons as well. In the same circunstances, with just a beam overload from my bortasqu disruptor, my enemy had no shields anymore. After that, piece of cake. With tetryon weapons, impossible.