The way to make Tetryon useful is to have the proc increase the regen delay. Then you could blast through shields like normal and keep them down longer, providing a larger opportunity window for burst shots (ie torps, BO, whatever).
For tetryon to be useful, the rate at which the enemy shields goes down should be 250% faster than with any other weapon. Its not the case, not only that, the rate is even lower than using any other weapon, something i never understood. Whats the point of using a weapon that supossedly drains my target's shield if that is not true? it doesnt matter what tetryon type you use or it doesnt matter if you max the proc of tetryon weapons, its the same, completely useless in comparison with all the other weapon types. And once the enemy shields are down, it doesnt matter wat what rate they regenerate (if you keep firing the same side, no shields will regenerate no matter what and no matter what weapon u use), so again tetryon is useless.
Im pretty sure that the Hirogen has their secrets to make tetryon useful :P, maybe one day they will pass their knowledge to normal people lol.
For tetryon to be useful, the rate at which the enemy shields goes down should be 250% faster than with any other weapon.
The proc would still be useless when shields were down.
once the enemy shields are down, it doesnt matter wat what rate they regenerate (if you keep firing the same side, no shields will regenerate no matter what and no matter what weapon u use)
That's incorrect. Shields regenerate every few seconds. Any little bit of shielding will block torp damage or a beam overload, and absorb energy damage. By stretching out the regen time, the shield would stay down longer, which would let you do more damage directly to hull. This is how Tetryon proc coulld be made useful, increasing damage to hull by preventing shields from coming back online.
It's a shame crew are useless, isn't tetryon radiation supposed to be really harmful to people? Maybe it could muss people's CDs or Accuracy or something. There's so many different things in this game that contribute to ACC, it'd be nice to have something that worked like "sand attack" from pokemon or something...
Looking at memory alpha, they have recurringly been used as a stealth/masking mechanic. A "-x acc for 10-15 seconds" would be real nice.
The proc would still be useless when shields were down.
Limited thinking DPS centric mentality. Stripping shields isn't about one-man destroying a target. Yes, the proc is useless after the shield is down, but having the shield down makes the target more vulnerable, specially if a teammate can sweep in and clean up.
Having said that, I find the tetryon proc useless given the shield regen rate, specially in PvP. If you want to get someone's shields down, tachyon beam will do it on a drain boat. Tetryon weapons, even on a dedicated drain boat with the 10% tetryon proc and tetryon glider combined, are pretty bad.
When it comes to tactics, energy drain always trumps shield drain in this game. If you want to strip shields, just stick to tachyon beam.
When it comes to tactics, energy drain always trumps shield drain in this game. If you want to strip shields, just stick to tachyon beam.
LOL, if i want to strip shields i use a beam overload and thats it. Faster method ever. Even with a non tetryon beam overload you will drain far more shields. Its ridiculous. lol.
In my opinion Tetryon weapons are FAIL. I've got 'em on my DN. But they just don't do any damage. So as soon as possible I'l replace them. No more Tetryons for me. I've got all the consoles, that should make them more powerful, but they just don't do any damage. Tho I lkie their colour and sound effects, but this is all there is of them. It's like shooting enemies with phaser banks MK I.
Tetryons do the same base damage as any other energy type for a specific wepon. So I'm not sure what you mean when you say they don't do any damage.
Could you give more information? What weapons do you have? What ship? What equipment?
A common Mk X Tetryon Beam Array will do the same base damage as a common Mk X Phaser beam array. But if you upgraded that beam array to, say, the rare Mk XI Antiproton Beam Array from the Solnae mission, your new beam array will indeed do more damage.
The bulk of this entire thread is focused on the proc bonus of the energy types. Not the actual damage of the energy types.
I completely disagree. ITs far from being exactly the same as any other weapon. That is what i thought at the beginning, but i was completely mistaken. The damage output is ridiculous , no matter what.
I have no problems getting comparable yields out of Tetryon compared to other non-Tetryon types.
PVP is dead so, we are not talking about pvp. Tetryon is cheap because it is the most useless weapon type in the game.
Tetryon isn't the most useless weapon type in the game, if we ignore PvP. Phaser is. The Tetryon proc still CAUSES DAMAGE TO THINGS. It does so very infrequently, and often has limited effect, but you still get that little bit of extra shield bite. Which doesn't appear in the logs, far as I can tell.
Now phaser? Phaser does absolutely nothing in PvE. NPCs are simply imipervious to random system disables, as they do not use their systems for anything. Even a shield disable, absolutely deadly in PvP, is irrelevant to an NPC, as their giant bag of hitpoints will protect them long enough for the shields to come back online, after which you must then drill through the shield anyway. Phaser sells purely because of its PvP value, and because it is required by certain Fed ships that have fixed energy type powers.
i've personally been researching tetryon on my alt, and as someone who has used antiproton for years, i've been comparing stuff to my main.
my main has antiproton with obelisk and critical chance consoles. it has as many things as i can get on it for critical chance. i have a 10% crit chance, and a 90% crit severity, on top of the 169.5% antiproton damage from 5 fleet consoles and the 2 piece antiproton set. this is just about as high as antiproton specific attacks could ever get for this ship at the moment.
tetryon on the other can have alot higher base damage, with a slight drop in critical damage to do not having the antiproton's critical severity bonus. after all antiproton only helps the severity of the critical, not the chance of it.
my "better then antiproton" tetryon build consists of:
nukara space 2 piece - 7.6% tetryon damage. (total 7.6%)
hirogen space 2 piece - 7.6% tetryon damage (total 15.2%)
x5 fleet tactical consoles - 159.5% tetryon damage (total 174.7%)
fleet warpcore with AMP proc (anywhere from 3% to 12%, forget exactly how much AMP does, but yay for all energy bonus)
end total is a possible 185% tetryon damage (give or take a few points). this is a noticable leap from 169.5% from antiproton. so you may have less critical, but more base damage. it comes down to deciding which you'd rather have in a fight.
only downside to maxing tetryon is that some of the pieces you need are lobi only.
i also plan to use refracting tetryon, for the purpose that i generally use alot of AoEs anyway, and the refracting proc will allow me to hit all the enemies in my multivector's gravity well even better then just a storm of scatter volley will.
Now phaser? Phaser does absolutely nothing in PvE. NPCs are simply imipervious to random system disables, as they do not use their systems for anything. Even a shield disable, absolutely deadly in PvP, is irrelevant to an NPC, as their giant bag of hitpoints will protect them long enough for the shields to come back online, after which you must then drill through the shield anyway. Phaser sells purely because of its PvP value, and because it is required by certain Fed ships that have fixed energy type powers.
Good sir, Phasers are not only cannon to feds and good looking on any fed ships but their utility is still on highest level. a lot of things you probably do not understand about phasers in PVE. Shutting down system is fine, but combining this with sub-system targeting and random phaser shut down and viral matrix on the top will give you cool results in PVE (I dont bother much with PVP)
-shutting down weapons for 5 sec will give your entire team - peace to finish off the target without being hit by random 20-30k torpedos or ...you know. Its minor benefit but its not bad.
- shutting down shields for 5 sec will kill the target almost instantly - if being with fleet members or really good team...even if you cannot do that the target will remain at ~30-40% hull and then all his shields will go up.
- shutting down engines = "hold"/immobile = 100% accuracy for all your team weapons cuz enemy target will have 0% defense.
-shutting down auxiliry for example vs Valdore = she wont turn invisible even if ppl are close to her.
So...yea its not BEST gun there is but surely is not useless. If we have to be honest its better than tetryon in terms of utility cuz - tetryin deals shield damage but phaser cut down all shields instantly...so in theory phaser can "drain" shield power, remove regeneration and even cut down the entire system
PS: Phased Tetryons are good because of this - the phaser proc that is.
PS2: Phasers are overall good at any toon - a lot of escorts using phasers that cut down shields ended blowing the enemy faster than AP. Its still a chance but nevertheless - each toon type can benefit a lot or less from an energy gun type - we just have to find out which is best for us not follow what people say
So...yea its not BEST gun there is but surely is not useless. If we have to be honest its better than tetryon in terms of utility cuz - tetryin deals shield damage but phaser cut down all shields instantly...so in theory phaser can "drain" shield power, remove regeneration and even cut down the entire system
Okay.... I agree with this, but only a little bit.
Tet often knocks out shields completely when I use it. I have some Pol cannons on my Mirror Adv. Escort, but when I'm running broadside, my rear Tet beams still drop all shield facings (like total shutdown.... I thought is was a glitch, but it seems to only be happening to the Tet and Phaser weapons, as well as disruptors, sometimes) It seems almost like that one Sci (it's a Sci ability, I think) ability that drops all the shield facings down to 0, but I don't have it, lol.
Anyway, regular blue or purple Tet beams seem to be knocking out shield systems the same way the phasers do. So, I buy Tet ASAP after toon creation, and I'm strafing the TRIBBLE outta people with my beams.
Phaser also doesn't have the same DPS as Tet, I think. Tell me if any of you noticed my 'glitch' at all. Or if it's not a glitch.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "That is truly amazing. That is so amazingly amazing, I'd like to steal it." - Zaphod Beeblebrox
Tetryons look and sound nice. There's no challenge left in STO, so why not sleep through its easy content in style?
Because one thing is to play for fun, other thing is to waste a lot of time killing a ship when there is no need. I love tetryon sounds and graphics, but as i said, they are not even worthy to use for just fun. I was one of those who coudnt believe that tetryon weapons were so useless, but sadly it is a fact.
end total is a possible 185% tetryon damage (give or take a few points). this is a noticable leap from 169.5% from antiproton. so you may have less critical, but more base damage. it comes down to deciding which you'd rather have in a fight.
Thats the whole problem. DAMAGE to shields in tetryon weapons is ridiculous. And they are supossed to be "good" draning shields. So it doesnt matter how much you boost it. I also tried with the hirogen / apex set and the nukara one. And with flow capacitors maxed as well. Again, a waste.
i've personally been researching tetryon on my alt, and as someone who has used antiproton for years, i've been comparing stuff to my main.
my main has antiproton with obelisk and critical chance consoles. it has as many things as i can get on it for critical chance. i have a 10% crit chance, and a 90% crit severity, on top of the 169.5% antiproton damage from 5 fleet consoles and the 2 piece antiproton set. this is just about as high as antiproton specific attacks could ever get for this ship at the moment.
tetryon on the other can have alot higher base damage, with a slight drop in critical damage to do not having the antiproton's critical severity bonus. after all antiproton only helps the severity of the critical, not the chance of it.
my "better then antiproton" tetryon build consists of:
nukara space 2 piece - 7.6% tetryon damage. (total 7.6%)
hirogen space 2 piece - 7.6% tetryon damage (total 15.2%)
x5 fleet tactical consoles - 159.5% tetryon damage (total 174.7%)
fleet warpcore with AMP proc (anywhere from 3% to 12%, forget exactly how much AMP does, but yay for all energy bonus)
end total is a possible 185% tetryon damage (give or take a few points). this is a noticable leap from 169.5% from antiproton. so you may have less critical, but more base damage. it comes down to deciding which you'd rather have in a fight.
only downside to maxing tetryon is that some of the pieces you need are lobi only.
i also plan to use refracting tetryon, for the purpose that i generally use alot of AoEs anyway, and the refracting proc will allow me to hit all the enemies in my multivector's gravity well even better then just a storm of scatter volley will.
You probably built the best possible tetryon damage build and yet, you failed to mention one other improvement you obtained with the setup which leads me to think you're more of a tac than a sci captain, but yes, this would maximize things tetryon wise.
Tetryons, same as Disruptors (lesser Attack Pattern Beta), are more team support weapons rather then solo play. Tetryons proc bonus deal damage to all four shields at the same time, not only the one you shooting at, with proper number in Flow Cap. it deal 1,5k dmg each stuck.
No , you wrong guys. Disruptors have nothing to do with tetryons. As everybody said millions of times, not just now, but for the past "years", tetryon weapons are useless. They are just broken.
Disruptors are FAR SUPERIOR than tetryon weapons. Because they deal damage. Everything that is not able to deal a minimum ammount of damage is useless in STO. Specially if that weapon is designed to drain shields and that is also a lie LOL. So tetryons are useless. No matter what you use to boost em lol. And no. Disruptors are not a "support" type weapon. They deal same damage as any other weapon (in fact almost every weapon in STO deals the same base damage in the description, but that is not true in the case of phasers or tetryons, as i noticed).
In the opposite, disruptors are just like antiproton, plasma, and other weapons. They are just great. And you can boost em with the same performance as any other weapon, with the exception, again of tetryon ones. And maybe phasers a little, but still phasers are by far superior than tetryons lol.
And no. Im tired of using tetryon weapons for the past 3 months. They only drain the faced shield. At least in my case or i didnt notice any real drain on the other faces. And it doesnt matter how maxed you have your flow capacitors skill, as i said i had that maximized as well and nothing changed. And the rate is so stupidly low, that it takes ages to drain any shield of any enemy ship. At least in advanced / elite mode. Curious thing is, i also tried in normal mode, and still, its really dumb how much time it takes to get rid of your enemy's shields. Ridiculous.
No , you wrong guys. Disruptors have nothing to do with tetryons. As everybody said millions of times, not just now, but for the past "years", tetryon weapons are useless. They are just broken.
Disruptors are FAR SUPERIOR than tetryon weapons. Because they deal damage. Everything that is not able to deal a minimum ammount of damage is useless in STO. Specially if that weapon is designed to drain shields and that is also a lie LOL. So tetryons are useless. No matter what you use to boost em lol. And no. Disruptors are not a "support" type weapon. They deal same damage as any other weapon (in fact almost every weapon in STO deals the same base damage in the description, but that is not true in the case of phasers or tetryons, as i noticed).
Disruptors and tetryon are effectively the same. One does extra damage to shields, one does extra damage to hull. One could argue disruptors are more useless then tetryopn as once a targets shields are down its pretty much dead anyway and disruptors are useless when shields are up.
I never understood why people talk about the tet proc being useless when shields are down but not how the disruptor proc is mostly useless when shields are up.
The Disruptor Proc works even if the shields are still up as there are not only quite a number of ways of applying damage directly to the hull - there is also bleedthrough damage to keep in mind even with full shields. And as the Disruptor proc applies to the target for everyone shooting at it, it cumulatively helps the entire group taking down targets quicker. Works about the same as Attack Pattern Beta.
Disruptors and tetryon are effectively the same. One does extra damage to shields, one does extra damage to hull. One could argue disruptors are more useless then tetryopn as once a targets shields are down its pretty much dead anyway and disruptors are useless when shields are up.
I never understood why people talk about the tet proc being useless when shields are down but not how the disruptor proc is mostly useless when shields are up.
I agree... The one thing that consistently gets ignored by the Tetryon-Haters is that, once shields are out of the way, the Tetryon beams have the exact same base damage as any other beam in the game (doesn't matter if it's AP, Dis, Pha, Pol, etc...)... But how are you going to get the shields down?
The Disruptor Proc works even if the shields are still up as there are not only quite a number of ways of applying damage directly to the hull...
Same argument applies here with the Tetryons as opposed to the Disruptors... It's only a percent chance to proc with disruptors. (Hypothetically) if you can do 1200 DPS with one Disruptor beam array, and it only has a 2.5% proc chance, then only 30 DPS is hitting the hull... Some have said that the Tetryon proc is cancelled by ST1 and a quick shield regen. but if you're only hitting my hull with 30 DPS, then a quick ET1 will cancel that out as well!
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
I agree... The one thing that consistently gets ignored by the Tetryon-Haters is that, once shields are out of the way, the Tetryon beams have the exact same base damage as any other beam in the game (doesn't matter if it's AP, Dis, Pha, Pol, etc...)... But how are you going to get the shields down?
Same argument applies here with the Tetryons as opposed to the Disruptors... It's only a percent chance to proc with disruptors. (Hypothetically) if you can do 1200 DPS with one Disruptor beam array, and it only has a 2.5% proc chance, then only 30 DPS is hitting the hull... Some have said that the Tetryon proc is cancelled by ST1 and a quick shield regen. but if you're only hitting my hull with 30 DPS, then a quick ET1 will cancel that out as well!
CM
Nah, you dont get it. Once the shields are down, tetryon weapons do NOTHING. ALL THE WEAPONS in the game are supossed to deal the same base damage, we all know that. It is how is intended. The only thing that changes is the proc. But i tell you again, this doesnt apply to tetryon weapons. Tetryon weapons are ridiculous weak against shields, and completely useless against NON shielded ships. For reasons we will never understand. I NEVER pick a weapon for the proc, that is useless to me. I just pick the weapon i like the most and of course, its effective. Disruptors have the same damabe as tetryon, of course since as i said, EVERY weapon in the game has the same base damage (with the exception of antiproton that is a little higher) with the difference, disruptors damage is not broken. And i am not talking about the proc. Im talking about the base damage. Any weapon with a minimum base damage will affect enemy's shields in any way. Is not the case of tetryon weapons.
You can waste 10 minutes trying to kill a ship(way of speaking) with a basic tetryon build, and you will waste 45 seconds using disruptors. Is that simple. And the difference is so high, that there is no point at all about using tetryon weapons.
If someone believes they are doing great with tetryon weapons, i suggest you switch to elite difficulty and see the results lol. And if you think your tetryon weapons are effective, switch to a disruptor build and see the difference. Lol.
Procs on the weapons mean nothing. If a ship cant deal almost the same base damage with an energy type without taking in consideration the procs of the weapon, that weapon is broken. Is that simple. Thats the reason phasers were always considered "nerfed" or broken, and tetryons even worst.
Of course, i never mentioned it, but we are talking about advanced / elite difficulty. There is no point on talking about this if we use normal mode. Since in normal mode, even a stone will destroy a npc ship. :P
Sorry... I really am... I fly an Odyssey, with a science captain, in a full Nukara (3pc + 2pc) with refracting tetryon beams (7+1 mine) and 3 spire tac consoles, tachyokinetic converter, Rom rep console, etc... and it's NEVER taken me over 45 seconds to tear a ship apart...
I took the AP consoles and beams off my Tac Vesta and threw them on my Odyssey... You'll never believe me, and puke out garbage about needing evidence, but it did worse!
... and I only run elites...
CM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
Nah, you dont get it. Once the shields are down, tetryon weapons do NOTHING. ALL THE WEAPONS in the game are supossed to deal the same base damage, we all know that. It is how is intended. The only thing that changes is the proc. But i tell you again, this doesnt apply to tetryon weapons. Tetryon weapons are ridiculous weak against shields, and completely useless against NON shielded ships. For reasons we will never understand. I NEVER pick a weapon for the proc, that is useless to me. I just pick the weapon i like the most and of course, its effective. Disruptors have the same damabe as tetryon, of course since as i said, EVERY weapon in the game has the same base damage (with the exception of antiproton that is a little higher) with the difference, disruptors damage is not broken. And i am not talking about the proc. Im talking about the base damage. Any weapon with a minimum base damage will affect enemy's shields in any way. Is not the case of tetryon weapons.
You can waste 10 minutes trying to kill a ship(way of speaking) with a basic tetryon build, and you will waste 45 seconds using disruptors. Is that simple. And the difference is so high, that there is no point at all about using tetryon weapons.
If someone believes they are doing great with tetryon weapons, i suggest you switch to elite difficulty and see the results lol. And if you think your tetryon weapons are effective, switch to a disruptor build and see the difference. Lol.
Procs on the weapons mean nothing. If a ship cant deal almost the same base damage with an energy type without taking in consideration the procs of the weapon, that weapon is broken. Is that simple. Thats the reason phasers were always considered "nerfed" or broken, and tetryons even worst.
Of course, i never mentioned it, but we are talking about advanced / elite difficulty. There is no point on talking about this if we use normal mode. Since in normal mode, even a stone will destroy a npc ship. :P
Where do you come off with this absurdity? Did a Tetryon beam touch your aft in a naughty way, or something? Did it bring your underwear shields offline?
Because my Reman in his freebie Aves-class is sporting Refracting Tetryon DHCs and he shreds through everything and everyone with them, and he does so JUST as effectively as he did when he rocked Plasma DHCs. If there's a DPS loss there, it's negligible.
Procs don't land as often as you or a lot of people think, which means all energy weapon types are pretty damn useful because they all deal damage, so no weapon type sucks or rocks. When my KDF ships land Disruptor procs I don't even notice it, and if I don't notice them, the effect they have has to be minor.
You're also comparing Elite Fleet Disruptors to rep Tetryons or just plain Tetryons, and there is a definite damage difference in Elite Fleet weapons over Rep or non-rep weapons, so your argument is kinda moot.
Not sure if it was mentioned, but there was a period of time where Tetryon Arrays were bugged and actually did less damage with FAW than other Arrays did. This could have created the atmosphere of Tetryon being horrible - because quite literally they were in comparison to the other Arrays. However, that bug was addressed. Somebody may have mentioned it, but I -uh- didn't really read through the thread...just thought it was worth mentioning (even mentioning again at that). It wasn't fixed until December 5th, 2013...
Nah, you dont get it. Once the shields are down, tetryon weapons do NOTHING. ALL THE WEAPONS in the game are supossed to deal the same base damage, we all know that. It is how is intended. The only thing that changes is the proc. But i tell you again, this doesnt apply to tetryon weapons. Tetryon weapons are ridiculous weak against shields, and completely useless against NON shielded ships. For reasons we will never understand. I NEVER pick a weapon for the proc, that is useless to me. I just pick the weapon i like the most and of course, its effective. Disruptors have the same damabe as tetryon, of course since as i said, EVERY weapon in the game has the same base damage (with the exception of antiproton that is a little higher) with the difference, disruptors damage is not broken. And i am not talking about the proc. Im talking about the base damage. Any weapon with a minimum base damage will affect enemy's shields in any way. Is not the case of tetryon weapons.
You can waste 10 minutes trying to kill a ship(way of speaking) with a basic tetryon build, and you will waste 45 seconds using disruptors. Is that simple. And the difference is so high, that there is no point at all about using tetryon weapons.
If someone believes they are doing great with tetryon weapons, i suggest you switch to elite difficulty and see the results lol. And if you think your tetryon weapons are effective, switch to a disruptor build and see the difference. Lol.
Procs on the weapons mean nothing. If a ship cant deal almost the same base damage with an energy type without taking in consideration the procs of the weapon, that weapon is broken. Is that simple. Thats the reason phasers were always considered "nerfed" or broken, and tetryons even worst.
Of course, i never mentioned it, but we are talking about advanced / elite difficulty. There is no point on talking about this if we use normal mode. Since in normal mode, even a stone will destroy a npc ship. :P
It is you who doesn't get it. Tetryon can do extra damage when shields are down. I have 100% reflect chance to hit nearby ships stripping there shields ready to kill. I also swapped to Disruptors and took a large DPS drop. Took way longer to kill groups with Disruptors over Tetryon. What makes Teyron so good are the synergy bonus which let me do more damage to NPC groups then Disruptors.
When I fight the first group in Azure nebula I can get 30k to 40k burst damage killing the entire group in my cruiser with Tetryon. I get under 15kdps burst with disputer.
Procs don't land as often as you or a lot of people think, which means all energy weapon types are pretty damn useful because they all deal damage, so no weapon type sucks or rocks.
I just feel the need to repeat this statement. Procs aren't all that important for mainstream difficulty, endgame content. Yes, some weapon types synergize with certain builds, but it's really not a critical element of your build unless you're min/maxing.
Weapons literally only proc 25 times out of 1000 shots.
I have a friend in a R'morr-type temporal science ship who just waltzes around borg cubes and melts everything with tetryon (single!) cannons and turrets, so tetryon is clearly not inferior to any other weapon type.
Weapons literally only proc 25 times out of 1000 shots.
I'd drop the literally part...well...I guess the whole statement, to be honest.
You could have 1000 procs or 1000 no procs with 1000 shots. It's not a 2.5 times out of 100 (25 times out of 1000) sort of thing. It's a 2.5% per cycle per weapon. Could happen all the time or could never happen...it depends on how the RNG Gods favor you.
With 8 weapons of the same type, you're looking at ~18.3% probability that at least one of the weapons will drop out that 2.5% proc. With it being per cycle, you're looking at that ~18.3% being every 5+ seconds for beams and every 3+ seconds for cannons.
In a 15s period (where the 5s and 3s RoFs meet), you're looking at...
45.5% probability of at least one proc with the 8 same energy beams.
63.7% probability of at least one proc with the 8 same energy cannons.
CRF, by increasing the actual RoF would slightly increase the probability by adding a cycle. FAW simply adds another shot, so the cycle duration remains the same. As for how procs work with FAW/CSV...you know, I just don't know. No idea off hand if the proc would actually apply to the multiple targets or each target would get its own proc roll for the cycle. Hrmm, curious to know if anybody knows the answer for that, mind you...
Not many folks tend to run 8x, though - eh? Tend to work in that KCB, in a boat with only 7 or 6 weapons, so down to 6 or 5...might have a torp/mines mixed in, etc, etc, etc. So yeah, it's pretty much spreadsheet warrior stuff - folks would have to look at their particular builds and work through their particular math...
...but even that 63.7% guy might see 40 procs or 0 procs during that 15s period - because it's still a chance per cycle, not a guarantee that out of so many cycles that it will happen. RNG favors some and not others...you can try to minimize your dependence on it or you can try to maximize it while crossing your fingers.
I thought I'd jump in and post my thoughts on this. Tetryon was my first real weapon build, after taking some advice from a poster on the old forums. I replayed the mission "The New Link" about a dozen times and picked up a variety of different beam arrays and dual beam banks. (In those days, I only used beams). After that, I used Tetryon exclusively for a long time, first getting a bunch of Phased Tetryon beams from lock boxes, then graduating to Fleet Tet's. After I discovered cannons, I outfitted my MVAE with Fleet Tetryon cannons.
I eventually moved on to other weapon types, such as Phaser and Anti-Proton, but never forgot my first love of Tet's. After picking up some fleet consoles, I got into my old MVAE after a long absence and took it out for a spin. I was sorely disappointed in it's performance. Even with a build well thought out to max out the Flow Capacitors and damage, I could kill NPC's twice as fast with almost any other weapon type than with Tetryon's. (I only PvE, so PvP concerns and strategies' don't affect me). Tetryons just didn't cut it anymore.
So, my advice to anyone when it comes to Tetryon weapons: They are great when you are first starting out. You can get really good Tetryon weapons for free simply by replaying "The New Link" and it's not difficult to save your pennies for the consoles and deflector that will assist you in this build. However, once you reach end-game, you will do better to move on to other weapon types. Tetryons just don't do the damage that other weapons do. Sad, but true.
Comments
For tetryon to be useful, the rate at which the enemy shields goes down should be 250% faster than with any other weapon. Its not the case, not only that, the rate is even lower than using any other weapon, something i never understood. Whats the point of using a weapon that supossedly drains my target's shield if that is not true? it doesnt matter what tetryon type you use or it doesnt matter if you max the proc of tetryon weapons, its the same, completely useless in comparison with all the other weapon types. And once the enemy shields are down, it doesnt matter wat what rate they regenerate (if you keep firing the same side, no shields will regenerate no matter what and no matter what weapon u use), so again tetryon is useless.
Im pretty sure that the Hirogen has their secrets to make tetryon useful :P, maybe one day they will pass their knowledge to normal people lol.
That's incorrect. Shields regenerate every few seconds. Any little bit of shielding will block torp damage or a beam overload, and absorb energy damage. By stretching out the regen time, the shield would stay down longer, which would let you do more damage directly to hull. This is how Tetryon proc coulld be made useful, increasing damage to hull by preventing shields from coming back online.
Looking at memory alpha, they have recurringly been used as a stealth/masking mechanic. A "-x acc for 10-15 seconds" would be real nice.
Limited thinking DPS centric mentality. Stripping shields isn't about one-man destroying a target. Yes, the proc is useless after the shield is down, but having the shield down makes the target more vulnerable, specially if a teammate can sweep in and clean up.
Having said that, I find the tetryon proc useless given the shield regen rate, specially in PvP. If you want to get someone's shields down, tachyon beam will do it on a drain boat. Tetryon weapons, even on a dedicated drain boat with the 10% tetryon proc and tetryon glider combined, are pretty bad.
When it comes to tactics, energy drain always trumps shield drain in this game. If you want to strip shields, just stick to tachyon beam.
LOL, if i want to strip shields i use a beam overload and thats it. Faster method ever. Even with a non tetryon beam overload you will drain far more shields. Its ridiculous. lol.
Tetryons do the same base damage as any other energy type for a specific wepon. So I'm not sure what you mean when you say they don't do any damage.
Could you give more information? What weapons do you have? What ship? What equipment?
A common Mk X Tetryon Beam Array will do the same base damage as a common Mk X Phaser beam array. But if you upgraded that beam array to, say, the rare Mk XI Antiproton Beam Array from the Solnae mission, your new beam array will indeed do more damage.
The bulk of this entire thread is focused on the proc bonus of the energy types. Not the actual damage of the energy types.
Tetryon isn't the most useless weapon type in the game, if we ignore PvP. Phaser is. The Tetryon proc still CAUSES DAMAGE TO THINGS. It does so very infrequently, and often has limited effect, but you still get that little bit of extra shield bite. Which doesn't appear in the logs, far as I can tell.
Now phaser? Phaser does absolutely nothing in PvE. NPCs are simply imipervious to random system disables, as they do not use their systems for anything. Even a shield disable, absolutely deadly in PvP, is irrelevant to an NPC, as their giant bag of hitpoints will protect them long enough for the shields to come back online, after which you must then drill through the shield anyway. Phaser sells purely because of its PvP value, and because it is required by certain Fed ships that have fixed energy type powers.
my main has antiproton with obelisk and critical chance consoles. it has as many things as i can get on it for critical chance. i have a 10% crit chance, and a 90% crit severity, on top of the 169.5% antiproton damage from 5 fleet consoles and the 2 piece antiproton set. this is just about as high as antiproton specific attacks could ever get for this ship at the moment.
tetryon on the other can have alot higher base damage, with a slight drop in critical damage to do not having the antiproton's critical severity bonus. after all antiproton only helps the severity of the critical, not the chance of it.
my "better then antiproton" tetryon build consists of:
nukara space 2 piece - 7.6% tetryon damage. (total 7.6%)
hirogen space 2 piece - 7.6% tetryon damage (total 15.2%)
x5 fleet tactical consoles - 159.5% tetryon damage (total 174.7%)
fleet warpcore with AMP proc (anywhere from 3% to 12%, forget exactly how much AMP does, but yay for all energy bonus)
end total is a possible 185% tetryon damage (give or take a few points). this is a noticable leap from 169.5% from antiproton. so you may have less critical, but more base damage. it comes down to deciding which you'd rather have in a fight.
only downside to maxing tetryon is that some of the pieces you need are lobi only.
i also plan to use refracting tetryon, for the purpose that i generally use alot of AoEs anyway, and the refracting proc will allow me to hit all the enemies in my multivector's gravity well even better then just a storm of scatter volley will.
Good sir, Phasers are not only cannon to feds and good looking on any fed ships but their utility is still on highest level. a lot of things you probably do not understand about phasers in PVE. Shutting down system is fine, but combining this with sub-system targeting and random phaser shut down and viral matrix on the top will give you cool results in PVE (I dont bother much with PVP)
-shutting down weapons for 5 sec will give your entire team - peace to finish off the target without being hit by random 20-30k torpedos or ...you know. Its minor benefit but its not bad.
- shutting down shields for 5 sec will kill the target almost instantly - if being with fleet members or really good team...even if you cannot do that the target will remain at ~30-40% hull and then all his shields will go up.
- shutting down engines = "hold"/immobile = 100% accuracy for all your team weapons cuz enemy target will have 0% defense.
-shutting down auxiliry for example vs Valdore = she wont turn invisible even if ppl are close to her.
So...yea its not BEST gun there is but surely is not useless. If we have to be honest its better than tetryon in terms of utility cuz - tetryin deals shield damage but phaser cut down all shields instantly...so in theory phaser can "drain" shield power, remove regeneration and even cut down the entire system
PS: Phased Tetryons are good because of this - the phaser proc that is.
PS2: Phasers are overall good at any toon - a lot of escorts using phasers that cut down shields ended blowing the enemy faster than AP. Its still a chance but nevertheless - each toon type can benefit a lot or less from an energy gun type - we just have to find out which is best for us not follow what people say
Okay.... I agree with this, but only a little bit.
Tet often knocks out shields completely when I use it. I have some Pol cannons on my Mirror Adv. Escort, but when I'm running broadside, my rear Tet beams still drop all shield facings (like total shutdown.... I thought is was a glitch, but it seems to only be happening to the Tet and Phaser weapons, as well as disruptors, sometimes) It seems almost like that one Sci (it's a Sci ability, I think) ability that drops all the shield facings down to 0, but I don't have it, lol.
Anyway, regular blue or purple Tet beams seem to be knocking out shield systems the same way the phasers do. So, I buy Tet ASAP after toon creation, and I'm strafing the TRIBBLE outta people with my beams.
Phaser also doesn't have the same DPS as Tet, I think. Tell me if any of you noticed my 'glitch' at all. Or if it's not a glitch.
"That is truly amazing. That is so amazingly amazing, I'd like to steal it." - Zaphod Beeblebrox
Because one thing is to play for fun, other thing is to waste a lot of time killing a ship when there is no need. I love tetryon sounds and graphics, but as i said, they are not even worthy to use for just fun. I was one of those who coudnt believe that tetryon weapons were so useless, but sadly it is a fact.
Thats the whole problem. DAMAGE to shields in tetryon weapons is ridiculous. And they are supossed to be "good" draning shields. So it doesnt matter how much you boost it. I also tried with the hirogen / apex set and the nukara one. And with flow capacitors maxed as well. Again, a waste.
You probably built the best possible tetryon damage build and yet, you failed to mention one other improvement you obtained with the setup which leads me to think you're more of a tac than a sci captain, but yes, this would maximize things tetryon wise.
I see theres like 20 different types of weaponry now. I'm guessing either Tetryon or Anti-Proton is what to aim for in the higher levels...
At least, from what I've read through this.
Disruptors are FAR SUPERIOR than tetryon weapons. Because they deal damage. Everything that is not able to deal a minimum ammount of damage is useless in STO. Specially if that weapon is designed to drain shields and that is also a lie LOL. So tetryons are useless. No matter what you use to boost em lol. And no. Disruptors are not a "support" type weapon. They deal same damage as any other weapon (in fact almost every weapon in STO deals the same base damage in the description, but that is not true in the case of phasers or tetryons, as i noticed).
In the opposite, disruptors are just like antiproton, plasma, and other weapons. They are just great. And you can boost em with the same performance as any other weapon, with the exception, again of tetryon ones. And maybe phasers a little, but still phasers are by far superior than tetryons lol.
And no. Im tired of using tetryon weapons for the past 3 months. They only drain the faced shield. At least in my case or i didnt notice any real drain on the other faces. And it doesnt matter how maxed you have your flow capacitors skill, as i said i had that maximized as well and nothing changed. And the rate is so stupidly low, that it takes ages to drain any shield of any enemy ship. At least in advanced / elite mode. Curious thing is, i also tried in normal mode, and still, its really dumb how much time it takes to get rid of your enemy's shields. Ridiculous.
I never understood why people talk about the tet proc being useless when shields are down but not how the disruptor proc is mostly useless when shields are up.
Taskforce 47 Falkenwacht (Federation) / Greifenreiter (KDF)
(at) deianirrah
Free Gear and where to get it
I agree... The one thing that consistently gets ignored by the Tetryon-Haters is that, once shields are out of the way, the Tetryon beams have the exact same base damage as any other beam in the game (doesn't matter if it's AP, Dis, Pha, Pol, etc...)... But how are you going to get the shields down?
Same argument applies here with the Tetryons as opposed to the Disruptors... It's only a percent chance to proc with disruptors. (Hypothetically) if you can do 1200 DPS with one Disruptor beam array, and it only has a 2.5% proc chance, then only 30 DPS is hitting the hull... Some have said that the Tetryon proc is cancelled by ST1 and a quick shield regen. but if you're only hitting my hull with 30 DPS, then a quick ET1 will cancel that out as well!
CM
Nah, you dont get it. Once the shields are down, tetryon weapons do NOTHING. ALL THE WEAPONS in the game are supossed to deal the same base damage, we all know that. It is how is intended. The only thing that changes is the proc. But i tell you again, this doesnt apply to tetryon weapons. Tetryon weapons are ridiculous weak against shields, and completely useless against NON shielded ships. For reasons we will never understand. I NEVER pick a weapon for the proc, that is useless to me. I just pick the weapon i like the most and of course, its effective. Disruptors have the same damabe as tetryon, of course since as i said, EVERY weapon in the game has the same base damage (with the exception of antiproton that is a little higher) with the difference, disruptors damage is not broken. And i am not talking about the proc. Im talking about the base damage. Any weapon with a minimum base damage will affect enemy's shields in any way. Is not the case of tetryon weapons.
You can waste 10 minutes trying to kill a ship(way of speaking) with a basic tetryon build, and you will waste 45 seconds using disruptors. Is that simple. And the difference is so high, that there is no point at all about using tetryon weapons.
If someone believes they are doing great with tetryon weapons, i suggest you switch to elite difficulty and see the results lol. And if you think your tetryon weapons are effective, switch to a disruptor build and see the difference. Lol.
Procs on the weapons mean nothing. If a ship cant deal almost the same base damage with an energy type without taking in consideration the procs of the weapon, that weapon is broken. Is that simple. Thats the reason phasers were always considered "nerfed" or broken, and tetryons even worst.
Of course, i never mentioned it, but we are talking about advanced / elite difficulty. There is no point on talking about this if we use normal mode. Since in normal mode, even a stone will destroy a npc ship. :P
I took the AP consoles and beams off my Tac Vesta and threw them on my Odyssey... You'll never believe me, and puke out garbage about needing evidence, but it did worse!
... and I only run elites...
CM
Where do you come off with this absurdity? Did a Tetryon beam touch your aft in a naughty way, or something? Did it bring your underwear shields offline?
Because my Reman in his freebie Aves-class is sporting Refracting Tetryon DHCs and he shreds through everything and everyone with them, and he does so JUST as effectively as he did when he rocked Plasma DHCs. If there's a DPS loss there, it's negligible.
Procs don't land as often as you or a lot of people think, which means all energy weapon types are pretty damn useful because they all deal damage, so no weapon type sucks or rocks. When my KDF ships land Disruptor procs I don't even notice it, and if I don't notice them, the effect they have has to be minor.
You're also comparing Elite Fleet Disruptors to rep Tetryons or just plain Tetryons, and there is a definite damage difference in Elite Fleet weapons over Rep or non-rep weapons, so your argument is kinda moot.
When I fight the first group in Azure nebula I can get 30k to 40k burst damage killing the entire group in my cruiser with Tetryon. I get under 15kdps burst with disputer.
I just feel the need to repeat this statement. Procs aren't all that important for mainstream difficulty, endgame content. Yes, some weapon types synergize with certain builds, but it's really not a critical element of your build unless you're min/maxing.
Weapons literally only proc 25 times out of 1000 shots.
I have a friend in a R'morr-type temporal science ship who just waltzes around borg cubes and melts everything with tetryon (single!) cannons and turrets, so tetryon is clearly not inferior to any other weapon type.
I'd drop the literally part...well...I guess the whole statement, to be honest.
You could have 1000 procs or 1000 no procs with 1000 shots. It's not a 2.5 times out of 100 (25 times out of 1000) sort of thing. It's a 2.5% per cycle per weapon. Could happen all the time or could never happen...it depends on how the RNG Gods favor you.
With 8 weapons of the same type, you're looking at ~18.3% probability that at least one of the weapons will drop out that 2.5% proc. With it being per cycle, you're looking at that ~18.3% being every 5+ seconds for beams and every 3+ seconds for cannons.
In a 15s period (where the 5s and 3s RoFs meet), you're looking at...
45.5% probability of at least one proc with the 8 same energy beams.
63.7% probability of at least one proc with the 8 same energy cannons.
CRF, by increasing the actual RoF would slightly increase the probability by adding a cycle. FAW simply adds another shot, so the cycle duration remains the same. As for how procs work with FAW/CSV...you know, I just don't know. No idea off hand if the proc would actually apply to the multiple targets or each target would get its own proc roll for the cycle. Hrmm, curious to know if anybody knows the answer for that, mind you...
Not many folks tend to run 8x, though - eh? Tend to work in that KCB, in a boat with only 7 or 6 weapons, so down to 6 or 5...might have a torp/mines mixed in, etc, etc, etc. So yeah, it's pretty much spreadsheet warrior stuff - folks would have to look at their particular builds and work through their particular math...
...but even that 63.7% guy might see 40 procs or 0 procs during that 15s period - because it's still a chance per cycle, not a guarantee that out of so many cycles that it will happen. RNG favors some and not others...you can try to minimize your dependence on it or you can try to maximize it while crossing your fingers.
Ooooh. Right, right. That makes sense. I retract my previous statement.... about the chance of procs.
I stand by my "procs are irrelevant unless you're min/maxing" comment though.
I eventually moved on to other weapon types, such as Phaser and Anti-Proton, but never forgot my first love of Tet's. After picking up some fleet consoles, I got into my old MVAE after a long absence and took it out for a spin. I was sorely disappointed in it's performance. Even with a build well thought out to max out the Flow Capacitors and damage, I could kill NPC's twice as fast with almost any other weapon type than with Tetryon's. (I only PvE, so PvP concerns and strategies' don't affect me). Tetryons just didn't cut it anymore.
So, my advice to anyone when it comes to Tetryon weapons: They are great when you are first starting out. You can get really good Tetryon weapons for free simply by replaying "The New Link" and it's not difficult to save your pennies for the consoles and deflector that will assist you in this build. However, once you reach end-game, you will do better to move on to other weapon types. Tetryons just don't do the damage that other weapons do. Sad, but true.