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The new Rep System

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  • gameversemangameverseman Member Posts: 1,110 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    heegoo419 wrote: »
    I guess my grief with this entire Reputation Trait Revamp is the fact that Cryptic is not considering (or maybe they are and don't care) the amount of time/effort it took the players who actually did level up all their Rep (or even a couple of them) on their toons. I have done it personally on 5 of my 9 max leveled toons and am working on the other currently. I can only imagine how someone who has 20+ toons feels about this.

    On the other hand I do somewhat understand WHY they are doing this. The DPS numbers in this game have gotten crazy out of hand. And IMHO I think that because of these super high DPS numbers it is making the game too easy and less fun. I have actually gotten away from some of my high DPS builds on my toons and been trying out other builds just because it's keeping me a little more interested in playing the game.

    Unfortunately until all this goes live and we've all had a little time to adjust to this new system it'll be hard to tell what this outcome is going to be good or bad.





    This honestly is not uncommon. Frankly if I were Cryptic I wouldn't want to reply directly to this either in the forums due to possible rage/flame and possibly making the situation worse.
    They HAVE to address it! It's THEIR problem! They wrongly nerfed stuff and that's that!
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  • johankreigjohankreig Member Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    gona throw my own POV here, I am a fairly new player, I dont have time to play a huge ammount and therefore have very little done on the reps on my characters, only 1 is t5, for me any many other new or newish players this is going to level the playing field, yes older players are going to loose some of there abilities but they have had the use of these abilities for x years, new players who are coming into it fresh will not have the boosts or beniefits that come with them, and therefore will not be on a level playing field, the revamp allows ALL players to access the rep systems quickly and easily and a low cost, the reduction in available abilities meens that a new player who has not got access to all the reps wont be as unbalanced against an old player as they would be now, it makes the game more fair for ALL not just those who have been here from the begining.

    ok now you may insult, flame, abuse, throw rocks what ever, and i know people on here will do so because they dont like hearing reality.
    Jorhana Kreig: KDF, Tal'is: Romulan Fed, Shona'a: Romulan KDF, Johan Paul Kreig: Fed
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    johankreig wrote: »
    gona throw my own POV here, I am a fairly new player, I dont have time to play a huge ammount and therefore have very little done on the reps on my characters, only 1 is t5, for me any many other new or newish players this is going to level the playing field, yes older players are going to loose some of there abilities but they have had the use of these abilities for x years, new players who are coming into it fresh will not have the boosts or beniefits that come with them, and therefore will not be on a level playing field, the revamp allows ALL players to access the rep systems quickly and easily and a low cost, the reduction in available abilities meens that a new player who has not got access to all the reps wont be as unbalanced against an old player as they would be now, it makes the game more fair for ALL not just those who have been here from the begining.

    ok now you may insult, flame, abuse, throw rocks what ever, and i know people on here will do so because they dont like hearing reality.

    And when are they going to 'even the playing field' for new fleets vs old fleets? Or those who have all the neat little toys they picked up from lockboxes/doffpacks/exchange when they were much easier to acquire at a good price? Or the actual gear from the reputations?

    All those contribute far more to the gap between new player and vet player. Yet even all those combined have less of an impact on the gap than game system knowledge.

    A good build with white gear and no rep traits will outperform a bad build with all the toys and rep traits combined. And the game still does absolutely nothing to help teach players how to create a good build.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    And the game still does absolutely nothing to help teach players how to create a good build.
    if anything, it currently does the exact opposite

    *cough*default ship layouts*cough*

    *cough*first contact/day of honor/republic day*cough*
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

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  • architect13architect13 Member Posts: 1,076 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    johankreig wrote: »
    gona throw my own POV here, I am a fairly new player, I dont have time to play a huge ammount and therefore have very little done on the reps on my characters, only 1 is t5, for me any many other new or newish players this is going to level the playing field, yes older players are going to loose some of there abilities but they have had the use of these abilities for x years, new players who are coming into it fresh will not have the boosts or beniefits that come with them, and therefore will not be on a level playing field, the revamp allows ALL players to access the rep systems quickly and easily and a low cost, the reduction in available abilities meens that a new player who has not got access to all the reps wont be as unbalanced against an old player as they would be now, it makes the game more fair for ALL not just those who have been here from the begining.

    ok now you may insult, flame, abuse, throw rocks what ever, and i know people on here will do so because they dont like hearing reality.

    So you do not have time to play that much . . . fine, not a problem. I also do not see a problem in a newish player not being as good as a vet with reps. I have a freshly minted level 50 Tactical Krommie, he is not as strong as other level 50s, not a problem. If they would have implemented the new rep system with 8 passives there would have been much less complaining.
    Have you tried the new forum on your phone?
  • mastigatormastigator Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Anyone know if you if you'll still need the maco/honor guard ground set in order to get the adapted version?
    "They're crying, Jim! I don't know how it happened, but it's good to see." - Dr Leonard McCoy
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    And the game still does absolutely nothing to help teach players how to create a good build.

    What MMO actually teaches players to make a good build?

    Anyways, i'd like to know; if the Mk X and XI gear from the old Reps are going away, then will the Mk XII stuff still stay in the upper Tiers or will they get spread around? For example, all Nukara Mk XII can only be found in T4 (iirc), but Dyson deflector is at T2, Engines at T3, etc.

    So, will Nukara, MACO, etc. get tiered as well?
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    What MMO actually teaches players to make a good build?

    Anyways, i'd like to know; if the Mk X and XI gear from the old Reps are going away, then will the Mk XII stuff still stay in the upper Tiers or will they get spread around? For example, all Nukara Mk XII can only be found in T4 (iirc), but Dyson deflector is at T2, Engines at T3, etc.

    So, will Nukara, MACO, etc. get tiered as well?

    Most of them do not give a player anywhere near the level of build freedom STO does and do not need to. But even beyond that most design the low level encounters in a way that teach you how you deal with the various mechanics you will run into later on.

    Does STO ever mention during gameplay anything about cleanses? I don't mean a pop up dialog box. I mean your ship getting hit with an engine disable and it has you use an engine battery.

    Does STO ever in any way tell you in game about shield resistance and how to increase it? Or the value of tactical team for distribution?

    Even beyond that. Most games only allow a player to equip two weapons, in STO you can have up to 8 on a ship. Does STO bother to mention putting a dual beam bank, a single cannon, a torpedo and a standard beam array up front with a torpedoes and two beam arrays aft might be a bad idea? Nope, it is standard for STO ships.

    Everything in the game should be viewed as an opportunity to teach the player more about the game both mechanically and story. Default ship layouts should make sense. Bridge officers should be generated with a resonable ability set, not random.

    I could go on for days about this subject. It is, IMHO, always been STO's biggest problem.

    To answer your question tho they have stated that they will be spread out just like Dyson equipment was amongst the tiers.
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    bareel wrote: »
    Most of them do not give a player anywhere near the level of build freedom STO does and do not need to. But even beyond that most design the low level encounters in a way that teach you how you deal with the various mechanics you will run into later on.

    Does STO ever mention during gameplay anything about cleanses? I don't mean a pop up dialog box. I mean your ship getting hit with an engine disable and it has you use an engine battery.

    Does STO ever in any way tell you in game about shield resistance and how to increase it? Or the value of tactical team for distribution?

    Even beyond that. Most games only allow a player to equip two weapons, in STO you can have up to 8 on a ship. Does STO bother to mention putting a dual beam bank, a single cannon, a torpedo and a standard beam array up front with a torpedoes and two beam arrays aft might be a bad idea? Nope, it is standard for STO ships.

    Everything in the game should be viewed as an opportunity to teach the player more about the game both mechanically and story. Default ship layouts should make sense. Bridge officers should be generated with a resonable ability set, not random.

    I could go on for days about this subject. It is, IMHO, always been STO's biggest problem.

    To answer your question tho they have stated that they will be spread out just like Dyson equipment was amongst the tiers.

    Well ... from that point of view I guess it makes sense. Heck, back when I played EQ, someone told me that a character's AC value from armor was null when attacked from the rear. The game didn't tell me that so how was that true?

    Anyways, as long as the old Rep gear gets Tiered then I'm okay with that.
  • bareelbareel Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Well ... from that point of view I guess it makes sense. Heck, back when I played EQ, someone told me that a character's AC value from armor was null when attacked from the rear. The game didn't tell me that so how was that true?

    Anyways, as long as the old Rep gear gets Tiered then I'm okay with that.

    Now EQ I will grant you was probably a little worse than STO when it came to that. I still remember the dexterity and proc debate that raged for years or the hell levels bug.

    Then again EQ never got very big when compared to that 'other' game that basically created the MMO market size paving the way for the current crop of 'em.
  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Mr. Hamilton, I found a picture of your new desk. It's right here.
    To that end, we’re changing how powers are selected – you can now change your selection of passive Reputation Traits for free, any time you’re out of combat.

    Barring the whole, "Subject to change" disclaimer, this is a straight up lie.

    You can't change rep traits in the middle of a mission, even when you aren't under the effects of red alert. You know, the only possible time you might want to be able to change and modify your traits to fit a particular situation. Which completely invalidates a great big portion of your sales pitch to the STO playerbase in regards to the reputation trait system.

    And you also can't change your traits when you're at your own starbase or your fleet holdings.

    You know, places that aren't even missions. Among the safest, non-combaty places you can be in the game.

    So, under the bus you go.
    ExtxpTp.jpg
  • causalityeffectcausalityeffect Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I understand why this change was made but I do not agree with how it has been done.

    You want to stop power creep - Uh ok, so you nuked the entire rep system so that players have to hot swap their traits. You killed power creep by making the game more annoying and weakened future rep grinds as well. Well Done.

    If you were worried about power creep the better thing to have done was to make the Rep powers still passive but more niche.

    Thus players can have the passive which makes Borg adaption take longer but thats ALL it does. Only works against the Borg and thus it only is a power creep in the sense it makes fighting a specific enemy easier.

    Other niche passives that reduce or remove the effect of certain gimmick abilities the NPCs can use.
    I.E Webs from the Tholians, Engine disables from the Undine, Shield Draining from the Borg

    By doing this you wont need to put insanely stupid stats on weapons like X chance to do damage to Borg, Voth, Tholians etc.
    Instead the passive can be used to add those gimmick procs.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    So, now people are realizing the whole reputation change thing doesn't cook up to what he was PR about. Definitely does not stop power creep, punishes veteran players for grinding the reputation system for 5% passive abilities and limited trait switching. It's only good for setting a cap. No future growth from 4/4/4

    Quite impressive. Excellent work Cryptic.
  • pumpkinjawpumpkinjaw Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Here's what it has done for me

    Before rep nerf - only died max of 3 times in a mission.......this was with little concentration on anything except shooting the bad guys.


    After rep nerf - die repeatedy, rarely kill anything and am constantly hitting hull/shield heals and anything else I think might help. The Undine Space combat is ridiculous. With the rep nerf and excessive Undine bubble animation, can barely play it.


    Using the same ship. Nothing has changed except the rep passives or lack of. ( I do not have the latest and greatest ship. Saving up to get Avenger but why bother when the rep nerf has caused this much damage. I feel like I am playing with one of the very first ships I got on this game. I've been playing for about 6 months and this just makes me want to go back to GWII)


    Since the vets seem to be the ones complaining about how easy it is to run thru all the PVE stuff, give them their own missions that F2P can't access. Make it as hard as they want it and leave the regular stuff to the newer players!! (And to think I started playing this to relax and have fun. This IS NOT fun!!)
  • rocmistrocmist Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    pumpkinjaw wrote: »
    Here's what it has done for me

    Before rep nerf - only died max of 3 times in a mission.......this was with little concentration on anything except shooting the bad guys.


    After rep nerf - die repeatedy, rarely kill anything and am constantly hitting hull/shield heals and anything else I think might help. The Undine Space combat is ridiculous. With the rep nerf and excessive Undine bubble animation, can barely play it.

    ...

    Just interested as I have a number of characters (including escorts builds) and never die ... get really low in health, but manage to over come it.
    Are you playing it on Elite difficulty?

    (I am thinking that elite no longer has the "gear" but normal is fine)
  • tamerethtamereth Member Posts: 40 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I like the change. Seems like a nice way to limit the power creep, I can't say I feel overly under powered compared to before, as long as the different rep traits remain balanced, so that none become auto includes I'm happy.
    I just wish the actives were also split between ground and space, once a few more rep systems come out pretty much everyone will just run the 4 space actives.
  • wraith2727wraith2727 Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I also like new system. Its more friendlyer since it doesent force you to hawe all reputation maxed wich is especialy good for new players. Now we can easily switch traits and experiment wich are best for our ships. Also reputation projects are no more so costly and basicly we just need finish one mision to collect marks for daily project and we also get boxes with nice equipment wich helping us to gear up character faster. :)
  • dragnridrdragnridr Member Posts: 671 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    wraith2727 wrote: »
    I also like new system. Its more friendlyer since it doesent force you to hawe all reputation maxed wich is especialy good for new players. Now we can easily switch traits and experiment wich are best for our ships. Also reputation projects are no more so costly and basicly we just need finish one mision to collect marks for daily project and we also get boxes with nice equipment wich helping us to gear up character faster. :)
    tamereth wrote: »
    I like the change. Seems like a nice way to limit the power creep, I can't say I feel overly under powered compared to before, as long as the different rep traits remain balanced, so that none become auto includes I'm happy.
    I just wish the actives were also split between ground and space, once a few more rep systems come out pretty much everyone will just run the 4 space actives.


    Okay, now why don't you guys try running your captains with ALL the rep abilities that you earned, then try it with the 4/4/4 BS that was implemented....sorry...FORCED down our throat. You'll soon realize that the rep nerf nuke that was done was an UP-Yours to the veterans that EARNED all those reps so they can be ACTIVE and IN USE AT ALL TIMES.
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  • maelwy5maelwy5 Member Posts: 593 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    dragnridr wrote: »
    Okay, now why don't you guys try running your captains with ALL the rep abilities that you earned, then try it with the 4/4/4 BS that was implemented....sorry...FORCED down our throat. You'll soon realize that the rep nerf nuke that was done was an UP-Yours to the veterans that EARNED all those reps so they can be ACTIVE and IN USE AT ALL TIMES.

    Personally, I don't think it goes far enough :D

    The Captain Species traits - not just the reputation ones - are now hot-swappable outside of missions.

    Even allowing for the fact that you can only slot 12 reputation traits now (4 space, 4 ground, 4 active) you can currently stack some DOWNRIGHT CRAZY performance numbers by just swapping between an all-ground-trait and all-space-trait build as the situation requires.

    :P
    [ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
  • neppakyoneppakyo Member Posts: 245 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    People have problems staying aliive after the new rep? oO

    I find its a lot easier now, did a Crystaline Enity Elite and never went down past 80% hull, barely had to pay attention, only to get out of the way when it did its absorb thing.

    Having both aux traits is a bit op, with only 3 in hull plating, nothing else in resist skills, and no consoles My resists sit at 27% with aux at 97. If I pump aux to 130, I get a bit over 30% resists, no consoles!

    By keeping my power as follows below, using a2d+epte+epts and appropriate doffs, all my power is over 75, including the plasmonic leech console assisting.

    Weapons: 125/95
    Shields: 50/15
    Engines: 49/15
    Auxillary: 97/75

    Switch out a critd trait for hull repairing nanites, add a critd universal, I can pump hull regen on my escort to 238% out of combat regen.

    New rep nerf stop power creep? Not at all. New rep nerf stop future power creep? probably.

    To curb power creep more, you need to make all romulan bridge officers have a stacking penalty, as now you can have 5 Superior Operatives stack without penalty. With spire consoles some roms can get well over 35% crith, and can get near or pass 200% critd. There is a major source of your power creep.

    Also the spire consoles need a stacking penalty too for the crith/d, like the penalty for energy dmg boost.
    Quote about STO on consoles: "Not quite as bad as No man's sky, but a close second."
  • vivenneanthonyvivenneanthony Member Posts: 1,278 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    dragnridr wrote: »
    Okay, now why don't you guys try running your captains with ALL the rep abilities that you earned, then try it with the 4/4/4 BS that was implemented....sorry...FORCED down our throat. You'll soon realize that the rep nerf nuke that was done was an UP-Yours to the veterans that EARNED all those reps so they can be ACTIVE and IN USE AT ALL TIMES.

    I agree. The reputation system change was a stick it up your shaft stance, from Cryptic especially towards veteran players.
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I think 4/4/4 was a bit low, but I agree with what they're trying to do on general principles.

    I'll like it better when they extend loadouts to the traits.

    The rest of the Reputation system revamp feels a lot easier to deal with than before. Now they all flow as well as the Dyson rep.

    My biggest issue now is I've pretty much filled up all of the extra inventory space they gave me.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
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  • futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    I do agree that 4/4/4 is a bit low. In fact they've already said that they'll probably change it to 4/4/4/4 (separate ground and space actives) soon. It would surprise me if the next fleet holding doesn't allow 5th slot purchases. But while 5/5/5/5 might be in the cards someday, I think they're going to hold it at that.
  • causalityeffectcausalityeffect Member Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Frankly, the rep system powers need to be redone to reflect this new system.

    Instead of having 2 powers per tier and then the final power at the last for each rep.
    How about just having 1 power per tier that combines both of the previous powers into a single passive ?

    That literally cuts the trait spam in half and doubles the effectiveness of the traits to reflect how extremely limited they are to slot.

    Alternatively, you could remove the passives and put them on the Tier 5 power. Thus reaching Tier 5 grants a power and a bunch of passives and they have their own tray.

    The passives for the lower Rep tiers could be changed to non-combat related bonuses that are always on. Discounts from stores, better prices for selling to NPC merchants, access to better duty officer missions.

    Here is a wild idea: Reaching higher levels of Rep allows players access to unique ships, hulls and armor.
    Every tier in a faction rep = the tier of ships the players can access in that faction
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • muhadeebmuhadeeb Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    Been watching since season 9 went live and as we know now as we thought its an epic FAIL. if you don't think so go to esd and sit there or the qs, participation is way way down. as feared vets are leaving in droves.no need to post to deny these things just go look for yourself. I love this game but sorry to say the last nail has been cast, not much time left to fix it hawk, but as we all know your silence speaks volumes. close your wallets people make hawk listen or maybe his boss might notice and listen to the lack of money[paychecks] they aren't getting we have a voice and its loud and green close up the wallets make them listen before our game slowly dies in front of us.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited May 2014
    reyan01 wrote: »
    I just want to know what it is that gives characters that pink glowing eyes effect?
    psionic command aura
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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