then we still have 16 space passives and 16 ground passives over all and not just 8. as it is a total of 32 passive powers that you can chose from now.
AdjudictorHawk never specified that the existing "choose 1 of 2 space powers" function was being modified. I'm under the assumption that your choice would still be there, and from the choice you selected, you can choose from that.
Dyson: 2 (1 from tier 2, 1 from Tier 4)
Romulan: 2
Nukara: 2
Omega: 2
2+2+2+2=8.
Same goes for the ground rep.
Active traits, since there is no option, is still 2 ground and 2 space.
Undine rep will add more.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
AdjudictorHawk never specified that the existing "choose 1 of 2 space powers" function was being modified. I'm under the assumption that your choice would still be there, and from the choice you selected, you can choose from that.
Dyson: 2 (1 from tier 2, 1 from Tier 4)
Romulan: 2
Nukara: 2
Omega: 2
2+2+2+2=8.
You can choose 4 passives per rep. So, yeah, 50% nerf.
You can choose 4 passives per rep. So, yeah, 50% nerf.
Again, each passive is being boosted. Most of the passives don't specify the exact percentage benefit they are receiving, but the ones that do indicate a doubling in their power (+10% is now +20% CrtD, 2.5%SP is now 5.0%SP, etc). This way, it's as if you are receiving 2 of the same power.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
well i can tel you as it is on tribble that you can now also choose two tier 1 powers, so it is 16 space and 16 ground.
end of line... and when you still say its only 8 powers for space. i will stop talking as when you don't even play it on tribble and keep up the its not a nerf flag.. it has no sense talking here. go on tribble and take a look at the trait windw itself it has listeed all the traits and you can chose 4 out of a friggin huge list. on tribble its 20 space powers and 20 ground powers for only 4 slots each.. think about that. and as i said in my post before, i tested my ship in all space trait configs i had time for. and i just wasnt possible to get it to the same exact point either i have less shields or less hull, all hull boosts are more than before aye. but i cannot slot the shield the hull and the weapon passive like i have now so either i go just on hull just on shield or just on DPS.... i cant mix hul and shield the same way as before ( i can slot some of those powers aye. but they are less effective without the other hull and shield powers )
so now i have all hull and shield and some of the weapons powesr slotted and on tribble same ship same build same skills... i have 2 shield 2 hull powers slotted on tribble and now having less hull, less shield and no weapon bonus.... how does that make up?? the bonus is not equal to the loss in powers. test it out yourself. when going for hull and shields you simply cannot get the same as before
then we still have 16 space passives and 16 ground passives over all and not just 8. as it is a total of 32 passive powers that you can chose from now.
You forgot about the new undine rep coming with season 9. That means we will have a total of 20 ground and 20 space traits to chose from but can only take a max of 4 ground and 4 space, leaving us with 16 powers each not taken for a total of 32 unused powers, plus 1 activateabale power from tier 5 reps because we can only take 4 and will have 5 to choose from.
So that means out of a total of 45 powers from all reps, we can only take a max of 9 at any given time. Sure we can switch around what powers we want any time we want, but it still seems too limited.
You forgot about the new undine rep coming with season 9. That means we will have a total of 20 ground and 20 space traits to chose from but can only take a max of 4 ground and 4 space, leaving us with 16 powers each not taken for a total of 32 unused powers, plus 1 activateabale power from tier 5 reps because we can only take 4 and will have 5 to choose from.
didnt forgot , just didnt mention it in that post as stardestroyer was only counting the holodeck powers.
in previous posts i did mention the undine rep already summing it up to 20 passive space, 20 passive ground and 5 active powers. and only 4 slots each to slot them
its 12 powers not 9 on tribble 4 ground, 4 space, 4 active
well i can tel you as it is on tribble that you can now also choose two tier 1 powers, so it is 16 space and 16 ground.
end of line... and when you still say its only 8 powers for space. i will stop talking as when you don't even play it on tribble and keep up the its not a nerf flag.. it has no sense talking here. go on tribble and take a look at the trait windw itself it has listeed all the traits and you can chose 4 out of a friggin huge list. on tribble its 20 space powers and 20 ground powers for only 4 slots each.. think about that. and as i said in my post before, i tested my ship in all space trait configs i had time for. and i just wasnt possible to get it to the same exact point either i have less shields or less hull, all hull boosts are more than before aye. but i cannot slot the shield the hull and the weapon passive like i have now so either i go just on hull just on shield or just on DPS.... i cant mix hul and shield the same way as before ( i can slot some of those powers aye. but they are less effective without the other hull and shield powers )
so now i have all hull and shield and some of the weapons powesr slotted and on tribble same ship same build same skills... i have 2 shield 2 hull powers slotted have less hull less shield and no weapon bonus.... how does that make up??
Yes, it does seem as if we got nerfed heavily. I'm now going to address space only at this point. If you look closely, a lot of these powers have been improved to help you.
For offensive ships, you can now enjoy options from:
+10% CritD -->> +20% CritD (Significant! Especially for vapers)
0-15 Dmg resist debuff -->>0-20.
2.5% SP -->> 5% SP (Also significant for escorts)
Acc, damage bonus now tied to aux power (cloakers again)
3% CrtH -->> 5% CrtH Placate -->> Weapons offline (so really, is this a passive? I don't really count it anymore)
Weapons skill -->> Dmg output, increased
No change to Omega Grav Amplifier, meaning it is still effective
The way I see it, if you equipped any 4 of these for an offensive ship, I would go with the CrtH bonus, increased dmg output, 5% SP and +20% CrtD. This is insane for a vaper.
For defensive ships such as team healers, I don't even need to post it here. It's obvious that the passives that worked before will do extremely well now, and a ship can now shrug off BFAW+DEM attacks using the inreased dmg resistance passives.
As for active powers, that does puzzle me. Cryptic may be planning something new on that horizon with the Undine rep system, or possibly purchaseable active powers (similar to the Genetic Resequencers or fleet stores).
Is this a nerf? No. It's an evolution of a previous idea that wasn't planned out very well. This change will restore the difference between a vaper and a healer/tank.
It reduces power creep by once again segregating the glass cannon from the durable team healer.
It improves upon previous powers, allowing diversity and potency of rep traits.
By extension that also benefits a team, as they can now mix-n'-match.
You can still be a vaper, and with a greater one-shot punch than ever.
Keep in mind that this change is meant to recover from power creep. So if you are currently reaping the benefits of being a godship (actually, from what it sounds like, you seem unhappy that you+team take a long time to kill a ship instead), that will be rectified with this patch to be more in line with what we experienced a year or so ago.
Again, not a nerf. An evolution to bring the system more in line with balance and reducing power creep.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Again, each passive is being boosted. Most of the passives don't specify the exact percentage benefit they are receiving, but the ones that do indicate a doubling in their power (+10% is now +20% CrtD, 2.5%SP is now 5.0%SP, etc). This way, it's as if you are receiving 2 of the same power.
Specifically what you are referring to, under 'Systems - Reputation Traits' in the long list:
Lethality and Precision:
Critical Chance reduced from 5% to 4%.
Deadly Aim and Advanced Targeting Systems:
Critical Severity reduced from 20% to 16%.
As well as other examples:
Omega Weapon Training
Reduced Energy Weapon bonus damage from 10% to 5%
Kinetic bonus damage now only affects Projectiles, magnitude unchanged at 10%
So yeah. They buffed the rep traits to compensate for the lack of trait slots, but then turned around and nerfed some of them due to the traits being OP.
Specifically what you are referring to, under 'Systems - Reputation Traits' in the long list:
As well as other examples:
So yeah. They buffed the rep traits to compensate for the lack of trait slots, but then turned around and nerfed some of them due to the traits being OP.
...Wow.
All I can say is, that Undine rep had better restore the balance. Otherwise, the problem we have now is only going to get worse - there will be little difference between an escort and a cruiser, aside from the console slots and turn rates. Oh wait, Gal-X.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
ah now you start to realize and the "this does not change this" you just pointed to DPS enhancing powers ..
and where you can vaporise everything and greater one punch power..
again I DONT WANT THAT
i want my HULL and SHIELDS!!!!! i am not playing DPS online
every example you state is for enhanced DPS or shooting power ,.. the hull and shield powers got nerfed until recognition ..
and you still say yeah but the DPS got enhanced..
i dont care about the damned weapons now making more crits i dont have them slotted.
i talk about the hull boosting powers and the shield boosts and those got nerfed. and again nerfed.
and i cannot get the same shield hull config as i have now. and that is bugging me. as i either have to run only hull boositng that or only shields boosting that.
but as you dont know the 3rd april nerfed the powers i assume you dont play on tribble?
so why do you argue with something you havent played even yet?
the Problem of power creep persists you can now make even more damage !!!! just your hull and shield will be fubar. meaning if you pvp, you are blowing up even more faster as they make more dps and you have eitehr less hull or less sheilds
Specifically what you are referring to, under 'Systems - Reputation Traits' in the long list:
As well as other examples:
So yeah. They buffed the rep traits to compensate for the lack of trait slots, but then turned around and nerfed some of them due to the traits being OP.
Well, so much for that lame 'nickle & dime' story then. It would behoove Cryptic to be less disingenuous about all of this. First you nerf us for 50%. Then you say it's not a nerf, because you're buffing the powers. And then... you look at those powers and decide they're overpowered in their buffed state, and nerf em again.
ah now you start to realize and the "this de not change this" yu just pinted to DPS enhancing powers .. and where you can vaporise everything and greater one punch power.. again I DONT WANT THAT i want m HULL and SHIELDS!!!!! i am not playing DPS online. every example you state is for enhanced DPS or shooting power ,.. the hull and shield powers gt nerfed until recognition .. and you still say yeah but the DPS got enhanced.. i dont care about the damned weapons now making more crits i dont have them slotted.
i talk about the hull boosting powers and the shield boosts and those got nerfed. and again nerfed.
Again, I referenced that simply because yesterday's theme of the day was vapers. The new changes will make those vapers easier to kill, since they would sacrifice the defensive passives in order to boost their vape shots. I hope this makes sense to you.
As for the defensive powers, in tandem with the removal of XTeam shared cooldowns, I don't view this as a significant problem. Cruisers will still get defensive benefits, albeit not as great as before (2/3 extra bonus with each power compared to existing?). Escorts will get the protection they need; and even if they suffer, that is what team healers are for. In every way, this benefits team healers as well.
Perhaps it is a nerf, but not "doom". Just a change.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
aye those will most probably go all for the dps powers and thus going nuts with one shot kills. and hence that they dont have any hull powers slotted then would be easier to kill i get that argument..
in a pvp world.
in pve only where i love to have a team of 3 afkers and then have to survive mirror invasion with 1 other playing player i love my ship and having all its passive armour, hull and shield powers.
but this is not possible now (i tested it today after the new patch) it was possible before the 3rd april patch but now its not the same. the ship is basically over all weaker than before. no matter how i slot the passives.
aye those will most probably go all for the dps powers and thus going nuts with one shot kills. and hence that they dont have any hull powers slotted then would be easier to kill i get that argument..
in a pvp world.
That's the world I deal in. Not the easy-as-pie PvE world, where ships like the Galaxy are actually non-detrimental to a team when built correctly.
in pve only where i love to have a team of 3 afkers and then have to survive mirror invasion with 1 other playing player i love my ship and having all its passive armour, hull and shield powers.
Somehow your issue may deal with AFK Leechers and not the actual game mechanics themselves. You can't blame one component for being at fault where the real cause is a completely different, defective component.
but this is not possible now (i tested it today after the new patch) it was paossible befre the 3rd april patch but now its not the same. the ship is basically over all weaker than before. no matter how i slot the passives.
Perhaps it is time to adapt? That's what an MMO is, in definition, and preached by the CS department. A lot of Science captains in science ships had to adapt with last month's various patches. You're not the only one.
I'm guessing you're trying to sound smart-alecky with that comment. Really, it doesn't change my stance one bit.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
in pve only where i love to have a team of 3 afkers and then have to survive mirror invasion with 1 other playing player i love my ship and having all its passive armour, hull and shield powers.
Actually happened to me yesterday. Only 1 other player, besides me, was left in Mirror Elite. And we still finished it properly, LOL (quite contrary to my expectation).
no my problem are not the AFKers / leechers i am proud to survive mirror alone. without blowing up. thats exactely my point.. that wont be possible that way after the changes.
well the easy as pie PvE world is also a part of this game .. but i dont know anything about that, as i never played PvP... oh wait i have and still do, just not in a fed boat. on PvP side i will not complain on any changes here. as most are now better. true. for DPS it is and for crits.
but i play mainly PvE. you know, the way this game was intended,...and you are a prime example of one of those "i ignore everything not PvP related and then scream nerf it when something comes that actually boosts something." players, the last time smething did change for PvP i think it was the elachi subspace console .. oh dear what PvP Shatstorm was that..... i guess you could not just adapt couldnt you? well strange but you are saying we have to adapt.. good advice from a PvPer then.. really.. sounds reasonable
no i didn't want to sound smart. i just hoped that you could also understand the view of PvEer..you did not.
instead you started stating how cool you are by telling me that i "tried to sound smart" well thank you i now know i am a blunt dumb PvE player that has apparently nothing to search in this game and well as this is clearly a full PvP multiplayer game so all your argument have to be true anyways.
but with your answer you simply put yourself out of league for me.. me the poor tribble PvE player that has to argue with the pro PvP player that hasnt even tested any of those traits self on tribble.. i guess i go back to my easy as pie gameplay and hope for the next lockbox will again bring something as console where the PvPers scream nerf it after just 2 weeks.
like they always do.
have a good day, sir / miss
i am done with you, well obviously there will be the random i am wrong in all matters and of dear that did hurt you /ironic post of you, where you state your last word also to prove again that all of us are terribly wrong, and you are the only one who is right. and this is not a nerf and so on and so on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m34GUn0QqA
Time to take the kiddies and wean them from suckling on momma's teats.
The changes HAD to be done as a start in reigning in the rampant Power Creep. This is both a PVE & PVP issue. The Power Creep is so vast that it has trivialized "elite" content. It has trivialized stuff that should get a group of players to do. With new Reputation trees & tiers over the years, it meant players getting more and more power and benefits with nothing to hold them back.
Really, how ridiculous would the average build be with the current system and with Cryptic adding the Undine Rep? And future Reps? How stupid is it all going to look with all those Passive & Active Rep abilities from Omega, Romulan, Nukara, Dyson, the upcoming Undine? And new stuff after the Undine Rep given more time? Without the upcoming Undine Rep, you currently have 4 Rep Trees, and fully developed, you have TWENTY g*ddamn Rep abilities at any given time. When Undine hits, that bumps up to TWENTY-FIVE. What about future Rep trees? Just keep adding 5...
Jesus H. Christ, guys, can you NOT see how wrong that looks?
With unbridled access to Rep traits & abilities, players can just keep stockpiling more and more and more ridiculous boosts. Each new Rep with the current system would increase power that much more.
And the game content has never been able to deal with it when there were even fewer Reps, much less with what we have now and what will be possible in the future.
WITH the changes, it means Cryptic can keep making new Reputation Trees, new abilities. Yet WITH the changes, it means players can access the different things but they must *choose* which ones on a far more limited basis. This is far better than simply having almost everything on at one time. WITH the changes, the players can alter the selected Rep when out of combat, not requiring a token of some sort. It can be done on the fly.
The changes are needed to reign in on the rampant power creep. It's not a PVE or PVP issue. It's BOTH.
If you still don't like it, well... it's still coming, baby. And you need to cut back on the enriched baby formula.
no my problem are not the AFKers / leechers i am proud to survive mirror alone. without blowing up. thats exactely my point.. that wont be possible that way after the changes.
True. But that's mostly because Mirror will be done and gone before Season 9 launches.
Why are you guys still running it? Weren't you as burned out by it as me? I just stopped doing it this weekend. Was tired of it.
i said it in another topic. i am okay with it that they take it away. but they should at least make it one space and one ground slot PER rep. so with the undine rep it would be 5/5/4 and the two reps that will most probably come afterwards it could be 7/7/4. still LESS than now. but it would give the feel that all the powers you unlocked can be used better.
i do understand the point of adding this feature. my point was that 4/4/4 is a bit less when future reps will come and we have over 40 powers to chose from then. it will be hard to make a good call then.
the only thin i wanted was adding one slot per rep. its fairer as it is now. but still you can at least use one power of the now unlocked rep.
no my problem are not the AFKers / leechers i am proud to survive mirror alone. without blowing up. thats exactely my point.. that wont be possible that way after the changes.
well the easy as pie PvE world is also a part of this game .. but i dont know anything about that, as i never played PvP... oh wait i have and still do, just not in a fed boat. on PvP side i will not complain on any changes here. as most are now better. true. for DPS it is and for crits.
but i play mainly PvE. you know, the way this game was intended
Yep, I have no issue with that. PvE is a necessary component of this MMO, since a lot of its players are what drives Cryptic's profits and keeps the game running.
...and you are a prime example of one of those "i ignore everything not PvP related and then scream nerf it when something comes that actually boosts something." players, the last time smething did change for PvP i think it was the elachi subspace console .. oh dear what PvP Shatstorm was that..... i guess you could not just adapt couldnt you? well strange but you are saying we have to adapt.. good advice from a PvPer then.. really.. sounds reasonable
And that is where I draw the line between discussing the topic and slandering someone - especially when you know nothing about them.
I complained a bit about the baseball, but then I adapted. And in fact, I insist that each player continues to do the same thing - adapt. This MMO is ever changing, and if you stay still for too long, new strategies and tactics will make yours outdated.
You really know nothing about me, do you? I've insisted that players adapt to the Galaxy, the D'Deridex, the Scimmy, the this-and-that, foundry, pvp, etc etc etc etc. Over and over. It's all about adapting. And I suppose you really didn't know all of that, did you.
Next time I suggest you do a little research on the people you claim are "prime examples"! LOL!
no i didn't want to sound smart. i just hoped that you could also understand the view of PvEer..you did not.
instead you started stating how cool you are by telling me that i "tried to sound smart" well thank you i now know i am a blunt dumb PvE player that has apparently nothing to search in this game and well as this is clearly a full PvP multiplayer game so all your argument have to be true anyways.
but with your answer you simply put yourself out of league for me.. me the poor tribble PvE player that has to argue with the pro PvP player that hasnt even tested any of those traits self on tribble.. i guess i go back to my easy as pie gameplay and hope for the next lockbox will again bring something as console where the PvPers scream nerf it after just 2 weeks.
like they always do.
have a good day, sir / miss
i am done with you, well obviously there will be the random i am wrong in all matters and of dear that did hurt you /ironic post of you, where you state your last word also to prove again that all of us are terribly wrong, and you are the only one who is right. and this is not a nerf and so on and so on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m34GUn0QqA
The "smart" comment was made to your copy-pasting of my words back at me, which does seem smart alecky. It has nothing to do with your actual intelligence (something which I cannot say is sub-par - you do seem quite intelligent). It's how you said your words - or rather, how you threw mine back at me - which was smart-alecky.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
well for the wording.
im not a native english speaker, and i am a bit angry at the rep. so thats why i may sound weird or could have worded some phrases otherwise.
still also some of your comments sounded pickering or say "attacking" ( in lack of a less stronger word for it)
your last comment just made me upset as it stated the " you play only PvP, that's the world you live in"
i respect that. but somehow i tend to think that there is zero tollerance for the PvEers hit by this.
i would vote for a solution where the power creep in PvP is nerfed and still PvEers can use some of their now precious powers where some did spend hours on hours to get them.
i know PvE and PvP are totally different worlds. and in a game where both have to handle the very same mechanics it wont be possible to actually make both sides.... pleased with it.
my first argument was instead of making it 4/4/4 it could add one passive slot each per Rep system, so with undine being 5/5/4 and the following ones 6/6/4 and 7/7/4 - which would be still less than we have now
all went out of hand then when we were stuck on the point if its a nerf or not. where you say its not and i say it is.
so may we just agree on that it changes stuff where some players worked hard on to get it and use it. and now adapting is not the same easy way, as not everything lost can be gained by the buffed (and in the patch again reduced) powers.
the whole thing was for to get a way that the power creep can be reduced. and still not all the earned rep poers are lost ( yeah i know i can slot them anytime i want) but as not even the loadout system works properly and i have to slot my boffs everytime when i change map i dont really need to slot something again before each fight as then preperations with slotting traits take longer than the fight itself.
cryptic has a history in doing stuff and then changin it afterwards to the less better. i just have the fear that this is just the start and once it hit holodeck they will alter it even more, like they did various times before.
when it would just stay the 4 reps i am okay with 4/4/4 but with each added Rep, (and you can double slot traits meaning 2 tier one powers of the same rep) there will be too much choices. and people will start ignoring the rep passives at all.
what is the problem with the argument that when it will be 5 reps that 5/5/4 would be appropriate then?
Ok, so it's meant to level the playing field a little while letting cryptic continue adding rep system after rep system.
A little?
It shoots everyone in the foot who has put the time and effort into reaching the top level of the current reputation requirements.
I have a simple solution for everyone who hasn't and wants the benefits.... Just do them, you won't get everything overnight, but at least you will have the benefits and some sense of accomplishment when you get done.
I see nothing wrong with the current system. I see great potential for a diverse range of setups if they do add more using the current system.
If you want to change something, just add 4 (2 ground, 2 space) active skill slots (2 in the top 2 tiers).
Whats the point of the passives if in the end your setup won't be more than a skill or two different than the next guy?
I will probably have to get different fleet/spire cores from the aux supper bosting (W->Aux ) as I likley won't opt to benefit from the T4 Nukara rep trait.:eek:
well for the wording.
im not a native english speaker, and i am a bit angry at the rep. so thats why i may sound weird or could have worded some phrases otherwise.
Yeah, no worries, I realize everyone is forced into speaking English on these forums (yet another point I would like to raise against the lousy ToS here, but I digress).
your last comment just made me upset as it stated the " you play only PvP, that's the world you live in"
i respect that. but somehow i tend to think that there is zero tollerance for the PvEers hit by this.
i would vote for a solution where the power creep in PvP is nerfed and still PvEers can use some of their now precious powers where some did spend hours on hours to get them.
i know PvE and PvP are totally different worlds. and in a game where both have to handle the very same mechanics it wont be possible to actually make both sides.... pleased with it.
my first argument was instead of making it 4/4/4 it could add one passive slot each per Rep system, so with undine being 5/5/4 and the following ones 6/6/4 and 7/7/4 - which would be still less than we have now
all went out of hand then when we were stuck on the point if its a nerf or not. where you say its not and i say it is.
so may we just agree on that it changes stuff where some players worked hard on to get it and use it. and now adapting is not the same easy way, as not everything lost can be gained by the buffed (and in the patch again reduced) powers.
the whole thing was for to get a way that the power creep can be reduced. and still not all the earned rep poers are lost ( yeah i know i can slot them anytime i want) but as not even the loadout system works properly and i have to slot my boffs everytime when i change map i dont really need to slot something again before each fight as then preperations with slotting traits take longer than the fight itself.
cryptic has a history in doing stuff and then changin it afterwards to the less better. i just have the fear that this is just the start and once it hit holodeck they will alter it even more, like they did various times before.
when it would just stay the 4 reps i am okay with 4/4/4 but with each added Rep, (and you can double slot traits meaning 2 tier one powers of the same rep) there will be too much choices. and people will start ignoring the rep passives at all.
what is the problem with the argument that when it will be 5 reps that 5/5/4 would be appropriate then?
I agree with most of what you said here. In the face of Cryptic's nerfing of the "improved" rep traits, I'm now forced to conclude that they really are reducing our abilities. Whether that is a step in the right direction or not is unclear at this point in time. We'll have to see.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
57 pages and no Cryptic Admins jumping in and rectifying the issues!? REALLY!? whats the point anymore? If Cryptic, better known as Craptic, replied anywhere on this thread can someone give me a page number so I can see what their "excuse" is for this melancholy?
I guess my grief with this entire Reputation Trait Revamp is the fact that Cryptic is not considering (or maybe they are and don't care) the amount of time/effort it took the players who actually did level up all their Rep (or even a couple of them) on their toons. I have done it personally on 5 of my 9 max leveled toons and am working on the other currently. I can only imagine how someone who has 20+ toons feels about this.
On the other hand I do somewhat understand WHY they are doing this. The DPS numbers in this game have gotten crazy out of hand. And IMHO I think that because of these super high DPS numbers it is making the game too easy and less fun. I have actually gotten away from some of my high DPS builds on my toons and been trying out other builds just because it's keeping me a little more interested in playing the game.
Unfortunately until all this goes live and we've all had a little time to adjust to this new system it'll be hard to tell what this outcome is going to be good or bad.
57 pages and no Cryptic Admins jumping in and rectifying the issues!? REALLY!? whats the point anymore? If Cryptic, better known as Craptic, replied anywhere on this thread can someone give me a page number so I can see what their "excuse" is for this melancholy?
This honestly is not uncommon. Frankly if I were Cryptic I wouldn't want to reply directly to this either in the forums due to possible rage/flame and possibly making the situation worse.
I guess my grief with this entire Reputation Trait Revamp is the fact that Cryptic is not considering (or maybe they are and don't care) the amount of time/effort it took the players who actually did level up all their Rep (or even a couple of them) on their toons. I have done it personally on 5 of my 9 max leveled toons and am working on the other currently. I can only imagine how someone who has 20+ toons feels about this.
Well, as someone with 32 toons, all of which have at least 2 reps and most of which have 3 or 4, I can tell you that you don't need to imagine much: My feel about this: Meh.
The way I see it, this change ultimately results in an improvement for all characters. Yes, I will not be able to simultaneously use all of the rep powers I got, but given that I will be using something from at least 3 reps, my work is not exactly wasted here, and the powers that I can choose from will be better. Would I rather have 4 specifically chosen bonii that are stronger than before, while discarding the ones that were marginal and offered me little of real importance for a given situation? Yes, please.
So, as someone with 20+ maxed out toons, I'm saying I'm willing to give it a shake. At minimum, not having to pay for respecs is an improvement on its own.
Comments
AdjudictorHawk never specified that the existing "choose 1 of 2 space powers" function was being modified. I'm under the assumption that your choice would still be there, and from the choice you selected, you can choose from that.
Dyson: 2 (1 from tier 2, 1 from Tier 4)
Romulan: 2
Nukara: 2
Omega: 2
2+2+2+2=8.
Same goes for the ground rep.
Active traits, since there is no option, is still 2 ground and 2 space.
Undine rep will add more.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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You can choose 4 passives per rep. So, yeah, 50% nerf.
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Again, each passive is being boosted. Most of the passives don't specify the exact percentage benefit they are receiving, but the ones that do indicate a doubling in their power (+10% is now +20% CrtD, 2.5%SP is now 5.0%SP, etc). This way, it's as if you are receiving 2 of the same power.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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end of line... and when you still say its only 8 powers for space. i will stop talking as when you don't even play it on tribble and keep up the its not a nerf flag.. it has no sense talking here. go on tribble and take a look at the trait windw itself it has listeed all the traits and you can chose 4 out of a friggin huge list. on tribble its 20 space powers and 20 ground powers for only 4 slots each.. think about that. and as i said in my post before, i tested my ship in all space trait configs i had time for. and i just wasnt possible to get it to the same exact point either i have less shields or less hull, all hull boosts are more than before aye. but i cannot slot the shield the hull and the weapon passive like i have now so either i go just on hull just on shield or just on DPS.... i cant mix hul and shield the same way as before ( i can slot some of those powers aye. but they are less effective without the other hull and shield powers )
so now i have all hull and shield and some of the weapons powesr slotted and on tribble same ship same build same skills... i have 2 shield 2 hull powers slotted on tribble and now having less hull, less shield and no weapon bonus.... how does that make up?? the bonus is not equal to the loss in powers. test it out yourself. when going for hull and shields you simply cannot get the same as before
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You forgot about the new undine rep coming with season 9. That means we will have a total of 20 ground and 20 space traits to chose from but can only take a max of 4 ground and 4 space, leaving us with 16 powers each not taken for a total of 32 unused powers, plus 1 activateabale power from tier 5 reps because we can only take 4 and will have 5 to choose from.
So that means out of a total of 45 powers from all reps, we can only take a max of 9 at any given time. Sure we can switch around what powers we want any time we want, but it still seems too limited.
didnt forgot , just didnt mention it in that post as stardestroyer was only counting the holodeck powers.
in previous posts i did mention the undine rep already summing it up to 20 passive space, 20 passive ground and 5 active powers. and only 4 slots each to slot them
its 12 powers not 9 on tribble 4 ground, 4 space, 4 active
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You can still be a vaper, and with a greater one-shot punch than ever.
Keep in mind that this change is meant to recover from power creep. So if you are currently reaping the benefits of being a godship (actually, from what it sounds like, you seem unhappy that you+team take a long time to kill a ship instead), that will be rectified with this patch to be more in line with what we experienced a year or so ago.
Again, not a nerf. An evolution to bring the system more in line with balance and reducing power creep.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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The passives were boosted, then nerfed a bit. April 3rd tribble patch notes http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1072931
Specifically what you are referring to, under 'Systems - Reputation Traits' in the long list:
As well as other examples:
So yeah. They buffed the rep traits to compensate for the lack of trait slots, but then turned around and nerfed some of them due to the traits being OP.
...Wow.
All I can say is, that Undine rep had better restore the balance. Otherwise, the problem we have now is only going to get worse - there will be little difference between an escort and a cruiser, aside from the console slots and turn rates. Oh wait, Gal-X.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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and where you can vaporise everything and greater one punch power..
again I DONT WANT THAT
i want my HULL and SHIELDS!!!!! i am not playing DPS online
every example you state is for enhanced DPS or shooting power ,.. the hull and shield powers got nerfed until recognition ..
and you still say yeah but the DPS got enhanced..
i dont care about the damned weapons now making more crits i dont have them slotted.
i talk about the hull boosting powers and the shield boosts and those got nerfed. and again nerfed.
and i cannot get the same shield hull config as i have now. and that is bugging me. as i either have to run only hull boositng that or only shields boosting that.
but as you dont know the 3rd april nerfed the powers i assume you dont play on tribble?
so why do you argue with something you havent played even yet?
the Problem of power creep persists you can now make even more damage !!!! just your hull and shield will be fubar. meaning if you pvp, you are blowing up even more faster as they make more dps and you have eitehr less hull or less sheilds
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Well, so much for that lame 'nickle & dime' story then.
Riiiiight.
Again, I referenced that simply because yesterday's theme of the day was vapers. The new changes will make those vapers easier to kill, since they would sacrifice the defensive passives in order to boost their vape shots. I hope this makes sense to you.
As for the defensive powers, in tandem with the removal of XTeam shared cooldowns, I don't view this as a significant problem. Cruisers will still get defensive benefits, albeit not as great as before (2/3 extra bonus with each power compared to existing?). Escorts will get the protection they need; and even if they suffer, that is what team healers are for. In every way, this benefits team healers as well.
Perhaps it is a nerf, but not "doom". Just a change.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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in a pvp world.
in pve only where i love to have a team of 3 afkers and then have to survive mirror invasion with 1 other playing player i love my ship and having all its passive armour, hull and shield powers.
but this is not possible now (i tested it today after the new patch) it was possible before the 3rd april patch but now its not the same. the ship is basically over all weaker than before. no matter how i slot the passives.
i hope that also makes sense to you
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Somehow your issue may deal with AFK Leechers and not the actual game mechanics themselves. You can't blame one component for being at fault where the real cause is a completely different, defective component.
Perhaps it is time to adapt? That's what an MMO is, in definition, and preached by the CS department. A lot of Science captains in science ships had to adapt with last month's various patches. You're not the only one.
I'm guessing you're trying to sound smart-alecky with that comment. Really, it doesn't change my stance one bit.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Actually happened to me yesterday.
well the easy as pie PvE world is also a part of this game .. but i dont know anything about that, as i never played PvP... oh wait i have and still do, just not in a fed boat. on PvP side i will not complain on any changes here. as most are now better. true. for DPS it is and for crits.
but i play mainly PvE. you know, the way this game was intended,...and you are a prime example of one of those "i ignore everything not PvP related and then scream nerf it when something comes that actually boosts something." players, the last time smething did change for PvP i think it was the elachi subspace console .. oh dear what PvP Shatstorm was that..... i guess you could not just adapt couldnt you? well strange but you are saying we have to adapt..
no i didn't want to sound smart. i just hoped that you could also understand the view of PvEer..you did not.
instead you started stating how cool you are by telling me that i "tried to sound smart" well thank you i now know i am a blunt dumb PvE player that has apparently nothing to search in this game and well as this is clearly a full PvP multiplayer game so all your argument have to be true anyways.
but with your answer you simply put yourself out of league for me.. me the poor tribble PvE player that has to argue with the pro PvP player that hasnt even tested any of those traits self on tribble.. i guess i go back to my easy as pie gameplay and hope for the next lockbox will again bring something as console where the PvPers scream nerf it after just 2 weeks.
like they always do.
have a good day, sir / miss
i am done with you, well obviously there will be the random i am wrong in all matters and of dear that did hurt you /ironic post of you, where you state your last word also to prove again that all of us are terribly wrong, and you are the only one who is right. and this is not a nerf and so on and so on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m34GUn0QqA
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The changes HAD to be done as a start in reigning in the rampant Power Creep. This is both a PVE & PVP issue. The Power Creep is so vast that it has trivialized "elite" content. It has trivialized stuff that should get a group of players to do. With new Reputation trees & tiers over the years, it meant players getting more and more power and benefits with nothing to hold them back.
Really, how ridiculous would the average build be with the current system and with Cryptic adding the Undine Rep? And future Reps? How stupid is it all going to look with all those Passive & Active Rep abilities from Omega, Romulan, Nukara, Dyson, the upcoming Undine? And new stuff after the Undine Rep given more time? Without the upcoming Undine Rep, you currently have 4 Rep Trees, and fully developed, you have TWENTY g*ddamn Rep abilities at any given time. When Undine hits, that bumps up to TWENTY-FIVE. What about future Rep trees? Just keep adding 5...
Jesus H. Christ, guys, can you NOT see how wrong that looks?
With unbridled access to Rep traits & abilities, players can just keep stockpiling more and more and more ridiculous boosts. Each new Rep with the current system would increase power that much more.
And the game content has never been able to deal with it when there were even fewer Reps, much less with what we have now and what will be possible in the future.
WITH the changes, it means Cryptic can keep making new Reputation Trees, new abilities. Yet WITH the changes, it means players can access the different things but they must *choose* which ones on a far more limited basis. This is far better than simply having almost everything on at one time. WITH the changes, the players can alter the selected Rep when out of combat, not requiring a token of some sort. It can be done on the fly.
The changes are needed to reign in on the rampant power creep. It's not a PVE or PVP issue. It's BOTH.
If you still don't like it, well... it's still coming, baby. And you need to cut back on the enriched baby formula.
True. But that's mostly because Mirror will be done and gone before Season 9 launches.
Why are you guys still running it? Weren't you as burned out by it as me? I just stopped doing it this weekend. Was tired of it.
i do understand the point of adding this feature. my point was that 4/4/4 is a bit less when future reps will come and we have over 40 powers to chose from then. it will be hard to make a good call then.
the only thin i wanted was adding one slot per rep. its fairer as it is now. but still you can at least use one power of the now unlocked rep.
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And that is where I draw the line between discussing the topic and slandering someone - especially when you know nothing about them.
I complained a bit about the baseball, but then I adapted. And in fact, I insist that each player continues to do the same thing - adapt. This MMO is ever changing, and if you stay still for too long, new strategies and tactics will make yours outdated.
You really know nothing about me, do you? I've insisted that players adapt to the Galaxy, the D'Deridex, the Scimmy, the this-and-that, foundry, pvp, etc etc etc etc. Over and over. It's all about adapting. And I suppose you really didn't know all of that, did you.
Next time I suggest you do a little research on the people you claim are "prime examples"! LOL!
The "smart" comment was made to your copy-pasting of my words back at me, which does seem smart alecky. It has nothing to do with your actual intelligence (something which I cannot say is sub-par - you do seem quite intelligent). It's how you said your words - or rather, how you threw mine back at me - which was smart-alecky.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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im not a native english speaker, and i am a bit angry at the rep. so thats why i may sound weird or could have worded some phrases otherwise.
still also some of your comments sounded pickering or say "attacking" ( in lack of a less stronger word for it)
your last comment just made me upset as it stated the " you play only PvP, that's the world you live in"
i respect that. but somehow i tend to think that there is zero tollerance for the PvEers hit by this.
i would vote for a solution where the power creep in PvP is nerfed and still PvEers can use some of their now precious powers where some did spend hours on hours to get them.
i know PvE and PvP are totally different worlds. and in a game where both have to handle the very same mechanics it wont be possible to actually make both sides.... pleased with it.
my first argument was instead of making it 4/4/4 it could add one passive slot each per Rep system, so with undine being 5/5/4 and the following ones 6/6/4 and 7/7/4 - which would be still less than we have now
all went out of hand then when we were stuck on the point if its a nerf or not. where you say its not and i say it is.
so may we just agree on that it changes stuff where some players worked hard on to get it and use it. and now adapting is not the same easy way, as not everything lost can be gained by the buffed (and in the patch again reduced) powers.
the whole thing was for to get a way that the power creep can be reduced. and still not all the earned rep poers are lost ( yeah i know i can slot them anytime i want) but as not even the loadout system works properly and i have to slot my boffs everytime when i change map i dont really need to slot something again before each fight as then preperations with slotting traits take longer than the fight itself.
cryptic has a history in doing stuff and then changin it afterwards to the less better. i just have the fear that this is just the start and once it hit holodeck they will alter it even more, like they did various times before.
when it would just stay the 4 reps i am okay with 4/4/4 but with each added Rep, (and you can double slot traits meaning 2 tier one powers of the same rep) there will be too much choices. and people will start ignoring the rep passives at all.
what is the problem with the argument that when it will be 5 reps that 5/5/4 would be appropriate then?
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A little?
It shoots everyone in the foot who has put the time and effort into reaching the top level of the current reputation requirements.
I have a simple solution for everyone who hasn't and wants the benefits.... Just do them, you won't get everything overnight, but at least you will have the benefits and some sense of accomplishment when you get done.
I see nothing wrong with the current system. I see great potential for a diverse range of setups if they do add more using the current system.
If you want to change something, just add 4 (2 ground, 2 space) active skill slots (2 in the top 2 tiers).
Whats the point of the passives if in the end your setup won't be more than a skill or two different than the next guy?
Please point out which comment was attacking you. I strive not to personally attack people, and if I am, I would very much like to know.
I agree with most of what you said here. In the face of Cryptic's nerfing of the "improved" rep traits, I'm now forced to conclude that they really are reducing our abilities. Whether that is a step in the right direction or not is unclear at this point in time. We'll have to see.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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On the other hand I do somewhat understand WHY they are doing this. The DPS numbers in this game have gotten crazy out of hand. And IMHO I think that because of these super high DPS numbers it is making the game too easy and less fun. I have actually gotten away from some of my high DPS builds on my toons and been trying out other builds just because it's keeping me a little more interested in playing the game.
Unfortunately until all this goes live and we've all had a little time to adjust to this new system it'll be hard to tell what this outcome is going to be good or bad.
This honestly is not uncommon. Frankly if I were Cryptic I wouldn't want to reply directly to this either in the forums due to possible rage/flame and possibly making the situation worse.
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The way I see it, this change ultimately results in an improvement for all characters. Yes, I will not be able to simultaneously use all of the rep powers I got, but given that I will be using something from at least 3 reps, my work is not exactly wasted here, and the powers that I can choose from will be better. Would I rather have 4 specifically chosen bonii that are stronger than before, while discarding the ones that were marginal and offered me little of real importance for a given situation? Yes, please.
So, as someone with 20+ maxed out toons, I'm saying I'm willing to give it a shake. At minimum, not having to pay for respecs is an improvement on its own.