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Official feedback thread for the new Earth Space Dock

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  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,449 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    First Monkeybone nice smile.

    Two, That's EXACTLY what I was thinking, perfect.
    darlexa wrote: »
    you must have worked lower in the ship than i did. the hanger is three decks tall, but there is two numbering systems. main deck is deck one and would be the normal first exterior deck you would see and signifies the start of the superstructure above the main hull. that's the floor of the hanger, and goes down to the keel in ascending numbers. then there is the decks above the main deck, and goes up O1 and up. there is a full set of compartments between the flight deck and the hanger, deck O3.

    technically, the flight deck is O4, but the only spaces with that number are in the island. features on the flight deck are generally contained in a compartment below the flight deck, and will carry the location of the space there are actually in. i think machines that are part of the deck surface are simply numbered from right to left, fore to aft, but i don't know i didn't work in those departments.

    another technical location is O11. there is no O11 per se, its merely the top of the compartments of deck O10. above that, locations on the mast are listed as platform followed by feet above the nominal water line.
    Actually no, we're on the exact same page.

    And only the ETs and occasionally the Quartermasters went on to the O11.

    Won't catch me up in microwave land.
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    As interesting is this conversation about hangars and decks the fact is Starfleet doesnt have hangars ... they have shuttlebays and their primary purpose was to house shuttles that are used to ferry personal.

    Starships are not based off US Naval Carriers, they are loosely based off naval ships with Deck 1 being the bridge, were that applies to Starbases is harder to tell but K-7 had a shuttlebay, their purpose was for smaller craft to dock to the station, not land in the station.

    The entire argument cannot just ignore Star Trek DID had style manuals were certain things remained consistent over the series, like Desk 1 on a Federation Starship being, ALWAYS were the bridge was located.

    Lets not confuse ESD with a Nimitz Class carrier.
    There's no divergence however. On Naval Ships and starships all decks are numbered in descending order from Deck 1. The only divergence is in the 22nd and 23rd century where it was letters instead of numbers.

    The only Starships that I've ever heard of having levels above Deck 1 is the Nebula with its superstructure and probably the Constellation class. It hasn't actually come up in the canon.

    If I recall correctly weren't the shuttlebays called the Hangar deck in TOS?

    Memory Alpha has articles on them.
    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hangar
    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Shuttlebay
    hauriant wrote: »
    Totally agree with this. Would prefer her hair the old way, but any way that looks good & shows at least one ear clearly is fine.

    Seeing an Ocampa in Starfleet was so intriguing for me. it made me want to know her story, how she or her ancestors got here and hopefully see her visit the Delta Quadrant in the eventual expansion. Like Miles O'Brien or Rom, she's a background character who I think could go places if handled well. Without being able to see she's Ocampa, it lessens that mystique. It would be like never referring to Akira Sulu by his last name. New players might forget her. Also, I believe at least 1 Foundry author mentions her being Ocampa in dialogue using her as the mission contact, so that fact being obvious would help avoid confusion.

    Agreed, I was always thinking that she was a successful product of Project: Full Circle amped up especially with the introduction of the Vesta class.

    Or maybe Kes had a daughter and dropped her off to Admiral Janeway.

    There's a lot that could be mined from her very presence.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif
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  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    captaind3 wrote: »
    First Monkeybone nice smile.

    Two, That's EXACTLY what I was thinking, perfect.


    Actually no, we're on the exact same page.

    And only the ETs and occasionally the Quartermasters went on to the O11.

    Won't catch me up in microwave land.

    There's no divergence however. On Naval Ships and starships all decks are numbered in descending order from Deck 1. The only divergence is in the 22nd and 23rd century where it was letters instead of numbers.

    The only Starships that I've ever heard of having levels above Deck 1 is the Nebula with its superstructure and probably the Constellation class. It hasn't actually come up in the canon.

    If I recall correctly weren't the shuttlebays called the Hangar deck in TOS?

    Memory Alpha has articles on them.
    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hangar
    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Shuttlebay

    *how'd you guess? I had equipment at the O11 level on constellation, but aft of the stack, but on Truman, it was mounted to the side of the flight deck. had to chip and paint up there on conny. my shop was half way up the island on Truman because most of my gear was on that level.

    *so very little is done with shuttles in canon that im not surprised. most of the info I have is actually pulled form the galaxy class blueprints. lovely things, and they show all the back ground on the shuttle bays.

    *I wonder, but maybe the nacelles themselves aren't considered as part of the normal deck numbering systems? constitutions the nacelles just about on the same level as the bridge. and they weren't the only ships with high mounted nacelles either.
  • sirboulevardsirboulevard Member Posts: 722 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    captaind3 wrote: »
    A Doctor not a Vending machine, which is hilarious considering his function. Good joke.

    Having looked at the new NPC Odyssey uniforms I have to agree with the detractors. The only person who really looks great in it is Admiral Quinn with his gold trim. Everyone else looks extremely dark. I thought the uniform colors were meant for quick identification. In the Odyssey I'd put the division color on the shoulders instead of the border. When seen at a distance regardless of the division the entire uniform is very dark. The most military canon Starflet Uniform used in the Dominion war still had that bright grey to lighten it up. The Spacedock uniforms are even more glaring compared to the Spacedock itself which is bright (though a heck of a lot darker than when this thing was first put out...please turn the lights back on).

    I have to disagree with you. The division stripe always from my eyes looked INTENTIONALLY to be where the division colour should be. Otherwise, why have it. I've also noticed they went the extra mile to make the shoulder colours to establish WHERE the person works. Captains Yim, Sulu and Ford, being starship commanders have White shoulders while our ship based redshirts have coloured shoulders while the ESD personnell have the grey shoulders. Which says two things to me: the shoulders are to ID who works here and who doesn't (which makes asking some random officer who might not work there for help less likely) and then upon getting closer - what division they are. So the design says "(from 100 ft away) Oh! That guy works here, I should ask him for directions." "(From 10 ft away) Oh! He works in Engineering!"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
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  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    This is close to the uniform I use.

    i was pretty happy setting mine to black top and bottom, and leaving the color and accent alone.
  • sirboulevardsirboulevard Member Posts: 722 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    Actually ...

    When DS9 come we had a new specific uniform used by DS9 personal along with the later TNG uniforms, when Sisko moved to work on Starfleet Command he switched uniforms to the later TNG Uniform.

    Of course Voyager used the same DS9 Uniform with the new combadge used on late DS9/TNG Movies.

    There is really not much way to rationalize this, the "grey shoulder" as you call are in the late DS9/TNG uniforms, in the novels there was a evolution were the blue-grey shoulders became white, DS9 earlier/Voyager uniform were 3 tones but division color was in the shoulders and the grey was in the turtleneck and Voyager use of that uniform kinda makes confusing since Voyager was a starship and not a starbase.

    Plus we do have the Alternative Future and the Relativity uniforms were its very easy to see what division that person belongs, having the division color on the stripe isnt as straightforward as it was, we back at late DS9/TNG uniforms were its harder to see at a distance.

    1) Your argument should not include the novels. Novels are not canon to STO.

    2) I was refering to the "grey shoulders" to the IN GAME oddy uniforms on ESD. Ship Captains wear White and lower decks wore colours.

    3) Your rationalization is flawed. We do go back to old designs all the time. Whats popular to wear tends to be cyclical. Leather was big in the 80s and then disappeared in the 90s only to come back in the latter half of the 2000s. Likewise this incarnation of the Odyssey uniform makes me feel after the last two decades of the Sierra/Antares leather uniforms and massive wars, Starfleet wanted a more "retro" design to as a push towards "we're not a military!" despite being in most of said wars still (assuming the KDF/FED one ends Tuesday). It makes me feel like Starfleet is deliberately taking a step back to re-evaluate itself. And I like that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
  • monkeybone13monkeybone13 Member Posts: 4,640 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    captaind3 wrote: »
    First Monkeybone nice smile.

    Two, That's EXACTLY what I was thinking, perfect.

    Heh. Thanks. :D

    I think for myself I decided on a classic look for the color scheme. http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c355/MonkeyGuts69/Odysseyuniformupdated_zps5d4a7ee9.jpg~original

    Basically an Odyssey version of this http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Starfleet_uniforms,_post-2373.jpg :)

    It keeps it in line with what Cryptic has chosen but brightens it up a bit.

    For Cryptic's department colors, it looks like they went with something along the lines of A20/C20/F20 going by the color palette available to use, which makes the color too bland and dark. If you look closely at the NPCs the part across the shoulders is 1 or 2 shades lighter than the black uniform.

    So with my scheme it just basically brightens up the gray and department. I chose A6 for the gray and A9/C9/F9 for department colors. For the combadge I went with the TNG - Films. The basic Operations/Command/Science insignias are too plain looking and the Alternate Future combadge seems out of place.

    Edit: And since Cryptic seems to refuse to allow us access to the Odyssey belt (worn by Admiral Tuvok, but has been around for a long time), the Jupiter belt from the c-store Jupiter costume bundle is a good alternative.
  • kazabokkazabok Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The new uniform standard looks great, much improved.

    I guess it's black with division coloured band for Officers and grey with division coloured shoulders and trouser stripe for Enlisted? Or is there some other reason for the variations?

    It would be nice to get this scheme for the crew on our ships.
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  • kylelockekylelocke Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Still need to put in the Romulan officers on ESD. The corridor between the transporters and rotunda feels like it needs something.
    "I will make the Orion Syndicate face the light of justice or burn them with it." - Captainl Kyle Nathaniel Locke, U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-98105-C
  • captain25075captain25075 Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The Guards at the door to Ops change. One changes from Male to female and the other one changes from uniform and gear when you cross the door barrier right there at ops.
    rkburdette_11975.jpg
  • sirboulevardsirboulevard Member Posts: 722 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    Vesta is in the game, come from a novel and that is exactly were that change come from, the Destiny series..

    Its funny that you go about "novels are not canon" and then go about rhe white sholders that ... is exactly were that come from.

    How so?
    1) Destiny's EVENTS never occured. If Destiny is canon to STO. We should not be fighting Borg. The Borg would be permanently gone. The Vesta was added at fan request (including its designer Mark Rademaker) but the events of the Novels NEVER HAPPENED. There is no Typhon Pact. The first version of DS9 should be destroyed. Sela would have committed suicide. The Iconians would be good guys. Sisko shouldn't still be in the wormhole. THESE ARE THINGS THAT HAVE NOT HAPPENED IN STO.

    The shoulders I was talking about WERE WHAT THE STO DEVELOPERS CHOSE IN GAME RIGHT NOW FOR THIS NEW ESD. I was not talking about the novels AT ALL in that sequence.

    THAT is why your logic is flawed.
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    No, we dont.

    The Odyssey uniform is within a logical progression of Late DS9/TNG Movies->Alternative Future->Relativity, when it comes to colors is were I pointed out at no point had starbases ever used exclusively a color.

    Early DS9 had a uniform that Voyager also used so that could not been a uniform only used on starbase personal, you cannot claim color either because Voyager used the exact same turtleneck color.

    I have no idea what you are going on about, what I said was simple ... Starbases have NO SPECIFIC COLOR DIVISION TO BEING ON A STARBASE because Voyager happened that invalidated any argument that DS9 Uniforms were used by Federation Starbase personal, a connection that DS9 did established by making Starfleet Command using the TNG uniform but as I said, Voyager happened.

    Again.

    I am not talking about the uniforms, I am talking about colors ... the Odyssey uniform is likely a throwback to the Late DS9/TNG Movie uniform, maybe because many of the "leather jackets" Uniforms in STO were not much popular.

    On a evolution, the Odyssey uniform makes sense, the question to me is color as I pointed out there is no distinction of Starbase and Starship uniform because only DS9 made some connection to that to that but them Voyager happened and invalidated it.

    In terms of color if you wanted a throwback you could have the TOS movie TWoK uniforms with all red with the stripe being the division color, likewise you could have the Alternative Future with a black strip with division color being the jacket color as that is the scheme that will eventually be used in the Relativity uniforms.

    The All Good Things Uniform NEVER occured canonically in this timeline. That uniform is an alternate future uniform THAT NEVER happened. The uniform that's been in service is from Countdown. The tie in to the 2009 movie which took place in the Prime universe as a backstory to it. This version which is Sierra 1 and this one which is one of the Jupiter uniforms. The leather jackets werent Cryptic's choice - they were forced on them.

    Second I am talking about the clear design choices they made. Im trying to use analogies and youre taking my points WAYYY too literally. The Odyssey uniform is yes, based on the TNG movie uniform but its colour schemes chosen for the new ESD is taking some colour design elements from the late TNG/Early DS9 era. You can pull from multiple eras of design you know.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
  • maxvitormaxvitor Member Posts: 2,213 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I think we really need to stop using the word canon when discussing anything involving this game and we need to stay on topic.
    Commander Menn Hilo is not interactable at this time.
    Seated NPCs shouldn't be wearing kits, they look odd with a backpack or other gear clipping in and out of the seat.
    There are some pathing problems, some NPCs walking over the glass walking up the curving ramp from the exchange to OPS, others coming up from out of the floor to walk up the north ramp on the Concourse. others seem to float over or pass through the ramps while moving up and down them.
    There is still one NPC walking a circuitous route around the shuttles for no apparent purpose, he is moving from point to point with no delay making his actions look ridiculous, maybe if his route covered a larger area it wouldn't be as obvious.
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  • captainedwards09captainedwards09 Member Posts: 180 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    pfreeman wrote: »
    I'm not sure the mission requiring him is still being used. I just went thru the tutorial sequence, and when (according to the STO wiki) I was supposed to get the 'Scientific Mandate' mission (basically after you finish the tutorial) I didn't. I've run around ESD talking to everyone I can but can't get that mission. I looked into replaying it with one of me Vice Admirals and cannot replay it either.

    peter

    I don't think it can be replayed. I believe I've ran it on all of my characters so I'd have to start a new one to see if it still works
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  • xraiderv1xraiderv1 Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    the earth space dock interact console for foundary missions that used to be outside the transporter room on the old earth space dock has vanished on the new earth space dock.
    Murphy's laws:
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    2- And anything that does go wrong will get progressively worse.
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  • zebulongileszebulongiles Member Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Never mind my old post about E'genn missing from the new ESD, I understand now why that is. But what about the Scientific Mandate mission to familiarize new players with the crafting system?
  • kylelockekylelocke Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Feels like something is still missing. While I still would like to see something like Federation versions of the information signs seen on DS9 to fill in some of the open areas, I do think that a security office could be added opposite the Sickbay...seeing as the Undine completely destroyed the old ESD level. While late, I thought it could be added when Club 47 makes a return...good place to let the drunks cool off but also would be good for roleplay purposes and could serve as an information booth for the 8472 Counter Command.
    "I will make the Orion Syndicate face the light of justice or burn them with it." - Captainl Kyle Nathaniel Locke, U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-98105-C
  • darlexadarlexa Member Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    there is an invisible lip around the outside lower edge of the window at transporter room that allows a player to stand there in the middle of the air.

    you can access it from the railing just as you enter the transporter room.
  • st3whiteknightst3whiteknight Member Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    This may have been picked up already as I can't be bothered to read through 108 pages lol.

    On ESD the commodities broker gives you some FREE shield generators... where do you grab them from? From what i can see, there is no glowing crates?
  • age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I much preferred the original design of ESD and would of like to have a seen a first city idea or idea with Starfleet Command HQ.
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  • izzhoizzho Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Where is the panel, your answer is less then useless
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  • kylelockekylelocke Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    Deep Space 9 was previously known as Terok Nor, it was a Cardassian build and operated orbital refining station and as such its should never be used as basis for a Federation build space station.

    Plus, the Undine never "destroyed the old ESD level" because it no longer exists, new characters will see ESD as it is now, not in the past and there are no "two versions" of ESD, one that exists before the attack and one that exists after, its always the same from this point on.

    One I know DS9 is a Cardassain Station hence Federation 'style Information signs'. Two I merely suggested the multi-lingual info signs to fill in space and because the Federation would establish such signs because of all the different member races, also malls do use them which is where some of the elements for the new design came from. Lastly when I said the Undine 'destroyed' the previous old ESD, I was making reference to the feature episode Surface Tension, which will become a permenant fixture(with the old design being used for the level). If you get the reference then don't get your panties in a bunch.
    "I will make the Orion Syndicate face the light of justice or burn them with it." - Captainl Kyle Nathaniel Locke, U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-98105-C
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  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    I know but what I said hold true, its simply weird because right now the place pre and post attack looks the same but during the attack its like the station changed since the signals were left in, its simply as if the station changes layout during the attack.

    The dev team (and many players) wanted the old design to burn. So they literally set it on fire. :D

    Confusing for new players? Yes. Highly therapeutic for old ones? Very. :P
  • kylelockekylelocke Member Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    There really isnt much point to that, all areas are clearly marked as DS9 lacked any signs, you really needed to consult the directory to know because you really could not tell what was what in the DS9 Promenade.

    Simply the section of ESD simply doesnt require a directory because its not big enough to require one and everything is clearly visible, the station itself is too large to have some directory to be able to point out everything on the station.



    ESD is still a Starfleet starbasebase and you dont see multilingual in LCARS, military goes for standardization as everyone in Starfleet would have to know English as its a major operating language, we have Chekov that is Russian and speaks in Russian and still on a official capacity speaks in English.

    Let me put this way, DS9 Directory would completely unsuitable if applied to ESD if you want to go "multilingual" because there are far too many languages in the Federation, even in Earth alone ... LCARS would be more efficient and likely ESD maps would display the directory on the selected language.

    Look it just doesnt translate well ... not only because the area in ESD we see have too few things to be necessary and they are clearly marked but also we do have the DS9 Directory that because of the textures size its completely unreadable.
    .

    So ignore the travelling Romulan and Defarri dignitaries which rely on translators? Ignore those from the Ferengi Alliance? Ignore the fact that the Federation is a multicultural organisation and like modern first world governments would be sensitive to the needs of other races and political correctness. Additionally even shopping arcades that only stretch for one hundred and fifty meters have such boards. Also it is nothing more than a suggestion for a space filler for the open areas such as in front of the turbolifts and the rotunda. It also could be used to advertise and help execute featured episodes, in the end it is nothing more than an aesthetic touch or are you forgetting that the Fleet Starbase has something like that?
    "I will make the Orion Syndicate face the light of justice or burn them with it." - Captainl Kyle Nathaniel Locke, U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-98105-C
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  • khamseenairkhamseenair Member Posts: 2,640 Bug Hunter
    edited April 2014
    Every time we saw text on a Federation ship or base in the shows, it was in English. In fact, a great shot of this was in the TNG episode 'The Ensigns of Command' where we saw the Treaty of Armens displayed on the main viewer. It showed two languages; Federation (English) and Sheliak.

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Treaty_of_Armens.jpg

    The text in that image also shows another standardisation based on Humans, they reference "one standard UFP solar day"... Well that's based solely on Earth's rotation, not on any other world in the Federation.

    We also know that most species in the Federation speak English. This is witnessed on numerous occasions where they will be speaking in English and then suddenly start speaking their own language. The fact it's not translated, implies they weren't using a universal translator to begin with, plus there are several times throughout the shows where other species have commented on how 'simple' English is.

    In several Star Trek novels, English is referred to as 'Federation Standard' and whilst novels aren't considered to be 'canon' I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption to make. After all, I've never seen sign-age on Federation starships in any language other than English, nor on any scenes of Earth that we saw in the shows. Not to mention the tricorders, weapons, padds, etc all have English text on them.
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