I've only played the tier 4 defiant on my Tac but this is what I got to say to this Ludicrious idea.
There is no curse in Klingon, Romulan, or Tongues of the Federation for the stupditiy of this idea!
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Ok again I will spit it out and this is one point you got to agree with me on that NO CLOAK CONSOLE just onboard cloak like KDF and ROMULAN factions...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Ok again I will spit it out and this is one point you got to agree with me on that NO CLOAK CONSOLE just onboard cloak like KDF and ROMULAN factions...
I would like to see a cloak built in instead of a module, but at the same time i think a battlecloak would be OP
i basically paid 20 dollars for a cloak that needs a slot and has a damage bonus when leaving cloak for a very very short time
if i would have waited, and done a little research before buying, i would not have made this purchase. The defiant from the store has the same amount of slots and the rear admiral tactical, so even though i'm gaining a cloak i'm losing a slot
Defiant is a warbird and it needs its battlecloak :cool:
Don't forget it's singularity abilities.
I would be fine with the battle cloak, but that's because i think the artificial "cannot cloak under fire" mechanic is bollocks.
The Defiant is fine as is though.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Okay,I'll play...give the Defiant the same stats as a Qin Raptor, with the same console layouts in both non-fleet, and fleet versions, same turn rate, same shield mod, same inertial mod, and same hull.
Then, observe the ****storm as Federation players demand their money back.
okay, that's not going to end well...so let's not use the Raptor (The KDF's "Escort" class), instead, we'll pattern it on the Bird of Prey classes. Losing that fifth tac console and aft weapon isntallation, hull and shield mod, for battlecloak and universals?
Here comes the same ****storm of indignant demands.
alrighty, that doesn't work.
Want a ship with Defiant Stats, 'get out of jail free card' and Battlecloak? there is one...just roll a ROMULAN and pick up the T'Varo at level 50.
The problem, as I see it, is that to match the balance of damage, manuever, and toughness a Defiant brings to the table already (even with one console slot occupied by a cloak) you have to either go Lockbox-ship, or Romulan.
IOW, as it stands RIGHT NOW the Defiant is pretty close to, if not, the best non-lockbox, (non-paid-special-offer-limited time only repeated for fundraising periodically, non Romulan)Escort class in the game-people who can't make it work generally should learn to manage their builds better.
my defiant has 4 tac slots not 5 if it had 5 i would not even consider a built in cloak fair, at least give us bargain barn wannabe non fleet defants a built in cloak!
I'm betting that if the Defiant gets anything, it'll be 1: a console set bonus like the Galaxy got a month or so ago, or 2: Whatever the unique Escort power will be when other Escorts get it(targeting computers?)
UNIVERSAL claoking console can be slotted in any of the three, Tac, Engie and Sci.
It, like all Uniconsoles, can any where.
awesome, i logged in to check and it DOES fit...
i appreciate the info, i was wrong
i must have been really tired and tried to drag and drop it into a already full eng slot which was giving me the "that item does not go there"... makes since since eng wont fit into science.....:rolleyes:
I'm betting that if the Defiant gets anything, it'll be 1: a console set bonus like the Galaxy got a month or so ago, or 2: Whatever the unique Escort power will be when other Escorts get it(targeting computers?)
Escorts are not getting a new buff/ability like the Cruiser Commands and 2nd Deflector for Sci Vessels. The reason those new features were introduced was to help bring Cruisers & Sci Vessels into comparable usefulness with Escorts.
Remember, it wasn't long ago that this game was called "Escorts Online."
Also, unless Cryptic introduces some new Defiant 2 piece console bonus (Phaser Quad Cannons + Cloaking Device Console, both from C-Store Defiants), I would make it either of these 3:
OPTION B
"Defiant-Class Ablative Armor" ability: Similar to the Intrepid's Ablative Generator Console, but since this is a set bonus ability, I would have it do the same but weaker total resists.
I use my defiant, and I say no to it as well. Besides, KDF stuff needs to remain unique to the faction, they're feature starved as it is. Makes no sense to steal a homeless guy's food as it were (no disrespect to the KDF btw).
While I agree that the Defiant doesn't need a Battle Cloak, it could definitely use an integrated regular cloak.
Cloaks have become devalued as an ability. The KDF as a whole loses nothing to balance out their ships with integrated cloaks (some argue that KDF lose shields, but in fact KDF ships typically have higher Hull HP and lower shield HP, as Cryptic's way of differentiating them from their FED counterparts; their cloaks come free of cost). Romulan ships have integrated Battle Cloaks at no cost (again, people point to the lower system power as a penalty, but Cryptic has explicitly said that's a cost for their Singularity powers -- whether you feel the Singularity powers are worth the lower power or not is a different argument).
Arguing not to do something solely to keep KDF special snowflakes is poor game design... something Cryptic seems committed to for some reason. As it is, they've set a standard for 2/3rds of all factions to get cloaking-capable ships at no cost to their stats... so there's really no reason why the few cloaking-capable FED ships need to pay a console slot for it.
Again, a Battle cloak for FED ships is not necessary. All the Defiant needs is its regular cloak becoming an integrated system. As someone who owns the Sao Paulo, Defiant-R, and Fleet Defiant-R, I would be just fine with Cryptic just integrating the cloak without adding a new console in its place, as it would still be a massive improvement over arbitrarily using up a console slot.
I'm also going to head off "if you want an integrated cloak, you should lose a console slot -- that's the way it was back in Season 5!" arguments by repeating myself: cloaking devices have been severely devalued in the game by their incredible abundance. They are no longer worth using up a console slot for, but for some arbitrary reason FEDs have to pay that price for a cloaking-capable ship.
TL;DR: There is no reason why cloaks should take up a console slot in the present cloaking-saturated endgame.
While I agree that the Defiant doesn't need a Battle Cloak, it could definitely use an integrated regular cloak.
Cloaks have become devalued as an ability. The KDF as a whole loses nothing to balance out their ships with integrated cloaks (some argue that KDF lose shields, but in fact KDF ships typically have higher Hull HP and lower shield HP, as Cryptic's way of differentiating them from their FED counterparts; their cloaks come free of cost). Romulan ships have integrated Battle Cloaks at no cost (again, people point to the lower system power as a penalty, but Cryptic has explicitly said that's a cost for their Singularity powers -- whether you feel the Singularity powers are worth the lower power or not is a different argument).
Arguing not to do something solely to keep KDF special snowflakes is poor game design... something Cryptic seems committed to for some reason. As it is, they've set a standard for 2/3rds of all factions to get cloaking-capable ships at no cost to their stats... so there's really no reason why the few cloaking-capable FED ships need to pay a console slot for it.
Again, a Battle cloak for FED ships is not necessary. All the Defiant needs is its regular cloak becoming an integrated system. As someone who owns the Sao Paulo, Defiant-R, and Fleet Defiant-R, I would be just fine with Cryptic just integrating the cloak without adding a new console in its place, as it would still be a massive improvement over arbitrarily using up a console slot.
I'm also going to head off "if you want an integrated cloak, you should lose a console slot -- that's the way it was back in Season 5!" arguments by repeating myself: cloaking devices have been severely devalued in the game by their incredible abundance. They are no longer worth using up a console slot for, but for some arbitrary reason FEDs have to pay that price for a cloaking-capable ship.
TL;DR: There is no reason why cloaks should take up a console slot in the present cloaking-saturated endgame.
It's called Faction Uniqueness.
Otherwise, let's have Battle Cloaks, DHCs for all.
The KDF as a whole loses nothing to balance out their ships with integrated cloaks.
you dear sir or madam, clearly haven't play a raptor that couldn't turn to save it's life and is made of tin, or a BoP that dies if you think to hard. the only ship that the kdf has that does lose anything for cloak is the mogh and actaully with it's huge crew it is noticeably squishier then the avenger.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
you dear sir or madam, clearly haven't play a raptor that couldn't turn to save it's life and is made of tin, or a BoP that dies if you think to hard. the only ship that the kdf has that does lose anything for cloak is the mogh and actaully with it's huge crew it is noticeably squishier then the avenger.
You are correct, the Raptor vessel line does suffer handicaps for built in cloak. A Dev has already said as much.,
Battle Cruisers do not suffer for built in cloaks in the KDF.
I know BoPs suffer for the Uslots, speed and turn. I am not certain if they suffer for Battle Cloak or not, but I imagine they do.
The Mogh should be unhandicapped for cloaking since its a battle cruiser.
Its beyond well known that the Bortie suffers the most for its cloak.
You are correct, the Raptor vessel line does suffer handicaps for built in cloak. A Dev has already said as much.,
Battle Cruisers do not suffer for built in cloaks in the KDF.
I know BoPs suffer for the Uslots, speed and turn. I am not certain if they suffer for Battle Cloak or not, but I imagine they do.
The Mogh should be unhandicapped for cloaking since its a battle cruiser.
Its beyond well known that the Bortie suffers the most for its cloak.
you dear sir or madam, clearly haven't play a raptor that couldn't turn to save it's life and is made of tin, or a BoP that dies if you think to hard. the only ship that the kdf has that does lose anything for cloak is the mogh and actaully with it's huge crew it is noticeably squishier then the avenger.
I've made this argument before, so I'm just going to quote myself:
The Fleet Tor'Kaht has more Tactical boff slots and a Universal boff slot, higher turn rate, more innate weapons power, more shields, and innate cloaking.
The Fleet Excelsior has more Hull, one more Device slot, Transwarp, and a higher Inertia rating.
The Fleet Qin has significantly higher hull and shields than the Fleet Defiant, also. In fact, most KDF ships have typically higher Hull than comparable Fed ships (with few exceptions), such as the Botasqu' having 1500 higher base Hull than the Odyssey (with the Bortasqu' also have an innate cloak along with its special console).
Basically, take any two comparable ships from the KDF and FED, and you'll find that the KDF doesn't actually lose anything for its cloak. You can bring up Raiders, but they have battle cloaks. I am solely discussing regular, vanilla-flavored non-battle cloaks.
The way these Feddies whine about that cloak console, you'd think they were getting some major world-shaking use out of that sci slot they're putting the cloak into.
I think a better way to phrase their request is: "Please give the defiant another slot for me to put an OP universal console into."
The way these Feddies whine about that cloak console, you'd think they were getting some major world-shaking use out of that sci slot their putting the cloak into.
I think a better way to phrase their request is: "Please give the defiant another slot for me to put a universal console into."
The way these KDF whine about FEDs wanting integrated cloaking, you'd think it would cause the whole KDF faction to be wiped from the server.
I think a better way to phrase their whining is "I want to be a super special snowflake, FEDs with integrated cloaks would take sandwiches out of the mouths of my future children and cause locusts to swarm across the farmlands of the world".
(I can make sweeping generic derisions, too)
A few select FED ships getting integrated regular cloaks doesn't hurt the KDF at all, and I've yet to see anyone bring up an a valid argument for otherwise.
Nobody is saying any of that. Most of the KDF comments on this thread come from the standpoint of balance and reason.
Like I said, take away one of the Defiant's tac consoles, add a sci or engie, then give it integrated cloak. Why is that so bad? Oh I forgot, because you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Yet another thread in the sea of ME WANT CLOAK NOW threads that flood this board. Roll a Romulan already.
edit: It is funny, because way back when I started this game, I rolled a Fed because I didn't have a choice. I needed to level until 20-something before I could create a Klingon. I played that one mission where you hijack a bird of prey, and I really enjoyed the playstyle. So of course the first thing I did afterwards was look at what options I had for cloaking on the Federation side. I didn't really like any of them. Now, I could have come to the forums and complained, but what I did instead was to roll a Klingon as soon as I could. Haven't looked back since.
Nobody is saying any of that. Most of the KDF comments on this thread come from the standpoint of balance and reason.
Like I said, take away one of the Defiant's tac consoles, add a sci or engie, then give it integrated cloak. Why is that so bad? Oh I forgot, because you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Yet another thread in the sea of ME WANT CLOAK NOW threads that flood this board. Roll a Romulan already.
Again, as I've pointed out, the KDF pay nothing for their cloaks. Cloaking is so prevalent in the game that, from a balance perspective, it's no longer worth a console slot for a cloaking device.
So no, you're not coming from "a standpoint of balance and reason". You're just railing against FED players without taking an objective look at balance.
I don't "want my cake and eat it too", I want FED cloaking to be treated the same as Romulan and KDF -- an integrated system on cloaking-capable ships without a drawback. Despite what you say, when you compare FED and KDF ships, the KDF do indeed pay nothing for their cloaks. It doesn't make sense for the FEDs to arbitrarily have to use up a console slot for one.
Would you be fine with losing a tac console, and making it something else, in exchange for integrated cloaking?
Also, see my edit above.
edit: It is funny, because way back when I started this game, I rolled a Fed because I didn't have a choice. I needed to level until 20-something before I could create a Klingon. I played that one mission where you hijack a bird of prey, and I really enjoyed the playstyle. So of course the first thing I did afterwards was look at what options I had for cloaking on the Federation side. I didn't really like any of them. Now, I could have come to the forums and complained, but what I did instead was to roll a Klingon as soon as I could. Haven't looked back since.
So... because Cryptic dropped the ball on KDF for a couple years, the FEDs can't have balanced cloaking devices? That's not "balance", that's "petty revenge" against players that aren't responsible for Cryptic's design choices.
Why do you keep saying the Defiant should lose a tac console? Both the KDF and the Roms have 5-tac console ships with integrated cloaks (again, free of balance cost -- cloaks are a freebie for everybody but Feds). The Defiant shouldn't have to lose anything. That's my entire point.
Why do you keep saying the Defiant should lose a tac console? Both the KDF and the Roms have 5-tac console ships with integrated cloaks (again, free of balance cost -- cloaks are a freebie for everybody but Feds). The Defiant shouldn't have to lose anything. That's my entire point.
It's a yes or no question, nothing else. Would you be fine with that compromise, yes or no?
The only 5-tac KDf ship has a turn rate of 5, lol.
Turn rate doesn't actually make that much difference, because the only real appeal of 5 tac slots is maximizing alpha strike potential. That's what makes the 5-tac ship dangerous, not just how fast it turns.
Let's also not forget that, out of every single Fleet ship in the game, the FTER is the only ship to not receive its 10% boost to Shields -- a penalty no other ship has, not even 5-tac cloaking ships like the Fleet Ar'Kif, which also has a base turn rate of 16 (just one less than the FTER), a hangar, and a Lt. Com Universal Boff slot. Then there's the Fleet Ha'feh, the Fleet Dhelan...
Again, cloaks are treated as a freebie on every ship except the three FED ships capable of cloaking. It's significantly unbalanced to force FED players to use a console slot for cloaking, and making them integrated hurts no one. If you have an actual argument against cloaks, I'd like to hear it... but I'm just going to keep pointing to every ship that can cloak, and still has 5 tactical slots.
Hell, the Fleet Mogh has literally identical stats to the Fleet Avenger, except it also has its built-in cloak. How can you still argue that cloaks should cost something?
The thread ended up as I expected, the same thing you get anytime you are asking for Starfleet quality-of-life improvements, KDF zealots just troll and insult your intelligence in an inarticulate manner. They so very much loathe this ship even still, despite the Raider buffs on the horizon, something they clamored for. Though when KDF ask for something, it is just and they deserve it, when Fed asks for something, it's just 'whining'.
Ignoring the fact the Defiant already loses a console slot if it cloaks. (All cloaking KDF ships in-fact have the normal amount of console slots)
Ignoring the lack of the +10% shield mod for the Fleet version. (All KDF Fleet grade ships see a shield mod bonus)
Ignoring the suboptimal BOff stations. (Meanwhile the primer KDF ambush-cloak vessels have pure universal stations)
Amusingly, you don't see the same level of hostility and assault against KDF proposals by 'diehard' Fed fans. Anytime KDF improvements are mentioned, it is a fairly civil discussion on all sides. Fed improvement requests are savagely attacked in petty vengeance, akin to the Horde>Alliance disparity discussions in Cataclysm.
Self-serving elitism at it's finest. No wonder I don't enjoy this game or its community anymore...
Comments
There is no curse in Klingon, Romulan, or Tongues of the Federation for the stupditiy of this idea!
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
The Defiant isn't broken.
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Now this is flying
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
I didn't like the name that was assigned to my Defiant Class Escort. There was only one ship named the U.S.S. S
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
I would like to see a cloak built in instead of a module, but at the same time i think a battlecloak would be OP
i basically paid 20 dollars for a cloak that needs a slot and has a damage bonus when leaving cloak for a very very short time
if i would have waited, and done a little research before buying, i would not have made this purchase. The defiant from the store has the same amount of slots and the rear admiral tactical, so even though i'm gaining a cloak i'm losing a slot
Don't forget it's singularity abilities.
I would be fine with the battle cloak, but that's because i think the artificial "cannot cloak under fire" mechanic is bollocks.
The Defiant is fine as is though.
my defiant has 4 tac slots not 5 if it had 5 i would not even consider a built in cloak fair, at least give us bargain barn wannabe non fleet defants a built in cloak!
It, like all Uniconsoles, can any where.
R.I.P
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awesome, i logged in to check and it DOES fit...
i appreciate the info, i was wrong
i must have been really tired and tried to drag and drop it into a already full eng slot which was giving me the "that item does not go there"... makes since since eng wont fit into science.....:rolleyes:
Escorts are not getting a new buff/ability like the Cruiser Commands and 2nd Deflector for Sci Vessels. The reason those new features were introduced was to help bring Cruisers & Sci Vessels into comparable usefulness with Escorts.
Remember, it wasn't long ago that this game was called "Escorts Online."
Also, unless Cryptic introduces some new Defiant 2 piece console bonus (Phaser Quad Cannons + Cloaking Device Console, both from C-Store Defiants), I would make it either of these 3:
OPTION A
+ 8% Phaser Damage Bonus
+ 8% Quantum Projectile Bonus
OPTION B
"Defiant-Class Ablative Armor" ability: Similar to the Intrepid's Ablative Generator Console, but since this is a set bonus ability, I would have it do the same but weaker total resists.
OPTION C
+5% Defense Bonus
While I agree that the Defiant doesn't need a Battle Cloak, it could definitely use an integrated regular cloak.
Cloaks have become devalued as an ability. The KDF as a whole loses nothing to balance out their ships with integrated cloaks (some argue that KDF lose shields, but in fact KDF ships typically have higher Hull HP and lower shield HP, as Cryptic's way of differentiating them from their FED counterparts; their cloaks come free of cost). Romulan ships have integrated Battle Cloaks at no cost (again, people point to the lower system power as a penalty, but Cryptic has explicitly said that's a cost for their Singularity powers -- whether you feel the Singularity powers are worth the lower power or not is a different argument).
Arguing not to do something solely to keep KDF special snowflakes is poor game design... something Cryptic seems committed to for some reason. As it is, they've set a standard for 2/3rds of all factions to get cloaking-capable ships at no cost to their stats... so there's really no reason why the few cloaking-capable FED ships need to pay a console slot for it.
Again, a Battle cloak for FED ships is not necessary. All the Defiant needs is its regular cloak becoming an integrated system. As someone who owns the Sao Paulo, Defiant-R, and Fleet Defiant-R, I would be just fine with Cryptic just integrating the cloak without adding a new console in its place, as it would still be a massive improvement over arbitrarily using up a console slot.
I'm also going to head off "if you want an integrated cloak, you should lose a console slot -- that's the way it was back in Season 5!" arguments by repeating myself: cloaking devices have been severely devalued in the game by their incredible abundance. They are no longer worth using up a console slot for, but for some arbitrary reason FEDs have to pay that price for a cloaking-capable ship.
TL;DR: There is no reason why cloaks should take up a console slot in the present cloaking-saturated endgame.
It's called Faction Uniqueness.
Otherwise, let's have Battle Cloaks, DHCs for all.
you dear sir or madam, clearly haven't play a raptor that couldn't turn to save it's life and is made of tin, or a BoP that dies if you think to hard. the only ship that the kdf has that does lose anything for cloak is the mogh and actaully with it's huge crew it is noticeably squishier then the avenger.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
You are correct, the Raptor vessel line does suffer handicaps for built in cloak. A Dev has already said as much.,
Battle Cruisers do not suffer for built in cloaks in the KDF.
I know BoPs suffer for the Uslots, speed and turn. I am not certain if they suffer for Battle Cloak or not, but I imagine they do.
The Mogh should be unhandicapped for cloaking since its a battle cruiser.
Its beyond well known that the Bortie suffers the most for its cloak.
R.I.P
I've made this argument before, so I'm just going to quote myself:
Basically, take any two comparable ships from the KDF and FED, and you'll find that the KDF doesn't actually lose anything for its cloak. You can bring up Raiders, but they have battle cloaks. I am solely discussing regular, vanilla-flavored non-battle cloaks.
I think a better way to phrase their request is: "Please give the defiant another slot for me to put an OP universal console into."
The way these KDF whine about FEDs wanting integrated cloaking, you'd think it would cause the whole KDF faction to be wiped from the server.
I think a better way to phrase their whining is "I want to be a super special snowflake, FEDs with integrated cloaks would take sandwiches out of the mouths of my future children and cause locusts to swarm across the farmlands of the world".
(I can make sweeping generic derisions, too)
A few select FED ships getting integrated regular cloaks doesn't hurt the KDF at all, and I've yet to see anyone bring up an a valid argument for otherwise.
Like I said, take away one of the Defiant's tac consoles, add a sci or engie, then give it integrated cloak. Why is that so bad? Oh I forgot, because you want to have your cake and eat it too.
Yet another thread in the sea of ME WANT CLOAK NOW threads that flood this board. Roll a Romulan already.
edit: It is funny, because way back when I started this game, I rolled a Fed because I didn't have a choice. I needed to level until 20-something before I could create a Klingon. I played that one mission where you hijack a bird of prey, and I really enjoyed the playstyle. So of course the first thing I did afterwards was look at what options I had for cloaking on the Federation side. I didn't really like any of them. Now, I could have come to the forums and complained, but what I did instead was to roll a Klingon as soon as I could. Haven't looked back since.
Again, as I've pointed out, the KDF pay nothing for their cloaks. Cloaking is so prevalent in the game that, from a balance perspective, it's no longer worth a console slot for a cloaking device.
So no, you're not coming from "a standpoint of balance and reason". You're just railing against FED players without taking an objective look at balance.
I don't "want my cake and eat it too", I want FED cloaking to be treated the same as Romulan and KDF -- an integrated system on cloaking-capable ships without a drawback. Despite what you say, when you compare FED and KDF ships, the KDF do indeed pay nothing for their cloaks. It doesn't make sense for the FEDs to arbitrarily have to use up a console slot for one.
Also, see my edit above.
So... because Cryptic dropped the ball on KDF for a couple years, the FEDs can't have balanced cloaking devices? That's not "balance", that's "petty revenge" against players that aren't responsible for Cryptic's design choices.
Why do you keep saying the Defiant should lose a tac console? Both the KDF and the Roms have 5-tac console ships with integrated cloaks (again, free of balance cost -- cloaks are a freebie for everybody but Feds). The Defiant shouldn't have to lose anything. That's my entire point.
I did. Maybe try reading?
The only 5-tac KDf ship has a turn rate of 5, lol. Your answer looks like a no, which proves my point.
Turn rate doesn't actually make that much difference, because the only real appeal of 5 tac slots is maximizing alpha strike potential. That's what makes the 5-tac ship dangerous, not just how fast it turns.
Let's also not forget that, out of every single Fleet ship in the game, the FTER is the only ship to not receive its 10% boost to Shields -- a penalty no other ship has, not even 5-tac cloaking ships like the Fleet Ar'Kif, which also has a base turn rate of 16 (just one less than the FTER), a hangar, and a Lt. Com Universal Boff slot. Then there's the Fleet Ha'feh, the Fleet Dhelan...
Again, cloaks are treated as a freebie on every ship except the three FED ships capable of cloaking. It's significantly unbalanced to force FED players to use a console slot for cloaking, and making them integrated hurts no one. If you have an actual argument against cloaks, I'd like to hear it... but I'm just going to keep pointing to every ship that can cloak, and still has 5 tactical slots.
Hell, the Fleet Mogh has literally identical stats to the Fleet Avenger, except it also has its built-in cloak. How can you still argue that cloaks should cost something?
Ignoring the fact the Defiant already loses a console slot if it cloaks.
(All cloaking KDF ships in-fact have the normal amount of console slots)
Ignoring the lack of the +10% shield mod for the Fleet version.
(All KDF Fleet grade ships see a shield mod bonus)
Ignoring the suboptimal BOff stations.
(Meanwhile the primer KDF ambush-cloak vessels have pure universal stations)
Amusingly, you don't see the same level of hostility and assault against KDF proposals by 'diehard' Fed fans. Anytime KDF improvements are mentioned, it is a fairly civil discussion on all sides. Fed improvement requests are savagely attacked in petty vengeance, akin to the Horde>Alliance disparity discussions in Cataclysm.
Self-serving elitism at it's finest. No wonder I don't enjoy this game or its community anymore...