Escorts are not getting a new buff/ability like the Cruiser Commands and 2nd Deflector for Sci Vessels. The reason those new features were introduced was to help bring Cruisers & Sci Vessels into comparable usefulness with Escorts.
Remember, it wasn't long ago that this game was called "Escorts Online."
Also, unless Cryptic introduces some new Defiant 2 piece console bonus (Phaser Quad Cannons + Cloaking Device Console, both from C-Store Defiants), I would make it either of these 3:
OPTION B
"Defiant-Class Ablative Armor" ability: Similar to the Intrepid's Ablative Generator Console, but since this is a set bonus ability, I would have it do the same but weaker total resists.
OPTION C
+5% Defense Bonus
Here's hoping they do option A... Because then I can use that bonus on either my Dreadnaught, Avenger OR Defiant... :eek:
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Defiant don't need innate battlecloak or any additional bonus. The pitfall of whining to buff an already powerful ship so that you can fly it is it's zero sum, everyone else will get it. You just end up with less selection and no advantage over anyone else.
Give Aquarius innate battlecloak... and it still wouldn't be op at all. Now this is balance.
The thread ended up as I expected, the same thing you get anytime you are asking for Starfleet quality-of-life improvements, KDF zealots just troll and insult your intelligence in an inarticulate manner. They so very much loathe this ship even still, despite the Raider buffs on the horizon, something they clamored for. Though when KDF ask for something, it is just and they deserve it, when Fed asks for something, it's just 'whining'.
Ignoring the fact the Defiant already loses a console slot if it cloaks. (All cloaking KDF ships in-fact have the normal amount of console slots)
Ignoring the lack of the +10% shield mod for the Fleet version. (All KDF Fleet grade ships see a shield mod bonus)
Ignoring the suboptimal BOff stations. (Meanwhile the primer KDF ambush-cloak vessels have pure universal stations)
Amusingly, you don't see the same level of hostility and assault against KDF proposals by 'diehard' Fed fans. Anytime KDF improvements are mentioned, it is a fairly civil discussion on all sides. Fed improvement requests are savagely attacked in petty vengeance, akin to the Horde>Alliance disparity discussions in Cataclysm.
Self-serving elitism at it's finest. No wonder I don't enjoy this game or its community anymore...
As for your points:
1. The Federation has never been a Cloak-inherent faction. NEVER had been in Star Trek. Not even past Star Trek games have gone that route. From the games of the 90's and into Starfleet Command, Bridge Commander, etc. The Cloak technology will come at a cost to the few Fed ships in STO that can do it. Besides, if you put the Cloak onto the Defiant or Failaxy-X, you reap the benefits of Cloaks and can do things practically no other Fed vessels can do. That is a tactical advantage and a luxury that, again, no other Fed vessels can do.
2. See my answer for Point 1. In addition, Mr Completely MisInformed One, KDF Non-Fleet Raptors (our Escorts) had a .83 shield mod, while the Defiant has .9. The Fleet Raptors got upgraded to... wait a second now... for the suspense... .92. Even our still ONLY endgame C-Store Escort/Destroyer, the Guramba, has a .9 shield mod, and it doesn't have Cloaks at all.
3. The Defiant only has suboptimal BOFF stations for fools that don't know how to make the most of it. There's others that are very proficient in making the most of the Defiant in PVE and PVP. Fly her aggressively, fly her FAST (put some Engine Power for goodness' sake), take advantage of the Cloak. Fast flying and knowing when and where you should, and shouldn't be are the keys in flying Lt ENG only Escorts like the Defiant and Fleet Prometheus.
Also, the BOPs have paid for their flexibility. The lowest hull & shield mods, only Shuttles are lower... 11 total BOFF skill slots instead of 12, despite EVERYONE else having some Universal Stations and pay no price for the flexibility. The Fleet Norgh can do 12, but sacrifices a Console slot despite being a Fleet ship.
NONE, and I say, again, NONE of the KDF Escorts, Destroyers, BOPs have 5 TAC Consoles. Absolutely NONE. The Feds have had at least 2 for years now, and the newest additions, the Romulans, have 4.
Feds keep talking about the benefits of the BOP, but when it comes down to playing with the design compromises that the BOP have, you guys wimp out.
And don't talk like the Feds are saintly and ****. For the vast majority of STO's existence, it's inarguable that the Feds had gotten the most development time by the devs. When the KDF playerbase asked for attention and expansion, I could take what you generally said and flip Fed & KDF around, and that's what we generally got from the Feds. Or better yet, we're told we shouldn't get any attention since we were only "16%" of the playerbase. Please, take your Holy Attitude and stuff it in a hole in the ground like an Ostrich.
Cloak capable (as opposed to all) Federation vessels should have an innate cloak, rather than a console. Period. There is no logical reason for them not to have it.
However, battle cloaks should remain Romulan fare. I firmly believe that neither Starfleet or the KDF should have this feature in the game.
And yes, I'm aware that Birds of Prey have battle cloaks. But that feature needs to be removed in favor of buffed stats for BoPs and standard cloak.
Cloak capable (as opposed to all) Federation vessels should have an innate cloak, rather than a console. Period. There is no logical reason for them not to have it.
The logical reason is for PWE to sell more ships. It's not a slight against you, the chosen faction. You need to buy the Retrofit to get the console for your Fleet Retrofit. And, being the cash cow faction for PWE, that's how it will be.
You got the Atrox & Armitage. It's not like PWE is ignoring your faction. The whole idea that PWE isn't giving you your fair shake is just too funny.
Just buy more Zen, unlock more boxes. That's what Starfleet is there for.
As for taking Battle cloaks off of BoPs, how about taking Escorts away from Starfleet? Defiant should be a 3/3 weapon slot science/scout ship! I thought you guys were the good guys! Why so militaristic? That's so un-Roddenberry!
Cloak capable (as opposed to all) Federation vessels should have an innate cloak, rather than a console. Period. There is no logical reason for them not to have it.
Innate cloaks yes, as it is a trivial and archaic relic of discarded measures of balance. Starfleet Battlecloaks, no. Leave the crutches out there for those who need them.
Fleet version of Defiant needs an upgrade, to atleast bring it in line with Fleet Ar'kif.
From BOFF stations to canon romulan battlecloak.
Battlecloak can be a console that is 2 set with quad phasers. same stats as Ar'kif 2 part set, only for phasers,
and Universal Ensign so it is possible to remove 3rd tac station.
They can even add a Defiant Ablative armor from DS9(not same armor as intrepid) and make it 3part set.
Same goes for Fleet MVAE and Fleet Intrepid.
Needs 2 part sets, needs removal of 3rd tac BOFF, and Intrepid needs BOFF seating as Aventine(recon Vesta), because now it has no tactical abilities. Intrepid is NOT a science vessel like Nova Class for example.
For example - Intrepid 2 part set
-armor
-some strong transphasic torpedo
both unique to the intrepid
MVAE 2 part set
-Multi vector module
-unique warp core(in canon it could engage in combat while at warp) or some unique phaser Dual beam bank or a Photonic commander that would have passive reduced recharge time for BOFF skills
Defiant 2 part set
(integrated Battlecloak)
-Quad phasers
-Ablative Armor
or 3 part set
with battlecloak console
This changes are needed, because as it is, 3 of most powerful canon ships are now just mediocre and unsuited for combat compared to lobi ships and new 3 ship sets like Vesta and kumari.
Cloak capable (as opposed to all) Federation vessels should have an innate cloak, rather than a console. Period. There is no logical reason for them not to have it.
However, battle cloaks should remain Romulan fare. I firmly believe that neither Starfleet or the KDF should have this feature in the game.
And yes, I'm aware that Birds of Prey have battle cloaks. But that feature needs to be removed in favor of buffed stats for BoPs and standard cloak.
I disagree with the romulans should get battle cloaks. If anybody deserves battle cloaks across the board, it should be klingon. why? Cause romulans get singularity powers which is basically 1-5 free sci powers ontop of normal boff powers. Sorry no, giving them battle cloak was a BAD IDEA.
Far as the feds getting integrated cloaks, flatly against it. Sorry more people whine that "hey they have this, i want it too!" Well you"re slowly turning this game into cookie cutter. Same ships everwhere, just different skins. THAT GETS BORING. Rather eveybody have diverse powers that offset eachother, not the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
That is why I say no to inegrated cloaks for feds. You want that cloak, a slot you will give up since it's not standard issue kit like roms or klingons.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
So... because Cryptic dropped the ball on KDF for a couple years, the FEDs can't have balanced cloaking devices? That's not "balance", that's "petty revenge" against players that aren't responsible for Cryptic's design choices.
Why do you keep saying the Defiant should lose a tac console? Both the KDF and the Roms have 5-tac console ships with integrated cloaks (again, free of balance cost -- cloaks are a freebie for everybody but Feds). The Defiant shouldn't have to lose anything. That's my entire point.
The 5 console BortasQu has gimped integrated cloaking, and its the only 5 taccon KDF vessel we have in service.
I think the defiant needs a battle cloak console, but make the ship have 11 consoles, and have it fire while cloaked with it's shields are up too. Also since we are asking for un-necessary upgrades to a great ship already, lets give it 5 fore weapons, naw make that 6 fore weapons, oo and another special console for no weapons drain, but since it's another console lets make it a 12 console ship..
if the KDF complains let just get them a new skin for one of those low level bops..
I think the defiant needs a battle cloak console, but make the ship have 11 consoles, and have it fire while cloaked with it's shields are up too. Also since we are asking for un-necessary upgrades to a great ship already, lets give it 5 fore weapons, naw make that 6 fore weapons, oo and another special console for no weapons drain, but since it's another console lets make it a 12 console ship..
You forgot mentioning adding a hangar bay with elite Yellowstones.....nah, scratch that - a hangar bay that can launch frigates, preferably Defiants.
It deserves nothing extra in cloak ability.
The feds already have the best cloak snooping ingame.
I agree with this. As long as feds have exclusive access to TDF they should not get any integrated cloaking. But if they ever lose TDF exclusivity then they should definitely get integrated cloaking on many many ships as a way to compensate.
I agree with this. As long as feds have exclusive access to TDF they should not get any integrated cloaking. But if they ever lose TDF exclusivity then they should definitely get integrated cloaking on many many ships as a way to compensate.
I can agree to the TPF stipulation only if the KDF vessels that do have regular integrated cloaking are unhandicapped since the fed cloak handicap is the loss of console, and to remove it as such would leave a disparity.
I agree with this. As long as feds have exclusive access to TDF they should not get any integrated cloaking. But if they ever lose TDF exclusivity then they should definitely get integrated cloaking on many many ships as a way to compensate.
The TDF should not be part of any exchnage. In fact, there need to be no more of the dumbass exchanges of consoles between the factions, there's suposed to be some diversity.
The Romulan trademark should be the optimal cloak and singularity abilites.
The KDF trademark should be the half-arsed cloak, strong battlecruisers and things like the new flanking mechanics that fall within the faction's lore.
The Federation trademark should be shields, stealth snooping and unique strong science ships.
A little diversity, because as talonxv said - it could get very boring very fast otherwise.
The TDF should not be part of any exchnage. In fact, there need to be no more of the dumbass exchanges of consoles between the factions, there's suposed to be some diversity.
The Romulan trademark should be the optimal cloak and singularity abilites.
The KDF trademark should be the half-arsed cloak, strong battlecruisers and things like the new flanking mechanics that fall within the faction's lore.
The Federation trademark should be shields, stealth snooping and unique strong science ships.
A little diversity, because as talonxv said - it could get very boring very fast otherwise.
I agree. My TDF idea was just an if/when consent in the event of it happening. I actually have no issue with the status quo.
I'm sorry but you don't understand, you see I want my one captain to be able to do everything from one, preferably free ship, that has insta-grind capability. Plus it needs to be able to one shot everything including when I miss since my attacks cause spatial disturbances.
After all that i'll complain that the game is to easy, until I try pvp and get hit by a similar attack and I request a nerf to all other captains cause they are OP.
The TDF should not be part of any exchnage. In fact, there need to be no more of the dumbass exchanges of consoles between the factions, there's suposed to be some diversity.
The Romulan trademark should be the optimal cloak and singularity abilites.
The KDF trademark should be the half-arsed cloak, strong battlecruisers and things like the new flanking mechanics that fall within the faction's lore.
The Federation trademark should be shields, stealth snooping and unique strong science ships.
A little diversity, because as talonxv said - it could get very boring very fast otherwise.
Well I keep harping on that because one of the first MMO's I ever really got into was Battlestar Galactica online. And good god, didn't matter if you played cylon or colonial. Everything was the same, just a different cutout. It was so utterly boring it wasn't even funny.
That's what I like mostly about STO. Many things are the same, but on the other hand many things are not. Though I don't quite think they got everything right, but who does. This is the biggest reason why I will continue to say no to having the Defiant or any other fed ship get a built in cloak let alone a battle cloak.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
You kdf-only ppl are seriously taking things personally. Maybe because you are in minority.
Speaking from that personal, minority PoW, I feel that ships need to be as similar to canon as possible.
I would even go that far to forbid putting any kind of weapon on any kind of ship.
Scaling weapon power according to ship type. For example, a shuttle, a warbird, a defiant, aquarius, BoP. whatever, that couldn't equip same beam arrays that cruisers and dreadnoughts can.
Same goes for dual heavy cannons and dual cannons. Ships are designed specifically to support unique kind of weapon and weapon power distribution system.
Speaking of beam arrays, only ships with beam arrays in Star Trek are federation ones.
All others have single(dual) beam banks with limited arcs.
Some of you want balance between factions and at the same time complain about how all ships are just skins. WTF.
The point of ship classes in space/naval warfare is in unique role, weapons, size, speed, crew. not in do-it-all, kill-everything-with-everything ships.
Logical continuation of that is that a BoPs, Defiants, T'Varos etc. shouldn't be able to kill(alone) a Galaxy, Galor, Scimitar, Jem Dread etc. just like a rubber assault boat cannot destroy an aircraft carrier.
Proportions in game are way off. Defiant for example is 50 meters long/5decks high compared to Sovereign that is 800 meters long/35 decks high.
Simple math tells us that 112 Defiants can fit in space of 1(one) Sovereign.
BoP, JHAS and T'varo are even way smaller and less powerful then Defiant
Yet in STO , a skilled player can kill 112 times(or more) larger ship in 1 shot. yep, that is the same as if a 9mm bullet could destroy an M1 Abrams tank.
And EVERYBODY can fit ANY type of weapon on ANY type of ship.
If that is not over the top balance i dont know what is.
Escorts/small warbirds/raiders shouldn't be able to destroy cruisers and dreadnoughts at all except if ramming or destroying their warp core by some clever flying and/or group tactics, strength in numbers.
But we have concluded that this game has limited space fight game engine and that any ship can kill any ship.
So, it strives for balance, even if it's just a linear balance beyond ridiculous with ships being faster or slower flying skins.
So, balance it more. Follow the power creep. Balance the Fleet Defiant, MVAE and Intrepid as well, or start unique buffing/nerfing to make it more simulation like.
There is no third option.
Power creep law dictates that every new released ship must be stronger then old one, else there is no incentive to buy it or logical reason of its existence
So, buffing antique klingon raiders is .. logical?
And not buffing Defiant, MVAE etc is .. also logical?
Can't be both. either higher balance(arcade-skins) or high imbalance(simulation-roles), and yet Cryptic is trying to do both, and that is the sole reason for ppl not being satisfied and ppl wanting to do same (but stronger) stuff in any new/reworked ship with only differentiation in player style/decision.
Personally I enjoy space PvP and some harder space PvE in this game. but it can be better,
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better, just by deciding where to go, and how it should.., or rather How it CAN look like.
Should it look like a Shuttle shooting a Galaxy, both equipped with same alien beam arrays, or like a, say, Defiant decloak shooting a Galaxy class with powerful Quad Cannons , and Galaxy shooting back at defiant with Heavy Phaser Beam Array while defiant tries to avoid being hit.
So, buffing antique klingon raiders is .. logical?
And not buffing Defiant, MVAE etc is .. also logical?
Yes, on both accounts.
I'll tell you why - buffing the raiders is logical because they're the weakest ship class in the game, so logically they were the first to suffer the passive power creep that Cryptic lets run rampant throughout STO.
A fleet BoP has a whooping 24k hull and 0.88 shield mod. They also don't get fleet module discounts because there's only 1 C-Store BoP - the B'rel and that one has a whooping 21k hull and 0.8 shield mod. No Bird of Prey has 5 tactical consoles.
Now the Fleet Defiant has 33k hull and 0.9 shield mod. It has 5 tac.consoles and it has the best turn rate/inertia ratio of any C-Store or fleet escort or destroyer in the game. It doesn't really need anything....well not yet at least, maybe if this insane power creep goes on for a year it would need improvements as well.
The only thing I'd agree that the Defiant could get is the regular fleet boost to shield mod, taking it to 0.99 on the fleet variant. But that's about it.
But this comparison is all wrong anyway. The Defiant is the counterpart of a Raptor, not a BoP. The BoP is a unique class. The Defiant is currently flat out better than any Raptor availible to the KDF. There is no 5 tac.consoles Raptor, the axis is borked on the Raptors and there is no C-Store Raptor.
And I'm seriously missing what's wrong with the MVAE besides standard complaining for the sake of complaining, that ship is perfectly fine as it is.
Nice touch on the klingon side if it is not to much to ask jam jams could you consider upgrading the Defiant classes, because I believe a lot of Feds who are flying these ships still asked to integrate the cloak console and a battle cloak, also what we would love is a bit more hit points to the refit and the fleet version of the defiant classes.
The Defiant's really nothing like a raider. It's far more akin to a Raptor on the KDF side. I really don't see the devs giving the Defiant a battle cloak. As for more HPs, I don't know, the fleet Defiant already has hull a bit stronger than the escort classification lends itself to. But that's just a whole tug of war debate waiting to happen.
Defiant users may set their thoughts here...
I've used the T4 version on over half my characters levelling up. Does that make me a Defiant user?
To be completely honest, the last thing the Defiant and its fleet version need it to be tweaked. The ship is, in my opinion, the pinnacle of the Fed Escort. It can dish out fire like nothing else, it can take a serious beating in the hands of an experienced player, and it maneuvers like no other. It doesn't need a buff, and I fear that if they tried to tweak stats the only thing that would come out in the end would be a nerf.
The only Defiant that needs a buff is the missing fleets shield modifier. Otherwise the Defiant class is spot on.
i agree with this Defiant is in a good place and my personal fave fed escort only reason im not using her atm is that i want to use something else but she was my first escort and my best.
It can dish out fire like nothing else, it can take a serious beating in the hands of an experienced player, and it maneuvers like no other.
Well its very good at spike damage certainly, but it is awful at survivability and the stats put the handling at the low end of the performance class. If you dont mind dying a lot you can run around with no defenses and try to pop the other guys as fast as possible, but if score matters and then the only way to get anything out of it without giving up kills to the other team is to run around cloaked all the time.
Comments
Here's hoping they do option A... Because then I can use that bonus on either my Dreadnaught, Avenger OR Defiant...
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
Give Aquarius innate battlecloak... and it still wouldn't be op at all. Now this is balance.
As for your points:
1. The Federation has never been a Cloak-inherent faction. NEVER had been in Star Trek. Not even past Star Trek games have gone that route. From the games of the 90's and into Starfleet Command, Bridge Commander, etc. The Cloak technology will come at a cost to the few Fed ships in STO that can do it. Besides, if you put the Cloak onto the Defiant or Failaxy-X, you reap the benefits of Cloaks and can do things practically no other Fed vessels can do. That is a tactical advantage and a luxury that, again, no other Fed vessels can do.
2. See my answer for Point 1. In addition, Mr Completely MisInformed One, KDF Non-Fleet Raptors (our Escorts) had a .83 shield mod, while the Defiant has .9. The Fleet Raptors got upgraded to... wait a second now... for the suspense... .92. Even our still ONLY endgame C-Store Escort/Destroyer, the Guramba, has a .9 shield mod, and it doesn't have Cloaks at all.
3. The Defiant only has suboptimal BOFF stations for fools that don't know how to make the most of it. There's others that are very proficient in making the most of the Defiant in PVE and PVP. Fly her aggressively, fly her FAST (put some Engine Power for goodness' sake), take advantage of the Cloak. Fast flying and knowing when and where you should, and shouldn't be are the keys in flying Lt ENG only Escorts like the Defiant and Fleet Prometheus.
Also, the BOPs have paid for their flexibility. The lowest hull & shield mods, only Shuttles are lower... 11 total BOFF skill slots instead of 12, despite EVERYONE else having some Universal Stations and pay no price for the flexibility. The Fleet Norgh can do 12, but sacrifices a Console slot despite being a Fleet ship.
NONE, and I say, again, NONE of the KDF Escorts, Destroyers, BOPs have 5 TAC Consoles. Absolutely NONE. The Feds have had at least 2 for years now, and the newest additions, the Romulans, have 4.
Feds keep talking about the benefits of the BOP, but when it comes down to playing with the design compromises that the BOP have, you guys wimp out.
And don't talk like the Feds are saintly and ****. For the vast majority of STO's existence, it's inarguable that the Feds had gotten the most development time by the devs. When the KDF playerbase asked for attention and expansion, I could take what you generally said and flip Fed & KDF around, and that's what we generally got from the Feds. Or better yet, we're told we shouldn't get any attention since we were only "16%" of the playerbase. Please, take your Holy Attitude and stuff it in a hole in the ground like an Ostrich.
:rolleyes:
However, battle cloaks should remain Romulan fare. I firmly believe that neither Starfleet or the KDF should have this feature in the game.
And yes, I'm aware that Birds of Prey have battle cloaks. But that feature needs to be removed in favor of buffed stats for BoPs and standard cloak.
The logical reason is for PWE to sell more ships. It's not a slight against you, the chosen faction. You need to buy the Retrofit to get the console for your Fleet Retrofit. And, being the cash cow faction for PWE, that's how it will be.
You got the Atrox & Armitage. It's not like PWE is ignoring your faction. The whole idea that PWE isn't giving you your fair shake is just too funny.
Just buy more Zen, unlock more boxes. That's what Starfleet is there for.
As for taking Battle cloaks off of BoPs, how about taking Escorts away from Starfleet? Defiant should be a 3/3 weapon slot science/scout ship! I thought you guys were the good guys! Why so militaristic? That's so un-Roddenberry!
IKS Korrasami (Fleet B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit T5-U)
Innate cloaks yes, as it is a trivial and archaic relic of discarded measures of balance. Starfleet Battlecloaks, no. Leave the crutches out there for those who need them.
Such a response. First paragraph of my initial post stands.
Point also missed entirely even with you bringing up specs, with the Fleet Defiant shield mod. Fleet Raiders' shield mods- .92 vs Fleet Tact-Escort shield mod- .9
But I've wasted more than enough time on rabid KDF fan boys...
From BOFF stations to canon romulan battlecloak.
Battlecloak can be a console that is 2 set with quad phasers. same stats as Ar'kif 2 part set, only for phasers,
and Universal Ensign so it is possible to remove 3rd tac station.
They can even add a Defiant Ablative armor from DS9(not same armor as intrepid) and make it 3part set.
Same goes for Fleet MVAE and Fleet Intrepid.
Needs 2 part sets, needs removal of 3rd tac BOFF, and Intrepid needs BOFF seating as Aventine(recon Vesta), because now it has no tactical abilities. Intrepid is NOT a science vessel like Nova Class for example.
For example - Intrepid 2 part set
-armor
-some strong transphasic torpedo
both unique to the intrepid
MVAE 2 part set
-Multi vector module
-unique warp core(in canon it could engage in combat while at warp) or some unique phaser Dual beam bank or a Photonic commander that would have passive reduced recharge time for BOFF skills
Defiant 2 part set
(integrated Battlecloak)
-Quad phasers
-Ablative Armor
or 3 part set
with battlecloak console
This changes are needed, because as it is, 3 of most powerful canon ships are now just mediocre and unsuited for combat compared to lobi ships and new 3 ship sets like Vesta and kumari.
Super SpecialStar Trek Online Review
SpecialTemporal PUG 100K DPS Build
We are Travelers
Does it deserve the integrated cloak and finally a raised shield mod?
In comparison to comparable Warbirds - Yes
In comparison to Raptors - No
Solution:
Improve the fleet version's shield mod (and no battle cloak), create a 5 Tac-console raptor in return.
Everyone is happy and we can continue having fun with this nice game.
The feds already have the best cloak snooping ingame.
R.I.P
I disagree with the romulans should get battle cloaks. If anybody deserves battle cloaks across the board, it should be klingon. why? Cause romulans get singularity powers which is basically 1-5 free sci powers ontop of normal boff powers. Sorry no, giving them battle cloak was a BAD IDEA.
Far as the feds getting integrated cloaks, flatly against it. Sorry more people whine that "hey they have this, i want it too!" Well you"re slowly turning this game into cookie cutter. Same ships everwhere, just different skins. THAT GETS BORING. Rather eveybody have diverse powers that offset eachother, not the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN.
That is why I say no to inegrated cloaks for feds. You want that cloak, a slot you will give up since it's not standard issue kit like roms or klingons.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
The 5 console BortasQu has gimped integrated cloaking, and its the only 5 taccon KDF vessel we have in service.
R.I.P
The Defiant deserves nothing but the missing shield buff for the fleet version. feds cloaking in general is fine and balanced to how the game works.
R.I.P
if the KDF complains let just get them a new skin for one of those low level bops..
You forgot mentioning adding a hangar bay with elite Yellowstones.....nah, scratch that - a hangar bay that can launch frigates, preferably Defiants.
I agree with this. As long as feds have exclusive access to TDF they should not get any integrated cloaking. But if they ever lose TDF exclusivity then they should definitely get integrated cloaking on many many ships as a way to compensate.
I can agree to the TPF stipulation only if the KDF vessels that do have regular integrated cloaking are unhandicapped since the fed cloak handicap is the loss of console, and to remove it as such would leave a disparity.
R.I.P
The TDF should not be part of any exchnage. In fact, there need to be no more of the dumbass exchanges of consoles between the factions, there's suposed to be some diversity.
The Romulan trademark should be the optimal cloak and singularity abilites.
The KDF trademark should be the half-arsed cloak, strong battlecruisers and things like the new flanking mechanics that fall within the faction's lore.
The Federation trademark should be shields, stealth snooping and unique strong science ships.
A little diversity, because as talonxv said - it could get very boring very fast otherwise.
I agree. My TDF idea was just an if/when consent in the event of it happening. I actually have no issue with the status quo.
R.I.P
After all that i'll complain that the game is to easy, until I try pvp and get hit by a similar attack and I request a nerf to all other captains cause they are OP.
Well I keep harping on that because one of the first MMO's I ever really got into was Battlestar Galactica online. And good god, didn't matter if you played cylon or colonial. Everything was the same, just a different cutout. It was so utterly boring it wasn't even funny.
That's what I like mostly about STO. Many things are the same, but on the other hand many things are not. Though I don't quite think they got everything right, but who does. This is the biggest reason why I will continue to say no to having the Defiant or any other fed ship get a built in cloak let alone a battle cloak.
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Speaking from that personal, minority PoW, I feel that ships need to be as similar to canon as possible.
I would even go that far to forbid putting any kind of weapon on any kind of ship.
Scaling weapon power according to ship type. For example, a shuttle, a warbird, a defiant, aquarius, BoP. whatever, that couldn't equip same beam arrays that cruisers and dreadnoughts can.
Same goes for dual heavy cannons and dual cannons. Ships are designed specifically to support unique kind of weapon and weapon power distribution system.
Speaking of beam arrays, only ships with beam arrays in Star Trek are federation ones.
All others have single(dual) beam banks with limited arcs.
Some of you want balance between factions and at the same time complain about how all ships are just skins. WTF.
The point of ship classes in space/naval warfare is in unique role, weapons, size, speed, crew. not in do-it-all, kill-everything-with-everything ships.
Logical continuation of that is that a BoPs, Defiants, T'Varos etc. shouldn't be able to kill(alone) a Galaxy, Galor, Scimitar, Jem Dread etc. just like a rubber assault boat cannot destroy an aircraft carrier.
Proportions in game are way off. Defiant for example is 50 meters long/5decks high compared to Sovereign that is 800 meters long/35 decks high.
Simple math tells us that 112 Defiants can fit in space of 1(one) Sovereign.
BoP, JHAS and T'varo are even way smaller and less powerful then Defiant
Yet in STO , a skilled player can kill 112 times(or more) larger ship in 1 shot. yep, that is the same as if a 9mm bullet could destroy an M1 Abrams tank.
And EVERYBODY can fit ANY type of weapon on ANY type of ship.
If that is not over the top balance i dont know what is.
Escorts/small warbirds/raiders shouldn't be able to destroy cruisers and dreadnoughts at all except if ramming or destroying their warp core by some clever flying and/or group tactics, strength in numbers.
But we have concluded that this game has limited space fight game engine and that any ship can kill any ship.
So, it strives for balance, even if it's just a linear balance beyond ridiculous with ships being faster or slower flying skins.
So, balance it more. Follow the power creep. Balance the Fleet Defiant, MVAE and Intrepid as well, or start unique buffing/nerfing to make it more simulation like.
There is no third option.
Power creep law dictates that every new released ship must be stronger then old one, else there is no incentive to buy it or logical reason of its existence
So, buffing antique klingon raiders is .. logical?
And not buffing Defiant, MVAE etc is .. also logical?
Can't be both. either higher balance(arcade-skins) or high imbalance(simulation-roles), and yet Cryptic is trying to do both, and that is the sole reason for ppl not being satisfied and ppl wanting to do same (but stronger) stuff in any new/reworked ship with only differentiation in player style/decision.
Personally I enjoy space PvP and some harder space PvE in this game. but it can be better,
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better, just by deciding where to go, and how it should.., or rather How it CAN look like.
Should it look like a Shuttle shooting a Galaxy, both equipped with same alien beam arrays, or like a, say, Defiant decloak shooting a Galaxy class with powerful Quad Cannons , and Galaxy shooting back at defiant with Heavy Phaser Beam Array while defiant tries to avoid being hit.
What is it? How should it look like?
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Yes, on both accounts.
I'll tell you why - buffing the raiders is logical because they're the weakest ship class in the game, so logically they were the first to suffer the passive power creep that Cryptic lets run rampant throughout STO.
A fleet BoP has a whooping 24k hull and 0.88 shield mod. They also don't get fleet module discounts because there's only 1 C-Store BoP - the B'rel and that one has a whooping 21k hull and 0.8 shield mod. No Bird of Prey has 5 tactical consoles.
Now the Fleet Defiant has 33k hull and 0.9 shield mod. It has 5 tac.consoles and it has the best turn rate/inertia ratio of any C-Store or fleet escort or destroyer in the game. It doesn't really need anything....well not yet at least, maybe if this insane power creep goes on for a year it would need improvements as well.
The only thing I'd agree that the Defiant could get is the regular fleet boost to shield mod, taking it to 0.99 on the fleet variant. But that's about it.
But this comparison is all wrong anyway. The Defiant is the counterpart of a Raptor, not a BoP. The BoP is a unique class. The Defiant is currently flat out better than any Raptor availible to the KDF. There is no 5 tac.consoles Raptor, the axis is borked on the Raptors and there is no C-Store Raptor.
And I'm seriously missing what's wrong with the MVAE besides standard complaining for the sake of complaining, that ship is perfectly fine as it is.
The Defiant's really nothing like a raider. It's far more akin to a Raptor on the KDF side. I really don't see the devs giving the Defiant a battle cloak. As for more HPs, I don't know, the fleet Defiant already has hull a bit stronger than the escort classification lends itself to. But that's just a whole tug of war debate waiting to happen.
I've used the T4 version on over half my characters levelling up. Does that make me a Defiant user?
Slap a Hangar Bay on it. Call it a day!
i agree with this Defiant is in a good place and my personal fave fed escort only reason im not using her atm is that i want to use something else but she was my first escort and my best.