I thought TACs in cruisers were the best DPS in the game.
Why else would I see redshirts flying big-TRIBBLE ships and a full load of -threat consoles.
dont like dragging threat if it can be helped as a tac in a fleet excel. while the ship can tank well enough, even a small fleet is a bit much even with fleet shielding and more power to shields and powers. most of my skills is directed at dps, im a long way from being able to call the excelsior out in a dps match, but in pve runs though, frigates and cruisers go down with remarkable speed in a beam boat. thats without fleet weapons and fleet consoles.
if escorts are not gonna be down on the level, then increase the beam weapons damage, all types to the same level of escorts. that way escort captains 'require' the help of others instead of thinking themselves invincible. sisko had one of the most heavily armed ships in the quadrant and even a few jem'hadar bug ships had his ship on the run, escorts are meant to be dps monsters but very fragile and not meant to be on their own.
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If you are in an escort, and you are being out-DPS'ed by a cruiser, you are a bad starship captain and you should feel bad.
Disagree. Spamming FAW might log a lot of DPS, but it doesn't necessarily translate into kills. Meanwhile, an escort might score lowere DPS by focusing fire on something that isn't a pet or a defenseless NPC object, but also actually advancing the mission by destroying a valuable target.
Love how people are saying: "cruisers out DPS escorts by 50k+ oh by the way you MUST use a2b + dem + Mario to do it"
You cant say beam arrays out damage cannons by using a borderline exploit combo. What about the rest of the time? What about beam arrays vs cannons without doffs?
Of course there is a way to improve escorts. By introducing a Battle Command mechanic.
They could take away any bonus attached to DHCs and leave them all "simple".
Add a Battle command stance
- let us say "Overcharge" -> adds 20% damage to energy weapons
- let us say "Striker" -> adds 20% Accuracy to energy weapons
- let us say "Weapons Specialist" -> adds 5% chance to deactivate subsystems for 1s
Benefits:
- Escorts would get a fresh new mechanic and wouldn't be left out
- A player could decide to do more "raw damage" or wanting to rely on accuracy or to be kind of a support damage dealer by deactivating enemy subsystems.
I would gladly give up the current DHCs for such fresh improvements TBH...
The recent changes to cruisers and science ships have been made because this game was 'Escorts Online'. If they buff the escorts again nothing will be acomplished besides creating another cycle of power creep and bring us back to 'Escorts Online' and discussing how can cruisers and science vessels be enhanced to compete. Deja vu, anyone?
Therefore, no further special buffs for escorts are necessary nor is their future scary as the OP claims in the title.
Toomy way of thinking escorts are already nerfed. let me explain.. I'm a tac captain so i dont know from engineering or science builds, but as a tac captain the first thing i want to look at is survivability: Whats the ships total Hull defense. You can have 20000 dps available to you but if you've only got a 10000 hull, your not really going to ever reach optimal effect.You'll be spending all your time waiting to respawn. And so it is tht escorts usually have a much lower survivability than cruisers. They charge in and take their shot and hope to avoid getting hit..Dont get me wrong, I love escorts, but they arent tanks and unless they increase Hull defense, they equally balanced with the heavy cruisers..
I agree. I play escort (not professionally) and i love the new things to cruisers and science ships. Escort have dual heavy. No need for more.
Trust me,some cruisers have Dual heavies as well..What I think they should do is allow cannon on beam boats like the fed cruisers.. People cry about my ship being OP, but if they give cruisers cannons, then everyone will be equal.
Trust me,some cruisers have Dual heavies as well..What I think they should do is allow cannon on beam boats like the fed cruisers.. People cry about my ship being OP, but if they give cruisers cannons, then everyone will be equal.
....what? You're not even making any sense. Allow cannon on beam boats? And giving cruisers the ability to equip DUAL CANNONS (which is what I assume you're trying to convey) won't do TRIBBLE because cruisers don't have the agility to use them effectively.
If escorts had some sort of "cruiser" command that increased the arc of dcs/dhcs...it would go a long way for escorts to compete with beam dps without actually increasing the damage.
How about the ability to turn on a dime, dole out insane DPS with the heaviest hitting weapons in the game, most Tactical BOFF seats, and enough tankiness to to survive pretty much any STF there is on their own?
How about the ability to turn on a dime, dole out insane DPS with the heaviest hitting weapons in the game, most Tactical BOFF seats, and enough tankiness to to survive pretty much any STF there is on their own?
Oh wait...Escorts already have all that...
And using cannons means it all falls on its face when compared to beams.
Yes yes. Why not go beams on an escort?
Meh, those that care that much will roll a rom and fly a schimitar
Escorts are obsolete in pvp because of warbirds and the two tiny nonsense god ships of their class (JHAS and the new hirogen escort which still aren't on par with warbirds vapers).
And in pve beam boats shined for more than a year already.
I'm a pvp player and dont use escorts/raptors anymore because unless you have one of the two p2w ships there is no reason to fly one. BoPs are in the same case because warbirds vastly outshine them.
And sci ships are the last ships in need of a buff...
Another excellent unique boost would be to increase the forward arc radius of weapons...that would be excellent
You know, that might actually be reasonable.
The arcs don't have to get a lot bigger. Small changes would have a considerable effect.
I would be in favor of applying an arc increase to fore cannons in general, and it could boost the arcs of other ships able to mount those weapons, not just escorts.
But escorts and raiders would be able to use that increase more effectively.
I think you're suggesting that the bonus should only apply to escorts, but I would rather see it applied to nearly all fore cannons, with the exceptions of special cannons like the quad cannons and the aux cannons. Still doesn't quite seem fair that only escorts would benefit from arc increases.
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I'm genuinely curious how beams surpass cannons in DPS when beams actually do LESS damage than cannons and somehow drain MORE weapon power. Truly, explain how this works.
I'm genuinely curious how beams surpass cannons in DPS when beams actually do LESS damage than cannons and somehow drain MORE weapon power. Truly, explain how this works.
7 beams+KCB deals more dps than 4 DHCs and 3 turrets.
Plus there are many ways to counter drain (EPS+high power works well on 4s cycles and omega amp proc happens a lot).
PS : i fly a cruiser rather than a raptor because it's sadly much easier and deals more damage.
7 beams+KCB deals more dps than 4 DHCs and 3 turrets.
Plus there are many ways to counter drain (EPS+high power works well on 4s cycles and omega amp proc happens a lot).
I was under the impression most Escorts fit 2 DHCs, 1 DBB (for BO3), and 1 Torp (for HY3) up front, 2 turrets and KCB aft. Isn't that how they instagib big tanky ships?
I'm genuinely curious how beams surpass cannons in DPS when beams actually do LESS damage than cannons and somehow drain MORE weapon power. Truly, explain how this works.
It drive me nuts trying to figure this out...Cannons have more base damage, csv hits 3 targets compared to 2 with bfaw, and a few other things...
What makes beams so much better is that they have a much larger firing arc. Thus they can take advantage of the bfaw extra hit much more often, if csv doesn't have more then one target in its pathetic 45 degree arc, it loses so much.
But with beams. You only need another target in a 270 degree arc...
It's that simple mechanic that pushes beam so far ahead (and yes, so much more of a boost then even overcapping)
I was under the impression most Escorts fit 2 DHCs, 1 DBB (for BO3), and 1 Torp (for HY3) up front, 2 turrets and KCB aft. Isn't that how they instagib big tanky ships?
Dont expect killing a healer in pvp alone unless you are using a pure vape build (romlol). Escorts with that build wont even scratch paint, not sure why you would use torpedoes on it knowing enemy elite shields wont even tickle when BO 3 hit them.
In fact there is no way an escort will beat anything in the same skill range in a duel. Healers wont die, sci ships will spam them to death and faw zombies have 30% uptime on RSP and very high pressure.
Tac cap here. I ran a defiant for a long time. 4 DHC, CRF, turrets, etc.
In pve at least it pails to my assault cruiser (regent) with beam arrays, a2b/doff, plasma if leech with flow, and the energy reduction cruiser toggle. Like, the defiant doesn't even come close. Did I mention the 1/3 more hull and shields as well as dps and better aoe by far?
The question s... what unique ability would Escorts get to mirror comm array commands, secondary deflectors, flanking damage, etc?
That question has been answered. The answer is - none. The reason the cruiser got comm arrays and the science vessels will be getting the second deflector is to make them competitive with the escorts in Cryptic's DPS centered end-game content.
And the 'flaniking bonus', I mean, come on we're talking about the raiders here. They need this to be competitive with carrier BoPs. lol We're talking about a class with 6 weapons, 24k max.hull and no 5 tac.console model - plus the battlecloak is not their special ability anymore.
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dont like dragging threat if it can be helped as a tac in a fleet excel. while the ship can tank well enough, even a small fleet is a bit much even with fleet shielding and more power to shields and powers. most of my skills is directed at dps, im a long way from being able to call the excelsior out in a dps match, but in pve runs though, frigates and cruisers go down with remarkable speed in a beam boat. thats without fleet weapons and fleet consoles.
if escorts are not gonna be down on the level, then increase the beam weapons damage, all types to the same level of escorts. that way escort captains 'require' the help of others instead of thinking themselves invincible. sisko had one of the most heavily armed ships in the quadrant and even a few jem'hadar bug ships had his ship on the run, escorts are meant to be dps monsters but very fragile and not meant to be on their own.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Disagree. Spamming FAW might log a lot of DPS, but it doesn't necessarily translate into kills. Meanwhile, an escort might score lowere DPS by focusing fire on something that isn't a pet or a defenseless NPC object, but also actually advancing the mission by destroying a valuable target.
You cant say beam arrays out damage cannons by using a borderline exploit combo. What about the rest of the time? What about beam arrays vs cannons without doffs?
Show me a log of a ESCORT doing 50k dps in an ise. LINK PLZ
They could take away any bonus attached to DHCs and leave them all "simple".
Add a Battle command stance
- let us say "Overcharge" -> adds 20% damage to energy weapons
- let us say "Striker" -> adds 20% Accuracy to energy weapons
- let us say "Weapons Specialist" -> adds 5% chance to deactivate subsystems for 1s
Benefits:
- Escorts would get a fresh new mechanic and wouldn't be left out
- A player could decide to do more "raw damage" or wanting to rely on accuracy or to be kind of a support damage dealer by deactivating enemy subsystems.
I would gladly give up the current DHCs for such fresh improvements TBH...
Let's use your combo exploit?
Marion? 8 seconds of no drain...Zomg that is leet and cannon don't benefit for that right? Wrong
A2b? Herpa derp...it's just global cooldown and cannons have access to it as well
Your either ignorant or trolling if you think the better cannon pilots could ever catch the good beam ones.
Beams are always firing, the positioning is easier to stay optimized. Cannons lose so much dps due to not keeping 2-3 targets in arc with csv.
Sorcerer01, wake up and get with the program
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Therefore, no further special buffs for escorts are necessary nor is their future scary as the OP claims in the title.
Trust me,some cruisers have Dual heavies as well..What I think they should do is allow cannon on beam boats like the fed cruisers.. People cry about my ship being OP, but if they give cruisers cannons, then everyone will be equal.
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If you think a properly built cannon escort can out dps a properly built whatever. You fly with people that don't know what they are doing.
There is no argument here, beam dps crushes cannon dps. It isn't a case of what you believe. The numbers don't lie.
And bluegeek. Back to my point I was going for before.
Boys=bops (stupid phone auto correct). That point was about the absence of flanking in the OPs post.
The points about the maneuvering bonuses is what I believed to be the escort booster.
Another excellent unique boost would be to increase the forward arc radius of weapons...that would be excellent
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
....what? You're not even making any sense. Allow cannon on beam boats? And giving cruisers the ability to equip DUAL CANNONS (which is what I assume you're trying to convey) won't do TRIBBLE because cruisers don't have the agility to use them effectively.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAtdgiFGIIQ
I think that would be a rather elegant fix tbh
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Oh wait...Escorts already have all that...
And using cannons means it all falls on its face when compared to beams.
Yes yes. Why not go beams on an escort?
Meh, those that care that much will roll a rom and fly a schimitar
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
And in pve beam boats shined for more than a year already.
I'm a pvp player and dont use escorts/raptors anymore because unless you have one of the two p2w ships there is no reason to fly one. BoPs are in the same case because warbirds vastly outshine them.
And sci ships are the last ships in need of a buff...
But who cares about pvp...
You know, that might actually be reasonable.
The arcs don't have to get a lot bigger. Small changes would have a considerable effect.
I would be in favor of applying an arc increase to fore cannons in general, and it could boost the arcs of other ships able to mount those weapons, not just escorts.
But escorts and raiders would be able to use that increase more effectively.
I think you're suggesting that the bonus should only apply to escorts, but I would rather see it applied to nearly all fore cannons, with the exceptions of special cannons like the quad cannons and the aux cannons. Still doesn't quite seem fair that only escorts would benefit from arc increases.
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7 beams+KCB deals more dps than 4 DHCs and 3 turrets.
Plus there are many ways to counter drain (EPS+high power works well on 4s cycles and omega amp proc happens a lot).
PS : i fly a cruiser rather than a raptor because it's sadly much easier and deals more damage.
I was under the impression most Escorts fit 2 DHCs, 1 DBB (for BO3), and 1 Torp (for HY3) up front, 2 turrets and KCB aft. Isn't that how they instagib big tanky ships?
It drive me nuts trying to figure this out...Cannons have more base damage, csv hits 3 targets compared to 2 with bfaw, and a few other things...
What makes beams so much better is that they have a much larger firing arc. Thus they can take advantage of the bfaw extra hit much more often, if csv doesn't have more then one target in its pathetic 45 degree arc, it loses so much.
But with beams. You only need another target in a 270 degree arc...
It's that simple mechanic that pushes beam so far ahead (and yes, so much more of a boost then even overcapping)
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Dont expect killing a healer in pvp alone unless you are using a pure vape build (romlol). Escorts with that build wont even scratch paint, not sure why you would use torpedoes on it knowing enemy elite shields wont even tickle when BO 3 hit them.
In fact there is no way an escort will beat anything in the same skill range in a duel. Healers wont die, sci ships will spam them to death and faw zombies have 30% uptime on RSP and very high pressure.
In pve at least it pails to my assault cruiser (regent) with beam arrays, a2b/doff, plasma if leech with flow, and the energy reduction cruiser toggle. Like, the defiant doesn't even come close. Did I mention the 1/3 more hull and shields as well as dps and better aoe by far?
Lots of bad in this thread.
That question has been answered. The answer is - none. The reason the cruiser got comm arrays and the science vessels will be getting the second deflector is to make them competitive with the escorts in Cryptic's DPS centered end-game content.
And the 'flaniking bonus', I mean, come on we're talking about the raiders here. They need this to be competitive with carrier BoPs. lol