1v1s are no longer relevant in space pvp. Without understanding that, how did you suddenly jump into this min/max vs jack-of-all argument? But if you still insist, we can try and have a little fun over the weekend. Either I humor you, or you humor me.
This is the result of a No BS tournament that took place last saturday. Unless I have forgotten to count, the term 'archaic' does not apply here. Or, it could be you are just throwing around words without really knowing what they mean? And you are right, this does not prove much except that maybe I know what I am talking about. But is it really that much better than your anecdotal 'evidence' of having beaten a space premade? Probably not :rolleyes:
The hieroglyphics on the spreadsheet back up my use of the word archaic.
Why you want to argue about such a minor thing is beyond me. Our reasons are obvious, the skill and trait min/max is being used as a reason to avoid ground. Even worse, it is being taught as if it is a major proven fact. You seem to like to use logical fallacies to advocate your opinions. For instance, stating that 1v1s are no longer relevant in space PvP, and saying that a spreadsheet about irrelevant material proves you know what you are talking about.
@majortiraomega: we have other threads to discuss ground in, no need to keep this poorly titled one going IMO.
So.. "If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten". Or something.
I would be very interested to see the turnout of such a tournament at least, and its long term effects on ground pvp. There could even be a link to some ground pvp guides etc, in the opening post of the tournament thread. Since there seems to be a general lack of understanding of ground. Also give a week or two for people unfamiliar with it to practice and stuff, could be fun.
That's actually a really good way of putting it.
I think that roughly half numbers from what Naz had for his space tournament would work: 8 engineers, 16 sci, 16 tac. With a mix of 1 eng, 2 tac, 2 sci per team (in theory at least), would even out perfectly to 8 teams of 5. Now if it was a more popular thing than I am thinking, great, then more slots could simply be opened up.
I'd try and make a ground tourny happen, but two things I feel would hold me back from it:
1. I don't think my name would be good enough to bring in enough people to actually make it happen. I'm not trying to be egotistical with that statement. Heck, the title of the thread is that there are 50 or less persistant ground PvPers at all, and I am certainly not one of em at all. (Now of course, the truth of the title is entirely unknown, since the OP didn't really offer any evidence to that, but I digress)
2. I don't know enough about ground to create a good enough rule set. Like the list I posted a few pages back or so kinda helps show that. I know a good amount about ground, but not as up to date and well-informed as some of those that do a lot of ground stuff.
I was not intending to shoot your idea down. Sorry if it sounded that way.
Nah, it didn't sound that way to me. Don't worry about it. I totally get that if a tourny isn't really what ground PvPers want, then that's their choice. BUT, we don't know until someone tries first.
Now, something I've been thinking about, and I wanna 'test the waters' in regards to asking this question:
Would some of ya'll want to see the return of Ground Boot Camp? I ask this because many months ago, GBC was put on hold by those who started it back then. Here is the old curriculum and primer:
Look at those please, and tell me if you all think that is still good enough to help teach and give a solid start to ground PvP.
(If the OP, or some of you all want, I can make a new thread with a bit more info, and also not overly derail this one. I DO like ground, and I wanna see it grow, but I simply don't have the know-how and such to make it happen, I need help from those who do know ground a lot better.)
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Now, something I've been thinking about, and I wanna 'test the waters' in regards to asking this question:
Would some of ya'll want to see the return of Ground Boot Camp? I ask this because many months ago, GBC was put on hold by those who started it back then. Here is the old curriculum and primer:
Look at those please, and tell me if you all think that is still good enough to help teach and give a solid start to ground PvP.
(If the OP, or some of you all want, I can make a new thread with a bit more info, and also not overly derail this one. I DO like ground, and I wanna see it grow, but I simply don't have the know-how and such to make it happen, I need help from those who do know ground a lot better.)
Unfortunately, those guides are rather dated. For example, the Cryo Pulsewave is mentioned, which isn't much of a problem anymore. However, over the last month and a half I have been (slowly) working on putting together a comprehensive guide to Ground PvP as well as an overall introduction to Ground combat. It's not finished yet, it needs a lot of polish, but once it's done I plan to post it onto stowiki. With a bit of luck, I plan to have it up within the next few weeks. Hopefully some people will find it useful once it is finished.
What will FES and Hammer do now? Ohh wait, Sci Biochemist spam.
I can name a few. Uncloak in a group of five and complain we are cheating. Wait here is another double box. As far as a biochemist yes it does need to counter but if you die with a stack of debuffs it is your own fault for not paying attention to your buff tree. And Assad as cryo immobilizer the only way to combat it is to have it yourself. It needs to be fixed.
We would welcome any player to come to our fleet mumble channel and run with us. Then maybe you will see is all we do is better team work. But of course no one will because they would loose their ground on how we cheat. We welcome any match. Do we like to loose, no, no one does. We actually like the close matches better. The one think we will do is hunt a cloaker.
Unfortunately, those guides are rather dated. For example, the Cryo Pulsewave is mentioned, which isn't much of a problem anymore. However, over the last month and a half I have been (slowly) working on putting together a comprehensive guide to Ground PvP as well as an overall introduction to Ground combat. It's not finished yet, it needs a lot of polish, but once it's done I plan to post it onto stowiki. With a bit of luck, I plan to have it up within the next few weeks. Hopefully some people will find it useful once it is finished.
I had a feeling that was the case with that old curriculum and primer.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I can name a few. Uncloak in a group of five and complain we are cheating. Wait here is another double box. As far as a biochemist yes it does need to counter but if you die with a stack of debuffs it is your own fault for not paying attention to your buff tree. And Assad as cryo immobilizer the only way to combat it is to have it yourself. It needs to be fixed.
We would welcome any player to come to our fleet mumble channel and run with us. Then maybe you will see is all we do is better team work. But of course no one will because they would loose their ground on how we cheat. We welcome any match. Do we like to loose, no, no one does. We actually like the close matches better. The one think we will do is hunt a cloaker.
I wrote up a long rant about the biochemist, but I decided something shorter would suffice. You know full well the biochemist duty officer is broken, blaming it on the other team doesn't justify your abuse of the duty officer at all. It's just another reason that playing with or fighting your fleet isn't enjoyable. All of you are fine with winning a blowout, but when things get close you all play like sore losers. If you want a prime example, a Ghost ship match that your fleet won about two and a half months back.
At one point the game was 18 to 6 in favor of the PUG team. Your fleet got mad and bunkered down in the lower level of Ghost ship at the choke point. The PUG team waited in the top level for a good 15 minutes, your fleet nagging us to come down into the gauntlet to engage them. We didn't, thus your fleet started firing orbital strikes and DoT duty officer plasma grenades through the floor, back when the DoT doff was even more bugged than it is now. We went down to engage them, we got wiped because one of your fleet's tac's was cycling kits to super stack DoT procs before firing. We then got camped for the remainder of the game because your fleet didn't want to chance losing.
So you will understand why I have a very low opinion of your fleet. If we are ever to do as mimey2 suggests, that type of behavior needs to change. As for your fleet's rabid hate for cloakers, there really is no need for such hate, cloaking is a fair and viable playstyle. I understand none of you know how to counter them, but you know where to find me if you ever want to stop and learn. Here's a hint, FES's method of cloaker countering doesn't work, so stop listening to them on that area. Their whole scripted spacebar healing thing that they do makes them easy to pick off because they are so predictable. Here's another thing, pick up a pair of Frosted Boots this winter event. A cloaker will panic if they are all buffed up and you use that to start sliding out of range.
I wrote up a long rant about the biochemist, but I decided something shorter would suffice. You know full well the biochemist duty officer is broken, blaming it on the other team doesn't justify your abuse of the duty officer at all. It's just another reason that playing with or fighting your fleet isn't enjoyable. All of you are fine with winning a blowout, but when things get close you all play like sore losers. If you want a prime example, a Ghost ship match that your fleet won about two and a half months back.
At one point the game was 18 to 6 in favor of the PUG team. Your fleet got mad and bunkered down in the lower level of Ghost ship at the choke point. The PUG team waited in the top level for a good 15 minutes, your fleet nagging us to come down into the gauntlet to engage them. We didn't, thus your fleet started firing orbital strikes and DoT duty officer plasma grenades through the floor, back when the DoT doff was even more bugged than it is now. We went down to engage them, we got wiped because one of your fleet's tac's was cycling kits to super stack DoT procs before firing. We then got camped for the remainder of the game because your fleet didn't want to chance losing.
So you will understand why I have a very low opinion of your fleet. If we are ever to do as mimey2 suggests, that type of behavior needs to change. As for your fleet's rabid hate for cloakers, there really is no need for such hate, cloaking is a fair and viable playstyle. I understand none of you know how to counter them, but you know where to find me if you ever want to stop and learn. Here's a hint, FES's method of cloaker countering doesn't work, so stop listening to them on that area. Their whole scripted spacebar healing thing that they do makes them easy to pick off because they are so predictable. Here's another thing, pick up a pair of Frosted Boots this winter event. A cloaker will panic if they are all buffed up and you use that to start sliding out of range.
Well, guess there is no reasoning with people. I never said the biochemist was not broken, the whole fleet believe it needs a balance pass over. It does need a counter. Instead of blaming someone I hold everyone accountable for every death they take. You don't win by taking needless deaths. I have seen myself with a 7 or 8 stack of debuffs. I have to back down and let them clear. So if you have stacks on a player and he charges it is their fault for taken a death. They need to watch their buff tree.
Our game style does not change when we are loosing or winning. We won that match because we adapted, I remember that match and I was the TAC, I don't need to kit swap. That is a low trick, if it makes you feel better I would be happy to record any match and put it on you tube. Instead of naming and shaming provide proof. You want to say we cheat but never able to back it up. That match happened after the DOT repair, I did not run them until the repair, and I ran them in that match. I don't camp, I let people off spawn, if they shoot, then it is free game. I will admit there are times when I have shot someone by accident because of a auto target. There is a difference between camping and run and gun. Let you know we through the grenade to get mortars firing.
Yes cloaking is part of the game, we accept that but we are not going to let ourselves be one shotted by a player that has no skill because they use operative as crutch. I am going to use Rose as an example. When she always used the operative she had less assist to death ratio and less damage. Now she is harder to kit (takes less deaths), has higher assist numbers, and her damage has gone through the roof. She rivals any damage on her side.
It is amazing for people with bad sportsmanship we still say good game after a match and willing to help anyone that ask.
Well, guess there is no reasoning with people. I never said the biochemist was not broken, the whole fleet believe it needs a balance pass over. It does need a counter. Instead of blaming someone I hold everyone accountable for every death they take. You don't win by taking needless deaths. I have seen myself with a 7 or 8 stack of debuffs. I have to back down and let them clear. So if you have stacks on a player and he charges it is their fault for taken a death. They need to watch their buff tree.
Our game style does not change when we are loosing or winning. We won that match because we adapted, I remember that match and I was the TAC, I don't need to kit swap. That is a low trick, if it makes you feel better I would be happy to record any match and put it on you tube. Instead of naming and shaming provide proof. You want to say we cheat but never able to back it up. That match happened after the DOT repair, I did not run them until the repair, and I ran them in that match. I don't camp, I let people off spawn, if they shoot, then it is free game. I will admit there are times when I have shot someone by accident because of a auto target. There is a difference between camping and run and gun. Let you know we through the grenade to get mortars firing.
And if the entire team has the debuff stacked upon them, what them, hmm? You and I both know Physicist has a very large radius, it's not hard to stack upon the entire team. Once that happens, you can't take cover with your whole team, the other team would simply rush. Killing someone with a bug and then blaming the person that died for dying in the first place is daft. You weren't in that match I described, it was Doc, Sutherland, Wedge, Lion Heart, one other hammer engineer. Wedge was the only tac on your team.
You can't deny it happened. Just ask Satesh about it, it's one of the reasons he left your fleet, he ended up as a pug on our team and got mad because he saw what his own fleet was doing to pug teams. The DoT doffs were still very much broken, the game after your fleet ran into biggles who gave them a taste of their own DoT medicine. That grenade your team threw, you knew full well what you were doing. And the orbital strikes though the floor. Are you honestly trying to say you weren't trying to kill us through the floor?
As for not camping, we won't even go there, everyone knows your fleet camps. I took screenshots of your fleet camping Otha's spawn two nights ago. Your playstyles do change, when up against pug teams you have no problem running around the map 1v5ing people down, keeping them from grouping up. When you run into organized teams, you bunker down, refusing to come out to fight.
And if the entire team has the debuff stacked upon them, what them, hmm? You and I both know Physicist has a very large radius, it's not hard to stack upon the entire team. Once that happens, you can't take cover with your whole team, the other team would simply rush. Killing someone with a bug and then blaming the person that died for dying in the first place is daft. You weren't in that match I described, it was Doc, Sutherland, Wedge, Lion Heart, one other hammer engineer. Wedge was the only tac on your team.
You can't deny it happened. Just ask Satesh about it, it's one of the reasons he left your fleet, he ended up as a pug on our team and got mad because he saw what his own fleet was doing to pug teams. The DoT doffs were still very much broken, the game after your fleet ran into biggles who gave them a taste of their own DoT medicine. That grenade your team threw, you knew full well what you were doing. And the orbital strikes though the floor. Are you honestly trying to say you weren't trying to kill us through the floor?
As for not camping, we won't even go there, everyone knows your fleet camps. I took screenshots of your fleet camping Otha's spawn two nights ago. Your playstyles do change, when up against pug teams you have no problem running around the map 1v5ing people down, keeping them from grouping up. When you run into organized teams, you bunker down, refusing to come out to fight.
Sorry but you are not getting it. I hold every death every person takes accountable. When the Physicist doff is used against us, we don't complain we adapt. We ant push as hard. It is just like rushing a team when they have tac int up. We will not do it. You have to pay attention to you buffs and your opponents. I do understand that the Phycisit doff needs a counter and does not need to stack to put a persons resistance beyond zero. But when it is being used against me, I am going to use it.
And any match I am in I call out spawners. Hop on to mumble and find out for yourself. We are happy to let someone off of spawn. If we shoot at them, we tend to try to let them go. It is not alway our fault if a spawner runs into a team of five. Yes it does happen. Not everyone does it. Please show me your screen shot. I would love to see it.
As far as the match is concerned. That is a tactic used to get mortars firing. If you let yourself die because you don't move in a grenade, mortar, or orbital ring that is your own fault. It is not a tactic to kill someone. We try to capture a doer in almost every match. It is part of our anti cloaking technique. Sometimes we can hold it sometimes we can't. That does not change our style. I when are glad to go 5v5. But once one side get one or two down the other alway pushes. It is a fair tactic. If we end up loosing the push we have to work on getting back together. We don't go running into a group of five and call it camping. It is easy enough. To watch your miny map to stay away from the more aggressive team at the time. I have been on both sides.
if it makes you feel better I would be happy to record any match and put it on you tube. Instead of naming and shaming provide proof. You want to say we cheat but never able to back it up.
You really need to do that, because we have (edit: I may have deleted most of them, but I know I have a few left. Of course I can always get more.) a ton of screenshots of Hammer/FES spawn camping and molesting players by tea bagging and doing push ups with their privates placed over the players' heads. You may not have seen it yet, but it happens a lot.
(PS) Open Broadcast Software is a great free program to record video. I use it and have no lag problems. http://obsproject.com/
You really need to do that, because we have (edit: I may have deleted most of them, but I know I have a few left. Of course I can always get more.) a ton of screenshots of Hammer/FES spawn camping and molesting players by tea bagging and doing push ups with their privates placed over the players' heads. You may not have seen it yet, but it happens a lot.
(PS) Open Broadcast Software is a great free program to record video. I use it and have no lag problems. http://obsproject.com/
If this is happening, you need to tell Doc, if it is a Hammer. He would not tolerate this at all. You might have problems with him in game but if you knew him and talked to him in real life you would know that he would not tolerate this.
i just had new pvp ground people today with me they wanted to learn how it work but hammer would not listen and i said to them give the player chance but no they do not listen at all.
i just had new pvp ground people today with me they wanted to learn how it work but hammer would not listen and i said to them give the player chance but no they do not listen at all.
Nine
Are you referring to the 2 man hammer team that you guys faced, in which I and another Hammer member was part of?
We were down 1 man the entire match so it was 3v4. Then on top of that we had a horrible pug, who took all 11 of our deaths. And one of the people you were training, Hunt, Isn't new to ground at all. I remember personally, along with a few very experienced ground pvpers, training him. He was using death mortars against us, you were running heavy pyro, and you had a sci in the back healing your team along with another engineer running mines. It seemed very fair to me at that point, considering we were outgunned, losing our pug due to "cloak, run in, and die" tactics, and being bombarded by death mortars, to retaliate heavily. sorry our 2 man premade crushed your 4 man. Sorry we didn't sit still and let you kill us.
If you're referring to the other, well, I definitely know you cant be talking about that one seeing as you had a full team of some of the most regular ground pvpers in the game.
So, I'm a bit confused.. what exactly did Hammer do wrong?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Working as intended"... 1 year later they "fix" it.
You really need to do that, because we have (edit: I may have deleted most of them, but I know I have a few left. Of course I can always get more.) a ton of screenshots of Hammer/FES spawn camping and molesting players by tea bagging and doing push ups with their privates placed over the players' heads. You may not have seen it yet, but it happens a lot.
(PS) Open Broadcast Software is a great free program to record video. I use it and have no lag problems. http://obsproject.com/
well when you kig dirt bags and tip of spear exploiters all you can do is talk trash in zone,
exploit broken stuff, then call tactics cheating??/ you are morons, and tiraomega, dont claim you dont use the log exploit to cheat death, and tip of spear members got to duel box to cheat, of lay off... and i am welsh, that makes me good at serving "tea"...drink up
oh bucky, i went to pryo because i got tired of fs and tip of the spear using non stop exploits against me, one v one any day...... you know my handle
ps i have 17 screen shots of kig/fs/ tip of spear exploits, one where "alcom" admits to duel boxing....... and the trash talk kig and rose tyler did on otha to instigate my tasty cups of "tea"
don't like?? beam out..or log out like ya'll do in pvp to keep for a death point, "/log out" must be you guys screen saver...dont even get me started on the cloaking expploits you people use...so buzz off morons
I like how in STO the status quo is the exact reverse of SWG.
Ground ruled there, and space was the red headed stepchild.
XD
Edit: Which is all well and good, in that game space PvP required actual joysticks and fighter pilot skills. It was a twitch based full 360 degree axes space sim, quite a far cry from sub warfare of this game. If you didnt dodge everything incoming, you died. If you couldnt get your blaster bolts on your target, you couldnt win. There wasnt this auto targeting spacebar spamming automated derpmode we see here.
Ground was much the same. You didnt have 1-2-3-4 i win combos like was described earlier in the thread. Even a full stack of spy buffs didnt guarantee a oneshot kill, and always left you defenseless in the end.
You could win a 5 or 6 on 1 in that game if you were good enough. Here its numbers win every time. Especially the "right professions and ships".
The more I compare the PvP of this game to other games, especially those I have hardcore played, the more I get disenfranchised and want to retire from it here. Especially after fiascos like a certain group of "roleplay heroes" using 4 temporal ships and TIF on each with a recluse vs pugs and pugmades last night... I mean really? has pvp in this game really evolved into pugrolling for the sake of it?
Ah, an old SWG player :cool:
Funny you mentioned SWG's ground & space combat. I really did love ground PVE & PVP in that game (Pre-CU days to be more exact). But the later introduction of space was great. As you said, it took player skill to be successful. I was an avid fan of the 1990's era of space sims. Freespace 1 & 2, the entire X-Wing series, from X-Wing thru X-Wing: Alliance. The "Jump To Lightspeed" was an awesome expansion and the depth of space combat was great.
SOE's treatment of SWG's space game was both good & bad. "Good" in that it never suffered the CU & NGE updates (or downgrades, IMO). It was untouched for most parts. "Bad" in the fact that it was exactly that, untouched, and SOE never expanded space at all at any worthwhile level. It was ignored. After the CU & NGE updates, space play was the last refuge of RPG skill leveling with a very healthy dose of actual player skill for success.
I yearned to fly my fighters in the midst of a fleet engagement, but it would never happen in SWG. Mon Cal cruisers vs Star Destroyers, various frigates, etc, with Rebel alphabet fighters and TIEs screaming about. Never did happen, sadly.
well when you kig dirt bags and tip of spear exploiters all you can do is talk trash in zone,
exploit broken stuff, then call tactics cheating??/ you are morons, and tiraomega, dont claim you dont use the log exploit to cheat death, and tip of spear members got to duel box to cheat, of lay off... and i am welsh, that makes me good at serving "tea"...drink up
oh bucky, i went to pryo because i got tired of fs and tip of the spear using non stop exploits against me, one v one any day...... you know my handle
ps i have 17 screen shots of kig/fs/ tip of spear exploits, one where "alcom" admits to duel boxing....... and the trash talk kig and rose tyler did on otha to instigate my tasty cups of "tea"
don't like?? beam out..or log out like ya'll do in pvp to keep for a death point, "/log out" must be you guys screen saver...dont even get me started on the cloaking expploits you people use...so buzz off morons
Bonez McCoy
oh tira, 1v1 any day any time, you two faced commie !!!
you know my handle .........
Why do I get the distinct impression that you aren't the real McCoy? For starters your sentence structure is much different from the actual ingame Bonez McCoy. Secondly, at least from my past interactions with the real Bonez McCoy, he had a much cooler demeanor than demonstrated here. Something is off, very off.
I do think that is bonez, he is tired of people calling us exploiters and all we are doing I fighting back against who used them against us first. I will admit to using biochemist, but it was not until the last three weeks. I got tired of people using it against me. This might be a rotten attitude but if it is an exploit used against me I have no problem with using it against the same person. People claim cloaking is not an exploit, I agree to a point. If you uncloak on someone, lunge them, and then use a pulsewave that is just as bad as a sword. It is almost constant knock back. This is the reason we hunt cloakers. It was even worse when lunge and pounce did not share the same cooldown. This was an awesome fix from Cryptic.
Bonez you need to calm down in the forums buddy.
Next I don't see why this community is so worked up. If your talk to people like you want to be talked to yourself, we can get more done. If you think there is a bug we need to report it. Sometime it does take Cryptic time to find out what it causing bugs. But from what I have heard in testing already done on Tribbel the knock back sword exploit is still not fixed. I have not seen any Tribble patch notes saying it is fixed, but I have not looked.
I do think that is bonez, he is tired of people calling us exploiters and all we are doing I fighting back against who used them against us first. I will admit to using biochemist, but it was not until the last three weeks. I got tired of people using it against me. This might be a rotten attitude but if it is an exploit used against me I have no problem with using it against the same person. People claim cloaking is not an exploit, I agree to a point. If you uncloak on someone, lunge them, and then use a pulsewave that is just as bad as a sword. It is almost constant knock back. This is the reason we hunt cloakers. It was even worse when lunge and pounce did not share the same cooldown. This was an awesome fix from Cryptic.
Bonez you need to calm down in the forums buddy.
Next I don't see why this community is so worked up. If your talk to people like you want to be talked to yourself, we can get more done. If you think there is a bug we need to report it. Sometime it does take Cryptic time to find out what it causing bugs. But from what I have heard in testing already done on Tribbel the knock back sword exploit is still not fixed. I have not seen any Tribble patch notes saying it is fixed, but I have not looked.
Nulonu confirms, chain knockback is fixed on Tribble (for the most part).
Now that's how I remember it being. Can't chain knock npcs anymore. When you get an exploit hit on them is the only time they fall over. Lunge is knocking them down most of the time but not quite all the time. Can clearly see that knock back resistance is working.
Now there is just the matter of adding knockback resistances to Lunge, Pounce, Bite, Pulsewaves, and [KB3] mod weapons. However that is coming per this:
Lunge is affected, but Lunge also has its own Knockback in addition to the knockback it was gaining from the enhancement I fixed. Pulsewaves are not affected by the change to the enhancement, but we'll be adding KB resistance to any KB power that doesn't grant KB resistance.
Thus, knockback will be fixed by Season Eight. As far as I understand, Cryo Immobilizer Module and the Biochemist duty officers will be fixed soon as well. Kit swapping type A has had a fix deployed for several days now. That just leaves kit swapping type B (for cooldown reduction), medical vanguard + elite fleet armor, and stealth hiding animations at 30 meters as the remaining significant bugs currently in the ground game.
I understand you are sick of people using exploits on ground, I'm of the same mindset. Personally, I despise exploits, I avoid using them like the plague. When the Cryo Pulsewave was a problem, I didn't use it. For months people used it against me, but I refused to stoop to the low level of pulling one out myself. Eventually I got fed up with it and I used it, applying a liberal amount of oneshots via the operative kit to the people that had used it against me. About a month after which it finally got fixed. There are a lot of problems ingame right now; Cryo Immobilizer Module, Sword or multisource Knockback, DoT duty officers, and the biochemist duty officer. All of which I don't use and I fight such players without abusing the problems.
As for the whole Bonez exploding here, I was finally able to get into game long enough to confirm that the message here on the forums was indeed from him. Either that or the mildly colorful message he sent me ingame was a perfect coincidence.
@Bonez, I was merely attempting to explain why I have a problem with your fleet at the moment. There is no malicious intent upon my part here. You stopped to talk with me about it a few weeks ago, telling me that your fleet is all into fair play, teamwork, and just here for the fun of the game. I can respect that, I took it to heart, and I genuinely tried to put my past views regarding your fleet aside.
Well, actions speak louder than words. Three nights ago you and your fleet beam in camped Otha. Now you can say that you and Doc are against that sort of thing, but both of you were there and both of you helped with the camping. Neither of you said anything, at least not in zone chat, when one of your party repeatedly crouch humped my female character's lower region after killing my character. Nor when they did the same to the others that were camped. What you did do was PM me telling me that it's nothing personal, and everything they were doing is because of the war (with KIG).
This is a video game, not the real world, a video game. There is absolutely no reason for such unsportsmanlike conduct. Ever since that "war" with KIG started up, Otha has been infested with drama and spawn camping, "make peace" already and finish it. Some of us go to Otha to do "To the Front Lines (Daily)". Dying before the beam in animation finishes makes it rather impossible. What your fleet is doing, camping the Otha spawn, is no different than what a well known group of Starfleet Oral Hygienists used to do in Ker'rat.
You're upset that Hammer has a bad reputation right now, well, only you and your fleetmates can fix that problem. There was once a time when fighting with or against your fleet was enjoyable, oh how that's changed over the last 6 months. Perhaps that will change in the future, only time will tell. I will say though, your fleet truly does have some nice people, it's not too far of a stretch to believe a change could happen.
Now, this thread has become far too hostile, let's try to cool this whole thing down or I'll simply stop replying.
This TRIBBLE was never worth paying attention to and it's why mimeys great idea of a no bs tourney with totally random teams balanced for fun, even matches would never work in this environment. Not only that, but newbies trying out ground being subjected to the zone trolling and insults tossed around in matches are going to be turned off by the toxicity of the atmosphere as much as they are by broken mechanics. Usually I just turn zone off in matches so I'm not reading nasty comments and trolling from people I don't know/have never talked to.
It's great when a dev steps in and says "ya that's broke" and removes all doubt. Season updates are great opportunities to draw attention to broken things. I'm sure adjudicator is sick of seeing pm's in his inbox from me! Big thanks to him for taking the time to chat with me about things when he can. :P
Everyone should be really excited that the knock back power that was ignoring resists is fixed. From testing on tribble there will be no more pounce chaining going on. No one is going to be able to cycle kits to put nhm on them self and teammates. There will be no more fire scis putting nhm on from a medic kit before putting physicist kit back on. Hopefully, we'll see the biochem doff, and cryo immobilizer fixed soon also.
Bottom line, it's a really exciting time to be a ground player IMO. Stop raging, phasers ready, and have fun.
oh bucky, i went to pryo because i got tired of fs and tip of the spear using non stop exploits against me
ps i have 17 screen shots of kig/fs/ tip of spear exploits, one where "alcom" admits to duel boxing.......
Bonez McCoy
How is duel boxing a cheat? It puts a player at a disadvantage having to control 2 toons at once and takes up 2 player slots. It does not gain us an extra player. It actually helps fill teams so the matches will start. Of course he admits to it, the DEVs are even discussing if ARC will still allow duel boxing.
(http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=13144301&postcount=63)
(http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=13184841&postcount=251)
It is openly discussed. Tip of the Spear does not use cloak, Type 3 phasers, swords, kit swapping, log out during matches, etc. There are only a few of us and only one that cloaks is not playing any longer (that I am aware of).
We are open to discussions about anything people think is unfair, but Alcom wins most duels 1v1 as well, so skill is a factor. Duel boxing is for fun and to balance the numbers, not exploit. Feel free to express your experience and how you feel it is an exploit. I have teamed up with a second player and dueled Alcom/Carmen and we win every time against the duel boxing, so I see no problem as he beats me 1v1.
@majortiraomega: I have screenshots of that occasion, yes Doc was there overseeing the camping.
Tip of the Spear doesn't even use Catians, so we have never exploited the pounce knockback. How many other people here can say they do not have a Catian toon? I bought the race and had one, but deleted it before the revamp made them OP.
We had 1 member who cloaked and used a Catian, but he rarely speaks to any of us, and if we see him we usually end up against him in a match.
Tip of the Spear is primarily just myself and my son (x2 as he brings 2 boxes). I have tried it a few times, but I am not about to spend the 2 years training my reflexes and all needed to do it effectively. I understand some may see it as an exploit, we have even discussed it, but why not team up with him and do a few STFs/PvP and watch for yourself. I believe that if you really honestly evaluate the idea, you will agree that it is far better to have him split between 2 than teamed up with someone at or near his skill level.
This TRIBBLE was never worth paying attention to and it's why mimeys great idea of a no bs tourney with totally random teams balanced for fun, even matches would never work in this environment. Not only that, but newbies trying out ground being subjected to the zone trolling and insults tossed around in matches are going to be turned off by the toxicity of the atmosphere as much as they are by broken mechanics. Usually I just turn zone off in matches so I'm not reading nasty comments and trolling from people I don't know/have never talked to.
I admit, I was avoiding posting in this thread the past few pages because of the heated discussion that arose. I had no real part in it anyways.
Now that it's cooled a bit more, thank you Nulonu. I know you just said that the tourny idea wouldn't work. But, as long as this continues between the various ground fleets, nothing will change. Something must change before something can be tried.
I do want it to happen, but it all depends on everyone else basically managing a 'cease fire' of sorts. At least season 8 will be bringing some really good changes for ground which will help a lot.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
one where "alcom" admits to duel boxing.......
Bonez McCoy
Umm, if I recall correctly I did more then admit to it, I even showed you some of how I do it, took you on a STF. I am not trying to hide it, people just assume I am two different people. I have explained time and time again no bots, no exploits, no cats, no cloaks.
I am specced space and ground [as BOTH OF ME play space AND ground on the same toons.]
I use one button per power. For example: In ground ambush is Z. For my engineer I think its mortar. If it did both at once I would be FORCED to lay a mortar every time I hit ambush, that's stupid. No, I hit Z on one, then click the other box and click Z again to do both those things.
If this is such a exploit let me so YOU do it. [I mean really dodge grenades that you can see, let alone the cloaked ones from... certain people.] And uhh, no I still can't dodge grenades anywhere near 100% yet, which is my point.
I am very open about this, I still have trouble jumping with both toons in infected, but get better everyday. [I would even like to think I can beat my father and his friend 2vs2 sometimes lol]
So bottom line is, some people can play Guitar Hero on expert near perfect, some can play Megaman using no special weapons and never get hit. I can duel log two players almost as good as two. Maybe one day I will actually be able to be equal to two people.
Please don't hate on something just because you assume to much.
CABrandt and Carmen, spawn guardians.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tip of the Spear
>
Hammer has a bad rep? I thought FES held that title?
To my dismay, all ground pvp fleets are the same. I will never join another. All Federation premades are steam rolling animals who have caused the lack of players in ground pvp with their unspartsman-like behaivior. I have more fun in the FVK random teaming.
Let me expand, I do not like being in a premade ground team because one of 2 things will happen:
1- your team will curb stomp a group of pugs with no resistance which is no fun for anyone.
2- your team will engage in a 40 minute battle through the same door against another premade which is not fun.
I like being myself. I like having a split of space and ground traits and playing how I want. I like using a compression pistol!
I don't like people telling me what to do and what to use. I don't like to take all day to complete my pvp daily mission. And finally, I don't like how 99% of the pvp ground community rages and rages over voice or zone chat and hold grudges. Most of them need an attitude adjustment.
I'll stay in my FVK with the occasional FVF when I think it's a random match. The FVF Q belongs to the premades. I stated in a prior thread that 4 ground pvp fleets are capable of running premades 24/7 and making sure the FVF Q is a barren wasteland where no one can enjoy themselves.
We need a random game/teaming mode for pvp for people who don't want to have to deal with these issues.
Comments
The hieroglyphics on the spreadsheet back up my use of the word archaic.
Why you want to argue about such a minor thing is beyond me. Our reasons are obvious, the skill and trait min/max is being used as a reason to avoid ground. Even worse, it is being taught as if it is a major proven fact. You seem to like to use logical fallacies to advocate your opinions. For instance, stating that 1v1s are no longer relevant in space PvP, and saying that a spreadsheet about irrelevant material proves you know what you are talking about.
@majortiraomega: we have other threads to discuss ground in, no need to keep this poorly titled one going IMO.
That's actually a really good way of putting it.
I think that roughly half numbers from what Naz had for his space tournament would work: 8 engineers, 16 sci, 16 tac. With a mix of 1 eng, 2 tac, 2 sci per team (in theory at least), would even out perfectly to 8 teams of 5. Now if it was a more popular thing than I am thinking, great, then more slots could simply be opened up.
I'd try and make a ground tourny happen, but two things I feel would hold me back from it:
1. I don't think my name would be good enough to bring in enough people to actually make it happen. I'm not trying to be egotistical with that statement. Heck, the title of the thread is that there are 50 or less persistant ground PvPers at all, and I am certainly not one of em at all. (Now of course, the truth of the title is entirely unknown, since the OP didn't really offer any evidence to that, but I digress)
2. I don't know enough about ground to create a good enough rule set. Like the list I posted a few pages back or so kinda helps show that. I know a good amount about ground, but not as up to date and well-informed as some of those that do a lot of ground stuff.
Nah, it didn't sound that way to me. Don't worry about it. I totally get that if a tourny isn't really what ground PvPers want, then that's their choice. BUT, we don't know until someone tries first.
Now, something I've been thinking about, and I wanna 'test the waters' in regards to asking this question:
Would some of ya'll want to see the return of Ground Boot Camp? I ask this because many months ago, GBC was put on hold by those who started it back then. Here is the old curriculum and primer:
sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=517981
sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=517971
Look at those please, and tell me if you all think that is still good enough to help teach and give a solid start to ground PvP.
(If the OP, or some of you all want, I can make a new thread with a bit more info, and also not overly derail this one. I DO like ground, and I wanna see it grow, but I simply don't have the know-how and such to make it happen, I need help from those who do know ground a lot better.)
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
I can name a few. Uncloak in a group of five and complain we are cheating. Wait here is another double box. As far as a biochemist yes it does need to counter but if you die with a stack of debuffs it is your own fault for not paying attention to your buff tree. And Assad as cryo immobilizer the only way to combat it is to have it yourself. It needs to be fixed.
We would welcome any player to come to our fleet mumble channel and run with us. Then maybe you will see is all we do is better team work. But of course no one will because they would loose their ground on how we cheat. We welcome any match. Do we like to loose, no, no one does. We actually like the close matches better. The one think we will do is hunt a cloaker.
I had a feeling that was the case with that old curriculum and primer.
I wrote up a long rant about the biochemist, but I decided something shorter would suffice. You know full well the biochemist duty officer is broken, blaming it on the other team doesn't justify your abuse of the duty officer at all. It's just another reason that playing with or fighting your fleet isn't enjoyable. All of you are fine with winning a blowout, but when things get close you all play like sore losers. If you want a prime example, a Ghost ship match that your fleet won about two and a half months back.
At one point the game was 18 to 6 in favor of the PUG team. Your fleet got mad and bunkered down in the lower level of Ghost ship at the choke point. The PUG team waited in the top level for a good 15 minutes, your fleet nagging us to come down into the gauntlet to engage them. We didn't, thus your fleet started firing orbital strikes and DoT duty officer plasma grenades through the floor, back when the DoT doff was even more bugged than it is now. We went down to engage them, we got wiped because one of your fleet's tac's was cycling kits to super stack DoT procs before firing. We then got camped for the remainder of the game because your fleet didn't want to chance losing.
So you will understand why I have a very low opinion of your fleet. If we are ever to do as mimey2 suggests, that type of behavior needs to change. As for your fleet's rabid hate for cloakers, there really is no need for such hate, cloaking is a fair and viable playstyle. I understand none of you know how to counter them, but you know where to find me if you ever want to stop and learn. Here's a hint, FES's method of cloaker countering doesn't work, so stop listening to them on that area. Their whole scripted spacebar healing thing that they do makes them easy to pick off because they are so predictable. Here's another thing, pick up a pair of Frosted Boots this winter event. A cloaker will panic if they are all buffed up and you use that to start sliding out of range.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
1 v 1 So you can show me the exploits that I am using.
Well, guess there is no reasoning with people. I never said the biochemist was not broken, the whole fleet believe it needs a balance pass over. It does need a counter. Instead of blaming someone I hold everyone accountable for every death they take. You don't win by taking needless deaths. I have seen myself with a 7 or 8 stack of debuffs. I have to back down and let them clear. So if you have stacks on a player and he charges it is their fault for taken a death. They need to watch their buff tree.
Our game style does not change when we are loosing or winning. We won that match because we adapted, I remember that match and I was the TAC, I don't need to kit swap. That is a low trick, if it makes you feel better I would be happy to record any match and put it on you tube. Instead of naming and shaming provide proof. You want to say we cheat but never able to back it up. That match happened after the DOT repair, I did not run them until the repair, and I ran them in that match. I don't camp, I let people off spawn, if they shoot, then it is free game. I will admit there are times when I have shot someone by accident because of a auto target. There is a difference between camping and run and gun. Let you know we through the grenade to get mortars firing.
Yes cloaking is part of the game, we accept that but we are not going to let ourselves be one shotted by a player that has no skill because they use operative as crutch. I am going to use Rose as an example. When she always used the operative she had less assist to death ratio and less damage. Now she is harder to kit (takes less deaths), has higher assist numbers, and her damage has gone through the roof. She rivals any damage on her side.
It is amazing for people with bad sportsmanship we still say good game after a match and willing to help anyone that ask.
You can't deny it happened. Just ask Satesh about it, it's one of the reasons he left your fleet, he ended up as a pug on our team and got mad because he saw what his own fleet was doing to pug teams. The DoT doffs were still very much broken, the game after your fleet ran into biggles who gave them a taste of their own DoT medicine. That grenade your team threw, you knew full well what you were doing. And the orbital strikes though the floor. Are you honestly trying to say you weren't trying to kill us through the floor?
As for not camping, we won't even go there, everyone knows your fleet camps. I took screenshots of your fleet camping Otha's spawn two nights ago. Your playstyles do change, when up against pug teams you have no problem running around the map 1v5ing people down, keeping them from grouping up. When you run into organized teams, you bunker down, refusing to come out to fight.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Sorry but you are not getting it. I hold every death every person takes accountable. When the Physicist doff is used against us, we don't complain we adapt. We ant push as hard. It is just like rushing a team when they have tac int up. We will not do it. You have to pay attention to you buffs and your opponents. I do understand that the Phycisit doff needs a counter and does not need to stack to put a persons resistance beyond zero. But when it is being used against me, I am going to use it.
And any match I am in I call out spawners. Hop on to mumble and find out for yourself. We are happy to let someone off of spawn. If we shoot at them, we tend to try to let them go. It is not alway our fault if a spawner runs into a team of five. Yes it does happen. Not everyone does it. Please show me your screen shot. I would love to see it.
As far as the match is concerned. That is a tactic used to get mortars firing. If you let yourself die because you don't move in a grenade, mortar, or orbital ring that is your own fault. It is not a tactic to kill someone. We try to capture a doer in almost every match. It is part of our anti cloaking technique. Sometimes we can hold it sometimes we can't. That does not change our style. I when are glad to go 5v5. But once one side get one or two down the other alway pushes. It is a fair tactic. If we end up loosing the push we have to work on getting back together. We don't go running into a group of five and call it camping. It is easy enough. To watch your miny map to stay away from the more aggressive team at the time. I have been on both sides.
You really need to do that, because we have (edit: I may have deleted most of them, but I know I have a few left. Of course I can always get more.) a ton of screenshots of Hammer/FES spawn camping and molesting players by tea bagging and doing push ups with their privates placed over the players' heads. You may not have seen it yet, but it happens a lot.
(PS) Open Broadcast Software is a great free program to record video. I use it and have no lag problems.
http://obsproject.com/
If this is happening, you need to tell Doc, if it is a Hammer. He would not tolerate this at all. You might have problems with him in game but if you knew him and talked to him in real life you would know that he would not tolerate this.
Nine
Are you referring to the 2 man hammer team that you guys faced, in which I and another Hammer member was part of?
We were down 1 man the entire match so it was 3v4. Then on top of that we had a horrible pug, who took all 11 of our deaths. And one of the people you were training, Hunt, Isn't new to ground at all. I remember personally, along with a few very experienced ground pvpers, training him. He was using death mortars against us, you were running heavy pyro, and you had a sci in the back healing your team along with another engineer running mines. It seemed very fair to me at that point, considering we were outgunned, losing our pug due to "cloak, run in, and die" tactics, and being bombarded by death mortars, to retaliate heavily. sorry our 2 man premade crushed your 4 man. Sorry we didn't sit still and let you kill us.
If you're referring to the other, well, I definitely know you cant be talking about that one seeing as you had a full team of some of the most regular ground pvpers in the game.
So, I'm a bit confused.. what exactly did Hammer do wrong?
"Working as intended"... 1 year later they "fix" it.
well when you kig dirt bags and tip of spear exploiters all you can do is talk trash in zone,
exploit broken stuff, then call tactics cheating??/ you are morons, and tiraomega, dont claim you dont use the log exploit to cheat death, and tip of spear members got to duel box to cheat, of lay off... and i am welsh, that makes me good at serving "tea"...drink up
ps i have 17 screen shots of kig/fs/ tip of spear exploits, one where "alcom" admits to duel boxing....... and the trash talk kig and rose tyler did on otha to instigate my tasty cups of "tea"
don't like?? beam out..or log out like ya'll do in pvp to keep for a death point, "/log out" must be you guys screen saver...dont even get me started on the cloaking expploits you people use...so buzz off morons
Bonez McCoy
you know my handle .........
Ah, an old SWG player :cool:
Funny you mentioned SWG's ground & space combat. I really did love ground PVE & PVP in that game (Pre-CU days to be more exact). But the later introduction of space was great. As you said, it took player skill to be successful. I was an avid fan of the 1990's era of space sims. Freespace 1 & 2, the entire X-Wing series, from X-Wing thru X-Wing: Alliance. The "Jump To Lightspeed" was an awesome expansion and the depth of space combat was great.
SOE's treatment of SWG's space game was both good & bad. "Good" in that it never suffered the CU & NGE updates (or downgrades, IMO). It was untouched for most parts. "Bad" in the fact that it was exactly that, untouched, and SOE never expanded space at all at any worthwhile level. It was ignored. After the CU & NGE updates, space play was the last refuge of RPG skill leveling with a very healthy dose of actual player skill for success.
I yearned to fly my fighters in the midst of a fleet engagement, but it would never happen in SWG. Mon Cal cruisers vs Star Destroyers, various frigates, etc, with Rebel alphabet fighters and TIEs screaming about. Never did happen, sadly.
Why do I get the distinct impression that you aren't the real McCoy? For starters your sentence structure is much different from the actual ingame Bonez McCoy. Secondly, at least from my past interactions with the real Bonez McCoy, he had a much cooler demeanor than demonstrated here. Something is off, very off.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Bonez you need to calm down in the forums buddy.
Next I don't see why this community is so worked up. If your talk to people like you want to be talked to yourself, we can get more done. If you think there is a bug we need to report it. Sometime it does take Cryptic time to find out what it causing bugs. But from what I have heard in testing already done on Tribbel the knock back sword exploit is still not fixed. I have not seen any Tribble patch notes saying it is fixed, but I have not looked.
Nulonu confirms, chain knockback is fixed on Tribble (for the most part).
Now there is just the matter of adding knockback resistances to Lunge, Pounce, Bite, Pulsewaves, and [KB3] mod weapons. However that is coming per this:
Thus, knockback will be fixed by Season Eight. As far as I understand, Cryo Immobilizer Module and the Biochemist duty officers will be fixed soon as well. Kit swapping type A has had a fix deployed for several days now. That just leaves kit swapping type B (for cooldown reduction), medical vanguard + elite fleet armor, and stealth hiding animations at 30 meters as the remaining significant bugs currently in the ground game.
I understand you are sick of people using exploits on ground, I'm of the same mindset. Personally, I despise exploits, I avoid using them like the plague. When the Cryo Pulsewave was a problem, I didn't use it. For months people used it against me, but I refused to stoop to the low level of pulling one out myself. Eventually I got fed up with it and I used it, applying a liberal amount of oneshots via the operative kit to the people that had used it against me. About a month after which it finally got fixed. There are a lot of problems ingame right now; Cryo Immobilizer Module, Sword or multisource Knockback, DoT duty officers, and the biochemist duty officer. All of which I don't use and I fight such players without abusing the problems.
As for the whole Bonez exploding here, I was finally able to get into game long enough to confirm that the message here on the forums was indeed from him. Either that or the mildly colorful message he sent me ingame was a perfect coincidence.
@Bonez, I was merely attempting to explain why I have a problem with your fleet at the moment. There is no malicious intent upon my part here. You stopped to talk with me about it a few weeks ago, telling me that your fleet is all into fair play, teamwork, and just here for the fun of the game. I can respect that, I took it to heart, and I genuinely tried to put my past views regarding your fleet aside.
Well, actions speak louder than words. Three nights ago you and your fleet beam in camped Otha. Now you can say that you and Doc are against that sort of thing, but both of you were there and both of you helped with the camping. Neither of you said anything, at least not in zone chat, when one of your party repeatedly crouch humped my female character's lower region after killing my character. Nor when they did the same to the others that were camped. What you did do was PM me telling me that it's nothing personal, and everything they were doing is because of the war (with KIG).
This is a video game, not the real world, a video game. There is absolutely no reason for such unsportsmanlike conduct. Ever since that "war" with KIG started up, Otha has been infested with drama and spawn camping, "make peace" already and finish it. Some of us go to Otha to do "To the Front Lines (Daily)". Dying before the beam in animation finishes makes it rather impossible. What your fleet is doing, camping the Otha spawn, is no different than what a well known group of Starfleet Oral Hygienists used to do in Ker'rat.
You're upset that Hammer has a bad reputation right now, well, only you and your fleetmates can fix that problem. There was once a time when fighting with or against your fleet was enjoyable, oh how that's changed over the last 6 months. Perhaps that will change in the future, only time will tell. I will say though, your fleet truly does have some nice people, it's not too far of a stretch to believe a change could happen.
Now, this thread has become far too hostile, let's try to cool this whole thing down or I'll simply stop replying.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
It's great when a dev steps in and says "ya that's broke" and removes all doubt. Season updates are great opportunities to draw attention to broken things. I'm sure adjudicator is sick of seeing pm's in his inbox from me! Big thanks to him for taking the time to chat with me about things when he can. :P
Everyone should be really excited that the knock back power that was ignoring resists is fixed. From testing on tribble there will be no more pounce chaining going on. No one is going to be able to cycle kits to put nhm on them self and teammates. There will be no more fire scis putting nhm on from a medic kit before putting physicist kit back on. Hopefully, we'll see the biochem doff, and cryo immobilizer fixed soon also.
Bottom line, it's a really exciting time to be a ground player IMO. Stop raging, phasers ready, and have fun.
Vanilla Ground PvP information
How is duel boxing a cheat? It puts a player at a disadvantage having to control 2 toons at once and takes up 2 player slots. It does not gain us an extra player. It actually helps fill teams so the matches will start. Of course he admits to it, the DEVs are even discussing if ARC will still allow duel boxing.
(http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=13144301&postcount=63)
(http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=13184841&postcount=251)
It is openly discussed. Tip of the Spear does not use cloak, Type 3 phasers, swords, kit swapping, log out during matches, etc. There are only a few of us and only one that cloaks is not playing any longer (that I am aware of).
We are open to discussions about anything people think is unfair, but Alcom wins most duels 1v1 as well, so skill is a factor. Duel boxing is for fun and to balance the numbers, not exploit. Feel free to express your experience and how you feel it is an exploit. I have teamed up with a second player and dueled Alcom/Carmen and we win every time against the duel boxing, so I see no problem as he beats me 1v1.
Tip of the Spear doesn't even use Catians, so we have never exploited the pounce knockback. How many other people here can say they do not have a Catian toon? I bought the race and had one, but deleted it before the revamp made them OP.
We had 1 member who cloaked and used a Catian, but he rarely speaks to any of us, and if we see him we usually end up against him in a match.
Tip of the Spear is primarily just myself and my son (x2 as he brings 2 boxes). I have tried it a few times, but I am not about to spend the 2 years training my reflexes and all needed to do it effectively. I understand some may see it as an exploit, we have even discussed it, but why not team up with him and do a few STFs/PvP and watch for yourself. I believe that if you really honestly evaluate the idea, you will agree that it is far better to have him split between 2 than teamed up with someone at or near his skill level.
I admit, I was avoiding posting in this thread the past few pages because of the heated discussion that arose. I had no real part in it anyways.
Now that it's cooled a bit more, thank you Nulonu. I know you just said that the tourny idea wouldn't work. But, as long as this continues between the various ground fleets, nothing will change. Something must change before something can be tried.
I do want it to happen, but it all depends on everyone else basically managing a 'cease fire' of sorts. At least season 8 will be bringing some really good changes for ground which will help a lot.
Umm, if I recall correctly I did more then admit to it, I even showed you some of how I do it, took you on a STF. I am not trying to hide it, people just assume I am two different people. I have explained time and time again no bots, no exploits, no cats, no cloaks.
I am specced space and ground [as BOTH OF ME play space AND ground on the same toons.]
I use one button per power. For example: In ground ambush is Z. For my engineer I think its mortar. If it did both at once I would be FORCED to lay a mortar every time I hit ambush, that's stupid. No, I hit Z on one, then click the other box and click Z again to do both those things.
If this is such a exploit let me so YOU do it. [I mean really dodge grenades that you can see, let alone the cloaked ones from... certain people.] And uhh, no I still can't dodge grenades anywhere near 100% yet, which is my point.
I am very open about this, I still have trouble jumping with both toons in infected, but get better everyday. [I would even like to think I can beat my father and his friend 2vs2 sometimes lol]
So bottom line is, some people can play Guitar Hero on expert near perfect, some can play Megaman using no special weapons and never get hit. I can duel log two players almost as good as two. Maybe one day I will actually be able to be equal to two people.
Please don't hate on something just because you assume to much.
CABrandt and Carmen, spawn guardians.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tip of the Spear
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To my dismay, all ground pvp fleets are the same. I will never join another. All Federation premades are steam rolling animals who have caused the lack of players in ground pvp with their unspartsman-like behaivior. I have more fun in the FVK random teaming.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
1- your team will curb stomp a group of pugs with no resistance which is no fun for anyone.
2- your team will engage in a 40 minute battle through the same door against another premade which is not fun.
I like being myself. I like having a split of space and ground traits and playing how I want. I like using a compression pistol!
I don't like people telling me what to do and what to use. I don't like to take all day to complete my pvp daily mission. And finally, I don't like how 99% of the pvp ground community rages and rages over voice or zone chat and hold grudges. Most of them need an attitude adjustment.
I'll stay in my FVK with the occasional FVF when I think it's a random match. The FVF Q belongs to the premades. I stated in a prior thread that 4 ground pvp fleets are capable of running premades 24/7 and making sure the FVF Q is a barren wasteland where no one can enjoy themselves.
We need a random game/teaming mode for pvp for people who don't want to have to deal with these issues.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531