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Thoughts on ground PvP, ground PvP fleets, etc by Mcduffie
mcduffie369
Member Posts: 787 Arc User
For a MMO that is a disasterous statistic. Cryptic must do something.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
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Antoniosalieri has been Tricorder Scanned and Nanite Infested. Activating Strike Team, Target Optics, Battle Strategies, Ambush, Power Cell, and Fire On My Mark.
Aim, Sniper Shot!
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Noooooo Snake Dance, Snake Dance, Snake Dance!
I'll bow out now... sorry really don't know what they could do to make ground attractive to the masses.
OMG SHUT UP WITH THE EFFING "LOLGROUND" "DELETE GROUND" "GROUND SUCKS" AND ALL THAT BULLCRAP
I'm getting tired of spacers come in on ground pvp threads and saying the same bull TRIBBLE every time, yes we have flaws (your space isn't any better you know [newly cruiser builds with cruisers showing up all over queue using faw dem and a2b]) yes our population isnt as nearly as big as you "SPACERS" but us small group Love it just like you spacers love your space, so why all the hate? if you don't like playing / doing ground, ignore the queue and keep your mouth shut!
My guy is pathetically prepared for ground pvp, but more than enough to get through ground missions in pve for fun.
People want more ground pvp players then there is going to be a need to not cause space to be sacrificed for ground. I am not alone among my friends. We are willing to break into it and play it but not at the expense of space. We have our priorities and since the dev team made them competitive through the spec system and prevent us from the option of making a ground alt due to rep, we are just forced to avoid ground most the time.
My post was not meant to be a hate ground, I love fps games like battlefield and also ground games like mass effect and even SWKOR. But my priority is space, not ground. I would do ground if it were feasible for my characters to play it, but as it stands I have to choose. I do not hate the ground, I like the idea of it and wish it were more accessible, but the devs have implemented a competitive skill tree and as long as it is there or alts for just ground combat are rep grind free, there are a number of spacers that you will never see on ground pvp.
Picture PWE/Cryptic as parents.
They have five children...and some wonder if they'll have a sixth.
Space PvE
Ground PvE
Space PvP
Ground PvP
Space PvE Smallcraft
Space PvP Smallcraft (some wonder, not me - don't care, if this child shall be born)
Mom and Dad only have limited resources. Everybody knows that Space PvE and Ground PvE always get the most attention - even the baby Space PvE Smallcraft has gotten more attention of late.
That leaves the Space PvP and Ground PvP siblings vying for whatever table scraps are left...
...Space PvP may have stood over Ground PvP's bed in the middle of the night while holding a pillow - thinking real hard about doing it, but knowing that they couldn't - that Mom and Dad brought Ground PvP into the world, and it was up to them to get rid of it.
Oddly enough, it may be along the lines of the PvE folks stomping their feet if they mistakenly believe any attention is being given to the PvP folks at all, eh? Heck, it's like the Space PvE and Ground PvE folks going at it...
...everybody knows Cryptic has limited resources...so 'eff everybody else.
Speculation only but part of me imagines someone has been told to ignore PvP in the hopes that it will die off completely... as all the resources seem to be focused on PvE anyways.
Seriously what would you like cryptic to do... anything they do to make Ground PvP attractive to the people that "lolground" it now... is likely going to make the "50" or so people that enjoy it now to well likely not enjoy it.
The things I hear Ground PvP people in general say they like... are the very things that keep me from taking it serious at all.
I personly believe that premades shouldn't be allowed in either public que Space or Ground... I would like to see both ques dropped down to one each. Space Que and Ground Que... a back end Leaderboard tech similer to what Mancom has done creating as balanced a match as possible with the people qued. (queing teamed should get you into the same match, however not the same side, well unless the balancing tech decides thats the most balanced option.)
Do that to both ques ... and who knows perhaps there would be more new players willing to try out both PvP modes.
The problem is parents force them to live in the same room, break up the skill trees into pvp and pve, balance skill and abilities to pve then create quality factors to increase or decrease impacts in pvp for balance. You can't balance the pve and pvp. The PvP kids could do fine on their own, if they weren't forced into the hand me downs of their pve siblings.
It is a fact that until they make pve AI as good and diverse as pvp opponents.
Here is the rub, so much in pve is reduced or made less effective or enjoyable because the devs have pvp considerations. So even the pve people should want this, because it would allow them to have more abilities to use in pve without the pvp interference.
Ground ruled there, and space was the red headed stepchild.
XD
Edit: Which is all well and good, in that game space PvP required actual joysticks and fighter pilot skills. It was a twitch based full 360 degree axes space sim, quite a far cry from sub warfare of this game. If you didnt dodge everything incoming, you died. If you couldnt get your blaster bolts on your target, you couldnt win. There wasnt this auto targeting spacebar spamming automated derpmode we see here.
Ground was much the same. You didnt have 1-2-3-4 i win combos like was described earlier in the thread. Even a full stack of spy buffs didnt guarantee a oneshot kill, and always left you defenseless in the end.
You could win a 5 or 6 on 1 in that game if you were good enough. Here its numbers win every time. Especially the "right professions and ships".
The more I compare the PvP of this game to other games, especially those I have hardcore played, the more I get disenfranchised and want to retire from it here. Especially after fiascos like a certain group of "roleplay heroes" using 4 temporal ships and TIF on each with a recluse vs pugs and pugmades last night... I mean really? has pvp in this game really evolved into pugrolling for the sake of it?
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Now if cryptic separate them completely i would play both.
This also.
Why is it we can only go to 300k in space, but somehow ground doesnt have a limit?
I mean the only limit for ground is that you have to take points off space to do it. A dedicated ground toon doesnt have any drawbacks skillpoint wise.
Ground should cap its skillpoints allowed at 66000 just like its capped for space at 300k. Thats fair and already built in to the system.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
For years (and years) on MMORPG.com or other forums, there were folks that always wanted to mix the two. Yeah, I always dropped out a fat meh in reply. So yeah, that's likely what put me off from the start.
But at the same time, I could see why that would appeal to a bunch of folks...heh, I argued with enough of them over the years.
And as part of the game, it should be supported as much as possible by Cryptic - like any other part of the game, whether we enjoy it or not. Cause in the end, the more enjoyable things available to folks that enjoy different things...the more revenue streams that Cryptic will have overall and the better off STO could potentially be in the end.
Ground is capped at 100k. You can't fill Ground. There's 80k you can't spend.
Well, once Season 8 launches, you will be able to reach Tier III in all reputation systems. At Tier III you unlock almost everything you need to do well in Ground PvP. Reaching Tier V Omega Force will give you the Mk XII sets and the Omega 10 minute heal. Tier V New Romulus will give you the Plasma/Disruptor Hybrid weapons, but Tier III is all you need for the majority of Ground PvP. That really just leaves the actual leveling of a new character for ground PvP. Good news, it just so happens that Cryptic is running a double XP event at the moment.
The combo I described above requires two players to perform, a science officer and a tactical officer. You can live though it, but only if you have buff abilities active at that time. There are no i win attack combos in this game for ground. There are combinations intended to reach quick kills, but such attacks don't guarantee kills. Everything on the ground has a counter.
You've mentioned that you have had bad experiences with Ground PvP in the past. If you'd ever like to give learning Ground PvP a try, you are welcome to message me ingame, I'd be more than happy to help you.
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
I'd say the opposite...please delete Space and concentrate on ground LOL. Space is overrated...the real challenge is on GROUND
TROLL POST since this is a biased assessment:D:D:D
*notices antonio snake dancing, readies rifle*
Sorry couldn't resist.
Thats actually exactly why i like ground here, it combines the positive aspects of shooters and rpg's in one game and thus is differently from alot of other games.
a) no aiming - thus no aimbot kids.
b) fast paced action like a shooter.
c) line of sight covering like a shooter.
d) no idiotic circlestrafing nonsense many rpgs have.
e) small maps/games with even numbered teams, thus player quality > quantity.
Been playing tons of other games before and rarely i found one so close to perfection like this one here.. if we just didn't had all those bugs and maybe a couple more game modes/maps.
The big issue of ground rather is that anyone that would take on the adventure to play ground will find out that theres a ton of bugs and premades around and a bunch of those premades practice their people in taking advantage of those issues... like extreme kit-switching to circumvent ability cooldowns or distortion field/ranging techniques to hide visual indications on the ground that give players a clue what attack to dodge or map bugs (like mines exploding below the bridge in shanty hitting people above).
On top of the already _extreme_ disadvantage due to bugs theres also a steep learning curve on ground as it requires situational awareness, map knowledge, movement knowledge and class knowledge to win situations.
So yea if i'd had a friend new to the game pugging ground is probably one of the things i'd totally not recommend cause the odds are totally stacked against new comers until the devs focus a bit of resources on fixing the major bugs on ground.
Ha ha, we got the new battleground, emphasis on GROUND.
It really is no shock that little play it you can turn the xbox ps on and get a ten times better experience playing that format
My fleet plays both and we do fine. There is no 'need' to be fully specced into just one.
Agreed.
> Split skill tree resources.
> Split trait resources.
> Kits can't be customized.
> Movement doesn't feel fluid.
I'll also say that while in space we certainly have our share of OP items, or powers combinations, some of the weapons or items on ground do seem to be significantly worse.
I admit that maybe this is just my lack of experience at ground talking, but if I feel this way then its a good chance its the impression many players have.
Funny you mention that. We can't actually execute the "Picard maneuver". No tactical warp jump ability in combat space, which is one of the things I liked about Starfleet Command III.
And no, that Romulan ability doesn't count on my Fed ship. :mad:
Should see that positive too tho.. the fixed amount of kits allows,
a) to identify what your opponent uses so you can develope a strategy to deal with it.
b) identify when your opponent employs kit-switching bugs to stack buffs of different kits.
c) it ensures some sort of balance.
As example for c, lets look at fire-sci's.. sci is an extremely versatile class on ground, it can be a tank, a group healer or a top notch dps class that can atm easily outdo tac burst. However when a sci chooses to go dps heavy (fire-kit) the trade off is that theres zero heals on that kit so they are equally squishy as tac's.
If there ever will be kit-customization they need to put some limitations in place to avoid people combining powers at will otherwise we'll end up in a game were 2 out of 3 classes might end up to be rather pointless to play.. sorta like the problem engineers in space already faced. So tbh, i'd rather not see customizable kits at all.
Link: Anniversary Infographic
In order to get to fifty percent, the number of players would need to be around one million. If the ground PvE queues are of any indication, the game's overall population has declined significantly. During this time each year, I think "Star Trek: Online" hits a slight lull.