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Thoughts on ground PvP, ground PvP fleets, etc by Mcduffie

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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,109 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    new game... name the 50 ground pvpers... i'll start... (Character names only)

    Praxidike
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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    mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    On ground, the group that focuses fire and marauds together wins. It is not a matter of skill. A pack of players shatters a opposing group and then spends the rest of the match hunting them down as they respawn all over the map. A 5 man team will all run towards a single player who has just respawned and make sure he can not reconnect with his team. That is not sportsman like at all. It just shows me that a cheap win means more to these people than a fun game.

    I have been in the voice chats of premade teams. No one laughs or jokes. They cuss and rant like mad men. Anger abounds, and when they finally do laugh it is because they have pushed the opposing team back into their spawn and are camping them, calling them names, and patting themselves on the back. It is not a healthy experience.
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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,109 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    On ground, the group that focuses fire and marauds together wins. It is not a matter of skill. A pack of players shatters a opposing group and then spends the rest of the match hunting them down as they respawn all over the map. A 5 man team will all run towards a single player who has just respawned and make sure he can not reconnect with his team. That is not sportsman like at all. It just shows me that a cheap win means more to these people than a fun game.

    I have been in the voice chats of premade teams. No one laughs or jokes. They cuss and rant like mad men. Anger abounds, and when they finally do laugh it is because they have pushed the opposing team back into their spawn and are camping them, calling them names, and patting themselves on the back. It is not a healthy experience.

    Terran Assault Division yell at you?
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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    emp1591emp1591 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Two things you are mainly outdated about. Willpower, pre-Legacy of Romulus, was giving 99% resistance to control abilities (borderline immunity) with 9 points in willpower. Legacy of Romulus fixed this, scaling willpower down to 50% with 9 points in willpower (42% with 6 points). I've seen you a few times ingame and here on the forums say that you think willpower is now "broken", when in fact it was broken, and now it's fixed.

    The immunity to control was nice, I know how strange it is getting used to it, we all went through that process when Legacy of Romulus came out. At least from the last time I ran into you on ground, I've noticed you haven't fully adapted to that just yet, give it a month or two. It's not so much rust as it is relearning to resist control abilities. :)

    As for the mortars mentioned earlier in the thread, Cryptic has told us that their failing to despawn after an engineer dies is working as desired. They also said that having the engineer capable of despawning them is less than desirable, but they weren't planning to change it anytime soon. However, you were away from Star Trek Online when we received this information. Yes, mortar spam is annoying, but fabrication specialists are a the weakest kit class in the game right now.

    On the topic of honesty, you have been less than accurate in your descriptions of FS. For example saying that they kit swap, they don't kit swap, I've been playing ground PvP for 1 year and 7 months now and I've yet to see them kit swap. (I actually have the distinction of being the first person to use Covert + Stealth Module after the Covert fix because my character already had the trait, I'm the spawn of all cloakers, you're welcome) We discussed this two pages back now, I'd really prefer we didn't dive back into that again, what's past is past now. It could be that you didn't know that the information is inaccurate, but only you know for sure.

    However, I have seen them jump to biochemist duty officers when the other team was already using them. FS also uses Cryo Immobilizer Module, but that's a harder problem to fix. It is as Kata'klism said several pages back, the only way to fight Cryo is with Cryo. In two weeks Cryo will be fixed and every Ground PvPer will be using Emergency Fix, which is actually quite nice. It has no cooldown and I've seen it multiple procs active at one time on my medic (current record that I've noticed is 5 procs). Overall though, FS plays clean, unless the other team starts playing dirty. In which case, sometimes they will attempt to win in spite of it, other times they will "fight fire with fire" so to speak.

    I know there's been a long feud between FES and FS, but FS isn't as bad as some people in FES would have you believe. The same goes with FES, there are some very nice people there. However, as you know I was FES for a significant time period, there are some rather unsavory people there as well. Unsavory players aside, you have a good group of people, it would be really nice if this whole feud triangle would just die already.

    Well, like it or not willpower IS broken. The resistances it should give isn't accurate. And well, on my kit switching details... I actually learned about kit switching by watching FS do it. lol. So, I know without a doubt that my information is correct. lol. And well, KB was supposedly working as intended according to cryptic but its getting a "fix". Idk about you but seems like to me if something is working as intended how does it get fixed? O_o As we've seen in the past cryptic devs don't know anything about this game. But cool story.

    And, FS plays clean? Lmao.. sure. And you've been in sto for 1 year and 7 months? cool... I was here when the game started and then quit and came back and recently quit and came back again.

    And cryo on cryo is not the only solution, i mean... I don't use cryo and I still win almost all of my matches. XD so, that's not accurate. But anyways, I'm done arguing.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Working as intended"... 1 year later they "fix" it.
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    See though? In space you can potentially be dealing with tons of extra factors due to how many sets people can equip. On the ground, at most you will see someone in a full set, or a 2/2 split, or just a 2 piece, with something else.

    My point from all this is that ground, aside from a few errant items here and there, once you finally take out all the mechanics that are broken, is actually more balanced than people might think. Compared to space, where a good portion of the mechanics are ok, there's just a ****-ton of items and such that cause issues.

    I've been trying to convince Space PvPers of the above point for months now. Ground PvP in it's base form, even with the Omega Force gear, is very balanced. There really isn't much class imbalance as far as ground PvP is concerned. I will say though, Engineers and Tactical officers drew the short straw when Legacy of Romulus was released with class traits. Strike Team Specialist, Field Researcher, and Medical Vanguard are great traits. Shield Harmonic resonance needs to work for multiple damage types at one time, Situational Awareness is a waste (expose on grenade...), and Nanite Molecular Architecture needs to do something more than simple fabrication regeneration.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    nulonunulonu Member Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    emp1591 wrote: »
    Well, like it or not willpower IS broken. The resistances it should give isn't accurate. And well, on my kit switching details... I actually learned about kit switching by watching FS do it. lol. So, I know without a doubt that my information is correct. lol. And well, KB was supposedly working as intended according to cryptic but its getting a "fix". Idk about you but seems like to me if something is working as intended how does it get fixed? O_o As we've seen in the past cryptic devs don't know anything about this game. But cool story.

    It's obvious willpower was never supposed to provide total immunity to control powers since it was brought back into line. Spec into willpower still dramatically shortens the duration of control powers but doesn't negate their usefulness. This is as it should be IMHO. If you don't think it works, by all means don't spec into it. :P

    You are correct when cryptic stated knock back resistance was working correctly. It is still true on Holodeck. What was broken was melee powers themselves. For example; lunge has an exploit attack when a target is exposed. On an exposed target lunge has a knock back that bypasses resistance. It's supposed to have that power when the target is exposed. Currently on holo deck that knock back that bypasses resistance is always on. Hence unresistable chained knock backs from every melee ability that has that power. Hawk found the problem after we sent him a video of sword chaining knock back on someone using hunker down which is supposed to provide total immunity to knock back while on.

    I disagree with your assessment of the developers also. It's been my experience with any that I have talked to over the years that they want obvious bugs fixed as much as any of us. While I may disagree with some additions that are too easy to exploit known issues with (elachi cannon anyone?) little by little, and dare I say a great deal as they gear up for season 8, these issues are being addressed. As I said before, an exciting time to be a ground player. :)
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    mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    1 - extremely small, inactive community and underdeveloped fleet holdings due to this
    2 - quality of player personalities and low chances of forming lasting friendships
    3 - inactive community leads to little or no help in pve objectives

    We all know what time it is. So, let the flaming begin.

    In the long run your over all gaming experience will be lessened by focusing your attention on a ground fleet. It gets lonesome in a fleet that focuses on ground. At any given time there will be no one online to play with. The ground combat in this game is shunned by most of the community and you will be a part of a shrinking minority. IMO it is silly to focus on one play mode over another and we should embrace both at the same time.
    I enjoy the conversations and game play in a normal, active fleet 100 fold. I loaded my Avenger with elite space weapons this morning and we are all looking forward to running the Dyson content together.
    I never felt the energy of a online community while in the ground fleets. I felt isolated from all of the pve events and targeted by other ground pvp fleets because of the fleet tag I wore which felt more like a kick me sign.
    It is up to you to make your choice, but in the end participating in a ground fleet is like shooting yourself in the foot. The only thing they do is ground pvp and neglect all other team aspects of the game. I devoted almost a year to the ground pvp fleets and in the few weeks I have been in a regular fleet I have made more progress than the entire time I spent with the ground community and am over all happier.
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    buccaneerdtbbuccaneerdtb Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    How about kit stackers? You should know all about that, FES slave.
    mimey2 wrote: »
    In something Pug told me last night (I dunno if he minds me quoting him or not), '90% of what you do on the ground is using some kind of a broken, or buggy mechanic'.
    "Oh nice the PvP Bootcamp Coach has 29 kits; i knew you had that many since you're cheating(kit switching) like crazy but that even surprised me

    click here to see the exploiter in action
    We've ran with him as random PUGs, then a premade, and then inevitably brought him into our fleet. Biggs has always shown teamwork with us, participating in all aspects of the game while utilizing mumble voice. His immense knowledge of the game has taught our fleet about our builds and in 1 on 1s taught us where we needed to improve. We're happy to have him as a fleet mate. I do find it funny how people jump on him accusing him of exploits they themselves brag about using.
    alax2011 wrote: »
    with people with this attitude tords it there is no hope for the ground community, this is the main reason that the ground ques are getting worse and why the ground community has a nickname of LOLGROUND because unlike the space community, if the space community finds something isnt right they try (key word TRY) to make it where everyone knows NOT to use it, but the ground community is like "LOL Its broke, aww well I'm winning thats all that matters, who cares about a fair game"

    Memories of past posts.
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    seannewboyseannewboy Member Posts: 667 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Easy simple fix, instead of dil, have pvp give out mark choice boxes.
    New home of the Romulan Republic.
    I have an idea for what Season 11 should be; Season 11: The Big Bug Fix.
    I have not been able to read my bug tickets in over a year, not even the tickets about not being able to see my tickets.
    I find the drama of your signature proof of your immaturity, this means you, DR whiners.
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    buccaneerdtbbuccaneerdtb Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I am glad you found what you are looking for.

    You seem to want us to say more, but all I can offer is remarks about our fleet. We do far more STFs and PvE content than PvP. Our fleet is small, for reasons not related to PvP. We team up with other "ground" PvP fleets for STFs all the time. Many of our fleets have existed since launch, so they mean a lot to us.
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    buccaneerdtbbuccaneerdtb Member Posts: 575 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I have been in the voice chats of premade teams. No one laughs or jokes. They cuss and rant like mad men. Anger abounds, and when they finally do laugh it is because they have pushed the opposing team back into their spawn and are camping them, calling them names, and patting themselves on the back. It is not a healthy experience.

    Other fleets' premades use voice? We just type to talk, lol.
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    aquitaine985aquitaine985 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    LOLGround.

    Join the fleet that you think will give you the best experiences. Be that via certain ingame or real life talents, be that the people it includes you like to socialize with, be it it's size big or small.

    I'm sure there are plenty of reasons to join a fleet like TotS, and I'm sure there are reasons not too. That's personal choice for ya!

    Why make a thread though? There are aspects of my fleet that I don't like, but in the grand scheme I choose to be in it, and do my best to improve it. Same as anyone else.

    You don't like a fleet? Either leave it, or work to improve it in the area you wish in order to make it so.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    @Aquitaine985
    Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
    A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
    2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
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    mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    While it is always up to the player to decide for him/herself I would never have gotten elite phasers for my Avenger while clawing and desperately hoping that the ground community would grow and flourish. For one to put focus and emphasis on the ground in a game that boasts a line up of ships is illogical. Ground fleets will always have the problem of a small player base and undeveloped fleet holdings, and that is only the tip of the iceberg.
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    suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    1 - extremely small, inactive community and underdeveloped fleet holdings due to this
    2 - quality of player personalities and low chances of forming lasting friendships
    3 - inactive community leads to little or no help in pve objectives

    We all know what time it is. So, let the flaming begin.

    In the long run your over all gaming experience will be lessened by focusing your attention on a ground fleet. It gets lonesome in a fleet that focuses on ground. At any given time there will be no one online to play with. The ground combat in this game is shunned by most of the community and you will be a part of a shrinking minority. IMO it is silly to focus on one play mode over another and we should embrace both at the same time.
    I enjoy the conversations and game play in a normal, active fleet 100 fold. I loaded my Avenger with elite space weapons this morning and we are all looking forward to running the Dyson content together.
    I never felt the energy of a online community while in the ground fleets. I felt isolated from all of the pve events and targeted by other ground pvp fleets because of the fleet tag I wore which felt more like a kick me sign.
    It is up to you to make your choice, but in the end participating in a ground fleet is like shooting yourself in the foot. The only thing they do is ground pvp and neglect all other team aspects of the game. I devoted almost a year to the ground pvp fleets and in the few weeks I have been in a regular fleet I have made more progress than the entire time I spent with the ground community and am over all happier.

    I guess Hammer could be considered a ground fleet. But everything you post here is really on you. You were with us for a while. You know someone is on most of the time. You've been on our Mumble server. The isolation you feel may be because you talk nonsense that no one can understand and email people that someone stole your chicken sandwich. I can honestly say that I have definitely mad lasting friendships both from the fleet and o her ground players. Our holdings may be growing slowly, but are growing. I think, honestly, to fix what you perceive as a problem, you need to evaluate your own social skills. And I say that as advice for real life too. People are less put off by unintelligent ramble.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
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    emp1591emp1591 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    1 - extremely small, inactive community and underdeveloped fleet holdings due to this
    2 - quality of player personalities and low chances of forming lasting friendships
    3 - inactive community leads to little or no help in pve objectives

    We all know what time it is. So, let the flaming begin.

    In the long run your over all gaming experience will be lessened by focusing your attention on a ground fleet. It gets lonesome in a fleet that focuses on ground. At any given time there will be no one online to play with. The ground combat in this game is shunned by most of the community and you will be a part of a shrinking minority. IMO it is silly to focus on one play mode over another and we should embrace both at the same time.
    I enjoy the conversations and game play in a normal, active fleet 100 fold. I loaded my Avenger with elite space weapons this morning and we are all looking forward to running the Dyson content together.
    I never felt the energy of a online community while in the ground fleets. I felt isolated from all of the pve events and targeted by other ground pvp fleets because of the fleet tag I wore which felt more like a kick me sign.
    It is up to you to make your choice, but in the end participating in a ground fleet is like shooting yourself in the foot. The only thing they do is ground pvp and neglect all other team aspects of the game. I devoted almost a year to the ground pvp fleets and in the few weeks I have been in a regular fleet I have made more progress than the entire time I spent with the ground community and am over all happier.

    Hmm, well, I guess your grandmother didnt give you enough attention this week or something. I'm guessing she didnt give you money for a happy meal while you were over hijacking wifi from McDonalds?

    Whatever be the case, you obviously dont know what you're talking about. I mean, I for one run PVE everyday for marks and dil and I never have a problem getting a team together. Perhaps your life just sucks and you have no friends? :/ I also am not sure which fleet you are referring to as under-developed but, the ground fleets I am part of are rather developed nicely.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Working as intended"... 1 year later they "fix" it.
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    mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Also, ground players attitudes can be extremely volatile as you can clearly see by the posts from Hammer in my thread.
    emp1591 wrote: »
    Hmm, well, I guess your grandmother didnt give you enough attention this week or something. I'm guessing she didnt give you money for a happy meal while you were over hijacking wifi from McDonalds?
    The isolation you feel may be because you talk nonsense that no one can understand and email people that someone stole your chicken sandwich. I think, honestly, to fix what you perceive as a problem, you need to evaluate your own social skills. And I say that as advice for real life too. People are less put off by unintelligent ramble.
    thay8472 wrote: »
    Attention seeking or just trolling for the sake of it? I can't tell
    emp1591 wrote: »
    Wait, wait... I am not only Hammer and neither is thay. Give the other fleets credit as well. Also, Unfortunately I am not only a ground pvper but a space pvper as well... I guess space fleets should be banned from the game also for my "volatile" actions?
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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,109 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Attention seeking or just trolling for the sake of it? I can't tell
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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    emp1591emp1591 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Also, ground players attitudes can be extremely volatile as you can clearly see by the posts from Hammer in my thread.

    Wait, wait... I am not only Hammer and neither is thay. Give the other fleets credit as well. Also, Unfortunately I am not only a ground pvper but a space pvper as well... I guess space fleets should be banned from the game also for my "volatile" actions?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Working as intended"... 1 year later they "fix" it.
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    docducksdocducks Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    3 - inactive community leads to little or no help in pve objectives

    this is a pvp thread?
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    suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Also, ground players attitudes can be extremely volatile as you can clearly see by the posts from Hammer in my thread.

    I admit my personality is abrasive. But that doesn't nullify the fact you stopped using mumble. Or went on about aliens in fleet chat and uttered pure nonsense. I'm just giving you friendly advice like Doc did when you took a majority of provisions and left. People are put off by other people that don't at least try to have intelligent conversations. Its just a fact of life.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
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    suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    docducks wrote: »
    this is a pvp thread?

    Wait. Objectives in PVE? So I guess we nvr get optionals? So when you, Ryche, and I hot optional on a 3 man KAGE that never happened? Or that 2 man Nukara outside? Or when we go 5 deep and rock out both sides of KAGE at once?
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
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    mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I admit my personality is abrasive. But that doesn't nullify the fact you stopped using mumble. Or went on about aliens in fleet chat and uttered pure nonsense. I'm just giving you friendly advice like Doc did when you took a majority of provisions and left. People are put off by other people that don't at least try to have intelligent conversations.

    !Bought! provisions from the Dil mine, much needed engineering consoles for my Galaxy X and decided to leave the next day. I quit using mumble because Doc was the only person nice enough to talk to or knew how to laugh at a joke.
    Wait. Objectives in PVE? So I guess we nvr get optionals? So when you, Ryche, and I hot optional on a 3 man KAGE that never happened? Or that 2 man Nukara outside? Or when we go 5 deep and rock out both sides of KAGE at once?

    I don't remember these things because a KAGE optional is as common as it comes. KAGE is on farm status and has been since it was added to the Q. A pug group can get the optional on KAGE just about every time.
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    simeion1simeion1 Member Posts: 898 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    1 - extremely small, inactive community and underdeveloped fleet holdings due to this
    2 - quality of player personalities and low chances of forming lasting friendships
    3 - inactive community leads to little or no help in pve objectives

    We all know what time it is. So, let the flaming begin.

    Yes some of these fleets are small, but most of them are tight Mitch group of people that develope a true friendship. They don't go bouncing between fleets to take advantage of people. Yourself was with Hammer, right before you left you rapped our mine provisions then left us, this will let people know what you did to us. Who is the problem? Let you know our fleet holding are fine with the amount of people we have. Mine that is finished with an embassy. Last time I looked I had most of PvE accolades.

    Here are some questions you might want to ask yourself.

    How many fleets have you been in in the last year? This might be part of these problem.

    Your current fleet did you help get it to teir five or are you using them to suit your needs also?

    Did you find your chicken sandwich?


    Looks to me fleets are not the issue.

    Maybe I snorted to much crushed up Tholians? But can we have relevant conversations in the forums.

    Will a moderator or Dev close this post so we can get to real issues instead of people trolling other, if not his is going to be another forum blog that is going to be a he said she said.
    320x240.jpg
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    mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    simeion1 wrote: »
    How many fleets have you been in in the last year? Did you find your chicken sandwich?Maybe I snorted to much crushed up Tholians?

    I admit, once I left my first fleet of 2 years due to time zone problems I was adrift. But, I have now linked back up with some of my old friends from that fleet who are now running a very good fleet and am happy to be there.

    I did not find my chicken sandwich. The search continues.

    The tholians thing was my joke!!!! I still tell it, and people still laugh.
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    majortiraomegamajortiraomega Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Please everyone, stop feeding him, this is his 6th thread in the last 10 days about how "ruined" ground PvP is right now. We all know that ground is fine, we've explained this to him multiple times, yet he continues to make more threads. At this point it's obvious he's only here to lay down troll bait and spark drama on the forums. If nobody replies, he has nothing to go on.
    --->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
    --->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
    Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
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    emp1591emp1591 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Please everyone, stop feeding him, this is his 6th thread in the last 10 days about how "ruined" ground PvP is right now. We all know that ground is fine, we've explained this to him multiple times, yet he continues to make more threads. At this point it's obvious he's only here to lay down troll bait and spark drama on the forums. If nobody replies, he has nothing to go on.

    I can't believe I'm saying this but, for once I actually agree with you. lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Working as intended"... 1 year later they "fix" it.
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    mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Please everyone, stop feeding him, this is his 6th thread in the last 10 days about how "ruined" ground PvP is right now. We all know that ground is fine, we've explained this to him multiple times, yet he continues to make more threads. At this point it's obvious he's only here to lay down troll bait and spark drama on the forums. If nobody replies, he has nothing to go on.

    I am proving a point. I can not help it if players from my previous fleet who helped me develop this opinion of mine have chosen to get involved in my thread. If anything this thread is a warning for players not to allow themselves to be held back by the belief that participating in a ground fleet is in any way rewarding or profitable. It was a waste of time.
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    suuperduudesuuperduude Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Bought provisions from the Dil mine, engineering consoles for my Galaxy X. Decided to leave the next day. And I quit using mumble because Doc was the only person nice enough to talk to or knew how to laugh at a joke.

    We all can take a joke. What we couldn't take was out of the blue off the wall ramblings. Especially when a conversation is going on and its out of place. And its rude to take something the entire fleet put resources in to get and then leave.

    I don't remember these things because a KAGE optional is as common as it comes. KAGE is on farm status and has been since it was added to the Q. A pug group can get the optional on KAGE just about every time.

    Regardless. We do it all the time on all PVEs. Either way it shoots down you point about objectives in PVE.
    --
    Lion Heart of Hammer Squadron
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    mcduffie369mcduffie369 Member Posts: 787 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    We all can take a joke. We do it all the time on all PVEs. Either way it shoots down you point about objectives in PVE.

    I disagree.
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