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Official Dyson Joint Command Reputation Feedback Thread

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    neok182neok182 Member Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Good morning testers! Thanks for your feedback, we really appreciate it. I wanted to take a moment to address some concerns and answer some questions:

    If you were progressing through the other older reps by logging in, doing a queue or two and earning enough marks and resources to kick off your XP projects and then logging off (or switching characters) you will find yourself progressing through the new rep to be a bit slower. However, we wanted the progress through the Dyson Joint Command rep to be more about the journey than the destination. Here's what I mean:

    -At each tier you'll unlock top end gear. There's no Mk X, Mk XI or blue gear. It's all top of the line! So, there's that.

    -At each tier you'll automatically unlock a dilithium store that sells awesome Mk XII purple gear. No need to run store projects anymore.

    -Each 200 XP (1 hour) project you kick off awards you as much Dilithium as the 800 XP (20 hour) project. Which means if you're actively running these projects you'll net a lot more dilithium ore than you would from previous reps.

    -Filling the inputs on each 200 XP (1 hour) project also immediately awards you with a random Mk XII item that is normally found in the dilithium stores unlocked by each tier. This also applies to the 2000 XP daily project as well.

    -If you choose to not run the 200 XP hourly projects you can save those Dyson Marks you've earned for kicking off equipment projects.

    -We're still finalizing all the numbers.


    Thanks for testing!
    Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski

    First off, thank you for responding to this.


    Having a bit more explanation of this does make it seem a lot better. More dilithum is always nice. I do still wish that a standard 800 project existed. basically 4x the current 200 for requirements but not for reward.

    This way those of us who can't spend the time on can still get there as quickly, and those of us who can can take advantage of it. and we can also take advantage of both when we know we have the time to spend a few hours in game.

    It's just an idea.

    Getting a box from all of these projects is a huge bonus and will make doing these much more enjoyable. It would be awesome to have a full set of weapons by the time we even reach T5.
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    neok182neok182 Member Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    What 800 XP project? I only see a 200 XP and a 2000 XP (at Tier 0).

    he means each 200xp dyson xp project gives as much dilithum as a 800xp project on the other 3 reps.

    so for the same 800xp you get 4x the dilithum.
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    gorngonzollagorngonzolla Member Posts: 172 Cryptic Developer
    edited October 2013
    What 800 XP project? I only see a 200 XP and a 2000 XP (at Tier 0).

    Sorry, that wasn't very clear. I was comparing the 200 XP projects from the Dyson Joint Command reputation vs. the 800 XP project from the older reps. The point being that you'll get more dilithium over time.

    Regards,
    Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
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    z3ndor99z3ndor99 Member Posts: 1,391 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Well thanks for the update there gorngonzolla has answered a few questions, at the moment because of the one voth mission it just seems slow, i did notice there is a daily available in the mission tab, interesting as it awards 50 dyson marks an 960 dill, will this be on top of the standard ground rewards? Can't wait to see the new content and what you've got instore for our alts?!
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    hevachhevach Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Gorngonzolla, I have a question/concern about the commendations: Twitter posts and patch notes seem to imply you can only get one of these a day.

    Your bit posts gives some logic for the situation for players who log in, queue up to start their projects, then log out, but there's another kind of player with the rep system: The one who logs in for a few hours on the weekend, stockpiles up a couple hundred marks, and then logs in briefly throughout the week to queue up projects.

    From what I'm reading (and I have to admit I've been unable to get a queue or anything to pop to test it myself) this kind of player will be hurt pretty severely by this progression system. Can we really not stockpile commendations ahead of time?
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    gorngonzollagorngonzolla Member Posts: 172 Cryptic Developer
    edited October 2013
    hevach wrote: »
    Gorngonzolla, I have a question/concern about the commendations: Twitter posts and patch notes seem to imply you can only get one of these a day.

    Your bit posts gives some logic for the situation for players who log in, queue up to start their projects, then log out, but there's another kind of player with the rep system: The one who logs in for a few hours on the weekend, stockpiles up a couple hundred marks, and then logs in briefly throughout the week to queue up projects.

    From what I'm reading (and I have to admit I've been unable to get a queue or anything to pop to test it myself) this kind of player will be hurt pretty severely by this progression system. Can we really not stockpile commendations ahead of time?

    You can only earn one Commendation per day. So, you can't really stockpile these up. You can stockpile up Dyson Marks though, which you can use for small XP projects or equipment projects.
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    mimey2mimey2 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    You can only earn one Commendation per day. So, you can't really stockpile these up. You can stockpile up Dyson Marks though, which you can use for small XP projects or equipment projects.

    Then can I ask for a request, Gorgonzolla?

    Can we have some kind of timer SOMEWHERE, in any form, I don't mind what, that tells us how long we need to wait. That is one of the bigger issues folks have had with the previous and new CE events: No idea on how long you have to wait on getting another shard.

    Sure you can keep track well enough of time, but it's still more work than I really feel should be necessary for such a thing. If there was some kind of timer, or daily mission, or something that we could look at without too much fuss, it'd be a really really nice QoL extra for the players.

    Anywho, I do like the new rep so far. Obviously all we have atm is Storming the Spire, but that's alright, stuff takes time, totally get that. The 2000 xp one is great and I can tell it's meant to be the main source of progression, while the 200 xp one is meant to be supplementary, and I'm ok with that.

    If you do only the 2000 xp project every day, and we need 100k rep, that is 50 days to finish it. If in an old rep you do both the 2000 and 800, that is 35.7 (or basically 36) days it takes to finish. Doing the 2000 xp and one 200 xp mission every day with this new rep means it will take 45.45 days (or basically 46)

    Sure that is longer, but it's not like it is going anywhere. But that isn't my big worry. My big worry in regards to rep is how it relates to alts. Though you did mention there was gonna be a reveal of some kind soon in regards to that, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in good faith and sit and wait to see what happens.

    P.S. I'm glad the tier 5 power is a ground power. That would've been an absolute MONSTER in space.
    I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
    I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
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    lordhavelocklordhavelock Member Posts: 2,248 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I played around with Tribble a bit over the weekend and did some math (along the lines of what ikuruyo posted above), and I have the following thoughts on the new Rep:

    Earning only one Commendation per day is awful. You're already time-gating us with the 20hr project, there's no need to also time-gate us on getting the resource needed to run the project. If you feel double-time-gating really is necessary, at least allow us to earn a Commendation once per hour or two. That way weekend warriors have the possibility to stock up for the coming week's Rep inputs.

    Earning only 200 Rep XP on the "small project" is bad. Sure it completes in an hour, but it overall will take more Marks and more time in-game to get 800 Rep XP. Meaning, most players, myself included, are only going to be able to earn 2200 Rep XP per day.

    Most players are highly unlikely to get ahead. Having the "small project" finish in 1hr offers the possible advantage of earning more than 800 Rep XP per day (if we play for 5+hrs), but for most players like myself, that's unlikely to happen but maybe once or twice a week, and even then it's not going to be enough to offset the loss of 800-per day Rep, much less actually get ahead.

    There is far less "Slider-Grind" in this Rep. Having fewer inputs and taking EC directly (instead of having to shop for commodities and ground consumables) really reduced a lot of the mindless clicky/slider button-pushing. This is great! Thanks for this. I really can't wait for this to be retro-fitted back to the other Reps.

    Getting a reward box at the start of the Rep is groovy. I'm not sure how useable these items will be, honestly, but it's interesting. That's for sure. And I kind of like the "lottery" feeling of opening a box and maybe there's something good inside. So far all I've got is vendor trash, but it helps pay the EC needed for the Rep, so even that's not bad. I always like free. It would be good if there were some really good chase-prizes in those boxes (maybe you could post a list of possible prizes?).


    Others have brought this up, and I wonder the answer... How many (if any) Fleet Modules are going to be required to get the Fleet Veteran ships? For all the money paid into the game to unlock the standard Vet Ships, I honestly think the cost should be restricted to just Fleet EC (even if it's 200k). Maybe add 1 Fleet Module as well... I'd be ok with that, but I'm against the cost being 4-5 Fleet modules.

    I'd also like to weigh-in that I'm unhappy with Fleet ships being locked behind another holding. They should be in the Fleet Starbase. T5 is fine, but keep them in the existing Shipyards.

    You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Playing STO since Feb 2010.
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    pwebranflakespwebranflakes Member Posts: 7,741
    edited October 2013
    mimey2 wrote: »
    Can we have some kind of timer SOMEWHERE, in any form, I don't mind what, that tells us how long we need to wait.

    Your timer is the reputation project :) Input the commendation into the rep project, and it starts the 20 hour timer. You'll know you will be able to collect another one once the project is complete.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=
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    stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Your timer is the reputation project :) Input the commendation into the rep project, and it starts the 20 hour timer. You'll know you will be able to collect another one once the timer is complete.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=

    Only if you start the project the instant you receive the comm. Get sidetracked, distracted, disconnected or any other conceivable scenario where said project isn't set to cook immediately and you've got a situation where you can quite reasonably have no clue when your next comm is available.
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    verline1verline1 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The dyson Poleron weapons, the procs kinda meh for anyone not crit heavy, but will they be getting their own skins, right now they just use standard poloron weapon skins*
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    druhindruhin Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Your timer is the reputation project :) Input the commendation into the rep project, and it starts the 20 hour timer. You'll know you will be able to collect another one once the project is complete.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=

    That's not exactly what he meant. Your comment, suggests that a person completes the daily, gets the commendation, and immediately uses said commendation to start the 20 hour project. A person could just as easily hold off starting the 20 hour project for several hours/days/weeks.

    Point being? Needs a more prominent timer when you can receive a new commendation. Perhaps a warning text before queueing? (this applies to Crystalline Entity as well)
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    z3ndor99z3ndor99 Member Posts: 1,391 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Yeah i to would like to see a unique skin for the new weapons, all ways thought the polaron guns looked goofy ( antiproton weapons.... well not saying a word ).
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    pwebranflakespwebranflakes Member Posts: 7,741
    edited October 2013
    Only if you start the project the instant you receive the comm. Get sidetracked, distracted, disconnected or any other conceivable scenario where said project isn't set to cook immediately and you've got a situation where you can quite reasonably have no clue when your next comm is available.

    This is true; however, I imagine the vast majority will start their projects shortly after receiving the commendation.

    What I should have said is: You can use your reputation project as a timer*

    As for an actual timer somewhere, Gorngonzolla may know more about the possibility of this.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=
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    milanvoriusmilanvorius Member Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    You can only earn one Commendation per day. So, you can't really stockpile these up. You can stockpile up Dyson Marks though, which you can use for small XP projects or equipment projects.

    This is going to take so much longer for those that play chunks of time every few days.

    Why not permit the stockpiling? How would that be an exploit or anything negative? We are playing the missions you want us to play, let us play them as our schedule permits please.
    PvE Jem'Hadar motto: Participation Ribbons are life.
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    gorngonzollagorngonzolla Member Posts: 172 Cryptic Developer
    edited October 2013
    verline1 wrote: »
    The dyson Poleron weapons, the procs kinda meh for anyone not crit heavy, but will they be getting their own skins, right now they just use standard poloron weapon skins*

    Protonic Polaron weapons will use existing polaron visuals.
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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,103 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Can we just have account bound reputation?

    or X token from a character at tier 5, we can then trade to another toon to knock of X% of the grind?
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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    pwebranflakespwebranflakes Member Posts: 7,741
    edited October 2013
    thay8472 wrote: »
    or X token from a character at tier 5, we can then trade to another toon to knock of X% of the grind?

    Did you bug our office or something? :P This is exactly what we are considering doing. We'll share more details as things get locked down, as it's completely subject to change.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=
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    z3ndor99z3ndor99 Member Posts: 1,391 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Hmmm things just got interesting....
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    neok182neok182 Member Posts: 551 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    verline1 wrote: »
    The dyson Poleron weapons, the procs kinda meh for anyone not crit heavy, but will they be getting their own skins, right now they just use standard poloron weapon skins*

    What is the proc? i'm guessing from your crit heavy comment it's AP+polaron?
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    noctusxxxnoctusxxx Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    The thing that bothers me about this rep system, is that you seem to not be taking in the lessons from previous reps.

    The reason the Omega rep is still the most popular, is that the missions and rewards give the players the most satisfaction for the time they are investing.

    When I see comments stating that the Omega Rep reward levels are an anomaly, that tells me that you are not really listening to us. The way Omega rep runs should be the standard, and Nukara and Romulan rep should be brought up to its level. And this new system should as well.

    But it feels like you have already forgotten the player revolt you caused when you tried bashing the Omega rep down to these lower level of rewards the last time.

    Some of the new reward ideas here might work to equal out towards being like Omega rep, but over all you are putting to much emphasis on grinding. Please do not repeat past mistakes. Instead take season 8 as an opportunity to bring the other reps and this new rep all up to Omegas level, and give us more varied options for completing these projects.

    The people who give you the most money for this game, in terms of zen, are the people who you will upset the most by making us feel like we are doing twice the work for half the reward.
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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,103 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Did you bug our office or something? :P This is exactly what we are considering doing. We'll share more details as things get locked down, as it's completely subject to change.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=

    No... nor did I put some some sticky notes saying "Velociraptor mounts for ground pvp"
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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    atatassaultatatassault Member Posts: 1,008 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    neok182 wrote: »
    What is the proc? i'm guessing from your crit heavy comment it's AP+polaron?
    It's a 25% chance on crit to deal like 70 extra Proton damage or 150 vs Voth (on ground; no idea how much extra it is in space).
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    f8explorer#7814 f8explorer Member Posts: 1,328 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    You can only earn one Commendation per day. So, you can't really stockpile these up. You can stockpile up Dyson Marks though, which you can use for small XP projects or equipment projects.

    Ok ... so you can stockpile for the smaller projects.

    Will we be able to kick off these smaller projects via gateway?

    I ask because one concern has been that many log in once or twice each day and handle business with the new smaller projects going against that kind of play.
    Joint Forces Commander ... / ... proud member of ... boq botlhra'ghom / AllianceCenCom!
    " We stand TOGETHER and fight with HONOR!"

    U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
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    toivatoiva Member Posts: 3,276 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    As others, I'm wary of the '1 commendation per 20 hrs' rule. There are simply days when I can't/don't want to play and I merely log in for 'maintenance' - that is starting reps, if I'm running them on a given toon, starting doff missions, refine dil ...

    In this particular case, I could only start one 200xp project in that day, which is very underwhelming, even if the next day I play for 2-3 hrs and start both the 2 000xp project and another 2-3 200xp ones. The current reputations would allow me to slot both projects for a total of 2 800xp every day, on the other hand, even if I take a day off and only perform said 'maintenance'.


    In short, there should be a way of stockpiling the commendations.

    (Of course, this unpleasantness might be somewhat offset with your solution to alt rep system, but I'm not too optimistic.)


    EDIT: Or give a larger variety of projects, some day long, some shorter... with according mark costs and xp rewards. The important part here is that you can start a 'significant' xp project every day, even if you didn't have time to get the commendation.
    TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class.
    Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
    Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.

    Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
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    f8explorer#7814 f8explorer Member Posts: 1,328 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    noctusxxx wrote: »
    The reason the Omega rep is still the most popular, is that the missions and rewards give the players the most satisfaction for the time they are investing.

    When I see comments stating that the Omega Rep reward levels are an anomaly, that tells me that you are not really listening to us. The way Omega rep runs should be the standard, and Nukara and Romulan rep should be brought up to its level. And this new system should as well.

    Yeap ... That's me ... I have gone much further with more toons in the Omega than the other two rep systems.

    Heck ... I tend to ignore the others past say Tier II with many toons not getting that high on them.

    The small reward vs. time and energy = not worth it.

    The more I hear the more I'm thinking of skipping this reputation system.
    Joint Forces Commander ... / ... proud member of ... boq botlhra'ghom / AllianceCenCom!
    " We stand TOGETHER and fight with HONOR!"

    U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
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    zeuxidemus001zeuxidemus001 Member Posts: 3,357 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    Did you bug our office or something? :P This is exactly what we are considering doing. We'll share more details as things get locked down, as it's completely subject to change.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=

    Well when you have 20+ characters you don't exactly want to grind stuff so much that you end up getting burned out or hating the game lol. It really should just be a flat out do it once and then any character you do it on is using its tokens/marks for the gear itself.
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    thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,103 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    genhauk wrote: »
    Yeap ... That's me ... I have gone much further with more toons in the Omega than the other two rep systems.

    Heck ... I tend to ignore the others past say Tier II with many toons not getting that high on them.

    The small reward vs. time and energy = not worth it.

    The more I hear the more I'm thinking of skipping this reputation system.

    Pretty much this... i'll go all the way with Omega.. then stop at tier 3 with the romulan and nukara reps.
    2gdi5w4mrudm.png
    Typhoon Class please!
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    canis36canis36 Member Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    genhauk wrote: »
    Yeap ... That's me ... I have gone much further with more toons in the Omega than the other two rep systems.

    Heck ... I tend to ignore the others past say Tier II with many toons not getting that high on them.

    The small reward vs. time and energy = not worth it.

    The more I hear the more I'm thinking of skipping this reputation system.

    Funny, I'm thinking the exact opposite as time goes on. I'll admit to being highly skeptical of the whole thing to begin with, but as time goes on I'm starting to think it's a better implementation than the previous ones.

    Also, it's in another thread, but Gorngonzola said that the current rewards levels are not fixed and that currently the gear projects - which are supposed to be on par with the T5 Omega Rep stuff - have lower mark requirements than any of their counterparts in the other rep systems. I'm still waiting to see just how much lower, but I'm thinking that this implementation has the potential to take a large amount of grind feeling out of the rep systems when you're just doing one or two characters.
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    milanvoriusmilanvorius Member Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    canis36 wrote: »
    Funny, I'm thinking the exact opposite as time goes on. I'll admit to being highly skeptical of the whole thing to begin with, but as time goes on I'm starting to think it's a better implementation than the previous ones.

    Also, it's in another thread, but Gorngonzola said that the current rewards levels are not fixed and that currently the gear projects - which are supposed to be on par with the T5 Omega Rep stuff - have lower mark requirements than any of their counterparts in the other rep systems. I'm still waiting to see just how much lower, but I'm thinking that this implementation has the potential to take a large amount of grind feeling out of the rep systems when you're just doing one or two characters.

    perhaps the repxp/mark ratio is better but now the project length/repxp is off. We have to log in every hour to get teh 200xp mission. THere is no reason to offer a 200 for 1 hr, 400 for 2 hr, etc up to 1000 for 5 hr or more. Let us play the game and go to work, pick the kids up from school, and come home while the timer is still working.
    PvE Jem'Hadar motto: Participation Ribbons are life.
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