I would really like to know how this will work.
Potentially getting banned from the queues for 2 hours because one has to answer the phone or deal with any kind of emergency would not be cool.
Me too - I just got an STF leaver penalty for 1 hour during bonus time and I was never even put into the INSTANCE!! I am mad as HECK!!
I really hope they create a smart system for this.
My kdf eng on a carrier for example does not move a lot, he uses pets..if I would try to follow enemies, I would be out of battle for some time because I can't turn fast and fly back to the team. If something like " minimum travelled distance" is part of the system, my eng will be angry!
Also I have been facing the dissapearing boff bug on most of my toons many many times, will I now have to decide between risking 1,5 min. to rearrange my hotbar or go to battle with nearly no special ability?
Last but not least: I noticed players in ESTFs with the following problems:
- player is new to the game and just does not know what to do
- they are still on a t3 ship but level 50
- bad, common equipment
- they did not know they can SPEND skillpoints in one of the UI windows
- they take their time to read the missiontext
- healing and supporting eng and sci
What about those players if damage is the main criteria?
I would love to see this new and surely needed software tested well to make sure it does not punish the teamplay oriented player!
I bet that's just going to move the problem from afkers to bots...
I've played other mmos where kick-votes have been implemented for years now, and it's never been an issue for me.
name them, which doesn't really matter because you could have just been lucky not to run into the trolls. i have seen them in other games with vote kick systems. even if the loot goes straight to inventory, they'll do it just to hear that person talk about them in chat or on the forums.
every game with a kick system has people who abuse it. it's less likely in games where loot is personlized over drops at end boss that have to be rolled for, but trolls just enjoy TRIBBLE with people. and if you think there aren't any in sto that would abuse the system...nice rainbow colored world you live in.
Dr. Patricia Tanis ~ "Bacon is for sycophants and products of incest."
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
While I truly believe Their intentions are good, we all should be very wary of how, more often than not...,
... this leads to bad decisions being implemented.
I just hope They are quick to 'adjust' this addition, if it all goes south.
<shrug>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I've played other mmos where kick-votes have been implemented for years now, and it's never been an issue for me.
You're lucky then. I've had problems with vote kicking. In 5 man dungeon public queues I've gotten groups with four guildmates who spent the entire time trolling me, and at the end vote kicking me right before the final boss.
And I know there are fleets here in STO who would do the exact same thing, some even making it their mission to abuse it all the time. Vote kicking will not work.
This AFK feature also has the potential to cause headaches. It depends on the timer but I can see people getting 2 hour bans because RL temporarily called them away, even if it's for a bio break. That said, most STO maps do not take too long to play so unlike other MMOs where I've been caught after a bio break by a 3 minute AFK timer on a map that can take well over an hour to finish, it shouldn't be a widespread problem here. But it will be a problem. People will get 2 hour bans because RL called.
Let's just hope the timer allows for annoying RL to interfere with our important videogame time because it does happen, and RL always comes first, as a rule.
if they do not disable the auto follow ability in queued events, you will still have afk farmers.
but battle cloaking to the gate would be fun lol, but yeah, we all need to go to redshirt and test ways to be not be AFK while being AFK and provide constructive feedback.
I actually think they should allow players to flag another player as AFK. This would not be used as a kick vote, but as data to train and evaluate their decision rule. They must have variables that they use to determine whether a player is AFK: damage, healing, key presses, etc. Right now, they don't have a good way to determine whether their decision rule is accurate. Sure, you can attempt to pollute the data by erroneously flagging other players as AFK. But why would you? You can't force the other player to be penalized, and you will only increase the number of false positives, making it more likely that you may be erroneously penalized yourself.
I actually think they should allow players to flag another player as AFK. This would not be used as a kick vote, but as data to train and evaluate their decision rule. They must have variables that they use to determine whether a player is AFK: damage, healing, key presses, etc. Right now, they don't have a good way to determine whether their decision rule is accurate. Sure, you can attempt to pollute the data by erroneously flagging other players as AFK. But why would you? You can't force the other player to be penalized, and you will only increase the number of false positives, making it more likely that you may be erroneously penalized yourself.
people get spam flagged as spammers all the time from trolls. I'm sure the same thing will happen with any player flagging set-up.
people get spam flagged as spammers all the time from trolls. I'm sure the same thing will happen with any player flagging set-up.
Maybe, I was not clear. The player flags are to be used in aggregate for statistical purposes. Let's say that every month the algorithm is retrained with new data. Flagging a player as AFK doesn't cause him to be penalized. At most, it will make some adjustments to the algorithm and cause other players to be penalized a month from now.
The thing is if you make it so you can flag someone you suspect is an AFK leech then what will begin to happen is as soon as you warp into an STF PUG if you ship does not measure up to their standards, they will flag you immediately so you hopefully get the 2 hr penalty and can't get into their PUG's for two hrs after that...
No matter how they implement this I can see it causing far more problems then what we have now. To avoid afk leechers all you need to do is form groups for STF's with your fleet because it is unlikely any of them are there to leech from your STF.
As cynical as I am about Cryptic, I want to give them a chance. This is another step in the right direction. As always let's judge on results.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I severely hope... severely, that all this is strenuously tested prior to release on holodeck, as while the intentions are fine, the history of implementation, leaves the rest of the player base, at far too much risk of the 2 hour penalty, due to too many server issues, out of player's controls...
I've seen these afkers, and wish there was an autokick button for them, but then again, that too would be abused, usually by the same afkers. And not all afkers are simply able to play, as I've seen a couple that informed of RL issues, that were honest and understandable. Also seen too much, of players stuck loading into matches and runs, that could never get into their run, as a result of server glitchiness.
I really hope this doesn't end up as another week long wait, to clean up a plague of buges, caused by iffy software programming, rushed through before testing was properly done. If this all works as properly intended, cool. If I get a 2 hour penalty, cause of a power outage I can't control, and come back this penalty, my next forum post 'will' have colorful metaphors in it. Ye be warned.
Let's make this implementation, 'actually' work please.
I personally predict the inevitable bug giving people afking penalties even when they were doing something, whereby they will be making threads ******** about and to which I will be deriding them as afk'ers and just quoting their posts in this thread back to them.
i thnk its already working in part on holodeck, i entered a ce the other day 'n just as i warped in the phone rang. was my ma. had to answer, couldn't get off the phone for a few minutes,
didn't intend to afk but i did. i came back 'n it was still goin on, so i hit full impulse, 'n i'm heading into preloading my alpha strike right,, 'n bOOm . entity dies.
didn't get a shard or a mark package, didn't get a 2 hour ban either,
but i didn't get a reward, i figured they fixed something then vs afkers, that was just after this last patch i think
sometimes i load a STF and it has like a 3 min loading screen.. first time i get that and get a 2 hour stf ban i am not going to be happy.
A 3min load screen? Slow PC? Bad Internet?
2 comments...
Not to sound like a jerk but if you commonly get 3 min load screens you are being a drag on the STF team. If I find myself getting DC'd alot on a particular day I don't queue up for any team events, because I don't want to be unfair to the other players.
If the anti-Afker mod is automatic, eh, you might have a problem. If it's player vote-out then I'd suggest you do STFs with friends who will grant you that 3min load. PUGs won't be so kind.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
It is on Redshirt, if you are worried about getting a penalty. Go test it. remove your tac consoles or heal the kang with minimal shooting and do the events and see if that gets you a ban. All this worry and it can easily be tested.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
It is on Redshirt, if you are worried about getting a penalty. Go test it. remove your tac consoles or heal the kang with minimal shooting and do the events and see if that gets you a ban. All this worry and it can easily be tested.
imo, if you have to afk during a match because of phone call or other causes, you better resign yourself from the match since you can't contribute anymore or finish it anyway. just let the team know your reason & say sorry before leave. it's better than suddenly doing nothing and leave other team wondering what happened to you. some people may not patience enough to see you afk
off course you'll have leaver penalty for that, but if your real life cause was really important, that 1 hour penalty would be nothing compared to it
I have no doubt that some AFKers will be running to the forums to post their OMG I got the AFK penalty, But why, I had to go and answer the phone and was only gone for 15 minutes. That?s not fair, or I really had to take a bio I?ve been holding it for the last 8 hours but decided to queue for another event and waited another 15 minutes for the queue to pop and then clicked join and ran to take a bio and was only gone for 18 minutes, that?s not fair.
I guess someone should start an OMG I got the AFK penalty thread to have it ready to go.
I'm happy they are finally addressing the AFKer issue. But like said earlier, they will find a way. I trust they observed them enough to know their tactics, like some now wait til the end and start attacking, which cancels out them being an AFKer in the eyes of CSR.
But on the other end, players getting punished for legitimate bugs. A great example would be in Starbase Incursion, how sometimes people spawn inside the support beam at the starting point. That bugs been around for over a year! (Yes, a year!) Would suck if they ended up getting that 2 hour cooldown for something like that.
I'm happy they are finally addressing the AFKer issue. But like said earlier, they will find a way. I trust they observed them enough to know their tactics, like some now wait til the end and start attacking, which cancels out them being an AFKer in the eyes of CSR.
But on the other end, players getting punished for legitimate bugs. A great example would be in Starbase Incursion, how sometimes people spawn inside the support beam at the starting point. That bugs been around for over a year! (Yes, a year!) Would suck if they ended up getting that 2 hour cooldown for something like that.
There are ways around things - they should check the data and find the Median amount of damage players do in PvE content - and then set the threshold say 75% below that.
If you are not doing 25 % of the median damage - then you are not doing anything
There are ways around things - they should check the data and find the Median amount of damage players do in PvE content - and then set the threshold say 75% below that.
If you are not doing 25 % of the median damage - then you are not doing anything
Simpler just to give players the powers to Kick AFKers and then work ways to handle griefers who abuse that tool.
Comments
Me too - I just got an STF leaver penalty for 1 hour during bonus time and I was never even put into the INSTANCE!! I am mad as HECK!!
ok rant over!
No technically that is a leecher. An afker is "away from keyboard."
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
My kdf eng on a carrier for example does not move a lot, he uses pets..if I would try to follow enemies, I would be out of battle for some time because I can't turn fast and fly back to the team. If something like " minimum travelled distance" is part of the system, my eng will be angry!
Also I have been facing the dissapearing boff bug on most of my toons many many times, will I now have to decide between risking 1,5 min. to rearrange my hotbar or go to battle with nearly no special ability?
Last but not least: I noticed players in ESTFs with the following problems:
- player is new to the game and just does not know what to do
- they are still on a t3 ship but level 50
- bad, common equipment
- they did not know they can SPEND skillpoints in one of the UI windows
- they take their time to read the missiontext
- healing and supporting eng and sci
What about those players if damage is the main criteria?
I would love to see this new and surely needed software tested well to make sure it does not punish the teamplay oriented player!
name them, which doesn't really matter because you could have just been lucky not to run into the trolls. i have seen them in other games with vote kick systems. even if the loot goes straight to inventory, they'll do it just to hear that person talk about them in chat or on the forums.
every game with a kick system has people who abuse it. it's less likely in games where loot is personlized over drops at end boss that have to be rolled for, but trolls just enjoy TRIBBLE with people. and if you think there aren't any in sto that would abuse the system...nice rainbow colored world you live in.
Donate Brains, zombies in Washington DC are starving.
... this leads to bad decisions being implemented.
I just hope They are quick to 'adjust' this addition, if it all goes south.
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
You're lucky then. I've had problems with vote kicking. In 5 man dungeon public queues I've gotten groups with four guildmates who spent the entire time trolling me, and at the end vote kicking me right before the final boss.
And I know there are fleets here in STO who would do the exact same thing, some even making it their mission to abuse it all the time. Vote kicking will not work.
This AFK feature also has the potential to cause headaches. It depends on the timer but I can see people getting 2 hour bans because RL temporarily called them away, even if it's for a bio break. That said, most STO maps do not take too long to play so unlike other MMOs where I've been caught after a bio break by a 3 minute AFK timer on a map that can take well over an hour to finish, it shouldn't be a widespread problem here. But it will be a problem. People will get 2 hour bans because RL called.
Let's just hope the timer allows for annoying RL to interfere with our important videogame time because it does happen, and RL always comes first, as a rule.
if they do not disable the auto follow ability in queued events, you will still have afk farmers.
but battle cloaking to the gate would be fun lol, but yeah, we all need to go to redshirt and test ways to be not be AFK while being AFK and provide constructive feedback.
people get spam flagged as spammers all the time from trolls. I'm sure the same thing will happen with any player flagging set-up.
If I the phone rings and I come back a few minutes later to be looking at a 2-hour ban, the devs can expect to get an earful from me on the forums.
Maybe, I was not clear. The player flags are to be used in aggregate for statistical purposes. Let's say that every month the algorithm is retrained with new data. Flagging a player as AFK doesn't cause him to be penalized. At most, it will make some adjustments to the algorithm and cause other players to be penalized a month from now.
Heck we'll likely get clarification when it hits Tribble.
Now let's be honest, nothing new is ever without SOME issues.
To expect code to go live flawlessly is foolish.
No matter how they implement this I can see it causing far more problems then what we have now. To avoid afk leechers all you need to do is form groups for STF's with your fleet because it is unlikely any of them are there to leech from your STF.
Cloaking and flying a figure eight in order to fool the "ANti-afk/leech" coding however IS.
- Judge Aaron Satie
I personally predict the inevitable bug giving people afking penalties even when they were doing something, whereby they will be making threads ******** about and to which I will be deriding them as afk'ers and just quoting their posts in this thread back to them.
didn't intend to afk but i did. i came back 'n it was still goin on, so i hit full impulse, 'n i'm heading into preloading my alpha strike right,, 'n bOOm . entity dies.
didn't get a shard or a mark package, didn't get a 2 hour ban either,
but i didn't get a reward, i figured they fixed something then vs afkers, that was just after this last patch i think
This, all the way.
A 3min load screen? Slow PC? Bad Internet?
2 comments...
Not to sound like a jerk but if you commonly get 3 min load screens you are being a drag on the STF team. If I find myself getting DC'd alot on a particular day I don't queue up for any team events, because I don't want to be unfair to the other players.
If the anti-Afker mod is automatic, eh, you might have a problem. If it's player vote-out then I'd suggest you do STFs with friends who will grant you that 3min load. PUGs won't be so kind.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
No No you're Crazy CRAZZY I SAY!!:D
off course you'll have leaver penalty for that, but if your real life cause was really important, that 1 hour penalty would be nothing compared to it
I have no doubt that some AFKers will be running to the forums to post their OMG I got the AFK penalty, But why, I had to go and answer the phone and was only gone for 15 minutes. That?s not fair, or I really had to take a bio I?ve been holding it for the last 8 hours but decided to queue for another event and waited another 15 minutes for the queue to pop and then clicked join and ran to take a bio and was only gone for 18 minutes, that?s not fair.
I guess someone should start an OMG I got the AFK penalty thread to have it ready to go.
But on the other end, players getting punished for legitimate bugs. A great example would be in Starbase Incursion, how sometimes people spawn inside the support beam at the starting point. That bugs been around for over a year! (Yes, a year!) Would suck if they ended up getting that 2 hour cooldown for something like that.
There are ways around things - they should check the data and find the Median amount of damage players do in PvE content - and then set the threshold say 75% below that.
If you are not doing 25 % of the median damage - then you are not doing anything
Simpler just to give players the powers to Kick AFKers and then work ways to handle griefers who abuse that tool.