Ok, so leeching is a problem. We all know it is, and there's no easy way to address it.
One thing I do is actively report leechers in any groups i'm in whether it be Mine Trap (where I run into most of them) or Elite STF's (where I run into the rest of them).
Without exposing account information, I'm curious as to what Cryptic GM's are doing or are allowed to do to help us take care of these issues.
I'm getting emails of "We're addressing the situation" but I've yet to hear of people leeching have any consequences what so ever (and I know of several personally that I watch leech and talk in channels I'm in and there's nothing happening to them).
So what exactly is being done to address this situation on a professional level if anything? Again, this is out curiosity more than anything, but are the GM's hands tied? are they not allowed to do anything? Is there something they can do? I'm just curious as to what is going on that this continues to be a problem.
Thanks again!
Praxian
Maybe they are sitting back overseeing that your doing the job right. In a command position
Again, this is why there is boilerplate language in the ToS to cover any circumstances not already defined. Read the Dev posts linked via this thread. Quite clear they consider leeching a negative effect on the game.
They think many things that are now or were in game have a negative effect. like people abusing the tour the universe, abusing the banking system for storage, and so on.. but it does nto make it a violation of the TOS, just something that they need to fix. and I agree its nuts and its not just afk that is the issue we also have the problem of people leaving fleet missions early just before the boss comes so they can que up again and get more marks faster. while the people that stay and actually complete the mission are penalized for staying.
and you can look up my posts I was in favor of the mail system change.
im apposed to leeching but most of the kick or ignore options and the worst of all ( don't pug) options just are not valid. if Klingons don't PUG they don't get to play.
so just because I point out that a argument is flawed does not mean im on the side of the leechers I am NOT, but if you want to win an argument you need to atleast argue with the facts.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
I encounter more and more with these guys who just jump into an STF or Fleet Alert with you and then they do nothing, except clicking "Need" on every single item your team digs up.
They are extremely annoying, but that's the smallest issue. They effectively ruin the game of the other four (or more) players because optional objectives and in some case even the mission itself is unachievable without the contribution of every player. The Cure Applied, The Cure Found, No Win Scenario, Atmosphere Assault. Just a few missions where it is crucial to have all the five players active.
So what the other four should do? Try to resolve the mission and in a significant part of the cases, fail miserably, or should they quit and suffer the STF penalty? And the leechers don't really care, they get some loot and marks from the mission either if there is no objective, or the mission itself fails. For them it's a win-win scenario.
And just how serious this issue became? I kept a record of my last 40 PVE missions. From 40, in 14 we had an AFK leecher, that's more than one quarter of the cases! And I think
When and how Cryptic will do something against this issue? Will they wait till the ratio raises to 50-75%?
It's a far cry from a salem witch-hunt. Over the past week I've done probably 6 to 10 pve's a day doing mostly mines for romulan marks. In probably 85% of them I've had at least 1 "afk leecher" because they'll find a spot and park their character and there's no "brb, real life". they just stay in that spot, the entire game.
I que up mine again, and there they are. they came back to the keyboard long enough to que up another instance, park their character, and go off doing something else again where their character sits there and waits for the end of the mission.
THIS is what's wrong with AFK'ing imo. Why should a person who joins and sits gain any benefit from doing nothing while I work to make sure my marks are earned?
It's a far cry from a salem witch-hunt. Over the past week I've done probably 6 to 10 pve's a day doing mostly mines for romulan marks. In probably 85% of them I've had at least 1 "afk leecher" because they'll find a spot and park their character and there's no "brb, real life". they just stay in that spot, the entire game.
I que up mine again, and there they are. they came back to the keyboard long enough to que up another instance, park their character, and go off doing something else again where their character sits there and waits for the end of the mission.
THIS is what's wrong with AFK'ing imo. Why should a person who joins and sits gain any benefit from doing nothing while I work to make sure my marks are earned?
Here is the common forum answer. The "don't queue up for pve" solution. That solves that problem.
I encounter more and more with these guys who just jump into an STF or Fleet Alert with you and then they do nothing, except clicking "Need" on every single item your team digs up.
They are extremely annoying, but that's the smallest issue. They effectively ruin the game of the other four (or more) players because optional objectives and in some case even the mission itself is unachievable without the contribution of every player. The Cure Applied, The Cure Found, No Win Scenario, Atmosphere Assault. Just a few missions where it is crucial to have all the five players active.
So what the other four should do? Try to resolve the mission and in a significant part of the cases, fail miserably, or should they quit and suffer the STF penalty? And the leechers don't really care, they get some loot and marks from the mission either if there is no objective, or the mission itself fails. For them it's a win-win scenario.
And just how serious this issue became? I kept a record of my last 40 PVE missions. From 40, in 14 we had an AFK leecher, that's more than one quarter of the cases! And I think
When and how Cryptic will do something against this issue? Will they wait till the ratio raises to 50-75%?
Standard forum answer: "don't pug, for ever and ever "
3 Fleetmates from a griefing fleet queue up together and vote to boot the 2 randoms before the end of the event, preventing them from getting the reward.
Neverwinter had this problem when teamleaders kicked people before boss loots... dont know if they fixed it or not, as I dont play NW anymore...that game was way out of line when it came to players exploiting the system.
_______________________
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
Never seen 1 afk player and I do between 5-10 pugs a day. I see more than enough players intentionaly blow optionals like in ISE or KSE and more than my share of new to the event players who shouldnt be doing them yet but never an afk player that is leeching. Mine trap is a fun one when a teammate is with another team but I have never seen anyone leech there as the whole team is taking damage so i assume they are helping another team(lucky them).
I have seen people sitting at spawn for a while but thats always connection issues because they do join in the fight once that clears up. I have also seen ships fly off into the distance all of a sudden during a fight so I assume something came up requiring attention when they probably would prefer to stay.
Asked fleetmates a couple weeks ago if they ever see an AFK/leech and all of them but 1 hasnt seen any and many of those players are grinding marks like crazy. especialy fleet marks as we have 2 upgrades needing thousands.
You either have terrible luck or are bsing to make it sound like its a bigger issue. I guess you saw all the threads complaining then happened to run across 1 in a fleet alert and decided to start yet another thread on the subject.
Or there could be a glitch in the system where you just dont see a player doing anything but parked in one spot when they could be flying around helping. That would be kinda funny if it were the case and has happened in multiplayer games before.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
AFKers are becoming a issue I have had to afk for a reason and I've always apologised to the team and explain the reason. But even I have noticed more and more afkers are entering events in PUGS
And it's easy to say don't pug but when your fleet is in a different timezone than what you are. what are you mean to do sit on your hands and hope to get marks that way
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Already been over this, as have many other people.
No, in order to get banned (or even warned) you would need to be a repeat offender.
5 times = 1st warning, another 5 = second warning, another 5 = 24h ban, or something similar.
Or alternatively, just find a way to not give these TRIBBLE any credit.
When I say "24h ban" I do mean only from public queues, if these people want to set up a private game by all means go for it.
I think this is a good idea but how would you put it into practice? Cryptic would have to hire people to review records to determine if someone was a repeat offender. You couldn't go by multiple reports because that could be abused too.
I like the thought but I'm wondering how you would actually implement it.
3 Fleetmates from a griefing fleet queue up together and vote to boot the 2 randoms before the end of the event, preventing them from getting the reward.
People who queue as a team only get one vote amongst them.
Solv'd.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
People who queue as a team only get one vote amongst them.
Solv'd.
That isn't very well thought out. Queues appear to be a FIFO mechanism, so they don't team and just all enter queue at the same time.
Personally, I wouldn't use the PVE queues at all and solo everything *IF* there were a decent way to earn comparable marks. But there isn't so I'm stuck with pugs.
The fleet I'm in is rarely -just this side of never- able to start private matches. I've often considering abandoning the fleet for one more active, but flitting between fleets like a butterfly as the new one becomes less active, or the politics disagree with me, or I just don't like the fleetmates, or the fleetmates are afk'ers themselves, or, or... So I'll just stick with the fleet I'm currently in. So to those who say don't pug you are effectively me telling me not to play the game for mark related advancement, which at end game is the only thing really left to do. So am I to just quit the game altogether?
To those lucky enough to not have run into this afk issue, more power to you. I pugged six times last night: afk'er in one, griefer in another, and an early leaver in a third. Sure I can go days without seeing things like this, but when it happens it stands out much more than those matches where people are actually *PLAYING* the game. I'm at the point now that if I see an afk'er and it's a mission that can actually fail I'll just park my butt right behind 'em and let the mission fail (sorry to the other teammates). Sure they don't care, but I'd sooner not let them get n marks than earn n marks myself.
Cryptic, how about just letting me solo the various marks in more space missions please?
That would penalize people for grouping together and make it impossible to remove a legitimate AKFer from a match.
In order for that to be true, you would have to be entering a public queue with a group of four. At that point, "just make a private group" becomes a much more valid response.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
That isn't very well thought out. Queues appear to be a FIFO mechanism, so they don't team and just all enter queue at the same time.
Unless they're in the same room, "at the same time" is problematic. And even then, 40% of the time they'd be split anyway. That's more work then most griefers are willing to go through.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
In order for that to be true, you would have to be entering a public queue with a group of four. At that point, "just make a private group" becomes a much more valid response.
Not if they're intention is to grief people in the public queues.
Unless they're in the same room, "at the same time" is problematic. And even then, 40% of the time they'd be split anyway. That's more work then most griefers are willing to go through.
The queues can remain open for minutes, particurly kdf queues. Sure they're not as likely to get into the same instance on some of the more popular missions, but it's not that unlikely either.
The queues can remain open for minutes, particurly kdf queues. Sure they're not as likely to get into the same instance on some of the more popular missions, but it's not that unlikely either.
Griefers are unlikely to wait half an hour in a queue just to boot people.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Not sure how your math works? According to your suggestion, 3 people teaming together count as 1 vote. That leaves 2 others. The discussion was requiring a unanimous vote of 3 to kick someone. So that gives us;
3 fleetmates teamed together = 1 vote
1 random player = 1 vote
1 AFK leecher = 1 vote
Unless the leecher is going to vote for themselves to be booted, I don't see how your suggestion would work?
Actually, the original idea was 'majority vote'. People simplified that to 3, since the group is typically 5. If there are only 3 possible votes, than a majority is two.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Comments
Maybe they are sitting back overseeing that your doing the job right. In a command position
You know what else is covered under Article 19, getting banned for annoying devs, or GMs about AFKers.
maybe do a run...maybe not...
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
They think many things that are now or were in game have a negative effect. like people abusing the tour the universe, abusing the banking system for storage, and so on.. but it does nto make it a violation of the TOS, just something that they need to fix. and I agree its nuts and its not just afk that is the issue we also have the problem of people leaving fleet missions early just before the boss comes so they can que up again and get more marks faster. while the people that stay and actually complete the mission are penalized for staying.
and you can look up my posts I was in favor of the mail system change.
im apposed to leeching but most of the kick or ignore options and the worst of all ( don't pug) options just are not valid. if Klingons don't PUG they don't get to play.
so just because I point out that a argument is flawed does not mean im on the side of the leechers I am NOT, but if you want to win an argument you need to atleast argue with the facts.
"Look ! there's someone sitting idle !!!!!"
"It's A Witch !!!"
"buuuuurrnn hhherrrr !!! "
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
They are extremely annoying, but that's the smallest issue. They effectively ruin the game of the other four (or more) players because optional objectives and in some case even the mission itself is unachievable without the contribution of every player. The Cure Applied, The Cure Found, No Win Scenario, Atmosphere Assault. Just a few missions where it is crucial to have all the five players active.
So what the other four should do? Try to resolve the mission and in a significant part of the cases, fail miserably, or should they quit and suffer the STF penalty? And the leechers don't really care, they get some loot and marks from the mission either if there is no objective, or the mission itself fails. For them it's a win-win scenario.
And just how serious this issue became? I kept a record of my last 40 PVE missions. From 40, in 14 we had an AFK leecher, that's more than one quarter of the cases! And I think
When and how Cryptic will do something against this issue? Will they wait till the ratio raises to 50-75%?
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
It's a far cry from a salem witch-hunt. Over the past week I've done probably 6 to 10 pve's a day doing mostly mines for romulan marks. In probably 85% of them I've had at least 1 "afk leecher" because they'll find a spot and park their character and there's no "brb, real life". they just stay in that spot, the entire game.
I que up mine again, and there they are. they came back to the keyboard long enough to que up another instance, park their character, and go off doing something else again where their character sits there and waits for the end of the mission.
THIS is what's wrong with AFK'ing imo. Why should a person who joins and sits gain any benefit from doing nothing while I work to make sure my marks are earned?
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
Problem solved.
Next.
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
Neverwinter had this problem when teamleaders kicked people before boss loots... dont know if they fixed it or not, as I dont play NW anymore...that game was way out of line when it came to players exploiting the system.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
I have seen people sitting at spawn for a while but thats always connection issues because they do join in the fight once that clears up. I have also seen ships fly off into the distance all of a sudden during a fight so I assume something came up requiring attention when they probably would prefer to stay.
Asked fleetmates a couple weeks ago if they ever see an AFK/leech and all of them but 1 hasnt seen any and many of those players are grinding marks like crazy. especialy fleet marks as we have 2 upgrades needing thousands.
You either have terrible luck or are bsing to make it sound like its a bigger issue. I guess you saw all the threads complaining then happened to run across 1 in a fleet alert and decided to start yet another thread on the subject.
Or there could be a glitch in the system where you just dont see a player doing anything but parked in one spot when they could be flying around helping. That would be kinda funny if it were the case and has happened in multiplayer games before.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
And it's easy to say don't pug but when your fleet is in a different timezone than what you are. what are you mean to do sit on your hands and hope to get marks that way
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I think this is a good idea but how would you put it into practice? Cryptic would have to hire people to review records to determine if someone was a repeat offender. You couldn't go by multiple reports because that could be abused too.
I like the thought but I'm wondering how you would actually implement it.
Satcher@ferthanna
R'awlins@ferthanna
T'flup@ferthanna
People who queue as a team only get one vote amongst them.
Solv'd.
That isn't very well thought out. Queues appear to be a FIFO mechanism, so they don't team and just all enter queue at the same time.
Personally, I wouldn't use the PVE queues at all and solo everything *IF* there were a decent way to earn comparable marks. But there isn't so I'm stuck with pugs.
The fleet I'm in is rarely -just this side of never- able to start private matches. I've often considering abandoning the fleet for one more active, but flitting between fleets like a butterfly as the new one becomes less active, or the politics disagree with me, or I just don't like the fleetmates, or the fleetmates are afk'ers themselves, or, or... So I'll just stick with the fleet I'm currently in. So to those who say don't pug you are effectively me telling me not to play the game for mark related advancement, which at end game is the only thing really left to do. So am I to just quit the game altogether?
To those lucky enough to not have run into this afk issue, more power to you. I pugged six times last night: afk'er in one, griefer in another, and an early leaver in a third. Sure I can go days without seeing things like this, but when it happens it stands out much more than those matches where people are actually *PLAYING* the game. I'm at the point now that if I see an afk'er and it's a mission that can actually fail I'll just park my butt right behind 'em and let the mission fail (sorry to the other teammates). Sure they don't care, but I'd sooner not let them get n marks than earn n marks myself.
Cryptic, how about just letting me solo the various marks in more space missions please?
In order for that to be true, you would have to be entering a public queue with a group of four. At that point, "just make a private group" becomes a much more valid response.
Unless they're in the same room, "at the same time" is problematic. And even then, 40% of the time they'd be split anyway. That's more work then most griefers are willing to go through.
Not if they're intention is to grief people in the public queues.
EDIT:Awhoops. wrong quote.
The queues can remain open for minutes, particurly kdf queues. Sure they're not as likely to get into the same instance on some of the more popular missions, but it's not that unlikely either.
Griefers are unlikely to wait half an hour in a queue just to boot people.
Actually, the original idea was 'majority vote'. People simplified that to 3, since the group is typically 5. If there are only 3 possible votes, than a majority is two.
LOL. You go from synchronized queuing from seconds in one post to half an hour in another.