It is annoying and there does need to be some solution. But it's likely everyone has been in the situation where they've had to go away from their PC quickly.
The biggest problem is when it is the same person over and over who does it. It's also the people who join the STF or whatever it may be, sit and do nothing but still chat. They are the ones that are ruining people's gametime.
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
When grinding the reputation system there really isn't enough people in my fleet or friends list who'd be interesting in doing them hour after hour to get the marks.
AFKers are a nuisance but they are the exception rather than the rule in my experience. There's nothing I can do but report them and hope that eventually they will be punished or that there's a system put in place to deal with them.
Either way, I just carry on and do the best with what my PUG has given me
Ok, so leeching is a problem. We all know it is, and there's no easy way to address it.
One thing I do is actively report leechers in any groups i'm in whether it be Mine Trap (where I run into most of them) or Elite STF's (where I run into the rest of them).
Without exposing account information, I'm curious as to what Cryptic GM's are doing or are allowed to do to help us take care of these issues.
I'm getting emails of "We're addressing the situation" but I've yet to hear of people leeching have any consequences what so ever (and I know of several personally that I watch leech and talk in channels I'm in and there's nothing happening to them).
So what exactly is being done to address this situation on a professional level if anything? Again, this is out curiosity more than anything, but are the GM's hands tied? are they not allowed to do anything? Is there something they can do? I'm just curious as to what is going on that this continues to be a problem.
its actually not against TOS for being idle in a match.
reporting them does nothing..
if you harass the GMs about it, you could be banned..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
It may or may not be against the TOS, depending on the specific behavior and how the GM's interpret it and their own rules.
I have never heard of anyone being warned for it though, so the GM's seem to be taking a hands-off approach for now.
mostly because there is absolutely no way to prove if they lagged out or if they were idle intentionally or if say the mail man knocked on their door and they had to get up for a minute.
yes it sucks when you get someone that sits idle the whole match..
but there is so many things it could be that causes this.
i think the best fix is to not match people up that is on your ignore list.. this would solve many problems.
for one, if you just dont like someone you should never be put on their team.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
They should give the teams the ability to kick them out of the match and have it auto replace with someone from the queue. If they don't want to address it, let the community take care of it then.
They should give the teams the ability to kick them out of the match and have it auto replace with someone from the queue. If they don't want to address it, let the community take care of it then.
Having a kick ability has been discussed tirelessly time and time again. The consensus to this was it would be misused, and could lead to further confrontation, or bullying.
As for the main topic of this thread no other player can fully determine the nature of another as none of can been seen by each other. If a player appears to be idle or AFK there is a number of factors to consider. Have they had a call of nature, has the telephone rang, has a visitor turned up to their home. The real major contributor to making a player look idle at the moment is constant server disconnections.
I was in an STF recently and another player said they had to go idle as their child needed attention.
Would kicking them from the mission just because their child needed attantion be the right thing to do, or give them the benefit that interuptions happen.
Sadly, the ToS fully allows the AFK'ing and Leeching, so reporting it is basically against the ToS, because you report someone for something they are allowed to do.
Wich sucks.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I don't leech, but occationally, i must become afk, because my pasta is boiling over, or some hoodie breaks through my front door with an axe. Sorry bout that, but reaching for my gun is a little bit more of a priority than pampering small immature children with ragefits.
Players work hard in completing the goal and AFKers getting rewarded for it, is just wrong!
If Perfect World is going to allow such behavior, it gives me a major reason not to participate in Public Events anymore. In fact, it gives me more and more reason to leave STO for non PW games.
Just because you or I think something is unacceptable, doesn't mean it is something the GMs will do anything about. Because legally, being idle is not a violation of the ToS.
There are AFKers in all MMOs. Nothing new. If you don't want to play with them, don't join a PUG. Personally, I haven't seen very many AFKs. In fact, depending on the mission, I welcome them. Better odds that I get first place rewards if they are idle.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sorry going AFK for a couple of minutes isn't AFKing for the entire mission and then trying to steal drops you didn't earn.
And if you actually have a problem with axe wielding hoodlums breaking into your home with such frequency that it interferes with your playing a video game on a regular basis, then you should live somewhere else.
We have better thing to do than pamper small immature gun toting numbskullz throwing hissy fits because they're too stupid to move to a neighborhood that isn't infested with axe wielding hoodlums. :P
Good thing we agree. To bad a lot of the complainters are people overreacting to those afk'ers/leechers. Put their names on your ignorelists, you'll never see them again.
Don't stir it up by making people interested in trolling the queues, just because it irks people. Its exactly that what feed trolls. -I am norwegian, i feed trolls daily.
Good thing we agree. To bad a lot of the complainters are people overreacting to those afk'ers/leechers. Put their names on your ignorelists, you'll never see them again.
Putting people on the ignore list doesn't prevent you from being in a group with them again.
They should give the teams the ability to kick them out of the match and have it auto replace with someone from the queue. If they don't want to address it, let the community take care of it then.
First off there is no consensus. Players are constantly and bitterly arguing for and against it, while responses from Cryptic have been the vague wishy-washy "We're looking into solutions."
And just like to point out that there are lots of ways certain types of players misuse existing features to grief other players, and Cryptic has been fine allowing that to happen so potential griefing isn't really a valid defense.
I will rephrases "The general consensus at that given time was.... " my bad for not correctly wording it
One could ask you the same. Show where it is expressly stated that you may go AFK for the entire duration of queued events on purpose every single time you join one. Again, I doubt Cryptic/PWE will say that this is acceptable behavior and want to encourage it.
The burden of proof lies with the offense. The ToS is not written to specify what is allowed, but rather what is NOT allowed. And again, show me where it is against the rules.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
its actually not against TOS for being idle in a match.
Nearly didn't even bother coming in this thread, I knew from the title It would be filled with posts like this one. Well done btw, second reply in the thread before someone spouts this stupid line at us. Not only is it unproductive, but it's not even worth saying. The fact threads like this crop up EVERY DAY should indicate that this is a serious problem for the playerbase. Saying "It's not against the TOS" is essentially saying they're doing nothing wrong. Well I'm sorry, but that's absolutely nonsensical. Stop saying this.
I've just read through the TOS, it's worded liberally enough that you COULD define AFKing in a match to be against the TOS.
10. User Conduct
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players
I'd certainly say being able to hide in a corner and get full rewards for a team event while not being there or contributing is both a design flaw, and an unfair advantage over other players.
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service
AFKing certainly negatively affects players and stops them from enjoying the game, there is no way you could argue the opposite.
PWE may take any actions and impose any penalties we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within PWE's discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community
So PWE can use their discretion to decide how liberally these things are applied, and they can do so with WHAT THEY DEEM IS BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY.
mostly because there is absolutely no way to prove if they lagged out or if they were idle intentionally or if say the mail man knocked on their door and they had to get up for a minute.
yes it sucks when you get someone that sits idle the whole match..
but there is so many things it could be that causes this.
I also disagree with this. Pattern of behaviour. The people that AFK in matches to get free rewards are doing it consistently and regularly. That's pretty easy to prove tbh.
I don't believe this is true. There are degrees of acceptability. Going AFK for a moment to tend to a child or something of the sort is one thing. Being AFK an entire match every single time you enter a public queue is another.
One is accepted via the TOS. I highly doubt Cryptic/PWE will say the latter is acceptable behavior.
There is nothing in the rules that discourages such behavior... Don't believe me... Read the ToS yourself...
The rules prohibit actions that purposefully hinders progress in the game, but nothing, not a single word, about purposefully prolonging a mission.
It's sad, but true... No matter how many time you read them, it is just like that I am afraid.
I am NOT under any circumstance defending those people, and I am a big support of the Vote to kick feature, but in the end, Cryptic is sadly in their right to ignore reports on AFK'ers.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Nearly didn't even bother coming in this thread, I knew from the title It would be filled with posts like this one. Well done btw, second reply in the thread before someone spouts this stupid line at us. Not only is it unproductive, but it's not even worth saying. The fact threads like this crop up EVERY DAY should indicate that this is a serious problem for the playerbase. Saying "It's not against the TOS" is essentially saying they're doing nothing wrong. Well I'm sorry, but that's absolutely nonsensical. Stop saying this.
I've just read through the TOS, it's worded liberally enough that you COULD define AFKing in a match to be against the TOS.
10. User Conduct
I'd certainly say being able to hide in a corner and get full rewards for a team event while not being there or contributing is both a design flaw, and an unfair advantage over other players.
obtaining unauthorized access to the service, might mean trying to use other means of hacking into the game by an exploit of flaw in the system, to give yourself example infinite EC to gain an advantage over someone
AFKing certainly negatively affects players and stops them from enjoying the game, there is no way you could argue the opposite.
Not really, it more means, if I find a way to stop you from playing, some how finding a flaw in the system that allows me to disable your character or kick you off the server and game.
So PWE can use their discretion to decide how liberally these things are applied, and they can do so with WHAT THEY DEEM IS BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY.
Doesn't mean AFKing is under any of that.
Scroll up and read what topset posted. I'll bet Cryptic/PWE disagree with you too.
He has a valid point though, it's not EXPRESSLY against the TOS. It's just that Cryptic/PWE have enough wiggle room in the TOS to mean that they could deem it against the rules and ban people for it if they wanted to.
But alas, it would appear that they don't want to.
perhaps it's not the overwhelming problem you are making it out to be ?
It's not. I've never experienced afkers or leeches. The closest I've heard of would be people warping out of FFA before the dreadnought at the end, and that mission does need to be changed so you don't get marks unless you finish it. But this seems to be a very insignificant problem.
Just because you or I think something is unacceptable, doesn't mean it is something the GMs will do anything about. Because legally, being idle is not a violation of the ToS.
There are AFKers in all MMOs. Nothing new. If you don't want to play with them, don't join a PUG. Personally, I haven't seen very many AFKs. In fact, depending on the mission, I welcome them. Better odds that I get first place rewards if they are idle.
Well this could be used from the ToS:
10. User Conduct
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
PWE may take any actions and impose any penalties we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within PWE's discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community and the Website. By using the Website, you agree you will be bound by PWE's determination as to whether a violation has occurred and any penalty we choose to implement.
Comments
The biggest problem is when it is the same person over and over who does it. It's also the people who join the STF or whatever it may be, sit and do nothing but still chat. They are the ones that are ruining people's gametime.
When grinding the reputation system there really isn't enough people in my fleet or friends list who'd be interesting in doing them hour after hour to get the marks.
AFKers are a nuisance but they are the exception rather than the rule in my experience. There's nothing I can do but report them and hope that eventually they will be punished or that there's a system put in place to deal with them.
Either way, I just carry on and do the best with what my PUG has given me
One thing I do is actively report leechers in any groups i'm in whether it be Mine Trap (where I run into most of them) or Elite STF's (where I run into the rest of them).
Without exposing account information, I'm curious as to what Cryptic GM's are doing or are allowed to do to help us take care of these issues.
I'm getting emails of "We're addressing the situation" but I've yet to hear of people leeching have any consequences what so ever (and I know of several personally that I watch leech and talk in channels I'm in and there's nothing happening to them).
So what exactly is being done to address this situation on a professional level if anything? Again, this is out curiosity more than anything, but are the GM's hands tied? are they not allowed to do anything? Is there something they can do? I'm just curious as to what is going on that this continues to be a problem.
Thanks again!
Praxian
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
reporting them does nothing..
if you harass the GMs about it, you could be banned..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
It may or may not be against the TOS, depending on the specific behavior and how the GM's interpret it and their own rules.
I have never heard of anyone being warned for it though, so the GM's seem to be taking a hands-off approach for now.
mostly because there is absolutely no way to prove if they lagged out or if they were idle intentionally or if say the mail man knocked on their door and they had to get up for a minute.
yes it sucks when you get someone that sits idle the whole match..
but there is so many things it could be that causes this.
i think the best fix is to not match people up that is on your ignore list.. this would solve many problems.
for one, if you just dont like someone you should never be put on their team.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Having a kick ability has been discussed tirelessly time and time again. The consensus to this was it would be misused, and could lead to further confrontation, or bullying.
As for the main topic of this thread no other player can fully determine the nature of another as none of can been seen by each other. If a player appears to be idle or AFK there is a number of factors to consider. Have they had a call of nature, has the telephone rang, has a visitor turned up to their home. The real major contributor to making a player look idle at the moment is constant server disconnections.
I was in an STF recently and another player said they had to go idle as their child needed attention.
Would kicking them from the mission just because their child needed attantion be the right thing to do, or give them the benefit that interuptions happen.
Wich sucks.
If Perfect World is going to allow such behavior, it gives me a major reason not to participate in Public Events anymore. In fact, it gives me more and more reason to leave STO for non PW games.
Then show me where in the ToS it says so, as I do not see it. Here's a link to help you out:
http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms
Just because you or I think something is unacceptable, doesn't mean it is something the GMs will do anything about. Because legally, being idle is not a violation of the ToS.
There are AFKers in all MMOs. Nothing new. If you don't want to play with them, don't join a PUG. Personally, I haven't seen very many AFKs. In fact, depending on the mission, I welcome them. Better odds that I get first place rewards if they are idle.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Good thing we agree. To bad a lot of the complainters are people overreacting to those afk'ers/leechers. Put their names on your ignorelists, you'll never see them again.
Don't stir it up by making people interested in trolling the queues, just because it irks people. Its exactly that what feed trolls. -I am norwegian, i feed trolls daily.
Putting people on the ignore list doesn't prevent you from being in a group with them again.
I will rephrases "The general consensus at that given time was.... " my bad for not correctly wording it
The burden of proof lies with the offense. The ToS is not written to specify what is allowed, but rather what is NOT allowed. And again, show me where it is against the rules.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nearly didn't even bother coming in this thread, I knew from the title It would be filled with posts like this one. Well done btw, second reply in the thread before someone spouts this stupid line at us. Not only is it unproductive, but it's not even worth saying. The fact threads like this crop up EVERY DAY should indicate that this is a serious problem for the playerbase. Saying "It's not against the TOS" is essentially saying they're doing nothing wrong. Well I'm sorry, but that's absolutely nonsensical. Stop saying this.
I've just read through the TOS, it's worded liberally enough that you COULD define AFKing in a match to be against the TOS.
10. User Conduct
I'd certainly say being able to hide in a corner and get full rewards for a team event while not being there or contributing is both a design flaw, and an unfair advantage over other players.
AFKing certainly negatively affects players and stops them from enjoying the game, there is no way you could argue the opposite.
So PWE can use their discretion to decide how liberally these things are applied, and they can do so with WHAT THEY DEEM IS BEST FOR THE COMMUNITY.
http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms
So there you are, the wording is liberal enough that AFKing is against the TOS.
TAKE THAT!
Kirk's Protege.
I also disagree with this. Pattern of behaviour. The people that AFK in matches to get free rewards are doing it consistently and regularly. That's pretty easy to prove tbh.
Kirk's Protege.
There is nothing in the rules that discourages such behavior... Don't believe me... Read the ToS yourself...
The rules prohibit actions that purposefully hinders progress in the game, but nothing, not a single word, about purposefully prolonging a mission.
It's sad, but true... No matter how many time you read them, it is just like that I am afraid.
I am NOT under any circumstance defending those people, and I am a big support of the Vote to kick feature, but in the end, Cryptic is sadly in their right to ignore reports on AFK'ers.
this is just another yah-huh / nuh-uh pissing contest thread.
.
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
ME..............................................
He has a valid point though, it's not EXPRESSLY against the TOS. It's just that Cryptic/PWE have enough wiggle room in the TOS to mean that they could deem it against the rules and ban people for it if they wanted to.
But alas, it would appear that they don't want to.
Kirk's Protege.
It's not. I've never experienced afkers or leeches. The closest I've heard of would be people warping out of FFA before the dreadnought at the end, and that mission does need to be changed so you don't get marks unless you finish it. But this seems to be a very insignificant problem.
Well this could be used from the ToS: