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Sugestion because of the beam overload stack
gibbspt
Member Posts: 80 Arc User
So basicly almost everyone with a cloak ship is doing double taps stacking BO2 and BO3, and even in the queues this is taking all the fun of the game, a person does not have a chance to defend their selfs against this type of game play, because this players will kill you in 1 second, so my sugestion to make PvP balanced again and to avoid people to run this types of builds would be:
1) beam overloads even from different grades ex BO1 + BO2 or BO2 +BO3 can not stack anymore.
2) after the shoot of a beam overload can not use another beam overload for 5 seconds, this will prevent people that charge a BO3 and wait until the last second(29 second abilitie ready to fire) to fire and load another one to fire again...
i think that this 2 sugestions implemented will prevent people to 1 shoot players without giving them a chance to defend themselfs...
This is taking the fun of pvp, because all you see now is teams that have 2 romulan ships running double tap builds and them 3 healers just tanking for ever while the escorts one shoot the other team and run...
1) beam overloads even from different grades ex BO1 + BO2 or BO2 +BO3 can not stack anymore.
2) after the shoot of a beam overload can not use another beam overload for 5 seconds, this will prevent people that charge a BO3 and wait until the last second(29 second abilitie ready to fire) to fire and load another one to fire again...
i think that this 2 sugestions implemented will prevent people to 1 shoot players without giving them a chance to defend themselfs...
This is taking the fun of pvp, because all you see now is teams that have 2 romulan ships running double tap builds and them 3 healers just tanking for ever while the escorts one shoot the other team and run...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Post edited by gibbspt on
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Do you even Science Bro?
Unfortunately this is a very true statement. The main problem right now is that everything is revolving around the actual lack of PvE content because a lot of people particularly on the KDF side were screaming for years to add content for the KDF who didn't want to partake in the traditional PvP leveling format of the old days prior to Featured Episode series'. With that said of course many times we have seen PvP take a back burner in favor of running PvE for the purposes of the expanding market of PvE players. The problem of course is that every single addition designed for PvE throws PvP out of whack even farther. What needs to happen and has been stated many times is a complete PvP overhaul of the game and redesigning it from the ground up so that things actually become balanced. Like taking %age damage reduction and implementing in game when it comes to PvP to actually even the fields a bit. Don't get me wrong the changes to emergency power abilities actually made running an actual science ship in PvP appealing but it's still a far distant second to what it used to be. Sadly though, it seems that PvP is a secondary priority now which is why I have formally retired from PvP in all forms because it is way to easy to run a FOTM build that simply cannot be beaten. I have to agree that this double tap build with Romulan ships has made BO far more OP than it should be and I for one would love to see that changed along with a massive overhaul of the entire PvP mechanic.
Nailed it, Hilbert!
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
you totally can not stick pvp being broken because of their lack of planning into the same boat as premades.
did you ever think that if pvp in this game was balanced the curve between premades and pugs wouldnt be so bad?
Do you even Science Bro?
While Cloaked.. Prep Bo 3.. Pop 2 Aux to Bats.. Buff (EPTW, APA, Tac Fleet etc..) Decloak, Fire, Activate Bo 3 + Weapon Bat, fire. :rolleyes:
(This is a similar Procedure I learned how to do with Torp Spread 3 + Plasma Torps)
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
It's scary because I was actually thinking that while going over the new lockbox yesterday ^_^
Now we don't have quality or quantity to supply content.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
On the other hand, crippling spike damage at this point will leave us back in a situation where good teams will be stalemating and unable to kill protected targets.
Unfortunately I don't think we can realistically reduce spike damage without correspondingly reducing the massive survivability inflation we've seen over the past year and a half.
The chances of Cryptic going back and nerfing all of those survival mechanisms is approximately nil.
Review the entire last year of items and powers implementation.
Take a look at any places where new mitigation abilities were outright nerfed vs. things that were fixed because they actually were not WAI.
Then compare that to the number of higher hull ships, items & passives that were added, contributed to mitigation inflation, and report back to us.
You act like decloak double-tapping is the only way to kill someone. That's simply not true. The last NO BS tourney proved that. No cloak allowed yet there were no 0-0 stalemates even in the 15 minute long games. There were a couple 3-3's and a 3-0, so yeah, people were still dying. With all of the bleedthrough nowadays (and soon to be more) all of this massive shield resistance does not mean a whole lot.
@DevolvedOne
Perhaps the BO bleedtrough doffs were a bit too much but...
I thinkt the issue these days is that all ships are overloaded with pay2win / rep uni consoles at the expense of some massive survivability. But thats just me personally. (I think husanak also pointed this out a while back i believe)
On the other hand look at all the massive defense we got these days. 22+K shield cap isnt uncommon, 65k~ hull hitpoints, doffs that give massive energy resist while using aux2id. EptE buffed tons which really ****s over BO builds, holding one with TB suddenly alot less powerful. Overall the amount of bonus defense increased rapidly compared to accuracy (except for the nukara console) the acc pretty much got nerfed alot with all the subterfuge boffs, the cripplig trait etc. RSP doffs to get god mode, doffs that remove all debuffs when proccing EptX.
I also believe alot of peeps didnt fully grasp the value of running two different Emergency power abilities these days. Both EptS and eptE got such a massive buff its really adds up to your survivability especially from declaoking ambushes that try to TB you. Sure. it takes up 4 ability slots or 3 (including 1aux2bat) but its definately worth it,
I think people both on the offensive and defensive side still havent.fully figured out the new possibilities in this game, i cant always blame them. the amount of stuff being released these days is pretty damn much so its hard to keep tabs on everything, but as high spike builds are what it is now for tacs, super tanks online is still alive as well, i simply think most ppl lost their survivability due to the loss in defensive consoles etc
How often do i see cruisers or scis with epic low bonus defense numbers, no epts/epte, beta instead of omega, 18% energy resist on hull in the best case scenario, running, romulan, khg or omega shields, combat impulse engines,etc. 15 shield power, just asking to be alphaed.
Its not funny or surprising really. The original designers were trying to work on a balanced system. They did not always get there, and sometimes were not even close, but they were trying. These days designers are fully into the progression sales cycle. Every new thing has to completely eclipse the previous one to generate sales.
If anyone has any doubts all you need to look at are how the KDF and Starfleet ships compare to the Romulan ships. While I question the sustainability of this model from MY perspective, I cannot help but wonder if STO's playerbase churn makes it sustainable for Cryptic.
I didn't say anything about decloaking.
Double taps require timing, it sometimes requires making some survivability compromises due to the ways to run it.
Personally I don't see a problem with double tap builds considering all of the things they go against are mostly passive, bloated, mitigation effects, and since just popping TT at the right time can negate this against all but the most well executed attacks.
Yeah you're definitely right, them not paying attention to PvP balance issues has really hit them hard in the wallet. :rolleyes:
I'd love for them to go back and rebalance stuff, they will not be doing this because it pisses off their massive money spending audience of PvE only players.
Feel free to delude yourself, but that's the reality of it.
The most "balancing" we will see from this point on is new things added to balance out things that might be over-performing (through itemized microtransaction counters) or to build up areas that are weak.
It was a different game back then... PVP mattered, multiplayer mattered, immersion mattered. All we have now is a single-player game, and most of the layered systems are about increasing the rate of blowing up more computer targets faster. Its so far down that path, the game is essentially immutable, and the only way to "fix" pvp is to exempt it from the existing combat model entirely.
Wow, what a surprise. Sad Pandas doesn't see anything wrong with double-tap builds. Maybe it's because that's the only way Pandas fight nowadays...
MT, you always play down whatever OP stuff you're running. Like when the BO doff came out and there was a thread about how OP it was, you were sitting there saying how it wasn't very good while at the same time you were running it and getting alpha-strike kills without even taking your target's shield facing down. Now the double-tap build that you're also running is no big deal either because of yadayadayada. How do you expect this game to ever be balanced if the people that run the OP stuff lie about its effectiveness just so they can get more kills?
@DevolvedOne
This might come as a shock, but you can kill us with that too.
It works both ways.
And if you don't mind, you're talking to two players - we are not the sum total of all opinions in our fleet. This isn't the military, it's a video game.
Do you profess to speak 100% for everyone in your fleet at once?
Please try not to make too many assumptions.
This is my opinion, in a thread full of other people's opinions.
Which OP stuff would that be? The tractor beam spamming, warp TRIBBLE spewing pets or TIF lovers, or 50s multi-target GPG spam? How about coordinated AMS usage?
Does your fleet have some list of items you guys refuse to run in the queues?
This is PvP, none of us are angels here.
There are so many mindlessly spammable abilities, and passive mitigation powers that do not require good timing or even much thought - items that are so far out of balance, that I personally don't see a problem with double tap builds that have a kill window of about 5s.
That's it, there is no conspiracy here. It's not like this tactic is a secret, the devs know it exist - if they feel it's not WAI they will change it.
I'd love to go back to running just DHCs and not having to worry about squeezing DEM and multiple BOs and Marion into builds and manually having to double tap my DBB on my hotbar, but unfortunately that is no longer as effective as it used to be.
Just about every ship out there can basically spec to be near unkillable if they really wanted to. Of all the pvp problems with abilities/inconsistencies/ships/consoles, I would say this isn't even going to make the top 100 list.
Stack BO, wait 15 seconds, stack another BO of a different level. Pop Tac buffs, fire first BO, hit weapons battery, fire second BO.
You could add in other things, like a tractor beam, or a PSW.
Honestly, even today it's really not a big issue IMO. It only really gets irking with the BO DOFF. It's only going to get less fun with the Crescent Wave weapons soon.
This. If I really cared to do so, I could stack two BOs using this method or something similar, it's just a matter of liberal battery usage. I don't feel I need it, though. Really, beyond a certain point. . .it tends to remove the challenge from the game. That's part of the reason I run with BO3 + HY3 + TB2. It's defeatable, and thus fair in my eyes.
Im sure tons of people tried it out, ive been using it on and off, im still tweaking my builds and im pretty sure its not needed to do successful double taps
I wouldnt have a single problem if rules on a specific match or tournament would to be 'no BO bleedthrough doffs'. Not a single argument from me there. And i still stand by my statement that the BO bleed doffs dont change a whole lot, some options could even be better to use depending on the build.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Something needs to be done, its getting far to easy for noobs who never played a BOP before to roll a Romulan and be able to do these alpha strikes. Make them learn how to do it properly like I do by precisely timing my decloak and tractor so BO and HY will most likely crit and torps hit bare hull. Most of the new Fed Rom double tap wonders can't be bothered to learn how to use torps in alpha strikes, I say make them learn and nerf non torpedo alphas away, and nerf cloak with training wheels from Romulan boffs so only experienced cloak users will know how to not be decloaked.
Indeed, Power Creep, OP Ships/Setups, a complete and total lack of anything remotely resembling balance... PvP is pretty solidly something you do with a total lack of seriousness if you are going to do it.