Leechers should be reported, and after being reported there should be some kind of action givin by Cryptic.
If a leecher is reported, 1st they should get a warning saying Cryptic knows about it, 2nd, if that leecher dosent listen there should be another warning saying if leeching happens again there account will be suspended for a short duration. And 3rd, if it happens a 3rd time then there account will be suspended for a short duration.
After a while there will be no more leeching because leechers would just get tired of being suspended from the game and maybe ultimately stop playing the game, and should have never started playing from the beginning.
"This is Admiral BumBleBush!..Captain of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "This is Fleet Commander BumBle!..
Vice Admiral of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..
I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
Leechers should be reported, and after being reported there should be some kind of action givin by Cryptic.
If a leecher is reported, 1st they should get a warning saying Cryptic knows about it, 2nd, if that leecher dosent listen there should be another warning saying if leeching happens again there account will be suspended for a short duration. And 3rd, if it happens a 3rd time then there account will be suspended for a short duration.
After a while there will be no more leeching because leechers would just get tired of being suspended from the game and maybe ultimately stop playing the game, and should have never started playing from the beginning.
"This is Admiral BumBleBush!..Captain of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
The problem is that reporting someone as leeching doesn't mean they are leeching - just as reporting someone as spamming in chat and forcing them into a 24 hour chat silence doesn't mean they are spamming. An automated system can be used to grief others and, unfortunately, PW just doesn't have the manpower necessary to check into every report. The PW Support team deals with 14 games and several million players. It takes weeks to get a simple Support Ticket answered even as it is.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
When there is a leecher, the only logical solution that we, as players, are left with is to go AFK ourselves. Even if the mission fails, it is still better to get a single timer for a single STF than to be blocked out from all STFs.
If one were in a hurry, then one could even use tractor beam repulsors to actually make the mission fail.
The only way to deal with leechers is to make sure that they get absolutely NOTHING.
Best said exactly, I never put forth any effort when I spot one. I simply state to the other players that a leecher is here wait my appointed time of 15mins. from the start of the mission and leave, or in the case of a bot tell them to let the bot do the work.
The problem is that reporting someone as leeching doesn't mean they are leeching - just as reporting someone as spamming in chat and forcing them into a 24 hour chat silence doesn't mean they are spamming. An automated system can be used to grief others and, unfortunately, PW just doesn't have the manpower necessary to check into every report. The PW Support team deals with 14 games and several million players. It takes weeks to get a simple Support Ticket answered even as it is.
LOL! I do know this.
And with so many games and players, it does seem almost impossible for Cryptic or PW to keep an eye out for every reported leecher in the game.
There should be some kind of timing mechanism.
If a player has entered in a team based ground or space combat, and if he or she hasent moved there toon within 5 mins of entering a combat zone cuz there trying to leech, they should be kicked and sent back to where they were be4 joining the Queue.
And something like this wouldn't be for specific players but through out the whole game for every player.
"This is Admiral BumBleBush!..Captain of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "This is Fleet Commander BumBle!..
Vice Admiral of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..
I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
Seeing that Cryptic don't appear to be taking this very seriously, should fleets be responsible for their own?
End of the day we have all been victims of someone leeching in a pug, and it seems a lot actually belong to different fleets.
I understand Starfleet Dental have someone that people can go to if anyone in their fleet is 'misbehaving' and as such, would other fleet leaders be interested in this? i.e nominating themselves on the forums to be a point of contact in a particular fleet. Not naming and shaming anyone in public, but putting people forwards as points of contact fleet for fleets on here so someone can look it up on here, find the fleet and someone can go to them if they have an issue with a member of their fleet... And the fleet takes it's own action whatever that may be.
Obviously, if the leecher is not in a fleet they are going to be immune but...well.. they ain't gonna go far without a fleet for their leeched fleet marks.
Would this work? If so, is there any interest?
My main character is a founder in a fleet and we have a set number of complaints required to look into leeching incidents.
if someone should pm/mail me about a leeching member, i wouldnt do a single thing about it, without evidence.
with evidance, i would think the player got a reason to do so, wrong or right, but still wouldnt take any action, the reason?
the promotions in the fleet are based of time spend as a recruit, and contributions,
based on this a member may stay, be promoted, or get booted,also we take in considerration how a member performs in oure fleet channel,and bank deposits/withdraws, other then that, no reason to pro/demote,to kick or whatever...
sorry to say it, but leeching doesnt have any conseqeunses in oure fleet, shall we make a protocol abot it?
i dont think so.
well, i do know you guys gonna roflstomp me for this, but i do hope some of you see the logic behind this.
besides this being sayed,lets try to trace the origin or the reason why people leech in the first place, because i do think thats more constructive as beating a dead horse,or dyiing horse XD
i personally think, most people leech because of the following:
1, the rep system.
we have 3 reputation systems to max out, being from tier 1 t tier 5.
each system does have its own kind of marks, which are aviable by doing certain missions,or missions that give you a choice which you want.
some people dont have the time to play all the missions to get there projects going.
is it bad to leech? yes
but...is t understandeble? yes it is.
in case of pvp, people need the passive's to be on the same level as the others, extending the level gap even more,which is another story, but, this does make that people feel the need to get there reps maxedout, in case of a casual player, maxing out the rep system consumes to much time,and because each rep system is in need of another currency, it does take much time.
2, fleet system.
we already have 3 tiers, being mine,embassy and main fleetbase, which is defided in 4 seperate holdings.
we all now that small fleets struggle to get past t3,or, in some cases tier 2.
we also all know that the missions rewarding fleet marks have been hit with the nerf bat really hard.
i admit, some where needed, because they where exploited, for others it doesnt make any sense at all.
this doesnt change the fact, that the dilithuim prices, aswell as the marks itself, are still high, and not for everyone easy to acquire,making this a second grind, above the rep system, being both time consuming, and both are always the same sets of mission, does make it boring aswell, so people thing its easy to leech, and drin there cup of tea, then participate in the match, and i do understand it.
is this the players fault? for a small part, yes.
is it cryptics fault stimulating this new trend? yes it is, also not fully, but for 80% yes.
thanks to all the grinds designed by cryptic, thanks to all the different currencys designed by cryptic, and last but not least, the price's for the fleet project and reputation projects designed by cryptic, i do think they are to blame aswell.
MY POST DOESNT REFLECT WHAT THE OTHER MEMBERS THINK OR FIND ABOUT THE SUBJECT, MY POST ONLY CONTAINS MY OPINION.
use the hanger bay pet 5 star system and
Apply the 5 star system to players
but without the buffs, and gain points
with kills / assist kills. use that method
for rewarding players in pve queues.
Okay... here is my idea... but you won't like it. I have played a TRIBBLE ton of STF's and pugged PvP. I've rarely ever encountered serious AFK'ers. More often it's someone whose system locked up or they got, otherwise, interrupted by RL events of some sort. Even that happens rarely. I've also rarely run in to serious "noob" issues or totally lame PUG's. It has happened... but not often enough to be a problem. I do know some who seem to run into it all the time. I've given long and careful thought as to why it seems to happen so often to some and not others. I think the difference is this... I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE. :rolleyes:
See I've noticed that the players who seem to be most likely to run in to that sort of thing are EXACTLY the sort of players who are driven crazy mad by it. Who will agonize, rant and rave about it and spend a lot of time trying to "fix" the problem. You create your own reality... soooooo... the solution? Turn off your "give a damn". :P
Seriously... try it. Give it about 3 weeks or so... when it happens... meh! ... just don't care... I'll bet in just a few weeks you'll notice a tremendous decrease in the number of incidents
*STO*Its mission: To destroy strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations... and then kill them, to boldly annihilate what no one has annihilated before!
sort in pve mission will be hard but if you say dps will be calculated and only top 3 dps players get loot the others typical stf destroyers nothing i vote for yes.:D
on that way nuubs will never more come on the idea to join random stfs only for free reward, it will become useless for them all.
but in ground mission this system will not work or be fair, but in space yes,
only the prob with kithomere grspace like the othr one say if 2 protect vortex the cant outdps the structur destroyers.
So, if you don't run an escort, you don't get paid?
Let's face it. Against comparably equipped starships and equally skilled players, an Escort will rule in DPS. Using ONLY DPS as a metric to guage effectiveness is bad. Here's an example of why.
Khitomer Accord, Space, Elite. As a sci captain in an Atrox, I *CANNOT* pump out the damage that, say, an Andorian Escort, or Fleet HEC can. It just isn't going to happen. But... I have all sorts of nifty movement control skills... tractor beams, beam target engines, 2X gravity well, heavy graviton beam, and hangars with danubes, to name a few. So I play to my role. I help on the trans/gens/gates when I can, but in between, I take down the probes, holding them and destroying them before they can cause the optional, and mission, to fail.
Im the above example, I have contributed significantly to the success of the team. However, my DPS is significantly lower than that of the Andorian escort. Using DPS as the only metric means that, while someone else blew stuff up, doing more DPS, but contributing less to the overall success of the mission, they get paid better than I do, despite my being one of the main contributors.
As for other measurement systems, inclusion of DPS isn't a bad thing. Including heals (this part is important...) GIVEN TO OTHER PLAYERS (otherwise, someone can just sit and heal themselves over and over, and be rewarded), ressurection, skill use, distance moved, damage prevented (ie, beam target weapons causes a weapons disable, the average DPS of that ship is added to the player's score for the match), damage increases given (disruptor breaches, which boost EVERYONE's damage, the difference being given to the player causing the breach), and so on, would need to be included.
I like the idea of scoring effectiveness as a part of the reward for players, I just think that DPS is not the sole determining factor that should be used to determine effectiveness.
Yep, as it should be. People need to stop complaining. Players can play exactly how they want, if you dont like, feel free to private match/queue.
And what about players who don't have a fleet yet, haven't made many friends in game, that are just being introduced to STF's and the VA-level PVE stuff? If everyone who is active goes to private queues, there won't be many experienced players in STF's to help them, or to complete the missions.
Also. Ever tried filling a mine trap or starbase defense mission with 20 players in a private queue? You can practically build the mission in the Foundry in less time than it takes, unless you have a very large active fleet where nobody is tied up in missions.
As a couple of notes. For people saying that AFKing during matches isn't a violation of the Terms of Service, I present PWE's TOS.
Section 10:
k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
Ok, that's a loose interpretation of "cheating", I'll grant. But IMO it applies, unless PWE/Cryptic intends players to idle to gain marks and/or dil.
And how about...
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
I find that losing due to people not playing the match prevents me from enjoying that part of the game. And 112+ pages of people complaining about this aspect tells me that I'm not alone. But hey, it could be argued that it doesn't apply. So what about...
PWE may take any actions and impose any penalties we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within PWE's discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community and the Website. By using the Website, you agree you will be bound by PWE's determination as to whether a violation has occurred and any penalty we choose to implement.
It doesn't *HAVE* to be against the TOS for PWE to take action. Quitting matches early falls under that category. It was not against the TOS for players to leave STF matches early, and yet they took action. Why can't the same apply to AFKing during a match, especially given the CLEAR indications by the community that the act of going AFK (or worse, actively idling, that is, chatting in zone/team about how they will get free marks for idling and not partaking...) is something that should be addressed?
Oh my God! You mean they might be forced to make friends and do a little basic research, like checking out fleet recruitment on the Forums? Or join a global channel dedicated to STF's? How horrible!
Despite what you've said I'm not seeing a downside to private queues.
I don't see a problem with them, but what I see a problem with is that we should be forced to resort to ONLY private queues, when a system could be implemented to deal with this issue, and resolve the problem, without needing to.
also what Cryptic don't realise is that probably 99% of the people who regulary afk in certain instances, I would suspect are running automated bot programs to log them in and hit need on every single item that spawns.
I would be so tempted to set up a separate website to list every single afker in the game so we can start putting them on ignore lists so we never have to group with them again. But I suspect that cryptic will force us to group with them no matter what.
also what Cryptic don't realise is that probably 99% of the people who regulary afk in certain instances, I would suspect are running automated bot programs to log them in and hit need on every single item that spawns.
I would be so tempted to set up a separate website to list every single afker in the game so we can start putting them on ignore lists so we never have to group with them again. But I suspect that cryptic will force us to group with them no matter what.
Why make a seperate website? We could use the forums. Just include the username@handle, and what mission. At least if nothing else, we'd have a wall of shame, and they would be able to tangibly see some of the offenders.
Why make a seperate website? We could use the forums. Just include the username@handle, and what mission. At least if nothing else, we'd have a wall of shame, and they would be able to tangibly see some of the offenders.
Because naming and shaming is not allowed. if people want to do it they would have to take it elsewhere.
We also only have one persons word on it, and this is what causes problems. I could accuse you of being an AFK leacher and even though it would be a lie and you could strenously say it is a lie, the damage is done.
Because naming and shaming is not allowed. if people want to do it they would ahve to take it elsewhere.
We also only have one persons word on it, and this is what causes problems. I could accuse you of being an SFK leacher and even though it would be a lie and you could strenously say it is a lie, the damage is done.
Why make a seperate website? We could use the forums. Just include the username@handle, and what mission. At least if nothing else, we'd have a wall of shame, and they would be able to tangibly see some of the offenders.
Or Cryptic should implement a system of afk reports and if a "offender" gets a certain amount of reports... he can be "investigated" and banned (temporarily or permanently) if found guilty.
Any automated form of discovering them can probably be abused so I wouldn't vote for anything of that manner.
Merely having a good report system in place and working properly for a while will have them reduced to either giving up their activities or giving up the game.
Some options (based on the old AD+D alignment system choose the one that suits you best)
Lawful good option
Simply reduce the reward til its not worth them doing this , a reward that goes down and down as the timer ticks away would do this
Tighter rules for the public good
Neutral Good option
Log out anyone who doesn't move or fire for 30 seconds and bring in someone else
(reseting the timer By a minute each time)
Chaotic good option
Log out yourself that will teach them
Lawful neutral option
Set the missions so if it Fails there is NO reward they pull their weight or it fails
True Neutral option
leave it alone it will find its own balance
Chaotic neutral option
Automatically phase shift afkers into an instance together and pull together the people ACTIVE into one instance (longer clock and lesser number of targets carry over)
Lawful Evil option
Anyone who fails to respawn when downed in ground combat accumulates ALL injurys the rest of the team gets
Anyone further than 100 metres from team at end (and not Dead) gets no reward
anyone who LEAVES the match leaves with a full set of injurys
In space the ship takes the damage
and distance is 50 km
Neutral evil option
Create an AFK instance
sit in it for 30 minutes you get the reward
Chaotic evil option
randomly delete the account of one AFK every hour on the hour
I'll be a devil's advocate here
Lawful Good
What if you're kicked out due to networking issues and had to rejoin the STF?
Neutral Good
I can see alot of legitimate players being kicked out due to networking issues, and the rest of the teammates complaining why STO is so xxxx
Chaotic Good
If team leader can log out and bring down the game himself, i can foresee alot of trolls doing this at the very last minute, to obtain self satisfaction. From exp in Me3, One can also find themselves replaying the mission if the team leader gets kicked out due to lag.
Lawful neutral
Not effective
True neutral
Good option. Current system is fine the way it is
Chaotic neutral
it will create more problems, server side in implenting this
Lawful Evil
Discriminates alot of legitimate games. Why should games be penalised and forced to play a game on rails ( following the team anand staying within x metres of them )
Neutral Evil
This is good.
Chaotic Evil
i do not see how this will fit in and it would further aggravate legitimate gamers who find their own accounts being deleted
I used to play Mass Effect 3 before STO, and i see similar problems being paralleled here.
Examining the situation
The root cause of AFK is that of players looking for an easy way out to earn in-game currency. This was further exacerbate when Tour was removed.
What is the definition of AFK
Using time as a gauge of AFK is not very reliable. A 2 min kick timer was implemented in Mass Effect 3 and it had the irritating effect of being kicking you out when you had to go to the restroom or answer a call. This then made you waste a good amount of your time in the STF / Mission because of the kick timer. This method can be circumvented via a macro that does something every x min
Having a vote kick option is an acceptable method, but then, we will have scenarios where a player is rejected simply because his build does not do enough DPS.
A proper gauge of AFK is that of a reasonable amount of damage inflicted that does not favour DPS TRIBBLE but yet also allows for support players to fall within the reasonable DPS range, is imo an effective gauge.
Aside from addressing the direct problems, Cryptic also should address the indirect problems of how a player can expect to earn in-game currency effectively, passively, without a high barrier to entry.
I think they need to get rid of the leaver penalty as for low dps players not getting groups, we will carry anyone who is low dps if they are actually trying to play the game. IT angers us that we are forced to carry someone who is afk.
start forming private teams and being accused of being "elitist jerks" when we're only trying to exercise our right to enjoy the game without being plagued by AFKers, and other disruptive types of players.
Actualy that is not being elitist at all, there will always be pugs pugging along even if all the experianced players do private teams unless nobody is around or they want to visit the pugs. Pugs will learn how to do the eSTF's and eventualy learn of the channel and start doing private teams where they will be taught what they did not learn in pugs. it would be a more natural progression from newb to experianced team wise. It also will get rid of the "L2P NOOB!" shouters in pug eSTF's unless they get booted from the channel...
Absolutely nothing elitist unless being new to the channel means no invites. But offering to run a PvE bootcamp to new players would kill any elitist accusations.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
leeching HAs become less widespread, which is good to know. Problem is it still happens. what I am trying to say (and all you keyboard warriors holier than thou take note) that if Cryptic/PWE aren't going to do something maybe it's time for the players to do something.
If you haven't experienced leeching then good for you! But to those who have then it is frustrating.
Allow me to clarify... Leeching is not participating, but using the work and actions of others to get rewards. If you have an emergency and need to disappear, that's absolutely fine. If you get a complaint then chances are it can be explained, and it won't happen again if it is innocent.
But if you continuously join an STF, your ship is banged up cos you have spawned and not repaired so many times, maybe you even fly towards the edge of the map... either way, you don't participate in the game but bid for the loot then join another and continue...rinse and repeat, you should be named and shamed. Believe me... this would work with the right backing... then the regular leechers would find that the word would spread and eventually they might find themselves without a fleet.
So... Who wants to help me? Might not happen to you but it does happen...
Any willing volunteers who would like to help create an unofficial reporting system, please mail me @romeowhiskey4.
you cant name and shame people here.. it will get you banned..
plus not all of those people you will mention are intentionally afk.. some have lost connection or lagged out.
i would go to say its more then likely the later then the former most of the time.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I have not come across a leecher since LOR i personally sometimes have to go AFK if one of my twins start crying during my playing but I always apologise to the team and get back to it as soon as I possibly can but have never pressed need during the time until I return to participate. However there should be something in place for example if you don't participate and just press need that you are the last one to get any items and the end reward should not apply no marks no dilithium and no items.
I know this will affect me on occasion but I believe the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have not come across a leecher since LOR i personally sometimes have to go AFK if one of my twins start crying during my playing but I always apologise to the team and get back to it as soon as I possibly can but have never pressed need during the time until I return to participate. However there should be something in place for example if you don't participate and just press need that you are the last one to get any items and the end reward should not apply no marks no dilithium and no items.
I know this will affect me on occasion but I believe the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
we really wouldnt have the problems that we have if there was no cool downs.
i join a fleet alert, or starbase defense.. i see a few lower level players.. if i knew i didnt have to wait out 30 minutes from a failed mission.. i wouldnt bail..
i would just play and have fun.. knowing ill only get half the fleet marks.. but i could replay right away it wouldnt matter.. specially sine the bonus event is only 2 hours long, thats 4 30 minute missions..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I had one of those using scripts - he was doing circles on full impulse in CSE. I asked the team in chat if we're going to carry him - after a minute with no answer, I stopped doing anything - a minute later the Kang was almost overwhelmed by enemies and the leecher started to participate.
I really don't mind letting a mission fail.
i mind.. i am not going to sit out an hour because someone let a mission fail.
i would say this would be considered griefing more by the GMs then being afk..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
Comments
If a leecher is reported, 1st they should get a warning saying Cryptic knows about it, 2nd, if that leecher dosent listen there should be another warning saying if leeching happens again there account will be suspended for a short duration. And 3rd, if it happens a 3rd time then there account will be suspended for a short duration.
After a while there will be no more leeching because leechers would just get tired of being suspended from the game and maybe ultimately stop playing the game, and should have never started playing from the beginning.
"This is Admiral BumBleBush!..Captain of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
"This is Fleet Commander BumBle!..
Vice Admiral of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..
I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
Quit pugging, problem solved.
Best said exactly, I never put forth any effort when I spot one. I simply state to the other players that a leecher is here wait my appointed time of 15mins. from the start of the mission and leave, or in the case of a bot tell them to let the bot do the work.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
LOL! I do know this.
And with so many games and players, it does seem almost impossible for Cryptic or PW to keep an eye out for every reported leecher in the game.
There should be some kind of timing mechanism.
If a player has entered in a team based ground or space combat, and if he or she hasent moved there toon within 5 mins of entering a combat zone cuz there trying to leech, they should be kicked and sent back to where they were be4 joining the Queue.
And something like this wouldn't be for specific players but through out the whole game for every player.
"This is Admiral BumBleBush!..Captain of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
"This is Fleet Commander BumBle!..
Vice Admiral of the U.S.S. Prometheus!..
I order you to lower your shields and weapons or ill be forced to fire upon you!!!"
My main character is a founder in a fleet and we have a set number of complaints required to look into leeching incidents.
My KDF alt is in a fleet that does the same.
if someone should pm/mail me about a leeching member, i wouldnt do a single thing about it, without evidence.
with evidance, i would think the player got a reason to do so, wrong or right, but still wouldnt take any action, the reason?
the promotions in the fleet are based of time spend as a recruit, and contributions,
based on this a member may stay, be promoted, or get booted,also we take in considerration how a member performs in oure fleet channel,and bank deposits/withdraws, other then that, no reason to pro/demote,to kick or whatever...
sorry to say it, but leeching doesnt have any conseqeunses in oure fleet, shall we make a protocol abot it?
i dont think so.
well, i do know you guys gonna roflstomp me for this, but i do hope some of you see the logic behind this.
besides this being sayed,lets try to trace the origin or the reason why people leech in the first place, because i do think thats more constructive as beating a dead horse,or dyiing horse XD
i personally think, most people leech because of the following:
1, the rep system.
we have 3 reputation systems to max out, being from tier 1 t tier 5.
each system does have its own kind of marks, which are aviable by doing certain missions,or missions that give you a choice which you want.
some people dont have the time to play all the missions to get there projects going.
is it bad to leech? yes
but...is t understandeble? yes it is.
in case of pvp, people need the passive's to be on the same level as the others, extending the level gap even more,which is another story, but, this does make that people feel the need to get there reps maxedout, in case of a casual player, maxing out the rep system consumes to much time,and because each rep system is in need of another currency, it does take much time.
2, fleet system.
we already have 3 tiers, being mine,embassy and main fleetbase, which is defided in 4 seperate holdings.
we all now that small fleets struggle to get past t3,or, in some cases tier 2.
we also all know that the missions rewarding fleet marks have been hit with the nerf bat really hard.
i admit, some where needed, because they where exploited, for others it doesnt make any sense at all.
this doesnt change the fact, that the dilithuim prices, aswell as the marks itself, are still high, and not for everyone easy to acquire,making this a second grind, above the rep system, being both time consuming, and both are always the same sets of mission, does make it boring aswell, so people thing its easy to leech, and drin there cup of tea, then participate in the match, and i do understand it.
is this the players fault? for a small part, yes.
is it cryptics fault stimulating this new trend? yes it is, also not fully, but for 80% yes.
thanks to all the grinds designed by cryptic, thanks to all the different currencys designed by cryptic, and last but not least, the price's for the fleet project and reputation projects designed by cryptic, i do think they are to blame aswell.
MY POST DOESNT REFLECT WHAT THE OTHER MEMBERS THINK OR FIND ABOUT THE SUBJECT, MY POST ONLY CONTAINS MY OPINION.
use the hanger bay pet 5 star system and
Apply the 5 star system to players
but without the buffs, and gain points
with kills / assist kills. use that method
for rewarding players in pve queues.
See I've noticed that the players who seem to be most likely to run in to that sort of thing are EXACTLY the sort of players who are driven crazy mad by it. Who will agonize, rant and rave about it and spend a lot of time trying to "fix" the problem. You create your own reality... soooooo... the solution? Turn off your "give a damn". :P
Seriously... try it. Give it about 3 weeks or so... when it happens... meh!
So, if you don't run an escort, you don't get paid?
Let's face it. Against comparably equipped starships and equally skilled players, an Escort will rule in DPS. Using ONLY DPS as a metric to guage effectiveness is bad. Here's an example of why.
Khitomer Accord, Space, Elite. As a sci captain in an Atrox, I *CANNOT* pump out the damage that, say, an Andorian Escort, or Fleet HEC can. It just isn't going to happen. But... I have all sorts of nifty movement control skills... tractor beams, beam target engines, 2X gravity well, heavy graviton beam, and hangars with danubes, to name a few. So I play to my role. I help on the trans/gens/gates when I can, but in between, I take down the probes, holding them and destroying them before they can cause the optional, and mission, to fail.
Im the above example, I have contributed significantly to the success of the team. However, my DPS is significantly lower than that of the Andorian escort. Using DPS as the only metric means that, while someone else blew stuff up, doing more DPS, but contributing less to the overall success of the mission, they get paid better than I do, despite my being one of the main contributors.
As for other measurement systems, inclusion of DPS isn't a bad thing. Including heals (this part is important...) GIVEN TO OTHER PLAYERS (otherwise, someone can just sit and heal themselves over and over, and be rewarded), ressurection, skill use, distance moved, damage prevented (ie, beam target weapons causes a weapons disable, the average DPS of that ship is added to the player's score for the match), damage increases given (disruptor breaches, which boost EVERYONE's damage, the difference being given to the player causing the breach), and so on, would need to be included.
I like the idea of scoring effectiveness as a part of the reward for players, I just think that DPS is not the sole determining factor that should be used to determine effectiveness.
And, also, what about Infected Space? That mission *CANNOT* fail.
And what about players who don't have a fleet yet, haven't made many friends in game, that are just being introduced to STF's and the VA-level PVE stuff? If everyone who is active goes to private queues, there won't be many experienced players in STF's to help them, or to complete the missions.
Also. Ever tried filling a mine trap or starbase defense mission with 20 players in a private queue? You can practically build the mission in the Foundry in less time than it takes, unless you have a very large active fleet where nobody is tied up in missions.
Section 10:
k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
Ok, that's a loose interpretation of "cheating", I'll grant. But IMO it applies, unless PWE/Cryptic intends players to idle to gain marks and/or dil.
And how about...
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
I find that losing due to people not playing the match prevents me from enjoying that part of the game. And 112+ pages of people complaining about this aspect tells me that I'm not alone. But hey, it could be argued that it doesn't apply. So what about...
PWE may take any actions and impose any penalties we deem necessary to discourage and punish any violation of these terms or any other illegal or inappropriate conduct, all without prior notice or warning. The determination as to whether a violation has occurred and who is responsible for such act is solely within PWE's discretion, and is based on what we deem best for the community and the Website. By using the Website, you agree you will be bound by PWE's determination as to whether a violation has occurred and any penalty we choose to implement.
It doesn't *HAVE* to be against the TOS for PWE to take action. Quitting matches early falls under that category. It was not against the TOS for players to leave STF matches early, and yet they took action. Why can't the same apply to AFKing during a match, especially given the CLEAR indications by the community that the act of going AFK (or worse, actively idling, that is, chatting in zone/team about how they will get free marks for idling and not partaking...) is something that should be addressed?
I don't see a problem with them, but what I see a problem with is that we should be forced to resort to ONLY private queues, when a system could be implemented to deal with this issue, and resolve the problem, without needing to.
I would be so tempted to set up a separate website to list every single afker in the game so we can start putting them on ignore lists so we never have to group with them again. But I suspect that cryptic will force us to group with them no matter what.
Why make a seperate website? We could use the forums. Just include the username@handle, and what mission. At least if nothing else, we'd have a wall of shame, and they would be able to tangibly see some of the offenders.
Because naming and shaming is not allowed. if people want to do it they would have to take it elsewhere.
We also only have one persons word on it, and this is what causes problems. I could accuse you of being an AFK leacher and even though it would be a lie and you could strenously say it is a lie, the damage is done.
Fair enough.
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → Ⓑ Ⓐ
Or Cryptic should implement a system of afk reports and if a "offender" gets a certain amount of reports... he can be "investigated" and banned (temporarily or permanently) if found guilty.
Any automated form of discovering them can probably be abused so I wouldn't vote for anything of that manner.
Merely having a good report system in place and working properly for a while will have them reduced to either giving up their activities or giving up the game.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
I'll be a devil's advocate here
Lawful Good
What if you're kicked out due to networking issues and had to rejoin the STF?
Neutral Good
I can see alot of legitimate players being kicked out due to networking issues, and the rest of the teammates complaining why STO is so xxxx
Chaotic Good
If team leader can log out and bring down the game himself, i can foresee alot of trolls doing this at the very last minute, to obtain self satisfaction. From exp in Me3, One can also find themselves replaying the mission if the team leader gets kicked out due to lag.
Lawful neutral
Not effective
True neutral
Good option. Current system is fine the way it is
Chaotic neutral
it will create more problems, server side in implenting this
Lawful Evil
Discriminates alot of legitimate games. Why should games be penalised and forced to play a game on rails ( following the team anand staying within x metres of them )
Neutral Evil
This is good.
Chaotic Evil
i do not see how this will fit in and it would further aggravate legitimate gamers who find their own accounts being deleted
I used to play Mass Effect 3 before STO, and i see similar problems being paralleled here.
Examining the situation
The root cause of AFK is that of players looking for an easy way out to earn in-game currency. This was further exacerbate when Tour was removed.
What is the definition of AFK
Using time as a gauge of AFK is not very reliable. A 2 min kick timer was implemented in Mass Effect 3 and it had the irritating effect of being kicking you out when you had to go to the restroom or answer a call. This then made you waste a good amount of your time in the STF / Mission because of the kick timer. This method can be circumvented via a macro that does something every x min
Having a vote kick option is an acceptable method, but then, we will have scenarios where a player is rejected simply because his build does not do enough DPS.
A proper gauge of AFK is that of a reasonable amount of damage inflicted that does not favour DPS TRIBBLE but yet also allows for support players to fall within the reasonable DPS range, is imo an effective gauge.
Aside from addressing the direct problems, Cryptic also should address the indirect problems of how a player can expect to earn in-game currency effectively, passively, without a high barrier to entry.
Actualy that is not being elitist at all, there will always be pugs pugging along even if all the experianced players do private teams unless nobody is around or they want to visit the pugs. Pugs will learn how to do the eSTF's and eventualy learn of the channel and start doing private teams where they will be taught what they did not learn in pugs. it would be a more natural progression from newb to experianced team wise. It also will get rid of the "L2P NOOB!" shouters in pug eSTF's unless they get booted from the channel...
Absolutely nothing elitist unless being new to the channel means no invites. But offering to run a PvE bootcamp to new players would kill any elitist accusations.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
If you haven't experienced leeching then good for you! But to those who have then it is frustrating.
Allow me to clarify... Leeching is not participating, but using the work and actions of others to get rewards. If you have an emergency and need to disappear, that's absolutely fine. If you get a complaint then chances are it can be explained, and it won't happen again if it is innocent.
But if you continuously join an STF, your ship is banged up cos you have spawned and not repaired so many times, maybe you even fly towards the edge of the map... either way, you don't participate in the game but bid for the loot then join another and continue...rinse and repeat, you should be named and shamed. Believe me... this would work with the right backing... then the regular leechers would find that the word would spread and eventually they might find themselves without a fleet.
So... Who wants to help me? Might not happen to you but it does happen...
Any willing volunteers who would like to help create an unofficial reporting system, please mail me @romeowhiskey4.
plus not all of those people you will mention are intentionally afk.. some have lost connection or lagged out.
i would go to say its more then likely the later then the former most of the time.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I know this will affect me on occasion but I believe the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
we really wouldnt have the problems that we have if there was no cool downs.
i join a fleet alert, or starbase defense.. i see a few lower level players.. if i knew i didnt have to wait out 30 minutes from a failed mission.. i wouldnt bail..
i would just play and have fun.. knowing ill only get half the fleet marks.. but i could replay right away it wouldnt matter.. specially sine the bonus event is only 2 hours long, thats 4 30 minute missions..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I really don't mind letting a mission fail.
i mind.. i am not going to sit out an hour because someone let a mission fail.
i would say this would be considered griefing more by the GMs then being afk..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.