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Pros/cons Of Removing Penalty Timer

matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
I vote for the removal of the penalty timer.

Pros:
1. no more afkers
2. no more arses
3. ppl have to learn to play correctly or wont be able to find team in pug.
4. normal players can quit if the pug they're in are full of arses who don't listen, or afkers.

Cons:
Ppl would say quitters, but shouldn't we ask why we have quitters in 1st place? the answers are above.

In brief, why must normal player be punished with timer? The game pugs become less enjoyable since the implement the timer.

Post you pros and cons with the timer and let the devs know.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • genghismaulgenghismaul Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I agree many a 30 minute STF with not so capable players that were unwilling to listen and/or poorly equipped. 1 or 2 afkers suckin up the free koolaid because 30 mins is better than anhour of waiting because i had the misfortune of being teamed with them and no way out except the 60 minute penalty while they just get to rejoin another group since i left first...

    And yes it may be abused but if your winning and everyone is paying attention and participating do you really think anyone is going to leave before the reward?
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,456 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Isn't this like the 10th thread you've made for the same idea now? Repeating a bad idea doesn't make it any less bad.
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  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,462 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    This again.......this kids is the definition of insanity.:P
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  • matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I will repost and pump the idea til it is heard. Why? because I wasn't here when the timer got implemented. Therefore, my voice wasn't heard. Also I don't like the kick option because it will eventually lead to another form of abuse.

    And tell me why that timer removal is a bad idea? Before timer, we have only to deal with quitters. I don't have problem with that because I know how to play. Moreover, without the timer, ppl have to learn how to play because if they don't, no one want to play with them.

    Nowaday, with the timer, opl know that other players are forced to stay, resulting afkers and noobs that don't want to learn how to play (aka arses.)

    Am I the only one here feel being punished and unfair because of the penal timer? Why am I stuck with afkers or bad players?

    So, why should we remove the timer? 'cause it solved existing problems (afkers/arses/bad players) without create another form of abuse.
  • matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Anyone who is afraid of quitters and wants want timer to stay... probably is an afker or TRIBBLE 'cause without the timer, they probably wont be able to play in pugs... when no1 wants them. I don't see any other reason than that.
  • tenchivutenchivu Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Yeah bring the pugs back to before timer. I'm tired of having no choice but to play with afkers and idiots. We basically trade quitters for afkers and idiots.

    Sure there were quitters, but so what? ppl have the choice to do private instance to avoid quitters. Imo, remove the timer and see how things are. The only reason ppl quit is: other players are sux/idiots. So tell me what kinda game forces ppl to play with idiots/afkers. It would take less time to quit and re-queue than playing with idiots.

    If you aren't sux, other players wont quit on you. The pug isn't a place to learn how to play. We have private instance for that. STO pug model is backward. It forces good players to play in private. A normal model should be: players should know how to play in pugs because if you don't, you would be kicked out of the pug. Since STO didn't have a kick option, the orginal pugs didn't have the timer.

    If you're tired of afkers and idiots, ask the devs to remove the timer. Good/decent players wont have to deal with afkers and idiots wihout the timer.
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Honestly, afkers are a waste of space (pun intended), but new players I can deal with. Folks new to a given mission aren't necessarily bad players... but for the love of <whatever you do> please ask what to do before charging into combat, or at least pick someone to play wingman for so you can watch and learn how they react to a given situation.

    I don't like the timers for a different reason: personally, I've had the timer kick in on more than one occasion when the server fails to transfer me *into* the STF map. Having a time penalty means that the penalty must be designed and implemented correctly to serve its desired function... and since there don't seem to be actual GMs or a decent turnaround time for tickets you lose out entirely when the system fails to function correctly. While this usually only occurs after a big patch/update, it is still irksome since customer service seems either unable (due to capability, system, or organizational limitations) or unwilling to do anything that actually helps when this does happen.

    Anyway, back to the topic at hand... timer bad, afk bad, pugs fine; noobs can learn, idiots cannot.
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  • tenchivutenchivu Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Has anyone ever got pug into a middle of the match where there is an afker and 2 idiots? I have, and it's sux big.

    The two idiots kept approaching the boss even we kept telling them that it would cloak if they were within 5km. It was the longest estf ever. It took 90min to finish it 'cause the boss just cloaked as soon as it decloaked due to the 2 idiots. Normally it would be done in 20min if the dps is good.. 30min max.
  • taschenbillard12taschenbillard12 Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    easiest way to improve the pug experience would be : dont team me up with someone on my ignore list - i have seen this in other mmos and it seems to work great
  • matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    easiest way to improve the pug experience would be : dont team me up with someone on my ignore list - i have seen this in other mmos and it seems to work great

    Good idea, but with the devs' record track... it's gonna take a while.. for them to implement this feature... not mentioning all the bugs that come along. Just give us the quick fix 1st by remove the penalty timer while we're waiting for the feature to implement.

    *** pump this thread if you want a quick fix to the current afkers/idiots problem in pug.
  • sjameshsjamesh Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The penalty timer should NEVER be taken away.
    Say NO to ARC!!!!!
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  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    [clears throat] I am going to say this again for the umpteenth time. After 15mins from the start of the mission has passed you can leave without suffering the leaver's penalty.
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  • bubblygumsworthbubblygumsworth Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    [clears throat] I am going to say this again for the umpteenth time. After 15mins from the start of the mission has passed you can leave without suffering the leaver's penalty.

    Only if 2 players have already bailed and taken a cooldown penalty.
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  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Only if 2 players have already bailed and taken a cooldown penalty.

    No you can be the first to leave without penalty, I use it quite often and go about reforming with another pug group all the time.
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  • tenchivutenchivu Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    [clears throat] I am going to say this again for the umpteenth time. After 15mins from the start of the mission has passed you can leave without suffering the leaver's penalty.

    Yeah... but the most of the pugs last about that long to finish lol. If you can only quit after 15min... then what do you do during that 15min? afked? Time is wasted whatever you do. It's more reasonable if the devs let us leave after 5min (1/3 of the total time.)


    The whole point here is about afkers/idiots no? Stuck with them for 15min is very long time. Why cant they just make all the pugs like the nukara ones. Remind me why the timer is implemented again? quitters? The reasons why ppl quit? if it's to find a better group.. it's a good/valid reason because players, who do not want to learn how to play as a team, have no place in pugs. So until the devs implement the no grouping with ppl on ignore-list. I would like to have the timer removed in order to solve the two most annoying problems atm: afkers/idiots.

    As the OP states, list the pros/cons on the penalty timer. The OP also makes a valid point: only idiots/afkers are afraid of the removal of timer because a good player has no fear of being dumped by others.
  • erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    matrix0 wrote: »
    I will repost and pump the idea til it is heard. Why? because I wasn't here when the timer got implemented. Therefore, my voice wasn't heard. Also I don't like the kick option because it will eventually lead to another form of abuse.
    I'm sorry if you were under the impression that STO development is a democracy. It's not.
    Also, the penalty exist for a reason, and you failed to mention it in your cons. So, I'll add it there :

    con : a lot of people would leave a team for some reason (lack of dps, don't like the template of someone, fail to listen, fail to talk, fail the optional, because they don't like German/French/whatever, because it's sunny outside....). Meaning it would be difficult to have a full party.

    The penalty is here for a reason, and it's not to annoy people. I suffered from this penalty several times, from bugs to leaving a half empty team struggling to kill a probe. Doesn't mean I want it removed.

    If you don't like pugging, join a fleet, play with friends, or join a channel for grouping.
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,456 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    matrix0 wrote: »
    I will repost and pump the idea til it is heard.

    Fairly certain your idea was heard. The answer from the Devs is no. The penalty timer was implemented for a reason, and those reasons have been conveyed to you through the course of the dozen or more posts you've tried making about this. The timers aren't getting removed, no matter how many threads you make about it. At this point, you're just spamming the forums.
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  • matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    erei1 wrote: »
    I'm sorry if you were under the impression that STO development is a democracy. It's not.
    Also, the penalty exist for a reason, and you failed to mention it in your cons. So, I'll add it there :

    con : a lot of people would leave a team for some reason (lack of dps, don't like the template of someone, fail to listen, fail to talk, fail the optional, because they don't like German/French/whatever, because it's sunny outside....). Meaning it would be difficult to have a full party.

    The penalty is here for a reason, and it's not to annoy people. I suffered from this penalty several times, from bugs to leaving a half empty team struggling to kill a probe. Doesn't mean I want it removed.

    If you don't like pugging, join a fleet, play with friends, or join a channel for grouping.

    What is wrong to leave with all the reasons you've listed above? I personally don't think ppl would leave based on your cons because we still lose time when we quit and repug... whenever there is a timer or not.

    Whoever wants to keep the timer in place, they're just either afkers or arses because they all know that if there isn't the timer, no1 will want to play with them... and they probably cant find a private team to play with.
  • matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    And for those who say that why don't you make a team with your friends/fleet. Then I would say the samething back at you... why don't you play with friends/fleet if you don't want to encounter quitters in pugs?

    I've already said that only a small percentage of players frequent the forum, so making changes based on those feedback is wrong. Off course, it isn't democratic because the devs ultimately make the final decision. However, it's still based on the feedback from the forum which is after all where they get ideas to improve the game.

    I've played since 2010 but never visited the forum. Also, I've never known why the timer was installed until recently because of afkers and idiots in pugs. People (like myself) dont quit just because the players are new or of their gears. They quit because there are idiots who cant play in team or afkers. So why I feel like pugs are better before the penalty timer implemented? Simple, players back then are better because they know that if they don't learn how to play as a team... no1 will play with them.

    Pre-timer the pugs were for good/pro player. Private queues were for new players who want to learn by teaming up with veteran players. Nowadays, it's vice versa. Full of idiots who don't listen/learn in pugs. Why ppl like pugs because it's fast and convenient than the private queues. Sure, it's nice to play with friends when they're all online... but what to do when they're not?

    In brief, the penalty timer is a form of penalty for good players like myself... because it's the afkers and idiots have to be forced to play in private queues... not US. Some1 posted early that devs should just remove the timer before implementing the no-pug-ignore-list. It's a great idea.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,456 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    matrix0 wrote: »
    And for those who say that why don't you make a team with your friends/fleet. Then I would say the samething back at you... why don't you play with friends/fleet if you don't want to encounter quitters in pugs?

    I do team with friends/fleetmates. On occasion, we need one or two others to fill the team roster, so we'll PUG those seats. Rarely we'll have someone who is an AFK'er or doesn't follow with the rest of the group. In my experience, they are the exception, not the rule, and we can live with the consequence of our decision in teaming with others in the public queues. Everyone has different playstyles. There is no rule that says others need to play the same way you do.
    In brief, the penalty timer is a form of penalty for good players like myself... because it's the afkers and idiots have to be forced to play in private queues... not US.

    No, it isn't a penalty for good players. It's a penalty for those who would bail on events whenever they felt like it for whatever reason they felt like, leaving the rest of the group holding the ball.
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  • matrix0matrix0 Member Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm not saying removing the timer is an ideal solution. I've posted that it's a temp solution for the current problems (afkers/idiots) until the devs can implement the no-grouping-with-ppl-in-ignore-list.

    Atm, afkers and idiots are more annoying than quitters. The current nukara pugs have no timer, and I've played lot. The pugs are easy to fail, but I don't see any quitters but idiots/afkers. The failing rate was high at the beginning since lot players didn't do the missions and especially warped in with no EV. It was like 50% chance.

    Now the ppl are getting better, and the rate is like 80-90% in my experience. I like the nukara pugs because we can quit and re-queue if afkers are there. So far, haven't seen much idiots in nukara pugs. Ppl seems motivated to learn to do it correctly because they all know that it requires full team and teamwork to complete. It was the same thing for estf ground. We can pretty much know within 10min if the team can make it or not. Hence, we don't see afkers. Space estf/romulan pugs are easier, and ppl know that some can be finished without a full team, resulting afkers.

    In brief, it's all about which one you dislike most: afkers, idiots, or quitters. I've been playing STO since 2010 and encounted a lot more afkers/idiots than quitters... maybe it's because I usually remind people of the rule at the beginning, so other players dont quit since they know that I know how to play.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,456 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    matrix0 wrote: »
    I've posted that it's a temp solution for the current problems (afkers/idiots) until the devs can implement the no-grouping-with-ppl-in-ignore-list.

    As a "temporary fix", you can make use of the existing tools to find teammates and start your own private queues. No new coding required. ;)
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    As a "temporary fix", you can make use of the existing tools to find teammates and start your own private queues. No new coding required. ;)

    Oh yes spend time trying to find people to do private games with and hope none of them are leechers to bad it does not work for people who have a short amount of play time each day. Public games are for people who have that limited play time can quickly get into games. But who cares about them right? Let them experience leechers ruining their limited play time and not fix the problem. The problem needs fixing.

    Edit: I would like if their was no penalty for leaving. I would rather deal with people leaving then leeching because someone does not get rewards for doing nothing and a new person can come in to help.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,456 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Oh yes spend time trying to find people to do private games with and hope none of them are leechers to bad it does not work for people who have a short amount of play time each day. Public games are for people who have that limited play time can quickly get into games.

    Socializing to find good teammates does work. It's your choice not to do it, regardless of what length of playtime you have.
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  • marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    Socializing to find good teammates does work. It's your choice not to do it, regardless of what length of playtime you have.

    When someone has a short amount of time to play they want to play not trying to find people to play with just quickly start a mission. I would never want to spend who knows how long to get a group together if I had a short amount of time to play. No it does not work if you only have enough time for a single mission in a specific day.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,456 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    When someone has a short amount of time to play they want to play not trying to find people to play with just quickly start a mission. I would never want to spend who knows how long to get a group together if I had a short amount of time to play. No it does not work if you only have enough time for a single mission in a specific day.

    Are you on any event channels? If yes, do you use them? If no, why don't you join? Is everyone in your public queue match AFK or leeching? If no, how long does it take to type "thanks for the match all" and offer friend invites? You know they aren't AFK'ers or leechers already. Worst that happens is they decline your invite. Best case is you have another player on your friend list who isn't a leecher. You don't need to stand in ESD or Q'Onos or wherever spamming public channels.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
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  • tekehdtekehd Member Posts: 2,032 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Had a leecher/afk'er last night who kept showing up in all my PvE's Annoying... was back to back too. Started with Colony invasion, then I noticed they were in my starbase blockade, next in Fleet Alert.... was annoying.... just sat there at spawn bidding on stuff and leaving with their free marks. Dead weight in colony too.... with the leecher we still did all the optionals.
  • marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    Are you on any event channels? If yes, do you use them? If no, why don't you join? Is everyone in your public queue match AFK or leeching? If no, how long does it take to type "thanks for the match all" and offer friend invites? You know they aren't AFK'ers or leechers already. Worst that happens is they decline your invite. Best case is you have another player on your friend list who isn't a leecher. You don't need to stand in ESD or Q'Onos or wherever spamming public channels.

    Does not help someone when they only have enough time to do 1 mission. You seem to think it takes a few seconds to get the games going each and every time it does not. Their are times I played a single mission and completed it before having to go and if I had spent any time trying to get a private game going would never ever of been able to get a mission completed. I know I am not only person that has had this. Fix the bloody problem so people who have such a short time wont ever have to deal with leechers ever.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,456 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Does not help someone when they only have enough time to do 1 mission. You seem to think it takes a few seconds to get the games going each and every time it does not. Their are times I played a single mission and completed it before having to go and if I had spent any time trying to get a private game going would never ever of been able to get a mission completed. I know I am not only person that has had this. Fix the bloody problem so people who have such a short time wont ever have to deal with leechers ever.

    Not talking about taking the time to form a private team at all.

    Example:

    You join an open public queue. You're auto-teamed with people that you didn't have to take the time to find. The other players are participating in the match and not leeching, so you know they aren't an AFK'er.

    Match ends. You don't have 20 seconds to type "Thanks all!" into the team chat and offer a couple of friend invites?
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    valoreah wrote: »
    Not talking about taking the time to form a private team at all.

    Example:

    You join an open public queue. You're auto-teamed with people that you didn't have to take the time to find. The other players are participating in the match and not leeching, so you know they aren't an AFK'er.

    Match ends. You don't have 20 seconds to type "Thanks all!" into the team chat and offer a couple of friend invites?

    Their was a few times I had to shut off the computer just as I collected the rewards and did not have the time say gg and send friend requests.

    I have also had some people in friend list that I had played multiple games with in random teams and that person once leeched a entire game at a later time. The only way to never ever encounter a leecher is to make sure a leecher gets no rewards at all.
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