OK how about this, the Khyzon doesnt have Sensor Analysis.
The Odyssey Science variant having SA was a mistake, one they appear to have learned because you are insane if you think a 5 forward weapons CLOAKED ship should have SA.
Still not following.
The Khyzon has a different and slightly better BOFF seating compared to the Kumari.
The Sci and Tac Odyssey have the same BOFF seating.
The Sci and Tac Scimitar have the same BOFF seating.
OK how about this, the Khyzon doesnt have Sensor Analysis.
The Odyssey Science variant having SA was a mistake, one they appear to have learned because you are insane if you think a 5 forward weapons CLOAKED ship should have SA.
For the exact same reason people dont like the Kumari variant that much, you have 5 consoles you already set for tactical consoles leaving just 5 more consoles ... except its a 3 console ship that means 2 ... except the Rommy and Borg Consoles that means ZERO.
And of course comes the question why fly anything other that the Sci version that is what happened with the Odyssey.
The Sci/Eng Oddy doesn't have 1 tac console compared to the Tac's 3. The Charal and Khyzon doesn't have 3 tac consoles compared to the Kumari's 5.
Two tac consoles is a big gap...a 60% gap, giving up a lot more damage than any other ship for some more survivability.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I am also looking forward to trolling Scimitars when they start to Thalaron pulse, by using KB abilities like Magnometric Overload, MACO beam, and TBR.
Some Beam Overload 3's for good measure...
My goodness, using Thalaron Pulse in PVP would be the equivalent of an in-game announcement with a highlight of pointing arrows, with a sign that says, "SHOOT ME" to the entire enemy team. And rest assured, there's always a cloaked vessel nearby willing to oblige.
I think, this ship requires a different gameplay perspective. It's definitely an alpha volley ship, and a serious one at that. This thing will easily replace the Hakashin Dreadnaught build as a tactical application of force, despite the slow firing lance type weapon.
Thalaron is NOT going to be powerful in PvP.
But with cloaked barrage and shields up, it'll be a monster ambush ship, and thats it's protection, more than science or engineering consoles. Otherwise, it's more of a glass cannon cruiser, alot like the Kumari was the glass cannon escort.
Least it doesn't suffer from third tac slot syndrom. Been waiting for this ship for a VERY long time, and I am not disappointed at all. As JamJamz said, "Dread defines her."
I AM THE HARBINGER OF HOPE!
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
I'm kinda sad to be honest, trying to fly anything besides the tac version really gimps you. I'm kinda sad it only has one hanger bay...maybe they will make a dedicated Romulan carrier some day.
the sci bversion at least you can toss a few extra shield capacity consoles on and make it even more tankier.
My goodness, using Thalaron Pulse in PVP would be the equivalent of an in-game announcement with a highlight of pointing arrows, with a sign that says, "SHOOT ME" to the entire enemy team. And rest assured, there's always a cloaked vessel nearby willing to oblige.
Quite right.
But a sign can be a distraction too. There might be a cloaked ship happy to oblige, but so can there be another ship ready and eager to kill them instead.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I will not call it OP. On paper it's a good ship well worth the money. I think the Scimitar version itself is a little too strong with 5 TAC consoles, a CMDR TAC BOFF, 5 Forward guns, a 7 turn rate, cannons and a fighter bay. It officially takes top cruiser spot in the game from the Bortas any way you look at it in the current era of play where tank is not so valued. Depending on how you choose to assign BOFFs it could also be called the biggest escort in the game?s history so far aside from the Jem Dread.
I think the Scimitar surpasses the other two versions so much so as to render them into simply big console containers you?ll pick from and toss. I can?t help but feel they should have stuck with 4 TAC consoles (and 3 for the other versions) and a lower turn rate to prevent that from happening. I dislike the bridge and the lighting some how in particular. I am kind of disappointed that it's not an actual 2 hanger bay carrier but this version actually fits the IP a little better.
I can see me buying the pack or simply the Scimitar itself later in the year. I can see everyone wanting a Scimitar for their ROM characters with the limitations of the current ship line up available. I want to see how things pan out though. I am having fun with a Recon Vesta and it lets me use SCI powers far better with a ton of TAC options to boot right now. Maybe we will get a FED battleship carrier by year end?
It's clearly not an escort, it is something new. The Scimitar is the first ship that truly feels like a Dreadnought, the FailX notwithstanding. Also an excellent blueprint for adding more ships like it, 5/3 with one hangar and turn between 7 and 9 is spot on for what I think a STO dreadnought should be.
Every variant of this is going to be viable with and without the consoles. My guess is pretty much everyone will run the Tulwar console at least, and one other to get the turn boost. Thalaron is cool but its pretty clearly a toy ability. The new dil mine consoles will get this beast turning quickly enough to bring DHCs to bear, and with LtCom universal, Gravity Well is a great option.
Personally I'd say the GalX needs to get a similar layout ASAP, probably swapping commander Tac for eng, and eng LT for Tac.
No disrespect but I doubt we will all see eye to eye on the ship and its fine to disagree. The bottom line is that I feel the game has turned into such a DPS race that the other two versions are devalued in bang for buck. I also feel that people get too caught up mounting special consoles rather than sticking to the bread and butter basics. You don't need all that.
I had such a love / hate relationship with the Galaxy X in the old days. It's one of the few ships I connected with in play style but it never felt like the dreadnought I wanted it to be. I personally doubt that it will ever see a real update in spite of rumors.
Large ships depend on engineering consoles and a little on sci to help them survive. Escorts compensate with high avoidance so they can avoid damage. 5 tac consoles leaves precious few to protect yourself with for a cruiser, I think that variant only has 2 eng consoles.
You have a 3 console set, even if people are "well I dont want to use all 3" you end up using 2 for the turn rate bonus, now 5 consoles are in tactical and you arent putting there so that leaves the other 5 console slots so thats 3 console slots but wait! Borg Console and Rommy Rep Console that means ONE slot.
ONE!
3 console set means ZERO console slots left.
I suspect this is why the sci and eng variants drop two tac consoles instead of just one. Like many owners of the Andorian escort, I fly one of the non-tac models: the boff layout is far better, losing one tac console doesn't hurt too badly, and the extra utility of another non-tac console is appreciated. I think Cryptic looked at their stats, saw the tac Andorian was under-represented, and decided that this time around, they wouldn't give people the option of trading 10% of their bang for an extra 30% in utility.
You want to put in a ship thats op fine, but this is too far. For several months players have been telling you the cruiser needed a dps upgrade. So what do you do? You do nothing! Then you bring out this Scimitar with 5 forward weapon slots? What the hell.
To add insult to injury escorts do not even get five forward weapon slots, and you have it a base turn rate higher then the Galaxy, the Bortas, Odyssey, and D'deridex class. To make matters worse this ship is supposed to be way bigger then any of those classes.
The Scimitar class starship needs to be nerfed before release. To a base turn rate of 4 to 5, especially given its size. It also needs its weapon slots reduced to four forward or four aft. If you want to have five forward weapon slots. Then add that to all tier 5 class star ships. Special consoles are one thing but this goes way beyond that. You are not even pretending to balance this ship.
After all the complaining about the Galaxy Dreadnought, and Galaxy class starships needing better turn rate, you do this?
You want to put in a ship thats op fine, but this is too far. For several months players have been telling you the cruiser needed a dps upgrade. So what do you do? You do nothing! Then you bring out this Scimitar with 5 forward weapon slots? What the hell.
To add insult to injury escorts do not even get five forward weapon slots, and you have it a base turn rate higher then the Galaxy, the Bortas, Odyssey, and D'deridex class. To make matters worse this ship is supposed to be way bigger then any of those classes.
The Scimitar class starship needs to be nerfed before release. To a base turn rate of 4 to 5, especially given its size. It also needs its weapon slots reduced to four forward or four aft. If you want to have five forward weapon slots. Then add that to all tier 5 class star ships. Special consoles are one thing but this goes way beyond that. You are not even pretending to balance this ship.
After all the complaining about the Galaxy Dreadnought, and Galaxy class starships needing better turn rate, you do this?
or we can simply wait and see how the ship actually performs before we cry OP.
and escorts have gotten 5 forward weapons already, were you not here for the Kumari? Everyone screamed OP when its stats were released and it turned out to be the glassiest of glass cannons.
How about we see it in action before we all hop on the OMGSFOP bandwagon.
To me, the Scimitar has the potential to be another floating zombie, with a cloak.
The only thing it's ever going to get that Thalaron Pulse off on is maybe a Borg Tactical Cube. That's it.
With a 12 second charge, any fool who tries to use it in PvP is going to wind up a big cloud of Thalaron vapor.
I think we can safely put this one down in the "not-buying" category. :rolleyes:
I'll be thinking of you, gaalom, tomorrow morning after maintenance as I purchase and pimp out my 3-pack of the Scimitar class on at least 2 Romulans and 1 Reman. :P
And we both know that here in the reality of PWE, Cryptic and our MMORPG called STO, that money speaks louder than forum rage.
Noones is really going to know how this ship performs untill its taken into action..
It's going to be vulnerable to like all Rom ships to having it power levels effected.. Polorans, energy siphons, Breen set effect, etc etc etc. If it had the power levels that fed and KDF ships had it would definatly be OP, but with its base 40 it's just not going to be able to walk and chew gum for more then only short periods of time. As has been noted and guessed at, cooldown on abilities will likely be fairly long.. A very dangerous ship, but not op.
As for comparison the the Gal-X.. none.. Gal-X really shouldn't be in the game.. canon wise its from an alternate reality that never was. Should never have been brought into the game.
The real hope is that the indroduction of this ships causes a small once over on the Oddy and the Bort. Niether of those two ships are what they should be... The Bort especially has turned into a one trick pony which is why so few have been purchased from the cash store...
Hopefully it'll cause a rethink of KDF battlecruisers. I run a fleet Tor'khat and love it but dealing with fed escorts is still a real pain in the waste ports.
Now, I'm honestly surprised why nobody has so far asked for the Scimitar to have a perfect cloak. Though in fairness, with all the consoles, it wouldn't be much of a 'cloak' considering that 99% of the time, you would still have to de-cloak in the first place because the 'firing while cloaked' console only works for a short time.
It wouldn't help you alpha except to not worry about sci-ships as much, but even if it did, people can still hear you when you buff up within 10 km, and I would bet money the cloak could still be disabled in all the same ways.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
My only gripe is that there isn't much room for error on that ship as consoles go. They gave us an incredibly tantalizing two and three set console bonus (by far one of the best I've seen in a long time, and those consoles in general are quite nice), and like f2p said, you use the zero point and assimilated module, you have only tac consoles left on the tac version.
However, I have as of yet to fly this thing (like everyone here), but I will say this:
In PvE, this ship will basically be god. It has incredible damage output, and your Thalaron will be useful (NPCs don't seem to know the meaning of dodge/don't go near the glowy pulse thingy, ffs they run into mines and TC torps all the time), in addition, it has enough survivability and hull that it can be fine against NPCs. Should you choose to NOT use any of the consoles? That's your call. But then you just have a weaker JHDC (weaker because it has only 1 hangar).
As utility goes, the Scimitar is fine, since the LtCmdr Uni gives you wonderful versatility. This ship actually rivals the Odyssey in how versatile it can be, and how... crazy you can play it. I know a lot of players will simply slot a tac in the LtCmdr, but imagine a sci. Imagine having a GW1 followed by a Thalaron? Or a TR or ES. The possibilities are endless. And the Ens Uni gives it an extra EPtS1 or HE1. Basically she's got a beautiful BOff layout.
As for consoles, the Falchion has a nice setup, good tank mixed with good damage and utility. My only gripe is no extra power to weapons, even though the extra power to shields is nice. The Scimitar is, to quote Picard, "a predator". Heavily tac oriented, large amounts of power shoved to weapons, and the rest to engines. The console setup is oriented completely to offense, high risk, high reward. The pinnacle of Romulan playstyle. You kill them in one pass, and if they hit you back, it'll hurt. The Tulwar is... well tbh I don't know what to think of it just yet. I don't really know how that much science can help a ship with that kind of BOff layout... I guess I'll just have to fly the bugger won't I
In PvP? Lol rofl squat blarg.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Probably either adds a flat amount of turn (not affecting base turn), or gives a % boost.
Plus, as it said in the article, it apparently also allows the bonus turn because of battle cloak to last for as long as the de-cloaking bonus. Meaning, it'll be able to turn really well for the time of the extra buff if you de-cloak to attack. Plus the normal bonuses of de-cloaking.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
i dont understand why this large ship has only 1 hangar bay.
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
i dont understand why this large ship has only 1 hangar bay.
I can only guess its because it has five weapons forward. To my limited knowledge, the V'Quv is the only non cash shop ship with more than one hangar bay, and it pays for that extra hangar in turn rate and speed.. Other than that, i cant imagine a reason..
Comments
Still not following.
The Khyzon has a different and slightly better BOFF seating compared to the Kumari.
The Sci and Tac Odyssey have the same BOFF seating.
The Sci and Tac Scimitar have the same BOFF seating.
Plus if it were it'd have to be given to everyone who already bought the legacy pack, which wouldn't net them any money on that front.
In the end it's far to much of a money maker to add to the pack, they want people to buy it on it's own.
The Sci/Eng Oddy doesn't have 1 tac console compared to the Tac's 3. The Charal and Khyzon doesn't have 3 tac consoles compared to the Kumari's 5.
Two tac consoles is a big gap...a 60% gap, giving up a lot more damage than any other ship for some more survivability.
Some Beam Overload 3's for good measure...
My goodness, using Thalaron Pulse in PVP would be the equivalent of an in-game announcement with a highlight of pointing arrows, with a sign that says, "SHOOT ME" to the entire enemy team. And rest assured, there's always a cloaked vessel nearby willing to oblige.
Second? Working out a tactical profile that make Thalaron pulse workable. I expect this to take a bit of work.
Third: Letting a borg gate or such eat the antilife fist of death, just because.
Thalaron is NOT going to be powerful in PvP.
But with cloaked barrage and shields up, it'll be a monster ambush ship, and thats it's protection, more than science or engineering consoles. Otherwise, it's more of a glass cannon cruiser, alot like the Kumari was the glass cannon escort.
Least it doesn't suffer from third tac slot syndrom. Been waiting for this ship for a VERY long time, and I am not disappointed at all. As JamJamz said, "Dread defines her."
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
Be a little more creative with the universal lt. com in sci you could make a interesting tac/sci build in a tulwar
and if you want to make a tough more tac centric galaxy x now you have chance for that too with the falchion
the sci bversion at least you can toss a few extra shield capacity consoles on and make it even more tankier.
Quite right.
But a sign can be a distraction too. There might be a cloaked ship happy to oblige, but so can there be another ship ready and eager to kill them instead.
I think the Scimitar surpasses the other two versions so much so as to render them into simply big console containers you?ll pick from and toss. I can?t help but feel they should have stuck with 4 TAC consoles (and 3 for the other versions) and a lower turn rate to prevent that from happening. I dislike the bridge and the lighting some how in particular. I am kind of disappointed that it's not an actual 2 hanger bay carrier but this version actually fits the IP a little better.
I can see me buying the pack or simply the Scimitar itself later in the year. I can see everyone wanting a Scimitar for their ROM characters with the limitations of the current ship line up available. I want to see how things pan out though. I am having fun with a Recon Vesta and it lets me use SCI powers far better with a ton of TAC options to boot right now. Maybe we will get a FED battleship carrier by year end?
Every variant of this is going to be viable with and without the consoles. My guess is pretty much everyone will run the Tulwar console at least, and one other to get the turn boost. Thalaron is cool but its pretty clearly a toy ability. The new dil mine consoles will get this beast turning quickly enough to bring DHCs to bear, and with LtCom universal, Gravity Well is a great option.
Personally I'd say the GalX needs to get a similar layout ASAP, probably swapping commander Tac for eng, and eng LT for Tac.
I had such a love / hate relationship with the Galaxy X in the old days. It's one of the few ships I connected with in play style but it never felt like the dreadnought I wanted it to be. I personally doubt that it will ever see a real update in spite of rumors.
What's the bonus amount? Does it add to the base turn? Or does it just a flat amount?
Many thanks!
Put a universal console in the 5th tac slot.
I suspect this is why the sci and eng variants drop two tac consoles instead of just one. Like many owners of the Andorian escort, I fly one of the non-tac models: the boff layout is far better, losing one tac console doesn't hurt too badly, and the extra utility of another non-tac console is appreciated. I think Cryptic looked at their stats, saw the tac Andorian was under-represented, and decided that this time around, they wouldn't give people the option of trading 10% of their bang for an extra 30% in utility.
To add insult to injury escorts do not even get five forward weapon slots, and you have it a base turn rate higher then the Galaxy, the Bortas, Odyssey, and D'deridex class. To make matters worse this ship is supposed to be way bigger then any of those classes.
The Scimitar class starship needs to be nerfed before release. To a base turn rate of 4 to 5, especially given its size. It also needs its weapon slots reduced to four forward or four aft. If you want to have five forward weapon slots. Then add that to all tier 5 class star ships. Special consoles are one thing but this goes way beyond that. You are not even pretending to balance this ship.
After all the complaining about the Galaxy Dreadnought, and Galaxy class starships needing better turn rate, you do this?
http://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg
or we can simply wait and see how the ship actually performs before we cry OP.
and escorts have gotten 5 forward weapons already, were you not here for the Kumari? Everyone screamed OP when its stats were released and it turned out to be the glassiest of glass cannons.
To me, the Scimitar has the potential to be another floating zombie, with a cloak.
The only thing it's ever going to get that Thalaron Pulse off on is maybe a Borg Tactical Cube. That's it.
With a 12 second charge, any fool who tries to use it in PvP is going to wind up a big cloud of Thalaron vapor.
I'll be thinking of you, gaalom, tomorrow morning after maintenance as I purchase and pimp out my 3-pack of the Scimitar class on at least 2 Romulans and 1 Reman. :P
And we both know that here in the reality of PWE, Cryptic and our MMORPG called STO, that money speaks louder than forum rage.
Keep on keepin on.
It's going to be vulnerable to like all Rom ships to having it power levels effected.. Polorans, energy siphons, Breen set effect, etc etc etc. If it had the power levels that fed and KDF ships had it would definatly be OP, but with its base 40 it's just not going to be able to walk and chew gum for more then only short periods of time. As has been noted and guessed at, cooldown on abilities will likely be fairly long.. A very dangerous ship, but not op.
As for comparison the the Gal-X.. none.. Gal-X really shouldn't be in the game.. canon wise its from an alternate reality that never was. Should never have been brought into the game.
The real hope is that the indroduction of this ships causes a small once over on the Oddy and the Bort. Niether of those two ships are what they should be... The Bort especially has turned into a one trick pony which is why so few have been purchased from the cash store...
Hopefully it'll cause a rethink of KDF battlecruisers. I run a fleet Tor'khat and love it but dealing with fed escorts is still a real pain in the waste ports.
I DON'T WANT THE PERFECT CLOAK ON THE SCIMITAR.
Now, I'm honestly surprised why nobody has so far asked for the Scimitar to have a perfect cloak. Though in fairness, with all the consoles, it wouldn't be much of a 'cloak' considering that 99% of the time, you would still have to de-cloak in the first place because the 'firing while cloaked' console only works for a short time.
It wouldn't help you alpha except to not worry about sci-ships as much, but even if it did, people can still hear you when you buff up within 10 km, and I would bet money the cloak could still be disabled in all the same ways.
However, I have as of yet to fly this thing (like everyone here), but I will say this:
In PvE, this ship will basically be god. It has incredible damage output, and your Thalaron will be useful (NPCs don't seem to know the meaning of dodge/don't go near the glowy pulse thingy, ffs they run into mines and TC torps all the time), in addition, it has enough survivability and hull that it can be fine against NPCs. Should you choose to NOT use any of the consoles? That's your call. But then you just have a weaker JHDC (weaker because it has only 1 hangar).
As utility goes, the Scimitar is fine, since the LtCmdr Uni gives you wonderful versatility. This ship actually rivals the Odyssey in how versatile it can be, and how... crazy you can play it. I know a lot of players will simply slot a tac in the LtCmdr, but imagine a sci. Imagine having a GW1 followed by a Thalaron? Or a TR or ES. The possibilities are endless. And the Ens Uni gives it an extra EPtS1 or HE1. Basically she's got a beautiful BOff layout.
As for consoles, the Falchion has a nice setup, good tank mixed with good damage and utility. My only gripe is no extra power to weapons, even though the extra power to shields is nice. The Scimitar is, to quote Picard, "a predator". Heavily tac oriented, large amounts of power shoved to weapons, and the rest to engines. The console setup is oriented completely to offense, high risk, high reward. The pinnacle of Romulan playstyle. You kill them in one pass, and if they hit you back, it'll hurt. The Tulwar is... well tbh I don't know what to think of it just yet. I don't really know how that much science can help a ship with that kind of BOff layout... I guess I'll just have to fly the bugger won't I
In PvP? Lol rofl squat blarg.
Plus, as it said in the article, it apparently also allows the bonus turn because of battle cloak to last for as long as the de-cloaking bonus. Meaning, it'll be able to turn really well for the time of the extra buff if you de-cloak to attack. Plus the normal bonuses of de-cloaking.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.