have you seen heterosexual displays of affection where they were accosted, and beaten? Please enlighten me on the last time you saw that.
You are correct on one thing though, A LOT of TRIBBLE people are miserable, and you wanna know a few reasons why? Because it is NOT a choice. They live in a society that denigrates, and ostracizes them.
Jolan'tru
I have seen many TRIBBLE PDA and never have I seen the participants accosted and/or beaten. I have never seen straight PDA participants accosted and/or beaten either. But i am sure it has happened to both parties.
Lots of gays are miserable and lots of straights are miserable. I live in a society that denigrates, and ostracizes me. I have had friends "shun" me because of my hobbies/pastimes/interests.
I had a terrible time growing up because I was considered a "loser". Have you ever been accosted and/or beaten because you played Magic: The Gathering or D&D? Have you ever been shunned because you were more into computing and Star Trek than sports?
Why is your shunning because of sexuality more important than my shunning because society thinks im a loser?
Just because you are not TRIBBLE, doesnt mean "society" hasnt treated you like garbage.
I have seen many TRIBBLE PDA and never have I seen the participants accosted and/or beaten. I have never seen straight PDA participants accosted and/or beaten either. But i am sure it has happened to both parties.
Lots of gays are miserable and lots of straights are miserable. I live in a society that denigrates, and ostracizes me. I have had friends "shun" me because of my hobbies/pastimes/interests.
I had a terrible time growing up because I was considered a "loser". Have you ever been accosted and/or beaten because you played Magic: The Gathering or D&D? Have you ever been shunned because you were more into computing and Star Trek than sports?
Why is your shunning because of sexuality more important than my shunning because society thinks im a loser?
Just because you are not TRIBBLE, doesnt mean "society" hasnt treated you like garbage.
1.) So you haven't ever seen either a straight person or a TRIBBLE person physically accosted for PDA... Have you ever seen any of this? Now, when was the last time there was anything where a straight persons was bashed.. because they were straight?
Has this ever happened to anyone because of playing Magic: The Gathering or D&D?
2.) You were shunned? You've had friends come to you, tell you that you were "disgusting", "a deviate" and "deserve to spend eternity burning in fire", then spit on you, shove you to the floor and kick you repeatedly? You've had that? You've had your mother tell you that because you play M:TG, or D&D, you are no longer her son, and as far as she is concerned you are dead? You've had that too, have you?
People are hateful, I know this. I know that gays aren't the only people that get harassed, bullied, or shunned.. but there are degrees, you know? Black people in the USA have a LONG history of being abused, oppressed, and yes, even killed for the color of their skin.. but, a black teen doesn't have to worry about coming home one day, saying to his parents, "Hey folks, I'm black.." and have them thrown out, or disowned for it. You see a difference there?
3.) You ask why being shunned for being TRIBBLE is worse than being shunned for being a "loser"? Because I've willing to bet you've never had to fear for your life for being a Star Trek fan. I'm willing to bet that, as stated above, you didn't have to worry about being thrown out of your house, because you like D&D. Being a "geek" is defined by what you like.. hobbies and past times. Being TRIBBLE is what we are. It's part of us. Like having blue eyes, or being 5'10. If you don't see a difference in those two things, I can't really help you.
Can I ask you how you feel being being a nerd/geek, has any equivalence to the abuse that the LGBT community has suffered? Do you really think they are even remotely similar?
By the way, as we are having this discussion on a Star Trek gaming forum, it should be apparent to you that I, too, am a geek... I, too, have played D&D (tabletop, LARP, and video games). I can assure you, the difference in "shunning" is vastly different.
Umm, just for the record, we all have the same basic civil rights as citizens of the United States as protected by the Constitution. What the Supreme Court did yesterday, in a nutshell, was grant homosexual couples the rights to some tax breaks that married heterosexuals have, which leads me to ask, was this really about equality or money?
Ultimately, what you or I believe is irrelevant. Only the Supreme Court is allowed to interpret the constitution. While the two rulings were a big victory for TRIBBLE rights, it is important to note that the Supreme Court never actually ruled that same sex couples have a constitutional right to be married. They never ruled that States violate same-sex couples' 14th amendment rights by denying them marriage licenses.
Take the proposition 8 case, which would have decided whether California's ban on same sex marriage violated the US Constitution. In a 5-4 ruling, the justices refused to rule on the case and instead returned it to the 9th Circuit Court on a technicality. One of those in the majority opinion was Justice Scalia, who ruled in favor of upholding DOMA and would probably rule in favor of proposition 8's defenders had they legal standing to argue the case.
That means that it is still quite possible that, should another similar case appear before the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court will overturn the 9th circuit court's rulings and find that same-sex marriage is not a constitutional right (by the same token, they could affirm that it is).
What we can say though is that as-of today, same-sex marriage is not a constitutional right in the United States.
The other case the Supreme Court ruled on was part of the Defense of Marriage Act. They ruled that it was unconstitutional for the federal government to interfere in the legal marriage of same-sex couples by denying them federal benefits and recognition. However, there were many separate issues at play in this case and it is possible that some of the justices ruled in favor of overturning DOMA because they felt it violated the States' tenth amendment right to define marriage without federal interference, not because it violated same-sex couple's 14th amendment rights.
One thing is clear. Same sex marriage is not yet a constitutionally recognized civil right in the United States and it is still an uphill battle. However, the winds of change will ensure that one day it will be.
I have seen many TRIBBLE PDA and never have I seen the participants accosted and/or beaten. I have never seen straight PDA participants accosted and/or beaten either. But i am sure it has happened to both parties.
Lots of gays are miserable and lots of straights are miserable. I live in a society that denigrates, and ostracizes me. I have had friends "shun" me because of my hobbies/pastimes/interests.
I had a terrible time growing up because I was considered a "loser". Have you ever been accosted and/or beaten because you played Magic: The Gathering or D&D? Have you ever been shunned because you were more into computing and Star Trek than sports?
Why is your shunning because of sexuality more important than my shunning because society thinks im a loser?
Just because you are not TRIBBLE, doesnt mean "society" hasnt treated you like garbage.
Just to be clear, the overwhelming majority of hate crimes committed due to sexual orientation are directed toward LGBT individuals, not heterosexuals. Nobody in the United States was ever tied to a fence and beaten to death by homosexuals because he was straight.
Just to be clear, the overwhelming majority of hate crimes committed due to sexual orientation are directed toward LGBT individuals, not heterosexuals. Nobody in the United States was ever tied to a fence and beaten to death by homosexuals because he was straight.
You missed the point of borisvodika when he asked:
Why is your shunning because of sexuality more important than my shunning because society thinks im a loser?
So why is one hate crime more valid than another hate crime?
Maybe because borisvodika's comparison to being "shunned" for playing M:TG, and D&D, was with being disowned by one's family, hated by and losing one's friends.. and yes, even murder because of their sexual orientation? I think it may have been you and boris that missed the point. Or do you agree with borisvodika, that being teased for card games, and video games is on par with being beaten to a pulp, strapped to fence and left to die in Wyoming?
And really? Being teased or even shunned for playing games is a "hate crime" now? Wow. Just wow...
You missed the point of borisvodika when he asked:
So why is one hate crime more valid than another hate crime?
You are begging the question. One is a hate crime; the other is not. A hate crime is a criminal act whereby a criminal purposefully targets their victims due to their membership in a protected group.
Protected groups vary, but are generally consist those who have a history in this country of having mass murder perpetrated or attempted against them. The reason for this is that there is a history of violence against these groups not aimed so much at individuals as designed to intimidate entire communities, such as the mass murder of homosexuals in New Orleans, the bombings of synagogues, and the wholesale slaughter of black children in the South by whites.
While I sympathize with anyone who has crimes committed against them, this country does not have a history of organized violence against people who play Dungeons and Dragons. There is no history of people burning D&D players alive or walking into D&D tournaments and opening fire.
Magic: The Gathering... hmmm, not there.
Dungeons & Dragons... hmmm, not there.
*ANY* video game, card game shunning? Nope...
Made to feel like a loser... Not there either.
Funny, that.
This is sort of "old" now, being from 2010, and it's just a portion... but I don't think I am unclear at all what constitutes a "hate crime" ... YOU on the other hand might be better served by taking your own advice, and do.. *some* research on what defines a hate crime.
The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 defines hate crime in 280003a as a "crime in which the defendant intentionally selects a victim, or in the case of property crime, the property that is the object of the crime" motivated by prejudice based on the "race, color, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender, disability, or sexual orientation" of the victim.
State hate crime statutes vary in the protection offered to victims. At least 10 states and the District of Columbia have enacted hate crime laws that cover gender identity and sexual orientation. At least 21 states have criminal legislation that addresses gender-identity motivated crimes. There appear to be at least 25 states that protect potential victims of sexual orientation. Additionally, at least 22 states address bias-motivated crimes, among other factors, contingent on disability.
If only Sean Kennedy were playing a video game, he may be alive today. But sadly, he was guilty of being TRIBBLE. He was beaten so badly, that his brain stem separated from his brain.
The best part? His murderer, who left the following voice mail after the incident:
"The f'ing fa$$ot... owes me $500 for breaking my g-damn hand on his teeth", served only a year in Prison.
So, while being "shunned" may have caused you some temporary discomfort, I think you'll live, unlike Sean Kennedy, Matthew Shepard, the 32 victims of the UpStairs nightclub firebombing, and the countless other LGBT lives lost to acts of violence or driven to suicide.
If only Sean Kennedy were playing a video game, he may be alive today. But sadly, he was guilty of being TRIBBLE. The best part? His murderer served only a year in Prison.
So, while being "shunned" may have caused you some temporary discomfort, I think you'll live, unlike Sean Kennedy, Matthew Shepard, the 32 victims of the UpStairs nightclub firebombing, and the countless other LGBT lives lost to acts of violence. ~ or having been pushed to suicide...
Agree completely, but feel you missed one tidbit..
In 1986 2 things happened that stick in my mind - I was in grade 5 - the shuttle blew up - that was a big thing.
My school Librarian was beaten to death in a local park bathroom where gays went to meet.
Now looking back I know he was TRIBBLE - but of course back in those days more than 25 years ago kids did not know as much as they do today.
Of course it was a pretty big thing for the school but because of the growing Aids crisis - not looked to negativiely apon.
To this day the offenders were never caught that I know off - so perhaps there will be some justice in the next life - who knows.
Thankfully we are much more tolerant today as this used to be a frequent occurance - and in fact in many Muslim countries today it is still a crime punishible by death(being TRIBBLE)
My personal opinion is that no-one chooses to be homosexual - it's a biological anomoly - yes it is a biological anomoly as being 100% homosexual contradicts the need for the sexes to reproduce and hence the end of the species - and all species primary fuction is to carry on itself through replication. There are only rare cases in nature of animals engaging in pure homosexual behavior - in most cases it happens when there is not a willing opposite sex partner availible.
However, none of this in our day and age warrents discrimination or attack for someones sexual orientation. I have had several TRIBBLE friends in my life and I always judged them by their actions towards me and others and not that they were TRIBBLE.
Star trek is like a dream that I am not sure can ever be realized as humans are far to judgemental and destructive and selfish to put aside all the things they would need to in order to form a fair and just society.
Thankfully we have progressed a lot in the last 25 years and incidents in North America like the one that took the life of my librarian don't occur as often. Sadly though we are still murdering each other for just as many other reasons as before. Perhaps some day that might change. Perhaps.
Maybe because borisvodika's comparison to being "shunned" for playing M:TG, and D&D, was with being disowned by one's family, hated by and losing one's friends.. and yes, even murder because of their sexual orientation? I think it may have been you and boris that missed the point. Or do you agree with borisvodika, that being teased for card games, and video games is on par with being beaten to a pulp, strapped to fence and left to die in Wyoming?
And really? Being teased or even shunned for playing games is a "hate crime" now? Wow. Just wow...
This is your problem, you disregard other peoples issues because you find them of less importance.
yes i was beat up and bullied daily because I was what society considers a loser. Yes I did loses numerous friends when they found out I go to Star Trek conventions in a science officer uniform (for example).
I suffered a hell of a lot more than just teasing because of who i was, but to you, because i am not TRIBBLE and had to deal with all this, doesnt matter.
Once again, like i stated earlier, you are picking and choosing examples that benefit your point while ignoring/belittling the same examples that happen to people daily who just happen to be not TRIBBLE. I am sure a lot of gays have commited suicide, and that totally sucks. It sucks just the same amount as the vast amount of nerds/geeks/losers that kill themselves because of the torment they go through.
You obviously know by now that i am not homophobic, this little debate we have going here is not in and of itself about homosexuality. It is about the fact that the torment and suffering that gays have had to go through is no more important than the suffering and torment many many other demographics have had to endure. When you crusade and your only point is "you are not TRIBBLE, you dont even know", im sorry, but its not valid.
What dont I know?
Being beat up because of who i am? I know that
Losing friends for who i am? I know that
Having my parents ashamed of me (because I didnt play sports or go to parties or do other activities that are socially accepted)? I know that
But because i am not TRIBBLE that doesnt matter. Ridiculous.
Any human being who has to suffer because of who they are or what they do is wrong period. There is no degree of wrong, there is just wrong.
This is your problem, you disregard other peoples issues because you find them of less importance.
yes i was beat up and bullied daily because I was what society considers a loser. Yes I did loses numerous friends when they found out I go to Star Trek conventions in a science officer uniform (for example).
I suffered a hell of a lot more than just teasing because of who i was, but to you, because i am not TRIBBLE and had to deal with all this, doesnt matter.
Once again, like i stated earlier, you are picking and choosing examples that benefit your point while ignoring/belittling the same examples that happen to people daily who just happen to be not TRIBBLE. I am sure a lot of gays have commited suicide, and that totally sucks. It sucks just the same amount as the vast amount of nerds/geeks/losers that kill themselves because of the torment they go through.
You obviously know by now that i am not homophobic, this little debate we have going here is not in and of itself about homosexuality. It is about the fact that the torment and suffering that gays have had to go through is no more important than the suffering and torment many many other demographics have had to endure. When you crusade and your only point is "you are not TRIBBLE, you dont even know", im sorry, but its not valid.
What dont I know?
Being beat up because of who i am? I know that
Losing friends for who i am? I know that
Having my parents ashamed of me (because I didnt play sports or go to parties or do other activities that are socially accepted)? I know that
But because i am not TRIBBLE that doesnt matter. Ridiculous.
Any human being who has to suffer because of who they are or what they do is wrong period. There is no degree of wrong, there is just wrong.
Well, it's nice to see you reply to comments, it's a shame you chose to skip the reply to yours that addresses some of your very points here, Can I relink some of them here?
You state that I "disregard other people's issues", but I explicitly said:
but there are degrees, you know? Black people in the USA have a LONG history of being abused, oppressed, and yes, even killed for the color of their skin.. but, a black teen doesn't have to worry about coming home one day, saying to his parents, "Hey folks, I'm black.." and have them thrown out, or disowned for it. You see a difference there?
Can you answer some of the questions I posed to you?
2.) You were shunned? You've had friends come to you, tell you that you were "disgusting", "a deviate" and "deserve to spend eternity burning in fire", then spit on you, shove you to the floor and kick you repeatedly? You've had that? You've had your mother tell you that because you play M:TG, or D&D, you are no longer her son, and as far as she is concerned you are dead? You've had that too, have you?
You asked me before why being shunned for being TRIBBLE is worse than being shunned for your experiences... I answered that before too...
3.) You ask why being shunned for being TRIBBLE is worse than being shunned for being a "loser"? Because I've willing to bet you've never had to fear for your life for being a Star Trek fan. I'm willing to bet that, as stated above, you didn't have to worry about being thrown out of your house, because you like D&D. Being a "geek" is defined by what you like.. hobbies and past times. Being TRIBBLE is what we are. It's part of us. Like having blue eyes, or being 5'10. If you don't see a difference in those two things, I can't really help you.
I'm NOT disregarding what you have gone through... at all. But I think comparing what you have gone with being thrown out of your house, and disowned by your family, or being murdered is a little... lacking.
You said your parents are/were ashamed of you. Are you welcome in their home? Even with the "shame" they have. If you were to try and call your family and wish them happy holidays, or send cards for Mother's Day and Father's day... would they speak with you on the phone? Would they keep the cards, or send them back?
This is YOUR problem, you have been bullied, and teased.. the same as EVERYONE ELSE is... and you are trying to say it is either the same thing, or at least on par with being KILLED for your hobbie... Gays are KILLED for WHO THEY LOVE. You said there are no degrees of wrong, just wrong... so, you think calling someone a "nerd" in the hallway in junior high, is the EXACT SAME THING as being tied to a fence, beaten *almost* to death, and left to die? Are you really claiming that?
My freshman year of HS a bunch of simpletons from my school committed a heinous crime. Fast forward fifteen years and things have not gotten any better. I understand where the anger and hate comes from but in order to get through this and become better we really have to come together. Dividing ourselves further will get us nowhere. Star Trek has always had the intention of bringing everyone together. I don't believe this thread/event is accomplishing that. Suicide is something that I wish on nobody, everybody should have someone to go to. Jimmy Doohan had a good story about that.
This is great and wonderful to see. Too bad the STO game itself wasn't more gender friendly. I recently purchased the "Beachcomber Outfit" on Risa because I thought wearing shorts on the beach would be more appropriate than my heavy leather uniform. Spent an hour on the Tailor screen trying to put on a pair of beach trunks before someone explained: You're a man... you can't wear the shorts. Umm, excuse me? I can't wear shorts because I have a male character without shapely, sexy legs to show? This does not sound diverse. This sounds blatantly sexist and discriminatory. I can see male toons not being allowed to wear a skirt or the Orion slave girl outfit but beach shorts? Really? When the devs stop creating gender specific content is the day we can truly celebrate LGBT diversity.
My freshman year of HS a bunch of simpletons from my school committed a heinous crime. Fast forward fifteen years and things have not gotten any better. I understand where the anger and hate comes from but in order to get through this and become better we really have to come together. Dividing ourselves further will get us nowhere. Star Trek has always had the intention of bringing everyone together. I don't believe this thread/event is accomplishing that. Suicide is something that I wish on nobody, everybody should have someone to go to. Jimmy Doohan had a good story about that.
Can someone shoot this sick puppy already and bury it's remains?
Including the TRIBBLE/TRIBBLE liberties twist into a blog about diversity was highly controversial to begin with but by now this disaster is nothing more than a corpse being poked with a stick.
Close the thing already.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Can someone shoot this sick puppy already and bury it's remains?
Including the TRIBBLE/TRIBBLE liberties twist into a blog about diversity was highly controversial to begin with but by now this disaster is nothing more than a corpse being poked with a stick.
Close the thing already.
I agree 100% - although I support my TRIBBLE and TRIBBLE friends to be what they are PEOPLE - human beings that deserve to live without fear and oppresion just like the rest of us
I hate when some - not all - homosexuals try to make a big politaical/moral/social issue everywhere they can to try to justify their lifestyle!!
You should not have to justify it - don't bother - be what you are.
Forcing the TRIBBLE issue into this diversity thing is just plain stupid - live long and prosper my TRIBBLE friends.
I agree 100% - although I support my TRIBBLE and TRIBBLE friends to be what they are PEOPLE - human beings that deserve to live without fear and oppresion just like the rest of us
I hate when some - not all - homosexuals try to make a big politaical/moral/social issue everywhere they can to try to justify their lifestyle!!
You should not have to justify it - don't bother - be what you are.
Forcing the TRIBBLE issue into this diversity thing is just plain stupid - live long and prosper my TRIBBLE friends.
bury this thread already.
I doubt you have any TRIBBLE friends. At least not any that respect themselves, that is.
I am definitely not trying to "justify" anything to anybody. I have no need to, because I couldn't care less what anybody else thinks, least of all somebody with an attitude like yours.
Having said that, I do agree. This thread has become a waste of time. For a while, there was a very nice discussion taking place among rational adults. That time has unfortunately ended. One can only argue the same points with a brick wall so many times.
I appreciate all the discussions with those who took the time to have serious discussions in an adult manner.
For the rest who are just too stubborn, ignorant or unwilling to see the handwriting on the wall, I feel sorry for you. I wish you the best of luck in your mountains, caves or wherever you decided to hole up in and fortify yourselves against the inevitable future.
Like I said before, I do believe you are entitled to your opinions, even if most of society finds them to be ignorant and archaic. But, I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't also eager to watch you get run over by the unstoppable freight train of Equality that's heading your way at breakneck speed.
The LGBT Community, and Society as a whole, will no longer be held back by the barbaric, hateful and oppressive views of an increasingly insignificant and irrelevant vocal minority.
I doubt you have any TRIBBLE friends. At least not any that respect themselves, that is.
That's exactly the attitude that rubs people the wrong way. Anyone who doesn't agree with the activism is ignorant, selfish or doesn't respect him/herself.
And people wonder why i loath special interest groups.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
That's exactly the attitude that rubs people the wrong way. Anyone who doesn't agree with the activism is ignorant, selfish or doesn't respect him/herself.
And people wonder why i loath special interest groups.
He is right about 1 thing - currently i do not have any TRIBBLE friends - now at 40 years old - I have long since past the time when I hung out in the same circles as they do.
I went to The Univ of Western Ontario in London, Ont, Canada - which as the biggest TRIBBLE community of any University in Canada.
I lived in Toronto which has the largest TRIBBLE community in the world after San Fransico.
But I am sick and tired of them forcing the issue so much - In toronto they have the 2nd biggest Pride parade in north America.
Why - why do gays have to blatetly show everyone that they are proud to be TRIBBLE? You don't have a Heterosexual parade that shuts the city down for a day with floats full of almost naked people with waterguns - showing how happy they are to be Heterosexual.
I mean it's got to the point of political correctness - nonsense.
back in the day that I did have TRIBBLE friends - they did not try to hide it - but they also did not try to FLAUNT IT!! that's what I admired about them!!
Definition of FLAUNT. intransitive verb. 1: to display or obtrude oneself to public notice <a great flaunting crowd
Sorry I didn't make it along to any of the events today, I was at the Edinburgh STO Meet Up. Did meet one of your fleet mates though. I'll try to come along tomorrow!
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
He is right about 1 thing - currently i do not have any TRIBBLE friends - now at 40 years old - I have long since past the time when I hung out in the same circles as they do.
I went to The Univ of Western Ontario in London, Ont, Canada - which as the biggest TRIBBLE community of any University in Canada.
I lived in Toronto which has the largest TRIBBLE community in the world after San Fransico.
But I am sick and tired of them forcing the issue so much - In toronto they have the 2nd biggest Pride parade in north America.
Why - why do gays have to blatetly show everyone that they are proud to be TRIBBLE? You don't have a Heterosexual parade that shuts the city down for a day with floats full of almost naked people with waterguns - showing how happy they are to be Heterosexual.
I mean it's got to the point of political correctness - nonsense.
back in the day that I did have TRIBBLE friends - they did not try to hide it - but they also did not try to FLAUNT IT!! that's what I admired about them!!
Definition of FLAUNT. intransitive verb. 1: to display or obtrude oneself to public notice <a great flaunting crowd
I doubt San Francisco has the largest TRIBBLE population in the world or even in the United States. There are less than 8 million people in the San Francisco metro area and only about 1 in 10 live within the city limits.
Considering that the world population, as a whole, probably has a pretty consistent rate of homosexuality, I would expect that cities like Shanghai, Istanbul, Karachi, Moscow, and Mumbai probably have the largest TRIBBLE populations in the world, though in some of those places homosexuality is a serious crime so they understandably do not march through the streets. Perhaps San Francisco and Toronto have some of the highest per-capita rates of openly TRIBBLE residents, but certainly not the largest TRIBBLE populations in the world considering how small those cities are in population compared to say, New York City, with 8 million in the city limits and over 20 million in the greater metropolitan area
And that fact should be a good indication of why there are TRIBBLE pride parades. There are huge populations of homosexuals living in fear and daily persecution around the world. The pride parades started as a march for civil rights, just like the freedom riders or the acts of Ghandi. They continue as a tradition, just like people continue to celebrate the Fourth of July or Thanksgiving.
Heterosexuals do not have a parade because nobody in the United States was ever thrown in prison or executed for being heterosexual whereas sodomy laws were only recently overturned and many countries continue to execute homosexuals.
However, if you really want a "heterosexual parade", you should start organizing one. Godspeed!
That's exactly the attitude that rubs people the wrong way. Anyone who doesn't agree with the activism is ignorant, selfish or doesn't respect him/herself.
And people wonder why i loath special interest groups.
If you truly "loath" all, "special interest groups" then you must be a very staid person with no passion, hobbies, or interests. I, for instance, am a member of the American Physical Society which promotes the special interest of physics-related education and research. Do you "loath" me? Do you "loath" promoting education and research in physics and astronomy?
I suspect the truth is that you just "loath" the "special interests" you dislike, such as ones which promote equal rights for homosexuals.
I doubt San Francisco has the largest TRIBBLE population in the world or even in the United States. There are less than 8 million people in the San Francisco metro area and only about 1 in 10 live within the city limits.
Considering that the world population, as a whole, probably has a pretty consistent rate of homosexuality, I would expect that cities like Shanghai, Istanbul, Karachi, Moscow, and Mumbai probably have the largest TRIBBLE populations in the world, though in some of those places homosexuality is a serious crime so they understandably do not march through the streets. Perhaps San Francisco and Toronto have some of the highest per-capita rates of openly TRIBBLE residents, but certainly not the largest TRIBBLE populations in the world considering how small those cities are in population compared to say, New York City, with 8 million in the city limits and over 20 million in the greater metropolitan area
And that fact should be a good indication of why there are TRIBBLE pride parades. There are huge populations of homosexuals living in fear and daily persecution around the world. The pride parades started as a march for civil rights, just like the freedom riders or the acts of Ghandi. They continue as a tradition, just like people continue to celebrate the Fourth of July or Thanksgiving.
Heterosexuals do not have a parade because nobody in the United States was ever thrown in prison or executed for being heterosexual whereas sodomy laws were only recently overturned and many countries continue to execute homosexuals.
However, if you really want a "heterosexual parade", you should start organizing one. Godspeed!
There is a HUGE difference between celebrating a birth of a Nation and celebrating - nowadays grossly FLAUNTING - the fact that you are homosexual - they have turned the parades into nothing but a large skin fest - i know - now in Toronto where I am - the stuff is going on - I will film the parade an post it here for others to view so they can make the determinations of my FLAUNTING accusation. And comparing a acts of Ghandi in here - you are going WAY overboard!
Definition of FLAUNT. intransitive verb. 1: to display or obtrude oneself to public notice <a great flaunting crowd.
I was about to start my own thread but I saw this and thought "eh, nows a better time";
Thank you Cryptic. I'm finding Risa to be so much fun and its exciting to see how I'm progressing with the corvette reputation, I'll hjave it in about three weeks, unless I buy more Zen Points
... these past two and a half years I've had things happen. I have been "let go" from my previous job. I've been let go from University because I have a, confrontation lets say, with my Dad last Christmas because I came out and announced my boyfriend (at 24). I am especially happy that in this time I've been able to encounter Stonewall Fleet AND have people in my main fleet (TenForward) support me
Thank you STO, though you havent done anything specifically for me, I appreciate that you have done so much since LoR to make me have fun and enjoy myself. I have been diagnosed with Discognative Behavioural Disorder, had it not been for this game God knows where I'd of been.
Thank you Cryptic, Thank you Devs and Thank you fellow STO players for making me feel a part of a community
THE ARTIST FORMALLY KNOWN AS TRYULIS Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
If you truly "loath" all, "special interest groups" then you must be a very staid person with no passion, hobbies, or interests. I, for instance, am a member of the American Physical Society which promotes the special interest of physics-related education and research. Do you "loath" me? Do you "loath" promoting education and research in physics and astronomy?
I suspect the truth is that you just "loath" the "special interests" you dislike, such as ones which promote equal rights for homosexuals.
I see a very sad puppy trying to discredit me and failing horribly in the process.
If you had bothered to read a few posts back then you would have seen the very reason why i loath special interest groups.
Phrases like "You must be ignorant, sad etc if you do not agree with me" is exactly why i do not like special interest groups.
I realize that it's psychology 101: "If you cannot counter an argument or opinion then proceed to make your opponent look dumb and throw in some personal info to reinforce your position".
From my position there is no need to flaunt personal information to defend my severe dislike for the activism from special interest groups.
So for further reference stop.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Comments
I have seen many TRIBBLE PDA and never have I seen the participants accosted and/or beaten. I have never seen straight PDA participants accosted and/or beaten either. But i am sure it has happened to both parties.
Lots of gays are miserable and lots of straights are miserable. I live in a society that denigrates, and ostracizes me. I have had friends "shun" me because of my hobbies/pastimes/interests.
I had a terrible time growing up because I was considered a "loser". Have you ever been accosted and/or beaten because you played Magic: The Gathering or D&D? Have you ever been shunned because you were more into computing and Star Trek than sports?
Why is your shunning because of sexuality more important than my shunning because society thinks im a loser?
Just because you are not TRIBBLE, doesnt mean "society" hasnt treated you like garbage.
1.) So you haven't ever seen either a straight person or a TRIBBLE person physically accosted for PDA... Have you ever seen any of this? Now, when was the last time there was anything where a straight persons was bashed.. because they were straight?
Has this ever happened to anyone because of playing Magic: The Gathering or D&D?
2.) You were shunned? You've had friends come to you, tell you that you were "disgusting", "a deviate" and "deserve to spend eternity burning in fire", then spit on you, shove you to the floor and kick you repeatedly? You've had that? You've had your mother tell you that because you play M:TG, or D&D, you are no longer her son, and as far as she is concerned you are dead? You've had that too, have you?
People are hateful, I know this. I know that gays aren't the only people that get harassed, bullied, or shunned.. but there are degrees, you know? Black people in the USA have a LONG history of being abused, oppressed, and yes, even killed for the color of their skin.. but, a black teen doesn't have to worry about coming home one day, saying to his parents, "Hey folks, I'm black.." and have them thrown out, or disowned for it. You see a difference there?
3.) You ask why being shunned for being TRIBBLE is worse than being shunned for being a "loser"? Because I've willing to bet you've never had to fear for your life for being a Star Trek fan. I'm willing to bet that, as stated above, you didn't have to worry about being thrown out of your house, because you like D&D. Being a "geek" is defined by what you like.. hobbies and past times. Being TRIBBLE is what we are. It's part of us. Like having blue eyes, or being 5'10. If you don't see a difference in those two things, I can't really help you.
Can I ask you how you feel being being a nerd/geek, has any equivalence to the abuse that the LGBT community has suffered? Do you really think they are even remotely similar?
By the way, as we are having this discussion on a Star Trek gaming forum, it should be apparent to you that I, too, am a geek... I, too, have played D&D (tabletop, LARP, and video games). I can assure you, the difference in "shunning" is vastly different.
Ultimately, what you or I believe is irrelevant. Only the Supreme Court is allowed to interpret the constitution. While the two rulings were a big victory for TRIBBLE rights, it is important to note that the Supreme Court never actually ruled that same sex couples have a constitutional right to be married. They never ruled that States violate same-sex couples' 14th amendment rights by denying them marriage licenses.
Take the proposition 8 case, which would have decided whether California's ban on same sex marriage violated the US Constitution. In a 5-4 ruling, the justices refused to rule on the case and instead returned it to the 9th Circuit Court on a technicality. One of those in the majority opinion was Justice Scalia, who ruled in favor of upholding DOMA and would probably rule in favor of proposition 8's defenders had they legal standing to argue the case.
That means that it is still quite possible that, should another similar case appear before the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court will overturn the 9th circuit court's rulings and find that same-sex marriage is not a constitutional right (by the same token, they could affirm that it is).
What we can say though is that as-of today, same-sex marriage is not a constitutional right in the United States.
The other case the Supreme Court ruled on was part of the Defense of Marriage Act. They ruled that it was unconstitutional for the federal government to interfere in the legal marriage of same-sex couples by denying them federal benefits and recognition. However, there were many separate issues at play in this case and it is possible that some of the justices ruled in favor of overturning DOMA because they felt it violated the States' tenth amendment right to define marriage without federal interference, not because it violated same-sex couple's 14th amendment rights.
One thing is clear. Same sex marriage is not yet a constitutionally recognized civil right in the United States and it is still an uphill battle. However, the winds of change will ensure that one day it will be.
Just to be clear, the overwhelming majority of hate crimes committed due to sexual orientation are directed toward LGBT individuals, not heterosexuals. Nobody in the United States was ever tied to a fence and beaten to death by homosexuals because he was straight.
You missed the point of borisvodika when he asked:
So why is one hate crime more valid than another hate crime?
Maybe because borisvodika's comparison to being "shunned" for playing M:TG, and D&D, was with being disowned by one's family, hated by and losing one's friends.. and yes, even murder because of their sexual orientation? I think it may have been you and boris that missed the point. Or do you agree with borisvodika, that being teased for card games, and video games is on par with being beaten to a pulp, strapped to fence and left to die in Wyoming?
And really? Being teased or even shunned for playing games is a "hate crime" now? Wow. Just wow...
You are begging the question. One is a hate crime; the other is not. A hate crime is a criminal act whereby a criminal purposefully targets their victims due to their membership in a protected group.
Protected groups vary, but are generally consist those who have a history in this country of having mass murder perpetrated or attempted against them. The reason for this is that there is a history of violence against these groups not aimed so much at individuals as designed to intimidate entire communities, such as the mass murder of homosexuals in New Orleans, the bombings of synagogues, and the wholesale slaughter of black children in the South by whites.
While I sympathize with anyone who has crimes committed against them, this country does not have a history of organized violence against people who play Dungeons and Dragons. There is no history of people burning D&D players alive or walking into D&D tournaments and opening fire.
You might want to do a little more research on what defines a hate crime.
Hmmm...
Yeah, not seeing anything there about video or card games.
Race... check!
Religion... check!
Sexual Orientation... check!
Ethnicity/National Origin... check!
Disability... check!
Magic: The Gathering... hmmm, not there.
Dungeons & Dragons... hmmm, not there.
*ANY* video game, card game shunning? Nope...
Made to feel like a loser... Not there either.
Funny, that.
This is sort of "old" now, being from 2010, and it's just a portion... but I don't think I am unclear at all what constitutes a "hate crime" ... YOU on the other hand might be better served by taking your own advice, and do.. *some* research on what defines a hate crime.
Jolan'tru
The best part? His murderer, who left the following voice mail after the incident:
"The f'ing fa$$ot... owes me $500 for breaking my g-damn hand on his teeth", served only a year in Prison.
So, while being "shunned" may have caused you some temporary discomfort, I think you'll live, unlike Sean Kennedy, Matthew Shepard, the 32 victims of the UpStairs nightclub firebombing, and the countless other LGBT lives lost to acts of violence or driven to suicide.
Agree completely, but feel you missed one tidbit..
Indeed I did, thank you for adding that.
My school Librarian was beaten to death in a local park bathroom where gays went to meet.
Now looking back I know he was TRIBBLE - but of course back in those days more than 25 years ago kids did not know as much as they do today.
Of course it was a pretty big thing for the school but because of the growing Aids crisis - not looked to negativiely apon.
To this day the offenders were never caught that I know off - so perhaps there will be some justice in the next life - who knows.
Thankfully we are much more tolerant today as this used to be a frequent occurance - and in fact in many Muslim countries today it is still a crime punishible by death(being TRIBBLE)
My personal opinion is that no-one chooses to be homosexual - it's a biological anomoly - yes it is a biological anomoly as being 100% homosexual contradicts the need for the sexes to reproduce and hence the end of the species - and all species primary fuction is to carry on itself through replication. There are only rare cases in nature of animals engaging in pure homosexual behavior - in most cases it happens when there is not a willing opposite sex partner availible.
However, none of this in our day and age warrents discrimination or attack for someones sexual orientation. I have had several TRIBBLE friends in my life and I always judged them by their actions towards me and others and not that they were TRIBBLE.
Star trek is like a dream that I am not sure can ever be realized as humans are far to judgemental and destructive and selfish to put aside all the things they would need to in order to form a fair and just society.
Thankfully we have progressed a lot in the last 25 years and incidents in North America like the one that took the life of my librarian don't occur as often. Sadly though we are still murdering each other for just as many other reasons as before. Perhaps some day that might change. Perhaps.
This is your problem, you disregard other peoples issues because you find them of less importance.
yes i was beat up and bullied daily because I was what society considers a loser. Yes I did loses numerous friends when they found out I go to Star Trek conventions in a science officer uniform (for example).
I suffered a hell of a lot more than just teasing because of who i was, but to you, because i am not TRIBBLE and had to deal with all this, doesnt matter.
Once again, like i stated earlier, you are picking and choosing examples that benefit your point while ignoring/belittling the same examples that happen to people daily who just happen to be not TRIBBLE. I am sure a lot of gays have commited suicide, and that totally sucks. It sucks just the same amount as the vast amount of nerds/geeks/losers that kill themselves because of the torment they go through.
You obviously know by now that i am not homophobic, this little debate we have going here is not in and of itself about homosexuality. It is about the fact that the torment and suffering that gays have had to go through is no more important than the suffering and torment many many other demographics have had to endure. When you crusade and your only point is "you are not TRIBBLE, you dont even know", im sorry, but its not valid.
What dont I know?
Being beat up because of who i am? I know that
Losing friends for who i am? I know that
Having my parents ashamed of me (because I didnt play sports or go to parties or do other activities that are socially accepted)? I know that
But because i am not TRIBBLE that doesnt matter. Ridiculous.
Any human being who has to suffer because of who they are or what they do is wrong period. There is no degree of wrong, there is just wrong.
Well, it's nice to see you reply to comments, it's a shame you chose to skip the reply to yours that addresses some of your very points here, Can I relink some of them here?
You state that I "disregard other people's issues", but I explicitly said:
But there is more to it than that...
Can you answer some of the questions I posed to you?
You asked me before why being shunned for being TRIBBLE is worse than being shunned for your experiences... I answered that before too...
I'm NOT disregarding what you have gone through... at all. But I think comparing what you have gone with being thrown out of your house, and disowned by your family, or being murdered is a little... lacking.
You said your parents are/were ashamed of you. Are you welcome in their home? Even with the "shame" they have. If you were to try and call your family and wish them happy holidays, or send cards for Mother's Day and Father's day... would they speak with you on the phone? Would they keep the cards, or send them back?
This is YOUR problem, you have been bullied, and teased.. the same as EVERYONE ELSE is... and you are trying to say it is either the same thing, or at least on par with being KILLED for your hobbie... Gays are KILLED for WHO THEY LOVE. You said there are no degrees of wrong, just wrong... so, you think calling someone a "nerd" in the hallway in junior high, is the EXACT SAME THING as being tied to a fence, beaten *almost* to death, and left to die? Are you really claiming that?
This is for you rickeyredshirt:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtDqsmbyo1M
Including the TRIBBLE/TRIBBLE liberties twist into a blog about diversity was highly controversial to begin with but by now this disaster is nothing more than a corpse being poked with a stick.
Close the thing already.
I agree 100% - although I support my TRIBBLE and TRIBBLE friends to be what they are PEOPLE - human beings that deserve to live without fear and oppresion just like the rest of us
I hate when some - not all - homosexuals try to make a big politaical/moral/social issue everywhere they can to try to justify their lifestyle!!
You should not have to justify it - don't bother - be what you are.
Forcing the TRIBBLE issue into this diversity thing is just plain stupid - live long and prosper my TRIBBLE friends.
bury this thread already.
I doubt you have any TRIBBLE friends. At least not any that respect themselves, that is.
I am definitely not trying to "justify" anything to anybody. I have no need to, because I couldn't care less what anybody else thinks, least of all somebody with an attitude like yours.
Having said that, I do agree. This thread has become a waste of time. For a while, there was a very nice discussion taking place among rational adults. That time has unfortunately ended. One can only argue the same points with a brick wall so many times.
I appreciate all the discussions with those who took the time to have serious discussions in an adult manner.
For the rest who are just too stubborn, ignorant or unwilling to see the handwriting on the wall, I feel sorry for you. I wish you the best of luck in your mountains, caves or wherever you decided to hole up in and fortify yourselves against the inevitable future.
Like I said before, I do believe you are entitled to your opinions, even if most of society finds them to be ignorant and archaic. But, I'd be lying if I said that I wasn't also eager to watch you get run over by the unstoppable freight train of Equality that's heading your way at breakneck speed.
The LGBT Community, and Society as a whole, will no longer be held back by the barbaric, hateful and oppressive views of an increasingly insignificant and irrelevant vocal minority.
Admiral Von Heller, out.
That's exactly the attitude that rubs people the wrong way. Anyone who doesn't agree with the activism is ignorant, selfish or doesn't respect him/herself.
And people wonder why i loath special interest groups.
He is right about 1 thing - currently i do not have any TRIBBLE friends - now at 40 years old - I have long since past the time when I hung out in the same circles as they do.
I went to The Univ of Western Ontario in London, Ont, Canada - which as the biggest TRIBBLE community of any University in Canada.
I lived in Toronto which has the largest TRIBBLE community in the world after San Fransico.
But I am sick and tired of them forcing the issue so much - In toronto they have the 2nd biggest Pride parade in north America.
Why - why do gays have to blatetly show everyone that they are proud to be TRIBBLE? You don't have a Heterosexual parade that shuts the city down for a day with floats full of almost naked people with waterguns - showing how happy they are to be Heterosexual.
I mean it's got to the point of political correctness - nonsense.
back in the day that I did have TRIBBLE friends - they did not try to hide it - but they also did not try to FLAUNT IT!! that's what I admired about them!!
Definition of FLAUNT. intransitive verb. 1: to display or obtrude oneself to public notice <a great flaunting crowd
I doubt San Francisco has the largest TRIBBLE population in the world or even in the United States. There are less than 8 million people in the San Francisco metro area and only about 1 in 10 live within the city limits.
Considering that the world population, as a whole, probably has a pretty consistent rate of homosexuality, I would expect that cities like Shanghai, Istanbul, Karachi, Moscow, and Mumbai probably have the largest TRIBBLE populations in the world, though in some of those places homosexuality is a serious crime so they understandably do not march through the streets. Perhaps San Francisco and Toronto have some of the highest per-capita rates of openly TRIBBLE residents, but certainly not the largest TRIBBLE populations in the world considering how small those cities are in population compared to say, New York City, with 8 million in the city limits and over 20 million in the greater metropolitan area
And that fact should be a good indication of why there are TRIBBLE pride parades. There are huge populations of homosexuals living in fear and daily persecution around the world. The pride parades started as a march for civil rights, just like the freedom riders or the acts of Ghandi. They continue as a tradition, just like people continue to celebrate the Fourth of July or Thanksgiving.
Heterosexuals do not have a parade because nobody in the United States was ever thrown in prison or executed for being heterosexual whereas sodomy laws were only recently overturned and many countries continue to execute homosexuals.
However, if you really want a "heterosexual parade", you should start organizing one. Godspeed!
If you truly "loath" all, "special interest groups" then you must be a very staid person with no passion, hobbies, or interests. I, for instance, am a member of the American Physical Society which promotes the special interest of physics-related education and research. Do you "loath" me? Do you "loath" promoting education and research in physics and astronomy?
I suspect the truth is that you just "loath" the "special interests" you dislike, such as ones which promote equal rights for homosexuals.
There is a HUGE difference between celebrating a birth of a Nation and celebrating - nowadays grossly FLAUNTING - the fact that you are homosexual - they have turned the parades into nothing but a large skin fest - i know - now in Toronto where I am - the stuff is going on - I will film the parade an post it here for others to view so they can make the determinations of my FLAUNTING accusation. And comparing a acts of Ghandi in here - you are going WAY overboard!
Definition of FLAUNT. intransitive verb. 1: to display or obtrude oneself to public notice <a great flaunting crowd.
Thank you Cryptic. I'm finding Risa to be so much fun and its exciting to see how I'm progressing with the corvette reputation, I'll hjave it in about three weeks, unless I buy more Zen Points
... these past two and a half years I've had things happen. I have been "let go" from my previous job. I've been let go from University because I have a, confrontation lets say, with my Dad last Christmas because I came out and announced my boyfriend (at 24). I am especially happy that in this time I've been able to encounter Stonewall Fleet AND have people in my main fleet (TenForward) support me
Thank you STO, though you havent done anything specifically for me, I appreciate that you have done so much since LoR to make me have fun and enjoy myself. I have been diagnosed with Discognative Behavioural Disorder, had it not been for this game God knows where I'd of been.
Thank you Cryptic, Thank you Devs and Thank you fellow STO players for making me feel a part of a community
Vice Admiral Dir Sonatra, I.R.W. Kholairlha, Scimitar Class Warbird
Vice Admiral Oshin S'ree, USS Steamrunner, Steamrunner Class
TEN FORWARD FLEET
I see a very sad puppy trying to discredit me and failing horribly in the process.
If you had bothered to read a few posts back then you would have seen the very reason why i loath special interest groups.
Phrases like "You must be ignorant, sad etc if you do not agree with me" is exactly why i do not like special interest groups.
I realize that it's psychology 101: "If you cannot counter an argument or opinion then proceed to make your opponent look dumb and throw in some personal info to reinforce your position".
From my position there is no need to flaunt personal information to defend my severe dislike for the activism from special interest groups.
So for further reference stop.