I warp in, I see a sci ship, and I awe. its like a unicorn, you rarely see one. a kumari two rommie ships and my vesta.
now the dps was low. I mean low. the highest dps of my teammates was ofc the kumari with a wopping 3k dps (srsly, that ship is OP as hell, it clearly needs a nerf), the rest were 1,4k-1,8k.
well brilliant, atleast I can have some fun carrying the team, I always liked to do that (no jk). now the problem is, that they are clearly unaware of the underlying mechanics. one blew a gen early (meaning I got it down for him to 10, and while I got another one down to 10, he blew it, leaving another one at 50). this shouldnt be a problem. HOWEVER, brilliant players engage the spheres. why? because you can hold them with grav well before they reach... owait, you cant, since EPTE change. this would actually do the opposite, and make them FASTER
no matter, I threw everything at the transformer, and at the last second, we (as in 3 of us, because 2 were busy "holding up" the spheres). now going to the next transformer, after a long bit of sphere hunting, I got two down to 10, and ofc someone blows early, while we have one at 50 and one at 100. no probs, we gonna solve....
server not responding. well thats what you get. I clicked safe log in on the loading screen, but it wasnt my day, and I got a 1 hour ban (its rly random, whether you get a ban or not for server instability).
From the start I knew it was not going to be a good run. 2 tactical character with multiple injuries.
The 1 of them ran forward starting the optional objective countdown wile their was 1 person still loading. Well the 2 tactical character with injuries died withing second of Borg seeing them.
After that I left because I was not going to play a mission with a doomed optional and 2 tactical characters with multiple injuries and cant survive more then a few seconds of contact with the Borg.
For some reason everytime I play Infected the Conduit Elite no one uses the 10% rule, they just go after generators till 0%. Every single time I play now, no one apparently applies it.
It was never this bad before.
due to the overwhelming amount of new players from lor
due to the overwhelming amount of new players from lor
or due to the fact that most groups will just throw out so much damage that it doesn't matter. A lot of PuGs have one or two generators still at 50%+ when the first one blows, but still manage to get the optional (even the the EPTE changes), because you can burn those generators down within a few seconds with 3-4 peope focusing them.
It only gets problematic/close when someone goes for a generator before the cube is down.
or due to the fact that most groups will just throw out so much damage that it doesn't matter. A lot of PuGs have one or two generators still at 50%+ when the first one blows, but still manage to get the optional (even the the EPTE changes), because you can burn those generators down within a few seconds with 3-4 peope focusing them.
It only gets problematic/close when someone goes for a generator before the cube is down.
power creep. now ppl are usually above 1 even 2k DPS O.o so they can handle such things
had a great pug yesterday tho:
no optional lost or anything, but we were in there 5 mins longer than we should have, because of... guess. no its not an early gen blow. yes, your second guess is right, an idiot with TBR.
both times the spheres came out of the gate, he instantly went for them, and TBR'd them all over the place, while aggroing the cube as well. so basically we had to catch the damned spheres one buy one, from every little bit of the map, and both times, he mananged to get a sphere under the starbase, so it took a one minute manouver to get a position, where you could shoot at them...
What seems to be a running gag now in the two, new Nukara Ground queues is to push buttons and start the encounter before the whole team is assembled.
That is a thorn in my side for the last few days.
Maybe it's because these missions have only recently been added to the PVE queue, but too many players enter without a clue how to do the missions.
Some even show up without EVA suit or when they enter with suit they forget to activate it.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Back in pre-LOR Nukara hards were enjoyable for me. Since they were only accessed on Nukara mostly Nukara veterans did them so you had a squad of 6+ people breeze through them. Now I think the easy way of adding them into the queue list is disastrous.
Just to be on topic, my worst STF experience? Any time I tried to do Vault Shuttle Event. It's the only available STF that I have never completed, which bugs me.
Technically, Vault Shuttle Event is a PVE event, not a Special Task Force (Borg only).
But I hear ya. Vault Shuttle is one of the hardest missions to complete, if you have a PUG. If people have no clue how to do the mission, you can fail even the first room simply by running out of time.
Although you can't force people on your team to "be better", you can help by having an efficient build for taking out enemies quickly. I recommend equipping a Dual Beam Bank and having Beam Overload ready. This often has the effect of one-shot killing enemies, and dealing great damage to emplacements (turrets and tractor emitters).
Tractor Beam ability is a MUST. If you don't use it, you will never be able to hold your target in one place to blast him with your Beam Overload.
The Breen Cluster Torpedo is another good weapon to use, since it can effectively destroy a single target in one shot. BoPs are often killed in one shot, due to a Beam Overload and follow-up Breen Cluster Torpedo into the hull. Otherwise, I suppose a quantum torpedo launcher or a Kinetic Cutting Beam would do nicely in this spot - although the shields on your target will have to be down, in order to deal significant damage.
Weapons Battery, joined with a "Maintenance Engineer" Duty Officer, will do wonders for your damage with Beam Overload (and even better, the Breen torpedo).
I hope this helps. Although this doesn't help your team, it will help you achieve the objectives quicker, like clearing out turrets and BoPs around the generators in the second room. No sense flying around if you have a lousy shuttle build; a knowledgeable shuttle pilot with a good shuttle build can sometimes turn around the course of a mission.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Back in pre-LOR Nukara hards were enjoyable for me. Since they were only accessed on Nukara mostly Nukara veterans did them so you had a squad of 6+ people breeze through them. Now I think the easy way of adding them into the queue list is disastrous.
Just to be on topic, my worst STF experience? Any time I tried to do Vault Shuttle Event. It's the only available STF that I have never completed, which bugs me.
It's convenient to get teams together, but the quality of said teams is worrisome.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I just call any queue an STF, it may be intended to be used for Borg-only but since the full name is Special Task Force it can be any force that does a special task.
I'll admit, it has been a while since I have done that and my fighter is a lot better now but every time I'm thinking of doing it I remember all the times I have done it and failed. Most of the time we would get to the final room, reactor would fire on Obisek, Obisek would cloak, repair and that would be repeated until we ran out of time.
To be fair this, particularly the second point, could just as easily be a result of queuing from space as it could be stupidity.
You beam in into a sheltered environment and putting on an EVA + activating it takes less than 5 seconds. Providing they played through the episodes, especially "Boldly they rode" everyone should be intimately familiar with the EVA suit when they start playing STF.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
We all beam in
Some moron states "he'll take top left"
No-one else replies (and I don't care about this 'location' businss anyway)
He calls us an "idiot team" and ragequits.
All this before the mission had even started.
:rolleyes:
*is amazed*
I have never heard of such a quick ragequit. And on SBI! Most ground ragequits happen in IGN and IGE!
Also, I am proud to say that my ship has a fail setup and I have not instilled any ragequits!
Two people were hugging the CE and kept eating the shards. This guy who I caplock about, died dozens of times, he's the only one of my team that did repair tho...
Two people were hugging the CE and kept eating the shards. This guy who I caplock about, died dozens of times, he's the only one of my team that did repair tho...
Reminds me of a CE I ran recently where the entity managed to get around 200-250 of the recrystalization buff, giving it a 400-500% damage bonus. The second you got in range/decloaked you would be at 50% hull. Everyone left that CE with broken ships.
In the end I actually flew close to the damn thing on purpose in hopes that my ship explosion would cause some damage since I didn't have much time to do so with my weapons.
Reminds me of a CE I ran recently where the entity managed to get around 200-250 of the recrystalization buff, giving it a 400-500% damage bonus.
That's why I never enter the CE without a Tachyon Beam anymore. Just a single player with TB or using a single, rare Delta Flyer Hangar can keep the stacks close to 0, even if there are idiots around who deliberately try to sabotage.
its not the worst again, not even a failed opt, but I dont rly have better ones, but as many read these to learn what not to do, might be helpful somehow O.o
so the game goes fairly well with the first transformer gun. I fixed an issue with autotargeting my pets, I am quite happy. the spheres die a bit slow tho. none the less, last dies, I am kinda low on health, as for the last 2 mins the gate was trying to kill me, while I hunted two spheres clipped into it. I see, that a star cruiser is already pounding on one of the gens, while the cube is up. fortunately I knew we had time, as he was shooting rainbow DBBs, and no good comes out of that from a star cruiser (srsly, you rarely see those)
so I decide, to basically bounce the cube's heavy torps back at him, to help the thing go down faster. the problem is, as I mentioned, I was low on health to begin with, from a two minute fight with the gate. well, no other option, I go in, fortunately the cube crits, its down to low pct, and I can hit ramming speed, before the plasma burn kills me, bringing it down with me. at this point, star cruiser finishes, I spawn, and go back, start working on the rest.
the team had decent dps (well, all had 3k dps in the end, so not decent, but I was lucky to not have any more baddies ), and by the time I got there, only 1 gen was 100, and the other 50. someone got a grav well out, I doubt it helped, but in the end, we did manage to keep the opt, and win the game.
I wrote on the guy after the match, but he didnt respond, so I will never know if he was a troll, or just bad
on the plus side, I got a rly good parse for my aux dhc vesta
Two people were hugging the CE and kept eating the shards. This guy who I caplock about, died dozens of times, he's the only one of my team that did repair tho...
That's just pathetic, why people don't stock up on repair parts is beyond me.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
That's just pathetic, why people don't stock up on repair parts is beyond me.
Sometimes it happens by accident. If a player is use to playing ground missions, such as myself, the majority of the items she or he will have are regens. I have been pulled into elite space stfs spontaneously. I do not always pay attention. When I do enter an elite space mission unprepared, I know well enough to keep my distance from enemy npcs. If you know how an stf mission works, you can work through them with light resources. Its just a matter of experience.
I always tend to maintain a good stock of 20 of each repair part, you never know when you need them.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
That's just pathetic, why people don't stock up on repair parts is beyond me.
They are called instant admirals. They flew through the ranks and made admiral in about a week. Very common. They generally have no idea how to play the game and no interest in learning. :eek:
They are called instant admirals. They flew through the ranks and made admiral in about a week. Very common. They generally have no idea how to play the game and no interest in learning. :eek:
As long as there is a core of professional players, there is still hope, the insta admirals need to realize that the more injuries you have, the more debuffs you have, in effect by not stocking up on repair parts, they are nerfing themselves:eek:
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Oddly, I saw (and laughed at) a guy who had 20+ injuries on his ship, then later saw his ground toon on New Romulus - which also had piles of injuries!
W-T-F? Don't people notice all those de-buff icons?
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
Just finished a pugmade from PublicEliteSTF. Worst pugmade I have ever been in.
First off, here's the team.
Me: Fleet Nova, built for CC/Partigen damage
Odyssey
Unknown Klingon cruiser (Bortas? Peghqu?)
Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer
Unknown ship
The first unknown ship quits or disconnects permanently, about thirty seconds into the match.
The rest of us don't have sufficient damage output to take out the cubes fast. MRRMLL doesn't work, and after 20 minutes of fighting, we couldn't hold Kang together, despite my chat box calls of "Heals to Kang!" and "Tac team to Kang!" Kang blows up.
None of them say a word, as they leave the map.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Joined ISE half way through.. Knew it was gonna be hard as Nanite spheres everywhere, optional had gone & team members had, well, I've never seen so many Damage icons on ships!!
Headed out to the left, 3 gens down, helped clear up the spheres & was about to target and blow the 4th gen when I noticed the tell tale number rise over the cube on the right hand side!!
Yep, one of the muppets had started on the other side... Completely ignored local & team yells to stop.. then he switched targets & blew 2 of the gens on the other side!!!
Needless to say, Nanites were everywhere again (left side still hadn't been cleared at this point)!!!
I opted to take the leaver penalty at that point.. some people, you just can't help!!
Still debating between fleet and c-store version for the nova. I love the design though and i fly the regular one on tribble.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I've done countless STF's in mine, primarily utilsing crowd control and debuffs (but that Lt-cmdr boff slot certainly helps when you do go on the offensive), and never once have I felt that I was a burden to the team. It's suprising just how good that little ship can be.
no offense, but I just cant not say this:
I think this very topic is the prime example of what happens, when someone does not feel like a burden to a team
Comments
I warp in, I see a sci ship, and I awe. its like a unicorn, you rarely see one. a kumari two rommie ships and my vesta.
now the dps was low. I mean low. the highest dps of my teammates was ofc the kumari with a wopping 3k dps (srsly, that ship is OP as hell, it clearly needs a nerf), the rest were 1,4k-1,8k.
well brilliant, atleast I can have some fun carrying the team, I always liked to do that (no jk). now the problem is, that they are clearly unaware of the underlying mechanics. one blew a gen early (meaning I got it down for him to 10, and while I got another one down to 10, he blew it, leaving another one at 50). this shouldnt be a problem. HOWEVER, brilliant players engage the spheres. why? because you can hold them with grav well before they reach... owait, you cant, since EPTE change. this would actually do the opposite, and make them FASTER
no matter, I threw everything at the transformer, and at the last second, we (as in 3 of us, because 2 were busy "holding up" the spheres). now going to the next transformer, after a long bit of sphere hunting, I got two down to 10, and ofc someone blows early, while we have one at 50 and one at 100. no probs, we gonna solve....
server not responding. well thats what you get. I clicked safe log in on the loading screen, but it wasnt my day, and I got a 1 hour ban (its rly random, whether you get a ban or not for server instability).
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
From the start I knew it was not going to be a good run. 2 tactical character with multiple injuries.
The 1 of them ran forward starting the optional objective countdown wile their was 1 person still loading. Well the 2 tactical character with injuries died withing second of Borg seeing them.
After that I left because I was not going to play a mission with a doomed optional and 2 tactical characters with multiple injuries and cant survive more then a few seconds of contact with the Borg.
due to the overwhelming amount of new players from lor
or due to the fact that most groups will just throw out so much damage that it doesn't matter. A lot of PuGs have one or two generators still at 50%+ when the first one blows, but still manage to get the optional (even the the EPTE changes), because you can burn those generators down within a few seconds with 3-4 peope focusing them.
It only gets problematic/close when someone goes for a generator before the cube is down.
power creep. now ppl are usually above 1 even 2k DPS O.o so they can handle such things
had a great pug yesterday tho:
no optional lost or anything, but we were in there 5 mins longer than we should have, because of... guess. no its not an early gen blow. yes, your second guess is right, an idiot with TBR.
both times the spheres came out of the gate, he instantly went for them, and TBR'd them all over the place, while aggroing the cube as well. so basically we had to catch the damned spheres one buy one, from every little bit of the map, and both times, he mananged to get a sphere under the starbase, so it took a one minute manouver to get a position, where you could shoot at them...
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
That is a thorn in my side for the last few days.
Maybe it's because these missions have only recently been added to the PVE queue, but too many players enter without a clue how to do the missions.
Some even show up without EVA suit or when they enter with suit they forget to activate it.
Just to be on topic, my worst STF experience? Any time I tried to do Vault Shuttle Event. It's the only available STF that I have never completed, which bugs me.
But I hear ya. Vault Shuttle is one of the hardest missions to complete, if you have a PUG. If people have no clue how to do the mission, you can fail even the first room simply by running out of time.
Although you can't force people on your team to "be better", you can help by having an efficient build for taking out enemies quickly. I recommend equipping a Dual Beam Bank and having Beam Overload ready. This often has the effect of one-shot killing enemies, and dealing great damage to emplacements (turrets and tractor emitters).
Tractor Beam ability is a MUST. If you don't use it, you will never be able to hold your target in one place to blast him with your Beam Overload.
The Breen Cluster Torpedo is another good weapon to use, since it can effectively destroy a single target in one shot. BoPs are often killed in one shot, due to a Beam Overload and follow-up Breen Cluster Torpedo into the hull. Otherwise, I suppose a quantum torpedo launcher or a Kinetic Cutting Beam would do nicely in this spot - although the shields on your target will have to be down, in order to deal significant damage.
Weapons Battery, joined with a "Maintenance Engineer" Duty Officer, will do wonders for your damage with Beam Overload (and even better, the Breen torpedo).
I hope this helps. Although this doesn't help your team, it will help you achieve the objectives quicker, like clearing out turrets and BoPs around the generators in the second room. No sense flying around if you have a lousy shuttle build; a knowledgeable shuttle pilot with a good shuttle build can sometimes turn around the course of a mission.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
It's convenient to get teams together, but the quality of said teams is worrisome.
I just call any queue an STF, it may be intended to be used for Borg-only but since the full name is Special Task Force it can be any force that does a special task.
I'll admit, it has been a while since I have done that and my fighter is a lot better now but every time I'm thinking of doing it I remember all the times I have done it and failed. Most of the time we would get to the final room, reactor would fire on Obisek, Obisek would cloak, repair and that would be repeated until we ran out of time.
To be fair this, particularly the second point, could just as easily be a result of queuing from space as it could be stupidity.
You beam in into a sheltered environment and putting on an EVA + activating it takes less than 5 seconds. Providing they played through the episodes, especially "Boldly they rode" everyone should be intimately familiar with the EVA suit when they start playing STF.
*is amazed*
I have never heard of such a quick ragequit. And on SBI! Most ground ragequits happen in IGN and IGE!
Also, I am proud to say that my ship has a fail setup and I have not instilled any ragequits!
Two people were hugging the CE and kept eating the shards. This guy who I caplock about, died dozens of times, he's the only one of my team that did repair tho...
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5494/axqx.jpg
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
Reminds me of a CE I ran recently where the entity managed to get around 200-250 of the recrystalization buff, giving it a 400-500% damage bonus. The second you got in range/decloaked you would be at 50% hull. Everyone left that CE with broken ships.
In the end I actually flew close to the damn thing on purpose in hopes that my ship explosion would cause some damage since I didn't have much time to do so with my weapons.
Someone decided to blow up a generator before the others were even close to half, then the %^$@# decided to go off to the side and watch.
Then another person refused to even try to help, deciding instead to say, 'you guys are gonna fail, it's pointless to even try'.
I quit when it seemed the other two's strategy was 'die valiantly.'
Funny thing was, the first two guys were Roms and the latter two were feds.
That's why I never enter the CE without a Tachyon Beam anymore. Just a single player with TB or using a single, rare Delta Flyer Hangar can keep the stacks close to 0, even if there are idiots around who deliberately try to sabotage.
its not the worst again, not even a failed opt, but I dont rly have better ones, but as many read these to learn what not to do, might be helpful somehow O.o
so the game goes fairly well with the first transformer gun. I fixed an issue with autotargeting my pets, I am quite happy. the spheres die a bit slow tho. none the less, last dies, I am kinda low on health, as for the last 2 mins the gate was trying to kill me, while I hunted two spheres clipped into it. I see, that a star cruiser is already pounding on one of the gens, while the cube is up. fortunately I knew we had time, as he was shooting rainbow DBBs, and no good comes out of that from a star cruiser (srsly, you rarely see those)
so I decide, to basically bounce the cube's heavy torps back at him, to help the thing go down faster. the problem is, as I mentioned, I was low on health to begin with, from a two minute fight with the gate. well, no other option, I go in, fortunately the cube crits, its down to low pct, and I can hit ramming speed, before the plasma burn kills me, bringing it down with me. at this point, star cruiser finishes, I spawn, and go back, start working on the rest.
the team had decent dps (well, all had 3k dps in the end, so not decent, but I was lucky to not have any more baddies
I wrote on the guy after the match, but he didnt respond, so I will never know if he was a troll, or just bad
on the plus side, I got a rly good parse for my aux dhc vesta
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2
That's just pathetic, why people don't stock up on repair parts is beyond me.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
They are called instant admirals. They flew through the ranks and made admiral in about a week. Very common. They generally have no idea how to play the game and no interest in learning. :eek:
As long as there is a core of professional players, there is still hope, the insta admirals need to realize that the more injuries you have, the more debuffs you have, in effect by not stocking up on repair parts, they are nerfing themselves:eek:
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
W-T-F? Don't people notice all those de-buff icons?
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
First off, here's the team.
Me: Fleet Nova, built for CC/Partigen damage
Odyssey
Unknown Klingon cruiser (Bortas? Peghqu?)
Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer
Unknown ship
The first unknown ship quits or disconnects permanently, about thirty seconds into the match.
The rest of us don't have sufficient damage output to take out the cubes fast. MRRMLL doesn't work, and after 20 minutes of fighting, we couldn't hold Kang together, despite my chat box calls of "Heals to Kang!" and "Tac team to Kang!" Kang blows up.
None of them say a word, as they leave the map.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Here is a sample of the more mundane nonsense I've experienced:
"Elite Kang" - I join a pick-up and find myself teamed with a four-player pre-made. They decided to sabotage the event when I refused to obey orders.
Nothing was more amusing in game that day than the barrage of messages to the effect of "[OH?! YOU WON'T DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD! WELL WE'LL SHOW YOU!]"
*laugh track here*
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Headed out to the left, 3 gens down, helped clear up the spheres & was about to target and blow the 4th gen when I noticed the tell tale number rise over the cube on the right hand side!!
Yep, one of the muppets had started on the other side... Completely ignored local & team yells to stop.. then he switched targets & blew 2 of the gens on the other side!!!
Needless to say, Nanites were everywhere again (left side still hadn't been cleared at this point)!!!
I opted to take the leaver penalty at that point.. some people, you just can't help!!
Beta player - forum knows jack as to when I started
_____________________________________________________
no offense, but I just cant not say this:
I think this very topic is the prime example of what happens, when someone does not feel like a burden to a team
10k DPS Vesta threads: 1; 2