I honestly can't understand where you're coming from. You refuse to acknowledge the tools which are given to you or take the time to learn to use them properly. You insist that a clearly bugged console healing for a quarter of a million per proc should stay.
Wait, what? You just... you just said it?
I guess... I guess I just thought that deep down, whether you prefer PvE or PvP, there's something in every gamer that seeks an intrinsic reward. A win when defeat was possible. Challenge for the sake of it. I thought the worst kind of gamer was the FPS brah-baggers. But even those guys don't want to enable console commands. You've actually managed to lower my opinion of gaming humanity. gg. gg.
A pve crutch is needed if your ship is fragile and faces torpedoes that go super critical.
Sure, if the borg did less damage and no invisible super criticals, then I would not care.
The console cant heal for a quarter of a million.
There are no ships with that much shields to begin with.
I already said that the tools you say are either available to everybody, even feds and klingons, except the one Singularity Quantum Absorption. But that is not 100% on, and you can only do it at times.
Defeat is possible . Bad team mates, borg critical hits.
But I thought that deep down every player Wanted to be rewarded for having good gear, especially if it cost them money.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Is the general consensus here that Viral Matrix hasn't significantly changed since its introduction, that it has been made even more powerful, or that's it's less powerful, but PvP had nothing to do with it?
Also, correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't Jam Sensors changed to a 'fragile' placate due to outcry in PvP?
RE: the topic - I'd be curious to see the parser results if this console wasn't able to proc while under the influence of Cannon Rapid Fire, Scatter Volley, or Fire At Will.
Frankly, it sounds to me like the outrage surrounding the Shield Adaptive Frequency Generator is more indicative of a bigger issue with STO; namely, that sustainable burst dps has become ubiquitous.
You probably dont know romulan traits.Go check on exchange .Romulans have superior operative and Remans superior Infiltrator.With 5 superior operative boffs and all crtH consoles you get over 20%crtH....so human in a lockbox ships vs romulan in same lockbox ship ....romulan will have about 50% crtH than the ship piloted by the human.
cryptic cant even ballance the same ship.
Romulans have no restrictions for fleet weapons.
p.s all romulan stuffs are way over old ships....even without reputation passives.
Sorry for double post , but my Fleet Patrol Escort is way more durable then the Fleet Valdore with the "so op" shield heal console.
Both run with 3 Neutronium consoles. The Fed's superior shield power rating means just that much.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I dont PVP, I never will, but in ESTFs, even one (Conveniently invisible) torpedo hit is enough to make a ship explode in a nice manner.
...whether or not your shields are up, in many/most cases. and ABSOLUTELY if your reason for cloaking is to avoid taking more damage, since you're pretty much DOOMED if your hull and shields aren't 100% when you get hit by a borg monster torpedo.
the romulan ships dont need this console, they are already the best. crewed by the best boffs, and the emergency survivability you get from quantum absorption ALONE is worth the power loss. and they can all battle cloak, and they all have higher then average hitpoints and shield mods. all of them can also use tech doff builds that erase any power level disadvantage.
with this console, as long as your shooting with most of your weapons at all times your shields are getting filled up faster then they can be removed. your always shooting in pve, targets being out of your fireing arc is not a thing in pve. i did an stf with this console and i could tank a gate indefinitely at point blank range just because of this console. even with no rep, the shield refill constantly, HE and quantum absorption kept me alive in that situation better then my other fully reped out kdf or fed character. it trivializes all content its used in.
compare this console to the embassy sci consoles with the heals, this is better then 10 of them stacked.
A pve crutch is needed if your ship is fragile and faces torpedoes that go super critical. If your ship is fragile you built it wrong. Look to yourself for the solution.
Sure, if the borg did less damage and no invisible super criticals, then I would not care. AFG provides no kinetic resists. It will not help survive a 1-shot from a borg torpedo.
The console cant heal for a quarter of a million. 57k per facing x 4 facings = 228,000 sp
There are no ships with that much shields to begin with. Then why is it healing for that much? Answer: Because it's bugged.
I already said that the tools you say are either available to everybody, even feds and klingons, except the one Singularity Quantum Absorption. But that is not 100% on, and you can only do it at times. You are well and truly nackered. The only tools I listed are singularity abilities and warbird consoles.
Defeat is possible . Bad team mates, borg critical hits. Oh, just never because you did something wrong? If you die it's on you. And you know what? That's a good thing. But you clearly are more interested in enabling console commands so you can play in god mode with your crutch. Why don't you just go watch TOS on hulu? There's the same chance of the captain dying as you seem to want to build into STO.
But I thought that deep down every player Wanted to be rewarded for having good gear, especially if it cost them money. What is the reward? The removal of all excitement from the game?
You've got a lot of hogwash here. You're saying that Singularity powers are available to Feds and KDF. That's just plain wrong.
On a deeper level, you're saying that if this were 1982 and we were playing Pac-Man in an arcade you would, if you could, put an extra quarter in to turn all the ghosts blue for the entire game. I love STO, there is no other home for Trek online, and I will fight you with every pixel available until my fingers get tired or I have to stop to do some actual work at work to keep your attitude from influencing this game.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
you can actually see when this goes off in game if you have damage numbers enabled. you will see 4 grey numbers fly by on your ship of smiler numbers that you see in my pictures. its easy to spot, and entertaining to watch the sheer frequency that it appears. defending this console is insanity.
You've got a lot of hogwash here. You're saying that Singularity powers are available to Feds and KDF. That's just plain wrong.
On a deeper level, you're saying that if this were 1982 and we were playing Pac-Man in an arcade you would, if you could, put an extra quarter in to turn all the ghosts blue for the entire game. I love STO, there is no other home for Trek online, and I will fight you with every pixel available until my fingers get tired or I have to stop to do some actual work at work to keep your attitude from influencing this game.
You are funny, no offense intended.
I do like TOS, what's wrong with that? Its really fun, you should watch it too if you can!
Excitement comes from the rewards!
And arcade is boring, I would not play it.
But yes, a Fleet Mogai retrofit is squishier than a Fleet Patrol escort retrofit. Its the shield power difference, and no amount of singularity core powers can make up for that.
Mind, I still like flying the fleet Valdore, its just so pretty!
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
But yes, a Fleet Mogai retrofit is squishier than a Fleet Patrol escort retrofit. Its the shield power difference, and no amount of singularity core powers can make up for that.
Considering my Valdore runs almost constantly at 125 shield power from a base setting of 45...that's just downright false.
This cannot be emphasised enough. One side keeps screaming OMG 1.7million heals, NERF IT! But im still pressing EPtS and TSS just as regularly if i dont want to be space dust. For staying alive the console is nigh on useless as it is, the only thing its good for is reliably getting 1st place in CE, and the best you can hope to get from that is a worthless piece of mk x gear. Hardly worth the bother since survivability wise, slotting an additional armour console or one of those increased shield capacity ones would do more help than this supposedly op valdore console. If anything, it needs a buff to be worth slotting in endgame, not a nerf.
Nope, not a buff. It is fine the way it is. probably 150% instead of 200%
and the heals from this console shouldnt count as score board
To boldly go where no FAWer has ever FAWed before.
But yes, a Fleet Mogai retrofit is squishier than a Fleet Patrol escort retrofit. Its the shield power difference, and no amount of singularity core powers can make up for that.
Mind, I still like flying the fleet Valdore, its just so pretty!
Since we're apparently repeating ourselves now (closed causal time paradox?):
I fly a T'varo, arguably the squishiest of warbirds around. I don't hit as hard as my Fed's andorian escort, nor can I take as much punishment.
BUT, I die less. Why? because I can freakin DISAPPEAR VIRTUALLY AT WILL, and almost always at the exact time I need to the most. Not only that, but I get significant benefits for doing it as often as is practical.
EDIT: Oh, and since we're lingering on this Fleet Mogai vs. Fleet Patrol nonsense anyway, I believe it's worth calling attention to the fact that the Mogai starts out with 10% more hull and 10% more shields before power levels are taken into account.
This is an extrinsic model. A game designed with this in mind will only keep players lone enough for them to kit out their character in sweet loot. Then the player will get bored and leave.
A game with solid fundamental gameplay that challenges players and allows for victory (and the possibility of defeat) through multiple tactics will provide players with intrinsic rewards. These players will return to the game to tweak and try new builds.
The surest way to eliminate this is through a single mechanic which would act as a "crutch."
There are folks that run ESTFs in RA ships, sporting that mix of mission Greens and Blues, whatever DOFFs they grabbed along the way, no Rep, and a skill build they've probably been thinking about doing a respec of for a period of time.
There are folks that try to run ESTFs in lockbox ships, sporting that mix of VR Mk XII/UR Mk XII/R Unis/etc, have all Purp DOFFs, T5 New Rom/Omega/T4 Nukara, a skill build they copied from some popular forum post, and all the rest.
Notice how each of those paragraphs started off?
There are folks that run ESTFs... There are folks that try to run ESTFs...
STO is a very casual game. It is not a hardcore gamer type of game. Cryptic has introduced oodles upon oodles of items to assist that very casual player in accomplishing tasks that some take for granted because they're not...that casual. It's not necessarily a bad thing, since it creates a larger playerbase - a larger customerbase - a larger potential source of income to keep STO alive, dare one say thriving, and to allow it to continue to grow.
That being said though, it does create a series of /facepalmitis amongst the players that are toward the other end of the spectrum...those that are not that casual. You may find them in PvP, but you are also going to find them in PvE.
Some of those very casual players that require such help from Cryptic are attempting to play this off as solely a PvP issue. Perhaps it is the reality of the situation bruising their egos? Some have accepted the truth, and while others may think them delirious, at least they are being honest about the help that they need to get things done. That can be respected. Some of the others? Meh, yeah...anyway.
Now before somebody jumps in saying that I'm being demeaning or unkind to certain players because I think I'm some kind of STO rockstar, let me put a stop to that right now. I consider myself to be fairly average.
Honestly, if I do a personal inventory - I see myself as fairly average. I like to think I might have a more advanced understanding of some of the mechanics, because I've invested the time in trying to figure those out - looked at what others have done - built upon that, etc, etc, etc. I'm very grateful for the work that folks have put into sharing info about the mechanics of the game (including the rare times when Cryptic decides not to be so cryptic about things...ahem).
But that's mainly to try to balance where at 41 I'm just not the player that I was in my 20s or even in my 30s. I'm not as dexterous as I once was. I've definitely lost most of my twitch. I'll fatfinger and misclick TRIBBLE all the time these days...meh. I used to harp on folks needing better situational awareness, and sure enough...I've started developing tunnelvision out the wahzoo...bah.
So yeah, if I do a personal inventory - weigh all "my" pros and cons - I see myself as fairly average. There are definitely folks that are more advanced and there are definitely those elite rock stars out there. I'm neither.
While STO has the following modes (Normal, Advanced, Elite), I personally see the playerbase more as (Very Casual, Casual, Normal, Advanced, Elite). What this means, imho, when I look at the modes is the following...
Normal (Very Casual/Casual)
Advanced (Casual/Normal)
Elite (Normal/Advanced)
Of course, with all the gimmicks Cryptic has introduced into STO...it kind of allows more for the following...
Normal (Very Casual)
Advanced (Very Casual/Casual)
Elite (Very Casual/Casual)
...depending on how many gimmicks one has elected to use.
I mentioned it in a thread somewhere, but I will say it again here. Perhaps Cryptic needs to address those modes to better reflect the player, eh? It's a tough one, because the Very Casual player thoroughly enjoys feeling like the hero - even if to some they're doing little more than tossing a hand grenade in a barrel of fish and then getting a pat on the back.
With rewards corresponding to the level of difficulty, eh? Not saying that somebody running Ultra can get something somebody running Elite could never get, but rather than it would be more likely that somebody running Ultra would get it or they could get it faster. Kind of along the lines of how CCR rewards X marks while CCE rewards Y marks.
Obviously though, there would have to be some sort of "gate" on certain modes - otherwise you'd face the risk of certain players trying to ride the apron strings of other players and leading to potential failure...bah, we see this as is with the current system - folks doing things that they're not ready for because they want the better reward.
But what that would allow for, imho, is a situation where certain items would still exist as those gimmicky aids to help certain players out...but they would not be enough for the more difficult scenarios. For some players, that would be fine. They accept the scope of their capabilities, are not delusional about where they fit in that theoretical food chain, and would be happy to have that opportunity to face a greater challenge. For some though, their egos could not take it. They did save the Universe, damn it...they're the #&^#%! hero and everybody needs to accept it. /cough
So er, yeah...oh well, that's the PvE side of things, eh? What about PvP?
It's been mentioned a few times, not that any actual work has gone into it - rather, just a case of putting feelers out there, about placing various modifiers/limiters on PvP maps. Considering all the database shenanigans of late and just how database intensive the game is, even adding a single additional field for everything could be pretty...could be pretty not pretty in the least, lol. But a field that would have a stat referencing another table with a list of various modifiers/caps...so that on a PvP map, certain things would be...limited.
Of course, nobody should kid themselves, there are plenty of PvP folks out there that run as many if not more gimmicks than some of the PvE folks do...so it could potentially cut into the bottom line for Cryptic...mess with revenue, and thus - not happen.
And all that TL:DR up there...why did I post it here? Well, reading the discussion so far...it felt necessary.
you can actually see when this goes off in game if you have damage numbers enabled. you will see 4 grey numbers fly by on your ship of smiler numbers that you see in my pictures. its easy to spot, and entertaining to watch the sheer frequency that it appears. defending this console is insanity.
Over a longer run it still doesn't proc more than the listed percentage, what you are observing is a streak of procs. This is only an issue as far as imbalance between weapon choices are concerned, one ideally shouldn't be favoured over the other, in this case cannons are favoured. Changing to proc per volley makes sense, but not for the reason your championing. This console doesn't proc as much as you try to make it out to be.
Also the four numbers is because it heals four shield facings, not because you procced four times in a row.
Romulan base power setting is 40, not 45. And I would like to see proof of your outlandish claim.
Sometimes, on one of my toons - I forget whether I'm at Full Eng Power or Full Wep Power. Cause even at x/15 Wep Power...he'll be at 125/15 Wep Power. Sure, if I watch it - I'll notice the drain and change it...but sometimes I forget to switch it after zipping off to the next encounter.
The sheer amount of power available to players these days...well, yes - one can experience the -10 Base Power per Subsystem Penalty a Romulan incurs...but uh, they'd have to do so purposefully. Between traits, performance skills, gearing, abilities, DOFFs, x/15 instead of x/25...well, we're just oozing power. It's one of those additional Eng complaints...something else that they're not so special at doing these days.
Most people are bringing up the insane crits a small segment of the user base can achieve when calling this to be nerfed. A large % of the people that play this game don't have the knowledge or time to farm the massive amounts of EC required to run 5 VR mk XII tac consoles. Heck, a good amount of them can't even run R XII or VR XI ones. Add to that all the tweaking all you guys put into your builds with boffs, doffs, and other stuff. You all assume every player in this game runs massive DPS builds that can make this console heal them instantly on a crit. A crit is dumb luck, so you heal on a crit, fine. All the data being posted, just shows heals on CRF, not normal situations. Stop trying to make this console seem more than it is. It's fine as it is.
Over a longer run it still doesn't proc more than the listed percentage, what you are observing is a streak of procs. This is only an issue as far as imbalance between weapon choices are concerned, one ideally shouldn't be favoured over the other, in this case cannons are favoured. Changing to proc per volley makes sense, but not for the reason your championing. This console doesn't proc as much as you try to make it out to be.
Also the four numbers is because it heals four shield facings, not because you procced four times in a row.
...in that first series, there were 6 Procs in a matter of 14 seconds. You can see from his sig that the toon is running 3x DHCs/Torp & 3x Turrets. Based on the numbers reflected in the logs, even at 200% - I'm thinking those are all DHC procs...no turret procs. Course, can't tell when CRF was used...something I did not account for in my earlier probability post.
Rather than the parsed info, it may be a case of supplying Cryptic with the raw log info...personally I use Notepad++ & Excel/Calc to do parses (because I like Plasma and the Cryptic log doesn't always attribute Plasma damage correctly - so it can't be parsed correctly).
Somebody could grab a friend, use a single weapon, and look at the results...using different weapons and different weapon abilities to see what happens. Heck, one might even include using Singularity Overcharge to see how that affects it - whether things like DEM affect it - etc, etc, etc...there are just so many things that might, eh?
Most people are bringing up the insane crits a small segment of the user base can achieve when calling this to be nerfed. A large % of the people that play this game don't have the knowledge or time to farm the massive amounts of EC required to run 5 VR mk XII tac consoles. Heck, a good amount of them can't even run R XII or VR XI ones. Add to that all the tweaking all you guys put into your builds with boffs, doffs, and other stuff. You all assume every player in this game runs massive DPS builds that can make this console heal them instantly on a crit. A crit is dumb luck, so you heal on a crit, fine. All the data being posted, just shows heals on CRF, not normal situations. Stop trying to make this console seem more than it is. It's fine as it is.
You can't point to a problem...as you did in your post...and then say it is fine. You've made an argument for a "limiter" being put in place for the theoretical max potential of the console. Honestly, look at what you said...and that's not much different than how Archon started the feedback request off. Not about touching the "normal", but looking at the theoretical min and max performance of it.
It's possible for them to tweak it up at the low end, tweak it down at the high end, and the person sitting in the middle...will never know.
Which based on what you posted...pointing out the problem that can exist because of certain builds...you would appear to agree with, no?
Over a longer run it still doesn't proc more than the listed percentage, what you are observing is a streak of procs. This is only an issue as far as imbalance between weapon choices are concerned, one ideally shouldn't be favoured over the other, in this case cannons are favoured. Changing to proc per volley makes sense, but not for the reason your championing. This console doesn't proc as much as you try to make it out to be.
Also the four numbers is because it heals four shield facings, not because you procced four times in a row.
how many screenshots do i need to post to prove that this streak is not the exception but the rule? a 2.5% chance of procing per shot is an enormousness chance of it procing considering how many shots a ship fires at once. this thing is procing off DHCs and turrets in my log, so those small numbers, which are pretty huge, are the turrets and the rest are DHCs, all shield full heals if i had 0 capacity left. some weapons not getting big procs, thats not an issue at all, turrets even generate huge numbers.
i indicate every 4 entries when a new proc happens, theres an entry for each shield faceing. kinda funny how even in the face of actual data you try to say its not procing as often as the actual data indicates. maybe you dont understand what your seeing in the picture?
Most people are bringing up the insane crits a small segment of the user base can achieve when calling this to be nerfed. A large % of the people that play this game don't have the knowledge or time to farm the massive amounts of EC required to run 5 VR mk XII tac consoles. Heck, a good amount of them can't even run R XII or VR XI ones. Add to that all the tweaking all you guys put into your builds with boffs, doffs, and other stuff. You all assume every player in this game runs massive DPS builds that can make this console heal them instantly on a crit. A crit is dumb luck, so you heal on a crit, fine. All the data being posted, just shows heals on CRF, not normal situations. Stop trying to make this console seem more than it is. It's fine as it is.
anyone that can hit the space bar can get procs at the rate i got them. its based on shots fired, all you do is shoot. theres not even skill involved anywhere in the equation
since everyone is being such a good sport and being completely intellectually honest
How about posting screenshots with a normal players kind of build?
post your idea of a normal players build and I'll run it with my romulan engy/sci so no tac damage bonus, I'll also put some common grade weapons if you think that will make a difference.
post your idea of a normal players build and I'll run it with my romulan engy/sci so no tac damage bonus, I'll also put some common grade weapons if you think that will make a difference.
How 'bout a D'deridex or Ha'apax beam-boat... no Fire at Will?
Romulan ships do have a power penalty. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=9829851 . They are at a disadvantage which forces players into certain skills in order to alleviate the problem (most players TRIBBLE up skills the first time around and many never respec them). This console works as advertised and doesn't make Romulan ship the unbeatable ships you are all making it be.
Romulan ships do have a power penalty. http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=9829851 . They are at a disadvantage which forces players into certain skills in order to alleviate the problem (most players TRIBBLE up skills the first time around and many never respec them). This console works as advertised and doesn't make Romulan ship the unbeatable ships you are all making it be.
i wish i had saved the pms i got from this bug user calling me a hacker because he couldn't kill me, just for you
Normal player.
#1-No fleet ships (You'd be surprised how many people don't belong to fleets or complain about not being able to make ECs)
#2-No blue or purple Mk xii or purple Mk xi TAC consoles. Heck bad weapon and console mix.
#3-No Mk xii weapons or purple mk xi. They are casual and don't have time for constant rep grinds and STF runs.
#4-No optimal doffs and no battery builds.
#5-Skills all over the place.
#6-This also means not all the rep grind passives.
#7-Since it's Romulans, most have the named boffs from the story only.
In the end, try to build the ship with 1mil ec and think of how crappy your ship was before you went into forums and grinded everything. No rerunning episodes for gear, you know most people just run through most once.
Comments
A pve crutch is needed if your ship is fragile and faces torpedoes that go super critical.
Sure, if the borg did less damage and no invisible super criticals, then I would not care.
The console cant heal for a quarter of a million.
There are no ships with that much shields to begin with.
I already said that the tools you say are either available to everybody, even feds and klingons, except the one Singularity Quantum Absorption. But that is not 100% on, and you can only do it at times.
Defeat is possible . Bad team mates, borg critical hits.
But I thought that deep down every player Wanted to be rewarded for having good gear, especially if it cost them money.
Is the general consensus here that Viral Matrix hasn't significantly changed since its introduction, that it has been made even more powerful, or that's it's less powerful, but PvP had nothing to do with it?
Also, correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't Jam Sensors changed to a 'fragile' placate due to outcry in PvP?
RE: the topic - I'd be curious to see the parser results if this console wasn't able to proc while under the influence of Cannon Rapid Fire, Scatter Volley, or Fire At Will.
Frankly, it sounds to me like the outrage surrounding the Shield Adaptive Frequency Generator is more indicative of a bigger issue with STO; namely, that sustainable burst dps has become ubiquitous.
Sorry for double post , but my Fleet Patrol Escort is way more durable then the Fleet Valdore with the "so op" shield heal console.
Both run with 3 Neutronium consoles. The Fed's superior shield power rating means just that much.
I will concede that it is more durable, in the sense of "is capable of taking more damage before exploding."
But a warbird is at least as survivable as the FPE, if you CLOAK WISELY.
But you know these things. C'mon, dude. There are enough legitimate issues in STO that bear looking into. Let's not add phantoms to the roster.
with this console, as long as your shooting with most of your weapons at all times your shields are getting filled up faster then they can be removed. your always shooting in pve, targets being out of your fireing arc is not a thing in pve. i did an stf with this console and i could tank a gate indefinitely at point blank range just because of this console. even with no rep, the shield refill constantly, HE and quantum absorption kept me alive in that situation better then my other fully reped out kdf or fed character. it trivializes all content its used in.
compare this console to the embassy sci consoles with the heals, this is better then 10 of them stacked.
On a deeper level, you're saying that if this were 1982 and we were playing Pac-Man in an arcade you would, if you could, put an extra quarter in to turn all the ghosts blue for the entire game. I love STO, there is no other home for Trek online, and I will fight you with every pixel available until my fingers get tired or I have to stop to do some actual work at work to keep your attitude from influencing this game.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
https://i.minus.com/i1dhesx4C37Un.JPG
you can actually see when this goes off in game if you have damage numbers enabled. you will see 4 grey numbers fly by on your ship of smiler numbers that you see in my pictures. its easy to spot, and entertaining to watch the sheer frequency that it appears. defending this console is insanity.
You are funny, no offense intended.
I do like TOS, what's wrong with that? Its really fun, you should watch it too if you can!
Excitement comes from the rewards!
And arcade is boring, I would not play it.
But yes, a Fleet Mogai retrofit is squishier than a Fleet Patrol escort retrofit. Its the shield power difference, and no amount of singularity core powers can make up for that.
Mind, I still like flying the fleet Valdore, its just so pretty!
Considering my Valdore runs almost constantly at 125 shield power from a base setting of 45...that's just downright false.
Nope, not a buff. It is fine the way it is. probably 150% instead of 200%
and the heals from this console shouldnt count as score board
Since we're apparently repeating ourselves now (closed causal time paradox?):
EDIT: Oh, and since we're lingering on this Fleet Mogai vs. Fleet Patrol nonsense anyway, I believe it's worth calling attention to the fact that the Mogai starts out with 10% more hull and 10% more shields before power levels are taken into account.
This is an extrinsic model. A game designed with this in mind will only keep players lone enough for them to kit out their character in sweet loot. Then the player will get bored and leave.
A game with solid fundamental gameplay that challenges players and allows for victory (and the possibility of defeat) through multiple tactics will provide players with intrinsic rewards. These players will return to the game to tweak and try new builds.
The surest way to eliminate this is through a single mechanic which would act as a "crutch."
Here's a great blog post on the topic. http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2013/06/intrinsic-rewards-and-replayability-in.html
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Romulan base power setting is 40, not 45. And I would like to see proof of your outlandish claim.
A commenter on the blog disagrees too. You underestimate the power of sweet loot.
http://www.slideshare.net/playfulwingmen/gamification-extrinsic-vs-intrinsic-rewards-17681228
"Extrinsic rewards turn play into work, and work into drudgery."
And lest you think this is some new thing only related to gaming:
http://www.iveybusinessjournal.com/topics/the-workplace/the-four-intrinsic-rewards-that-drive-employee-engagement#.Uboqf1csJkY
http://www.governing.com/columns/mgmt-insights/The-Power-of-Intrinsic.html
This is something that has been understood for a while now. Extrinsic rewards stop working quickly.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
There are folks that try to run ESTFs in lockbox ships, sporting that mix of VR Mk XII/UR Mk XII/R Unis/etc, have all Purp DOFFs, T5 New Rom/Omega/T4 Nukara, a skill build they copied from some popular forum post, and all the rest.
Notice how each of those paragraphs started off?
There are folks that run ESTFs...
There are folks that try to run ESTFs...
STO is a very casual game. It is not a hardcore gamer type of game. Cryptic has introduced oodles upon oodles of items to assist that very casual player in accomplishing tasks that some take for granted because they're not...that casual. It's not necessarily a bad thing, since it creates a larger playerbase - a larger customerbase - a larger potential source of income to keep STO alive, dare one say thriving, and to allow it to continue to grow.
That being said though, it does create a series of /facepalmitis amongst the players that are toward the other end of the spectrum...those that are not that casual. You may find them in PvP, but you are also going to find them in PvE.
Some of those very casual players that require such help from Cryptic are attempting to play this off as solely a PvP issue. Perhaps it is the reality of the situation bruising their egos? Some have accepted the truth, and while others may think them delirious, at least they are being honest about the help that they need to get things done. That can be respected. Some of the others? Meh, yeah...anyway.
Now before somebody jumps in saying that I'm being demeaning or unkind to certain players because I think I'm some kind of STO rockstar, let me put a stop to that right now. I consider myself to be fairly average.
Honestly, if I do a personal inventory - I see myself as fairly average. I like to think I might have a more advanced understanding of some of the mechanics, because I've invested the time in trying to figure those out - looked at what others have done - built upon that, etc, etc, etc. I'm very grateful for the work that folks have put into sharing info about the mechanics of the game (including the rare times when Cryptic decides not to be so cryptic about things...ahem).
But that's mainly to try to balance where at 41 I'm just not the player that I was in my 20s or even in my 30s. I'm not as dexterous as I once was. I've definitely lost most of my twitch. I'll fatfinger and misclick TRIBBLE all the time these days...meh. I used to harp on folks needing better situational awareness, and sure enough...I've started developing tunnelvision out the wahzoo...bah.
So yeah, if I do a personal inventory - weigh all "my" pros and cons - I see myself as fairly average. There are definitely folks that are more advanced and there are definitely those elite rock stars out there. I'm neither.
While STO has the following modes (Normal, Advanced, Elite), I personally see the playerbase more as (Very Casual, Casual, Normal, Advanced, Elite). What this means, imho, when I look at the modes is the following...
Normal (Very Casual/Casual)
Advanced (Casual/Normal)
Elite (Normal/Advanced)
Of course, with all the gimmicks Cryptic has introduced into STO...it kind of allows more for the following...
Normal (Very Casual)
Advanced (Very Casual/Casual)
Elite (Very Casual/Casual)
...depending on how many gimmicks one has elected to use.
I mentioned it in a thread somewhere, but I will say it again here. Perhaps Cryptic needs to address those modes to better reflect the player, eh? It's a tough one, because the Very Casual player thoroughly enjoys feeling like the hero - even if to some they're doing little more than tossing a hand grenade in a barrel of fish and then getting a pat on the back.
Perhaps if there were the following modes, eh?
Casual (Very Casual/Casual)
Normal (Casual/Normal)
Advanced (Normal/Advanced)
Elite (Advanced/Elite)
Ultra/Nightmare (Elite)
With rewards corresponding to the level of difficulty, eh? Not saying that somebody running Ultra can get something somebody running Elite could never get, but rather than it would be more likely that somebody running Ultra would get it or they could get it faster. Kind of along the lines of how CCR rewards X marks while CCE rewards Y marks.
Obviously though, there would have to be some sort of "gate" on certain modes - otherwise you'd face the risk of certain players trying to ride the apron strings of other players and leading to potential failure...bah, we see this as is with the current system - folks doing things that they're not ready for because they want the better reward.
But what that would allow for, imho, is a situation where certain items would still exist as those gimmicky aids to help certain players out...but they would not be enough for the more difficult scenarios. For some players, that would be fine. They accept the scope of their capabilities, are not delusional about where they fit in that theoretical food chain, and would be happy to have that opportunity to face a greater challenge. For some though, their egos could not take it. They did save the Universe, damn it...they're the #&^#%! hero and everybody needs to accept it. /cough
So er, yeah...oh well, that's the PvE side of things, eh? What about PvP?
It's been mentioned a few times, not that any actual work has gone into it - rather, just a case of putting feelers out there, about placing various modifiers/limiters on PvP maps. Considering all the database shenanigans of late and just how database intensive the game is, even adding a single additional field for everything could be pretty...could be pretty not pretty in the least, lol. But a field that would have a stat referencing another table with a list of various modifiers/caps...so that on a PvP map, certain things would be...limited.
Of course, nobody should kid themselves, there are plenty of PvP folks out there that run as many if not more gimmicks than some of the PvE folks do...so it could potentially cut into the bottom line for Cryptic...mess with revenue, and thus - not happen.
And all that TL:DR up there...why did I post it here? Well, reading the discussion so far...it felt necessary.
Over a longer run it still doesn't proc more than the listed percentage, what you are observing is a streak of procs. This is only an issue as far as imbalance between weapon choices are concerned, one ideally shouldn't be favoured over the other, in this case cannons are favoured. Changing to proc per volley makes sense, but not for the reason your championing. This console doesn't proc as much as you try to make it out to be.
Also the four numbers is because it heals four shield facings, not because you procced four times in a row.
Sometimes, on one of my toons - I forget whether I'm at Full Eng Power or Full Wep Power. Cause even at x/15 Wep Power...he'll be at 125/15 Wep Power. Sure, if I watch it - I'll notice the drain and change it...but sometimes I forget to switch it after zipping off to the next encounter.
The sheer amount of power available to players these days...well, yes - one can experience the -10 Base Power per Subsystem Penalty a Romulan incurs...but uh, they'd have to do so purposefully. Between traits, performance skills, gearing, abilities, DOFFs, x/15 instead of x/25...well, we're just oozing power. It's one of those additional Eng complaints...something else that they're not so special at doing these days.
If we read his log from the bottom up...
10:20:35 Proc
10:20:37 Proc
10:20:39 Proc
10:20:39 Proc
10:20:45 Proc
10:20:49 Proc
-=-=-=-=-=-
10:43:11 Proc
10:43:15 Proc
...in that first series, there were 6 Procs in a matter of 14 seconds. You can see from his sig that the toon is running 3x DHCs/Torp & 3x Turrets. Based on the numbers reflected in the logs, even at 200% - I'm thinking those are all DHC procs...no turret procs. Course, can't tell when CRF was used...something I did not account for in my earlier probability post.
Rather than the parsed info, it may be a case of supplying Cryptic with the raw log info...personally I use Notepad++ & Excel/Calc to do parses (because I like Plasma and the Cryptic log doesn't always attribute Plasma damage correctly - so it can't be parsed correctly).
Somebody could grab a friend, use a single weapon, and look at the results...using different weapons and different weapon abilities to see what happens. Heck, one might even include using Singularity Overcharge to see how that affects it - whether things like DEM affect it - etc, etc, etc...there are just so many things that might, eh?
You can't point to a problem...as you did in your post...and then say it is fine. You've made an argument for a "limiter" being put in place for the theoretical max potential of the console. Honestly, look at what you said...and that's not much different than how Archon started the feedback request off. Not about touching the "normal", but looking at the theoretical min and max performance of it.
It's possible for them to tweak it up at the low end, tweak it down at the high end, and the person sitting in the middle...will never know.
Which based on what you posted...pointing out the problem that can exist because of certain builds...you would appear to agree with, no?
how many screenshots do i need to post to prove that this streak is not the exception but the rule? a 2.5% chance of procing per shot is an enormousness chance of it procing considering how many shots a ship fires at once. this thing is procing off DHCs and turrets in my log, so those small numbers, which are pretty huge, are the turrets and the rest are DHCs, all shield full heals if i had 0 capacity left. some weapons not getting big procs, thats not an issue at all, turrets even generate huge numbers.
i indicate every 4 entries when a new proc happens, theres an entry for each shield faceing. kinda funny how even in the face of actual data you try to say its not procing as often as the actual data indicates. maybe you dont understand what your seeing in the picture?
anyone that can hit the space bar can get procs at the rate i got them. its based on shots fired, all you do is shoot. theres not even skill involved anywhere in the equation
since everyone is being such a good sport and being completely intellectually honest
not
here's another screenshot!
https://i.minus.com/igib0jGgG6oLk.JPG
post your idea of a normal players build and I'll run it with my romulan engy/sci so no tac damage bonus, I'll also put some common grade weapons if you think that will make a difference.
How 'bout a D'deridex or Ha'apax beam-boat... no Fire at Will?
Fire at will is not a normal players build? :eek:
Ok, I must collect gear to test
an escort with 3 DHCs, 3 turrets and a torp is about as normal as you can get.
i wish i had saved the pms i got from this bug user calling me a hacker because he couldn't kill me, just for you
Of course it is.
But I'm more curious to see how a non-escort/cannon/AoE-centric build fares with this console.
And thank you!
#1-No fleet ships (You'd be surprised how many people don't belong to fleets or complain about not being able to make ECs)
#2-No blue or purple Mk xii or purple Mk xi TAC consoles. Heck bad weapon and console mix.
#3-No Mk xii weapons or purple mk xi. They are casual and don't have time for constant rep grinds and STF runs.
#4-No optimal doffs and no battery builds.
#5-Skills all over the place.
#6-This also means not all the rep grind passives.
#7-Since it's Romulans, most have the named boffs from the story only.
In the end, try to build the ship with 1mil ec and think of how crappy your ship was before you went into forums and grinded everything. No rerunning episodes for gear, you know most people just run through most once.