Yeah I can agree with most that this bank issue is not an exploit and is the main juncture in which majority of the player base has had to use to store items since Cryptic pumps out new items all the time but never addresses storage problems from their practices.
So I believe personally this should be reverted back until a legitimate and reasonable solution is found. Not only is it bad for starbase progression the end result will be people making 100's of accounts and clogging up the servers to work around this. Not only that but as well the exchange will be flooded with all the civilian and science doffs which are already seemingly low. Not trying to bash cryptic but they thought this worked great for neverwinter which is still in its infancy and hasn't been running for 3+ years.
If you use something in a way the devs didn't design it to be used or think it would be used in that way it is an exploit. Exploits aren't always about cheating to gain an advantage. Using another game as an example, WoW before the shattering had parts of the map that were not meant to be reachable. People found ways to get to these areas including GM island. There was no advantage to this nor gain of anything however it was still an exploit and was even punishable.
It is suprising they didn't change this earlier given that they do charge for extra bank space and extra DOFF slots. Just because something has been that way for a certain length of time does not mean it will not change or should stay that way. I was suprised at the mail systems unlimited storage use when I came here as I am used to time restrictions where mail would be deleted after 30 days with attachements or without. They were effectively losing money because of this.
On the DOFF for projects issue maybe they should make a DOFF repositroy at the star base where the DOFFs can be stored until there is enough for the project. This should be free and unlimited however the restriction would be that any put in there can not be retrieved by players.
On BOFFs we need to be able to put them in the bank and even to move them about in our inventory. This would reduce the mail use as storage in this area. This is the only reason I use mail as storage if I could put them in my bank I wouldn't use the mail system for it.
If you use something in a way the devs didn't design it to be used or think it would be used in that way it is an exploit. Exploits aren't always about cheating to gain an advantage. Using another game as an example, WoW before the shattering had parts of the map that were not meant to be reachable. People found ways to get to these areas including GM island. There was no advantage to this nor gain of anything however it was still an exploit and was even punishable.
It is suprising they didn't change this earlier given that they do charge for extra bank space and extra DOFF slots. Just because something has been that way for a certain length of time does not mean it will not change or should stay that way. I was suprised at the mail systems unlimited storage use when I came here as I am used to time restrictions where mail would be deleted after 30 days with attachements or without. They were effectively losing money because of this.
On the DOFF for projects issue maybe they should make a DOFF repositroy at the star base where the DOFFs can be stored until there is enough for the project. This should be free and unlimited however the restriction would be that any put in there can not be retrieved by players.
On BOFFs we need to be able to put them in the bank and even to move them about in our inventory. This would reduce the mail use as storage in this area. This is the only reason I use mail as storage if I could put them in my bank I wouldn't use the mail system for it.
Wall of text about being surprised this has been like this for 3 years and exists in almost every mmorpg? Yeah QQ somewhere else and quit trolling me :P
Wall of text about being surprised this has been like this for 3 years and exists in almost every mmorpg? Yeah QQ somewhere else and quit trolling me :P
QQ I am not QQing I am looking at it from their side of the argument. However if it does turn out to be a bug as the mail system is messed up at the moment I won't complain and if it does turn out to be intended then I will have to adapt to it as will we all. What we need, and I haven't see it so if it is posted then point me to it, is confirmation one way or the other from some one at Cryptic.
I did say I think they need to put in some sort of DOFF storage into star bases as they need a lot of them to do the projects which to be fair should not be used to force people to buy more slots individually. If I personally wanted more DOFFs then yes I should pay for the extra slots.
I have not played alot of MMOs but the ones I have played do have limits on the mail system to stop it being used as extra storage space. That is what I was used to, so yes I was suprised it was unlimited when I came here. However just because something has been that way for a long time does not mean it will not be changed. After all look at the complaints about the change to the leadership trait.
They were effectively losing money because of this.
No they weren't. Because if we *COULD* buy extra doff slots to store the *540* daily required doffs, we might have: It's a hell of a lot less hassle than stashing them into your MAILBOX 5 at a time.
BUT WE CAN'T. Faced with the complete IMPOSSIBILITY of doing so, the only option left is to spam mule accounts to hold daily starbase food rations on.
Understand that we don't actually *WANT* to store thousands of doffs this way. The system FORCES it to be done this way because there is simply no alternative to keeping around thousands of doffs nobody actually personally wants!
Why was this not documented and published before release?
Many of my buddies who have played this game for years and years lost a ton of expensive stuff without warning. I have not being playing as long, so I am not personally impacted as much, but this release without warning is just awful.
To the people who want to argue that folks should have not used the mail this way, the point is being missed. This major change should have been widely published before release so players can make adjustments.
This Power Trip Nerfing has got to stop. Crytpic needs to stop knee jerking the MMO economy like this. You should make subtle changes and document/publish, not a major system change without notification before release.
Where is Branflakes, Stahl, and the dev team on this topic? :mad:
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Based on Bran's twitter, it looks like the 100 limit is here to stay.
However, items above and beyond the limit are apparently supposed to unspool progressively as you make room. So it sounds like any attachments aren't lost, just locked out until you clear space (once they resolve the deletion bug).
This had better be a bug, because I have 8 alts that fund my mains for starbase projects and there is no way I have the time to search every alt to see if they have the doffs I need for a project for my mains, which is why I mail them out to myself, with a title description so I know what doff types they are.
This had better not hold, I am not certain about others even if I can make a fleet of alts to hold unending white doff officers, which I have a sizable amount right now, searching each alt because I have a mail limit for funding my starbase for my mains is well...... beyond stupid.
God the white knights that defend cryptic no matter what they do drives me mad. This was never a exploit, it a poor attempt to try to milk people more while frustrating long term players.
I have most of main main and alts at 400 of 400 doff and I still never have the room mind you most are blue/purple officers already and holding white doffs for starbase projects on top of that well let just stay I do not have the room.
Nor do I want to spend all day on another alt made for holding more white officers trying to see if that character has what my main need for a starbase project.
Because a quality of life exploit is still an exploit. And I have to imagine the amount of ether-stored stuff was wreaking havoc on the databases,.
You've got no idea WTF you're talking about. The asset tag used for an item you attach to a message is smaller than the text of the message. 5 attached items is likely smaller than 75 characters.
You've got no idea WTF you're talking about. The asset tag used for an item you attach to a message is smaller than the text of the message. 5 attached items is likely smaller than 75 characters.
And that might be relevant if people were only storing one mail's worth of items.
This is a foolish and greedy change. 100 attachments is not high enough. They need to go back to the 500 mail limit. I have bought additional storage slots. I store commodities, ship repair components, and samples in my bank, because the system reads them being there and they are regularly needed.
I also store bound items there like the all but useless Phoenix & Crystal Shard pets. And, Borg Neural Processors, Lobi Crystals, Romulan Radiation Reports, and Glowing Plants. These should just be counted like Omega Marks. It's stupid and wasteful that we have to devote bank slots to them.
I like to keep my character inventory as clear as possible to pick up all of the loot from missions. I have to hold it until I can sell it at Earth Space Dock or the Exchange. I'm not interested in disposing at the Replicator for less energy credits. That leaves the mail for short and long term storage of items that I will need soon. Furthermore, I store commodities, components, samples, hypos, batteries, etc, that I use on a regular basis and replenish when they are running out.
How are mails counted that I sent to @handle? I did not specify a character so any of my characters could access it. Now, with this new hindsight, I wish I had not done that. Does that count as 100 for all them, or can I have 100 for each of them?
If we can't delete emails, then it's unfair to have a 500 mail limit. My inbox is piling up with item sold emails and item exchange sale expired emails (with no item attached).
If you want to sell more bank, inventory, and shared bank slots, LOWER THEIR PRICES! Also, increase the caps for those that want to purchase more slots.
And that might be relevant if people were only storing one mail's worth of items.
So do the math, it's not that hard. 500 messages with no text and 5 attachments (I'm assuming 16 chars per attachment) vs 500 messages with 250 characters in text box.
Think about it, when you email someone about an awesome video you saw on youtube, are you sending them the video or link to the video ? The in-game attachments are links, so very little space is actually used on the servers or your PC.
The issue here is it was done without warning / discussion or even acknowledgement that it was even done . I'm just hoping it's a bug connected with the other mail issue as I'm sure I'm not the only one who will lose hundreds of millions of EC if this is actually a stealth attachment grab. I've got cash purchases attached to some mail messages.
This had better be a bug, because I have 8 alts that fund my mains for starbase projects and there is no way I have the time to search every alt to see if they have the doffs I need for a project for my mains, which is why I mail them out to myself, with a title description so I know what doff types they are.
its not a bug; its intentional; cryptics solution to your/our problem is buy more slots
see my 1st post on the thread here sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=695071
I can only hope this doesn't stick and greed and poor short sight of the implications for people with many alt would have by making this move, I spend money for unlocks all the time on my mains and alts.
However doffs especially doing the recruitment all my alts take up room and having to log on each alt to check if they have what I need for a project on one of my mains in a fleet is well unacceptable both in time and frustration...
I rather not even do it or move on to another game then deal with having to do that daily if cryptic continues to stick to its guns on this proposed stealth nerf.
I get tired of those the white knights that will defend cryptic no matter what they do.
Perhaps my point wasn't cklear or it was the other mailing post but I have the freaking unlocks.
However doffs especially doing the recruitment all my alts take up room and having to log on each alt to check if they have what I need for a project on one of my mains in a fleet is well unacceptable both in time and frustration...
I rather not even do it or move on to another game then deal with having to do that daily if cryptic continues to stick to its guns on this proposed stealth nerf
I am not here to try to pretend that we should have unlimited mail space, if you knew what was going on you would know there was already a fair and generous mail space given to us at 500 mails with 5 per mail or whatever you wanted to put in there.
So they take us from 500x5 =2500 to 100 mails but 20x5 mail holding so we go from 2500 to 100.
If that isn't a stealth nerf of epic proportion I do not know what is.
It is not about the money wither buddy its about the ease of grabbing the doff's I need for a project on one of main's when they need it since they are near cap they have to make several trips to the mailbox as it is to get the doff's if available for a project.
I am not going to spend 1-2 hours each day checking alts to see if they are holding white doff's my main's need for a project.
You ranting on about how its a exploit is well very sad to hear, do you defend cryptic no matter what they do to us as a community or do you see all that cryptic does as all that is right and pure in this world?
Cryptic nerfing Mail on us, without telling us, was not cool by any standard.
I can understand them not wanting Mail to be a secondary bank, but they should've realized there is a DOFF storage problem and that they should've provided us a legitimate way to store DOFFs for Starbase Projects, without forcing us to sacrifice our character DOFF space for it.
Which now forces us to either:
Buy alt characters slots, and buy 400 DOFF limits on those alts
Or
Taking advantage of the Free Accounts and create DOFF storage without needing to use money or Zen.
Dunno about you, but the later alterative is more appealing. And this is worse off for Cryptic than the mail storage problem, because they are losing even more server space and not generating any revenue.
So they should either undo the new Mail limits or provide us a legitimate DOFF Storage for Fleet Projects, without Fleet Projects being active.
This is a foolish and greedy change. 100 attachments is not high enough. They need to go back to the 500 mail limit. I have bought additional storage slots. I store commodities, ship repair components, and samples in my bank, because the system reads them being there and they are regularly needed.
I also store bound items there like the all but useless Phoenix & Crystal Shard pets. And, Borg Neural Processors, Lobi Crystals, Romulan Radiation Reports, and Glowing Plants. These should just be counted like Omega Marks. It's stupid and wasteful that we have to devote bank slots to them.
I like to keep my character inventory as clear as possible to pick up all of the loot from missions. I have to hold it until I can sell it at Earth Space Dock or the Exchange. I'm not interested in disposing at the Replicator for less energy credits. That leaves the mail for short and long term storage of items that I will need soon. Furthermore, I store commodities, components, samples, hypos, batteries, etc, that I use on a regular basis and replenish when they are running out.
How are mails counted that I sent to @handle? I did not specify a character so any of my characters could access it. Now, with this new hindsight, I wish I had not done that. Does that count as 100 for all them, or can I have 100 for each of them?
If we can't delete emails, then it's unfair to have a 500 mail limit. My inbox is piling up with item sold emails and item exchange sale expired emails (with no item attached).
If you want to sell more bank, inventory, and shared bank slots, LOWER THEIR PRICES! Also, increase the caps for those that want to purchase more slots.
First off, thank you Tarrennis for saving me some time and already having pretty much written what I might have, virtually verbatim even.
Like you, I have also bought additional storage slots for both my bank and inventory and purchased the maximum allowed slots for each too. Simply put, I've purchased all the bank and inventory slots that Cryptic has allowed me to buy.
And still, between all the crafting resources (schematics, data samples, particle samples) and bound items (lobi, pets, mission rewards, set pieces), my bank is full. And I've deleted any and all non-essentials from my bank as well. Hell, a few weeks ago, I was forced to choose which single bound item was least valuable and delete it, in order to accommodate the 'crystalline pet' I had been rewarded from completing Crystalline Rep. And such rewards as that just keep coming and coming and coming.
Yet, we have no frakkin' room for this continuous stream of rewards!
Situation with my inventory is virtually the same. I've purchased the maximum number of inventory slots. And my inventory is also full of bound items (for myself, boffs and ships). Yet, at least with my inventory, I allow for 26 or so empty slots for a day's worth of mission loot. Heck, I'm so retentive that I have my Azure ship chip thingee placed as a marker in my inventory. Anything beyond that marker is loot, which I sell on the exchange, give to friends or rarely use myself.
Again, I've bought all the inventory slots Cryptic will allow me to buy.
Now, in closing, I want to make absolutely sure of some details regarding this stealth nerf, now that we know it is one, per some Dev's Twitter feed (idiotically underhanded way of getting the word out, btw!), before I obsessively endeavor to protest this underhanded decision like Ahab chasing his whale.
Just to be absolutely clear...is this '100' limit a limit on the overall number of messages we can store (in other words a total limit of 100 messages, each still retaining 5 attachment slots each, as opposed to the old standard of a 500 messages)? Or does this mean that the number of individual attachments per message has been reduced from 5, somehow limiting the overall number of individual attachments per mail account to 100? Or, does this mean that you can stack no more than 100 of an individual item per attachment slot within each message?
Some clarification would be greatly appreciated from anyone, especially from a dev, right here on the forums, where such critical info belongs!
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -Zefram Cochrane
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
I wish I could verify any of it in-game, but like many others I no longer have a working game because of the launcher problems and cannot even patch. I'm reluctant to even try at this point as loggin in may trigger an erasure of excess messages. Anyone else notice that official posts of any kind are suspiciously absent today ?
its not a bug; its intentional; cryptics solution to your/our problem is buy more slots
see my 1st post on the thread here sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=695071
Buying more slots is all well and good. Problem is that I've bought all the bank and inventory slots that Cryptic will allow. And, while I'm not even in a fleet, I DOFF heavily and have also purchased the 400 max of DOFF slots.
I get tired of those the white knights that will defend cryptic no matter what they do.
Perhaps my point wasn't cklear or it was the other mailing post but I have the freaking unlocks.
However doffs especially doing the recruitment all my alts take up room and having to log on each alt to check if they have what I need for a project on one of my mains in a fleet is well unacceptable both in time and frustration...
I rather not even do it or move on to another game then deal with having to do that daily if cryptic continues to stick to its guns on this proposed stealth nerf
I am not here to try to pretend that we should have unlimited mail space, if you knew what was going on you would know there was already a fair and generous mail space given to us at 500 mails with 5 per mail or whatever you wanted to put in there.
So they take us from 500x5 =2500 to 100 mails but 20x5 mail holding so we go from 2500 to 100.
If that isn't a stealth nerf of epic proportion I do not know what is.
It is not about the money wither buddy its about the ease of grabbing the doff's I need for a project on one of main's when they need it since they are near cap they have to make several trips to the mailbox as it is to get the doff's if available for a project.
I am not going to spend 1-2 hours each day checking alts to see if they are holding white doff's my main's need for a project.
You ranting on about how its a exploit is well very sad to hear, do you defend cryptic no matter what they do to us as a community or do you see all that cryptic does as all that is right and pure in this world?
I too am absolutely sick and tired of all these people that have been crying 'exploit!' Such people should seriously all gather in some remote field, like the sheep they are, and 'bahhhhhhhh! bahhhhhhh!' away and leave us reasonable folk well enough alone.
As for the DOFF problem, I'm not even in a fleet and I can easily fathom the impact of this ridiculous change. And I've never stowed away DOFFs in bank, inventory or mail. I have purchased the 400 DOFF cap limit and, given what I've read about Fleet and DOFFs, it's pretty clear that said 400 cap is not enough if I were in a Fleet.
Which leaves us all with the obvious and negative impact of what people are going to do, if this idiotic change should stick. People are going to create alts and such alts are going to unnecessarily bog down the games' already heavily burdened servers.
This whole thing is simply a mess of epic proportions and ruinously spoils any feel-good vibes that one should get from all this exciting new content we've been gifted with.
I have a dear friend, who left STO months ago, because of stealth nerfs like this one. And this is a guy who's easily spent $300+ on this game (he mostly buys ships galore). For the past couple of weeks, I've been enticing him back with all the news about LOR. Yet, when I tell him about this latest mess, later on today, any and all interest he might've had in returning is going to go poof! Guess any and all future profits Cryptic would've gained from him are also going to go poof as well.
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -Zefram Cochrane
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
Or you could do the right thing like i did ya whiners....grind up more doff slots to the 400 max, grind up all the bank and inventory space too....i did, it isn't that hard really...only took about two weeks for each of 14 toons,, two weeks,, was done...and ALOT more storage to boot, i never run out now.
I mean really, you took advantage of a broken system that was NEVER intended to be your personal bank. i know i know it was Cryptics error and they did let it go on a long time...but you really should have never thought that they would never fix it. You should have been grinding up extra storage in the mean time, knowing this was going to happen eventually. I do feel sorry for your losses, but you can't blame Cryptic for stealth patching this in (but i sorta do feel like we should have had a warning).
Actually i'm much more worried about the "delete bug" atm....i'm not posting on the exchange now until i know that bug is fixed...not going to risk losing very expensive items from them not being returned to me through the mail system (and this has already happened twice).
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
Or you could do the right thing like i did ya whiners....grind up more doff slots to the 400 max, grind up all the bank and inventory space too....i did, it isn't that hard really...only took about two weeks for each of 14 toons,, two weeks,, was done...and ALOT more storage to boot, i never run out now.
I mean really, you took advantage of a broken system that was NEVER intended to be your personal bank. i know i know it was Cryptics error and they did let it go on a long time...but you really should have never thought that they would never fix it. You should have been grinding up extra storage in the mean time, knowing this was going to happen eventually. I do feel sorry for your losses, but you can't blame Cryptic for stealth patching this in (but i sorta do feel like we should have had a warning).
Maybe they just take 6 of your toons and say the maximum is 8 per account without giving you notice.
:P
Maybe they just take 6 of your toons and say the maximum is 8 per account.
:P
lmao....i hope not dammit, those extra toon slots were actually bought with real money, not grinding them hahaha...and it would kill my favorite thing to do in the game...just Doff and bs on Doffjobs haha
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
Or you could do the right thing like i did ya whiners....grind up more doff slots to the 400 max, grind up all the bank and inventory space too....i did, it isn't that hard really...only took about two weeks for each of 14 toons,, two weeks,, was done...and ALOT more storage to boot, i never run out now.
I mean really, you took advantage of a broken system that was NEVER intended to be your personal bank. i know i know it was Cryptics error and they did let it go on a long time...but you really should have never thought that they would never fix it. You should have been grinding up extra storage in the mean time, knowing this was going to happen eventually. I do feel sorry for your losses, but you can't blame Cryptic for stealth patching this in (but i sorta do feel like we should have had a warning).
you really missed the point of our complaint. we were using this broken system (magic mailbox) to cover for another system (starbase doff imbalance).
Many of us go through hundreds of doffs a day if not more just to cover the imbalance in the starbase system we have been complaining about for months and ignored. We were using the mailbox to store excess doffs until their values could be normalized or we could eventually use them, or at least spread them to other fleets. Instead of a simple fix for the doff requirements (balance them with the drop-rates at least); we get badly made stealth nerf that breaks the only tool that let the majority of fleets make any real progress
lmao....i hope not dammit, those extra toon slots were actually bought with real money, not grinding them hahaha...and it would kill my favorite thing to do in the game...just Doff and bs on Doffjobs haha
So were the keys I bought for opening the lockboxes the doff packs, ships and consoles I attached to distribute to other toons. Not all of us grind doffs, I've never ground one. IF I had any warning this was coming (as well as a working launcher) I could've removed my attached lockbox ships and consoles but I fear they may be gone now.
So were the keys I bought for opening the lockboxes the doff packs, ships and consoles I attached to distribute to other toons. Not all of us grind doffs, I've never ground one. IF I had any warning this was coming (as well as a working launcher) I could've removed my attached lockbox ships and consoles but I fear they may be gone now.
No, actually i understand your complaint over the starbase doff costs. We have a small fleet of 5 active players building our starbase and embassy. It's slow going but we knew it would be (Tier 2 in both). But the starbase system wasn't meant to be done "right now" kind of thing, your the one who has put yourself in your predictament, your trying to rush what was never intended to be rushed in the first place, therefore it got you in a pickle, and made you feel like you had to finish it at all costs right now....that was/is your mistake in thinking, not mine.
And as for you possible losing items, i do feel for that, but then, you should have been grinding bank, inventory and doff space long ago....its free to do that in game you know??
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
Comments
If you use something in a way the devs didn't design it to be used or think it would be used in that way it is an exploit. Exploits aren't always about cheating to gain an advantage. Using another game as an example, WoW before the shattering had parts of the map that were not meant to be reachable. People found ways to get to these areas including GM island. There was no advantage to this nor gain of anything however it was still an exploit and was even punishable.
It is suprising they didn't change this earlier given that they do charge for extra bank space and extra DOFF slots. Just because something has been that way for a certain length of time does not mean it will not change or should stay that way. I was suprised at the mail systems unlimited storage use when I came here as I am used to time restrictions where mail would be deleted after 30 days with attachements or without. They were effectively losing money because of this.
On the DOFF for projects issue maybe they should make a DOFF repositroy at the star base where the DOFFs can be stored until there is enough for the project. This should be free and unlimited however the restriction would be that any put in there can not be retrieved by players.
On BOFFs we need to be able to put them in the bank and even to move them about in our inventory. This would reduce the mail use as storage in this area. This is the only reason I use mail as storage if I could put them in my bank I wouldn't use the mail system for it.
Wall of text about being surprised this has been like this for 3 years and exists in almost every mmorpg? Yeah QQ somewhere else and quit trolling me :P
QQ I am not QQing I am looking at it from their side of the argument. However if it does turn out to be a bug as the mail system is messed up at the moment I won't complain and if it does turn out to be intended then I will have to adapt to it as will we all. What we need, and I haven't see it so if it is posted then point me to it, is confirmation one way or the other from some one at Cryptic.
I did say I think they need to put in some sort of DOFF storage into star bases as they need a lot of them to do the projects which to be fair should not be used to force people to buy more slots individually. If I personally wanted more DOFFs then yes I should pay for the extra slots.
I have not played alot of MMOs but the ones I have played do have limits on the mail system to stop it being used as extra storage space. That is what I was used to, so yes I was suprised it was unlimited when I came here. However just because something has been that way for a long time does not mean it will not be changed. After all look at the complaints about the change to the leadership trait.
BUT WE CAN'T. Faced with the complete IMPOSSIBILITY of doing so, the only option left is to spam mule accounts to hold daily starbase food rations on.
Understand that we don't actually *WANT* to store thousands of doffs this way. The system FORCES it to be done this way because there is simply no alternative to keeping around thousands of doffs nobody actually personally wants!
Why was this not documented and published before release?
Many of my buddies who have played this game for years and years lost a ton of expensive stuff without warning. I have not being playing as long, so I am not personally impacted as much, but this release without warning is just awful.
To the people who want to argue that folks should have not used the mail this way, the point is being missed. This major change should have been widely published before release so players can make adjustments.
This Power Trip Nerfing has got to stop. Crytpic needs to stop knee jerking the MMO economy like this. You should make subtle changes and document/publish, not a major system change without notification before release.
Where is Branflakes, Stahl, and the dev team on this topic? :mad:
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Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
However, items above and beyond the limit are apparently supposed to unspool progressively as you make room. So it sounds like any attachments aren't lost, just locked out until you clear space (once they resolve the deletion bug).
STO twitter post
and one from Brandon himself "The mail was never intended to be an infinite amount of space
Why nerf what was already in place for so long?
Because a quality of life exploit is still an exploit. And I have to imagine the amount of ether-stored stuff was wreaking havoc on the databases,.
I have most of main main and alts at 400 of 400 doff and I still never have the room mind you most are blue/purple officers already and holding white doffs for starbase projects on top of that well let just stay I do not have the room.
Nor do I want to spend all day on another alt made for holding more white officers trying to see if that character has what my main need for a starbase project.
You've got no idea WTF you're talking about. The asset tag used for an item you attach to a message is smaller than the text of the message. 5 attached items is likely smaller than 75 characters.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I don't doubt that was a consideration
And that might be relevant if people were only storing one mail's worth of items.
I also store bound items there like the all but useless Phoenix & Crystal Shard pets. And, Borg Neural Processors, Lobi Crystals, Romulan Radiation Reports, and Glowing Plants. These should just be counted like Omega Marks. It's stupid and wasteful that we have to devote bank slots to them.
I like to keep my character inventory as clear as possible to pick up all of the loot from missions. I have to hold it until I can sell it at Earth Space Dock or the Exchange. I'm not interested in disposing at the Replicator for less energy credits. That leaves the mail for short and long term storage of items that I will need soon. Furthermore, I store commodities, components, samples, hypos, batteries, etc, that I use on a regular basis and replenish when they are running out.
How are mails counted that I sent to @handle? I did not specify a character so any of my characters could access it. Now, with this new hindsight, I wish I had not done that. Does that count as 100 for all them, or can I have 100 for each of them?
If we can't delete emails, then it's unfair to have a 500 mail limit. My inbox is piling up with item sold emails and item exchange sale expired emails (with no item attached).
If you want to sell more bank, inventory, and shared bank slots, LOWER THEIR PRICES! Also, increase the caps for those that want to purchase more slots.
So do the math, it's not that hard. 500 messages with no text and 5 attachments (I'm assuming 16 chars per attachment) vs 500 messages with 250 characters in text box.
Think about it, when you email someone about an awesome video you saw on youtube, are you sending them the video or link to the video ? The in-game attachments are links, so very little space is actually used on the servers or your PC.
The issue here is it was done without warning / discussion or even acknowledgement that it was even done . I'm just hoping it's a bug connected with the other mail issue as I'm sure I'm not the only one who will lose hundreds of millions of EC if this is actually a stealth attachment grab. I've got cash purchases attached to some mail messages.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
its not a bug; its intentional; cryptics solution to your/our problem is buy more slots
see my 1st post on the thread here sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=695071
However doffs especially doing the recruitment all my alts take up room and having to log on each alt to check if they have what I need for a project on one of my mains in a fleet is well unacceptable both in time and frustration...
I rather not even do it or move on to another game then deal with having to do that daily if cryptic continues to stick to its guns on this proposed stealth nerf.
Perhaps my point wasn't cklear or it was the other mailing post but I have the freaking unlocks.
However doffs especially doing the recruitment all my alts take up room and having to log on each alt to check if they have what I need for a project on one of my mains in a fleet is well unacceptable both in time and frustration...
I rather not even do it or move on to another game then deal with having to do that daily if cryptic continues to stick to its guns on this proposed stealth nerf
I am not here to try to pretend that we should have unlimited mail space, if you knew what was going on you would know there was already a fair and generous mail space given to us at 500 mails with 5 per mail or whatever you wanted to put in there.
So they take us from 500x5 =2500 to 100 mails but 20x5 mail holding so we go from 2500 to 100.
If that isn't a stealth nerf of epic proportion I do not know what is.
It is not about the money wither buddy its about the ease of grabbing the doff's I need for a project on one of main's when they need it since they are near cap they have to make several trips to the mailbox as it is to get the doff's if available for a project.
I am not going to spend 1-2 hours each day checking alts to see if they are holding white doff's my main's need for a project.
You ranting on about how its a exploit is well very sad to hear, do you defend cryptic no matter what they do to us as a community or do you see all that cryptic does as all that is right and pure in this world?
I can understand them not wanting Mail to be a secondary bank, but they should've realized there is a DOFF storage problem and that they should've provided us a legitimate way to store DOFFs for Starbase Projects, without forcing us to sacrifice our character DOFF space for it.
Which now forces us to either:
Buy alt characters slots, and buy 400 DOFF limits on those alts
Or
Taking advantage of the Free Accounts and create DOFF storage without needing to use money or Zen.
Dunno about you, but the later alterative is more appealing. And this is worse off for Cryptic than the mail storage problem, because they are losing even more server space and not generating any revenue.
So they should either undo the new Mail limits or provide us a legitimate DOFF Storage for Fleet Projects, without Fleet Projects being active.
First off, thank you Tarrennis for saving me some time and already having pretty much written what I might have, virtually verbatim even.
Like you, I have also bought additional storage slots for both my bank and inventory and purchased the maximum allowed slots for each too. Simply put, I've purchased all the bank and inventory slots that Cryptic has allowed me to buy.
And still, between all the crafting resources (schematics, data samples, particle samples) and bound items (lobi, pets, mission rewards, set pieces), my bank is full. And I've deleted any and all non-essentials from my bank as well. Hell, a few weeks ago, I was forced to choose which single bound item was least valuable and delete it, in order to accommodate the 'crystalline pet' I had been rewarded from completing Crystalline Rep. And such rewards as that just keep coming and coming and coming.
Yet, we have no frakkin' room for this continuous stream of rewards!
Situation with my inventory is virtually the same. I've purchased the maximum number of inventory slots. And my inventory is also full of bound items (for myself, boffs and ships). Yet, at least with my inventory, I allow for 26 or so empty slots for a day's worth of mission loot. Heck, I'm so retentive that I have my Azure ship chip thingee placed as a marker in my inventory. Anything beyond that marker is loot, which I sell on the exchange, give to friends or rarely use myself.
Again, I've bought all the inventory slots Cryptic will allow me to buy.
Now, in closing, I want to make absolutely sure of some details regarding this stealth nerf, now that we know it is one, per some Dev's Twitter feed (idiotically underhanded way of getting the word out, btw!), before I obsessively endeavor to protest this underhanded decision like Ahab chasing his whale.
Just to be absolutely clear...is this '100' limit a limit on the overall number of messages we can store (in other words a total limit of 100 messages, each still retaining 5 attachment slots each, as opposed to the old standard of a 500 messages)? Or does this mean that the number of individual attachments per message has been reduced from 5, somehow limiting the overall number of individual attachments per mail account to 100? Or, does this mean that you can stack no more than 100 of an individual item per attachment slot within each message?
Some clarification would be greatly appreciated from anyone, especially from a dev, right here on the forums, where such critical info belongs!
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
I too am absolutely sick and tired of all these people that have been crying 'exploit!' Such people should seriously all gather in some remote field, like the sheep they are, and 'bahhhhhhhh! bahhhhhhh!' away and leave us reasonable folk well enough alone.
As for the DOFF problem, I'm not even in a fleet and I can easily fathom the impact of this ridiculous change. And I've never stowed away DOFFs in bank, inventory or mail. I have purchased the 400 DOFF cap limit and, given what I've read about Fleet and DOFFs, it's pretty clear that said 400 cap is not enough if I were in a Fleet.
Which leaves us all with the obvious and negative impact of what people are going to do, if this idiotic change should stick. People are going to create alts and such alts are going to unnecessarily bog down the games' already heavily burdened servers.
This whole thing is simply a mess of epic proportions and ruinously spoils any feel-good vibes that one should get from all this exciting new content we've been gifted with.
I have a dear friend, who left STO months ago, because of stealth nerfs like this one. And this is a guy who's easily spent $300+ on this game (he mostly buys ships galore). For the past couple of weeks, I've been enticing him back with all the news about LOR. Yet, when I tell him about this latest mess, later on today, any and all interest he might've had in returning is going to go poof! Guess any and all future profits Cryptic would've gained from him are also going to go poof as well.
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
I mean really, you took advantage of a broken system that was NEVER intended to be your personal bank. i know i know it was Cryptics error and they did let it go on a long time...but you really should have never thought that they would never fix it. You should have been grinding up extra storage in the mean time, knowing this was going to happen eventually. I do feel sorry for your losses, but you can't blame Cryptic for stealth patching this in (but i sorta do feel like we should have had a warning).
Actually i'm much more worried about the "delete bug" atm....i'm not posting on the exchange now until i know that bug is fixed...not going to risk losing very expensive items from them not being returned to me through the mail system (and this has already happened twice).
Maybe they just take 6 of your toons and say the maximum is 8 per account without giving you notice.
:P
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
lmao....i hope not dammit, those extra toon slots were actually bought with real money, not grinding them hahaha...and it would kill my favorite thing to do in the game...just Doff and bs on Doffjobs haha
you really missed the point of our complaint. we were using this broken system (magic mailbox) to cover for another system (starbase doff imbalance).
Many of us go through hundreds of doffs a day if not more just to cover the imbalance in the starbase system we have been complaining about for months and ignored. We were using the mailbox to store excess doffs until their values could be normalized or we could eventually use them, or at least spread them to other fleets. Instead of a simple fix for the doff requirements (balance them with the drop-rates at least); we get badly made stealth nerf that breaks the only tool that let the majority of fleets make any real progress
So were the keys I bought for opening the lockboxes the doff packs, ships and consoles I attached to distribute to other toons. Not all of us grind doffs, I've never ground one. IF I had any warning this was coming (as well as a working launcher) I could've removed my attached lockbox ships and consoles but I fear they may be gone now.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
No, actually i understand your complaint over the starbase doff costs. We have a small fleet of 5 active players building our starbase and embassy. It's slow going but we knew it would be (Tier 2 in both). But the starbase system wasn't meant to be done "right now" kind of thing, your the one who has put yourself in your predictament, your trying to rush what was never intended to be rushed in the first place, therefore it got you in a pickle, and made you feel like you had to finish it at all costs right now....that was/is your mistake in thinking, not mine.
And as for you possible losing items, i do feel for that, but then, you should have been grinding bank, inventory and doff space long ago....its free to do that in game you know??