ohh im sure the designed the mail system to be storage so people would not have to buy added storage space.
im not a troll just sometimes people say some of the dumbest things and I have to sound off. and again I see a federation avatar goes to my original statement its the fed types that have no honor at all. and resulting to calling me stupid because I have a little moral integrity and am not an intellectual property thief . thereby making me dumb for some reason because I didn't think of doing it. instead of spending real money that I made with my real world business that I apparently have not the brains to run. to pay for the added storage space I require in a GAME.
Did you really just equate my forum avatar with my stance on poor business practices and then say you aren't a troll? Wow, you actually did.
I insinuated you weren't bright based on the statements you made, and here you are proving my point for me. Using mail as storage is not theft of intellectual property, it is using a system that had wide ranging parameters in a fashion that is allowed for by the system itself, this is evidenced by the original 500 item cap placed on mail storage.
As to your statement regarding running a business, I have my doubts about the credibility of the existence of said business, but I shall let that slide. What I will point out however is my original statement which you overlooked in your zealous rush to defend your "moral integrity".
I clearly stated that if this change is a shift of design paradigm on Cryptics part, then it would be wise of them to allow players to purchase more than the current and extremely limited number of bank/account bank/inventory slots with a further possibility of them either reducing the cost of the current slot packs, or increasing the number received per purchase.
I cannot possibly put it any more clearly than that, so I will just have to hope you have the cognitive capacity to understand. I wish you luck.
Is it wrong, that I'm enjoying the butthurt of those crying because they are losign their free storage?
And yes, it was an exploit. You were using a game system in a way it was not intended. Not all exploits require bugs or "hacks".
Nope your not wrong at all....they were exploiting a system in game to avoid paying for what they should have paid for in the first place..looks like they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar finally...
And for those whining about losing all your starbase doffs that you've been hoarding forever? Starbases were never designed to be done fast, and you using everyway you can find to try to circumvent the starbase system is just wrong.
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
Did you really just equate my forum avatar with my stance on poor business practices and then say you aren't a troll? Wow, you actually did.
I insinuated you weren't bright based on the statements you made, and here you are proving my point for me. Using mail as storage is not theft of intellectual property, it is using a system that had wide ranging parameters in a fashion that is allowed for by the system itself, this is evidenced by the original 500 item cap placed on mail storage.
As to your statement regarding running a business, I have my doubts about the credibility of the existence of said business, but I shall let that slide. What I will point out however is my original statement which you overlooked in your zealous rush to defend your "moral integrity".
I clearly stated that if this change is a shift of design paradigm on Cryptics part, then it would be wise of them to allow players to purchase more than the current and extremely limited number of bank/account bank/inventory slots with a further possibility of them either reducing the cost of the current slot packs, or increasing the number received per purchase.
I cannot possibly put it any more clearly than that, so I will just have to hope you have the cognitive capacity to understand. I wish you luck.
do you think the game owners changing the storage space offered for free to players when they can charge you for that space is a big issue and will drive people away.
what about the LTS people that bought it before the game went free to play? they really had a huge policy change shoved down their throats.
these people spent allot of money on the lic rights for the game. as long as the game is fun people will play it not matter what they change just because we have absolutely no alternative if you are a trek fan.
keep calling me stupid all you want. it matters not. ill never convince you that using a system to reason it was not intended to be used for is indeed an exploit look up the word maybe your confused I don't know. and you sure will not ever convince me that you are right in doing it . even if this is a glich and the game continues to allow it.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Nope your not wrong at all....they were exploiting a system in game to avoid paying for what they should have paid for in the first place..looks like they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar finally...
And for those whining about losing all your starbase doffs that you've been hoarding forever? Starbases were never designed to be done fast, and you using everyway you can find to try to circumvent the stabase system is just wrong.
why is it that the romulans are the only others that can see this ????
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
do you think the game owners changing the storage space offered for free to players when they can charge you for that space is a big issue and will drive people away.
what about the LTS people that bought it before the game went free to play? they really had a huge policy change shoved down their throats.
these people spent allot of money on the lic rights for the game. as long as the game is fun people will play it not matter what they change just because we have absolutely no alternative if you are a trek fan.
keep calling me stupid all you want. it matters not. ill never convince you that using a system to reason it was not intended to be used for is indeed an exploit look up the word maybe your confused I don't know. and you sure will not ever convince me that you are right in doing it . even if this is a glich and the game continues to allow it.
If this game had not gone Free-to-play, those Lifetime Subscribers would not have a game to play at all. It went Free-to-play in order to keep it going, and thus changes had to be made to the business model.
This brings me to my second point, which you clearly did not understand from my previous post so I shall make a last ditch attempt to simplify it for you. Ready?
Pre-LOR system:
Mail has 500 item limit.
Mail has no time limit.
Bank/Account Bank/Inventory Slots are capped.
The above are facts.
Post-LOR:
Mail has 100 item limit.
Mail has no time limit. Bank/Account Bank/Inventory Slots are capped.
As things stand, the above are also facts.
Now here is the difficult part for you it seems. My point was that as the system for storing items in the mail has changed, but the very important part I highlighted above has not, if this new 100 item in the mail change is to stay, Cryptic may want to consider removing the cap on the above highlighted items.
People do not want to have to create new characters just to then buy more bank slots. This is inefficient and time consuming for the player, and just as importantly it is inefficient and not cost effective for Cryptic. The most effective method, should this change be purposeful and permanent, would be to consider lifting the bank slot cap, thus encouraging people to spend a little more money. Got it? I hope so.
I also do not need to convince you of anything, the facts are there as plain as the rather large nose on my face; The original system, as it was designed, had a 500 item limit with indefinite storage time. Those two facts prove what I and others are saying is true. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant, a fact is a fact is a fact.
I hope this super-simplified version of my previous post helps you to understand my point of view. If not, here is a nice cookie.
I dont think anyone can really be that surprised by this change. They charge for extra space, but this was somewhat meaningless because you could just put everything in the mail. At the same time though, I really really do not think this should be a ninja nerf, especially if the mails expire or if expired exchange stuff wont go through. It is not like people who put tons of stuff in their mail were doing anything wrong, as the game simply allowed us to do this. If they want to make this stop, they should give everyone a reasonable chance to clear out inventory. I guess I am mostly worried about exchange mails coming back and not getting them back. It would be really annoying if the mails expired too, as sometimes you just put stuff in mail and dont need it for a while, ie, I accidentally bought 1500 Astrometric probes, similar with encoded data, as well as various refugees I would like to use when I find the right missions.
I guess the bottom line is I am asking for Cryptic to clarify what the rules of the new mail system are, so that everybody can use the mail system without having nasty surprises of losing stuff.
Nope your not wrong at all....they were exploiting a system in game to avoid paying for what they should have paid for in the first place..looks like they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar finally...
And for those whining about losing all your starbase doffs that you've been hoarding forever? Starbases were never designed to be done fast, and you using everyway you can find to try to circumvent the starbase system is just wrong.
Storing DOFF's does not, in any way, speed up the process of building a Starbase or Embassy. That is controlled, at its core, by the timers built into the projects.
If this game had not gone Free-to-play, those Lifetime Subscribers would not have a game to play at all. It went Free-to-play in order to keep it going, and thus changes had to be made to the business model.
This brings me to my second point, which you clearly did not understand from my previous post so I shall make a last ditch attempt to simplify it for you. Ready?
Pre-LOR system:
Mail has 500 item limit.
Mail has no time limit.
Bank/Account Bank/Inventory Slots are capped.
The above are facts.
Post-LOR:
Mail has 100 item limit.
Mail has no time limit. Bank/Account Bank/Inventory Slots are capped.
As things stand, the above are also facts.
Now here is the difficult part for you it seems. My point was that as the system for storing items in the mail has changed, but the very important part I highlighted above has not, if this new 100 item in the mail change is to stay, Cryptic may want to consider removing the cap on the above highlighted items.
People do want to have to create new characters just to then buy more bank slots. This is inefficient and time consuming for the player, and just as importantly it is inefficient and not cost effective for Cryptic. The most effective method, should this change be purposeful and permanent, would be to consider lifting the bank slot cap, thus encouraging people to spend a little more money. Got it? I hope so.
I also do not need to convince you of anything, the facts are there as plain as the rather large nose on my face; The original system, as it was designed, had a 500 item limit with indefinite storage time. Those two facts prove what I and others are saying is true. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant, a fact is a fact is a fact.
I hope this super-simplified version of my previous post helps you to understand my point of view. If not, here is a nice cookie.
Hmm, we don't need you to "simplify" anything for us...i will disagree with anyone who thinks it's "ok" to exploit any system.
I have no idea how many toons you have, or if you are f2p or not, but that Fact remains you are expoliting a system to Your advantage....tsk tsk and shame shame
"If everyone used Macs, we'd be working on how to get to Alpha Centauri rather than how to get to Mars."
I do believe doff storage was addressed also that's why I have 5 toons that hold 400 doffs each. 2 at 200 toon and 2 with no upgrades yet. now if you have 3 toons with the 400 max doff slots that's 1200 doffs how can that not be enough ? and if it is not buy more slots on another toon . their is a system in place for storeage of your items already.
Do you honestly think people are going to buy Character Slots, then buy 400 DOFF slots to act as a storage? The only people that would, are those who have money to burn.
So why waste 4000 Zen, when you can create tons of Alt Accounts for free?
I clearly stated that if this change is a shift of design paradigm on Cryptics part, then it would be wise of them to allow players to purchase more than the current and extremely limited number of bank/account bank/inventory slots with a further possibility of them either reducing the cost of the current slot packs, or increasing the number received per purchase.
Back when I was relatively new to this game, I was at wits end about inventory/bank capacity, because I had purchased the maximum number of bank and inventory slots and those maximum allotments were clearly not enough to accommodate the dirge of bound items and required schematics, data and particle samples for crafting, let alone items for personal, BOFF and ship customization.
At that point in time, I was rather excited about the expanded storage offered by 'account shared bank' slots and even spent some cash on zen, in anticipation of said additional slots. I recall the delay of the release of that feature well, as I was constantly harping on news of its release.
Yet, upon that feature's release, I was deeply put off by the ridiculous cost per slot allotment and equally put off by the account bank's limit.
My fellow forum mates implored me to chill and simply use the already established system of mail storage. So, I did so, along with virtually every experienced player in this game.
That said, if there were no limits on purchasing inventory and bank slots, I would surely have purchased more slots, beyond the current maximum limits per account/character. And I should stress that I've only ever had one account and character. Though I'm bound to create a Klingon and Romulan as well, eventually.
Seems that the word is out about the mailing-it-to-yourself = infinite free storage space and doff depository.
This system has been in place for ages now. What's more, there's a pretty obvious indicator that the mail system was specifically designed to accommodate sending attached items to oneself. That indicator being when you type your address in the 'send to' box, it instantly grants the option of auto-filling your character name and account name. Does anyone really think the devs included that auto-fill feature so that we could send conversational messages to ourselves???!!!
keep calling me stupid all you want. it matters not. ill never convince you that using a system to reason it was not intended to be used for is indeed an exploit look up the word maybe your confused I don't know. and you sure will not ever convince me that you are right in doing it . even if this is a glich and the game continues to allow it.
Pretty much with Donutsmasher on his contentions about you being a mindless troll. You evidently can't spell properly, let alone capitalize and punctuate your sentences. For that matter, if you see no problem with this mail storage glitch/potential stealth nerf, then kindly leave this thread to those of us who reasonably and rightly view this as a massive and troublesome blunder on Cryptic's part.
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -Zefram Cochrane
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
Hmm, we don't need you to "simplify" anything for us...i will disagree with anyone who thinks it's "ok" to exploit any system.
I have no idea how many toons you have, or if you are f2p or not, but that Fact remains you are expoliting a system to Your advantage....tsk tsk and shame shame
At present I have 5 characters on a Lifetime subscription and am also considering purchasing the Legacy pack before it goes up in price, not that I understand what my account status has to do with this.
Judging by your response, my simplification was not simple enough as you still seem to be operating under the false assumption that the pre-LOR system was being exploited. One cannot exploit a system by using it as it was designed, in much the same way as I cannot use a napkin as a parachute.
Well, given the silence on the devs part... hopefully it's a bug they don't want to admit until they have a solution. Of course, given how long they took to respond to the EP2X changes (quite reasonably they wanted to make a final decision before posting), it could be entirely intentional and they just haven't decided if they broke anything or if they really like what they've accomplished.
Honestly, why do the devs bother "fixing" quality of life items like mailbox storage and the (now extinct) dilithium store sales tab? The main reason I keep letting the Lifetime Subscription sales pass by is that something always seems to crop up with new content; nothing that truly breaks game, but more of a continual trend towards making gameplay more inconvenient.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
..." if you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin' "......not that I think using the mail system is cheating mind you.....I wouldn't go so far as to call it an "exploit" since, at least I'm not aware, of anyone suffering negative effects of the system pre-LoR.......although I am puzzled by people "taking sides" since...yeah changing something without informing both parties(at least in my work) usually pisses off the unprepared party, regardless of what contracts(EULA is this case) say.....so is it illegal or ilmoral?......I have my own opinions....but for Big C to nerf it pisses me off........
So I'll ask a stupid question do other MMO's suffer this problem?
Hmm, we don't need you to "simplify" anything for us...i will disagree with anyone who thinks it's "ok" to exploit any system.
I have no idea how many toons you have, or if you are f2p or not, but that Fact remains you are expoliting a system to Your advantage....tsk tsk and shame shame
The "feature" of using mail as a extra bank space is not an "exploit". An exploit is a design flaw you use to you're advantage. Since the mail system has worked this way for the last 3 years it isn't an "exploit", so quit acting like you are some sort of moral watermark because you didn't take advantage of a feature 99.9% of the playerbase did. I can further prove to you this isn't an "exploit" because per forum rules, you can't discuss ANYTHING in regards to an exploit in posts, trust me I know. So if this was an "exploit" you could count on one of the the forum mods to have already closed this post down and 4 pages of posters would be getting nasty emails from the head honcho.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."-Commander William Adama
I just filed a support ticket about this and see what response I get. I think everyone who cares about this should file one to let Cryptic know this is not something they should remove.
It's not reasonable at all. The game drops so much junk, stacks are small, and storage space is limited. When you compose a message it helpfully tells you how to mail to yourself. When you place attachments you get no warning at all about limits. It is clearly NOT an exploit, and is a common practice. I have stuff in my mail that I probably don't need anymore, but you never regret NOT discarding an item (except maybe a tribble). What difference does it make? Does it really use resources? I have stacks of lockboxes that I may get around to opening - that a problem?
But then again, it's not the first time a major nerf was not communicated to Cryptic's customers...
some of the first responders said the same
Given thats its exactly 100 items; I have little doubt that it is intentional. I am sure it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes because DEVs never mention anything they consider a exploit being fixed (double dipping dilithium mining, various foundry exploits, the d-store buyback vendor)
Again though, while the mailbox could be considered an exploit, it was filling a role that cannot be filled another way except by making an army of mule accounts
Yeah I can agree with most that this bank issue is not an exploit and is the main juncture in which majority of the player base has had to use to store items since Cryptic pumps out new items all the time but never addresses storage problems from their practices.
So I believe personally this should be reverted back until a legitimate and reasonable solution is found. Not only is it bad for starbase progression the end result will be people making 100's of accounts and clogging up the servers to work around this. Not only that but as well the exchange will be flooded with all the civilian and science doffs which are already seemingly low. Not trying to bash cryptic but they thought this worked great for neverwinter which is still in its infancy and hasn't been running for 3+ years.
Given thats its exactly 100 items; I have little doubt that it is intentional. I am sure it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes because DEVs never mention anything they consider a exploit being fixed (double dipping dilithium mining, various foundry exploits, the d-store buyback vendor)
Again though, while the mailbox could be considered an exploit, it was filling a role that cannot be filled another way except by making an army of mule accounts
Regarding the business of this problem being rooted in a 100 attachment mail limit (akin to that of Neverwinter, as has been suggested), I have a nagging suspicion that all this is nothing more than an unforeseen glitch in STO's code or somesuch, which has resulted from all the recent melding of Neverwinter game assets with STO game assets. After all, we've already been told that a good many of LOR's changes to STO have been directly influenced by developments with Neverwinter (new UIs, new character creator, the sparkling consoles thing instituted months ago and such). That said, sadly, we all know all too well how often Cryptic has a tendency to fall prey to game-breaking glitches, likely due to the proverbial right hand not having a clue as to what the left hand is doing. So, there's still good reason to hope this is nothing more than an unexpected glitch and shall be remedied soon.
As for your false assumption that the long established and intentionally designed 500 message mail limit is or was an exploit, I kindly refer you to the following thread, which discusses this whole issue in greater detail: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=697471&page=5
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -Zefram Cochrane
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
Has a cryptic representative weighed in on this yet?
Will items being returned from the exchange be deleted without warning or explanation?
This is an extremely serious issue.
Repetitiveepic, I would suggest that someone post about this worrisome problem in the 'Gameplay Bug Reports' section of this forum, with a clear subject line (perhaps 'Mail Attachments Broken' or somesuch), along with a clearly stated description of this problem itself. Oh, and direct links to this thread and others like it might also be helpful.
It may very well be that, with all the harping and crowing everywhere about broken stuff throughout this game, since Tuesday's launch of LOR, that the Devs might be currently unaware of this issue. And might be confining their attentions to the 'Support' sections of this forum.
I would post such a thread in the 'Gameplay Bug Reports' section myself, but I haven't even attempted logging into STO since the day before LOR's launch. So, I haven't witnessed this mail bug myself. And I absolutely refuse to so much as think of logging in again, until issues such as this one and others like it have been properly addressed and remedied.
"Don't try to be a great man. Just be a man and let history make its own judgments." -Zefram Cochrane
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
I wasn't anywhere near reaching 100 items, even across all character exchange & mail boxes... but my mail & exchange are both broken.
I list items on the exchange, but they can't be purchased (or even seen). Inbox messages can't be deleted; some of the returned exchange item messages are empty.
:eek:
Without an accountant, I can't be sure... but I'd guess I lost a few million credits since yesterday.
I've also been receiving empty exchange return mails, so as of right now I'm removing all high-value items from the exchange until reasonably assured they won't disappear into the void.
Yeah I can agree with most that this bank issue is not an exploit and is the main juncture in which majority of the player base has had to use to store items since Cryptic pumps out new items all the time but never addresses storage problems from their practices.
So I believe personally this should be reverted back until a legitimate and reasonable solution is found. Not only is it bad for starbase progression the end result will be people making 100's of accounts and clogging up the servers to work around this. Not only that but as well the exchange will be flooded with all the civilian and science doffs which are already seemingly low. Not trying to bash cryptic but they thought this worked great for neverwinter which is still in its infancy and hasn't been running for 3+ years.
If you use something in a way the devs didn't design it to be used or think it would be used in that way it is an exploit. Exploits aren't always about cheating to gain an advantage. Using another game as an example, WoW before the shattering had parts of the map that were not meant to be reachable. People found ways to get to these areas including GM island. There was no advantage to this nor gain of anything however it was still an exploit and was even punishable.
It is suprising they didn't change this earlier given that they do charge for extra bank space and extra DOFF slots. Just because something has been that way for a certain length of time does not mean it will not change or should stay that way. I was suprised at the mail systems unlimited storage use when I came here as I am used to time restrictions where mail would be deleted after 30 days with attachements or without. They were effectively losing money because of this.
On the DOFF for projects issue maybe they should make a DOFF repositroy at the star base where the DOFFs can be stored until there is enough for the project. This should be free and unlimited however the restriction would be that any put in there can not be retrieved by players.
On BOFFs we need to be able to put them in the bank and even to move them about in our inventory. This would reduce the mail use as storage in this area. This is the only reason I use mail as storage if I could put them in my bank I wouldn't use the mail system for it.
If you use something in a way the devs didn't design it to be used or think it would be used in that way it is an exploit. Exploits aren't always about cheating to gain an advantage. Using another game as an example, WoW before the shattering had parts of the map that were not meant to be reachable. People found ways to get to these areas including GM island. There was no advantage to this nor gain of anything however it was still an exploit and was even punishable.
It is suprising they didn't change this earlier given that they do charge for extra bank space and extra DOFF slots. Just because something has been that way for a certain length of time does not mean it will not change or should stay that way. I was suprised at the mail systems unlimited storage use when I came here as I am used to time restrictions where mail would be deleted after 30 days with attachements or without. They were effectively losing money because of this.
On the DOFF for projects issue maybe they should make a DOFF repositroy at the star base where the DOFFs can be stored until there is enough for the project. This should be free and unlimited however the restriction would be that any put in there can not be retrieved by players.
On BOFFs we need to be able to put them in the bank and even to move them about in our inventory. This would reduce the mail use as storage in this area. This is the only reason I use mail as storage if I could put them in my bank I wouldn't use the mail system for it.
Wall of text about being surprised this has been like this for 3 years and exists in almost every mmorpg? Yeah QQ somewhere else and quit trolling me :P
Wall of text about being surprised this has been like this for 3 years and exists in almost every mmorpg? Yeah QQ somewhere else and quit trolling me :P
QQ I am not QQing I am looking at it from their side of the argument. However if it does turn out to be a bug as the mail system is messed up at the moment I won't complain and if it does turn out to be intended then I will have to adapt to it as will we all. What we need, and I haven't see it so if it is posted then point me to it, is confirmation one way or the other from some one at Cryptic.
I did say I think they need to put in some sort of DOFF storage into star bases as they need a lot of them to do the projects which to be fair should not be used to force people to buy more slots individually. If I personally wanted more DOFFs then yes I should pay for the extra slots.
I have not played alot of MMOs but the ones I have played do have limits on the mail system to stop it being used as extra storage space. That is what I was used to, so yes I was suprised it was unlimited when I came here. However just because something has been that way for a long time does not mean it will not be changed. After all look at the complaints about the change to the leadership trait.
They were effectively losing money because of this.
No they weren't. Because if we *COULD* buy extra doff slots to store the *540* daily required doffs, we might have: It's a hell of a lot less hassle than stashing them into your MAILBOX 5 at a time.
BUT WE CAN'T. Faced with the complete IMPOSSIBILITY of doing so, the only option left is to spam mule accounts to hold daily starbase food rations on.
Understand that we don't actually *WANT* to store thousands of doffs this way. The system FORCES it to be done this way because there is simply no alternative to keeping around thousands of doffs nobody actually personally wants!
Comments
Did you really just equate my forum avatar with my stance on poor business practices and then say you aren't a troll? Wow, you actually did.
I insinuated you weren't bright based on the statements you made, and here you are proving my point for me. Using mail as storage is not theft of intellectual property, it is using a system that had wide ranging parameters in a fashion that is allowed for by the system itself, this is evidenced by the original 500 item cap placed on mail storage.
As to your statement regarding running a business, I have my doubts about the credibility of the existence of said business, but I shall let that slide. What I will point out however is my original statement which you overlooked in your zealous rush to defend your "moral integrity".
I clearly stated that if this change is a shift of design paradigm on Cryptics part, then it would be wise of them to allow players to purchase more than the current and extremely limited number of bank/account bank/inventory slots with a further possibility of them either reducing the cost of the current slot packs, or increasing the number received per purchase.
I cannot possibly put it any more clearly than that, so I will just have to hope you have the cognitive capacity to understand. I wish you luck.
Sig by my better half.
Nope your not wrong at all....they were exploiting a system in game to avoid paying for what they should have paid for in the first place..looks like they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar finally...
And for those whining about losing all your starbase doffs that you've been hoarding forever? Starbases were never designed to be done fast, and you using everyway you can find to try to circumvent the starbase system is just wrong.
do you think the game owners changing the storage space offered for free to players when they can charge you for that space is a big issue and will drive people away.
what about the LTS people that bought it before the game went free to play? they really had a huge policy change shoved down their throats.
these people spent allot of money on the lic rights for the game. as long as the game is fun people will play it not matter what they change just because we have absolutely no alternative if you are a trek fan.
keep calling me stupid all you want. it matters not. ill never convince you that using a system to reason it was not intended to be used for is indeed an exploit look up the word maybe your confused I don't know. and you sure will not ever convince me that you are right in doing it . even if this is a glich and the game continues to allow it.
why is it that the romulans are the only others that can see this ????
If this game had not gone Free-to-play, those Lifetime Subscribers would not have a game to play at all. It went Free-to-play in order to keep it going, and thus changes had to be made to the business model.
This brings me to my second point, which you clearly did not understand from my previous post so I shall make a last ditch attempt to simplify it for you. Ready?
Pre-LOR system:
Mail has 500 item limit.
Mail has no time limit.
Bank/Account Bank/Inventory Slots are capped.
The above are facts.
Post-LOR:
Mail has 100 item limit.
Mail has no time limit.
Bank/Account Bank/Inventory Slots are capped.
As things stand, the above are also facts.
Now here is the difficult part for you it seems. My point was that as the system for storing items in the mail has changed, but the very important part I highlighted above has not, if this new 100 item in the mail change is to stay, Cryptic may want to consider removing the cap on the above highlighted items.
People do not want to have to create new characters just to then buy more bank slots. This is inefficient and time consuming for the player, and just as importantly it is inefficient and not cost effective for Cryptic. The most effective method, should this change be purposeful and permanent, would be to consider lifting the bank slot cap, thus encouraging people to spend a little more money. Got it? I hope so.
I also do not need to convince you of anything, the facts are there as plain as the rather large nose on my face; The original system, as it was designed, had a 500 item limit with indefinite storage time. Those two facts prove what I and others are saying is true. Whether you like this or not is irrelevant, a fact is a fact is a fact.
I hope this super-simplified version of my previous post helps you to understand my point of view. If not, here is a nice cookie.
Sig by my better half.
I guess the bottom line is I am asking for Cryptic to clarify what the rules of the new mail system are, so that everybody can use the mail system without having nasty surprises of losing stuff.
Storing DOFF's does not, in any way, speed up the process of building a Starbase or Embassy. That is controlled, at its core, by the timers built into the projects.
Sig by my better half.
Hmm, we don't need you to "simplify" anything for us...i will disagree with anyone who thinks it's "ok" to exploit any system.
I have no idea how many toons you have, or if you are f2p or not, but that Fact remains you are expoliting a system to Your advantage....tsk tsk and shame shame
Do you honestly think people are going to buy Character Slots, then buy 400 DOFF slots to act as a storage? The only people that would, are those who have money to burn.
So why waste 4000 Zen, when you can create tons of Alt Accounts for free?
Back when I was relatively new to this game, I was at wits end about inventory/bank capacity, because I had purchased the maximum number of bank and inventory slots and those maximum allotments were clearly not enough to accommodate the dirge of bound items and required schematics, data and particle samples for crafting, let alone items for personal, BOFF and ship customization.
At that point in time, I was rather excited about the expanded storage offered by 'account shared bank' slots and even spent some cash on zen, in anticipation of said additional slots. I recall the delay of the release of that feature well, as I was constantly harping on news of its release.
Yet, upon that feature's release, I was deeply put off by the ridiculous cost per slot allotment and equally put off by the account bank's limit.
My fellow forum mates implored me to chill and simply use the already established system of mail storage. So, I did so, along with virtually every experienced player in this game.
That said, if there were no limits on purchasing inventory and bank slots, I would surely have purchased more slots, beyond the current maximum limits per account/character. And I should stress that I've only ever had one account and character. Though I'm bound to create a Klingon and Romulan as well, eventually.
This system has been in place for ages now. What's more, there's a pretty obvious indicator that the mail system was specifically designed to accommodate sending attached items to oneself. That indicator being when you type your address in the 'send to' box, it instantly grants the option of auto-filling your character name and account name. Does anyone really think the devs included that auto-fill feature so that we could send conversational messages to ourselves???!!!
Pretty much with Donutsmasher on his contentions about you being a mindless troll. You evidently can't spell properly, let alone capitalize and punctuate your sentences. For that matter, if you see no problem with this mail storage glitch/potential stealth nerf, then kindly leave this thread to those of us who reasonably and rightly view this as a massive and troublesome blunder on Cryptic's part.
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
At present I have 5 characters on a Lifetime subscription and am also considering purchasing the Legacy pack before it goes up in price, not that I understand what my account status has to do with this.
Judging by your response, my simplification was not simple enough as you still seem to be operating under the false assumption that the pre-LOR system was being exploited. One cannot exploit a system by using it as it was designed, in much the same way as I cannot use a napkin as a parachute.
Sig by my better half.
Honestly, why do the devs bother "fixing" quality of life items like mailbox storage and the (now extinct) dilithium store sales tab? The main reason I keep letting the Lifetime Subscription sales pass by is that something always seems to crop up with new content; nothing that truly breaks game, but more of a continual trend towards making gameplay more inconvenient.
So I'll ask a stupid question do other MMO's suffer this problem?
The "feature" of using mail as a extra bank space is not an "exploit". An exploit is a design flaw you use to you're advantage. Since the mail system has worked this way for the last 3 years it isn't an "exploit", so quit acting like you are some sort of moral watermark because you didn't take advantage of a feature 99.9% of the playerbase did. I can further prove to you this isn't an "exploit" because per forum rules, you can't discuss ANYTHING in regards to an exploit in posts, trust me I know. So if this was an "exploit" you could count on one of the the forum mods to have already closed this post down and 4 pages of posters would be getting nasty emails from the head honcho.
some of the first responders said the same
Given thats its exactly 100 items; I have little doubt that it is intentional. I am sure it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes because DEVs never mention anything they consider a exploit being fixed (double dipping dilithium mining, various foundry exploits, the d-store buyback vendor)
Again though, while the mailbox could be considered an exploit, it was filling a role that cannot be filled another way except by making an army of mule accounts
So I believe personally this should be reverted back until a legitimate and reasonable solution is found. Not only is it bad for starbase progression the end result will be people making 100's of accounts and clogging up the servers to work around this. Not only that but as well the exchange will be flooded with all the civilian and science doffs which are already seemingly low. Not trying to bash cryptic but they thought this worked great for neverwinter which is still in its infancy and hasn't been running for 3+ years.
Regarding the business of this problem being rooted in a 100 attachment mail limit (akin to that of Neverwinter, as has been suggested), I have a nagging suspicion that all this is nothing more than an unforeseen glitch in STO's code or somesuch, which has resulted from all the recent melding of Neverwinter game assets with STO game assets. After all, we've already been told that a good many of LOR's changes to STO have been directly influenced by developments with Neverwinter (new UIs, new character creator, the sparkling consoles thing instituted months ago and such). That said, sadly, we all know all too well how often Cryptic has a tendency to fall prey to game-breaking glitches, likely due to the proverbial right hand not having a clue as to what the left hand is doing. So, there's still good reason to hope this is nothing more than an unexpected glitch and shall be remedied soon.
As for your false assumption that the long established and intentionally designed 500 message mail limit is or was an exploit, I kindly refer you to the following thread, which discusses this whole issue in greater detail:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=697471&page=5
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
Repetitiveepic, I would suggest that someone post about this worrisome problem in the 'Gameplay Bug Reports' section of this forum, with a clear subject line (perhaps 'Mail Attachments Broken' or somesuch), along with a clearly stated description of this problem itself. Oh, and direct links to this thread and others like it might also be helpful.
It may very well be that, with all the harping and crowing everywhere about broken stuff throughout this game, since Tuesday's launch of LOR, that the Devs might be currently unaware of this issue. And might be confining their attentions to the 'Support' sections of this forum.
I would post such a thread in the 'Gameplay Bug Reports' section myself, but I haven't even attempted logging into STO since the day before LOR's launch. So, I haven't witnessed this mail bug myself. And I absolutely refuse to so much as think of logging in again, until issues such as this one and others like it have been properly addressed and remedied.
Vice-Admiral Methos Corinthian
methos71
I list items on the exchange, but they can't be purchased (or even seen). Inbox messages can't be deleted; some of the returned exchange item messages are empty.
:eek:
Without an accountant, I can't be sure... but I'd guess I lost a few million credits since yesterday.
If you use something in a way the devs didn't design it to be used or think it would be used in that way it is an exploit. Exploits aren't always about cheating to gain an advantage. Using another game as an example, WoW before the shattering had parts of the map that were not meant to be reachable. People found ways to get to these areas including GM island. There was no advantage to this nor gain of anything however it was still an exploit and was even punishable.
It is suprising they didn't change this earlier given that they do charge for extra bank space and extra DOFF slots. Just because something has been that way for a certain length of time does not mean it will not change or should stay that way. I was suprised at the mail systems unlimited storage use when I came here as I am used to time restrictions where mail would be deleted after 30 days with attachements or without. They were effectively losing money because of this.
On the DOFF for projects issue maybe they should make a DOFF repositroy at the star base where the DOFFs can be stored until there is enough for the project. This should be free and unlimited however the restriction would be that any put in there can not be retrieved by players.
On BOFFs we need to be able to put them in the bank and even to move them about in our inventory. This would reduce the mail use as storage in this area. This is the only reason I use mail as storage if I could put them in my bank I wouldn't use the mail system for it.
Wall of text about being surprised this has been like this for 3 years and exists in almost every mmorpg? Yeah QQ somewhere else and quit trolling me :P
QQ I am not QQing I am looking at it from their side of the argument. However if it does turn out to be a bug as the mail system is messed up at the moment I won't complain and if it does turn out to be intended then I will have to adapt to it as will we all. What we need, and I haven't see it so if it is posted then point me to it, is confirmation one way or the other from some one at Cryptic.
I did say I think they need to put in some sort of DOFF storage into star bases as they need a lot of them to do the projects which to be fair should not be used to force people to buy more slots individually. If I personally wanted more DOFFs then yes I should pay for the extra slots.
I have not played alot of MMOs but the ones I have played do have limits on the mail system to stop it being used as extra storage space. That is what I was used to, so yes I was suprised it was unlimited when I came here. However just because something has been that way for a long time does not mean it will not be changed. After all look at the complaints about the change to the leadership trait.
BUT WE CAN'T. Faced with the complete IMPOSSIBILITY of doing so, the only option left is to spam mule accounts to hold daily starbase food rations on.
Understand that we don't actually *WANT* to store thousands of doffs this way. The system FORCES it to be done this way because there is simply no alternative to keeping around thousands of doffs nobody actually personally wants!