Fact is, those many testers you speak of are PvErs, and well, yeah, everything is effective in pve. You can do an ESTF in an NX...or a shuttle.
Oh yeah? Well, I can do EST without turning my computer on! I simulate doing ISE solo without any ship at all! With a graphing calculator! While PVPing as an entire team on five different computers and beating all the best players in the game by myself! While dead!
:rolleyes: People just can't resist the bragging, can they? Even when it doesn't make sense Yeah, you can beat an ESTF with four people flying real ships and one flying a shuttle or whatever. That's no different than beating it with just four people, which happens all the time because people's drop. Which I'm sure is something the missions are built with in mind. Sheesh.
I'm going to fly the ship. If it gets a turn rate increase, that's super. If not, I'll learn to deal, just like everyone else who flies it.
Fine there, too, the metagame just hasn't caught up to it yet.
Just because it has battle cloak doesn't mean it should be flown like a BoP, just because it has DHC's doesn't mean it should be flown like an escort, and just because it has a cruiser's hull and turn rate doesn't mean it should be flown like one of those either.
meta game hasn't caught up yet? the metagames moves at the speed of changes, and is perfectly aligned with what actually effective. all these ways you mentain its not supposed to be flown, your not leaving it a single effective way it can be flown.
people that are inexperienced, and i guess kinda humble about it, are ignorant enough to assume that theres a way for everything that the masses complain about to be flown just fine. it isn't the case, and the more experience and knowledge you have, the less likely you are to blurt out oh thats fine, you all just need to change your play style, its you not the ship. to me, thats a tell. of someone who is not qualified to make any sort of judgement call about any of that.
the margins for everything that actually works are very thin. some stat issues can be forgiven because they are made up something else. some stats can be lower then average without making a ship nonviable. sometimes theres an opportunity cost to fix a ships issues so that it can perform at a basic level, but that compensation has massive damning opportunity costs that make it wholly inferior to other options. other stats, if they are simply too low, ruin a ship utterly, so its not even possible to make it ok.
the d'deridex and bortas are good examples of that last description. how well the bortas sold and how often it is used is in the history books now. theres no debating that that ship was a failure. of sure, you can pull off an impressive alpha stirke, same thing with the galaxy X. but guess what? those 1 trick ponies are a joke, and get laughed out of any team play, they serve no purpose, other then hunting loaners in cap and holds. the d'deridex will be joining those ranks as it is. of the 3, it will be the best for its ability to actually position for a decloak 10 times better then those other 2, but beyond that, it will still be a terrible ship. spending the vast majority of its time not able to do anything, wile any other war bird in its place can be fighting well the entire time.
The D'deridex is underperforming at Captain rank and it's unlikely to get better at max. It's very much like the Galaxy-Enterprise.
You don't want to fly that in PvP, not even in a team based around compensating its shortcoming.
On Tribble people could/can test it. The Mogai you get before an the Ha'feh you get after the D'deridex totally trash it, no matter what setup you try.
What flavour justifys that Romulan ships turn slower than Klingon or Federation equivalents?
From the shows we know that small ships with a hingh poer warpcore are harder to hide under cloak (DS9: "The Search").
And the Romulan ships pretty much dwarf their counterparts.
The Mogai is actually the size of the Negh'var for example.
So it seems pretty simple: Klingons build a good fighting platform and slap a cloak on.
The Romulans build their ships around their cloaking devices.
Oh yeah? Well, I can do EST without turning my computer on! I simulate doing ISE solo without any ship at all! With a graphing calculator! While PVPing as an entire team on five different computers and beating all the best players in the game by myself! While dead!
:rolleyes: People just can't resist the bragging, can they? Even when it doesn't make sense Yeah, you can beat an ESTF with four people flying real ships and one flying a shuttle or whatever. That's no different than beating it with just four people, which happens all the time because people's drop. Which I'm sure is something the missions are built with in mind. Sheesh.
I'm going to fly the ship. If it gets a turn rate increase, that's super. If not, I'll learn to deal, just like everyone else who flies it.
It is not really bragging. It is stating a fact that ESTFs aren't hard.
For months when I started playing, I had heard how they were the end game, hardest thing to do, sort of thing. I was actually a little intimidated to actually try one. I watched videos of people doing them, and it seemed you needed endless amounts of cooperation to even attempt them.
Then I tried one,
I had spent months and months tweaking my build and ships for pvp. It turns out that a pvp build is WAY overkill for ESTFs.
You think its bragging, but honestly its not. I have done hundreds of them by now and I can count on one hand the amount of people who actually know how to use their ship.
People who die to the gate, or a tac cube or even a standard cube just astound me. Dieing to one once a map or so is no big deal, as we all make mistakes. But the people who die 4, 5, 6 times in one STF....it happens every time I play one and I can't comprehend why.
But then I see comments in threads like this (not necessarily yours) where people are saying this ship's turn is fine, and it all makes sense. The vast majority of people are simply content with a fraction of their potential.
Fix the turn rate for the D'Deridex, It is so bad, it's the greatest ship in startrek history and it's unplayable because of the turn.
I just fitted a Warbird once i had reached Commander. That ship turns slower than the Galaxy Class, so if anyone has any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated.
How many more insults can you jam pack into one post? Yet none of it changes the facts.
Fact: You don't enjoy turning slow.
Fact: You don't enjoy the D'Deridex because it turns slow.
That has nothing to do with the ship's effectiveness. Just your own enjoyment of it.
Many testers have told you in this very thread that the ship is effective.
I get it. You don't enjoy it. But that isn't a strong enough reason to change the ship. As those same testers have told you, to get the upped turn rate, it will lose other things in a tradeoff. Most likely get a BOFF setup that you won't enjoy.
At this point just count your losses and fly something else.
The JHAS has enough engineering capability that it doesn't really matter. It's the best ship in the game for what you find enjoyable. Not my fault that you act like a medieval monk and flagellate yourself by flying something you thoroughly dislike when you can easily switch to something that does everything you want to do in a fun, easy, enjoyable manner.
Fact its not effective. Its TRIBBLE.
Fact its the only Romulan ship at Tier 4.
Fact People have been playing Escorts up until it.
Fact It never should have been given the same turn rate as a Carrier.
Can people play it?
Yes
Does that mean we should?
No
Is there anything that makes up for its weaknesses?
Not really, because it means sacrificing other things to make up for them.
Do we have another choice for Romulans?
Not if we want to fly a Romulan ship...
So no we have to fly the TRIBBLE turn rate battlecruiser, because otherwise we won't be Romulans...
Fact its not effective. Its TRIBBLE.
Fact its the only Romulan ship at Tier 4.
Fact People have been playing Escorts up until it.
Fact It never should have been given the same turn rate as a Carrier.
Can people play it?
Yes
Does that mean we should?
No
Is there anything that makes up for its weaknesses?
Not really, because it means sacrificing other things to make up for them.
Do we have another choice for Romulans?
Not if we want to fly a Romulan ship...
So no we have to fly the TRIBBLE turn rate battlecruiser, because otherwise we won't be Romulans...
Fact escorts are not king L2P
Fact its turn rate is fine, dont play it like a escort
I will play it, it handles fine once again...L2P or use a diferent ship
sacraficing other things??? LMAO L2P...battle cloak increases your turn rate..what are you sacraficing there? Evasive manuevers enhances turn...once again sacrafice what?
Use attack pattern omega 1 for the ltc tac slot...fixxed
use auxilliary to intertial dampners...fixxed
Theres no other romulan ships eh? Ya your forced to fly the Big D if you want to be Romulan...k
Redo your skills and strategies or just go back to escorts after 10 levels
the ship is fine the way it is, I can solo elite tac cubes with it on test just fine
when i played the d'd during open beta i had no problems maneuvering and finding my target no matter how quickly it was going because i always played smart vs the NPC's. its not the worst ship i have ran across at all, even the carrier can be a beast by playing smart with not only the right use of captain skills, but boff layout and skills as well a bit of opportunistic last second thinking if needed.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Fact its not effective. Its TRIBBLE.
Fact its the only Romulan ship at Tier 4.
Fact People have been playing Escorts up until it.
Fact It never should have been given the same turn rate as a Carrier.
Can people play it?
Yes
Does that mean we should?
No
Is there anything that makes up for its weaknesses?
Not really, because it means sacrificing other things to make up for them.
Do we have another choice for Romulans?
Not if we want to fly a Romulan ship...
So no we have to fly the TRIBBLE turn rate battlecruiser, because otherwise we won't be Romulans...
You should learn to exploit it's strengths rather than ignorign their existence.
Fact escorts are not king L2P
Fact its turn rate is fine, dont play it like a escort
I will play it, it handles fine once again...L2P or use a diferent ship
sacraficing other things??? LMAO L2P...battle cloak increases your turn rate..what are you sacraficing there? Evasive manuevers enhances turn...once again sacrafice what?
Use attack pattern omega 1 for the ltc tac slot...fixxed
use auxilliary to intertial dampners...fixxed
Theres no other romulan ships eh? Ya your forced to fly the Big D if you want to be Romulan...k
Redo your skills and strategies or just go back to escorts after 10 levels
the ship is fine the way it is, I can solo elite tac cubes with it on test just fine
Perhaps read some other posts before replying would be beneficial, since you seem to be missing the whole point about the ship's lackluster pvp potential.
You don't need much more than a 1 turn rate to solo tac cubes. Pve is not the issue in question, but rather its effectiveness in pvp, as has been stated many times here.
Asking for a slightly higher is not asking for it to handle like an escort, as has been stated many times here.
Your solutions don't fix the underlying problem as other ships can employ those same skills for a much better result.
It is fine for pve, as everything is. For pvp, the turn just makes the ship a poor contender.
Thank you for these shots. could you blow them up bigger so i can see the names of your equipment?
lol nothing special i just reran the rom story arcs at lvl 50 to get upgraded stuff and the sets for tholian rep you can get at ds9
the cannons got from the vendor at new rom command their white ix plasma dhc's, netronium 9's a green and blue shield cap enhancer and 2 plasma tac consoles
Perhaps read some other posts before replying would be beneficial, since you seem to be missing the whole point about the ship's lackluster pvp potential.
You don't need much more than a 1 turn rate to solo tac cubes. Pve is not the issue in question, but rather its effectiveness in pvp, as has been stated many times here.
Asking for a slightly higher is not asking for it to handle like an escort, as has been stated many times here.
Your solutions don't fix the underlying problem as other ships can employ those same skills for a much better result.
It is fine for pve, as everything is. For pvp, the turn just makes the ship a poor contender.
I have read every single post at least twice. This thread is one of my main keep an eyes on, why CAUSE THE D IS FINE...stop trying to apply what you know ingame currently to the warbirds, they dont fly, the same, if they did we wouldnt have battle cloak
For pvp purposes it handles fine, infact the only issues ive seen it really have from my end with testing my own fleet has done is against the sci vessels with their cloak finding, it keeps the ship from dropping right ontop of the enemy and taking it down in 2 shots, it can be done almost against the escorts and cruisers, sci on the other hand, not as effective, course im not running purple stealth consoles and the higher singularity build up the easier it is to find the ship
but, she makes up for it where her sheer armor/hull
with a ltc tac slot, and a ltc sci slot the ship is very damn versatile as a cruiser LIKE vessel and can have alot of interesting build set ups
Its a matter of getting use to the ship as she is, increasing the turn rate will only decrease other areas...prime example...vesta, she was bantered around so much in design it almost broke the ship completly...and all because of PVP
News Flash this game isnt solely for pvp, if it was all the end game content would focus around that and not stfs, fleet actions, fleet mark missions, romulan mark missions, the CE
PVP imo should never be considered a factor for balance, balance is a word that should be weighed very carefully in any subject topic, if it doesnt work in pvp dont use it, theres other ships. Or as I had stated before, try learning some new and unorthodox tactics for the ship, shes not a fed cruiser nor kdf battle cruiser...she is ...a ...WARBIRD
You didn't obviously read this one at all, its on page 17
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot
people that are inexperienced, and i guess kinda humble about it, are ignorant enough to assume that theres a way for everything that the masses complain about to be flown just fine. it isn't the case, and the more experience and knowledge you have, the less likely you are to blurt out oh thats fine, you all just need to change your play style, its you not the ship. to me, thats a tell. of someone who is not qualified to make any sort of judgement call about any of that.
The entire post was awesome.
The D'Deridex is NOT fine, its not going to be fine as it currently is.
However, to anyone who thinks it is fine, great, be fine with it.
Get it, play it enjoy it.
The rest of us know that as it is, one the novelty wears off this ship is not going to see much play.
The Galaxy is an iconic Star Trek ship
...and a Star Trek 'Online' failure, especially the Galaxy-X
We would like Cryptic not to do the same thing to the D'Deridex.
But the way it currently is, its just not a viable ship.
Ok, everybody saying the D'Deridex is fine, then by your same logic, the Galaxy and Bortas are fine too. And we see those all over the place, right? Oh wait, no we don't. Because they're ****.
Ok, everybody saying the D'Deridex is fine, then by your same logic, the Galaxy and Bortas are fine too. And we see those all over the place, right? Oh wait, no we don't. Because they're ****.
You could always fly one of the other Romulan battlecruisers. There's three to choose from. One of them has to mirror the Excelsior that you want the Romulans to have, right?
You didn't obviously read this one at all, its on page 17
The entire post was awesome.
The D'Deridex is NOT fine, its not going to be fine as it currently is.
However, to anyone who thinks it is fine, great, be fine with it.
Get it, play it enjoy it.
The rest of us know that as it is, one the novelty wears off this ship is not going to see much play.
The Galaxy is an iconic Star Trek ship
...and a Star Trek 'Online' failure, especially the Galaxy-X
We would like Cryptic not to do the same thing to the D'Deridex.
But the way it currently is, its just not a viable ship.
Yep I read it, dont judge because of what I say, Judge by what I do, and what I do is call you people out, there I said it.
IT IS FINE
its not the galaxy or galaxy-x, but guess what I see people do fly them, the reason not in great numbers isnt because they suck, its because the endgame is DPS PEW PEW I WIN SHIPS
It handles just peachy, as I have stated SEVERAL TIMES, relearn the mecahinics of the warbirds, they ARE NOT FED OR KDF SHIPS
Tactics must be changed, builds must be changed, because its not the same bloody cookie cutter ship as whats already ingame and what some are comfortable with doesnt mean it needs to be changed, get out of the comfort zone and try to learn it from a new approach.
Bortas isnt used alot because its not a carrier, its true, id say a good 40% of the kdf faction is carrier based in some fashion, its the kdfs bread and butter honest, I tend to like the battle cruisers as well so I go back and forth, The bortas, was not appealing to many like the oddy, everyone seems to think that fast wins...there is this age old tale about a rabbit and a turtle...
The whole debate truly is the fact that PVP wants it to be something its not meant to be but cant seem to wrap around this idea. I can safely make a bet and say the D'Deridex in its current form will see a steady usage. Will it be the most used ship, nope, its not PEW PEW enough for most children who live off of ADD in today's world. But it will most likely be around 30% of the ships seen floating around, maybe 25% wich honestly is good considering many will use the tvaro or mogai as well, all in all there is only 4 ships that truly grab the interest of many romulan fans and us fans will use those ships, adapt, and overcome any shortgivings they might have, or percieved to have.
Anyone who disagrees can do so its a free game, choose what you want to fly but dont impose change because you dont understand the mechanics, its the same thing since mmos came out, class A is better than Class B in PVP so I shall cry hard and loud till my Class B is better even tho it is me who should change not the Class B.
You could always fly one of the other Romulan battlecruisers. There's three to choose from. One of them has to mirror the Excelsior that you want the Romulans to have, right?
There's three? I thought there was only 2? D'deridex, Ha'....something or other. What's the third?
Ok, everybody saying the D'Deridex is fine, then by your same logic, the Galaxy and Bortas are fine too. And we see those all over the place, right? Oh wait, no we don't. Because they're ****.
there is way more wrong with the galaxy then just the turn rate main it;s 2 tac consoles and it's over engineer bloated layout
and i see on averaget 1 bortas in every STF i join way more then galaxies
Warbirds, Federation Starships, Klingon Battleships, they are all governed by the same rules of the game.
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot
the margins for everything that actually works are very thin. some stat issues can be forgiven because they are made up something else. some stats can be lower then average without making a ship nonviable. sometimes theres an opportunity cost to fix a ships issues so that it can perform at a basic level, but that compensation has massive damning opportunity costs that make it wholly inferior to other options. other stats, if they are simply too low, ruin a ship utterly, so its not even possible to make it ok.
the d'deridex and bortas are good examples of that last description...
The stats are the D'Deridex have been put there by Cryptic
The chances of getting them changed are already small.
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot
but guess what? those 1 trick ponies are a joke, and get laughed out of any team play
This includes PvE team play.
If you like this ship as it is, you're getting what you want. Be happy.
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot
but beyond that, it will still be a terrible ship. spending the vast majority of its time not able to do anything, wile any other warbird in its place can be fighting well the entire time.
If that is the style you want to play, yes, its just fine.
The rest of us really want the D'Deridex to be an incredible boon, and profitable to Cryptic.
And the Bortas did NOT sell well, not an opinion, Cryptic has stated this.
And as a similar ship, for similar reasons, the D'Deridex will NOT be, because it is fundamentally flawed.
I think there's a huge misconception that everyone asking for a small increase in the turn rate are pvpers and/or escort players. I've never pvped, and until there are some major changes to it that actually make it interesting I probably never will. I'm also not someone stuck on escorts escorts escorts and a dps fanatic.
I am a simple player that loves the D'deridex and think it only needs a slight tweak of 1-2 points max added to the turn rate. I don't want to have to rely on cloaking every time to be able to turn, but I don't want sci or escort speeds either like some are suggesting.
Would adding 1-2 points to the turn rate really break anything? If it would I'd love to know what because I've been playing this game since F2P launch and I honestly can't think of one thing such a minor increase would affect.
they wont change it because it should turn worse then the galaxy, because. because its bigger i guess. just ignore that the cylindrical body ha'apax, which is NOT all hollow out, has that huge solid section, and a longer wing span, has that same 5 turn rate. going off size, that thing should have a .5 turn rate. that ship proboly has about 10 times the volume and mass of the d'deridex. that huge, thick, solid, section would displace a huge amount of space.
and you can split it into 2/3 and 1/3. the 2/3 section has TWICE the d'deridex's turn rate, and the 1/3 section has more then 3 times the turn rate. even though both section has many times more volume then the d'deridex.
WHY? because they cant allow an escort to suck, or a sci ship, its not ok for them to suck. they cant go below a certain suck threshold, only cruisers can. different rules and double standards for everything, and those rules oppress cruisers, because they are large, and theres not a single good thing about being large in this game.
well they are large so they cant turn! that makes sense right? to bad we built a game were turn rate is everything, and made DHCs the only energy weapon that deals more then a net of 0 damage in practice. we seriously made cruisers have beam weapons only as powerful as beam weapons you find on shuttles. we are insane enough to think that all that size and power generation and array length doesn't mean anything, and tiny escorts can pull 4 times as much firepower out of nowhere. thats the game we built, on purpose even.
never mind that nothing but DPS maters in pve, or that only spiky damage matters in pvp. team healing can be handled by all the wonderful hybrid sci/sci ships, because they can move about and react so much more easily. cruisers, and even more so eng captains, have been systematically pushed out of the game. power creep, and the uselessness eng captains bring to a team, and the need for nuke and spike growing with every new bit of power creep sees to that.
so, we are left with sci ships, escorts, and cruisers that can be escort replacements. a cruiser you can fly like an escort. people might not realize it, but when they say the d'deridex is not fine, its becase they cant fly it like a KDF, escort replacing, battle cruiser. thats a cruiser thats still effective. releasing a cruiser now, thats not like that, means your releasing a fail ship, as things stand now. we all like the d'deridex, we want to use it, but it cant be used like a battle cruiser, and theirs no effective alternative use for it. really. its not me, or us. there isn't this other ways it can be used so its fine. ive been trying to find these other ways for a long time, and every bit of new power creep makes any other way work less and less. because any other way is dealing pressure damage, and thats net effect of 0 damage, now.
and theres not a single good thing about being large in this game.
WRONG! Cruisers get a few thousand more hull hit points! This makes up for their dismal turn rate and inability to use dual heavy cannons because of their terrible bridge officer layout and the aforementioned maneuverability issues. After all, as we all know, an extra few thousand hull makes all the difference in the world! [/sarcasm]
Comments
Oh yeah? Well, I can do EST without turning my computer on! I simulate doing ISE solo without any ship at all! With a graphing calculator! While PVPing as an entire team on five different computers and beating all the best players in the game by myself! While dead!
:rolleyes: People just can't resist the bragging, can they? Even when it doesn't make sense Yeah, you can beat an ESTF with four people flying real ships and one flying a shuttle or whatever. That's no different than beating it with just four people, which happens all the time because people's drop. Which I'm sure is something the missions are built with in mind. Sheesh.
I'm going to fly the ship. If it gets a turn rate increase, that's super. If not, I'll learn to deal, just like everyone else who flies it.
meta game hasn't caught up yet? the metagames moves at the speed of changes, and is perfectly aligned with what actually effective. all these ways you mentain its not supposed to be flown, your not leaving it a single effective way it can be flown.
people that are inexperienced, and i guess kinda humble about it, are ignorant enough to assume that theres a way for everything that the masses complain about to be flown just fine. it isn't the case, and the more experience and knowledge you have, the less likely you are to blurt out oh thats fine, you all just need to change your play style, its you not the ship. to me, thats a tell. of someone who is not qualified to make any sort of judgement call about any of that.
the margins for everything that actually works are very thin. some stat issues can be forgiven because they are made up something else. some stats can be lower then average without making a ship nonviable. sometimes theres an opportunity cost to fix a ships issues so that it can perform at a basic level, but that compensation has massive damning opportunity costs that make it wholly inferior to other options. other stats, if they are simply too low, ruin a ship utterly, so its not even possible to make it ok.
the d'deridex and bortas are good examples of that last description. how well the bortas sold and how often it is used is in the history books now. theres no debating that that ship was a failure. of sure, you can pull off an impressive alpha stirke, same thing with the galaxy X. but guess what? those 1 trick ponies are a joke, and get laughed out of any team play, they serve no purpose, other then hunting loaners in cap and holds. the d'deridex will be joining those ranks as it is. of the 3, it will be the best for its ability to actually position for a decloak 10 times better then those other 2, but beyond that, it will still be a terrible ship. spending the vast majority of its time not able to do anything, wile any other war bird in its place can be fighting well the entire time.
You don't want to fly that in PvP, not even in a team based around compensating its shortcoming.
On Tribble people could/can test it. The Mogai you get before an the Ha'feh you get after the D'deridex totally trash it, no matter what setup you try.
I thought they were going with mint for LoR...
From the shows we know that small ships with a hingh poer warpcore are harder to hide under cloak (DS9: "The Search").
And the Romulan ships pretty much dwarf their counterparts.
The Mogai is actually the size of the Negh'var for example.
So it seems pretty simple: Klingons build a good fighting platform and slap a cloak on.
The Romulans build their ships around their cloaking devices.
It is not really bragging. It is stating a fact that ESTFs aren't hard.
For months when I started playing, I had heard how they were the end game, hardest thing to do, sort of thing. I was actually a little intimidated to actually try one. I watched videos of people doing them, and it seemed you needed endless amounts of cooperation to even attempt them.
Then I tried one,
I had spent months and months tweaking my build and ships for pvp. It turns out that a pvp build is WAY overkill for ESTFs.
You think its bragging, but honestly its not. I have done hundreds of them by now and I can count on one hand the amount of people who actually know how to use their ship.
People who die to the gate, or a tac cube or even a standard cube just astound me. Dieing to one once a map or so is no big deal, as we all make mistakes. But the people who die 4, 5, 6 times in one STF....it happens every time I play one and I can't comprehend why.
But then I see comments in threads like this (not necessarily yours) where people are saying this ship's turn is fine, and it all makes sense. The vast majority of people are simply content with a fraction of their potential.
And that's why Romulan ships don't turn quickly. They're mint, not cinnamon. :P
Fact its not effective. Its TRIBBLE.
Fact its the only Romulan ship at Tier 4.
Fact People have been playing Escorts up until it.
Fact It never should have been given the same turn rate as a Carrier.
Can people play it?
Yes
Does that mean we should?
No
Is there anything that makes up for its weaknesses?
Not really, because it means sacrificing other things to make up for them.
Do we have another choice for Romulans?
Not if we want to fly a Romulan ship...
So no we have to fly the TRIBBLE turn rate battlecruiser, because otherwise we won't be Romulans...
Fact escorts are not king L2P
Fact its turn rate is fine, dont play it like a escort
I will play it, it handles fine once again...L2P or use a diferent ship
sacraficing other things??? LMAO L2P...battle cloak increases your turn rate..what are you sacraficing there? Evasive manuevers enhances turn...once again sacrafice what?
Use attack pattern omega 1 for the ltc tac slot...fixxed
use auxilliary to intertial dampners...fixxed
Theres no other romulan ships eh? Ya your forced to fly the Big D if you want to be Romulan...k
Redo your skills and strategies or just go back to escorts after 10 levels
the ship is fine the way it is, I can solo elite tac cubes with it on test just fine
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
My character Tsin'xing
Pretty please
Perhaps read some other posts before replying would be beneficial, since you seem to be missing the whole point about the ship's lackluster pvp potential.
You don't need much more than a 1 turn rate to solo tac cubes. Pve is not the issue in question, but rather its effectiveness in pvp, as has been stated many times here.
Asking for a slightly higher is not asking for it to handle like an escort, as has been stated many times here.
Your solutions don't fix the underlying problem as other ships can employ those same skills for a much better result.
It is fine for pve, as everything is. For pvp, the turn just makes the ship a poor contender.
not cloaked. 10.8 turn with no buffs and only 1 rcs
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad303/moondagger/screenshot_2013-05-19-14-06-38.jpg
cloaked. 26.7 turn with no buffs and only 1 rcs
http://i946.photobucket.com/albums/ad303/moondagger/screenshot_2013-05-19-14-07-06.jpg
overall happy with it and definately a bc no changes needed that i see
lol nothing special i just reran the rom story arcs at lvl 50 to get upgraded stuff and the sets for tholian rep you can get at ds9
the cannons got from the vendor at new rom command their white ix plasma dhc's, netronium 9's a green and blue shield cap enhancer and 2 plasma tac consoles
I think you can with holo emitters?
I have read every single post at least twice. This thread is one of my main keep an eyes on, why CAUSE THE D IS FINE...stop trying to apply what you know ingame currently to the warbirds, they dont fly, the same, if they did we wouldnt have battle cloak
For pvp purposes it handles fine, infact the only issues ive seen it really have from my end with testing my own fleet has done is against the sci vessels with their cloak finding, it keeps the ship from dropping right ontop of the enemy and taking it down in 2 shots, it can be done almost against the escorts and cruisers, sci on the other hand, not as effective, course im not running purple stealth consoles and the higher singularity build up the easier it is to find the ship
but, she makes up for it where her sheer armor/hull
with a ltc tac slot, and a ltc sci slot the ship is very damn versatile as a cruiser LIKE vessel and can have alot of interesting build set ups
Its a matter of getting use to the ship as she is, increasing the turn rate will only decrease other areas...prime example...vesta, she was bantered around so much in design it almost broke the ship completly...and all because of PVP
News Flash this game isnt solely for pvp, if it was all the end game content would focus around that and not stfs, fleet actions, fleet mark missions, romulan mark missions, the CE
PVP imo should never be considered a factor for balance, balance is a word that should be weighed very carefully in any subject topic, if it doesnt work in pvp dont use it, theres other ships. Or as I had stated before, try learning some new and unorthodox tactics for the ship, shes not a fed cruiser nor kdf battle cruiser...she is ...a ...WARBIRD
The entire post was awesome.
The D'Deridex is NOT fine, its not going to be fine as it currently is.
However, to anyone who thinks it is fine, great, be fine with it.
Get it, play it enjoy it.
The rest of us know that as it is, one the novelty wears off this ship is not going to see much play.
The Galaxy is an iconic Star Trek ship
...and a Star Trek 'Online' failure, especially the Galaxy-X
We would like Cryptic not to do the same thing to the D'Deridex.
But the way it currently is, its just not a viable ship.
You could always fly one of the other Romulan battlecruisers. There's three to choose from. One of them has to mirror the Excelsior that you want the Romulans to have, right?
Yep I read it, dont judge because of what I say, Judge by what I do, and what I do is call you people out, there I said it.
IT IS FINE
its not the galaxy or galaxy-x, but guess what I see people do fly them, the reason not in great numbers isnt because they suck, its because the endgame is DPS PEW PEW I WIN SHIPS
It handles just peachy, as I have stated SEVERAL TIMES, relearn the mecahinics of the warbirds, they ARE NOT FED OR KDF SHIPS
Tactics must be changed, builds must be changed, because its not the same bloody cookie cutter ship as whats already ingame and what some are comfortable with doesnt mean it needs to be changed, get out of the comfort zone and try to learn it from a new approach.
Bortas isnt used alot because its not a carrier, its true, id say a good 40% of the kdf faction is carrier based in some fashion, its the kdfs bread and butter honest, I tend to like the battle cruisers as well so I go back and forth, The bortas, was not appealing to many like the oddy, everyone seems to think that fast wins...there is this age old tale about a rabbit and a turtle...
The whole debate truly is the fact that PVP wants it to be something its not meant to be but cant seem to wrap around this idea. I can safely make a bet and say the D'Deridex in its current form will see a steady usage. Will it be the most used ship, nope, its not PEW PEW enough for most children who live off of ADD in today's world. But it will most likely be around 30% of the ships seen floating around, maybe 25% wich honestly is good considering many will use the tvaro or mogai as well, all in all there is only 4 ships that truly grab the interest of many romulan fans and us fans will use those ships, adapt, and overcome any shortgivings they might have, or percieved to have.
Anyone who disagrees can do so its a free game, choose what you want to fly but dont impose change because you dont understand the mechanics, its the same thing since mmos came out, class A is better than Class B in PVP so I shall cry hard and loud till my Class B is better even tho it is me who should change not the Class B.
There's three? I thought there was only 2? D'deridex, Ha'....something or other. What's the third?
there is way more wrong with the galaxy then just the turn rate main it;s 2 tac consoles and it's over engineer bloated layout
and i see on averaget 1 bortas in every STF i join way more then galaxies
The stats are the D'Deridex have been put there by Cryptic
The chances of getting them changed are already small.
This includes PvE team play.
If you like this ship as it is, you're getting what you want. Be happy.
If that is the style you want to play, yes, its just fine.
The rest of us really want the D'Deridex to be an incredible boon, and profitable to Cryptic.
And the Bortas did NOT sell well, not an opinion, Cryptic has stated this.
And as a similar ship, for similar reasons, the D'Deridex will NOT be, because it is fundamentally flawed.
I am a simple player that loves the D'deridex and think it only needs a slight tweak of 1-2 points max added to the turn rate. I don't want to have to rely on cloaking every time to be able to turn, but I don't want sci or escort speeds either like some are suggesting.
Would adding 1-2 points to the turn rate really break anything? If it would I'd love to know what because I've been playing this game since F2P launch and I honestly can't think of one thing such a minor increase would affect.
and you can split it into 2/3 and 1/3. the 2/3 section has TWICE the d'deridex's turn rate, and the 1/3 section has more then 3 times the turn rate. even though both section has many times more volume then the d'deridex.
WHY? because they cant allow an escort to suck, or a sci ship, its not ok for them to suck. they cant go below a certain suck threshold, only cruisers can. different rules and double standards for everything, and those rules oppress cruisers, because they are large, and theres not a single good thing about being large in this game.
well they are large so they cant turn! that makes sense right? to bad we built a game were turn rate is everything, and made DHCs the only energy weapon that deals more then a net of 0 damage in practice. we seriously made cruisers have beam weapons only as powerful as beam weapons you find on shuttles. we are insane enough to think that all that size and power generation and array length doesn't mean anything, and tiny escorts can pull 4 times as much firepower out of nowhere. thats the game we built, on purpose even.
never mind that nothing but DPS maters in pve, or that only spiky damage matters in pvp. team healing can be handled by all the wonderful hybrid sci/sci ships, because they can move about and react so much more easily. cruisers, and even more so eng captains, have been systematically pushed out of the game. power creep, and the uselessness eng captains bring to a team, and the need for nuke and spike growing with every new bit of power creep sees to that.
so, we are left with sci ships, escorts, and cruisers that can be escort replacements. a cruiser you can fly like an escort. people might not realize it, but when they say the d'deridex is not fine, its becase they cant fly it like a KDF, escort replacing, battle cruiser. thats a cruiser thats still effective. releasing a cruiser now, thats not like that, means your releasing a fail ship, as things stand now. we all like the d'deridex, we want to use it, but it cant be used like a battle cruiser, and theirs no effective alternative use for it. really. its not me, or us. there isn't this other ways it can be used so its fine. ive been trying to find these other ways for a long time, and every bit of new power creep makes any other way work less and less. because any other way is dealing pressure damage, and thats net effect of 0 damage, now.
WRONG! Cruisers get a few thousand more hull hit points! This makes up for their dismal turn rate and inability to use dual heavy cannons because of their terrible bridge officer layout and the aforementioned maneuverability issues. After all, as we all know, an extra few thousand hull makes all the difference in the world! [/sarcasm]