Found the ship to fly pretty much how you'd expect it to fly. It?s not a tiny little Escort or Mogai Warbird it?s a huge ship by comparison to Say the both the Federations Galaxy class or Sovereign class. Think its turn rate is more than accurate to its size.
A base 10 turn rate is worth the laughter. The ship was tweaked. It IS effective as it currently stands. Many testers say as much.
But now people want MOAR!
Nor should it be. And now you know why I'm laughing so much. Because it's not an issue. But people want a base 10 turn anyways!
That doesn't make you chuckle even just a little?
How's the ship fly for you on Tribble right now? Pretty good right? It's got some game right? It can do some kick butt things right?
Or is it useless unless it gets its base turn rate doubled?
I routinley out parse escorts in STFs in a Bortasqu using DHC, it has same turn rate, and I think worse inertia, and doesn't get a battle cloak turn buff, also do pvp with it and usually am top in damage, most targets don't last long enough to get out of my firing arc. D'D will be slightly easier then Bortasqu once I get to try it fully geared out at level 50, only have tried the level 30 version so far and it was manageable enough without good gear or spec.
Maybe there needs to be some kind of big ship piloting tutorial or guide someone could make or something in pvp bootcamp, its not hard once you learn the tricks and practice.
That said maybe all worst turning ships could get boosted by 1, I could agree with something like this as long as no other stats get taken away and it might make the ship appeal to more.
Found the ship to fly pretty much how you'd expect it to fly. It?s not a tiny little Escort or Mogai Warbird it?s a huge ship by comparison to Say the both the Federations Galaxy class or Sovereign class. Think its turn rate is more than accurate to its size.
How 'bout a turn rate of 7 to match the Ambassador? Still nowhere near the turn rate of Escorts, so those twitchy tweakers won't feel their e-peen is threatened, but enough to make it still fun to fly.
I don't get where you get this notion of turn rate is not needed.......
Oh wait. Do you spend your time fighting borg?
Ooook. I get it. Pfft yeah in that regard you are right, who needs turn?
Now, have you actually tested the ship in pvp, as many of the people complaining about the turn have?
I have to wonder if you are experienced in pvp at all using low turn ships, it is totally different from using a bop or escort. If not, you are not a PVPer as far as big ships are concerned.
I kill people all the time and routinely end up with total damage 1mil+ and top kills using a Bortasqu with DHC, 1 other guy in my fleet is able to do this also. I took out a bug ship piloted by a kerrat regular 1v1 without even having to start out cloaked, reason being is once I tractored him after his omega was on CD, he didn't last long enough for the tractor to expire and him to be able to get out of my arc. I was able to just tank him until I saw the oppourtunity to killl his manuverablity, then quickly evasives and omega to his arc and kill him in seconds afterwards. PVE I out parse escorts all the time, I am almost always on target when I need to be. This ship is as hard, if not harder to pilot then a D'D.
Anyway there are all kind of techniques you can use to compensate for bad turn, also you can play to the strengths most ships with bad turn get like better surviablility, and a boff layout that has room for lots of movement buffs like EPTE and Aux2ID.
Jesus man, read the *** damn post. 8 to 10 turn is not escort level, is it?
If size is your comparison, why don't you go look at the MVAE size compared to the Heavy Cruiser. Should then the cruiser have almost half the turn?
Wasnt Trying to Say anything about the turn rates of the ship. My Point was it feels fine the way it is. It dosnt need to be made to turn faster was the point of my post. I fly cruisers on the Fed and Kdf and have done since game launch and in beta in 2010. So for me I dont have a problem with slow turning ships which the D'D should be.
And if want to bring up the matter of the Advanced Escort or MVA Escort as the Cstore model aka Prometheus class. Then if was matching to its show format (but as in game nothing works like the show) then it should actually be a Cruiser not an Escort as its stated even in the Episode that it is from that the ship is an Attack/Heavy Cruiser
*Sigh* I'm not asking for more of anything. I did not once post a number that I wanted for the D'Deridex turn rate.
The post I am laughing at, and will continue to laugh at, specifically asked for 9 to 10 base turn. I know it wasn't your post. But it's the post that makes me chuckle. I'm cracking up right now as I type about it. It's that funny.
Anyway, you keep mentioning a turn rate of 10 like it's blasphemous,
Jesus man, read the *** damn post. 8 to 10 turn is not escort level, is it?
If size is your comparison, why don't you go look at the MVAE size compared to the Heavy Cruiser. Should then the cruiser have almost half the turn?
Actually you may need to reread the entire thread. People have time and time again came in and given you reason as to why the D'Deridex is fine, and time and time again, the same few vocal people go "You're Wrong" and then fall back on the same exact position. Actually I think I lost your position other then I want it.
So let me simplify. You don't like how the D'Deridex turns, because you feel something that large should turn faster, at least as fast as say, an Excelsior class ship currently does. Well here's a suggestion for you then, which will fix your problem, and many others problems. Go fly an Excelsior.
Oh course you're going to come back with "No I don't want to." Okay, so then go fly a Mogai... or one of the new "Ha'ships". They have what you want and what you're asking for. Since you're biggest concern is mechanics and PvP, well there's your answer.
Probably you'll come back and say "how about no.." but you know... unles we gave you a 25 turn D'Deridex, that turned to infinate with battlecloak on, you'd probably wouldn't be happy anyway.
Since it escaped notice at the bottom of the last page, why not just give it a turn rate of 7? The Ambassador has a turn rate of 7 and still feels like a cruiser without approaching Escort turn rates, so the twitchy tweakers won't feel that their e-peen is threatened.
Not really. The person's calling me a douchebag troll? Because I find his hyperbole about the turn rate of the ship that just got a major retweak and big time buff in playability to be completely unwarranted and over the top? Who's really being the troll there?
Why stop at 10? Wouldn't a base turn rate of 20 be better?
Since it escaped notice at the bottom of the last page, why not just give it a turn rate of 7? The Ambassador has a turn rate of 7 and still feels like a cruiser without approaching Escort turn rates, so the twitchy tweakers won't feel that their e-peen is threatened.
Snoggy, you ARE kinda being a ****...
Some of us just are trying to say turn isn't needed badly enough to make it worth giving up stats elsewhere. If the devs are willing to do a small turn buff without nerfing anything else then that would be acceptable.
This is what I'm talking about. Nobody's asking for 20. 9-10 is still well below Escorts, so even so, what would the problem be? And again, I'd even be happy with 7, which you continue to ignore in favor of mocking ANY kind of increase.
The D'Deridex is fine the way she is either L2P the ship she was meant to be played or gtfo
honest... some of you need a breather and realize not every single thing has to be exactly like the other...get over it...some people like tobasco on pizza some dont
I like the Big D the way she is as a heavy slow moving monster tank ship that has style
so for the love of all thats good and holy....just drop it...before they increase the turn rate to 10 and drop its hull to 20k or some stupid TRIBBLE...leave it alone!
Infact I speak for the entire IRF when i say...LEAVE IT ALONE
Dev are not going to up the turn rate ppl like this have been asking this for every slow turning ship since the game came out
Not really. The person's calling me a douchebag troll? Because I find his hyperbole about the turn rate of the ship that just got a major retweak and big time buff in playability to be completely unwarranted and over the top? Who's really being the troll there?
Why stop at 10? Wouldn't a base turn rate of 20 be better?
Also he is using the you're only a PVEer argument on you, which is silly as I PVP all the time in a ship with the same turn with no problem.
This is what I'm talking about. Nobody's asking for 20. 9-10 is still well below Escorts, so even so, what would the problem be? And again, I'd even be happy with 7, which you continue to ignore in favor of mocking ANY kind of increase.
The problem with the seven though, honestly, is the battlecloak. With the battle cloak, you can go from a 5 to almost a triple your turn rate, without any other consoles needed. Raising it up to an Ambassador or Galaxy class turn rate, would then let it turn just like any other cruiser before battle cloak, but unlike the Ambassador or Galaxy, turn super fast in bursts, without having to slot certain skills.
Actually you may need to reread the entire thread. People have time and time again came in and given you reason as to why the D'Deridex is fine, and time and time again, the same few vocal people go "You're Wrong" and then fall back on the same exact position. Actually I think I lost your position other then I want it.
So let me simplify. You don't like how the D'Deridex turns, because you feel something that large should turn faster, at least as fast as say, an Excelsior class ship currently does. Well here's a suggestion for you then, which will fix your problem, and many others problems. Go fly an Excelsior.
Oh course you're going to come back with "No I don't want to." Okay, so then go fly a Mogai... or one of the new "Ha'ships". They have what you want and what you're asking for. Since you're biggest concern is mechanics and PvP, well there's your answer.
Probably you'll come back and say "how about no.." but you know... unles we gave you a 25 turn D'Deridex, that turned to infinate with battlecloak on, you'd probably wouldn't be happy anyway.
I do have an excelsior. I enjoy the excelsior. It is nothing but a beam boat so it is horribly ineffective, but I still have fun with it. The new RCS and SIT changes make it a bit more viable to be a DBB boat, so I am happy.
I was really looking forward to LoR. Good story, new content, new gear to get. Now, unfortunately I am not looking forward to it. And no, the Ha'ships don't have what I am looking for as I am not interested in flying a cruiser than can "change" into an escort with an escort boff layout.
So, Iwill either stick to my Excelsior, or switch to KDF until ESO comes out, as there is really nothing for me in LoR
This is what I'm talking about. Nobody's asking for 20. 9-10 is still well below Escorts, so even so, what would the problem be? And again, I'd even be happy with 7, which you continue to ignore in favor of mocking ANY kind of increase.
This is what I'm talking about. Nobody is aiming high enough! 20 is still below Birds of Prey, so even so, what would the problem with 20 be? And again, I'd even be happy with 17, which people are also ignoring in favor of trying to think that 10 is acceptable after the ship got a major tweak and overhaul and turned into a very playable and effective ship.
Snark aside, the bottom line for me is, the ship got buffed. It is playable. It is effective. Asking for the turn rate to be doubled is really asking far too much.
Not really. The person's calling me a douchebag troll? Because I find his hyperbole about the turn rate of the ship that just got a major retweak and big time buff in playability to be completely unwarranted and over the top? Who's really being the troll there?
Why stop at 10? Wouldn't a base turn rate of 20 be better?
Sure it would be better, but that is not what I am asking for.
Maybe I did say 10? Probably. It was a good even number, but it was more of a reflection of the KDF cruisers, honestly.
7 or 8 would put it right in the right spot withe the new RCS and SIT changes.
The problem with the seven though, honestly, is the battlecloak. With the battle cloak, you can go from a 5 to almost a triple your turn rate, without any other consoles needed. Raising it up to an Ambassador or Galaxy class turn rate, would then let it turn just like any other cruiser before battle cloak, but unlike the Ambassador or Galaxy, turn super fast in bursts, without having to slot certain skills.
7 would actually be higher then the galaxy's 6.
in the show the D'D was not more maneuverable then the much smaller galaxy
Sure it would be better, but that is not what I am asking for.
Maybe I did say 10? Probably. It was a good even number, but it was more of a reflection of the KDF cruisers, honestly.
7 or 8 would put it right in the right spot withe the new RCS and SIT changes.
And what I said before, is that giving it an equal turn rate of any cruiser, then giving it the turn buff of a battle cloak, not a normal cloak, would give it an unfair advantage over all other cruisers, which don't have battle cloaks.
This is what I'm talking about. Nobody is aiming high enough! 20 is still below Birds of Prey, so even so, what would the problem with 20 be? And again, I'd even be happy with 17, which people are also ignoring in favor of trying to think that 10 is acceptable after the ship got a major tweak and overhaul and turned into a very playable and effective ship.
Snark aside, the bottom line for me is, the ship got buffed. It is playable. It is effective. Asking for the turn rate to be doubled is really asking far too much.
I'm sorry, were you still trying to claim that you aren't being a troll?
Its not asking for too much for a + 2 or 3 to the turn rate. Remove the + 2 from the zen console and add it to the base and replace the zen console ability with something else. That way RCS consoles give it a higher boost of *7 instead of *5.5.
And what I said before, is that giving it an equal turn rate of any cruiser, then giving it the turn buff of a battle cloak, not a normal cloak, would give it an unfair advantage over all other cruisers, which don't have battle cloaks.
As opposed to what they did with the romulan escorts? BC, more boffs, hull, and shield mod than any BoP at the cost of what? Some marginal power loss? PLUS singularity powers PLUS EBC at T1 shipyard.
Compare the romulan escorts to fed? They made fed escorts completely obsolete, which is where your argument falls apart, sorry.
I'm sorry, were you still trying to claim that you aren't being a troll?
Its not asking for too much for a + 2 or 3 to the turn rate. Remove the + 2 from the zen console and add it to the base and replace the zen console ability with something else. That way RCS consoles give it a higher boost of *7 instead of *5.5.
They probably won't do that, but if it were to happen the D'D would get balanced in some other way with lower stats elsewhere, so not worth it.
How about learn to pvp with big ships instead first before saying the D'D is unplayable. Or just stick to PVE with the D'D if you can't be bothered to do that. Now if you can't manage PVE with this ship just because of turn then you need to stick to escorts.
How about learn to pvp with big ships instead first before saying the D'D is unplayable. Or just stick to PVE with the D'D if you can't be bothered to do that. Now if you can't manage PVE with this ship just because of turn then you need to stick to escorts.
They probably won't do that, but if it were to happen the D'D would get balanced in some other way with lower stats elsewhere, so not worth it.
How about learn to pvp with big ships instead first before saying the D'D is unplayable. Or just stick to PVE with the D'D if you can't be bothered to do that. Now if you can't manage PVE with this ship just because of turn then you need to stick to escorts.
I do pvp with big ships. I do know how to play, quite well. And anybody can get top damage in ESTFs in any ship in their sleep.
I am not saying or have ever said that the D'd is unplayable. I have been asking why this ship must suffer a disadvantage in turn rate as compared to the other cruisers. It is not a carrier, nothing in this game sticks to canon, and the reasoning of it being so is to balance out it having BC, DHCs and singularity powers, makes no sense because the other romulan ships suffer no such disadvantage for having access to the same thing. Aside from lower power, but cruisers have that too.
What is the rationale behind it?
If you do fine with your low turn cruiser, that's great, good for you. Everyone I seem to fight is running dual omegas so TB or EWP doesn't hold them for me as well as you, but oh well. Yours is also a carrier yes? So there is that. I haven't done much pvp in a carrier so I can't say how much different it is. I have killed quite a few though as its pretty easy to stay out of their arc, even in a fed ship. So I guess I really don't know what kind of advice you are trying to give me, aside making your point while being a ****head? The attitude is really not needed.
everything that boosts turn rate does so with a multiplier. thats why the base number is so important. start with 16, easily end up with 40. start with 5, you wont even get 20.
the d'deridex aint no good at being a flying hospital with that many stations taken up by tac, and its not any good at being a battle cruiser with that turn rate that there is nothing you can truly do anything about. nothing that will get you to the mid 20 to the low 30s turn rates you need to be a decent tactical cruiser. spamming faw only kills npcs, its harmless vs any player.
the ship cant do anything right as it stands. a turn rate of 8 or 9, (followed by a buff to every cruiser and carrier turn rate by 1-3,) and the droping of the 2 ENS stations for a LT eng, or uni are needed for this ship to be somewhat useful, as a kirker cruiser.
keep on drinking the RP coolaid though, about how its size should prevent an ok turn rate, as if size has any effect at all on escort turn rates. even the great big ones automatically get a great turn rate just for being escorts. a battle cruiser turn rate is not a lot to ask for a battle cruiser.
even the lower section of the ha'apax, the escort, has a 16 turn rate. that solid section in the middle of that ship? its has at least the d'deride's volume, if not more. it gets a 16 turn rate. the top section thats a sci ship? which has MUCH higher volume? twice the d'deridex's turn rate. theres a 10 turn rate to laugh like an idiot about.
Comments
Size Comoarison between Galaxy and D'Deridex http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8738/gwarb.gif
I don't get where you get this notion of turn rate is not needed.......
Oh wait. Do you spend your time fighting borg?
Ooook. I get it. Pfft yeah in that regard you are right, who needs turn?
Now, have you actually tested the ship in pvp, as many of the people complaining about the turn have?
I routinley out parse escorts in STFs in a Bortasqu using DHC, it has same turn rate, and I think worse inertia, and doesn't get a battle cloak turn buff, also do pvp with it and usually am top in damage, most targets don't last long enough to get out of my firing arc. D'D will be slightly easier then Bortasqu once I get to try it fully geared out at level 50, only have tried the level 30 version so far and it was manageable enough without good gear or spec.
Maybe there needs to be some kind of big ship piloting tutorial or guide someone could make or something in pvp bootcamp, its not hard once you learn the tricks and practice.
That said maybe all worst turning ships could get boosted by 1, I could agree with something like this as long as no other stats get taken away and it might make the ship appeal to more.
Jesus man, read the *** damn post. 8 to 10 turn is not escort level, is it?
If size is your comparison, why don't you go look at the MVAE size compared to the Heavy Cruiser. Should then the cruiser have almost half the turn?
I have to wonder if you are experienced in pvp at all using low turn ships, it is totally different from using a bop or escort. If not, you are not a PVPer as far as big ships are concerned.
I kill people all the time and routinely end up with total damage 1mil+ and top kills using a Bortasqu with DHC, 1 other guy in my fleet is able to do this also. I took out a bug ship piloted by a kerrat regular 1v1 without even having to start out cloaked, reason being is once I tractored him after his omega was on CD, he didn't last long enough for the tractor to expire and him to be able to get out of my arc. I was able to just tank him until I saw the oppourtunity to killl his manuverablity, then quickly evasives and omega to his arc and kill him in seconds afterwards. PVE I out parse escorts all the time, I am almost always on target when I need to be. This ship is as hard, if not harder to pilot then a D'D.
Anyway there are all kind of techniques you can use to compensate for bad turn, also you can play to the strengths most ships with bad turn get like better surviablility, and a boff layout that has room for lots of movement buffs like EPTE and Aux2ID.
Wasnt Trying to Say anything about the turn rates of the ship. My Point was it feels fine the way it is. It dosnt need to be made to turn faster was the point of my post. I fly cruisers on the Fed and Kdf and have done since game launch and in beta in 2010. So for me I dont have a problem with slow turning ships which the D'D should be.
And if want to bring up the matter of the Advanced Escort or MVA Escort as the Cstore model aka Prometheus class. Then if was matching to its show format (but as in game nothing works like the show) then it should actually be a Cruiser not an Escort as its stated even in the Episode that it is from that the ship is an Attack/Heavy Cruiser
The post I am laughing at, and will continue to laugh at, specifically asked for 9 to 10 base turn. I know it wasn't your post. But it's the post that makes me chuckle. I'm cracking up right now as I type about it. It's that funny.
It's not blasphemous, it's hilarious.
Actually you may need to reread the entire thread. People have time and time again came in and given you reason as to why the D'Deridex is fine, and time and time again, the same few vocal people go "You're Wrong" and then fall back on the same exact position. Actually I think I lost your position other then I want it.
So let me simplify. You don't like how the D'Deridex turns, because you feel something that large should turn faster, at least as fast as say, an Excelsior class ship currently does. Well here's a suggestion for you then, which will fix your problem, and many others problems. Go fly an Excelsior.
Oh course you're going to come back with "No I don't want to." Okay, so then go fly a Mogai... or one of the new "Ha'ships". They have what you want and what you're asking for. Since you're biggest concern is mechanics and PvP, well there's your answer.
Probably you'll come back and say "how about no.." but you know... unles we gave you a 25 turn D'Deridex, that turned to infinate with battlecloak on, you'd probably wouldn't be happy anyway.
Gonna cut you off right there. Here's the exact quote which still makes me laugh uncontrollably:
That's what you typed. The 9-10 that "WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR."
Those are your words.
Do you really think calling someone that is a good reflection on you?
Snoggy, you ARE kinda being a ****...
Not really. The person's calling me a douchebag troll? Because I find his hyperbole about the turn rate of the ship that just got a major retweak and big time buff in playability to be completely unwarranted and over the top? Who's really being the troll there?
Why stop at 10? Wouldn't a base turn rate of 20 be better?
Some of us just are trying to say turn isn't needed badly enough to make it worth giving up stats elsewhere. If the devs are willing to do a small turn buff without nerfing anything else then that would be acceptable.
Dev are not going to up the turn rate ppl like this have been asking this for every slow turning ship since the game came out
system Lord Baal is dead
Also he is using the you're only a PVEer argument on you, which is silly as I PVP all the time in a ship with the same turn with no problem.
The problem with the seven though, honestly, is the battlecloak. With the battle cloak, you can go from a 5 to almost a triple your turn rate, without any other consoles needed. Raising it up to an Ambassador or Galaxy class turn rate, would then let it turn just like any other cruiser before battle cloak, but unlike the Ambassador or Galaxy, turn super fast in bursts, without having to slot certain skills.
I do have an excelsior. I enjoy the excelsior. It is nothing but a beam boat so it is horribly ineffective, but I still have fun with it. The new RCS and SIT changes make it a bit more viable to be a DBB boat, so I am happy.
I was really looking forward to LoR. Good story, new content, new gear to get. Now, unfortunately I am not looking forward to it. And no, the Ha'ships don't have what I am looking for as I am not interested in flying a cruiser than can "change" into an escort with an escort boff layout.
So, Iwill either stick to my Excelsior, or switch to KDF until ESO comes out, as there is really nothing for me in LoR
This is what I'm talking about. Nobody is aiming high enough! 20 is still below Birds of Prey, so even so, what would the problem with 20 be? And again, I'd even be happy with 17, which people are also ignoring in favor of trying to think that 10 is acceptable after the ship got a major tweak and overhaul and turned into a very playable and effective ship.
Snark aside, the bottom line for me is, the ship got buffed. It is playable. It is effective. Asking for the turn rate to be doubled is really asking far too much.
Sure it would be better, but that is not what I am asking for.
Maybe I did say 10? Probably. It was a good even number, but it was more of a reflection of the KDF cruisers, honestly.
7 or 8 would put it right in the right spot withe the new RCS and SIT changes.
7 would actually be higher then the galaxy's 6.
in the show the D'D was not more maneuverable then the much smaller galaxy
And what I said before, is that giving it an equal turn rate of any cruiser, then giving it the turn buff of a battle cloak, not a normal cloak, would give it an unfair advantage over all other cruisers, which don't have battle cloaks.
I'm sorry, were you still trying to claim that you aren't being a troll?
Its not asking for too much for a + 2 or 3 to the turn rate. Remove the + 2 from the zen console and add it to the base and replace the zen console ability with something else. That way RCS consoles give it a higher boost of *7 instead of *5.5.
As opposed to what they did with the romulan escorts? BC, more boffs, hull, and shield mod than any BoP at the cost of what? Some marginal power loss? PLUS singularity powers PLUS EBC at T1 shipyard.
Compare the romulan escorts to fed? They made fed escorts completely obsolete, which is where your argument falls apart, sorry.
They probably won't do that, but if it were to happen the D'D would get balanced in some other way with lower stats elsewhere, so not worth it.
How about learn to pvp with big ships instead first before saying the D'D is unplayable. Or just stick to PVE with the D'D if you can't be bothered to do that. Now if you can't manage PVE with this ship just because of turn then you need to stick to escorts.
this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
system Lord Baal is dead
Yup. Just as much as you're claiming your D'D is unplayable and in need of a boost.
I do pvp with big ships. I do know how to play, quite well. And anybody can get top damage in ESTFs in any ship in their sleep.
I am not saying or have ever said that the D'd is unplayable. I have been asking why this ship must suffer a disadvantage in turn rate as compared to the other cruisers. It is not a carrier, nothing in this game sticks to canon, and the reasoning of it being so is to balance out it having BC, DHCs and singularity powers, makes no sense because the other romulan ships suffer no such disadvantage for having access to the same thing. Aside from lower power, but cruisers have that too.
What is the rationale behind it?
If you do fine with your low turn cruiser, that's great, good for you. Everyone I seem to fight is running dual omegas so TB or EWP doesn't hold them for me as well as you, but oh well. Yours is also a carrier yes? So there is that. I haven't done much pvp in a carrier so I can't say how much different it is. I have killed quite a few though as its pretty easy to stay out of their arc, even in a fed ship. So I guess I really don't know what kind of advice you are trying to give me, aside making your point while being a ****head? The attitude is really not needed.
the d'deridex aint no good at being a flying hospital with that many stations taken up by tac, and its not any good at being a battle cruiser with that turn rate that there is nothing you can truly do anything about. nothing that will get you to the mid 20 to the low 30s turn rates you need to be a decent tactical cruiser. spamming faw only kills npcs, its harmless vs any player.
the ship cant do anything right as it stands. a turn rate of 8 or 9, (followed by a buff to every cruiser and carrier turn rate by 1-3,) and the droping of the 2 ENS stations for a LT eng, or uni are needed for this ship to be somewhat useful, as a kirker cruiser.
keep on drinking the RP coolaid though, about how its size should prevent an ok turn rate, as if size has any effect at all on escort turn rates. even the great big ones automatically get a great turn rate just for being escorts. a battle cruiser turn rate is not a lot to ask for a battle cruiser.
even the lower section of the ha'apax, the escort, has a 16 turn rate. that solid section in the middle of that ship? its has at least the d'deride's volume, if not more. it gets a 16 turn rate. the top section thats a sci ship? which has MUCH higher volume? twice the d'deridex's turn rate. theres a 10 turn rate to laugh like an idiot about.
Never said unplayable. Did say could use a boost though.
Keep claiming its great though.