PvP is the way it is because it's a PvE game with PvP tacked on. Why the hell do you bother?
Why do I bother arguing or why do I bother PvPing?
Well, first one, I don't know. Hopeless optimism?
Second point is that I love to PvP. I only play games for the PvP at endgame. I love Star Trek, and I love flying my Star Trek ships. I would love to fly my Star Trek ships that I love in the kind of game play that I love.
I would love to fly my Star Trek ships that I love in the kind of game play that I love.
I remember when STO was in beta and first came out (and thinking the same thing for some time after that)...that it would have been nifty to have had some sort of EVE(back when there were 5-8k people on the shard)/STO fusion.
I realized a few things with that:
1) Folks that like EVE may not like the STO aspect, so it would cut down on the amount of revenue the game would generate.
2) Folks that like STO may not like the EVE aspect, so it would cut down on the amount of revenue the game would generate.
3) Like anybody else that thinks they like something in theory, I may not have liked the actual implementation of it.
Still though, when I'm in a particular mood...I'll get all glassy eyed and picture that.
We have to accept that STO is the game that it is. That the revenue comes from Cryptic supporting the game in that manner.
I've PvP'd...er...3 times in the past month. One was just a duel where I wanted to see something. Sure, sure - the Crystalline Event and all the Tribble stuff has definitely consumed the majority of my time in that time...
...but I can't help but feel that my STO playing is going to get more and more like how the girlfriend plays Farmerama. Might do the random DOFFing, check for events, but otherwise - I may end up watching more videos of funny cats on YouTube.
The ship is fine in PvP. The ship is fine in PvE. There are quite a few guides that already exist on how to successfully fly slow turning ships in PvP. There's that boot camp thing. I highly recommend cha0s try the boot camp and get better at flying slow turning ships in PvP so that they can utilize the D'D better in PvP.
Instead of continuing down this extremely hilarious road calling for the ship to get a turn rate boost.
The ship got a major boost already. Asking for more (and particularly asking for all that added turn rate) is just insane.
Lemme guess you were actually trying to use DHC on a ship that is (for all practical purposes) a heavy cruiser? Umm.... no. I used beam arrays with a dragon setup and FaW.... worked great!
Ok I have to ask, seen it so many times, What do people mean by Dragon Setup?
The Turn Rate, seems fine to me my Rommiie lv41 Engineer 8.8 Turnrate with no RCS, when I cloak that goes to about 15.7 with Evasive Maneouvers that further increases to 21.2, I am also aware that DHC's are use less on it, so gone for a total of 6 Beam Arrays and 2 Torpedo (One of them is Bio something or other, the other is plasma)
I can't agree with that point. The combination of the turn, BOFF layout, and consoles...well, it sets it apart.
X, X, X
X X, X, X, X X, X, X X
3 Tac, 4 Eng, 3 Sci
5.5 Base Turn
It's got carrier turn without the two hangars.
It's got Fleet Heavy Consoles.
It's got that funky BOFF layout that looks like some sort of Tac variant Recluse. Again, a carrier thing...no pets.
You're looking at:
X, X, X
X
X X, X, X, X X, X, X
...or...
X, X, X
X X, X, X, X
X X, X, X
...or...
X, X, X
X X, X, X, X X, X, X
X
With the 3/4/3 consoles and the 5.5 (even if you've got it at 8-12 or so)...
...it's just uh, well - it actually makes the Fleet Galaxy look good.
X, X X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X X, X
2/5/3 consoles with 6 turn.
No, it's not doing what folks want the Fleet Galaxy to do...but hey, at least it can do what it can do well.
The D'deridex is a mutt...a mongrel. A jack-of-some-trades, master of none in the least...
At least when it had the Ambassador/Kamarag BOFFs to go with the 3/4/3 consoles...there was something that one could do with it.
It's definitely fine for PvE...but then again, what isn't?
Ok I have to ask, seen it so many times, What do people mean by Dragon Setup?
The Turn Rate, seems fine to me my Rommiie lv41 Engineer 8.8 Turnrate with no RCS, when I cloak that goes to about 15.7 with Evasive Maneouvers that further increases to 21.2, I am also aware that DHC's are use less on it, so gone for a total of 6 Beam Arrays and 2 Torpedo (One of them is Bio something or other, the other is plasma)
Dragon Flagship is a build that utilizes a Heavy Cruiser's massive array of Eng Boff skills to keep power levels as high as possible.
My Ha'apax on tribble is currently setup with:
Veril; EptS1, EptW2, Aux2Batt2, Eject Warp plasma2
Selat; EptW1, EptS2, Aux2Batt2 (random boff)
It's fun being able to pump up your power levels with two skills at the same time.
I can't agree with that point. The combination of the turn, BOFF layout, and consoles...well, it sets it apart.
No, it's not doing what folks want the Fleet Galaxy to do...but hey, at least it can do what it can do well.
The D'deridex is a mutt...a mongrel. A jack-of-some-trades, master of none in the least...
At least when it had the Ambassador/Kamarag BOFFs to go with the 3/4/3 consoles...there was something that one could do with it.
It's definitely fine for PvE...but then again, what isn't?
It will work great for me, all I need is Cmdr eng if I want to make myself tanky and not be a team healer, so makes sense to have the rest of the boff abilities moved over to sci and tac. It should work good as a alpha striker, decloak, PSW, tractor, DEM3 with marion, BO+HY. You can even aux2bat and keep spamming those abilities if you want.
Bah, this thing will be an alpha strike beast for PvP (Similar to Gal-X) and perfectly workable for PvE dakka dakka I think is the new term.
Dem 3 + APB2 + BO1 + CRF1 + TS1 + PSW + EPtW 3 = Boom. I would hope.
PvE? It can use DHCs, it will be fine.
I still hate terrible turn rates personally though. Its not that I am incapable of flying them, it is that I do not enjoy flying them. And if our not enjoying it why bother.
Oh and VD I'm happy (sad?) that you realize what this entire game has been steering toward, the casual player, although it makes one wonder why they refuse to lessen the importance/impact of Tribal Knowledge on the game. Then again if everyone had the capability to make informed decisions they likely would spend far less cash in the game. Mk XII tactical consoles are the prime example of this if you ask me.
In Canon the turn rate is sound due to its immense size and role in the Romulan Fleet.
In the series when have you EVER see the D'D turn? I haven't they normally glide like a bird.
They are bigger than a galaxy class and as such they must consume more raw power, this is about the closest thing to a Star Destroyer you can get. They never turn either.
The Galaxy could turn and was a luxury liner, The DD was a dedicated Tactical Capital Ship.
Galaxy Classes like the Ent-D were meant to explore the cosmos and be a Flag bearer of an organization like the Federation. Kind of like the Honor or Color Guard in a band. Visible, easy to recognize and elegant.
The DD was meant to be the big bad Imperial Ship in the area so the Star Empire can insert its influence in region like the USA Aircraft Carrier Nimitz Class. That is a Capital Ship.
On the same token the NegVar was meant almost a forward command central for a siege campaigns on planets. They were not in abundance with most fleet formations. While the DD was a mainstay like the Galaxy. (ST: DS9 Way of the Warrior, Tears of the Prophets)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "This planet smells, it must be the Klingons"
PvP is the way it is because it's a PvE game with PvP tacked on. Why the hell do you bother?
technically this is a pvp game with overdeveloped pve. because there are things like science captains and science ships that are completely useless in pve. everywhere you could use ether a sci ship or captain in any pve, a tac in an escort could do a better job.
Mk XII tactical consoles are the prime example of this if you ask me.
Those are mind-boggling to me. I see the prices on the Exchange. I see people buying them. Sure, if I had one drop as loot or got it in another fashion - I'd use it. I sure wouldn't pay 10-20x+ the amount for one over a Mk XI.
It will work great for me, all I need is Cmdr eng if I want to make myself tanky and not be a team healer, so makes sense to have the rest of the boff abilities moved over to sci and tac. It should work good as a alpha striker, decloak, PSW, tractor, DEM3 with marion, BO+HY. You can even aux2bat and keep spamming those abilities if you want.
The following are with example placements of the Universal BOFF stations only. They are not necessarily the actual BOFF layouts.
Fleet D'deridex
3x Tac Consoles X, X, X
X X, X, X, X
X X, X, X
Fleet T'varo
4x Tac Consoles X, X, X, X
X X, X X, X, X
X, X
Fleet Dhelan
5x Tac Consoles X, X, X, X
X X, X
X, X X, X, X
Fleet Mogai
4x Tac Consoles X, X, X, X
X, X X, X, X X, X
X
Fleet Ha'feh
5x Tac Consoles X, X, X, X
X, X, X X, X
X X, X
Fleet Ha'nom
3x Tac Consoles X, X
X X, X X, X, X, X
X, X, X
Fleet Ha'apax
3x Tac Consoles X, X, X
X X, X, X, X
X, X X, X
Just for comparison...
Tac Bortasqu'
5x Tac Consoles X, X, X
X, X X, X, X, X
X X, X
Still though, the reason any of those had the Universal selections they did was to try to match the alpha striker build in the post I was replying to as closely as possible. So it had the Lt/En for the addition of the Tractor. Not why I would run the Lt/En...but the reason why they look the way they do anyway.
D'D looks like something that has to be flown in PVE like some peoples fly their klingon BC. Fit heaviest cannons you feel comfortable with. Uncloak use rapid fire, eptw etc. Follow up with tractor beam and trops. Then just before pasing target drop warp plasma and chroniton mines soo enemy sits there while big space whale turns around to get target back in to firing arc. I guess difference is that D'D will have to cloak before doing the last thing.
The ship is fine in PvP. The ship is fine in PvE. There are quite a few guides that already exist on how to successfully fly slow turning ships in PvP. There's that boot camp thing. I highly recommend cha0s try the boot camp and get better at flying slow turning ships in PvP so that they can utilize the D'D better in PvP.
Instead of continuing down this extremely hilarious road calling for the ship to get a turn rate boost.
The ship got a major boost already. Asking for more (and particularly asking for all that added turn rate) is just insane.
I appreciate the sentiment, as snarky as it is, but I am fine. Time and time again, you utterly fail to comprehend my point. I will explain it to you one more time. Just read it slowly if need be.
It is hardly hilarious or insane to ask that the shortcomings of the ship be improved.
I don't really care if the damn thing gets a turn rate boost. I think it is stupid to package it with a 5.5 turn, and then sell the console that fills in its shortcoming. That is a dangerous precedent.
I don't need a guide on flying low turn ships. I just don't enjoy it, as there are plenty of other cruisers that don't get saddled with that issue.
I just simply won't be buying the ship. It's turn is too low for me to find much value in it for what it does, and many (competent) people feel the same way.
I don't need a guide on flying low turn ships. I just don't enjoy it, as there are plenty of other cruisers that don't get saddled with that issue.
that console wont fix TRIBBLE. +2 is not to the base, were it would mater. if the console gave like +10 to turn, then it would be worth something. thats what saucer sep does for the galaxy, a flat +10. not something that effects the base
that console wont fix TRIBBLE. +2 is not to the base, were it would mater. if the console gave like +10 to turn, then it would be worth something. thats what saucer sep does for the galaxy, a flat +10. not something that effects the base
Oh I know. I didn't mean to imply that it fixed the problem. If it DID add to the base, that would be something as well.
Personally I would just like the base turn rate increased to 6.5 and the console bonus added to the base which would put it at 8.5 base. That's not by any means a large increase and I wouldn't have a problem if they slightly lowered the turn rate boost while cloaked.
The solution of just cloak whenever you want to turn is just plain ridiculous, but so are some of the other turn rate boosts that people are asking for. It's not a carrier, but it's not a light cruiser either.
I think somewhere along the line people have forgotten what this ship is designed for.
1) Move up to target under cloak
2) Decloak, fire all weapons
3) Circle around tanking broadside while attacking with beams
4) get behind them and shove a torp or two up their exhaust manifold
5) Repeat process until back in front of enemy and then repeat back again. (if they live that long)
This thing isn't a get in, get out, rinse and repeat escort/light cruiser type like people are thinking.
However, the one thing that doesn't make sense is why you can use heals while cloaked, or did they change that already?
Fine there, too, the metagame just hasn't caught up to it yet.
Just because it has battle cloak doesn't mean it should be flown like a BoP, just because it has DHC's doesn't mean it should be flown like an escort, and just because it has a cruiser's hull and turn rate doesn't mean it should be flown like one of those either.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
I don't need a guide on flying low turn ships. I just don't enjoy it, as there are plenty of other cruisers that don't get saddled with that issue.
There's a big difference between what you're supposedly complaining about (the ship's turn rate needs to be buffed because it is not an effective ship) and what you just said there.
So you want to turn faster because you don't enjoy turning slow?
That's a whole other enchilada. The ship is fine. You may not enjoy the playstyle of it, but it's an effective ship.
If you want to turn faster, you should probably fly a JHAS anyways. It turns really fast.
There's a big difference between what you're supposedly complaining about (the ship's turn rate needs to be buffed because it is not an effective ship) and what you just said there.
So you want to turn faster because you don't enjoy turning slow?
That's a whole other enchilada. The ship is fine. You may not enjoy the playstyle of it, but it's an effective ship.
If you want to turn faster, you should probably fly a JHAS anyways. It turns really fast.
You're hyperbole is not amusing anymore mate.
Your ignorance is truly astounding, or you are just a veteran troll. Either way, you still do not understand anything that I am saying.
The ship is not a carrier, yet it has carrier turn rate. It has the boff layout of a battle cruiser, but it doesn't have the turn to be as effective as other battle cruisers.
YOU MAY think it is fine, and a handful of other people do as well. That is fine. Just understand that other people will be able to employ other ships that do everything that the D'd can do, only better.
Last time I checked, JHAS isn't a cruiser. I assumed you were aware of the general theme being about cruisers, specifically the D'd, but AGAIN, your ignorance is mind boggling.
Adding +2 to the base of the D'd would give it 7.5. How, in any way shape or form what so ever, does that equate to asking for a 20 base?
Your ignorance is truly astounding, or you are just a veteran troll. Either way, you still do not understand anything that I am saying.
How many more insults can you jam pack into one post? Yet none of it changes the facts.
Fact: You don't enjoy turning slow.
Fact: You don't enjoy the D'Deridex because it turns slow.
That has nothing to do with the ship's effectiveness. Just your own enjoyment of it.
Many testers have told you in this very thread that the ship is effective.
I get it. You don't enjoy it. But that isn't a strong enough reason to change the ship. As those same testers have told you, to get the upped turn rate, it will lose other things in a tradeoff. Most likely get a BOFF setup that you won't enjoy.
At this point just count your losses and fly something else.
Last time I checked, JHAS isn't a cruiser.
The JHAS has enough engineering capability that it doesn't really matter. It's the best ship in the game for what you find enjoyable. Not my fault that you act like a medieval monk and flagellate yourself by flying something you thoroughly dislike when you can easily switch to something that does everything you want to do in a fun, easy, enjoyable manner.
How many more insults can you jam pack into one post? Yet none of it changes the facts.
Fact: You don't enjoy turning slow.
Fact: You don't enjoy the D'Deridex because it turns slow.
That has nothing to do with the ship's effectiveness. Just your own enjoyment of it.
Many testers have told you in this very thread that the ship is effective.
I get it. You don't enjoy it. But that isn't a strong enough reason to change the ship. As those same testers have told you, to get the upped turn rate, it will lose other things in a tradeoff. Most likely get a BOFF setup that you won't enjoy.
At this point just count your losses and fly something else.
The JHAS has enough engineering capability that it doesn't really matter. It's the best ship in the game for what you find enjoyable. Not my fault that you act like a medieval monk and flagellate yourself by flying something you thoroughly dislike when you can easily switch to something that does everything you want to do in a fun, easy, enjoyable manner.
There are no losses to cut. I will not be buying the ship, or flying the ship, or have anything to do with the ship. I didn't start this thread, so this is not my crusade. I am just restating that many people are unhappy with the turn rate of this ship, and they should be.
There is no reason whatsoever to give the ship a 5.5 to begin with. BC and singularity powers apparently have no bearing on the balance of the other romulan ships turn or boff layout, so why is it that the Romulan cruisers are the ones that have to have an extra penalty? THAT has been the entire point I have been trying to make, but you seem stuck on the fact that I don't like the turn because I need to LtP.
Yes, I don't like the turn. Yes I feel it is too slow to be able to use DHCs effectively. There are some PvErs and a PvPer here and there who disagree and that is fine. The claim to have a bag of tricks to make low turn rates effective. You can make low turn rate decent, but all of those tricks can be used on cruisers with better turn already to make them even more effective.
Fact is, those many testers you speak of are PvErs, and well, yeah, everything is effective in pve. You can do an ESTF in an NX...or a shuttle.
I have my other ships. I have my other cruisers. They have good turn rates for cruisers now with the RCS changes.
Again, I have no loses to count. I just won't buy the ship, or play Romulan as they only offer 2 cruisers right now, both with the same TRIBBLE turn.
Just don't be surprised in 6 months when you don't see many of these things flying around because they've all been mothballed.
There is no reason whatsoever to give the ship a 5.5 to begin with.
Well besides the fact that all the Romulan Battlecruisers currently have 5 or 5.5 turn rates? The Ha'Apax, Haakona and the D'Deridex. Or just the whole flavor that all the Romulan ships turn slower than their Klignon and Federation foils? As if that's an intentional part of their flavor?
the D'D is the Romulan equivalent of a Heavy Cruiser. Heavy Cruisers are SLOW..... Them and carriers are the slowest turning ships in the game. Obviously you dislike that.... well, use a different ship.
Well besides the fact that all the Romulan Battlecruisers currently have 5 or 5.5 turn rates? The Ha'Apax, Haakona and the D'Deridex. Or just the whole flavor that all the Romulan ships turn slower than their Klignon and Federation foils? As if that's an intentional part of their flavor?
Nah, couldn't be that.
What flavour justifys that Romulan ships turn slower than Klingon or Federation equivalents?
What flavour justifys that Romulan ships turn slower than Klingon or Federation equivalents?
When you have the best cloaking technology in the galaxy why do you need to be nimble?
Klingon's have to be nimble because they're all about attacking head-on.
Federation is the jack-of-all-trades sort, so they have to be somewhat dexterous.
Romulan's don't need to be nimble because they could appear anywhere. Even worse: they could have reinforcements you only know about right before taking all their opening salvo's at once.
Game mechanics don't exactly match up with this unfortunately. I'd love to see some 'Oh TRIBBLE, that's no D'Deridex, that's three D'Deridex' moments in STO.
Comments
Why do I bother arguing or why do I bother PvPing?
Well, first one, I don't know. Hopeless optimism?
Second point is that I love to PvP. I only play games for the PvP at endgame. I love Star Trek, and I love flying my Star Trek ships. I would love to fly my Star Trek ships that I love in the kind of game play that I love.
I remember when STO was in beta and first came out (and thinking the same thing for some time after that)...that it would have been nifty to have had some sort of EVE(back when there were 5-8k people on the shard)/STO fusion.
I realized a few things with that:
1) Folks that like EVE may not like the STO aspect, so it would cut down on the amount of revenue the game would generate.
2) Folks that like STO may not like the EVE aspect, so it would cut down on the amount of revenue the game would generate.
3) Like anybody else that thinks they like something in theory, I may not have liked the actual implementation of it.
Still though, when I'm in a particular mood...I'll get all glassy eyed and picture that.
We have to accept that STO is the game that it is. That the revenue comes from Cryptic supporting the game in that manner.
I've PvP'd...er...3 times in the past month. One was just a duel where I wanted to see something. Sure, sure - the Crystalline Event and all the Tribble stuff has definitely consumed the majority of my time in that time...
...but I can't help but feel that my STO playing is going to get more and more like how the girlfriend plays Farmerama. Might do the random DOFFing, check for events, but otherwise - I may end up watching more videos of funny cats on YouTube.
Instead of continuing down this extremely hilarious road calling for the ship to get a turn rate boost.
The ship got a major boost already. Asking for more (and particularly asking for all that added turn rate) is just insane.
Ok I have to ask, seen it so many times, What do people mean by Dragon Setup?
The Turn Rate, seems fine to me my Rommiie lv41 Engineer 8.8 Turnrate with no RCS, when I cloak that goes to about 15.7 with Evasive Maneouvers that further increases to 21.2, I am also aware that DHC's are use less on it, so gone for a total of 6 Beam Arrays and 2 Torpedo (One of them is Bio something or other, the other is plasma)
I can't agree with that point. The combination of the turn, BOFF layout, and consoles...well, it sets it apart.
X, X, X
X
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X
3 Tac, 4 Eng, 3 Sci
5.5 Base Turn
It's got carrier turn without the two hangars.
It's got Fleet Heavy Consoles.
It's got that funky BOFF layout that looks like some sort of Tac variant Recluse. Again, a carrier thing...no pets.
You're looking at:
X, X, X
X
X
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
...or...
X, X, X
X
X, X, X, X
X
X, X, X
...or...
X, X, X
X
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X
With the 3/4/3 consoles and the 5.5 (even if you've got it at 8-12 or so)...
...it's just uh, well - it actually makes the Fleet Galaxy look good.
X, X
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X
X, X
2/5/3 consoles with 6 turn.
No, it's not doing what folks want the Fleet Galaxy to do...but hey, at least it can do what it can do well.
The D'deridex is a mutt...a mongrel. A jack-of-some-trades, master of none in the least...
At least when it had the Ambassador/Kamarag BOFFs to go with the 3/4/3 consoles...there was something that one could do with it.
It's definitely fine for PvE...but then again, what isn't?
My Ha'apax on tribble is currently setup with:
Veril; EptS1, EptW2, Aux2Batt2, Eject Warp plasma2
Selat; EptW1, EptS2, Aux2Batt2 (random boff)
It's fun being able to pump up your power levels with two skills at the same time.
My character Tsin'xing
It will work great for me, all I need is Cmdr eng if I want to make myself tanky and not be a team healer, so makes sense to have the rest of the boff abilities moved over to sci and tac. It should work good as a alpha striker, decloak, PSW, tractor, DEM3 with marion, BO+HY. You can even aux2bat and keep spamming those abilities if you want.
Dem 3 + APB2 + BO1 + CRF1 + TS1 + PSW + EPtW 3 = Boom. I would hope.
PvE? It can use DHCs, it will be fine.
I still hate terrible turn rates personally though. Its not that I am incapable of flying them, it is that I do not enjoy flying them. And if our not enjoying it why bother.
Oh and VD I'm happy (sad?) that you realize what this entire game has been steering toward, the casual player, although it makes one wonder why they refuse to lessen the importance/impact of Tribal Knowledge on the game. Then again if everyone had the capability to make informed decisions they likely would spend far less cash in the game. Mk XII tactical consoles are the prime example of this if you ask me.
In the series when have you EVER see the D'D turn? I haven't they normally glide like a bird.
They are bigger than a galaxy class and as such they must consume more raw power, this is about the closest thing to a Star Destroyer you can get. They never turn either.
The Galaxy could turn and was a luxury liner, The DD was a dedicated Tactical Capital Ship.
Galaxy Classes like the Ent-D were meant to explore the cosmos and be a Flag bearer of an organization like the Federation. Kind of like the Honor or Color Guard in a band. Visible, easy to recognize and elegant.
The DD was meant to be the big bad Imperial Ship in the area so the Star Empire can insert its influence in region like the USA Aircraft Carrier Nimitz Class. That is a Capital Ship.
On the same token the NegVar was meant almost a forward command central for a siege campaigns on planets. They were not in abundance with most fleet formations. While the DD was a mainstay like the Galaxy. (ST: DS9 Way of the Warrior, Tears of the Prophets)
technically this is a pvp game with overdeveloped pve. because there are things like science captains and science ships that are completely useless in pve. everywhere you could use ether a sci ship or captain in any pve, a tac in an escort could do a better job.
Those are mind-boggling to me. I see the prices on the Exchange. I see people buying them. Sure, if I had one drop as loot or got it in another fashion - I'd use it. I sure wouldn't pay 10-20x+ the amount for one over a Mk XI.
Tin Man.
Enterprise viewscreen.
Fixed camera position so there is no chance to confuse turn with camera movement.
The following are with example placements of the Universal BOFF stations only. They are not necessarily the actual BOFF layouts.
Fleet D'deridex
3x Tac Consoles
X, X, X
X
X, X, X, X
X
X, X, X
Fleet T'varo
4x Tac Consoles
X, X, X, X
X
X, X
X, X, X
X, X
Fleet Dhelan
5x Tac Consoles
X, X, X, X
X
X, X
X, X
X, X, X
Fleet Mogai
4x Tac Consoles
X, X, X, X
X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X
Fleet Ha'feh
5x Tac Consoles
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
X, X
X
X, X
Fleet Ha'nom
3x Tac Consoles
X, X
X
X, X
X, X, X, X
X, X, X
Fleet Ha'apax
3x Tac Consoles
X, X, X
X
X, X, X, X
X, X
X, X
Just for comparison...
Tac Bortasqu'
5x Tac Consoles
X, X, X
X, X
X, X, X, X
X
X, X
Fixed it for you. Thank me later. :cool:
Actually, I'd run the Lt/En Sci.
Still though, the reason any of those had the Universal selections they did was to try to match the alpha striker build in the post I was replying to as closely as possible. So it had the Lt/En for the addition of the Tractor. Not why I would run the Lt/En...but the reason why they look the way they do anyway.
I appreciate the sentiment, as snarky as it is, but I am fine. Time and time again, you utterly fail to comprehend my point. I will explain it to you one more time. Just read it slowly if need be.
It is hardly hilarious or insane to ask that the shortcomings of the ship be improved.
I don't really care if the damn thing gets a turn rate boost. I think it is stupid to package it with a 5.5 turn, and then sell the console that fills in its shortcoming. That is a dangerous precedent.
I don't need a guide on flying low turn ships. I just don't enjoy it, as there are plenty of other cruisers that don't get saddled with that issue.
I just simply won't be buying the ship. It's turn is too low for me to find much value in it for what it does, and many (competent) people feel the same way.
This, x10.
that console wont fix TRIBBLE. +2 is not to the base, were it would mater. if the console gave like +10 to turn, then it would be worth something. thats what saucer sep does for the galaxy, a flat +10. not something that effects the base
Oh I know. I didn't mean to imply that it fixed the problem. If it DID add to the base, that would be something as well.
The solution of just cloak whenever you want to turn is just plain ridiculous, but so are some of the other turn rate boosts that people are asking for. It's not a carrier, but it's not a light cruiser either.
I think somewhere along the line people have forgotten what this ship is designed for.
1) Move up to target under cloak
2) Decloak, fire all weapons
3) Circle around tanking broadside while attacking with beams
4) get behind them and shove a torp or two up their exhaust manifold
5) Repeat process until back in front of enemy and then repeat back again. (if they live that long)
This thing isn't a get in, get out, rinse and repeat escort/light cruiser type like people are thinking.
However, the one thing that doesn't make sense is why you can use heals while cloaked, or did they change that already?
Fine there, too, the metagame just hasn't caught up to it yet.
Just because it has battle cloak doesn't mean it should be flown like a BoP, just because it has DHC's doesn't mean it should be flown like an escort, and just because it has a cruiser's hull and turn rate doesn't mean it should be flown like one of those either.
Spock's Brain.
There's a big difference between what you're supposedly complaining about (the ship's turn rate needs to be buffed because it is not an effective ship) and what you just said there.
So you want to turn faster because you don't enjoy turning slow?
That's a whole other enchilada. The ship is fine. You may not enjoy the playstyle of it, but it's an effective ship.
If you want to turn faster, you should probably fly a JHAS anyways. It turns really fast.
You're hyperbole is not amusing anymore mate.
Your ignorance is truly astounding, or you are just a veteran troll. Either way, you still do not understand anything that I am saying.
The ship is not a carrier, yet it has carrier turn rate. It has the boff layout of a battle cruiser, but it doesn't have the turn to be as effective as other battle cruisers.
YOU MAY think it is fine, and a handful of other people do as well. That is fine. Just understand that other people will be able to employ other ships that do everything that the D'd can do, only better.
Last time I checked, JHAS isn't a cruiser. I assumed you were aware of the general theme being about cruisers, specifically the D'd, but AGAIN, your ignorance is mind boggling.
Adding +2 to the base of the D'd would give it 7.5. How, in any way shape or form what so ever, does that equate to asking for a 20 base?
How many more insults can you jam pack into one post? Yet none of it changes the facts.
Fact: You don't enjoy turning slow.
Fact: You don't enjoy the D'Deridex because it turns slow.
That has nothing to do with the ship's effectiveness. Just your own enjoyment of it.
Many testers have told you in this very thread that the ship is effective.
I get it. You don't enjoy it. But that isn't a strong enough reason to change the ship. As those same testers have told you, to get the upped turn rate, it will lose other things in a tradeoff. Most likely get a BOFF setup that you won't enjoy.
At this point just count your losses and fly something else.
The JHAS has enough engineering capability that it doesn't really matter. It's the best ship in the game for what you find enjoyable. Not my fault that you act like a medieval monk and flagellate yourself by flying something you thoroughly dislike when you can easily switch to something that does everything you want to do in a fun, easy, enjoyable manner.
There are no losses to cut. I will not be buying the ship, or flying the ship, or have anything to do with the ship. I didn't start this thread, so this is not my crusade. I am just restating that many people are unhappy with the turn rate of this ship, and they should be.
There is no reason whatsoever to give the ship a 5.5 to begin with. BC and singularity powers apparently have no bearing on the balance of the other romulan ships turn or boff layout, so why is it that the Romulan cruisers are the ones that have to have an extra penalty? THAT has been the entire point I have been trying to make, but you seem stuck on the fact that I don't like the turn because I need to LtP.
Yes, I don't like the turn. Yes I feel it is too slow to be able to use DHCs effectively. There are some PvErs and a PvPer here and there who disagree and that is fine. The claim to have a bag of tricks to make low turn rates effective. You can make low turn rate decent, but all of those tricks can be used on cruisers with better turn already to make them even more effective.
Fact is, those many testers you speak of are PvErs, and well, yeah, everything is effective in pve. You can do an ESTF in an NX...or a shuttle.
I have my other ships. I have my other cruisers. They have good turn rates for cruisers now with the RCS changes.
Again, I have no loses to count. I just won't buy the ship, or play Romulan as they only offer 2 cruisers right now, both with the same TRIBBLE turn.
Just don't be surprised in 6 months when you don't see many of these things flying around because they've all been mothballed.
Well besides the fact that all the Romulan Battlecruisers currently have 5 or 5.5 turn rates? The Ha'Apax, Haakona and the D'Deridex. Or just the whole flavor that all the Romulan ships turn slower than their Klignon and Federation foils? As if that's an intentional part of their flavor?
Nah, couldn't be that.
My character Tsin'xing
What flavour justifys that Romulan ships turn slower than Klingon or Federation equivalents?
When you have the best cloaking technology in the galaxy why do you need to be nimble?
Klingon's have to be nimble because they're all about attacking head-on.
Federation is the jack-of-all-trades sort, so they have to be somewhat dexterous.
Romulan's don't need to be nimble because they could appear anywhere. Even worse: they could have reinforcements you only know about right before taking all their opening salvo's at once.
Game mechanics don't exactly match up with this unfortunately. I'd love to see some 'Oh TRIBBLE, that's no D'Deridex, that's three D'Deridex' moments in STO.