Fear not there's a Tal Shiar lockbox heading our way with the launch of LoR...I gots mah sources...
It would be just so perfect if the Rom lockbox would include a way to add the RSE prefix to a ship's name. Nothing like contradicting and undermining your whole argument right?
Lets hope they at least make such a prefix unlock account wide, should it indeed be in a lockbox.
Even if there were factions within the Republic, that would've sufficed. Donatrist military officers siding with Da'Tan's reunificationists against the common enemy of Sela and the Tal Shiar (and their Iconian backers). The enemy of my enemy, after all. But no. We are forced to play Romulans who think the past centuries of Romulan history was a mistake. That the Vulcans were right. That's......not Romulan, not as they were presented in Trek. And that, obviously, is what people were after. No-one said "I want to play Romulans, but specifically reunificationists.". They said "I want to play the Romulan Star Empire.". Hence the appointment's.
Nope, that's pretty much the thing you get. The Romulan Republic isn't made up of raving unificationists but of people who don't want to live under the rule of the Tal Shiar. If D'Tan would just enter Federation space and ask for asylum for him and his people most the Republic wouldn't follow. But he doesn't he wants a strong Romulan political entity again that can meet the Vulcans on equal terms. It's all about Romulan pride, not about their history being an almost two millenia lasting mistake.
Now if you want to play as an Empire, well then you're screwed. The Empire has been sold out to the Tal Shiar, the Elachi and the Iconians and has committed atrocities that will forever taint the name. There will never be a German Reich again either. So look into the future and make the Romulan Republic something to be proud of.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
No. Its really not as grey as some would like to believe. Of course, evil is not tied to an entire faction, rather to some races from the Horde that are particularly extra evil.
more grey than the Romulan Republic, at any rate. These fellows are nicer than either the Klingons or the Federation, wheras on the shows they were usually much worse. It's liek bizarro land here on STO, with the Romulans being some of the nicest people around.
It would be just so perfect if the Rom lockbox would include a way to add the RSE prefix to a ship's name. Nothing like contradicting and undermining your whole argument right?
Lets hope they at least make such a prefix unlock account wide, should it indeed be in a lockbox.
You already can on Tribble, at least. No function aside from personal taste, unfortunately.
more grey than the Romulan Republic, at any rate. These fellows are nicer than either the Klingons or the Federation, wheras on the shows they were usually much worse. It's liek bizarro land here on STO, with the Romulans being some of the nicest people around.
Nicer than the Federation or the Klingons? Okay, nicer than the Klingons maybe. But how much of that is belonging to a hunted minority that is in dire need of allies and how much is actually really "nice". What do the Romulans do that doesn't benefit their own survival. Heck, even Temer's sacrifice wasn't because he especially liked Woldan or thought that killing him was wrong. He did it because it was the only way to convince them to support his people.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Nicer than the Federation or the Klingons? Okay, nicer than the Klingons maybe. But how much of that is belonging to a hunted minority that is in dire need of allies and how much is actually really "nice". What do the Romulans do that doesn't benefit their own survival. Heck, even Temer's sacrifice wasn't because he especially liked Woldan or thought that killing him was wrong. He did it because it was the only way to convince them to support his people.
A Romulan taking the hit and sacrificing himself to keep another Romulan from assassinating a high-ranking Klingon seems a bit of a far cry from TNG where you had a dying Romulan refuse a blood transfusion from Worf because it would 'taint' him.
In the various series there were always a few Romulans willing to give up everything for the good of the Empire. no matter how much they disagreed with it at times. The difference in LoR is that they aren't doing it for the Empire, they are destroying it. They don't want to preserve the empire, they want to build up a 'federation lite' which D'tan wants to then join with the Vulcans. What the Republci does, what Temer's sacrifice was for, is all towards the ultimate stated goal of building up somethign completely alien to the culture and values of the old RSE, and ultimately reunification with the Vulcans. There isn't so much 'grudgingly approaching your blood enemies out of desperation' as much as these Romulans really are that altruistic, self-sacrificing, and freedom-loving None of the Romulan commanders have any interest in any sort of personal advancement, or ulterior motives. In this was they are even more 'white hat' than the Bajorans from DS9 they have been stated as being based off of.
Instead of being machiavellian arrogant and cunning social darwinists for whom 'the ends justify the means' being second only to loyalty to the empire, we basically have the Rebel Alliance.
A Romulan taking the hit and sacrificing himself to keep another Romulan from assassinating a high-ranking Klingon seems a bit of a far cry from TNG where you had a dying Romulan refuse a blood transfusion from Worf because it would 'taint' him.
Context please. It's "A Romulan taking the hit and sacrificing himself to keep another Romulan, who is about to torture, enslave and kill his family and friends, from assassinating a high-ranking Klingon, who is vital to protecting his people against the Romulan who is trying to kill him."
Also the other Romulan in that TNG episode was not above working with someone who would have been killed at birth in Romulan society. And this wasn't about one life like the idiot who needed the transfusion, it was about the whole Republic.
In the various series there were always a few Romulans willing to give up everything for the good of the Empire. no matter how much they disagreed with it at times. The difference in LoR is that they aren't doing it for the Empire, they are destroying it.
The Empire is already destroyed. The people who are currently leading it destroyed the homeworld, sold out its people to their enemies and allowed the Hirogen to hunt in their space.
They don't want to preserve the empire, they want to build up a 'federation lite' which D'tan wants to then join with the Vulcans. What the Republci does, what Temer's sacrifice was for, is all towards the ultimate stated goal of building up somethign completely alien to the culture and values of the old RSE, and ultimately reunification with the Vulcans.
So I guess you would be happier if they would try to ursurp the current unfit leadership of the Empire to preserve it and install D'Tan as Emperor? Yeah, sorry, they are too weak for that, and the Federation and Klingons wouldn't bother helping them.
There isn't so much 'grudgingly approaching your blood enemies out of desperation' as much as these Romulans really are that altruistic, self-sacrificing, and freedom-loving None of the Romulan commanders have any interest in any sort of personal advancement, or ulterior motives. In this was they are even more 'white hat' than the Bajorans from DS9 they have been stated as being based off of.
Survival > Personal Advancement. Only a complete moron tries to ursurp power when he's in danger to be abducted into a torture chamber the next day where a higher rank will make sure that you get extra attention. To care about personal advancement you need a stability that currently doesn't exist. You saw it with Avrak on Virinat who tried to make Nevala look bad, where she said that was because he wanted a promotion. Yeah, Virinat had at that time just reached stability so they went back to that. Time will tell how the Republic will develop when it survives into 2410.
Instead of being machiavellian arrogant and cunning social darwinists for whom 'the ends justify the means' being second only to loyalty to the empire, we basically have the Rebel Alliance.
Yeah, sorry for you but THIS IS STAR TREK!:P:P:P
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Context please. It's "A Romulan taking the hit and sacrificing himself to keep another Romulan, who is about to torture, enslave and kill his family and friends, from assassinating a high-ranking Klingon, who is vital to protecting his people against the Romulan who is trying to kill him."
Also the other Romulan in that TNG episode was not above working with someone who would have been killed at birth in Romulan society. And this wasn't about one life like the idiot who needed the transfusion, it was about the whole Republic.
it was a self-sacrificing and noble death that touched the hearts of the Klingon delegates. A hero's death, definately. And that's all it was. It was there to highlight how just and noble and good the Romulan Republic is, because Cryptic wants to distance them as far as possible from the Romulans of old.
To highlight my point further, you bring up the infanticide ?!?:rolleyes: I think that just goes to show even more how different the Republic is from the RSE in every concievable way.
The Empire is already destroyed. The people who are currently leading it destroyed the homeworld, sold out its people to their enemies and allowed the Hirogen to hunt in their space.
in case you haven't noticed, there is already a RSE. It already exists, Sela is the leader. The 'sold out their people' etc because Cryptic wrote them as black hats to their RR white hat counterparts, made even more comically blatent with the LOR update.
But fact of the matter is, the RSE has had little to no difficulty surviving after Sela assumes power, despite all the self-sabotage Cryptic has written in.
At any rate, the RR is 'selling their people out to their enemies' by allying with the Feds and KDF.
So I guess you would be happier if they would try to ursurp the current unfit leadership of the Empire to preserve it and install D'Tan as Emperor? Yeah, sorry, they are too weak for that, and the Federation and Klingons wouldn't bother helping them.
They could just have been written as a political movement within the Romulan government/military. But having a more complex interaction with Sela and the Tal Shiar other than 'shoot first, don't bother asking questions later' could have 'heaven forefend!' given the illusion that there might be actual chocies at stake here or even soem moral ambiguity. All aboard the Cryptic railroad, choo choo.
Survival > Personal Advancement. Only a complete moron tries to ursurp power when he's in danger to be abducted into a torture chamber the next day where a higher rank will make sure that you get extra attention. To care about personal advancement you need a stability that currently doesn't exist. You saw it with Avrak on Virinat who tried to make Nevala look bad, where she said that was because he wanted a promotion. Yeah, Virinat had at that time just reached stability so they went back to that. Time will tell how the Republic will develop when it survives into 2410.
Slea managed personal advancement while not only surviving under possibly even more dire circumstances, but also managed to revitalize the empire and bring in an era of peace and stability, if the data chips are anything to go by. So none of those points you bring up are really valid, the emprie was stablized up until the moment Cryptic decided to throw everything out and start from scratch for the sake of squeezing a few more players out of that stone by mutilating everything that was at the very core of what Romulans are about.
Over the backstory of the game and the first few arcs of the Romulan arc, the Tal'shiar has done the following:
1. Allied with the Iconians, who are basically the biggest evil in the universe, and the Elachi, who are... well, unpleasant. Profoundly unpleasant. Moreso than the Fek'ihri. Honestly, given what we - and they - know of the Iconians, this act alone likely puts them past the moral event horizon. However, for acts of cosmic evil, the next definitely does.
2. They then DESTROYED ROMULUS. Wiped out a huge number of Romulan citizens, for what has, at least thus far, turned out to be no really good reason. The leadership of the Empire consists of a group of people who committed genocide against their own population, and blew up the center of their culture, in the process of selling what remains of their people - along with the rest of the galaxy - to the demons of air and shadow.
3. Then there's the experiment - kidnapping people, kidnapping Romulans, to experiment on them using Borg and Iconian technology, against their will, for the betterment of... well, of the Iconians, apparently, because the Romulan people sure aren't benefiting from it.
4. Then it gets personal - the Romulan player character is a colonist in the backwater of Romulan space, without any real interest in getting involved in the war. Then the Tal'shiar and the Elachi show up and destroy the colony, kidnapping most of its people for use in the aforementioned experiments that aren't actually going to help the Romulans, and killing the bulk of the remainder, including everyone the character knows and loves except Tovan Khev.
5. But what have they done to ME, you ask, though if you still have to ask that after point 4 you're likely a sociopath. But Mind Games gives the answer to that - they kidnap the Romulan player character, stripping her of her control over herself and her own mind in a scene that's VERY reminiscent of both torture and ****. They commit an unforgivable violation of the playable character.
So... WHY does anyone want to ally with this lot again?
Over the backstory of the game and the first few arcs of the Romulan arc, the Tal'shiar has done the following:
1. Allied with the Iconians, who are basically the biggest evil in the universe, and the Elachi, who are... well, unpleasant. Profoundly unpleasant. Moreso than the Fek'ihri. Honestly, given what we - and they - know of the Iconians, this act alone likely puts them past the moral event horizon. However, for acts of cosmic evil, the next definitely does.
2. They then DESTROYED ROMULUS. Wiped out a huge number of Romulan citizens, for what has, at least thus far, turned out to be no really good reason. The leadership of the Empire consists of a group of people who committed genocide against their own population, and blew up the center of their culture, in the process of selling what remains of their people - along with the rest of the galaxy - to the demons of air and shadow.
3. Then there's the experiment - kidnapping people, kidnapping Romulans, to experiment on them using Borg and Iconian technology, against their will, for the betterment of... well, of the Iconians, apparently, because the Romulan people sure aren't benefiting from it.
4. Then it gets personal - the Romulan player character is a colonist in the backwater of Romulan space, without any real interest in getting involved in the war. Then the Tal'shiar and the Elachi show up and destroy the colony, kidnapping most of its people for use in the aforementioned experiments that aren't actually going to help the Romulans, and killing the bulk of the remainder, including everyone the character knows and loves except Tovan Khev.
5. But what have they done to ME, you ask, though if you still have to ask that after point 4 you're likely a sociopath. But Mind Games gives the answer to that - they kidnap the Romulan player character, stripping her of her control over herself and her own mind in a scene that's VERY reminiscent of both torture and ****. They commit an unforgivable violation of the playable character.
So... WHY does anyone want to ally with this lot again?
I don't think anyone really wants to join these Tal Shiar (except possibly out of spite towards the Romulan Republic for being the Romulan faction isntead of the RSE). The Tal Shiar of old? Possibly-it wouldn't be terribly out of line with options already available to the KDF and FED through section 31 and well-the KDF.
The fact that they made the Tal Shiar and the RSE as a whole (Cryptic has effectively retconned them into being synonymous) what you described is a worthy object of criticism. They have been written and rewritten to be so increasingly evil to the point of nonsensical-ness. The lable of mustache-twirling villain doesn't even give them jsutice in their current state they are so irredeemably evil (a conscious desgin choice, if Cryptic's words are anything to go by) Together with the lumping of the RSE and the Tal Shiar together (Tal Shiar were mentioned in exactly one episode of TNG, and only appeared onscreen in DS9) means that Romulans are split between a watered-down 'federation-lite' on one hand, and an organizationso cartoonishly evil that it that actively does its own species more harm than it does its enemies-possibly *the* least relateable faction in all of STO, worse even than the obsidian order. There is no leeway to play an 'actual' Romulan liek from the shows, like Taris (the non-STO version, at least) or Tomalak. All Romulans are now either complete psycopaths, or secretlely yearning to join the Romulan federation.
As for your last question? Why would anyone want to play the KDF? They kill captives, practice torture, target civilians, including pacifist vulcan monks, utilize slavery and work/death camps, treat their allies as vassals, practice violence first and view diplomacy as the refuge of the weak-all horrible things, yet all within character for the faction. Yet the ability to play Romulans as anything resembling Romulans is denied us.
Initially I had ZERO interest in joining the Tal Shiar, but the lame "farmer Romulans" and "whiny refugee Romulans" have absolutely NO redeeming qualities in my mind.
The Romulans of all the Trek TV shows and movies (other than JJ Trek) have held firm to the concept of their own superiority over other species. Even after a few decades without a homeworld I cannot believe that Romulan culture would change so completely from "We're the best and everyone else is a waste of flesh." to "Oh, poor us! Our homeworld is gone and now we're pathetic and just want to scrape together a meager existence distilling Romulan Ale."
Combine that with the annoying Tovan BOff who hijacks the story with his lame sister issues and the even lamer story about previously having a relationship with that Tal Shiar lady and suddenly there is NOTHING about D'Tan's "Rebel Alliance" that interests me.
My mind has now made a complete 180-degree turn and I want to join the Tal Shiar and destroy every Romulan or Reman who doesn't want to restore the Romulan Star Empire to its former glory. I would happily slaughter Tovan and present his head to Empress Sela ... and if she needs more proof of my loyalty to the Tal Shiar I'll take a Plasma pistol and torch D'Tan right in front of her.
I suspect the dev's wanted to make D'Tan and his team like the "Rebel Alliance" from Star Wars and turn the Tal Shiar into the "evil Empire." However, the reality is that the unbelievable changes in Romulan culture (compared to what we've learned over the last 50 years of Trek) combined with annoying story elements (like Tovan) are making me HATE the experience of playing as a Romulan.
Based on the Beta, even though I've been a serious Trek fan since the early 1980s, I can't imagine playing the rest of "this" Romulan storyline all the way to a level 50 character.
I've only gotten to around level 20 with a Romulan in the Beta and already I want to stop playing!
At this point, unless the devs do a MAJOR rewrite of the entire LOR storyline (which I know won't happen) the only thing the devs can do that would actually make me ENJOY playing as a Romulan or Reman is to let me switch allegiance to the Tal Shiar and let me KILL Tovan as a way to prove my loyalty to Empress Sela.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Initially I had ZERO interest in joining the Tal Shiar, but the lame "farmer Romulans" and "whiny refugee Romulans" snip
Look who's talking. Do you want some cheese with that big block of whine?:D
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Tal'Shiar are a relic of a government that used fear to stay in power, they were the secret police that would drag dissidents out of their homes in the middle of the night, the interrogators, the torturers. Because of the service they provided members enjoyed a much better lifestyle than the general populace, but at the same time, the government they served limited how much power they actually had.
Once Romulus was destroyed that all ended, but like any corrupt police force, power being a highly addictive drug, they had no desire to beat their swords into plowshares and take up farming to support themselves, hence turning to mafioso tactics using fear and extortion to maintain their standing.
Although I don't doubt we have players who would want to play the role of the Kremlin of Russia, the Gestapo of TRIBBLE Germany or State Security Department of North Korea, I am frankly delighted that Cryptic has opted to not let players indulge in such criminal sociopathic behavior, that is not what Star Trek is about and we don't need it.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I want to be Tal Shiar as well being a RR farmer turns my stomach I just hope that I can play as a Tal shiar agent in the future otherwise I will just have to RP as a member once I stop playing the story missions again
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'd rather there be no Romulan faction than there be this "Romulan-lite" faction where you have no choice but follow people who are essentially Vulcan wannabes becoming puppets of either the Federation or KDF.
I played the beta up to Mind Games and when it became clear that there was actually no way of genuinely becoming a deep cover Tal Shiar operative (which would have taken what...two or three different dialogue choices, a few paragraphs of text and a set of 2-3 Tal Shiar missions to satisfy the player?) I gave up and stopped.
When I heard about this game update, I thought it would be like City of Villains and the Romulans would be the bad guys that the Klingons in this game never were.
But nope, you're stuck with Spock's fanboy. There's no choice.
I guess I'll go sit in the corner again until the Borg faction finally come out. And if the Devs TRIBBLE that one up as well by making the player some kind of weird liberated good-guy Borg...well that's when I'll just give up and go be a Sith in ToR. Again.
Gah!! Stop with the Spock's Fanboy diatribes. The Romulan Faction is not about becoming one with the Vulcans and joining the Federation. Yes, D'Tan is a Unificationist. But that's not his ultimate goal. The entire Storyline of the Romulans is about the recovery from the aftermath of the Hobus Supernova. The Romulan Faction is about uniting the splinters of the Romulan People for form a new homeworld, but not under the old distrustful, xenophobic, cloak and dagger ways. And the Romulan faction isn't giving in joining or being assimilated into the Federation. Nor are they going to allow the KDF conquer them either.
D'Tan and the Romulan faction is toeing a precarious line of playing the two Alpha Quadrant powers against either other while fending off the old RSE under the auspices of a power mad dictator who will using anyone and anything to rebuild the RSE in her image. I'm sorry about the minor spoilers in my tirade. But you really need to play through the entire Romulan story up to "Cutting the Cord" before you make a final decision about the Romulan Faction. What you've seen from last on Holodeck and the first few level of the Romulan Faction is only the tip of he iceberg.
Even everyone's favorite (would be) Reman punching bag isn't...well no more spoilers. You'll have to see for yourself. I will say this. There are lots of Romulan flavor extras in the updated old content. Don't just breeze though the missions. Playing them again as if as if it were your first time.
Why do people not get that just because you start in a village, not as a farmer since you never once do any farming, but that you weren't always a villager. You're a refugee and you clearly have military experience, since nobody just picks up a gun and is suddenly a soldier or climbs aboard a space ship and is suddenly a starship captain.
The current setup is about the only way Romulans could be made available and even without the later ally system but as a full faction, it would never be the original Romulans. Those Romulans were destroyed along with Romulus, that's part of the storyline of this game and has been since launch, it's way past time that people accepted that fact and caught up with the current story.
The Tal'shiar are the villains that are destined to be destroyed, the pawns of Iconians that will eventually be crushed, whether by those they are afflicting or betrayed by their new masters, who knows.
The early Romulan content in LoR is actually a prequel to the Romulan episode missions that players already have where Hakeev is ultimately killed and Sela is abducted by the Iconians. It's confusing for us older players having already played through those missions but for a new player it will be a much more complete experience. In the end it is clearly established that the Tal'shiar will eventually fall. That is how the the story is playing out, that's the way it's always been and just turning everything around to revive original Romulans or to secure the Tal'shiar's status will completely TRIBBLE up what's been established in the game here for years.
So the question here becomes; why would anyone want to play for what is meant to be and always will be, the losing side?
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
There is a moment in the Game where there is the perfect chance for the players to go work for the Tal Shiar...
Not all Tal Shiar are pyschopathic nutjobs who sold out thier species to the Iconians and stuck an impure halfbreed on the throne as Empress...
I was playing through rescuing the Enterprise C from the Tholians and I was asking myself why the #$%^ didn't I just stick my Lirpa through Tasha Yar's chest to fix the timeline....
I mean instant prevention of the destruction of my homeworld.
I'm sure the federation would question my choice, but honestly I think they would understand if I explain her going back in time causes the destruction of Romulus and a war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire again....
Not all Tal Shiar are pyschopathic nutjobs who sold out thier species to the Iconians and stuck an impure halfbreed on the throne as Empress...
Some of them are the misled puppets of psychopathic nutjobs who sold out their species to the Iconians and stuck an impure halfbreed on the throne as Empress!
I mean instant prevention of the destruction of my homeworld.
I'm sure the federation would question my choice, but honestly I think they would understand if I explain her going back in time causes the destruction of Romulus and a war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire again....
You don't remember the original timeline so you wouldn't know anything about that and it wouldn't change a damn thing. Taris and Hakeev would still find the Elachi and blow up Hobus.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Yes, it's a pity we are forced to play as farmers and Vulcan wannabes.
It's a pity we are forced to join an organization which main goal seams to be the destruction of the thousands of years old romulan couture.
It's a pity we are forced to join terrorists who trade romulan secrets and technology for few hyposprays and personal shield generators.
It's a pity we have to serve as mercenaries for the federation and klingons.
The expansion should be titled "Fall of Romulus" and the slogan should be "You are the doom of Romulus!!!!"
[SIGPIC]Join Date: August 2009[/SIGPIC] I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
Yes, it's a pity we are forced to play as farmers and Vulcan wannabes.
It's a pity we are forced to join an organization which main goal seams to be the destruction of the thousands of years old romulan couture.
It's a pity we are forced to join terrorists who trade romulan secrets and technology for few hyposprays and personal shield generators.
It's a pity we have to serve as mercenaries for the federation and klingons.
The expansion should be titled "Fall of Romulus" and the slogan should be "You are the doom of Romulus!!!!"
Would you like some cheese, and maybe some violin in the background to go with your whine?
At this point, what I just said is all you people deserve when you start doing that. Seriously, it's well beyond beating a dead horse at this point. Now it's more like kicking the sand on the beach where it's ashes were spread after it was cremated.
Thanks for the appreciation. Your opinion means so much to me.
[SIGPIC]Join Date: August 2009[/SIGPIC] I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
Would you like some cheese, and maybe some violin in the background to go with your whine?
At this point, what I just said is all you people deserve when you start doing that. Seriously, it's well beyond beating a dead horse at this point. Now it's more like kicking the sand on the beach where it's ashes were spread after it was cremated.
Something Ironic about complaining about other people complaining.
Some of them are the misled puppets of psychopathic nutjobs who sold out their species to the Iconians and stuck an impure halfbreed on the throne as Empress!
And what everyone crying because they can't be a regular Romulan don't seem to realize is that if they were, they would always be playing the misled puppets, dancing on the end of Sela's and the Iconian's strings, always living in fear that one night the Tal'shiar might come for them. No matter how long they play the game, no matter how high they advance in rank they would never escape the fate of being nothing more than a chess piece on someone else's game board.
To hell with that.
Give me a choice of being a rebel or a pawn, I'll play the rebel, thank you very much.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
say what you will about RSE or Tal Shiar being misled puppets when in fact Feds have been in that very boat with 8472
and lets see play a pawn or fed/kdf addon I will take pawn
The who? Oh right, those guys. Yeah, they used to be important, didn't they? Haven't heard from them in a while . . . didn't we prove that they were, in fact, only attacking because the Iconians and Tal Shiar tricked them into it?
Don't worry, us Fed Romulans will flush out the Undine in Starfleet by virtue of being even smugger and trickier than they are. And then we can turn our attention to the incredibly obvious Undine in the Empire (J'mpok, Worf, et al).
So, a lot of this thread those who are critics of the Romulan Republic demonstrate 1: They can't Read, 2: Choose not to read or 3: Just complain to complain.
Why? First of all 2 of the people you first meet don't agree with D'Tan on his policies with unification of the Romulans and Vulcans, you can OPENLY in dialogue tell him it's a bad idea.
Someone has already pointed it out, the subcommander (Rank? Name?) didn't blow himself up for the Klingon, but to gain favor for the Romulan Republic. Why? Because he strongly believes in a rebuilt/unified Romlulan Republic and to accomplish this they need the help of the Federation and Klingon Empire right now. (Short Term for Long Term accomplishments) Talk to him when you are at the station after talking with D'Tan.
Why is D'Tan important for the Republic? You just have to look at the TalShiar to figure that out. He's one of the "last" remaining high profile politicians around who's not gone off the deep end.
Every "nation" has to start by coalescing around a Leader. Not everyone agrees with the Leader or the Directions of the leader. He's just the most prominent and able leader who's not TalShiar left. (See US Revolution, Patrick Henry, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton) Donatra is "dead", assimulated, exiled, etc. So, who is going to put the Republic back together? Refugees already have been put off by Sela's Monarchy (Lore, Canon) and well, you need "Someone" for them to rally around, D'Tan serves that purpose.
Basically the ground is being laid for the same political intrigue the RSE was known for, factions will form, the Republic will rise again, and will not need the Federation or KDF.
The short-sightedness of folks...
Now they could have had the choice more clear cutt, those who go Federation wanted unification and those who choose KDF don't want unification, but they didn't. It's actually very ambivalent in your choice and does open the room later down the road to a full third faction.
Those who argue that the Romulans wouldn't ally with the Fed or KDF, clearly haven't heard of the Dominion War or watched DS9, they ally with who serves their goals at the time.
Those who argue that the Romulans wouldn't ally with the Fed or KDF, clearly haven't heard of the Dominion War or watched DS9, they ally with who serves their goals at the time.
and you forget they where trick in to that war :rolleyes:
Comments
It would be just so perfect if the Rom lockbox would include a way to add the RSE prefix to a ship's name. Nothing like contradicting and undermining your whole argument right?
Lets hope they at least make such a prefix unlock account wide, should it indeed be in a lockbox.
Nope, that's pretty much the thing you get. The Romulan Republic isn't made up of raving unificationists but of people who don't want to live under the rule of the Tal Shiar. If D'Tan would just enter Federation space and ask for asylum for him and his people most the Republic wouldn't follow. But he doesn't he wants a strong Romulan political entity again that can meet the Vulcans on equal terms. It's all about Romulan pride, not about their history being an almost two millenia lasting mistake.
Now if you want to play as an Empire, well then you're screwed. The Empire has been sold out to the Tal Shiar, the Elachi and the Iconians and has committed atrocities that will forever taint the name. There will never be a German Reich again either. So look into the future and make the Romulan Republic something to be proud of.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
You already can on Tribble, at least. No function aside from personal taste, unfortunately.
Nicer than the Federation or the Klingons? Okay, nicer than the Klingons maybe. But how much of that is belonging to a hunted minority that is in dire need of allies and how much is actually really "nice". What do the Romulans do that doesn't benefit their own survival. Heck, even Temer's sacrifice wasn't because he especially liked Woldan or thought that killing him was wrong. He did it because it was the only way to convince them to support his people.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
(and me)
In the various series there were always a few Romulans willing to give up everything for the good of the Empire. no matter how much they disagreed with it at times. The difference in LoR is that they aren't doing it for the Empire, they are destroying it. They don't want to preserve the empire, they want to build up a 'federation lite' which D'tan wants to then join with the Vulcans. What the Republci does, what Temer's sacrifice was for, is all towards the ultimate stated goal of building up somethign completely alien to the culture and values of the old RSE, and ultimately reunification with the Vulcans. There isn't so much 'grudgingly approaching your blood enemies out of desperation' as much as these Romulans really are that altruistic, self-sacrificing, and freedom-loving None of the Romulan commanders have any interest in any sort of personal advancement, or ulterior motives. In this was they are even more 'white hat' than the Bajorans from DS9 they have been stated as being based off of.
Instead of being machiavellian arrogant and cunning social darwinists for whom 'the ends justify the means' being second only to loyalty to the empire, we basically have the Rebel Alliance.
Context please. It's "A Romulan taking the hit and sacrificing himself to keep another Romulan, who is about to torture, enslave and kill his family and friends, from assassinating a high-ranking Klingon, who is vital to protecting his people against the Romulan who is trying to kill him."
Also the other Romulan in that TNG episode was not above working with someone who would have been killed at birth in Romulan society. And this wasn't about one life like the idiot who needed the transfusion, it was about the whole Republic.
The Empire is already destroyed. The people who are currently leading it destroyed the homeworld, sold out its people to their enemies and allowed the Hirogen to hunt in their space.
So I guess you would be happier if they would try to ursurp the current unfit leadership of the Empire to preserve it and install D'Tan as Emperor? Yeah, sorry, they are too weak for that, and the Federation and Klingons wouldn't bother helping them.
Survival > Personal Advancement. Only a complete moron tries to ursurp power when he's in danger to be abducted into a torture chamber the next day where a higher rank will make sure that you get extra attention. To care about personal advancement you need a stability that currently doesn't exist. You saw it with Avrak on Virinat who tried to make Nevala look bad, where she said that was because he wanted a promotion. Yeah, Virinat had at that time just reached stability so they went back to that. Time will tell how the Republic will develop when it survives into 2410.
Yeah, sorry for you but THIS IS STAR TREK!:P:P:P
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
it was a self-sacrificing and noble death that touched the hearts of the Klingon delegates. A hero's death, definately. And that's all it was. It was there to highlight how just and noble and good the Romulan Republic is, because Cryptic wants to distance them as far as possible from the Romulans of old.
To highlight my point further, you bring up the infanticide ?!?:rolleyes: I think that just goes to show even more how different the Republic is from the RSE in every concievable way.
in case you haven't noticed, there is already a RSE. It already exists, Sela is the leader. The 'sold out their people' etc because Cryptic wrote them as black hats to their RR white hat counterparts, made even more comically blatent with the LOR update.
But fact of the matter is, the RSE has had little to no difficulty surviving after Sela assumes power, despite all the self-sabotage Cryptic has written in.
At any rate, the RR is 'selling their people out to their enemies' by allying with the Feds and KDF.
They could just have been written as a political movement within the Romulan government/military. But having a more complex interaction with Sela and the Tal Shiar other than 'shoot first, don't bother asking questions later' could have 'heaven forefend!' given the illusion that there might be actual chocies at stake here or even soem moral ambiguity. All aboard the Cryptic railroad, choo choo.
Slea managed personal advancement while not only surviving under possibly even more dire circumstances, but also managed to revitalize the empire and bring in an era of peace and stability, if the data chips are anything to go by. So none of those points you bring up are really valid, the emprie was stablized up until the moment Cryptic decided to throw everything out and start from scratch for the sake of squeezing a few more players out of that stone by mutilating everything that was at the very core of what Romulans are about.
Exactly, and these are not Star Trek's Romulans.
1. Allied with the Iconians, who are basically the biggest evil in the universe, and the Elachi, who are... well, unpleasant. Profoundly unpleasant. Moreso than the Fek'ihri. Honestly, given what we - and they - know of the Iconians, this act alone likely puts them past the moral event horizon. However, for acts of cosmic evil, the next definitely does.
2. They then DESTROYED ROMULUS. Wiped out a huge number of Romulan citizens, for what has, at least thus far, turned out to be no really good reason. The leadership of the Empire consists of a group of people who committed genocide against their own population, and blew up the center of their culture, in the process of selling what remains of their people - along with the rest of the galaxy - to the demons of air and shadow.
3. Then there's the experiment - kidnapping people, kidnapping Romulans, to experiment on them using Borg and Iconian technology, against their will, for the betterment of... well, of the Iconians, apparently, because the Romulan people sure aren't benefiting from it.
4. Then it gets personal - the Romulan player character is a colonist in the backwater of Romulan space, without any real interest in getting involved in the war. Then the Tal'shiar and the Elachi show up and destroy the colony, kidnapping most of its people for use in the aforementioned experiments that aren't actually going to help the Romulans, and killing the bulk of the remainder, including everyone the character knows and loves except Tovan Khev.
5. But what have they done to ME, you ask, though if you still have to ask that after point 4 you're likely a sociopath. But Mind Games gives the answer to that - they kidnap the Romulan player character, stripping her of her control over herself and her own mind in a scene that's VERY reminiscent of both torture and ****. They commit an unforgivable violation of the playable character.
So... WHY does anyone want to ally with this lot again?
The fact that they made the Tal Shiar and the RSE as a whole (Cryptic has effectively retconned them into being synonymous) what you described is a worthy object of criticism. They have been written and rewritten to be so increasingly evil to the point of nonsensical-ness. The lable of mustache-twirling villain doesn't even give them jsutice in their current state they are so irredeemably evil (a conscious desgin choice, if Cryptic's words are anything to go by) Together with the lumping of the RSE and the Tal Shiar together (Tal Shiar were mentioned in exactly one episode of TNG, and only appeared onscreen in DS9) means that Romulans are split between a watered-down 'federation-lite' on one hand, and an organizationso cartoonishly evil that it that actively does its own species more harm than it does its enemies-possibly *the* least relateable faction in all of STO, worse even than the obsidian order. There is no leeway to play an 'actual' Romulan liek from the shows, like Taris (the non-STO version, at least) or Tomalak. All Romulans are now either complete psycopaths, or secretlely yearning to join the Romulan federation.
As for your last question? Why would anyone want to play the KDF? They kill captives, practice torture, target civilians, including pacifist vulcan monks, utilize slavery and work/death camps, treat their allies as vassals, practice violence first and view diplomacy as the refuge of the weak-all horrible things, yet all within character for the faction. Yet the ability to play Romulans as anything resembling Romulans is denied us.
The Romulans of all the Trek TV shows and movies (other than JJ Trek) have held firm to the concept of their own superiority over other species. Even after a few decades without a homeworld I cannot believe that Romulan culture would change so completely from "We're the best and everyone else is a waste of flesh." to "Oh, poor us! Our homeworld is gone and now we're pathetic and just want to scrape together a meager existence distilling Romulan Ale."
Combine that with the annoying Tovan BOff who hijacks the story with his lame sister issues and the even lamer story about previously having a relationship with that Tal Shiar lady and suddenly there is NOTHING about D'Tan's "Rebel Alliance" that interests me.
My mind has now made a complete 180-degree turn and I want to join the Tal Shiar and destroy every Romulan or Reman who doesn't want to restore the Romulan Star Empire to its former glory. I would happily slaughter Tovan and present his head to Empress Sela ... and if she needs more proof of my loyalty to the Tal Shiar I'll take a Plasma pistol and torch D'Tan right in front of her.
I suspect the dev's wanted to make D'Tan and his team like the "Rebel Alliance" from Star Wars and turn the Tal Shiar into the "evil Empire." However, the reality is that the unbelievable changes in Romulan culture (compared to what we've learned over the last 50 years of Trek) combined with annoying story elements (like Tovan) are making me HATE the experience of playing as a Romulan.
Based on the Beta, even though I've been a serious Trek fan since the early 1980s, I can't imagine playing the rest of "this" Romulan storyline all the way to a level 50 character.
I've only gotten to around level 20 with a Romulan in the Beta and already I want to stop playing!
At this point, unless the devs do a MAJOR rewrite of the entire LOR storyline (which I know won't happen) the only thing the devs can do that would actually make me ENJOY playing as a Romulan or Reman is to let me switch allegiance to the Tal Shiar and let me KILL Tovan as a way to prove my loyalty to Empress Sela.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
Look who's talking. Do you want some cheese with that big block of whine?:D
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Once Romulus was destroyed that all ended, but like any corrupt police force, power being a highly addictive drug, they had no desire to beat their swords into plowshares and take up farming to support themselves, hence turning to mafioso tactics using fear and extortion to maintain their standing.
Although I don't doubt we have players who would want to play the role of the Kremlin of Russia, the Gestapo of TRIBBLE Germany or State Security Department of North Korea, I am frankly delighted that Cryptic has opted to not let players indulge in such criminal sociopathic behavior, that is not what Star Trek is about and we don't need it.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You mean the fascist racist Thought Police are . . . evil?! :eek:
WHAT A TWEEST!
Gah!! Stop with the Spock's Fanboy diatribes. The Romulan Faction is not about becoming one with the Vulcans and joining the Federation. Yes, D'Tan is a Unificationist. But that's not his ultimate goal. The entire Storyline of the Romulans is about the recovery from the aftermath of the Hobus Supernova. The Romulan Faction is about uniting the splinters of the Romulan People for form a new homeworld, but not under the old distrustful, xenophobic, cloak and dagger ways. And the Romulan faction isn't giving in joining or being assimilated into the Federation. Nor are they going to allow the KDF conquer them either.
D'Tan and the Romulan faction is toeing a precarious line of playing the two Alpha Quadrant powers against either other while fending off the old RSE under the auspices of a power mad dictator who will using anyone and anything to rebuild the RSE in her image. I'm sorry about the minor spoilers in my tirade. But you really need to play through the entire Romulan story up to "Cutting the Cord" before you make a final decision about the Romulan Faction. What you've seen from last on Holodeck and the first few level of the Romulan Faction is only the tip of he iceberg.
Even everyone's favorite (would be) Reman punching bag isn't...well no more spoilers. You'll have to see for yourself. I will say this. There are lots of Romulan flavor extras in the updated old content. Don't just breeze though the missions. Playing them again as if as if it were your first time.
The current setup is about the only way Romulans could be made available and even without the later ally system but as a full faction, it would never be the original Romulans. Those Romulans were destroyed along with Romulus, that's part of the storyline of this game and has been since launch, it's way past time that people accepted that fact and caught up with the current story.
The Tal'shiar are the villains that are destined to be destroyed, the pawns of Iconians that will eventually be crushed, whether by those they are afflicting or betrayed by their new masters, who knows.
The early Romulan content in LoR is actually a prequel to the Romulan episode missions that players already have where Hakeev is ultimately killed and Sela is abducted by the Iconians. It's confusing for us older players having already played through those missions but for a new player it will be a much more complete experience. In the end it is clearly established that the Tal'shiar will eventually fall. That is how the the story is playing out, that's the way it's always been and just turning everything around to revive original Romulans or to secure the Tal'shiar's status will completely TRIBBLE up what's been established in the game here for years.
So the question here becomes; why would anyone want to play for what is meant to be and always will be, the losing side?
Not all Tal Shiar are pyschopathic nutjobs who sold out thier species to the Iconians and stuck an impure halfbreed on the throne as Empress...
I was playing through rescuing the Enterprise C from the Tholians and I was asking myself why the #$%^ didn't I just stick my Lirpa through Tasha Yar's chest to fix the timeline....
I mean instant prevention of the destruction of my homeworld.
I'm sure the federation would question my choice, but honestly I think they would understand if I explain her going back in time causes the destruction of Romulus and a war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire again....
Some of them are the misled puppets of psychopathic nutjobs who sold out their species to the Iconians and stuck an impure halfbreed on the throne as Empress!
You don't remember the original timeline so you wouldn't know anything about that and it wouldn't change a damn thing. Taris and Hakeev would still find the Elachi and blow up Hobus.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
It's a pity we are forced to join an organization which main goal seams to be the destruction of the thousands of years old romulan couture.
It's a pity we are forced to join terrorists who trade romulan secrets and technology for few hyposprays and personal shield generators.
It's a pity we have to serve as mercenaries for the federation and klingons.
The expansion should be titled "Fall of Romulus" and the slogan should be "You are the doom of Romulus!!!!"
I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
Would you like some cheese, and maybe some violin in the background to go with your whine?
At this point, what I just said is all you people deserve when you start doing that. Seriously, it's well beyond beating a dead horse at this point. Now it's more like kicking the sand on the beach where it's ashes were spread after it was cremated.
I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
. . . one shot my dog. I wish I was kidding.
But you're not a farmer, you're a security officer, so there. Problem solved.
To hell with that.
Give me a choice of being a rebel or a pawn, I'll play the rebel, thank you very much.
and lets see play a pawn or fed/kdf addon I will take pawn
system Lord Baal is dead
The who? Oh right, those guys. Yeah, they used to be important, didn't they? Haven't heard from them in a while . . . didn't we prove that they were, in fact, only attacking because the Iconians and Tal Shiar tricked them into it?
Don't worry, us Fed Romulans will flush out the Undine in Starfleet by virtue of being even smugger and trickier than they are. And then we can turn our attention to the incredibly obvious Undine in the Empire (J'mpok, Worf, et al).
Why? First of all 2 of the people you first meet don't agree with D'Tan on his policies with unification of the Romulans and Vulcans, you can OPENLY in dialogue tell him it's a bad idea.
Someone has already pointed it out, the subcommander (Rank? Name?) didn't blow himself up for the Klingon, but to gain favor for the Romulan Republic. Why? Because he strongly believes in a rebuilt/unified Romlulan Republic and to accomplish this they need the help of the Federation and Klingon Empire right now. (Short Term for Long Term accomplishments) Talk to him when you are at the station after talking with D'Tan.
Why is D'Tan important for the Republic? You just have to look at the TalShiar to figure that out. He's one of the "last" remaining high profile politicians around who's not gone off the deep end.
Every "nation" has to start by coalescing around a Leader. Not everyone agrees with the Leader or the Directions of the leader. He's just the most prominent and able leader who's not TalShiar left. (See US Revolution, Patrick Henry, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton) Donatra is "dead", assimulated, exiled, etc. So, who is going to put the Republic back together? Refugees already have been put off by Sela's Monarchy (Lore, Canon) and well, you need "Someone" for them to rally around, D'Tan serves that purpose.
Basically the ground is being laid for the same political intrigue the RSE was known for, factions will form, the Republic will rise again, and will not need the Federation or KDF.
The short-sightedness of folks...
Now they could have had the choice more clear cutt, those who go Federation wanted unification and those who choose KDF don't want unification, but they didn't. It's actually very ambivalent in your choice and does open the room later down the road to a full third faction.
Those who argue that the Romulans wouldn't ally with the Fed or KDF, clearly haven't heard of the Dominion War or watched DS9, they ally with who serves their goals at the time.
and you forget they where trick in to that war :rolleyes:
system Lord Baal is dead