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Tal-Shiar?
quiiliitiila
Member Posts: 309 Arc User
I tried searching in the sub-forum for my question, but I think I screwed something up and didn't get any hits.
Is there currently a way to join with the Tal-Shiar and not the Republic? I vaguely recall a devblog mentioning that at some point we will get to choose who to side with, but I don't know if that's been scrapped or not.
At one point in the tutorial you have some dialogue with Hakeev, I was a bit antagonistic, but if I had been submissive would anything have changed?
Thanks!
-Quiiliitiila
Is there currently a way to join with the Tal-Shiar and not the Republic? I vaguely recall a devblog mentioning that at some point we will get to choose who to side with, but I don't know if that's been scrapped or not.
At one point in the tutorial you have some dialogue with Hakeev, I was a bit antagonistic, but if I had been submissive would anything have changed?
Thanks!
-Quiiliitiila
Post edited by quiiliitiila on
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No, it wouldn't, because Haveek hates everyone. (but especially you)
And there isn't any way to join the Tal Shiar.
No, I was mistaking the nebulousness of the first devblog about the "three" factions within the Romulan society. Pretty much they made it seem like you would eventually have to choose between D'tan and Sela, but I suppose not
Thanks!
-Quiiliitiila
it comes down too that most people don't want to play VERY EVIL and BAD toons, I know you want too, but i mean in general, and the numbers prove this, (they talk about the numbers in City of Hero's vs. City of Villains, and KDF vs. Fed etc.)
Also the other reason is the story. They want the Tal Shair to be the bad guys... they're working with the Iconians and there up too a lot of bad stuff.
For the horde!
But City of Heroes came out years before City of Villians. And you have to be Fed to get to the KDF. Doesn't that massively skew the numbers? And even if it doesn't, shouldn't the people who want to play bad guys have an option? We have three factions and the worst ones are the honorable opponent Klingons. Is there no possibility of playing a Romulan as a Romulan?
Agreed with this ^^^^
Most people want to be the next kirk , picard,janeway or sisko to live out their fanboy fantasies lol
no it comes down to the Dev don't wont you to play bad guys not the player !!!
system Lord Baal is dead
I could get that if we where talking fed's but not romulans
system Lord Baal is dead
Yeah. It's a long standing criticism of Cryptic's commentary about the low numbers of the KDF.
Some game companies CAN develop multiple factions in a seamless, logical manner. Cryptic's just not one of those companies. What they offer I guess is a bit better than monster play, but it's definitely been a sticking point with the players for years.
Wait until your do the Elachi mission arc of the Romulans. You'll have a deeper understanding of how evil the Tal Shiar and the Elachi really are. When I found out myself, I was disappointed that I could not do MORE masty things to the Elachi.
I won't give out any spoilers, but I love the how some TNG and Enterprise cannon and the resulting extrapolation about them. Now I'm really anxious to lean more about the Iconians
I do agree with some people's comments on the forums the Romulan Republic does not feel like the romulans from the series but more like the federation with out the prime directive, although I agree abiut the Tal Shiar being "evil incarnate" I got that feeling about them from TNG.
WoW is ridiculously grey and grey for morality, though. Both factions are guilty of some pretty heinous war crimes, harboring terrorists, etc., but they both have their share of heroic acts and qualities as well.
It's tougher in STO, because a lot of people are stuck in the mindset that most of the series pushed, that Klingons are either the bad guys or unpredictable and dangerous allies, at best. The Path to 2409 and the in-game storylines do a pretty good job of posing the same grey and grey style choice that WoW gives, but it's tough to break past those preconceptions that fans of the IP have coming in. WoW had an advantage there, too, in that established fans of the IP had the opportunity to get used to the Horde being at least equally good in WC3 and TFT.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
The thing is, is as mentioned earlier in the thread, even with all the intrigues that occur in the romulan story, they arent romulan.. They remind me more of ma and pa kettle from down the road.. great people but, not romulan.. and having to join the kdf or federation?? Xenophobic romulans?? Never, although they WOULD develop political alliances that suited their needs at the moment.. History shows that races of people do not change even with time and circumstance.. Rather than becoming second class citizens to the feds or the klinks, the romulans would determine to rebuild and recreate themselves. From that point of view, the Tal Shiar are still very evil, but completely romulan..
No, the Tal Shiar are still murdering psychopaths, even by Romulan standards. Because, y'know, the majority of the Romulan people are absolutely terrified of them, one way or another.
And the "History shows that races of people do not change even with time and circumstance" line is complete BS. If you were an actual study of history, you'd know that.
The Romulans of old were somewhat xenophobic, yes, but only because of their ingrained sense of self-superiority. Now, the vast majority of them are simply too tired of struggling and living in hardship to keep that up.
And this impression that the Romulans are becoming citizens or such of the Federation or the Klingon Empire is both ridiculous and misplaced. Even in the in-game missions you play, it's made abundantly clear you are allying with them, NOT joining them. You are receiving aide, exchanging technology and even personnel, but it's not a complete annexation. The game takes time to explain this.
Anyone saying otherwise is turning a blind eye to the proof in front of them simply so that they can keep whining about how the Romulan Republic isn't a "real faction" and they're not "real Romulans". And honestly, the litanies are becoming repetitive and tiresome to hear.
Thats funny, because when I found out I wanted to join the Tal Shiar even more....
That applies to the Tal Shiar specifically. The problem, and why I think you see so much bad feeling on the forums amoung those who've been waiting a long time for playable Romulans is that the Tal Shiar =/= The Romulan Star Empire. The Tal Shiar are, infact, represented as directly in (internal) opposition to the military throughout the history of Romulans in Star Trek. The unnamed captains in The Balance of Terror and The Enterprise Incident aren't evil baby-eaters. They have honour, for one thing, and aren't overly inclined to the kind of criminal insanity the Tal Shiar seems to select for. Again in TNG there are numerous examples of non-Tal Shiar Romulans, almost all members of the military or a political body, that don't show that kind of mad cackling evil. Centurion Bochra (The Enemy), Suran and Donatra (Nemesis) who actively decide to prevent the genocide of Earth for no reason that it being wrong, the Romulan Captain (The Chase) who is one of the few non-Starfleet Officials to take a genuine interest in the Ancient Humanoid's message. Even Tomalak in The Enemy has at least part of his motive in caring for his men.
These individuals (and they're not the only examples) aren't raving Tal Shiar psychotics. They're also not happy bunny huggers. They are Romulans. When people, like me, who are fans of the species found out we were finally getting to play them, this is what we thought we were getting. And not without basis - look at STO's Klingons. They've got a fair shake, morally, in the plot (fair enough too) but they are still Klingons. They are still militaristic, violent, honour-bound and aggressive. They will, and do, fight a war over being asked to evidence a statement (a correct one, but that's hardly the point). It would've been entirely possible to allow for militaristic Romulans of the cut of The Enemy's captain, Donatra or even Tomalak as players in light of that, and that's what I, at least, expected. There's no problem with them opposing the Tal Shiar. That's what the Romulan Military spends a good chunk of it's time (subtly) doing.
Even if there were factions within the Republic, that would've sufficed. Donatrist military officers siding with Da'Tan's reunificationists against the common enemy of Sela and the Tal Shiar (and their Iconian backers). The enemy of my enemy, after all. But no. We are forced to play Romulans who think the past centuries of Romulan history was a mistake. That the Vulcans were right. That's......not Romulan, not as they were presented in Trek. And that, obviously, is what people were after. No-one said "I want to play Romulans, but specifically reunificationists.". They said "I want to play the Romulan Star Empire.". Hence the appointment's.
Actually, I AM a student of history and am 62 years old as well.. I'll contest your assertion then..
Look at the middle east.. Theyve been at each others throats since before buddha walked the earth.. They still are.. No change.. Look at China.. When Emporer Qin united the nations we now call china he began a centuries long mistreatment of his people to build his wall, which other emporers followed up on and continued till Ghengis Khan became emporer.. Today, hundred and thousands of coal miners die every year doing underpayed back breaking work in their mines.. Again, no change..
When the people that became america first came to this continent they were the rejects of the world. no one wanted them and most hated them.. I give you todays social climate in where everyone still pretty much hates us.. again no change..
races do not change.. and niether would the romulans..
compaired to the Obsidian order though they are teddy bears, let me put it this way, Tal shiar, Section 31, I think I could take.
But if the Obsidian Order was coming after me, I think I would just eat a phaser.
this post is very true and has made my day
system Lord Baal is dead
SWTOR proves you wrong, considering that the Sith Empire has more players than the Republic. And its not as if the Sith Empire is just a misunderstood empire that actually wants a social healthcare system for its citizens and desires to live in harmony with its galactic neighbors. Instead, you get to do quite horrific acts as a player: unleash biological weapons that leave the victims writhing in agony for weeks before they die, execute unarmed prisoners who plead for their lives by electrocuting them, torture a husband to get info from his wife, then when she gives it kill him but let her live so she remembers...etc..etc..And the vast majority of the Sith Empire players do these things and are max dark side.:)
Storywise I can understand why we don't join forces with the Tal Shiar, but they could have made the option to join Sela (and have Sela break with Hakeev's Tal Shiar or something similar). But then they would have had to create a true third faction with all the extra work that brings. This was the easy way out for them, and admittedly if it is either this or no Romulan faction at all I'm glad they did.
Aid in leading the Romulan Star Empire back to its former greatness.
Join the Romulan Praetorian Guard and teach those epohh loving hippies what it means to be a true Romulan!
I played the beta up to Mind Games and when it became clear that there was actually no way of genuinely becoming a deep cover Tal Shiar operative (which would have taken what...two or three different dialogue choices, a few paragraphs of text and a set of 2-3 Tal Shiar missions to satisfy the player?) I gave up and stopped.
When I heard about this game update, I thought it would be like City of Villains and the Romulans would be the bad guys that the Klingons in this game never were.
But nope, you're stuck with Spock's fanboy. There's no choice.
I guess I'll go sit in the corner again until the Borg faction finally come out. And if the Devs TRIBBLE that one up as well by making the player some kind of weird liberated good-guy Borg...well that's when I'll just give up and go be a Sith in ToR. Again.
story wise only 2 maybe 3 missions really have any thing to do with your ally and they just boil down to what NPCs spawn in big fleet battles or what NPCs you fight in one mission
Then you're going to be in that corner for a very long time, because devs have already stated that if they did do the borg, then it would be a splinter group like Hu's or the one small collective trying to break away from the Borg from voyager.
Personally I would havew rather had a 'monster play' option for the RSE/Tal Shiar, at least then the spirit of things would remain intact. Now we have what is essentially 'Fed lite', except I recall having at least oen mission (the return) where the palyer has the option of actually helping the RSE, imagine that. Instead, what we have in LOR is Cryptic constantly banging us about the head over how good and noble the Romulan Republic is and how evil and twisted the RSE/Tal Shiar is (and it might as well just be the tal Shiar, considering how determined Cryptic seems to be to retcon out all evidence of non-Tal Shiar Romulan military forces) This was painfully evident when you had to decode the Tal Shiar files which basically painted D'tan as an angel who never did anything wrong. I'm happy I got my 1 hour in on tribble, because I don't see myself playing LoR much, if at all, in the future.
Or maybe it'd be too hard and resource intensive?
*Looks at WoW and sees the Horde has a good number of players*
No. Its really not as grey as some would like to believe. Of course, evil is not tied to an entire faction, rather to some races from the Horde that are particularly extra evil.