and you forget they where trick in to that war :rolleyes:
Not at all actually.
Rolling your eyes doesn't negate they allied because it suited the needs for the RSE at the time. They didn't know they were tricked well "It's a Faaaake" Senator did.
The RSE people are clamoring for Died in Nemesis anyway, when all the Senate was killed.
In Unification Pt 2, Spock up and says that the Reunificationist movement is growing too large to ignore, that reunification may take decades or centuries, but is inevitable, and the will of the majority of the Romulan people. Well, now it's been decades, and the military and political system that opposed the Reunificationists has gone up in smoke, along with most of the rest of the Romulan state.
And yeah, they don't say "Tal Shiar" in that episode, but they do say "Romulan Intelligence", among which Sela is shown to be a prominent member, pulling the strings of even senators.
But of course, now someone is going to keep arguing because they think they know more about Star Trek than bloody Spock, and that's where I'm just going to stop talking.
Rolling your eyes doesn't negate they allied because it suited the needs for the RSE at the time. They didn't know they were tricked well "It's a Faaaake" Senator did.
The RSE people are clamoring for Died in Nemesis anyway, when all the Senate was killed.
and just because they didn't know don't mean it didn't happen they joined that war because they where trick plain and simple
and just because they didn't know don't mean it didn't happen they joined that war because they where trick plain and simple
They joined the war because they thought the Dominion assassinated a senator.
The Tal Shiar are using monsters to murder or enslave entire colonies, many of whom would rather die and burn their entire planet than let it fall to an illegitimate Romulan state.
What the Tal Shiar are actually doing is many orders of magnitude worse than what the Federation tricked them into believing the Dominion was doing.
I disagree with the sentiment that "these aren't the Romulans from the show". I've been rewatching all the Romulan episodes and these are very much the Romulans from the shows.
These are the kind of Romulan that wished for death at the hands of Kirk rather than return home and risk a war.
These are the Romulans who openly defected and tried to provide intelligence to Starfleet because they wanted something better for their children.
These are the everyday Romulans who lived in fear of the Tal Shiar.
These are the underground Romulans who were oppressed and unable to speak their minds publicly.
These are the dissident Romulans who risked their lives to smuggle defectors out of Romulan space in hopes for a better future.
These are the kind of Romulans who were willing to risk their careers to help a stranded Federation crew get messages back home.
These are the Romulans I wanted to know more about but sadly didn't get the chance to during the shows.
I get the appeal of playing a villain type (after all I am Sith in SWTOR) but I also get the appeal of playing the underdog.
I for one am THRILLED that STO took this approach because NOW we finally get to explore other aspects of Romulans, not just the mustache twirling bad guys.
and just because they didn't know don't mean it didn't happen they joined that war because they where trick plain and simple
They joined the War becasue they were tricked...but they didn't know that, and they could have just joined the War, but not aid The Federation and Klingons if they were really that stubborn.
SWTOR proves you wrong, considering that the Sith Empire has more players than the Republic.
That's because SWTOR is dropping in population, and its only the guys who like torturing people who are staying. Sorry and all.
And remember in "Timescape" when the Romulans were actively trying to stop the Enterprise from being destroyed? How does that fit in with your "all Romulans are evil, only evil can be Romulans" mindset?
Its the fact that the Romulans were actually multifaceted and intelligent that made them attractive to people like me. That fact that all some people can see is the Tal Shiar as the Romulans pretty much shows that they have pretty much no idea of depth of character and probably have a 2 dimensional personality themselves. Frankly, they have pitched the Romulans just right. From as far back as TOS they showed the Romulans as highly passionate but highly intelligent foes, steadfast in what they felt was right. Sure, they felt they were superior to everyone else (They ARE Vulcans after all) but some of the best scenes in Trek came from the discussions with Romulan Captains where they actively questioned what they were doing.
That's probably why the Trek writers used them so little. Klingons and Cardasians and Jem'Hidar are walking stereotypes and are easy. Writing Romulans is HARD. And lord forbid we write a foe that can actually out think the Federation.
That's because SWTOR is dropping in population, and its only the guys who like torturing people who are staying. Sorry and all.
so what you saying the reason swtor is failing is because you can be a bad guy the same way you could in kotor 1 and 2? I thought it was due to its F2P model.....
But of course, now someone is going to keep arguing because they think they know more about Star Trek than bloody Spock, and that's where I'm just going to stop talking.
That's because SWTOR is dropping in population, and its only the guys who like torturing people who are staying. Sorry and all.
And remember in "Timescape" when the Romulans were actively trying to stop the Enterprise from being destroyed? How does that fit in with your "all Romulans are evil, only evil can be Romulans" mindset?
Its the fact that the Romulans were actually multifaceted and intelligent that made them attractive to people like me. That fact that all some people can see is the Tal Shiar as the Romulans pretty much shows that they have pretty much no idea of depth of character and probably have a 2 dimensional personality themselves. Frankly, they have pitched the Romulans just right. From as far back as TOS they showed the Romulans as highly passionate but highly intelligent foes, steadfast in what they felt was right. Sure, they felt they were superior to everyone else (They ARE Vulcans after all) but some of the best scenes in Trek came from the discussions with Romulan Captains where they actively questioned what they were doing.
That's probably why the Trek writers used them so little. Klingons and Cardasians and Jem'Hidar are walking stereotypes and are easy. Writing Romulans is HARD. And lord forbid we write a foe that can actually out think the Federation.
SWTOR is failing due to its F2P model, that is the only reason.
And its funny you mention they felt superior to everyone else..... I get the same feeling from you, just because some people want to play as the Tal Shiar does not make them 2 dimensional, they just want the option to be the nasty underhanded type...... I see nothing wrong with that.
"People blame the military for the wars we are asked to fight, but I believe it will be your kind, Major, who will be the death of us all."
-An actual "old" Romulan Warbird Commander to a supposed Tal Shiar agent
"The Face of the Enemy", TNG Season 6"
Funny how tiem and again peopel selectively forget how Toreth was going to blow up the enterpirse, or how she had no trouble having her second in command gunned down on the spot when he was revealed as a reunificationist, or how she had no problem torturing Troi for answers. Somehow people seem to focus on her dislike of the Tal Shiar above the literally every other thing she said or did in the episode. yeah, she was an 'old' Romulan all right, and had more subtlety and depth to her than any of the Romulans-In-Name-Only that Cryptic has trotted out for LoR. Personally, I think she's a fien example of the aount of depth you can give a Romulan without making them a mustache-twirling villain or the Rebel Alliance with a new coat of paint.
My Romulan character wants nothing to do with the Tal Shiar. I've made him significantly older than most of my other characters, with the idea that he was formerly an officer in the RSE fleet. In the wake of Hobus, he was ordered to do things by Tal Shiar agents that he felt dishonourable, so he resigned his commission, and vanished into the crowds of refugees to retire peacefully on a farming colony.
Now, of course, he's basically been forced into D'Tan's Romulan Republic group. He's not a reunificationist in the slightest, but he sees that the Tal Shiar are currently the greatest threat to the Romulan people. So, for now, he takes his orders from D'Tan, but his warbird still carries the I.R.W. prefix, and should the Tal Shiar be destroyed, he would watch carefully to see if the Republic became too close to their allies for comfort.
In my mind, Tal Shiar=/=RSE. I think it would have been possible to let people play as a member of the Romulan military, and still had the Tal Shiar as the bad guys, because, let's face it, they're beyond redemption at this point. But, since we're stuck with the Republic, all of us old soldiers will have to grit our teeth, and toast the Empire in our private quarters.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
Funny how tiem and again peopel selectively forget how Toreth was going to blow up the enterpirse, or how she had no trouble having her second in command gunned down on the spot when he was revealed as a reunificationist, or how she had no problem torturing Troi for answers. Somehow people seem to focus on her dislike of the Tal Shiar above the literally every other thing she said or did in the episode. yeah, she was an 'old' Romulan all right, and had more subtlety and depth to her than any of the Romulans-In-Name-Only that Cryptic has trotted out for LoR. Personally, I think she's a fien example of the aount of depth you can give a Romulan without making them a mustache-twirling villain or the Rebel Alliance with a new coat of paint.
She did not know he was part of the reunification movement, she did not have him gunned down, her other officer shot him when he pulled a gun on her and she was defenseless. She wanted answers to who the Major was and at any means, especially being mislead and boss around by Troi I'm sure she wanted payback for that. The Enterprise was able to track them after Troi lead them into Federation space.
What people also forget and have selective memory is The member of the reunification movement killed the Real Major kidnapped Troi changed her face, and put Troi against her will in danger, and this was when Spock was in charge.....space hippies my @**
Not once has D'tan told me to take care of the Tal Shiar with love and flowers pretty much been killing them, and I did sell a Reman up the river to get in Sela's good graces...not to mention I executed Hakeeve on the spot.
What people also forget and have selective memory is The member of the reunification movement killed the Real Major kidnapped Troi changed her face, and put Troi against her will in danger, and this was when Spock was in charge.....space hippies my @**
Not once has D'tan told me to take care of the Tal Shiar with love and flowers pretty much been killing them, and I did sell a Reman up the river to get in Sela's good graces...not to mention I executed Hakeeve on the spot.
Yeah, as an Republic officer, you do get the chance to do some Romulan-esque things. Remember, these are the people the Tal Shiar have labelled "terrorists", and that's probably for a reason.
Toreth was a Romulan veteran Military Officer -The story revealed she had personal and professional reasons to dislike the Tal Shiar -A they abducted her father B She quotes how having the Tal Shiar impedes the Military-The actions she took were based on her duty and to her crew.
This was a mustache twirling cliche?
One curious thing -while we all go on about the Tal Shiar -In DS9 The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order allowed veterans of each to form a joint task force to eliminate the founders-Their governments knew and let it happen -This operation did not further the oppression of the Romulan People and was seen Romulans initially had a treaty of non aggression with the Dominion-here is an example of the Tal Shiar acting on other interests (yes there was changeling involvement-but it was initiated by both services)
"People blame the military for the wars we are asked to fight, but I believe it will be your kind, Major, who will be the death of us all."
-An actual "old" Romulan Warbird Commander to a supposed Tal Shiar agent
"The Face of the Enemy", TNG Season 6"
Good points, OLD hag that doesn't even know how to recognize a real Tal Shiar agent from a fake one (a federation spy without any training). Why do people treat her as Tal Shiar expert? She clearly knows squat and is probably the most incompetent commander in history of romulan military.
[SIGPIC]Join Date: August 2009[/SIGPIC] I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
One curious thing -while we all go on about the Tal Shiar -In DS9 The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order allowed veterans of each to form a joint task force to eliminate the founders-Their governments knew and let it happen -This operation did not further the oppression of the Romulan People and was seen Romulans initially had a treaty of non aggression with the Dominion-here is an example of the Tal Shiar acting on other interests (yes there was changeling involvement-but it was initiated by both services)
This is why I don't get why people are surprised that the Tal Shiar destroyed Romulus.
If you count nuking Vulcan, that's like three worlds the Romulans have destroyed (that we know of), two of which were their own homeworld.
It's like people who are surprised that the organization known for betrayal and murder actually stabbed them in the back.
Good points, OLD hag that doesn't even know how to recognize a real Tal Shiar agent from a fake one (a federation spy without any training). Why do people treat her as Tal Shiar expert? She clearly knows squat and is probably the most incompetent commander in history of romulan military.
Really becasue you know how one acts like being that was the first time we saw them ever at that point.
Really becasue you know how one acts like being that was the first time we saw them ever at that point.
I don't, she clearly doesn't know either.
[SIGPIC]Join Date: August 2009[/SIGPIC] I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
Most people want to be the next kirk , picard,janeway or sisko to live out their fanboy fantasies lol
Seriously? People want to be Janeway? :eek:
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
I want to be Tal Shiar as well being a RR farmer turns my stomach I just hope that I can play as a Tal shiar agent in the future otherwise I will just have to RP as a member once I stop playing the story missions again
Punctuation is your friend. :rolleyes:
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
We could have been REAL Romulans and not Tal Shiar.
My character is actually Tal Diann and we in the military will be getting rid of Sela at the first opportunity. Hakeev and Taris should pay for their crimes.
You might call us Restorationists.
But that does not mean we want to abandon two thousand years of our culture to go chase bunnies and run missions for the not to bright klingons.
But being forced to take part in a Republic storyline just makes me vomit.
There could easily be a faction of Romulans not Tal Shiar and Not Republicans.
The thing that bugged me the most was the Devs putting words in my mouth. Like how D'Tan was so wonderful.
At the very least I would have liked text options that were either Neutral or Negative.
The only reason we are stuck in this watered down vision is to save the devs a little work.
My Romulan character wants nothing to do with the Tal Shiar. I've made him significantly older than most of my other characters, with the idea that he was formerly an officer in the RSE fleet. In the wake of Hobus, he was ordered to do things by Tal Shiar agents that he felt dishonourable, so he resigned his commission, and vanished into the crowds of refugees to retire peacefully on a farming colony.
Now, of course, he's basically been forced into D'Tan's Romulan Republic group. He's not a reunificationist in the slightest, but he sees that the Tal Shiar are currently the greatest threat to the Romulan people. So, for now, he takes his orders from D'Tan, but his warbird still carries the I.R.W. prefix, and should the Tal Shiar be destroyed, he would watch carefully to see if the Republic became too close to their allies for comfort.
In my mind, Tal Shiar=/=RSE. I think it would have been possible to let people play as a member of the Romulan military, and still had the Tal Shiar as the bad guys, because, let's face it, they're beyond redemption at this point. But, since we're stuck with the Republic, all of us old soldiers will have to grit our teeth, and toast the Empire in our private quarters.
just saw your post. Thats basically what I just said. Seems a bit obvious to many of us. And is supported by canon
. The entire Storyline of the Romulans is about the recovery from the aftermath of the Hobus Supernova. .
Maybe we'd be farther along if everyone didnt spend all their time knitting neck scarves
really, we have major planets, colonies and stations.
This entire "refugee" nonsense 20 years after the fact is balderdash. Without fusion power and replicators they chinese have built entirely new cities for millions of people in the same time.
People would not be going around wearing rags worrying about their next meal.
The most likely scenerio is that we would have become MORE militaristic and expansionist since we need room to re build. Probably military commanders would become more warlords in some areas. Kind of like China in teh 20s and 30s
Our weakened state would make us more paranoid and xenophobic and less likely to abibe intrusions by aliens into our space.
If the hippies want to re-unify, nothing is stopping them from getting on the first ship bound for vulcan.
"The most likely scenerio is that we would have become MORE militaristic and expansionist since we need room to re build. Probably military commanders would become more warlords in some areas. Kind of like China in teh 20s and 30s
Our weakened state would make us more paranoid and xenophobic and less likely to abibe intrusions by aliens into our space."
Have you been paying attention to who the TalShiar are?
"There could easily be a faction of Romulans not Tal Shiar and Not Republicans."
They were Republicans until Shinzon kinda had the whole Senate killed, then proclaimed himself Praetor (an "alien" and slave race who rose up). Now Sela sits as Empress (Praetor).
This follows the way Rome went with Caesar and Rome, a fall from a Republican state to Dictatorship.
The descendants of the Roman Empire, formerly known as the Roman Republic, went into Feudalism and now are in Constituational Monarchies, Republics, or some other form of Democracy.
The real question is, who exactly do you think the Romulans are?
We could have been REAL Romulans and not Tal Shiar.
My character is actually Tal Diann and we in the military will be getting rid of Sela at the first opportunity. Hakeev and Taris should pay for their crimes.
You might call us Restorationists.
But that does not mean we want to abandon two thousand years of our culture to go chase bunnies and run missions for the not to bright klingons.
But being forced to take part in a Republic storyline just makes me vomit.
There could easily be a faction of Romulans not Tal Shiar and Not Republicans.
The thing that bugged me the most was the Devs putting words in my mouth. Like how D'Tan was so wonderful.
At the very least I would have liked text options that were either Neutral or Negative.
The only reason we are stuck in this watered down vision is to save the devs a little work.
Have you heard or seen D'Tan doing ANYTHING for the Reunificationists in STO ? I haven't. Not once. When you join his faction as a Romulan he don't talk about it either, except when he mention his past, or how the Tal Shiar said they were terrorist. On New Romulus, is he trying to build bridges with the Vulcan, or rebuild a Romulan homeworld with some external help ? Do you think Obisek (a Reman) would have join a reunificationist faction ?
He put aside his own vision of the future to help the Romulan rebuild what was lost. I think this prove he is a great leader. Obvisouly, if the Romulan are united again, he will probably push for the reunification, but for now, he don't even talk about it.
Yes the Republic found unlikely allies, so what ? They were Klingons allies before. Donatra helped Picard and talked about peace. Also, as it is now, the free Romulan can't survive against Sela, who have a great part of the military with her, and allies (Elachi, Iconians and Hirogens).
A lot of player see D'Tan as the kid in the Romulus sewer, and not as the man he is now.
Comments
Not at all actually.
Rolling your eyes doesn't negate they allied because it suited the needs for the RSE at the time. They didn't know they were tricked well "It's a Faaaake" Senator did.
The RSE people are clamoring for Died in Nemesis anyway, when all the Senate was killed.
And yeah, they don't say "Tal Shiar" in that episode, but they do say "Romulan Intelligence", among which Sela is shown to be a prominent member, pulling the strings of even senators.
But of course, now someone is going to keep arguing because they think they know more about Star Trek than bloody Spock, and that's where I'm just going to stop talking.
and just because they didn't know don't mean it didn't happen they joined that war because they where trick plain and simple
system Lord Baal is dead
They joined the war because they thought the Dominion assassinated a senator.
The Tal Shiar are using monsters to murder or enslave entire colonies, many of whom would rather die and burn their entire planet than let it fall to an illegitimate Romulan state.
What the Tal Shiar are actually doing is many orders of magnitude worse than what the Federation tricked them into believing the Dominion was doing.
These are the kind of Romulan that wished for death at the hands of Kirk rather than return home and risk a war.
These are the Romulans who openly defected and tried to provide intelligence to Starfleet because they wanted something better for their children.
These are the everyday Romulans who lived in fear of the Tal Shiar.
These are the underground Romulans who were oppressed and unable to speak their minds publicly.
These are the dissident Romulans who risked their lives to smuggle defectors out of Romulan space in hopes for a better future.
These are the kind of Romulans who were willing to risk their careers to help a stranded Federation crew get messages back home.
These are the Romulans I wanted to know more about but sadly didn't get the chance to during the shows.
I get the appeal of playing a villain type (after all I am Sith in SWTOR) but I also get the appeal of playing the underdog.
I for one am THRILLED that STO took this approach because NOW we finally get to explore other aspects of Romulans, not just the mustache twirling bad guys.
They joined the War becasue they were tricked...but they didn't know that, and they could have just joined the War, but not aid The Federation and Klingons if they were really that stubborn.
That's because SWTOR is dropping in population, and its only the guys who like torturing people who are staying. Sorry and all.
And remember in "Timescape" when the Romulans were actively trying to stop the Enterprise from being destroyed? How does that fit in with your "all Romulans are evil, only evil can be Romulans" mindset?
Its the fact that the Romulans were actually multifaceted and intelligent that made them attractive to people like me. That fact that all some people can see is the Tal Shiar as the Romulans pretty much shows that they have pretty much no idea of depth of character and probably have a 2 dimensional personality themselves. Frankly, they have pitched the Romulans just right. From as far back as TOS they showed the Romulans as highly passionate but highly intelligent foes, steadfast in what they felt was right. Sure, they felt they were superior to everyone else (They ARE Vulcans after all) but some of the best scenes in Trek came from the discussions with Romulan Captains where they actively questioned what they were doing.
That's probably why the Trek writers used them so little. Klingons and Cardasians and Jem'Hidar are walking stereotypes and are easy. Writing Romulans is HARD. And lord forbid we write a foe that can actually out think the Federation.
so what you saying the reason swtor is failing is because you can be a bad guy the same way you could in kotor 1 and 2? I thought it was due to its F2P model.....
system Lord Baal is dead
-An actual "old" Romulan Warbird Commander to a supposed Tal Shiar agent
"The Face of the Enemy", TNG Season 6"
Just because he said that, it does not mean he is right.
And I want to be the evil Romulan that grows a clone of Kirk, Janeway, Sisko or Picard..... ohhh
I think it would be fun to play as a real backstabbing Romulan.
Hey, you missed part of my quote.
SWTOR is failing due to its F2P model, that is the only reason.
And its funny you mention they felt superior to everyone else..... I get the same feeling from you, just because some people want to play as the Tal Shiar does not make them 2 dimensional, they just want the option to be the nasty underhanded type...... I see nothing wrong with that.
Now, of course, he's basically been forced into D'Tan's Romulan Republic group. He's not a reunificationist in the slightest, but he sees that the Tal Shiar are currently the greatest threat to the Romulan people. So, for now, he takes his orders from D'Tan, but his warbird still carries the I.R.W. prefix, and should the Tal Shiar be destroyed, he would watch carefully to see if the Republic became too close to their allies for comfort.
In my mind, Tal Shiar=/=RSE. I think it would have been possible to let people play as a member of the Romulan military, and still had the Tal Shiar as the bad guys, because, let's face it, they're beyond redemption at this point. But, since we're stuck with the Republic, all of us old soldiers will have to grit our teeth, and toast the Empire in our private quarters.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
She did not know he was part of the reunification movement, she did not have him gunned down, her other officer shot him when he pulled a gun on her and she was defenseless. She wanted answers to who the Major was and at any means, especially being mislead and boss around by Troi I'm sure she wanted payback for that. The Enterprise was able to track them after Troi lead them into Federation space.
What people also forget and have selective memory is The member of the reunification movement killed the Real Major kidnapped Troi changed her face, and put Troi against her will in danger, and this was when Spock was in charge.....space hippies my @**
Not once has D'tan told me to take care of the Tal Shiar with love and flowers pretty much been killing them, and I did sell a Reman up the river to get in Sela's good graces...not to mention I executed Hakeeve on the spot.
Yeah, as an Republic officer, you do get the chance to do some Romulan-esque things. Remember, these are the people the Tal Shiar have labelled "terrorists", and that's probably for a reason.
This was a mustache twirling cliche?
One curious thing -while we all go on about the Tal Shiar -In DS9 The Tal Shiar and Obsidian Order allowed veterans of each to form a joint task force to eliminate the founders-Their governments knew and let it happen -This operation did not further the oppression of the Romulan People and was seen Romulans initially had a treaty of non aggression with the Dominion-here is an example of the Tal Shiar acting on other interests (yes there was changeling involvement-but it was initiated by both services)
Good points, OLD hag that doesn't even know how to recognize a real Tal Shiar agent from a fake one (a federation spy without any training). Why do people treat her as Tal Shiar expert? She clearly knows squat and is probably the most incompetent commander in history of romulan military.
I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
This is why I don't get why people are surprised that the Tal Shiar destroyed Romulus.
If you count nuking Vulcan, that's like three worlds the Romulans have destroyed (that we know of), two of which were their own homeworld.
It's like people who are surprised that the organization known for betrayal and murder actually stabbed them in the back.
Really becasue you know how one acts like being that was the first time we saw them ever at that point.
I don't, she clearly doesn't know either.
I live in an alternate universe, where j.j. abrams and cryptic never existed,
where R.S.E. is what it always should be.
Seriously? People want to be Janeway? :eek:
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Punctuation is your friend. :rolleyes:
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
My character is actually Tal Diann and we in the military will be getting rid of Sela at the first opportunity. Hakeev and Taris should pay for their crimes.
You might call us Restorationists.
But that does not mean we want to abandon two thousand years of our culture to go chase bunnies and run missions for the not to bright klingons.
But being forced to take part in a Republic storyline just makes me vomit.
There could easily be a faction of Romulans not Tal Shiar and Not Republicans.
The thing that bugged me the most was the Devs putting words in my mouth. Like how D'Tan was so wonderful.
At the very least I would have liked text options that were either Neutral or Negative.
The only reason we are stuck in this watered down vision is to save the devs a little work.
just saw your post. Thats basically what I just said. Seems a bit obvious to many of us. And is supported by canon
Maybe we'd be farther along if everyone didnt spend all their time knitting neck scarves
really, we have major planets, colonies and stations.
This entire "refugee" nonsense 20 years after the fact is balderdash. Without fusion power and replicators they chinese have built entirely new cities for millions of people in the same time.
People would not be going around wearing rags worrying about their next meal.
The most likely scenerio is that we would have become MORE militaristic and expansionist since we need room to re build. Probably military commanders would become more warlords in some areas. Kind of like China in teh 20s and 30s
Our weakened state would make us more paranoid and xenophobic and less likely to abibe intrusions by aliens into our space.
If the hippies want to re-unify, nothing is stopping them from getting on the first ship bound for vulcan.
Our weakened state would make us more paranoid and xenophobic and less likely to abibe intrusions by aliens into our space."
Have you been paying attention to who the TalShiar are?
Military States never benefit the common people.
They were Republicans until Shinzon kinda had the whole Senate killed, then proclaimed himself Praetor (an "alien" and slave race who rose up). Now Sela sits as Empress (Praetor).
This follows the way Rome went with Caesar and Rome, a fall from a Republican state to Dictatorship.
The descendants of the Roman Empire, formerly known as the Roman Republic, went into Feudalism and now are in Constituational Monarchies, Republics, or some other form of Democracy.
The real question is, who exactly do you think the Romulans are?
He put aside his own vision of the future to help the Romulan rebuild what was lost. I think this prove he is a great leader. Obvisouly, if the Romulan are united again, he will probably push for the reunification, but for now, he don't even talk about it.
Yes the Republic found unlikely allies, so what ? They were Klingons allies before. Donatra helped Picard and talked about peace. Also, as it is now, the free Romulan can't survive against Sela, who have a great part of the military with her, and allies (Elachi, Iconians and Hirogens).
A lot of player see D'Tan as the kid in the Romulus sewer, and not as the man he is now.