the dam mod adds like .5 extra -armor. from the testing i did, it looks like the -armor in the tool tip directly subtracts whatever armor is displayed in the defense tab. so if you have 20 armor and get hit by a -12, you end up with 8 armor.
the only 'problem' with disruptor is that when they proc, instead of just dealing a -12 to disruptor armor, they give a -24, a double effect for thier own damage. if thats not WAD, it should be. because just the -12 is pretty lackluster. sure, a proc will help the team, but its gunna help you more. its also works extreamly well with DEM3 using battle cruisers, direct extra hull damage, a hull debuff, thats some synergy.
i use other energy types, and given that every single person i shoot at is going to be at a different challenge level, its impossible to say weather disruptor are any noticeable better amount then anything else. a phaser proc removing your shields will cause more pain then a disruptor proc.
I did testing with no armor consoles i was at 2% resist when i got the proc disruptor went to - 40 everything else is - 9 thats only double? Am i missing something?
I did testing with no armor consoles i was at 2% resist when i got the proc disruptor went to - 40 everything else is - 9 thats only double? Am i missing something?
No your missing nothing....
The disruptor proc has worked this way for 3 years....
You will also NEVER ever be running a toon with no armour.
Also why the heck do you not have ANY skill points in armour at all ? Who does that. lol
The average player will have between 30-40% resistance to Everything.
So a disruptor proc on the average target will reduce there points.
What this means is this....
If you had 75 resistance points before a proc (this is nothing but one Neut armour + skill points)... that gives you aprox 40% resistance.
If you get proced you have 53 or so.... that means you still have approx 35% resistance.
LOL look that over the disruptor proc is making you take a 5% hit to resistance. That feels pretty op I guess.
Now lets assume we have all our tac buffs up and we are landing -40 disruptor procs. (which you can only do with dmgx3 disruptor weapons which have other issues btw)
Now you have a 35 dmg resist score... for around 20-30% dmg resistance. Even best case that is still only a 20% reduction in damage resistance.
Now all of this is completely 100% a moot point... IF you notice your enemy is running disruptors and slot ONE anti disruptor armour console.... as the bonus you get from that unit will out strip ANY disruptor proc (even Omega 3 Alpha Go Down DMGx4 boosted).
Disruptors suck... they are quite possibly the worst more situational proc in the game. This entire thread makes me want to CRY due to the handful of good players that seem to think there is something wrong with them... or bust a gut due to the absurdity of the notion that disruptors are OP somehow. lol
That's the thing though. Is it -HDR or -HDRM? From the sounds of it, it's -HDRM...eh?
As far as I know and I have never seen it do a % reduction....
Its magnitude reduction... as such its honestly mostly a pretty terrible proc. A cruiser with 2 armour units basicly negates disruptor procs completely. Unless people are stacking betas and deltas ect... I don't see a disruptor proc alone doing anything really that worthwhile.
Having said that I think some of these people that claim to be getting taken down by hardcore ruptor procs should perhaps check there bars. I would bet if they are in fact not going down any faster then normal... perhaps they also have deltas betas and perhaps even sensor scans on them that account for the real reduction in resistance.
If you can get a targets resistance down a good amount through other means the disruptor proc can start to look not to bad.
I still say its easily countered by one armour unit though... and seeing as everyone is running more of those then they have been at any point in the game... I would say ruptors are worse off then ever before.
so gentleman....gentlemen please may I have your attention!!!! what is your verdict in simple terms is you opinion that they are brokrn ....or they are working as intended .....and im guessing some body reported it on the bug fourm?
?LOL look that over the disruptor proc is making you take a 5% hit to resistance. That feels pretty op I guess?
Now all of this is completely 100% a moot point... IF you notice your enemy is running disruptors and slot ONE anti disruptor armour console.... as the bonus you get from that unit will out strip ANY disruptor proc (even Omega 3 Alpha Go Down DMGx4 boosted).?
That is not what I have been seeing. I fly an armor tank for fun without shields and keep my resistance window open. When disruptor?s proc I keep getting knocked down to 40% to 50% to everything apart from disruptor?s which go down to -5%. I can try and take a screen shot if you like.
A full armor tank cruiser is being knocked down to under 0% resistance. One anti disruptor armour console does nothing.
EDIT: Just to be clear I was taking around a 5% hit to everything but over 50% hit to disruptor damage.
A full armor tank cruiser is being knocked down to under 0% resistance. One anti disruptor armour console does nothing.
EDIT: Just to be clear I was taking around a 5% hit to everything but over 50% hit to disruptor damage.
Ya ok I pugged a bit tonight... and the second there was 1-2 escorts around with disruptors I was taking way more dmg....
Perhaps this does need some more testing. lol
Who knows with Cryptics track recored perhaps some patch screwed something up recently.
Omega Graviton Amplifier doesn't have your attacks do 100% shield penetration. It has a proc that does extra, guaranteed kinetic damage through shields. Your attacks are treated normally.
Exactly. DEM doesn't provide shield piercing either, it just does a fixed amount of 'extra' damage straight to hull. Neither of these effects actually care if your shields are up, AFAICT. This could be the source of the anomalous extra damage.
Was the guy running a cutting beam? Omega Weapon Amplifier can often be a source of extra damage, esp with beamzors.
Ive scoured my UI, combat logs and even the screen during combat, giving no consideration to defending myself, all just to find evidence of doubled tripled or quadrupled proc values.
Other than seeing more than one weapon proc being applied (go figure. Im using seven disruptors and they all have a chance to proc) I have yet to find evidence of the increased proc value.
As well, has anybody tested the other weapon procs?
again what is your verdict? this has been open way to long post it in the bug threads and beat them pver the head with it so they can fix it if it is truly broken
Below are some results from initial testing on the Disruptor proc. All values were taken from the Combat Logs to calculate resistance. "Defense Tab" values were taken from the in-game Status screen for ship defense.
All shots were fired from a Level 5 player using 1 Common MK I Disruptor turret and 1 Common MK I Phaser turret.
The target was a level 50 player with 6 points in Starship Hull Plating and no armor consoles. Energy Damage Resistance was 12.7% and Kinetic Damage at 2% according to the Defense Tab on the Starship Status screen.
In both tests (with and without an Induction coil) the Kinetic Damage resistance was 2% before the proc and -7.6% after the proc. Weapon power level did not affect the magnitude of the proc on the Disruptor energy type.
Now, I'm not saying that the Disruptor proc is broken. Above is the just the facts on how the proc is working in game based off a small test with Disruptor weapons. There are still more tests that can be done at various levels of resistance and tactical console stacking. As well as Tactical Buff Stacking.
But, one thing is for sure, the outcome of the proc does not appear to follow the tooltip description in game for Disruptor weapons. Does this mean that the in-game tooltip description is wrong? Does it mean that Disruptor procs are not working as designed?
As far back as I can remember, this is how the proc has always been working. But, that's not to say that it's working correctly.
It would be nice to get confirmation from a Dev regarding how the Disruptor proc is supposed to work.
Is there no resistance to the disruptor proc, or at least against the shield resistance debuff from the elite weapons?
I used to handle myself okay against my fleetmate who ran regular, or even Advanced, disruptors. But, once he got those Elite disruptors, it's not even close anymore.
I know the tetryon mines got nerfed hard recently, and that Power Insulators works against it. But, no such luck with the Elite disruptors?
seeing as there is nothing more important to survival then shield resistance, its no surprise that a disruptor proc that removes shield resistance is a game changer.
Yea, As many things STO the "Item Info" are not always whats really happening. I was doing a test with the Rommy Plasma DHCs with a good buddy of mine and he has a screen shot of a -124.6 plasma resist from my first proc. Only 1 DHC was used for test purposes.
My fed fleet been running multiple tests and its all disruptors not just the high end ones
Certain procs are better depending on how your speced,,,i dont know bout disruptors,,,but i know flow caps increases the proc on tet and poloran. pols is -25 all power lvls,,my proc for pols is like -36 or something like that.
I've really never been bothered with procs, its nice when they occur but with the introduction of fleet shields you should be way more worried about what weapon type you use instead.
For the rest its just a stupid chance thingy that lasts for an instant, 5 seconds, and in the disruptors case 15 secs.
The only way i think is actually making it troublesome is a 5 man team stacking up the exact same weapon types (Obviously not the ones that do not stack or trigger a resistance like phaser does these days, but polaron will work) focussing that on 1 single target.
Taking into account some weapon setup which gives the highest possible proc chance/minute
Aka Single cannons/turrets or full turret builds. That can get troublesome
I think Pols can go all the way up to -55 or so, perhaps more. Good luck having 5 people spamming that on you. It luckily almsot never happens but you should do some testing with 5 players full spec into flow caps and perhaps a few additional mk xii purp flow cap consoles you will love it!
Yea, As many things STO the "Item Info" are not always whats really happening. I was doing a test with the Rommy Plasma DHCs with a good buddy of mine and he has a screen shot of a -124.6 plasma resist from my first proc. Only 1 DHC was used for test purposes.
no other weapons, buffs ( not even a rapid fire) or special consoles were used..just a lonely single Rommy DHC
No wonder I was getting my butt handed to me by a cruiser running Romulan Plasmas. I was doing fine against the beams, barely tickled my shield. Then the proc would hit me and I'd be dead with full shields.
Also, why is all of your resistances -50%? Do you not have any skill points spent in resistances at all?
I've really never been bothered with procs, its nice when they occur but with the introduction of fleet shields you should be way more worried about what weapon type you use instead.
Elite disruptors can reduce your shield resistance by 25%, I believe. Then you get over double hull resistance debuff against disruptors.
No wonder I was getting my butt handed to me by a cruiser running Romulan Plasmas. I was doing fine against the beams, barely tickled my shield. Then the proc would hit me and I'd be dead with full shields.
Also, why is all of your resistances -50%? Do you not have any skill points spent in resistances at all?
Elite disruptors can reduce your shield resistance by 25%, I believe. Then you get over double hull resistance debuff against disruptors.
Uh I was just talking about the old procs not the new elite ones though.
Uh I was just talking about the old procs not the new elite ones though.
Just saying you should consider worrying about weapon procs.
I had no problems with disruptors before either. Now that folks are getting access to these Elite disruptors, I'm starting to pay attention.
Just bought myself some plating and will probably stop being lazy and equip the Elite shields [ResB] when I'm fighting against a known Elite disruptor user now.
The Damage Resistance debuff proc on Disruptor weapons no longer is increased by damage bonuses or decreased by damage penalties. It is still affected by the target's resistance buffs and debuffs.
I assume this means that the disruptor proc now gives the same debuff to damage resistance rating for all energy types.
I assume this means that the disruptor proc now gives the same debuff to damage resistance rating for all energy types.
Kind of. Resistance resists changes to resistance. So if, for instance, I have 40% Phaser Resistance but 0% to everything else:
-I get hit with a -10% Resist All debuff from a hypothetical debuff power
-My Phaser resistance resists 40% of that debuff, so my Phaser Resist goes down by 6%, down to 34%.
-All my other resistances are 0%, so the -10% debuff has its full effect
Starting Resists:
Phaser: 40%
All Other: 0%
Ending Resists:
Phaser: 34%
All Other: -10%
But wait, you say! The difference between 34% Resistance and 40% Resistance means that on a 100 damage hit, I used to take 60 damage, and now I'm taking 66 damage! I'm taking 10% more damage!
That's correct - you will take 10% more damage across the board when you get hit with a -10% resistance debuff. The tricky part is just that your resistance *ratings* don't all change at the same rate - they vary based on how high they were to begin with. As a general rule, Resistance buffs and debuffs should never be affected by damage multipliers, and they should always be affected by other resistance values. Any scenario in which this is not the case creates strange damage multiplication corollaries around either very high or very low resistance/damage buff edge cases.
Jeff "Adjudicator Hawk" Hamilton
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton
so now its %, it seemed like it was subtracting a flat ~12 from whatever % you had resist in something. oh and it seems to apply twice to disruptor damage resistance. everything else would be -12, and disruptor resist was -24. you could see it displayed in the defense section
Comments
I did testing with no armor consoles i was at 2% resist when i got the proc disruptor went to - 40 everything else is - 9 thats only double? Am i missing something?
No your missing nothing....
The disruptor proc has worked this way for 3 years....
You will also NEVER ever be running a toon with no armour.
Also why the heck do you not have ANY skill points in armour at all ? Who does that. lol
The average player will have between 30-40% resistance to Everything.
That means they will really have 60-70 points of resistance... as diminishing returns applies to resistance....
http://www.stowiki.org/Damage_resistance
So a disruptor proc on the average target will reduce there points.
What this means is this....
If you had 75 resistance points before a proc (this is nothing but one Neut armour + skill points)... that gives you aprox 40% resistance.
If you get proced you have 53 or so.... that means you still have approx 35% resistance.
LOL look that over the disruptor proc is making you take a 5% hit to resistance. That feels pretty op I guess.
Now lets assume we have all our tac buffs up and we are landing -40 disruptor procs. (which you can only do with dmgx3 disruptor weapons which have other issues btw)
Now you have a 35 dmg resist score... for around 20-30% dmg resistance. Even best case that is still only a 20% reduction in damage resistance.
Now all of this is completely 100% a moot point... IF you notice your enemy is running disruptors and slot ONE anti disruptor armour console.... as the bonus you get from that unit will out strip ANY disruptor proc (even Omega 3 Alpha Go Down DMGx4 boosted).
Disruptors suck... they are quite possibly the worst more situational proc in the game. This entire thread makes me want to CRY due to the handful of good players that seem to think there is something wrong with them... or bust a gut due to the absurdity of the notion that disruptors are OP somehow. lol
As far as I know and I have never seen it do a % reduction....
Its magnitude reduction... as such its honestly mostly a pretty terrible proc. A cruiser with 2 armour units basicly negates disruptor procs completely. Unless people are stacking betas and deltas ect... I don't see a disruptor proc alone doing anything really that worthwhile.
Having said that I think some of these people that claim to be getting taken down by hardcore ruptor procs should perhaps check there bars. I would bet if they are in fact not going down any faster then normal... perhaps they also have deltas betas and perhaps even sensor scans on them that account for the real reduction in resistance.
If you can get a targets resistance down a good amount through other means the disruptor proc can start to look not to bad.
I still say its easily countered by one armour unit though... and seeing as everyone is running more of those then they have been at any point in the game... I would say ruptors are worse off then ever before.
A full armor tank cruiser is being knocked down to under 0% resistance. One anti disruptor armour console does nothing.
EDIT: Just to be clear I was taking around a 5% hit to everything but over 50% hit to disruptor damage.
Ya ok I pugged a bit tonight... and the second there was 1-2 escorts around with disruptors I was taking way more dmg....
Perhaps this does need some more testing. lol
Who knows with Cryptics track recored perhaps some patch screwed something up recently.
I didn't notice any difference from disruptors to phasers.
Wait did you die?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Exactly. DEM doesn't provide shield piercing either, it just does a fixed amount of 'extra' damage straight to hull. Neither of these effects actually care if your shields are up, AFAICT. This could be the source of the anomalous extra damage.
Was the guy running a cutting beam? Omega Weapon Amplifier can often be a source of extra damage, esp with beamzors.
Other than seeing more than one weapon proc being applied (go figure. Im using seven disruptors and they all have a chance to proc) I have yet to find evidence of the increased proc value.
As well, has anybody tested the other weapon procs?
R.I.P
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=5607281&postcount=7
It has also been reported in Gameplay Bugs. See the following thread:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=611371
And now for the actual real life dmg tests... Still no results posted anywhere :C
All shots were fired from a Level 5 player using 1 Common MK I Disruptor turret and 1 Common MK I Phaser turret.
The target was a level 50 player with 6 points in Starship Hull Plating and no armor consoles. Energy Damage Resistance was 12.7% and Kinetic Damage at 2% according to the Defense Tab on the Starship Status screen.
Using no Disruptor Induction Coils:
No Proc:
Disruptor Turret,Pn.H6u7d01,Disruptor,,69.2148,79.2974 --> Resistance = 12.71% || Defense Tab: 12.7%
Phaser Turret,Pn.J4rc87,Phaser,,71.5647,81.9896 --> Resistance = 12.71% || Defense Tab: 12.7%
Disruptor Breach Proc:
Disruptor Turret,Pn.H6u7d01,Disruptor,,76.8257,80.4308 --> Resistance = 4.48% || Defense Tab: 4.5%
Phaser Turret,Pn.J4rc87,Phaser,,70.8036,74.6106 --> Resistance = 5.10% || Defense Tab: 5.1%
Using 1 Very Rare MK II Disruptor Induction Coil:
No Proc:
Disruptor Turret,Pn.H6u7d01,Disruptor,,72.2825,82.812 --> Resistance = 12.71% || Defense Tab: 12.7%
Phaser Turret,Pn.J4rc87,Phaser,,61.2333,70.1533 --> Resistance = 12.71% || Defense Tab: 12.7%
Disruptor Breach Proc:
Disruptor Turret,Pn.H6u7d01,Disruptor,,88.5139,91.8459 --> Resistance = 3.63% || Defense Tab: 3.6%
Phaser Turret,Pn.J4rc87,Phaser,,66.6205,70.2026 --> Resistance = 5.10% || Defense Tab: 5.1%
In both tests (with and without an Induction coil) the Kinetic Damage resistance was 2% before the proc and -7.6% after the proc. Weapon power level did not affect the magnitude of the proc on the Disruptor energy type.
Now, I'm not saying that the Disruptor proc is broken. Above is the just the facts on how the proc is working in game based off a small test with Disruptor weapons. There are still more tests that can be done at various levels of resistance and tactical console stacking. As well as Tactical Buff Stacking.
But, one thing is for sure, the outcome of the proc does not appear to follow the tooltip description in game for Disruptor weapons. Does this mean that the in-game tooltip description is wrong? Does it mean that Disruptor procs are not working as designed?
As far back as I can remember, this is how the proc has always been working. But, that's not to say that it's working correctly.
It would be nice to get confirmation from a Dev regarding how the Disruptor proc is supposed to work.
I used to handle myself okay against my fleetmate who ran regular, or even Advanced, disruptors. But, once he got those Elite disruptors, it's not even close anymore.
I know the tetryon mines got nerfed hard recently, and that Power Insulators works against it. But, no such luck with the Elite disruptors?
It could even be balanced to the fed elites heal proccing.
R.I.P
http://s1339.photobucket.com/user/Dnaangel10/media/screenshot_2013-04-20-20-43-16_zps55ff0e5d.jpg.html
no other weapons, buffs ( not even a rapid fire) or special consoles were used..just a lonely single Rommy DHC
Certain procs are better depending on how your speced,,,i dont know bout disruptors,,,but i know flow caps increases the proc on tet and poloran. pols is -25 all power lvls,,my proc for pols is like -36 or something like that.
For the rest its just a stupid chance thingy that lasts for an instant, 5 seconds, and in the disruptors case 15 secs.
The only way i think is actually making it troublesome is a 5 man team stacking up the exact same weapon types (Obviously not the ones that do not stack or trigger a resistance like phaser does these days, but polaron will work) focussing that on 1 single target.
Taking into account some weapon setup which gives the highest possible proc chance/minute
Aka Single cannons/turrets or full turret builds. That can get troublesome
I think Pols can go all the way up to -55 or so, perhaps more. Good luck having 5 people spamming that on you. It luckily almsot never happens but you should do some testing with 5 players full spec into flow caps and perhaps a few additional mk xii purp flow cap consoles you will love it!
Also, why is all of your resistances -50%? Do you not have any skill points spent in resistances at all?
Elite disruptors can reduce your shield resistance by 25%, I believe. Then you get over double hull resistance debuff against disruptors.
Uh I was just talking about the old procs not the new elite ones though.
I had no problems with disruptors before either. Now that folks are getting access to these Elite disruptors, I'm starting to pay attention.
Just bought myself some plating and will probably stop being lazy and equip the Elite shields [ResB] when I'm fighting against a known Elite disruptor user now.
I assume this means that the disruptor proc now gives the same debuff to damage resistance rating for all energy types.
Likely....
Also Note to all the pve kids....
Time to put your phaser resist stuff back on. lol
Kind of. Resistance resists changes to resistance. So if, for instance, I have 40% Phaser Resistance but 0% to everything else:
-I get hit with a -10% Resist All debuff from a hypothetical debuff power
-My Phaser resistance resists 40% of that debuff, so my Phaser Resist goes down by 6%, down to 34%.
-All my other resistances are 0%, so the -10% debuff has its full effect
Starting Resists:
Phaser: 40%
All Other: 0%
Ending Resists:
Phaser: 34%
All Other: -10%
But wait, you say! The difference between 34% Resistance and 40% Resistance means that on a 100 damage hit, I used to take 60 damage, and now I'm taking 66 damage! I'm taking 10% more damage!
That's correct - you will take 10% more damage across the board when you get hit with a -10% resistance debuff. The tricky part is just that your resistance *ratings* don't all change at the same rate - they vary based on how high they were to begin with. As a general rule, Resistance buffs and debuffs should never be affected by damage multipliers, and they should always be affected by other resistance values. Any scenario in which this is not the case creates strange damage multiplication corollaries around either very high or very low resistance/damage buff edge cases.
Systems Designer - Cryptic Studios
Twitter: @JeffAHamilton