and did anyone else think that the romulan shipyard is lame? at launch, there will only be 11 romulan ships that can be acquired without a C-Store purchase. Thats 1 ship per tier, 5 fleet ships, and a small craft. Now I really don't feel like spending $114 to get an extra ship choice per level. And before you ask, I do understand that as a romulan, you will be able to use either KDF or Fed ships, but only up to tier 4, and yes I do know that the klingons only had a limited number of ships at launch, but this is just a lack of effort...
If you look back a few years to Star Trek: Legacy (and yes I realize cryptic didnt make Legacy...), the Romulan faction had easily 20 ships.
Cryptic needs to put more effort into this if they want to make the Romulans a formidable faction. I have a feeling that the Romulans are going to become the new KDF where everyone complains that Feds and KDF get all the good stuff.
Light Speed! - No, light speed is too slow. We need LUDICROUS SPEED!
Ajma420 - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Federation Catherine The Great - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Empire Vladimir - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Rihannsu Empire
and did anyone else think that the romulan shipyard is lame? at launch, there will only be 11 romulan ships that can be acquired without a C-Store purchase. Thats 1 ship per tier, 5 fleet ships, and a small craft. Now I really don't feel like spending $114 to get an extra ship choice per level. And before you ask, I do understand that as a romulan, you will be able to use either KDF or Fed ships, but only up to tier 4, and yes I do know that the klingons only had a limited number of ships at launch, but this is just a lack of effort...
If you look back a few years to Star Trek: Legacy (and yes I realize cryptic didnt make Legacy...), the Romulan faction had easily 20 ships.
Cryptic needs to put more effort into this if they want to make the Romulans a formidable faction. I have a feeling that the Romulans are going to become the new KDF where everyone complains that Feds and KDF get all the good stuff.
Go play them first. They're insanely fun and MIRACULOUSLY versatile. I LOVE my Mogai. You don't know power until you've flown a Warbird.
TBH in canon terms Romulans never had that many different ship designs. The only ships i seen on the shows Were The Warbird and the scout class vessal, maybe a shuttle in an episode or two. Starfleet always had the majority of different ship designs
I think I'm getting a little too far off-topic here...
Fair enough.
To get back on topic, my question is what do you want these singularity powers to accomplish at the lower levels?
I'm currently L16 on my Romulan and here's my feeling so far.
1 to 10:
Plasma shockwave was almost never ready early on, NPCs were too weak to make use of it (they'd die first, or be almost dead).
When I did use it, if it didn't hit bare hull it seemed too weak to notice.
1 to 16:
Now I have a special heal, tbh I haven't even looked at it, because I haven't needed it either.
I understand that it's a bit of a conundrum, low level players have few abilities and low power levels, weak weapons, etc., so content can't be too demanding.
On the other hand most PvE content in this game is so weak and watered down, does not require any kind of a coherent build and along that train of logic these special powers are bordering on overkill (at the early levels).
Sidenote: This touches on why the PvP community generally holds its collective breath when new 'special' mechanics are added. They often have low, or non-existent impact on PvE yet conversely can have dramatic and potentially very negative balance implications in PvP.
The OP is disgruntled to learn that the Roms only start with 1 free ship per Tier. I understand that sentiment, but the Roms are a micro-faction test bed. The Rom ships are very cool, and more versatile then Fed or KDF ships - the Singularity Cores are nice.
Plus STO has changed a lot over the years. The goal of STO now is to get players at end-game as quickly as possible. Thus there's not a lot of need to have many ship choices at each Tier now. You can go from 1 to 50 in less then 20 /played hour now due to the amount of XP you earn while playing.
More ship choices per Tier aren't going to make the leveling experience that much more enjoyable, primarily because Warbirds are more unique and because you're not going to be in any particular ship all that long. Just look at the playtest. There are people at level 20 just from the first couple of days of playing.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
without a filled out skill tree, and a fully geared ship at level 50 with live pvp testing, we arent going to be able to give feedback on the magnitude of the singularity skill effects that is entirely accurate. at current they are better then not having them, thats about all i can say really.
Yes, the Tachyokinetic Converter will get the same buff. I think I'm getting a little too far off-topic here, though, so I'm going to leave further discussion of turn rate consoles and such to other threads.
First of all, thank you for answering that.
Still, that is somewhat relevant to the discussion of turn with the Rom birds, eh? Not that many posts back, somebody said the Mogai turns like a brick.
For my guy:
@32/25 Eng Power - it's got a Turn of 17.5 @99/100 Eng Power - it's got a Turn of 24.9
That's with no RCS consoles. If I add one (Blue Mk VI +22.5%):
@32/25 Eng Power - it's got a Turn of 20.0 @99/100 Eng Power - it's got a Turn of 27.4
That's with no points in Impulse Thrusters, no points in Engine Performance, an Impulse instead of a Hyper-Impulse Engine, not while cloaked, not using Attack Pattern Omega, not using Attack Pattern Alpha, not using Evasive Maneuvers, not using Emergency Power to Engines, only level 30, Mk VI gear, etc, etc, etc.
As dalnar's mentioned a couple (a few? heh, several? in multiple threads) times, one of the reasons for the DHC's increased damage is because of its limited arc. That 45 arc should provide a challenge and those that meet that challenge are rewarded with the greater damage the DHCs can provide.
What should that base be? What should the turn be for a ship without any effort outside of the most basic gearing, eh? If a person wants to turn better, shouldn't it be a case of making that investment in turning better? Skills, gear, abilities?
And it's not just that either, is it? Chroniton torps/mines, tractor beams, tractor mines, warp plasma, theta, targeting engine subsystem, viral matrix, grav wells, etc, etc, etc. There are other things that can be done to reduce the movement of a target (whether in PvE or PvP) for a ship that might not be able to turn like a top, no?
It's a MMO - endgame content is pretty much team content. So with the combination of what the person wanting to turn zippitydoodah can bring and what somebody else on the team can bring to make targets move like a slug...what kind of turn is actually needed?
Here's some turn stats on my other guys (ordered by ascending base turn and then alphabetically)...
Mirror Vo'Quv @ 33/25 Eng (no RCS/Tachyo - Hyper Mk XII [Aux][Spd][Turn] - 6 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 5.0
1/4 Imp - 6.5
APO - 8.7
APA - 8.8
EM - 13.0
Mirror Star @ 50/25 Eng (no RCS/Tachyo - Jem Mk XI Engine - 9 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 7.0
1/4 Imp - 11.4
EPS - 12.6
EM - 29.1
EPS+EM - 32.1
Mirror Vor'cha @ 55/25 Eng (no RCS/Tachyo - Jem Mk XI Engine - 9 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 10.0
1/4 Imp - 18.0
EPS - 20.2
EM - 50.0
EPS+EM - 54.4
Chel Grett @ 54/24 Eng (Tachyo - Aegis Engine - 9 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 13.0
1/4 Imp - 25.6
EPS - 29.1
APO - 41.2
EM - 71.2
EPS+EM - 78.1
JHEC @ 50/30 Eng (Tachyo - Aegis Engine - 9 SIT/3 SEP)
Base - 13.0
1/4 Imp - 25.1
EPS - 28.4
FMG - 29.1
APO - 35.7
EM - 69.3
EPS+EM - 76.3
Mirror Deep @ 43/25 Eng (RCS Mk XI - Jem Mk XI Engine - 6 SIT/3 SEP)
Base - 13.0
1/4 Imp - 26.1
EM - 67.4
Mirror Advanced @ 47/25 Eng (no RCS/Tachyo - Jem Mk XI Engine - 9 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 16.0
1/4 Imp - 29.7
APA - 44.5
APO - 48.8
EM - 85.7
Hegh'ta @ 50/25 (RCS Mk XI - Breen Mk XI Engine - 6 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 21.0
1/4 Imp - 44.1
EM - 124.0
Some will notice how I listed the buffs, only combining certain buffs. That's because certain buffs override (do not stack) other buffs. If you APA, then APO - the APO overrides the APA buff - then EM - it overrides the APO buff...as far as the turn is concerned. It's about buff cycling/management.
Some may have noticed the numbers appear off here and there. Look at the two Tacs, eh? One gets a better boost out of APA than APO while the other gets a better boost out of APO than APA?
It's not just the Attack Patterns that buffs the APO buff - it's also Engine Power (with DR, mind you). It's something folks might not consider while building their toons or playing. You could have two guys with the exact same builds outside of points spent in Warp Core Efficiency/Potential - and - the guy with the lower Engine Power is going to get less of a buff from their APO. It's something to keep in mind with the -10 Engine Power that the Warbirds are getting too...
...which is where it does kind of stay on topic, imho, even though it kind of goes all over the place. These ships aren't a separate game. Determining their turn rates (including whatever changes are made to other gear/mechanics) - is still going to be part of STO - affect the rest of STO. Trying to get the Warbirds to a certain point will affect where the current ships already are.
Which goes back to the question - what effort should be involved for somebody to keep those DHCs on target? What effort from the individual and what effort from the team? What should be the base? Look at my Hegh'ta up there, eh? That 1/4 Impulse vs. what some of the other guys need APO to get near. Then the number for the EM? Wheeeeeeeeee!
It's like the changes that were made to the Subterfuge BOFFs - where it was realized that the % instead of a flat bonus could provide some whacky scaling issues. The same has been an issue with Turn. All those Cruiser guys complaining about the Escort guys...
...so when somebody says that something turns like a brick that you don't believe should be turning like a brick, ask them what their build is - what their Eng Power is at - what abilities they're using...so it doesn't turn like a brick. If it's something that should turn like a brick but it is turning more like a stack of bricks - again, what is the person doing? Then adjustments can be made, no?
There are so many variables involved with so many of the elements in STO. Some are trying to do everything they can to make something happen - and - it's just not happening. Some just expect everything to happen at a baseline and not have to do anything. It seems that Cryptic has been fostering more to the latter crowd in the past year or so than the former. I get it, casual players - more revenue - it keeps the game around and that's a good thing. Still though...one does continue to hope for a little more balance...
The OP is disgruntled to learn that the Roms only start with 1 free ship per Tier. I understand that sentiment, but the Roms are a micro-faction test bed. The Rom ships are very cool, and more versatile then Fed or KDF ships - the Singularity Cores are nice.
Plus STO has changed a lot over the years. The goal of STO now is to get players at end-game as quickly as possible. Thus there's not a lot of need to have many ship choices at each Tier now. You can go from 1 to 50 in less then 20 /played hour now due to the amount of XP you earn while playing.
More ship choices per Tier aren't going to make the leveling experience that much more enjoyable, primarily because Warbirds are more unique and because you're not going to be in any particular ship all that long. Just look at the playtest. There are people at level 20 just from the first couple of days of playing.
I'm alright with it though i wish there were some remen designed ships not just skins, though I'm looking forward to them. But honestly what disappointing me the most about warbirds is the lack of variants. To let me customize my ship to be fairly unique.
But that's my only grip about my mogai turns fast and dishes some lovely damage , can't wait fly other ships or hopefully get a hold of a scimitar.
But honestly what disappointing me the most about warbirds is the lack of variants. To let me customize my ship to be fairly unique.
Have to keep in mind the ships we see in the vendor are placeholders for some of the variants. Based on the blogs - it looks like there will be additional kitbash pieces available from the Refits and Retrofits. Add in the skin from the Fleet version...there should be additional options if one has the Refit/Retrofit/Fleet to customize their ship in comparison to what others are flying...er...I hope.
Turn-Rate issue:
Perhaps consider the Odyssey/Bortas console set bonus too?
Additionally, perhaps an "inertia" value bonus could be implemented along with that? I mind slow turn rate much less than skidding. >_>
Back to topic:
I don't test on Tribble as of yet, but I'm noticed from what clips have been uploaded to Youtube the way the singularity cores have been performing.
One change I'm surprised doesn't seem to have been considered with the singularity mechanic would be to make it more granular. After all... don't you have five 'ticks' to fill? Respective powers tied to the singularity cores could perhaps only consume part of the meter rather than all of it. That way, you get more mileage out of something like Plasma shockwave, faster, and might be able to pull off more than one in a row if you had accumulated a charge (as in, it'd consume 20% of the gauge and have it's full effectiveness).
* * *
Another point I noticed was how more-involved battles tended to only last long enough to creep up to around 40% of the gauge, only to see it end with the accumulated energy unused and then largely petter out by the time the warbird closed in on other targets. Couldn't it be envisioned that the charge could stay?
As I see it, people have a tendency to try to hoard things which aren't complete, rather than go for a half-assed effect... which is probably why you don't end up seeing players use their core abilities around 20-30-40%. And if they do, they aren't impressed. Contributing to that is how it doesn't carry over from fight to fight even if you did save it, since it goes down at a quick clip.
Considering that, and the present theme that the singularity core builds up a charge when the ship is at 'high activity'... maybe it'd be a good idea to have the Romulan cloak contribute to also build up the charge? That way, a warbird could at least cloak between fights and preserve said stored energy... and maybe even build it up some too (cloaking takes a lot of power, so, it fits the theme). On top of that, it adds the great benefit (IMHO) to emphasizing the importance and value of cloaking for the Romulan Warbirds.
Ships turn at 3 only when they're not in motion, or when their movement stats are being looked at while you're on the ground. The Dhelan is actually supposed to be pretty nimble.
I'm curious to see what some of the BOFF layout changes are going to involve for the various refits/retrofits of the different ships.
Some of the changes to Sci ability arcs in the recent Tribble notes would fit in with some of the slower turning birds we're looking at though...so perhaps that's coming down the line.
I'm curious to see what some of the BOFF layout changes are going to involve for the various refits/retrofits of the different ships.
Some of the changes to Sci ability arcs in the recent Tribble notes would fit in with some of the slower turning birds we're looking at though...so perhaps that's coming down the line.
ty much, but doesent that seem a little lop sided virus?? that t5 is the only way to get a sci focused ship? I mena some folks aren't in a fleet im thinking about them
Noticed the same as the first post that there is not really an explanation of the singularity mechanic at all.
Just the icon that ramps up to five and then you can fire off an ability from it.
But no idea if not firing it benefits you in any way at all.
I like the graphics on the starter ship and am really having a fun time flying it.
But seems to me that I am beating some "heavier" looking ships that I realistically shouldn't be (of course that is prob true of all the factions.)
ty much, but doesent that seem a little lop sided virus?? that t5 is the only way to get a sci focused ship? I mena some folks aren't in a fleet im thinking about them
Massively lopsided imho...
I was planning on rolling two Sci. At this point, I'm seeing either Tac or Eng. I'm hoping that the widening arcs is suggesting that we'll see more as they release more.
As for singularity core, I still think the cooldown on the charge should scale based on what rank of ability you fire off, and you should be able to fire off weaker versions to retain a partial charge. That could possibly mitigate some of the issues we have currently.
This was actually from today's notes - but I wanted to reply to it in this thread.
It is something I was wondering about to an extent, in regard to the cooldown. Whether there would be a way to reduce the CD if using a lower rank of the ability without turning it into something where folks just spam the lowest tier over and over. Perhaps even if it meant raising the CD at a higher level, eh?
R1 30s
R2 45s
R3 60s
R4 75s
R5 90s
I don't know - still thinking more about how those BOFF layouts are going to play out.
This was actually from today's notes - but I wanted to reply to it in this thread.
It is something I was wondering about to an extent, in regard to the cooldown. Whether there would be a way to reduce the CD if using a lower rank of the ability without turning it into something where folks just spam the lowest tier over and over. Perhaps even if it meant raising the CD at a higher level, eh?
R1 30s
R2 45s
R3 60s
R4 75s
R5 90s
I don't know - still thinking more about how those BOFF layouts are going to play out.
Not disagreeing with this, but if this is the case, then I think they would have to allow the Singularity to begin recharging whilst in cooldown, as it can take several seconds until it builds up a charge up to level 5. If you increase the cooldowns too far without taking that into account, not only does it add to the penalty of decreased power levels, but your most useful benefit from it is largely unusable. When many of the games best skills only have a 30-45 second timer, I'm not sure this favors balance.
How long does it take to reach full charge with the new change where it charges by itself independent of weapons?
Before it could take anywhere from 30 to 120 seconds depending on your weapons loadout (as it was based on firing weapons more = faster and cannons also charged faster than beams).
I think 90s second is a bit steep as well, maybe the cooldown duration should increase by 10 seconds each level rather than 15, thent he times are 30 seconds to 70 seconds based on level.
Not disagreeing with this, but if this is the case, then I think they would have to allow the Singularity to begin recharging whilst in cooldown, as it can take several seconds until it builds up a charge up to level 5. If you increase the cooldowns too far without taking that into account, not only does it add to the penalty of decreased power levels, but your most useful benefit from it is largely unusable. When many of the games best skills only have a 30-45 second timer, I'm not sure this favors balance.
Well, it was more a case that my first thing had the R1 at 10s...spammage.
Though, to an extent - that minute CD whether it is 1-5 - will get us to think more about when we do use it. Do we use it - do we wait - if we use it, we're going to have to wait.
It's a common mechanic in several games out there...but for the life of me, I can't remember if they worked differently.
THe other problem which is partially why I suggested being able to choose which level you fire it at is the fact that say you do wait till level 5 but you're only in a small jam, and tier 5 is more than you need.
If you only need level 3, fire level 3 and pay level 3s cost, then you have to wait less time and you still have som power saved up. it also means you could combine stuff, say fire off a level 3 quantum absorption and then level 2 warp shadow (though it would put your core on cooldown longer than a single level 5).
Hrmmm, I know we haven't had the chance to fly certain ships yet - but folks have flown some of the ships that those BOFF layouts/Console layouts are based on.
The T5 D'Deridex Retrofit...has the BOFFs/Consoles of a Mirror Vor'cha.
The T5 Ha'apax (RA)...has the BOFFs/Consoles of a non-Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit.
Those will be...ahem...interesting with the reduced turn rate in comparison. Will definitely be something one would have to fly. It just seems off.
Hrmmm, I know we haven't had the chance to fly certain ships yet - but folks have flown some of the ships that those BOFF layouts/Console layouts are based on.
The T5 D'Deridex Retrofit...has the BOFFs/Consoles of a Mirror Vor'cha.
The T5 Ha'apax (RA)...has the BOFFs/Consoles of a non-Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit.
Those will be...ahem...interesting with the reduced turn rate in comparison. Will definitely be something one would have to fly. It just seems off.
those setups are as much of a joke as the original
Comments
http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=869551
and did anyone else think that the romulan shipyard is lame? at launch, there will only be 11 romulan ships that can be acquired without a C-Store purchase. Thats 1 ship per tier, 5 fleet ships, and a small craft. Now I really don't feel like spending $114 to get an extra ship choice per level. And before you ask, I do understand that as a romulan, you will be able to use either KDF or Fed ships, but only up to tier 4, and yes I do know that the klingons only had a limited number of ships at launch, but this is just a lack of effort...
If you look back a few years to Star Trek: Legacy (and yes I realize cryptic didnt make Legacy...), the Romulan faction had easily 20 ships.
Cryptic needs to put more effort into this if they want to make the Romulans a formidable faction. I have a feeling that the Romulans are going to become the new KDF where everyone complains that Feds and KDF get all the good stuff.
Ajma420 - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Federation
Catherine The Great - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Empire
Vladimir - Lv 50 Tac - Pride of the Rihannsu Empire
Go play them first. They're insanely fun and MIRACULOUSLY versatile. I LOVE my Mogai. You don't know power until you've flown a Warbird.
Heh, my Mogai can take down a TOS constitution fitted with T5 gear OR a pretty decent Dhelan captain without too much modification.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
"You don't know power until your flown a warbird"
TBH in canon terms Romulans never had that many different ship designs. The only ships i seen on the shows Were The Warbird and the scout class vessal, maybe a shuttle in an episode or two. Starfleet always had the majority of different ship designs
Fair enough.
To get back on topic, my question is what do you want these singularity powers to accomplish at the lower levels?
I'm currently L16 on my Romulan and here's my feeling so far.
1 to 10:
Plasma shockwave was almost never ready early on, NPCs were too weak to make use of it (they'd die first, or be almost dead).
When I did use it, if it didn't hit bare hull it seemed too weak to notice.
1 to 16:
Now I have a special heal, tbh I haven't even looked at it, because I haven't needed it either.
I understand that it's a bit of a conundrum, low level players have few abilities and low power levels, weak weapons, etc., so content can't be too demanding.
On the other hand most PvE content in this game is so weak and watered down, does not require any kind of a coherent build and along that train of logic these special powers are bordering on overkill (at the early levels).
Sidenote: This touches on why the PvP community generally holds its collective breath when new 'special' mechanics are added. They often have low, or non-existent impact on PvE yet conversely can have dramatic and potentially very negative balance implications in PvP.
Plus STO has changed a lot over the years. The goal of STO now is to get players at end-game as quickly as possible. Thus there's not a lot of need to have many ship choices at each Tier now. You can go from 1 to 50 in less then 20 /played hour now due to the amount of XP you earn while playing.
More ship choices per Tier aren't going to make the leveling experience that much more enjoyable, primarily because Warbirds are more unique and because you're not going to be in any particular ship all that long. Just look at the playtest. There are people at level 20 just from the first couple of days of playing.
Be patient.
First of all, thank you for answering that.
Still, that is somewhat relevant to the discussion of turn with the Rom birds, eh? Not that many posts back, somebody said the Mogai turns like a brick.
For my guy:
@32/25 Eng Power - it's got a Turn of 17.5
@99/100 Eng Power - it's got a Turn of 24.9
That's with no RCS consoles. If I add one (Blue Mk VI +22.5%):
@32/25 Eng Power - it's got a Turn of 20.0
@99/100 Eng Power - it's got a Turn of 27.4
That's with no points in Impulse Thrusters, no points in Engine Performance, an Impulse instead of a Hyper-Impulse Engine, not while cloaked, not using Attack Pattern Omega, not using Attack Pattern Alpha, not using Evasive Maneuvers, not using Emergency Power to Engines, only level 30, Mk VI gear, etc, etc, etc.
As dalnar's mentioned a couple (a few? heh, several? in multiple threads) times, one of the reasons for the DHC's increased damage is because of its limited arc. That 45 arc should provide a challenge and those that meet that challenge are rewarded with the greater damage the DHCs can provide.
What should that base be? What should the turn be for a ship without any effort outside of the most basic gearing, eh? If a person wants to turn better, shouldn't it be a case of making that investment in turning better? Skills, gear, abilities?
And it's not just that either, is it? Chroniton torps/mines, tractor beams, tractor mines, warp plasma, theta, targeting engine subsystem, viral matrix, grav wells, etc, etc, etc. There are other things that can be done to reduce the movement of a target (whether in PvE or PvP) for a ship that might not be able to turn like a top, no?
It's a MMO - endgame content is pretty much team content. So with the combination of what the person wanting to turn zippitydoodah can bring and what somebody else on the team can bring to make targets move like a slug...what kind of turn is actually needed?
Here's some turn stats on my other guys (ordered by ascending base turn and then alphabetically)...
Mirror Vo'Quv @ 33/25 Eng (no RCS/Tachyo - Hyper Mk XII [Aux][Spd][Turn] - 6 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 5.0
1/4 Imp - 6.5
APO - 8.7
APA - 8.8
EM - 13.0
Mirror Star @ 50/25 Eng (no RCS/Tachyo - Jem Mk XI Engine - 9 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 7.0
1/4 Imp - 11.4
EPS - 12.6
EM - 29.1
EPS+EM - 32.1
Mirror Vor'cha @ 55/25 Eng (no RCS/Tachyo - Jem Mk XI Engine - 9 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 10.0
1/4 Imp - 18.0
EPS - 20.2
EM - 50.0
EPS+EM - 54.4
Chel Grett @ 54/24 Eng (Tachyo - Aegis Engine - 9 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 13.0
1/4 Imp - 25.6
EPS - 29.1
APO - 41.2
EM - 71.2
EPS+EM - 78.1
JHEC @ 50/30 Eng (Tachyo - Aegis Engine - 9 SIT/3 SEP)
Base - 13.0
1/4 Imp - 25.1
EPS - 28.4
FMG - 29.1
APO - 35.7
EM - 69.3
EPS+EM - 76.3
Mirror Deep @ 43/25 Eng (RCS Mk XI - Jem Mk XI Engine - 6 SIT/3 SEP)
Base - 13.0
1/4 Imp - 26.1
EM - 67.4
Mirror Advanced @ 47/25 Eng (no RCS/Tachyo - Jem Mk XI Engine - 9 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 16.0
1/4 Imp - 29.7
APA - 44.5
APO - 48.8
EM - 85.7
Hegh'ta @ 50/25 (RCS Mk XI - Breen Mk XI Engine - 6 SIT/6 SEP)
Base - 21.0
1/4 Imp - 44.1
EM - 124.0
Some will notice how I listed the buffs, only combining certain buffs. That's because certain buffs override (do not stack) other buffs. If you APA, then APO - the APO overrides the APA buff - then EM - it overrides the APO buff...as far as the turn is concerned. It's about buff cycling/management.
Some may have noticed the numbers appear off here and there. Look at the two Tacs, eh? One gets a better boost out of APA than APO while the other gets a better boost out of APO than APA?
Mirror Vo'Quv (84 Attack Patterns - APA3 +113.6% - APO1 +110.3%)
Mirror Advanced (84 Attack Patterns - APA3 +113.6% - APO1 +146.9%)
What's the APO1 for the other two guys with it?
Chel Grett (84 Attack Patterns - APO1 +155.3%)
JHEC (0 Attack Patterns - APO1 +106.0%)
It's not just the Attack Patterns that buffs the APO buff - it's also Engine Power (with DR, mind you). It's something folks might not consider while building their toons or playing. You could have two guys with the exact same builds outside of points spent in Warp Core Efficiency/Potential - and - the guy with the lower Engine Power is going to get less of a buff from their APO. It's something to keep in mind with the -10 Engine Power that the Warbirds are getting too...
...which is where it does kind of stay on topic, imho, even though it kind of goes all over the place. These ships aren't a separate game. Determining their turn rates (including whatever changes are made to other gear/mechanics) - is still going to be part of STO - affect the rest of STO. Trying to get the Warbirds to a certain point will affect where the current ships already are.
Which goes back to the question - what effort should be involved for somebody to keep those DHCs on target? What effort from the individual and what effort from the team? What should be the base? Look at my Hegh'ta up there, eh? That 1/4 Impulse vs. what some of the other guys need APO to get near. Then the number for the EM? Wheeeeeeeeee!
It's like the changes that were made to the Subterfuge BOFFs - where it was realized that the % instead of a flat bonus could provide some whacky scaling issues. The same has been an issue with Turn. All those Cruiser guys complaining about the Escort guys...
...so when somebody says that something turns like a brick that you don't believe should be turning like a brick, ask them what their build is - what their Eng Power is at - what abilities they're using...so it doesn't turn like a brick. If it's something that should turn like a brick but it is turning more like a stack of bricks - again, what is the person doing? Then adjustments can be made, no?
There are so many variables involved with so many of the elements in STO. Some are trying to do everything they can to make something happen - and - it's just not happening. Some just expect everything to happen at a baseline and not have to do anything. It seems that Cryptic has been fostering more to the latter crowd in the past year or so than the former. I get it, casual players - more revenue - it keeps the game around and that's a good thing. Still though...one does continue to hope for a little more balance...
I'm alright with it though i wish there were some remen designed ships not just skins, though I'm looking forward to them. But honestly what disappointing me the most about warbirds is the lack of variants. To let me customize my ship to be fairly unique.
But that's my only grip about my mogai turns fast and dishes some lovely damage
Have to keep in mind the ships we see in the vendor are placeholders for some of the variants. Based on the blogs - it looks like there will be additional kitbash pieces available from the Refits and Retrofits. Add in the skin from the Fleet version...there should be additional options if one has the Refit/Retrofit/Fleet to customize their ship in comparison to what others are flying...er...I hope.
Perhaps consider the Odyssey/Bortas console set bonus too?
Additionally, perhaps an "inertia" value bonus could be implemented along with that? I mind slow turn rate much less than skidding. >_>
Back to topic:
I don't test on Tribble as of yet, but I'm noticed from what clips have been uploaded to Youtube the way the singularity cores have been performing.
One change I'm surprised doesn't seem to have been considered with the singularity mechanic would be to make it more granular. After all... don't you have five 'ticks' to fill? Respective powers tied to the singularity cores could perhaps only consume part of the meter rather than all of it. That way, you get more mileage out of something like Plasma shockwave, faster, and might be able to pull off more than one in a row if you had accumulated a charge (as in, it'd consume 20% of the gauge and have it's full effectiveness).
* * *
Another point I noticed was how more-involved battles tended to only last long enough to creep up to around 40% of the gauge, only to see it end with the accumulated energy unused and then largely petter out by the time the warbird closed in on other targets. Couldn't it be envisioned that the charge could stay?
As I see it, people have a tendency to try to hoard things which aren't complete, rather than go for a half-assed effect... which is probably why you don't end up seeing players use their core abilities around 20-30-40%. And if they do, they aren't impressed. Contributing to that is how it doesn't carry over from fight to fight even if you did save it, since it goes down at a quick clip.
Considering that, and the present theme that the singularity core builds up a charge when the ship is at 'high activity'... maybe it'd be a good idea to have the Romulan cloak contribute to also build up the charge? That way, a warbird could at least cloak between fights and preserve said stored energy... and maybe even build it up some too (cloaking takes a lot of power, so, it fits the theme). On top of that, it adds the great benefit (IMHO) to emphasizing the importance and value of cloaking for the Romulan Warbirds.
Boff layout on the first Bird of prey could be all Universal stations **or at least 2/3?
2nd ship we get.
Turn rate could be increased by 1% to 10%? (had a turn rate of 3 degrees a sec. felt slow)
Boff layout change 1 sci slot to a universal ensign slot...?
The flashing for fully charged core maybe decrease frequency it flashes?
There was this note...
**The Ha?apax Advanced Warbird Refit is a version of the Ha?apax that uses Bridge Officer Seating with a Science focus.
...about the Fleet Ha'apax Advanced Warbird Refit in this blog: http://sto.perfectworld.com/news/?p=869551
That requires a T5 shipyard though.
I'm curious to see what some of the BOFF layout changes are going to involve for the various refits/retrofits of the different ships.
Some of the changes to Sci ability arcs in the recent Tribble notes would fit in with some of the slower turning birds we're looking at though...so perhaps that's coming down the line.
ty much, but doesent that seem a little lop sided virus?? that t5 is the only way to get a sci focused ship? I mena some folks aren't in a fleet im thinking about them
Just the icon that ramps up to five and then you can fire off an ability from it.
But no idea if not firing it benefits you in any way at all.
I like the graphics on the starter ship and am really having a fun time flying it.
But seems to me that I am beating some "heavier" looking ships that I realistically shouldn't be (of course that is prob true of all the factions.)
Massively lopsided imho...
I was planning on rolling two Sci. At this point, I'm seeing either Tac or Eng. I'm hoping that the widening arcs is suggesting that we'll see more as they release more.
This was actually from today's notes - but I wanted to reply to it in this thread.
It is something I was wondering about to an extent, in regard to the cooldown. Whether there would be a way to reduce the CD if using a lower rank of the ability without turning it into something where folks just spam the lowest tier over and over. Perhaps even if it meant raising the CD at a higher level, eh?
R1 30s
R2 45s
R3 60s
R4 75s
R5 90s
I don't know - still thinking more about how those BOFF layouts are going to play out.
Not disagreeing with this, but if this is the case, then I think they would have to allow the Singularity to begin recharging whilst in cooldown, as it can take several seconds until it builds up a charge up to level 5. If you increase the cooldowns too far without taking that into account, not only does it add to the penalty of decreased power levels, but your most useful benefit from it is largely unusable. When many of the games best skills only have a 30-45 second timer, I'm not sure this favors balance.
RRF | Novarren | Jesta Cannon | Zeren
Before it could take anywhere from 30 to 120 seconds depending on your weapons loadout (as it was based on firing weapons more = faster and cannons also charged faster than beams).
I think 90s second is a bit steep as well, maybe the cooldown duration should increase by 10 seconds each level rather than 15, thent he times are 30 seconds to 70 seconds based on level.
Well, it was more a case that my first thing had the R1 at 10s...spammage.
Though, to an extent - that minute CD whether it is 1-5 - will get us to think more about when we do use it. Do we use it - do we wait - if we use it, we're going to have to wait.
It's a common mechanic in several games out there...but for the life of me, I can't remember if they worked differently.
If you only need level 3, fire level 3 and pay level 3s cost, then you have to wait less time and you still have som power saved up. it also means you could combine stuff, say fire off a level 3 quantum absorption and then level 2 warp shadow (though it would put your core on cooldown longer than a single level 5).
The T5 D'Deridex Retrofit...has the BOFFs/Consoles of a Mirror Vor'cha.
The T5 Ha'apax (RA)...has the BOFFs/Consoles of a non-Fleet Heavy Cruiser Retrofit.
Those will be...ahem...interesting with the reduced turn rate in comparison. Will definitely be something one would have to fly. It just seems off.
those setups are as much of a joke as the original