Not even mentioned that these damage control engineers dofs are going to be useless in PvP ... Which non-p2w boffs remain that are actually usefull for space?
the only way you could think this change is ok is if your not an experienced enough escort pilot to know how easy it will be to exploit, and your not an experienced enough cruiser pilot to know that you cant even half mitigate the 10 second hole you now have. if you dispute this, your proboly to inexperienced to know your inexperienced.
just use EPtS? now you have more low level eng skills then you can use on most ships, you can only use EPtS1 on our cruiser, and your total energy pool levels you ran before are more then 20 less then they used to be, critically effecting healing or damage output.
meanwhile EPtE is better then APO movement all the time for an escort, making it easier for them to mitigate 10 second holes. the EPtW change favors spike instead of cruiser pressure damage because the cruisers actually need that power all the time.
cruisers are nerfed, escorts are buffed, and sci captains are marginalized by the change, pure and simple. and not by a little, by a lot. like, dont even bring a cruiser into pvp anymore because they are nerfed so hard, and are just to easy a target to kill. EPtS now has a built in subnuke, so who needs sci captains around. tac escorts are the only thing worth using if this terrible change ever goes live. its a good thing the romulan ships are mostly escorts and destroyers.
This has pretty much been true since the beam NERF(s) and skillbox revamp(s) with F2P, with the possible exception of the P2L Oddy set up as a heal-boat, altho I /agree 110% that the crusier NERF is now blatant and there isn't even a slight argument to be made to the contrary.
Cryptic just can't seem to keep their "grimey little meat grabbers" off of anything that actualy works. It's been this way since closed beta with their NGE type attitudes. To be honest tho, I fully expect something to be introduced via the store that reverses this NERF, only sold for some amount of big-bucks. (console, rep system, etc?) NERF in-game systems to sell the old systems back in the store at a later date.
With the intro of $125.00 packs, I can see where this game is going. I should of been able to see it when they intro-ed the 50.00 ships but the price seems to be going farther and farther up. I've played MMOs for a long time and for 125 I can get a game (with CDs and a box) and a couple of expansions for the same price tag. I now have concerns that if Cryptic "gets-away" with this mess that other developers will try and pick it up as well and the entire industry will end up P2W with a NERF cycle when they have trouble figuring out what to sell next month.
This will go on as long as we, the ones who play and pay for the game, let it. SOE had to learn the hard way with CU, NGE, and C6CD and i would imagine Cryptic will have to find out the very same way. Here's heading for TESO.
its a good thing the romulan ships are mostly escorts and destroyers.
Oh oh, and don't forget the awesome D'D Gal-R clone. Well, it actually makes the gal look good with a 5.5 turn.
I was really hoping for a decent rommie cruiser to make up for this nerf but I made the mistake of thinking Cryptic actually wanted to, you know, make money.
RCS console being changed, my foot. Even if they double it like he said, its still TRIBBLE.
I dunno, this whole EPtX change was just the beginning, it looks like. Someone (I think it might have been you drunk, but I'm not sure) had said that a dev was speaking in oPvP the other day saying the EPtX change was just the start of a larger revamp coming soon.
cruisers are nerfed, escorts are buffed, and sci captains are marginalized by the change, pure and simple. and not by a little, by a lot. like, dont even bring a cruiser into pvp anymore because they are nerfed so hard, and are just to easy a target to kill. EPtS now has a built in subnuke, so who needs sci captains around. tac escorts are the only thing worth using if this terrible change ever goes live. its a good thing the romulan ships are mostly escorts and destroyers.
You know, for a little while, before I'd fully read the patch notes what I was hearing aobut the changes sounded amazing. Imagine if the buffs to the non EPtS powers had also kept the 30 second duration? BUt alas, their initial "fix" left a huge gap between powers but you weren't PENALIZED for runnign more than one type of EPtX, their second fix reduced the hole but penalizes you for running more than one type of EPtX. It also kills DC doffs.
I was pretty sure that this was all a typical comedy of errors made by reasonably well meaning if clueless devs trying to make the other EPtX abilities more enticing...but no, silly me. As others have stated this is looking like its going the way it is on live.
It was unofficially mentioned that they might also be looking at additional Eng BOFF abilities...which could alleviate some of the concerns that folks have had for a wee while (which were only heightened by these various changes).
jheinig was on opvp mentioning talking to system guys at lunch and him hearing that the EPt change is part of a larger set of changes we haven't seen yet. thats right, be worried, be much more worried. i mean at this point they could fix it still, undo the silly gaps. more changes? thats more permanent damage.
I remember all this doom and gloom talk around the time of the first major healing revamp.
Back when engi team and aux to sif harzards and everything else got changed.
I remember enduring weeks of wine and moaning about this and that never working again ect ect...
Guess what the changes where good.
The current system is broken and at the heart of the broken design is there terrible design of the EPTX.
I am willing to see where its all going because frankly... what we have is so broken 1 in 20 of the guys I have played with over the last 3 years are still here.
So while flying around in circles collecting Crystals, I've been thinking more and more about this particular change. The more I think about it, the more I come to realize (imho) there are a multitude of issues involved with the change, EPtX, and the game in general.
Quite honestly, one shouldn't really be able to have 100% uptime on 2x EPtX or a EPtX/EPtY. However, saying that fails to address the rest of what is going on.
It would be one thing if the change was creating a 10-25s gap for all abilities - whether you were 1x EPtX, EPtX/EPtY, or 2x EPtX. That's not the case though.
We have the 10-25s 1x EPtX (likely 25s because of no DCE DOFFs).
We have the 10-25s EPtX/EPtY (likely 10s because of DCE DOFFs).
We have the <5s 2x EPtX (20s, 20s, <5s, 20s, 20s, <5s).
Currently, we have the following:
1x EPtX 0-15s
EPtX/EPtY 0-15s
2x EPtX 0s
Based on a few posts here and there, about EPtX and just other things in general - there appears to be a movement underway within Cryptic to remove the "needed" feel of certain abilities (as well as traits). Which in of itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing, eh?
C'mon, think about it. Somebody asks you for help with a build...what's going to be there for almost every build?
Accurate, Elusive, TT, EPtS, HE, and either APO or PH
Right? Heck, you'll find those on all eight of my guys. Sure, for a while there on my main KDF Eng (in the JHEC now) I ran a Mirror Vor'cha without TT. But that guy had so many ways to heal it was insane...TT even for the Tac debuff cleanse wasn't needed in Ker'rat nor PUGworld. But he was basically an attrition build (ship was called I.K.S. Attrition) and he was basically a bait tank that folks that didn't know any better would try to kill while other folks killed them.
So yeah, the concept of removing "need" is great. As long as there are "viable" options given the current "circumstances" that we all play under currently. Those viable options...don't exist for all ships.
If I'm in an Escort, I've got options for the EPtX changes. Heck, even in a Sci I can build to cover that gap. Cause to an extent, I've already been playing to cover those gaps. With my flaky builds, I've been doing that to an extent already.
Now in a Cruiser on the other hand...there just aren't those options. Frankly, there just aren't enough Eng BOFF abilities to provide those options. The Cruiser is not zipping around like an Escort. The Cruiser is not breaking out the shenanigans like a Sci Vessel can. The Cruiser is grabbing its ankles with a tear streaming down its cheek while asking everybody to be gentle...
If Cryptic wants to try to make other things "viable" while removing the "need" - well, they need to consider what actually is "viable"...and yes, that means looking at PvP. Cause, c'mon - the NPCs in PvE just aren't going to exploit a player's weakness like another player will.
So yeah, let's change the EPtX stuff so it isn't 100% (which also means it not being that silly <5s either)...but before you do that, eh? What are the options that folks are supposed to be running? Want to remove the "need" - then give "viable" options...what are those options, eh?
I was out having a smoke and was wondering if it's something along the lines of what they did with S7 because of the new passives...and what they may be doing with gear/passives/etc for LoR.
With what we've seen so far, imagine the following:
Traits - Accurate, Astrophysicist, EPS Manifold Efficiency, Efficient Captain, Elusive, Grace Under Fire, Techie, Warp Theorist, and some random Ground Trait
Passives
New Rom - Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, (Quantum Singularity Manipulation)
Omega - Hull-Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair
Nukara - Fortified Hull, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense
Deflector/Impulse - Borg Mk XII
Shield - Adapt ResA/ResB
A Field Stabilizing (+5 Max Shields) Warp Core w/ [S->A] and either [EPS] or [Eff]
SIF Generators, Shield Emitters, Field Generators
Rom [ShH] and [HuH] for the Shield Emitters
3pc secondary Borg set bonus
I'm probably even forgetting some things there, eh? Also, that's not including how one spends their skill points...and...it's before any abilities. So tank up that skill build and then...
...look at BOFF/Captain abilities.
Slap some 2x EPtS or EPtS/EPtA(E)(W) there. Grab some RSP, RSF, TT, ET, ST, TSS, AtS, AtD, Scattering, ExS, etc, etc, etc, etc...
...sure, you might be able to kill the other guy after he falls asleep...maybe.
But like I said at the start, is there more stuff coming with LoR we just don't know about? Is that what they're looking at with this?
I don't know about you - but - I'm kind of worried. It reminds me of the initial launch. They had a date to launch by...they weren't ready. Has PWE given Cryptic a launch day that they're just not going to be ready for...?
From some of the things said, it's like they're making it up as they go along...this meeting, that meeting, lunch, oh, okay, changing this, changing that... May 21st isn't that far off all things considered.
PvE side - that stuff is just freaking awesome, it's beautiful, it's great. Cause it's PvE, you can get by with the not-quite-there stuff just like you can now. They've definitely kicked it up a notch on so many levels over there...it's spectacular.
PvP side - where it's more about the numbers... yeah, I'm worried. Not worried like some - I suck, I'm still going to suck...not sure if anybody would notice me sucking any more with it, lol... but I still have fun from time to time. I had more fun prior to S7. I had more fun prior to making the consoles available. I...yeah, I'm having less fun and that's what I'm worried about.
You now I just finished a bunch of testing on tribble with my tac cruiser.
You guys are all playing chicken little here.
The sky ain't falling.
I like the change.
With 3 purple tech doffs... my epts was down for 12s... my epte down for 12s as well... all the time... wth are you guys on about it works fine.
I swapped to 2 purple dmg control doffs to test that... agian 12s pretty much perfect roll on both... I sat there smacking the buttons for like 3 min and I got 1 junk roll where I missed a proc twice in a row to kill the cool down roll... and if that bothered me I could have slotted another DMG control doff, and I doubt I would miss a proc twice in a row for 30+ min at that point.
The changes are great... power forward cryptic.
Part one is a success. Lets hope you follow it up with some more smart changes.
PS... my cruiser turned one heck of a lot better with EPTE up... this is going to be mean as hel& if you guys stop crying about your perfect shield loss and think about how to use these new buffs.
So while flying around in circles collecting Crystals, I've been thinking more and more about this particular change. The more I think about it, the more I come to realize (imho) there are a multitude of issues involved with the change, EPtX, and the game in general.
Quite honestly, one shouldn't really be able to have 100% uptime on 2x EPtX or a EPtX/EPtY. However, saying that fails to address the rest of what is going on.
-snip-
Which is why I fully support the original change. It was good. Everyone got beaten by the same exact nerf bat. Not perfect, but good.
This change buffs escorts and nerfs cruisers. Hardly something that needed to be done.
Simple fix is to just leave everything cooldown related as on holodeck and let the buffs expire after 20-25 seconds. Then I would be happy again.
You now I just finished a bunch of testing on tribble with my tac cruiser.
You guys are all playing chicken little here.
The sky ain't falling.
I like the change.
With 3 purple tech doffs... my epts was down for 12s... my epte down for 12s as well... all the time... wth are you guys on about it works fine.
I swapped to 2 purple dmg control doffs to test that... agian 12s pretty much perfect roll on both... I sat there smacking the buttons for like 3 min and I got 1 junk roll where I missed a proc twice in a row to kill the cool down roll... and if that bothered me I could have slotted another DMG control doff, and I doubt I would miss a proc twice in a row for 30+ min at that point.
The changes are great... power forward cryptic.
Part one is a success. Lets hope you follow it up with some more smart changes.
PS... my cruiser turned one heck of a lot better with EPTE up... this is going to be mean as hel& if you guys stop crying about your perfect shield loss and think about how to use these new buffs.
That is what I said about the original change, that it was a good thing and everyone was over-racting. You agreed with me and I thank you for that.
The current state, however, penalizes me for using more than one EPtX ability vs using only one. That is not a step in the proper direction. Nor is increasing the overall number of heals a typical 2x EPtS ship gets. Those are bad. Those are what I am leaving my feedback against.
The current state, however, penalizes me for using more than one EPtX ability vs using only one. That is not a step in the proper direction. Nor is increasing the overall number of heals a typical 2x EPtS ship gets. Those are bad. Those are what I am leaving my feedback against.
I do agree with you as well... I liked the first fix better.
Don't allow people to chain things and it will in fact encourage people taking 2 system abilities and living with the 12s.
I'll live with the 12s and it will be just fine... but giving everyone the easy option is just typical weak sauce Cryptic caving to the masses.
At this point who knows its more likely cryptic just backs out of any change at all and we continue having boring 1hr matches... and matches we call a draw after 1hr at scores of 2 to 1.
Honesty my biggest fear right now is nothing changes... Rommies launch. Friends that have been gone for months or years all come back to check it out and leave 2 weeks later in disgust. I can sort of see it happening now. lol
Yeah, I am ready to leave in disgust at this point, but really only because the devs are so silent on this. If these changes are part of a larger change, fine, but then what is it? Are you just going to let this half change rot for the next year?
I would like some kind of idea so I know what ship/captain to be working on. As it stands right now, I don't really want to put any more time into my eng/cruiser captain, and I don't really want to fly an escort, especially with an eng, so should I work on my sci, or my tac? Again, I don't really like their playstyle as much as I do the eng, but is there going to be a point to keep my eng/cruiser?
I just don't have the desire to log on anymore. I bring up the launcher, stare at it for a few minutes, and then click "forums" instead. meh.
Yeah, I am ready to leave in disgust at this point, but really only because the devs are so silent on this. If these changes are part of a larger change, fine, but then what is it? Are you just going to let this half change rot for the next year?
I would like some kind of idea so I know what ship/captain to be working on. As it stands right now, I don't really want to put any more time into my eng/cruiser captain, and I don't really want to fly an escort, especially with an eng, so should I work on my sci, or my tac? Again, I don't really like their playstyle as much as I do the eng, but is there going to be a point to keep my eng/cruiser?
I just don't have the desire to log on anymore. I bring up the launcher, stare at it for a few minutes, and then click "forums" instead. meh.
Crystals. Running Crytals on 8 toons. Well, DOFFing and Crystals. Random farming for my two solo fleets. But yeah, no actual...character advancement. Just don't know where any of it is going.
there needs to ba a major dial back on shield res, but any hole in coverage is nothing more then an exploit. its also a sad coincidence that the EPtW change has a negative effect on cruiser pressure, and the EPtE change makes it that much easier for escorts ot avoid damage entirely. the intent, the idea, and the sprite of these changes does not match the reality.
the game is injured by the shield res levels now, but the answer is not to amputate, with exploitable holes, but to combat the infested areas 1 at a time.
-the biggest offender is the resA/B elite shields. these hang out at about the cap for shield resistance most of the time, thanks mostly to the +15 that mod gives. the res A/B mods NEEDS to be removed, replaced with a cap mod maybe. these shields alone double the length of every organized team vs team pvp match, they are a cancer to this game.
-then theres the second biggest source of res, EPtS. with the power and the raw boost to res, EPtS1 gives 23% res. im not sure off the top of my head what 2 and 3 give, but its snowballs considerably. the bonus to res needs to be cut in half, keep the power boost the same. putting holes in this coverage is a giveaway to spike that everyone will exploit like when someone gets subnuked.
i dont know why everyone has a problem with skills that are basically passives as long as you refresh them, its worked fine for years. if you dont like it play something else, your ruining the foundation skills of every build. all the other skills are spot heals or short duration buffs, theres room for a few passives, its nearly all eng has got.
-ES should only last 10 seconds, and maybe not offer any res, just regeneration. its still to easy to find caped out targets when everyone is runing an ES circle jerk with full up time. you EPtS haters should be complaining about this skill.
-then theres TT, that thanks to elite shields i find my self not even using that often now. it should have its duration cut down to 5 seconds.
those changes would go a LONG way to repair the out of control, caped out res problem. but spike, that also needs toneing down a bit as well. both ends of the yoyo are to strong.
-DHCs need an adjustment to the way they fire with CRF. it all gets applied in front loaded blasts in the space of a second, its capable of droping shield facings and damaging hull every cycle, wile every other weapon has to contend with regeneration and manual redistribution at the same pace as the damage is applied. its not a question of dps or damage per voly, it really is all about that 1 second of damage application.
-beam overload, and stacking 2 or 3 of them wile abusing the DEM doff is a growing concern. that is more of an exploit then a tactic in my opinion, a cooldown after BO actually fires of 5 seconds is appropriate. the doff could still let you get 2 shots off in the space of the DEM doffed 8 seconds, and then a third even with normal drain. not much is going to survive a 3rd shot anyway. 2 BOs in the space of a second, with non crippling energy drain after the first shot cant be WAD.
-things might be in pretty good shape then, though a 15% buff to the dps of beam arrays, single cannons, DBBs and turrets may also be appropriate. doffs, proc heals, and other defensive power creep are more then anything, anti pressure damage. the damage from these weapons is literally canceled out now, so even with the above changes, these weapons still may be to marginalized. consider a 15% buff to DC damage too, so it deals more dps then DHCS. even adjusted, DHC damage would still hit in a more useful way, actually dealing effective damage is more impotent then any DPS rating. well, in pvp at least.
-beam overload, and stacking 2 or 3 of them wile abusing the DEM doff is a growing concern. that is more of an exploit then a tactic in my opinion, a cooldown after BO actually fires of 5 seconds is appropriate.
Fun fact: in the initial implementation, using BO took all your energy weapons offline for a short amount of time.
This happens a lot these days. Some initial design decision turns out to be a much better idea than what the current devs are doing.
This happens a lot these days. Some initial design decision turns out to be a much better idea than what the current devs are doing.
I agree with this. It seems like the initial system team had much better overall idea about the combat system. When you think about lot's of things that were removed from the game, one has to wonder...
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I agree with this. It seems like the initial system team had much better overall idea about the combat system. When you think about lot's of things that were removed from the game, one has to wonder...
Ya they had overload right... they had weapon power drain right... the list goes on really.
Ya they had overload right... they had weapon power drain right... the list goes on really.
There for example was very little healing if I remember right. I mean most was self healing. Transfer Shield was actual Transfer, Hazzards had just min HoT. AtSIF was self-only. Felt more like Star Trek.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
There for example was very little healing if I remember right. I mean most was self healing. Transfer Shield was actual Transfer, Hazzards had just min HoT. AtSIF was self-only. Felt more like Star Trek.
Ya engi team was your main resist... it did heal but it wasn't yo you hot heal stuff.
You could hull tank back then... it did feel a lot more trek.
Not that I'm saying it was better game play in every way... but I think the last year or so they have made a bunch of changes, some I love like the torp global cool down removal... but some like the change to weapons power was just terrible.
I didn't say it was better. Truth is, I do not exactly remember the gameplay. But it felt more Star Trek for some reason.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Of course the past was better. This should be self-explanatory under the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics: The net entropy of a closed system must always increase. As such, the game must necessarily progressively move to a worse and worse state until it ceases to be worth playing at all. That's how things have always been in every game. Net improvement is physically impossible. Every attempt to make things better must necessarily make other things worse, and the net change must be worse than if nothing had been done at all. That's how the universe works.
Of course the past was better. This should be self-explanatory under the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics: The net entropy of a closed system must always increase. As such, the game must necessarily progressively move to a worse and worse state until it ceases to be worth playing at all. That's how things have always been in every game. Net improvement is physically impossible. Every attempt to make things better must necessarily make other things worse, and the net change must be worse than if nothing had been done at all. That's how the universe works.
That's not true. I have played several games that got better over time.
A simple spreadsheet I created to demonstrate just how FUBAR shield power, resistances, and EPtS really are.
Top left boxes are where you put in the basic numbers.
Seconds survived assumes your shield automatically distribute the entire time for whatever reason.
Does not take into account the 10% of damage going to hull instead of shields.
If you have any Qs let me know. It is mostly for demonstrative purposes not necessarily a perfect model but a good one.
*Forgot to mention it doesn't know about shield power cap (130) so if you put over 100 shield power in to start the last EPtS regen numbers will become skewed. Also the avoidance % can be used to compare a different shield resist bonus as well if desired as the math is the same.
Leave for abit... come back and see what cryptic has done. Laugh and then shake my head again.
Putting a 10 second gap between EPTS resistance is not going to fix the underlying problem, actually it only makes it worse. I can faceroll and pop someone in ten seconds. Premade healers are going to time their extends around friendly gaps in EPTS, premade grade Escort players (ie anyone with a modicum of talent) are going to just save the buffs for the ten second EPTS gaps.
All of this together is just going to make burst and spike all the more important.
Leave for abit... come back and see what cryptic has done. Laugh and then shake my head again.
Putting a 10 second gap between EPTS resistance is not going to fix the underlying problem, actually it only makes it worse. I can faceroll and pop someone in ten seconds. Premade healers are going to time their extends around friendly gaps in EPTS, premade grade Escort players (ie anyone with a modicum of talent) are going to just save the buffs for the ten second EPTS gaps.
All of this together is just going to make burst and spike all the more important.
It doesn't make pressure better.
my opinion feels even more validated now that mav came to the exact same conclusion. you forgot the part about sci being marginalized too, with EPtS's hole having about the same effect as a subnuke
Comments
This has pretty much been true since the beam NERF(s) and skillbox revamp(s) with F2P, with the possible exception of the P2L Oddy set up as a heal-boat, altho I /agree 110% that the crusier NERF is now blatant and there isn't even a slight argument to be made to the contrary.
Cryptic just can't seem to keep their "grimey little meat grabbers" off of anything that actualy works. It's been this way since closed beta with their NGE type attitudes. To be honest tho, I fully expect something to be introduced via the store that reverses this NERF, only sold for some amount of big-bucks. (console, rep system, etc?) NERF in-game systems to sell the old systems back in the store at a later date.
With the intro of $125.00 packs, I can see where this game is going. I should of been able to see it when they intro-ed the 50.00 ships but the price seems to be going farther and farther up. I've played MMOs for a long time and for 125 I can get a game (with CDs and a box) and a couple of expansions for the same price tag. I now have concerns that if Cryptic "gets-away" with this mess that other developers will try and pick it up as well and the entire industry will end up P2W with a NERF cycle when they have trouble figuring out what to sell next month.
This will go on as long as we, the ones who play and pay for the game, let it. SOE had to learn the hard way with CU, NGE, and C6CD and i would imagine Cryptic will have to find out the very same way. Here's heading for TESO.
Oh oh, and don't forget the awesome D'D Gal-R clone. Well, it actually makes the gal look good with a 5.5 turn.
I was really hoping for a decent rommie cruiser to make up for this nerf but I made the mistake of thinking Cryptic actually wanted to, you know, make money.
RCS console being changed, my foot. Even if they double it like he said, its still TRIBBLE.
I dunno, this whole EPtX change was just the beginning, it looks like. Someone (I think it might have been you drunk, but I'm not sure) had said that a dev was speaking in oPvP the other day saying the EPtX change was just the start of a larger revamp coming soon.
All cruiser captains, brace for impact.
You know, for a little while, before I'd fully read the patch notes what I was hearing aobut the changes sounded amazing. Imagine if the buffs to the non EPtS powers had also kept the 30 second duration? BUt alas, their initial "fix" left a huge gap between powers but you weren't PENALIZED for runnign more than one type of EPtX, their second fix reduced the hole but penalizes you for running more than one type of EPtX. It also kills DC doffs.
I was pretty sure that this was all a typical comedy of errors made by reasonably well meaning if clueless devs trying to make the other EPtX abilities more enticing...but no, silly me. As others have stated this is looking like its going the way it is on live.
So.. yay Cryptic, good troll on us?
More fail incomming?
I remember all this doom and gloom talk around the time of the first major healing revamp.
Back when engi team and aux to sif harzards and everything else got changed.
I remember enduring weeks of wine and moaning about this and that never working again ect ect...
Guess what the changes where good.
The current system is broken and at the heart of the broken design is there terrible design of the EPTX.
I am willing to see where its all going because frankly... what we have is so broken 1 in 20 of the guys I have played with over the last 3 years are still here.
Quite honestly, one shouldn't really be able to have 100% uptime on 2x EPtX or a EPtX/EPtY. However, saying that fails to address the rest of what is going on.
It would be one thing if the change was creating a 10-25s gap for all abilities - whether you were 1x EPtX, EPtX/EPtY, or 2x EPtX. That's not the case though.
We have the 10-25s 1x EPtX (likely 25s because of no DCE DOFFs).
We have the 10-25s EPtX/EPtY (likely 10s because of DCE DOFFs).
We have the <5s 2x EPtX (20s, 20s, <5s, 20s, 20s, <5s).
Currently, we have the following:
1x EPtX 0-15s
EPtX/EPtY 0-15s
2x EPtX 0s
Based on a few posts here and there, about EPtX and just other things in general - there appears to be a movement underway within Cryptic to remove the "needed" feel of certain abilities (as well as traits). Which in of itself, isn't necessarily a bad thing, eh?
C'mon, think about it. Somebody asks you for help with a build...what's going to be there for almost every build?
Accurate, Elusive, TT, EPtS, HE, and either APO or PH
Right? Heck, you'll find those on all eight of my guys. Sure, for a while there on my main KDF Eng (in the JHEC now) I ran a Mirror Vor'cha without TT. But that guy had so many ways to heal it was insane...TT even for the Tac debuff cleanse wasn't needed in Ker'rat nor PUGworld. But he was basically an attrition build (ship was called I.K.S. Attrition) and he was basically a bait tank that folks that didn't know any better would try to kill while other folks killed them.
So yeah, the concept of removing "need" is great. As long as there are "viable" options given the current "circumstances" that we all play under currently. Those viable options...don't exist for all ships.
If I'm in an Escort, I've got options for the EPtX changes. Heck, even in a Sci I can build to cover that gap. Cause to an extent, I've already been playing to cover those gaps. With my flaky builds, I've been doing that to an extent already.
Now in a Cruiser on the other hand...there just aren't those options. Frankly, there just aren't enough Eng BOFF abilities to provide those options. The Cruiser is not zipping around like an Escort. The Cruiser is not breaking out the shenanigans like a Sci Vessel can. The Cruiser is grabbing its ankles with a tear streaming down its cheek while asking everybody to be gentle...
If Cryptic wants to try to make other things "viable" while removing the "need" - well, they need to consider what actually is "viable"...and yes, that means looking at PvP. Cause, c'mon - the NPCs in PvE just aren't going to exploit a player's weakness like another player will.
So yeah, let's change the EPtX stuff so it isn't 100% (which also means it not being that silly <5s either)...but before you do that, eh? What are the options that folks are supposed to be running? Want to remove the "need" - then give "viable" options...what are those options, eh?
With what we've seen so far, imagine the following:
Traits - Accurate, Astrophysicist, EPS Manifold Efficiency, Efficient Captain, Elusive, Grace Under Fire, Techie, Warp Theorist, and some random Ground Trait
Passives
New Rom - Enhanced Shield Systems, Emergency Secondary Shielding, (Quantum Singularity Manipulation)
Omega - Hull-Repairing Nanites, Superior Shield Repair
Nukara - Fortified Hull, Auxiliary Power Configuration - Defense
Deflector/Impulse - Borg Mk XII
Shield - Adapt ResA/ResB
A Field Stabilizing (+5 Max Shields) Warp Core w/ [S->A] and either [EPS] or [Eff]
SIF Generators, Shield Emitters, Field Generators
Rom [ShH] and [HuH] for the Shield Emitters
3pc secondary Borg set bonus
I'm probably even forgetting some things there, eh? Also, that's not including how one spends their skill points...and...it's before any abilities. So tank up that skill build and then...
...look at BOFF/Captain abilities.
Slap some 2x EPtS or EPtS/EPtA(E)(W) there. Grab some RSP, RSF, TT, ET, ST, TSS, AtS, AtD, Scattering, ExS, etc, etc, etc, etc...
...sure, you might be able to kill the other guy after he falls asleep...maybe.
But like I said at the start, is there more stuff coming with LoR we just don't know about? Is that what they're looking at with this?
I don't know about you - but - I'm kind of worried. It reminds me of the initial launch. They had a date to launch by...they weren't ready. Has PWE given Cryptic a launch day that they're just not going to be ready for...?
From some of the things said, it's like they're making it up as they go along...this meeting, that meeting, lunch, oh, okay, changing this, changing that... May 21st isn't that far off all things considered.
PvE side - that stuff is just freaking awesome, it's beautiful, it's great. Cause it's PvE, you can get by with the not-quite-there stuff just like you can now. They've definitely kicked it up a notch on so many levels over there...it's spectacular.
PvP side - where it's more about the numbers... yeah, I'm worried. Not worried like some - I suck, I'm still going to suck...not sure if anybody would notice me sucking any more with it, lol... but I still have fun from time to time. I had more fun prior to S7. I had more fun prior to making the consoles available. I...yeah, I'm having less fun and that's what I'm worried about.
You guys are all playing chicken little here.
The sky ain't falling.
I like the change.
With 3 purple tech doffs... my epts was down for 12s... my epte down for 12s as well... all the time... wth are you guys on about it works fine.
I swapped to 2 purple dmg control doffs to test that... agian 12s pretty much perfect roll on both... I sat there smacking the buttons for like 3 min and I got 1 junk roll where I missed a proc twice in a row to kill the cool down roll... and if that bothered me I could have slotted another DMG control doff, and I doubt I would miss a proc twice in a row for 30+ min at that point.
The changes are great... power forward cryptic.
Part one is a success. Lets hope you follow it up with some more smart changes.
PS... my cruiser turned one heck of a lot better with EPTE up... this is going to be mean as hel& if you guys stop crying about your perfect shield loss and think about how to use these new buffs.
Which is why I fully support the original change. It was good. Everyone got beaten by the same exact nerf bat. Not perfect, but good.
This change buffs escorts and nerfs cruisers. Hardly something that needed to be done.
Simple fix is to just leave everything cooldown related as on holodeck and let the buffs expire after 20-25 seconds. Then I would be happy again.
That is what I said about the original change, that it was a good thing and everyone was over-racting. You agreed with me and I thank you for that.
The current state, however, penalizes me for using more than one EPtX ability vs using only one. That is not a step in the proper direction. Nor is increasing the overall number of heals a typical 2x EPtS ship gets. Those are bad. Those are what I am leaving my feedback against.
I do agree with you as well... I liked the first fix better.
Don't allow people to chain things and it will in fact encourage people taking 2 system abilities and living with the 12s.
I'll live with the 12s and it will be just fine... but giving everyone the easy option is just typical weak sauce Cryptic caving to the masses.
At this point who knows its more likely cryptic just backs out of any change at all and we continue having boring 1hr matches... and matches we call a draw after 1hr at scores of 2 to 1.
Honesty my biggest fear right now is nothing changes... Rommies launch. Friends that have been gone for months or years all come back to check it out and leave 2 weeks later in disgust. I can sort of see it happening now. lol
I would like some kind of idea so I know what ship/captain to be working on. As it stands right now, I don't really want to put any more time into my eng/cruiser captain, and I don't really want to fly an escort, especially with an eng, so should I work on my sci, or my tac? Again, I don't really like their playstyle as much as I do the eng, but is there going to be a point to keep my eng/cruiser?
I just don't have the desire to log on anymore. I bring up the launcher, stare at it for a few minutes, and then click "forums" instead. meh.
Crystals. Running Crytals on 8 toons. Well, DOFFing and Crystals. Random farming for my two solo fleets. But yeah, no actual...character advancement. Just don't know where any of it is going.
the game is injured by the shield res levels now, but the answer is not to amputate, with exploitable holes, but to combat the infested areas 1 at a time.
-the biggest offender is the resA/B elite shields. these hang out at about the cap for shield resistance most of the time, thanks mostly to the +15 that mod gives. the res A/B mods NEEDS to be removed, replaced with a cap mod maybe. these shields alone double the length of every organized team vs team pvp match, they are a cancer to this game.
-then theres the second biggest source of res, EPtS. with the power and the raw boost to res, EPtS1 gives 23% res. im not sure off the top of my head what 2 and 3 give, but its snowballs considerably. the bonus to res needs to be cut in half, keep the power boost the same. putting holes in this coverage is a giveaway to spike that everyone will exploit like when someone gets subnuked.
i dont know why everyone has a problem with skills that are basically passives as long as you refresh them, its worked fine for years. if you dont like it play something else, your ruining the foundation skills of every build. all the other skills are spot heals or short duration buffs, theres room for a few passives, its nearly all eng has got.
-ES should only last 10 seconds, and maybe not offer any res, just regeneration. its still to easy to find caped out targets when everyone is runing an ES circle jerk with full up time. you EPtS haters should be complaining about this skill.
-then theres TT, that thanks to elite shields i find my self not even using that often now. it should have its duration cut down to 5 seconds.
those changes would go a LONG way to repair the out of control, caped out res problem. but spike, that also needs toneing down a bit as well. both ends of the yoyo are to strong.
-DHCs need an adjustment to the way they fire with CRF. it all gets applied in front loaded blasts in the space of a second, its capable of droping shield facings and damaging hull every cycle, wile every other weapon has to contend with regeneration and manual redistribution at the same pace as the damage is applied. its not a question of dps or damage per voly, it really is all about that 1 second of damage application.
-beam overload, and stacking 2 or 3 of them wile abusing the DEM doff is a growing concern. that is more of an exploit then a tactic in my opinion, a cooldown after BO actually fires of 5 seconds is appropriate. the doff could still let you get 2 shots off in the space of the DEM doffed 8 seconds, and then a third even with normal drain. not much is going to survive a 3rd shot anyway. 2 BOs in the space of a second, with non crippling energy drain after the first shot cant be WAD.
-things might be in pretty good shape then, though a 15% buff to the dps of beam arrays, single cannons, DBBs and turrets may also be appropriate. doffs, proc heals, and other defensive power creep are more then anything, anti pressure damage. the damage from these weapons is literally canceled out now, so even with the above changes, these weapons still may be to marginalized. consider a 15% buff to DC damage too, so it deals more dps then DHCS. even adjusted, DHC damage would still hit in a more useful way, actually dealing effective damage is more impotent then any DPS rating. well, in pvp at least.
This happens a lot these days. Some initial design decision turns out to be a much better idea than what the current devs are doing.
I agree with this. It seems like the initial system team had much better overall idea about the combat system. When you think about lot's of things that were removed from the game, one has to wonder...
Ya they had overload right... they had weapon power drain right... the list goes on really.
There for example was very little healing if I remember right. I mean most was self healing. Transfer Shield was actual Transfer, Hazzards had just min HoT. AtSIF was self-only. Felt more like Star Trek.
Ya engi team was your main resist... it did heal but it wasn't yo you hot heal stuff.
You could hull tank back then... it did feel a lot more trek.
Not that I'm saying it was better game play in every way... but I think the last year or so they have made a bunch of changes, some I love like the torp global cool down removal... but some like the change to weapons power was just terrible.
Yes and no...
At some point in the last 3 years there has been a perfect version of almost every skill. lol
Just never have they all be perfect at one time.
That's not true. I have played several games that got better over time.
It's funny to think about though
A simple spreadsheet I created to demonstrate just how FUBAR shield power, resistances, and EPtS really are.
Top left boxes are where you put in the basic numbers.
Seconds survived assumes your shield automatically distribute the entire time for whatever reason.
Does not take into account the 10% of damage going to hull instead of shields.
If you have any Qs let me know. It is mostly for demonstrative purposes not necessarily a perfect model but a good one.
*Forgot to mention it doesn't know about shield power cap (130) so if you put over 100 shield power in to start the last EPtS regen numbers will become skewed. Also the avoidance % can be used to compare a different shield resist bonus as well if desired as the math is the same.
Putting a 10 second gap between EPTS resistance is not going to fix the underlying problem, actually it only makes it worse. I can faceroll and pop someone in ten seconds. Premade healers are going to time their extends around friendly gaps in EPTS, premade grade Escort players (ie anyone with a modicum of talent) are going to just save the buffs for the ten second EPTS gaps.
All of this together is just going to make burst and spike all the more important.
It doesn't make pressure better.
my opinion feels even more validated now that mav came to the exact same conclusion. you forgot the part about sci being marginalized too, with EPtS's hole having about the same effect as a subnuke