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EPtX rebalance on tribble
dontdrunkimshoot
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
here's the changes in the patch notes
Updated "Emergency Power" Bridge Officer Abilities:
The Emergency Power category of abilities has been tuned so that all four abilities are closer in utility to one another.
The duration of all Emergency Power buffs has been standardized at 20 seconds.
Emergency Power to Engines:
Increased the Flight Speed bonus of Rank 2 and Rank 3 of this ability.
Increased the duration of the Flight Speed bonus from 5 seconds up to 20 seconds.
This ability now also gives a small flat added value to Turn Speed.
Emergency Power to Auxiliary:
Modified the tooltip to display the actual amount of Starship Stealth Detection given by this ability.
This ability now gives a skill bonus to Starship Particle Generators, Starship Graviton Generators, and Subspace Decompiler for 20 seconds when used.
The Stealth and Stealth Detection attributes of this power now last 20 seconds, up from 5 seconds.
Emergency Power to Shields:
The Shield Damage Resistance and Shield Regeneration attributes of this power now last 20 seconds, down from 30 seconds.
Emergency Power to Weapons:
The Energy Weapon damage bonus of this power now lasts 20 seconds, up from 5 seconds.
the big news is that the bonus for all skills is going from 5 seconds, or 30, to 20. there will now be 10 seconds every EPtS cycle were you arent getting the additional res.
personally, i think thats a terrible way of going about it. lowering the res bonus is 1 thing, putting huge gaps in the effect of something you cycle with full up time is another buff to spike damage. the best of us will just hold off and kill everyone in those 10 vulnerable seconds, the pugs will just get stomped harder. the last thing we need is more extremes, but here we go again.
all these skills need to have their bonus last the whole 30 seconds, or dont bother with the change, seriously. this isn't a skill like APO or TSS, this is something you ether have 2 copies of for full up time, or you use tech or damage control doffs to keep them at full up time. THE BALANCE OF THE GAME REVOLVES AROUND THIS FACT. pulling the rug out from under this fact is a catastrophic thing to do. this is the type of thing thats tells me its time to put down the starship and move on, things will only get worse.
fix these skills with these changes
EPtE- that speed boost, which is quite large, lasting 20 seconds is a huge buff to escort zipyness, they already move FAR to fast in game, one of them main reasons for the escort imbalance there currently is. its to easy and effective to speed tank, the last thing they need is to go even faster. a 5/7.5/10% buff to flight speed and a 10/20/30% buff to turn rate for 30 seconds would be much more reasonable.
EPtA- just change it to 30 seconds and this skill is fine. great even.
EPtS- was fine as is. perhaps their should be a 10% nerf in bonus across the board though. 10 second gaps in res, just lol.
EPtW- this totally needs to last 30 seconds, this is a skill for buffing cruisers and their pressure damage. thing is with pressure, you need a long period of time to make it work. bursty buffs do it little good.
Updated "Emergency Power" Bridge Officer Abilities:
The Emergency Power category of abilities has been tuned so that all four abilities are closer in utility to one another.
The duration of all Emergency Power buffs has been standardized at 20 seconds.
Emergency Power to Engines:
Increased the Flight Speed bonus of Rank 2 and Rank 3 of this ability.
Increased the duration of the Flight Speed bonus from 5 seconds up to 20 seconds.
This ability now also gives a small flat added value to Turn Speed.
Emergency Power to Auxiliary:
Modified the tooltip to display the actual amount of Starship Stealth Detection given by this ability.
This ability now gives a skill bonus to Starship Particle Generators, Starship Graviton Generators, and Subspace Decompiler for 20 seconds when used.
The Stealth and Stealth Detection attributes of this power now last 20 seconds, up from 5 seconds.
Emergency Power to Shields:
The Shield Damage Resistance and Shield Regeneration attributes of this power now last 20 seconds, down from 30 seconds.
Emergency Power to Weapons:
The Energy Weapon damage bonus of this power now lasts 20 seconds, up from 5 seconds.
the big news is that the bonus for all skills is going from 5 seconds, or 30, to 20. there will now be 10 seconds every EPtS cycle were you arent getting the additional res.
personally, i think thats a terrible way of going about it. lowering the res bonus is 1 thing, putting huge gaps in the effect of something you cycle with full up time is another buff to spike damage. the best of us will just hold off and kill everyone in those 10 vulnerable seconds, the pugs will just get stomped harder. the last thing we need is more extremes, but here we go again.
all these skills need to have their bonus last the whole 30 seconds, or dont bother with the change, seriously. this isn't a skill like APO or TSS, this is something you ether have 2 copies of for full up time, or you use tech or damage control doffs to keep them at full up time. THE BALANCE OF THE GAME REVOLVES AROUND THIS FACT. pulling the rug out from under this fact is a catastrophic thing to do. this is the type of thing thats tells me its time to put down the starship and move on, things will only get worse.
fix these skills with these changes
EPtE- that speed boost, which is quite large, lasting 20 seconds is a huge buff to escort zipyness, they already move FAR to fast in game, one of them main reasons for the escort imbalance there currently is. its to easy and effective to speed tank, the last thing they need is to go even faster. a 5/7.5/10% buff to flight speed and a 10/20/30% buff to turn rate for 30 seconds would be much more reasonable.
EPtA- just change it to 30 seconds and this skill is fine. great even.
EPtS- was fine as is. perhaps their should be a 10% nerf in bonus across the board though. 10 second gaps in res, just lol.
EPtW- this totally needs to last 30 seconds, this is a skill for buffing cruisers and their pressure damage. thing is with pressure, you need a long period of time to make it work. bursty buffs do it little good.
Post edited by dontdrunkimshoot on
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ive never used eptw before, but if it isn't affected by drainning, i find 20 seconds too much
but as a sci officer, i find epta cool now with the extra duration and those skill buffs and epte with the turn rate buff and extra duration
1) Makes me believe even more that enemy players should not be able to see the buffs that the other has. Heck, that the information available already in general is too much.
It would be one thing if skill in Sensors revealed more information or even if a Sensor Scan or Sensor Analysis did...but as it stands? It's one of the things I hate most about MMORPGs... meh, it's not something you see in RPGs and it's not something that was there when MMORPGs first launched.
2) A 10s gap is pretty much par for the course with regard to how Cryptic likes their Yo-Yo mechanics...
3) In the end, it does nothing to address the logical fallacy involved in 100% uptime on Emergency Power that some of the folks out there have complained about...
BoP's will love it. Wait for 10 second gap, alpha strike kill, cloak, wait for 10 second gap, alpha strike kill and cloak. Then you have the elite fleet disruptors lowering shield resists by 25%.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
thats what im worried about ...
Powers that are must-haves make a game boring. If everyone and their grandmother has the exact same build, then the designers failed. I'm glad Cryptic is addressing an obvious failure in this manner.
And by the way, wasn't this very community - possibly even DDIS himself - just complaining not long ago about the fact that survivability was at such an intolerable high-point that Pressure Damage was all but extinct? Doesn't this new 10-sec gap help alleviate that concern a little?
The complainers on the Tribble forum are saying that they could've just upped the duration on all EPtX powers to 30 seconds. But really, I think even 20 seconds durations is going to make some of these abilities monstrously powerful.
For example, EPtE used to be a quick "get outta dodge" escape power that was a flash in the pan - over in 5 seconds. Yet even so, you could easily get out of combat and 10+km from your target. So, how far are you going to travel in 20 seconds instead?
I'm actually a little disappointed that everyone's jumped straight on the "YOUR NERF IS BAD AND YOU SHOULD FEEL BAD" wagon after only reading the patch notes. Did anybody actually try out the changes on Tribble at all?
The +Weapon Power given by EPtW is affected by weapon power drain - but - since Weapon Power is something you can overcap - that overcap helps with drain resistance.
Say I'm at 125/100 Weapon Power. My EPtW1 does two things for me currently: +25 Weapon Power for 30s and +10% Energy Weapon Damage for 5s.
I'll be at 125(150)/100 Weapon Power. As my weapons drain power, they drain from the 150 - not the 125. Firing 4 Beam Arrays and the Cutting Beam - it's rare that I ever drop below 90 Weapon Power...even while using BO. To that, add in the use of EPS Power Transfer and Nadion Inversion...and yeah...I tend to look pretty good when it comes to firing weapons at full power with weapons that are considered to have crappy drain.
Take somebody with DHCs/Turrets - change that additional damage boost (additional, because the higher the Weapon Power - the more damage you're doing - so the higher you can keep your power while shooting - the more damage you're doing) that you get on top of the +Wep Pwr to 20s from 5s...and yeah - I think we're going to see an additional increase in the amount of damage that's being done.
As for the EPtA...heh, I've only run that on one guy for the short bonus to StealthSight. With that being 20s now instead of 5s - hrmmm, could get interesting. I might go back to refocusing him on that stealth detection thing with LoR coming.
It's not a rebalancing. Rebalancing would be adjusting the buff during that period of time. All they did was create the following scenario:
30s
20s of it - damn it, too much resistance - can't kill this TRIBBLE!
10s of it - teehee, he's dead!
It's freaking Yo-Yo nonsense and it's getting old.
also eptw will now be more usefull for us engis so i like that too.. in the end even the flat bonus to turnrate is good for cruisers much more so than for escorts.
I'm not sold, but I'm willing to give it a chance.
100% uptime with EPtS was ridiculous.
R.I.P
it doesnt mater if something called emergency being on all the time is stupid. the game balance revolves around having EPtS on at all times, thats the base line. they are just pulling the rug out from under it without changing a single additional thing. and giving a huge give away to escorts with that perfect 10 second window to exploit. thats how long CRF lasts you know.
damage over time needs more then a 10 seconds window. things that can exploit a period of 10 seconds are called spike, not pressure. pressure would need an across the board nerf to resistance to make a difference. that would be a good thing, not a huge gaping hole for 10 seconds, which is only something that spike can exploit.
EPtE will never be a quick get out of dodge skill, just like EPtW will never be a stack able tac buff like the others, because they are all slaved together with system cooldowns. you can use it only when the system cooldown lets you, and if you dont use it as soon as you can then, you cant use the other type of EPt skill when you might want ti then.
i suppose thats an idea, remove the system cooldown across all EPtX skills. ya, this MIGHT actually work if they did that.
i dont want to sound harsh, but if you dont understand the effect of this change by seeing it on paper, L2P.
In any regard, these changes are sweeping and will drastically alter game balance.
Bort, are we going to have enough time to test and leave feedback? Is Cryptic going to listen to feedback? Can we have these changes on redshirt so we can set up private matches and test them without all of the other season 8 stuff getting in the way?
Cruiser DPS just got a nice boost with EPTW dmg buff. going from 5 seconds to 20 is HUGE for tac cruisers running EPTW3 and DEM3.
My Gal-X was putting the hurt for those 5 seconds...now it will last another 15. This is a great buff.
EPTS nerf....well lets face it people, we knew it was coming sometime. 100% uptime for a 30% resist ability? lets not act surprised.
Overall, I would say these are some nice changes.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Possible it could drain normally from overcap to 100 and the weapon firing drain can be less harsh for the 20 second duration down.
R.I.P
As the changes are on Tribble, they won't be going live until Legacy of Romulus launches. They can't be put on Redshirt as the changes are in the new code, and the new code is on Tribble. Redshirt is only for changes that will be going live to Holodeck before the expansion launches. Legacy of Romulus launches on 5/21, so there is over a month of time to test and submit feedback.
Please make sure feedback from your testing is left in this thread: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=615701 -- the systems team will be reading feedback in there.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Agreed, lol. Say hello to insane resist stacks from people and even bigger and fatter targets for nukes.
EPTS needs to remain where it is. The other abilities need a buff to EPTS level though.
That would certainly help to bring the Galaxy out of obscurity. As it is now it suffers from ENG redundancy.
You can't reduce the triggered CD caused by using EPtXA that it causes for EPtXB. You simply can't reduce 2x EPtX beyond that either. Each DOFF just increases the chance for the proc, so to speak, they don't proc additional CD reduction.
It was one of the things I always hated about 3 Ensign Engineering BOFFs...having 3x EPtX would be like trying to juggle 3x Teams - something is always likely to be sitting there and when you need it, you're not likely to be able to use it anyway because of a triggered CD.
edit: By the way via some testing on Tribble...
2x EPtS1: you're going to eat a 10s gap.
EPtS1/EPtW1 (for example): you're going to eat a 25s gap.
If you had perfect procs from DCE DOFFs, you could get the EPtS1/EPtW1 down to the 10s gap. So basically, you're looking at a 10s gap with 2x EPtX or a 10-25s gap with EPtX/EPtY.
thats a good way to describe it actually, that 10 second loss of EPtS is basically like getting subnuked, every 20 seconds for 10 seconds. it will literally have the same effect. the #1 danger of SNB is the collapse of your EPtS cycling.
those doffs just have a chance to reduce the cooldown to about global. additional doffs give additional chances they proc, not additional cooldown. they dont work like tech doffs for example
that ocured to me too. even though the glaxy would ever so slightly benefit, im still going to do what i can for this 20 second change to never see the light of day on holodeck. the galaxy most of all will suffer from 10 seconds of vulnerability. all slow movers will be effected most, they cant avoid damage at all, at least escorts and even sci ships can.
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Thank you bort...
Don't be detracted by anyone that is going to give you a hard time about the EPTS change.
It is 100% needed. I like 20s up for all skills it adds value to everything... and forces gap in the super resist that is EPTS.
Frankly with all the extra regen options we now have and shields that provide more resist then EPTS... I doubt things will be unbalanced.
Don't be scared off making the changes that need to be made by anyone no matter how knowledgeable they claim to be. I am in fact shocked to see a few wise players not being immensely happy to see healing pushed more toward a cycle system.
100% uptimes require zero skill... now people will be forced to roll resists and perhaps protect themselves in other ways when they know they are in a gap position.
I love it.
I would request that you know look at the team abilities.
A while ago I suggested changing team ability global values and some of the clears they preform.
I am going to paste here out of that thread... I think the combo of what you are doing with EPTX and this idea would make for a super active healing situation that would in fact revive the usefulness of the engi class as well.
Team Skills
- Global reduced to 10s. on All team skills
{This change will encourage the use of all 3 team skill in player builds... and at least increase the perceived value of players running more then one team skill.}
- All Team skill clears pushed to 10s... to unify all 3 team skills with one expected value.
{This change will unify the clear times of all 3 classes of debuffs.}
- Engineering Team; added 10%, 15%, and 20% hull resistance for duration of skill.
{This change will increase the value of Engineer heavy ship types in terms of healing power.}
- Engineering Team; Added Debuff Clear for Aceton beam, and Plasma DOT type effects. As well as a adding a clear for Eject Warp plasma type effects. Remove E Team clear of any sci debuffs such as Viral Matrix.
{This change will simplify the games debuff/clear mechanics by moving all clears to same system skills. E team will clear Engineering level debuffs. This will also revalue Cruiser healer game play by increasing the player appeal of high level E team cleanses.}
- Science Team; Add clear for Viral Matrix to S Team. Also add clears for Tykens rift and Energy siphon (drain mechanic).
{Intended to move Science Debuff Removal to a Science class clear skill.}
Science Skills
- Hazard Emitters; Remove clear of all plasma dot effects as well as clear on Tykens Rift and Energy siphon effects.
{This change would retain Hazard Emitters as the main sci based hull heal, however it would move the cleansing effects to either Engineering or Science teams. Reducing overall game debuff removal, and increasing the value of support role builds.}
People don't insta splod anymore if EPTS isn't up.
I have been running EPTS and EPTE on my escorts for a long time... even before doffs allowed me to mostly keep them both up 100%... and I never insta sploded.
Watch your own buffs... you have BFI / Evasive... Tac Team... TSS... and in general just not flying stupidly head on into a escorts forward arc when your not super resist man and you will be fine.
EPTS stacking has made people super lazy... how many MMOs have you people played where you could have your shield / evasion skill / or Aegis field... or what ever else applies up 100% of the time.
Thank the stars Cryptic is realizing how terrible that design has been.
I am looking forward to EVERYONE having to PLAY this game. Not marco up there heal rotation and plot there subnuke rolls.