I thought the Tal Shiar exist to serve the Emperor/Empress, however Sela may just be a currently unpopular one.
from what i understand, the tal'shiar serves the interests of the RSE, independant of whoever happens to be leading it at the time...kind of like S31, or the former obsidian order and their respective factions
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
It is unclear if the ships we've been seeing are actually Iconian... we just assume they are, but its been so long - who knows...
I like the idea that the real Iconians really are extinct, but some other force may have usurped all that abandoned technology and subverted the name "Iconian" as well for their own purposes (vaguely Sith-like,) even if it's only as a form of psychological warfare or something.
Picard and Data did kinda-sort imply/speculate in "Contagion" that the Iconians may have been peaceful, but set upon by jealous adversaries who rewrote history after the bombardment to recharacterize the Iconians as "demons."
Random thought, mostly unrelated: what if that communications network Voyager and the Hirogen used was also leftover Iconian junk?
Random thought, mostly unrelated: what if that communications network Voyager and the Hirogen used was also leftover Iconian junk?
using black holes as power sources for the network...it sounds more like something the romulans might've done, had they been around back then, since they use artificial black holes for power
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I like the idea that the real Iconians really are extinct, but some other force may have usurped all that abandoned technology and subverted the name "Iconian" as well for their own purposes (vaguely Sith-like,) even if it's only as a form of psychological warfare or something.
That's a provocutive thought, the Iconians not being real Iconians. And like the Sith starting out as a race and over thousands of years, evolving into an ideology.
But my impresson of Stahl's comment was that those ships aren't really subordinates of the "Iconians". Like in Babylon 5 with the Drakh.
Picard and Data did kinda-sort imply/speculate in "Contagion" that the Iconians may have been peaceful, but set upon by jealous adversaries who rewrote history after the bombardment to recharacterize the Iconians as "demons."
Random thought, mostly unrelated: what if that communications network Voyager and the Hirogen used was also leftover Iconian junk?
If it was Iconian, then Voyager would've noticed. Besides, seems odd they would go from galactic teleportation 200,000 years to needing a communication network 100,000 later.
Sela is a fantastic character and we're excited that we'll be working with Denise Crosby again soon.
Some things to remember that are already in game or implied in game - Hakeev did report to Sela at some level and Hakeev was Tal Shiar. The Undine have been heavily influenced by some sort of Iconian plot, so there is a definite chance that the Iconian plot extends to the Delta quadrant and isn't just limited to the Alpha/Beta. Obisek was considered a terrorist and so it is interesting to see him connected with D'Tan on New Romulus. It is breaking with the norm to allow an Iconian gateway to exist when pretty much every other Gateway has been purposely destroyed up to this point. It is unclear if Sela was pulled through the Iconian asteroid gateway willingly, but they did seem to single out her ship as if to rescue it or her. It is unclear if the ships we've been seeing are actually Iconian... we just assume they are, but its been so long - who knows...
So Dan, now that Brandon is on shoreleave you decided to take over teasing us?
You devs. are such teasers! :P
Just for fun, here's everything the Path to 2409 has to say about Sela and/or the Tal Shiar. I did this in two separate searches of STO Wiki, so hopefully it's all in sequence.
After Tomalak's defeat by Donatra and her fleet, Praetor Tal'aura removed him as proconsul, choosing Sela as her right hand and fleet commander. Sela, a human-Romulan hybrid with extensive experience in the military and intelligence fields, was a part of several major Romulan operations, including a failed a attempt to invade Vulcan and coordinating support for the House of Duras's attempt to take over the Klingon High Council in 2367. As a gift to Tomalak for his decades of loyal service to the Romulan Star Empire, Tal'aura allowed him to "retire" to his rural estates on Romulus.
On Stardate 61602.00, Tal'aura was found dead in her private chambers. Tal Shiar investigators reported that the praetor was attacked as she slept.
The Romulan capital erupted in a firestorm of rumors and accusations. Among the groups suspected of carrying out the assassination was a coalition of the noble houses, the Tal Shiar or agents working for Empress Donatra and the Imperial Romulan State.
Donatra denied having anything to do with the murder. "I face my enemies on the field of battle with honor," the empress announced in an address to her citizens, "not with a knife in the dark." Days later, Donatra recalled Taris from Romulus and ordered her to prepare to defend Imperial holdings.
At Tal'aura's funeral in Ki Baratan, Sela publically [sic] blamed the Remans and the Unification movement for the attack. "They claim to desire peace," Sela said, "but ally with the murderers and usurpers who terroized [sic] our planet and led us to the brink of destruction. The blood of one praetor was not enough for the Remans. Tal'aura was the victim of their thirst for destruction."
In Romulan space, what began as a tumultuous year after the assassination of Praetor Tal'aura settled down into what was believed to be long-term solution, and both Starfleet and the Klingon Empire pulled back some ships from the borders of Romulan space.
In the weeks following Tal'aura's death, her proconsul Sela stepped in to take the reins of control in the government. Granted temporary executive powers by the Senate as an emergency measure, Sela used them to replace more than two dozen senators with representatives of noble houses who had opposed Tal'aura's rule. Among Sela's apointees was the influential noble Chulan of the Line of Tellus.
The backing of the nobles gave Sela the clout she needed to run the government, but she did not have the support of the military or the Tal Shiar and her regime was generally expected to be short-lived.
Rehaek, the leader of the Tal Shiar, made a rare public appearance to announce that he would personally lead the investigation into the assassination that he would personally lead the investigation into the assassination of Praetor Tal'aura. "There are certain things which may seem expedient but which honor abhors. We cannot allow this crime to go unanswered."
And Empress Donatra of the Imperial Romulan State won hearts among the people of Romulus by offering food shipments to non-military settlements.
Federation experts feared a three-way struggle for control of Romulus, but instead Donatra met with Sela and Rehaek to find a peaceful solution.
The three begrudgingly agreed to put their personal disputes aside for the good of the Empire, and the worlds of the Imperial Romulan State were folded back into the Romulan Star Empire. Donatra held onto the reins of power of the military and kept much of her forces safely off-world in case the peace didn't hold.
With the threat of civil war averted, the Senate opened debate on who to elect the new praetor. Sela, as Tal'aura's proconsul, was one of the leading candidates, and she made a play for the position. But rumors of her possible involvement in the plot to assassinate Tal'aura dogged her campaign, and when Donatra declined to endorse Sela's campaign her defeat was almost assured.
After an extensive debate, Senator Chulan was chosen to be the new praetor. He was a compromise candidate who was acceptable to, but not strongly supported by, any of the major powers. Federation analysts predicted that without the backing of a coalition of factions, Chulan would be a weak leader.
Donatra, who most agreed was the broker of the newfound peace on Romulus, traveled to Remus to meet General Xiomek of the Remans. She offered the Remans full citizenship in the empire and representation in the Romulan Senate in exchange for their support.
While Sela opposed the plan, which she saw as rewarding the Remans for a violent uprising, she and Praetor Chulan did not have the strength to oppose Donatra's power.
The physical strength of the Remans, as well as their supplies of dilithium and heavy metals, added to Donatra's formidable military strength, and she had the resources to reopen shipyards and munitions plants closed since Shinzon's revolt. As resources flowed back to Romulus from Remus and the worlds Donatra controlled, energy rationing and food lines became a thing of the past.
The Romulan Senate was reluctant to deal with the Remans but was swayed by popular support for Donatra, and the senators reluctantly vote to allow Xiomek to take a seat in the Sentate and to extend citizenship to the Remans. In common practice, however, most Romulans continued to treat Remans as second-class citizens, and the Remans were reluctant to relocate to Romulan settlements.
On Stardate 63322.55, Rehaek, leader of the Tal Shiar, sent a statement to the praetor and the leaders of the Romulan Senate with the conclusions of his investigation into the assassination of Praetor Tal'aura. Rehaek ruled that Tal'aura was killed by agents loyal to a coalition of noble houses angered by her reformation of the Senate.
Both Donatra and Sela requested to see the evidence that backed up his claims, but Rehaek refused to divulge his complete findings.
In retaliation for the death of Tal'aura, the Tal Shiar began a campaign of assaults on the noble houses, arresting dozens of nobles and seizing their assets. Sela pushed back against the persecution of her major supporters, and in response swayed the Senate to drastically cut funding to the Tal Shiar.
In a speech before the Senate, Sela accused elements inside the Tal Shiar of knowing about the plot to assassinate Tal'aura but doing nothing to stop it. "Does standing silent make them as culpable as the killers?" Sela asked. "In abandoning their sworn duty to protect the praetor, as a symbol of Romulus itself, they are no better than those who wielded the knives that killed her."
Donatra refused to take sides in the conflict between Sela and Rehaek, and instead encouraged the praetor to handle the situation. Praetor Chulan appointed a Senate committee to formally investigate the matter, but the committee took little action.
On Stardate 63446.41, an explosion destroyed Rehaek's home on the outskirts of Ki Baratan. Observers reported several visitors to the estate of the leader of the Romulan Tal Shiar in the hours before the blast, any of whom could have planted the explosives. The remains of Rehaek's wife and young daughter and several servants were found in the wreckage, but no trace of Rehaek was ever found. Investigators theorized that the blast was intense enough to have vaporized anyone close to the point of detonation.
Two hours after the explosion, Tal Shiar forces stormed Sela's townhouse in Ki Baratan, taking her and her personal guard into custody for the murder of Rehaek. In a secret trial held days later, Sela was sentenced to death for the crime. At the last minute, Donatra intervened. She argued that the evidence was not overwhelming, and pressured Praetor Chulan to allow Sela and her supporters to accept permanent exile instead of death.
The leader of the Romulan fleet, Admiral Taris, maintained a low profile during the troubles, putting many of her responsibilities in the hands of General Tebok. Late in 2386, she informed Donatra that she planned to take her ship to Levaeri V to investigate claims that a blade believed to be the Sword of the Raptor Star had been recovered.
The ancient sword, reputed to be one of the swords created by Vulcan swordsmith S'harien and taken into exile by S'task, was a revered artifact of the Sundering.
On Stardate 64317.6, Klingon long range sensors picked up a small Romulan fleet led by Sela. The fleet passed the Beta Stromgrem supernova remnant and continued into unexplored space.
Taris' victory in the Zeta Pictoris system rallied the Romulans, who were desperately seeking a sign of their former glory. Rator III was the first to proclaim Taris as the leader of the Romulan Star Empire, quickly followed by Achenar Prime and more than a dozen other worlds.
In an address broadcast throughout the empire, Taris said "I am a military commander, and I would prefer to remain so. The seas of politics are rife with submerged hazards and hidden perils, and a wise person does well to avoid them. But my Empire calls and I cannot resist her plea."
Taris called on the leaders of the colony worlds to meet at Rator III to select representatives for a new Romulan Senate and to make plans for a new capital.
A Federation operative inserted into the fleet that departed Romulan space with Sela in 2386 reported that Sela and her followers landed on Makar, an M-class planet in the Beta Quadrant with abundant supplies of decalithium and heavy metals. A humanoid race with technology equivalent to Earth's Iron Age inhabited two of Makar's temperature southern continents, but Sela saw the population as an additional natural resource, and within weeks her forces had hundreds of Makarans working in the mines.
The operative also reported that Sela's ship picked up a signal that was similar to the artificial quantum singularities that the Romulans use to power their warp drives, as well as signs of a massive gravitational field. Sela dispatched two ships to investigate these anomalies.
Starfleet observation posts saw an increase in ship traffic going to the far reaches of the Beta Quadrant. Reports indicated that the Dopterians were funneling ships and supplies to Romulan exile Sela and her followers in exchange for decalithium. Ships similar to those found in reports from the U.S.S. Voyager also were sighted in the region.
Since Sela was well out of Federation space, Starfleet had no grounds on which to stop the trade. However, Starfleet Intelligence kept a close eye on the situation, and they were formulating a plan in case Sela became a threat to the Federation. Also, since decalithium is a highly restricted substance, any ore that the Dopterians brought into Federation space was subject to seizure.
On Nova Roma, Praetor Taris clashed yet again with the Romulan Senate over a plan to further restrict the powers of the praetor. Taris made a rare personal appearance before the Senate to argue against the proposal.
"In the absence of a monarch, and at a time of extreme upheaval in the Alpha and Beta quadrants," Taris said, "We must have one voice to speak for our empire to the galaxy. Only by expanding the praetor's powers will we have stability and strength. A disharmonious chorus leads to chaos."
Taris swayed some Senators to her side, but her general unpopularity with the Romulan populace doomed her call for expanding executive powers. The Senate proceeded with its plan to limit the power of the praetor.
In another possible problem for Taris, agents for Starfleet Intelligence intercepted and decoded several messages from Nova Roma to a planet deep in the Beta Quadrant. These messages pointed out irregularities in the reports about the death of General Tebok and the destruction of the I.R.W. Alth'lndor. Starfleet Intelligence agents reported that Sela had ordered her spies to investigate and find the truth of the matter.
Starfleet Intelligence observers reported a possible uprising in Romulan space that could further destabilize the already troubled empire.
"Velal has had enough," said one anonymous observer. "But to get rid of the devil, he might be making a deal with Fek'Ihr."
The commander of the Romulan Second Fleet reported met with Sela and some of her exiled followers in the Zeta Volantis system. Following that rendezvous, General Velal gathered a trusted group of ship commanders.
"Taris must be removed for the good of the Empire," said a source close to General Velal. "Velal's alliance with Sela will give him the ships and weapons he needs to make that happen. We don't want a civil war, but we know that there will be some parts of the fleet that will remain loyal to the praetor."
In Romulan space, trouble flared when General Velal appeared before the Romulan Senate and demanded that Praetor Taris resign before she was removed from office by force. Velal had the backing of many of the senators, although a vote of no confidence failed by a minor margin.
In response, Taris called for ships of the fleet loyal to the legitimate government of the Romulan Star Empire to engage those supporting the revolution. There were multiple skirmishes between the two groups, and when Sela's fleet re-enterd Romulan space in support Velal, the conflict moved into open warfare.
In Romulan space, the conflict between Praetor Taris and General Velal continued to divide the already fractured empire. Kevatras and Abraxas Prime threw their support behind the rebellion, giving Velal and Sela's forces much needed safe havens and supply bases.
The war came to an abrupt end on Stardate 80957.96, when forces of the Romulan Second Fleet approached Rator III.
"The praetor had been locked in her rooms for a few days at this point, and she wouldn't allow anyone to enter," a Starfleet Intelligence observer reported. "Her staff finally broke down the door when Velal's fleet entered orbit. I think they were trying to get Taris to safety - but she was already gone."
An extensive search of the palace turned up no clues. The Tal Shiar extended the search to all of Nova Roma, but Praetor Taris has disappeared.
Velal and Sela landed in Nova Roma while the search for Praetor Taris was still ongoing, and proceeded directly to the Romulan Senate.
"Sela made a very pretty speech about how she was a loyal Romulan and a friend to the Senate, and not once did she mention the dozens of Warbirds she had in orbit over their heads," said Mira Mandel of the Federation News Service. "No one was surprised when the Senators tripped over themselves to offer her their fealty."
The Senate named Sela as praetor and General Velal as the leader of the Romulan fleet by acclamation. The reign of Praetor Taris was over.
The Romulan Star Empire was enjoying a time of peace that it hadn't seen since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld almost two decades before. Praetor Sela settled long-simmering disputes between colony worlds, opened the Romulus memorial at the remains of the homeworld, and gently shaped the Senate to her way of thinking.
"She's using a little bit of blackmail, a dose of charm and a lot of guile," said a Starfleet Intelligence operative on Nova Roma. "But Romulus hasn't had a leader who can pull people together like she can since Donatra disappeared."
In Romulan space, Starfleet Intelligence observers reported that Sela revived one of Praetor Taris' ideas - a Romulan monarch.
"Sela hasn't said a word about it herself, of course, but allies of hers in the Senate are floating the idea," one agent said. "And it's not a coincident that people have started making comparisons between Sela and beloved Romulan rulers like Ael i-Mhiessan t'Rllaillieu.
"There's even a quiet search going on for the Sword of S'task, even though everyone believes it was destroyed when the homeworld was lost."
On Stardate 85365.28, years of instability and infighting in the Romulan Star Empire seemingly came to a close with the coronation of Empress Sela. The new empress would not have a praetor, and the Senate would serve at her pleasure.
"Security has clamped down in the capital," a Starfleet Intelligence source inside Romulan space said. "The Romulans say that they have reason to believe that there may be an assassination attempt on the empress, but I think it's more than that. This is the first time Sela can show just how much control she has."
Observers at the coronation of Empress Sela said that it proceeded with as much pomp and circumstance as the recovering Romulan Star Empire could muster. Sela called for a return to the traditions of old, including the carrying of honor blades and blood oaths.
In fact, before taking the crown the empress used a jeweled blade to cut her own palm. As the blood dripped down onto a rug of white fur, Sela took an oath to uphold and preserve the empire with her life.
"Tradition is very important in this new order," the SI source said. "Sela is consciously recalling a golden age on the old homeworld, and using those memories to inspire the people. They're talking about mnhei'sahe again, and a lot of people have started referring to Nova Roma as Mol'Rihan, which is 'New Romulus' in High Rihannsu."
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
That's a provocutive thought, the Iconians not being real Iconians. And like the Sith starting out as a race and over thousands of years, evolving into an ideology.
But my impresson of Stahl's comment was that those ships aren't really subordinates of the "Iconians". Like in Babylon 5 with the Drakh.
Unless I'm grossly mis-remembering, the only time the Drakh didn't use their own ships was when they deployed the Planet Killer in Call to Arms. Or are you saying that what we're calling "Iconians" are something else entirely, and we haven't actually seen "true" Iconian ships?
Unless I'm grossly mis-remembering, the only time the Drakh didn't use their own ships was when they deployed the Planet Killer in Call to Arms. Or are you saying that what we're calling "Iconians" are something else entirely, and we haven't actually seen "true" Iconian ships?
Well, we don't necessarily know that the Drakh did build what we commonly think of as "Drakh ships." The Shadows could have simply built them with a different design.
I do think he was suggesting that we may not have seen true Iconian ships, though.
Side note: are we all assuming that the Iconians are also behind the re-emergence of the "Fek'Ihri" in the KDF storyline? The final mission suggests that the whole thing may have been a ruse orchestrated by someone, for some reason.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Well, we don't necessarily know that the Drakh did build what we commonly think of as "Drakh ships." The Shadows could have simply built them with a different design.
I do think he was suggesting that we may not have seen true Iconian ships, though.
While I don't think there's any evidence to contradict (or support) that notion, I will point out that the other races known to have been working for the Shadows (most notably the Stribe (sp?)) had developed their own, very different, ships. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them being some sort of hybrid construction (such as the White Stars) though.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
The one thing going against that idea is the extremely dismal success rate both the Stribe and Drakh had against "conventional" ships fielded by the younger races.
Sela is a fantastic character and we're excited that we'll be working with Denise Crosby again soon.
Some things to remember that are already in game or implied in game - Hakeev did report to Sela at some level and Hakeev was Tal Shiar. The Undine have been heavily influenced by some sort of Iconian plot, so there is a definite chance that the Iconian plot extends to the Delta quadrant and isn't just limited to the Alpha/Beta. Obisek was considered a terrorist and so it is interesting to see him connected with D'Tan on New Romulus. It is breaking with the norm to allow an Iconian gateway to exist when pretty much every other Gateway has been purposely destroyed up to this point. It is unclear if Sela was pulled through the Iconian asteroid gateway willingly, but they did seem to single out her ship as if to rescue it or her. It is unclear if the ships we've been seeing are actually Iconian... we just assume they are, but its been so long - who knows...
Interesting.
That said, I think maybe you should look at missions that pull together what we know. TV shows tend to do this. Look at some of the serial greats in modern TV from Twin Peaks to DS9 to Buffy to Lost and you'll see they have episodes that piece things together or cap them off.
It's nice to see this in a forum post and it would always be cool to see certain regular storyline episodes get somehow featured for replay but I think a big thing STO needs are places where the pieces get put together in game.
That was at the heart of the content system I was talking about awhile ago on here. But even just an episode where, in the course of it, we get this stuff summarized.
Heck, you guys have the conference room map on DS9. I'd be somewhat happy even if you just added that to the static map and let us go there to review storyline details, with a bit of commentary on them. The dialogues available could grow based on mission completion, DOff categories, rep, lore accolades, etc. But we could go there and get someone to filter all this stuff down into digestible briefings, separating fact from conjecture and piecing together how things fit in a meaningful way.
I have some ideas into how even that could make for an interesting side system. But I'm a big fan of this kind of stuff. Spent many hours hunting the Ashbringer in WoW. Loved all the conspiracy/whiteboard episodes of TNG/DS9/Voyager.
Would really love it if you could get Jack from Dr. Bashir's band of augments and either the other misfits or a new class of them. It would crack me up to have them going crazy sorting out the game's lore and then come up with new ideas based on what we can give them.
That's a provocutive thought, the Iconians not being real Iconians. And like the Sith starting out as a race and over thousands of years, evolving into an ideology.
But my impresson of Stahl's comment was that those ships aren't really subordinates of the "Iconians". Like in Babylon 5 with the Drakh.
Hopefully we learn more about that.
If it was Iconian, then Voyager would've noticed. Besides, seems odd they would go from galactic teleportation 200,000 years to needing a communication network 100,000 later.
My side thought on this is that we're only assuming the Iconians are from the past. We know they were active in the past and then disappeared but given their ability to travel across time and space and dimensions, we can't really know where they're from.
One of the more compelling things I could see being linked to them is the placement of the Tox Uthat on Risa, which I don't know was ever explained aside from being a future weapon designed to cause supernovae that happened to wind up in Risa's past. Given the Iconians are causing supernovae... It could be a link but would suggest they may be based in the future and that their influence 200k years ago might simply be them messing with history.
Unless I'm grossly mis-remembering, the only time the Drakh didn't use their own ships was when they deployed the Planet Killer in Call to Arms. Or are you saying that what we're calling "Iconians" are something else entirely, and we haven't actually seen "true" Iconian ships?
That is indeed what I'm suggesting what Stahl was implying.
Well, we don't necessarily know that the Drakh did build what we commonly think of as "Drakh ships." The Shadows could have simply built them with a different design.
I do think he was suggesting that we may not have seen true Iconian ships, though.
Side note: are we all assuming that the Iconians are also behind the re-emergence of the "Fek'Ihri" in the KDF storyline? The final mission suggests that the whole thing may have been a ruse orchestrated by someone, for some reason.
I had the same line of thought as well. Even before they added these "Iconian" ships, when they added the Feklhri storyline, I always had the impression that they were really servants of the Iconians. And when the Iconian ship appeared, that seemed to solidify that fact in my mind. Due to the similar looking fog they emit.
But given Stahl's statement, it's thought provoking to think the Feklhri could very well be the subordinates of the subordinates.
My side thought on this is that we're only assuming the Iconians are from the past. We know they were active in the past and then disappeared but given their ability to travel across time and space and dimensions, we can't really know where they're from.
One of the more compelling things I could see being linked to them is the placement of the Tox Uthat on Risa, which I don't know was ever explained aside from being a future weapon designed to cause supernovae that happened to wind up in Risa's past. Given the Iconians are causing supernovae... It could be a link but would suggest they may be based in the future and that their influence 200k years ago might simply be them messing with history.
Interesting thought. Seems to take on the parallel of Terra Nova, where they traveled into the distant past to start a new life. But not too sure I want them from the future.
But the thing about the Tox Uthat is that it didn't cause stars to supernova, it ended nuclear fusion within the star. Which means a star wouldn't explode, but implode. Because a supernovae is when the explosive force being kept check by the gravity, overwhelms the gravitational force. But with the end of nuclear fusion, the opposite occurs and gravity overwhelms the explosive force and it basically becomes a dead star.
Of course, I could be wrong with that. That's something for astrophysicists to confirm or deny.
That is indeed what I'm suggesting what Stahl was implying.
I had the same line of thought as well. Even before they added these "Iconian" ships, when they added the Feklhri storyline, I always had the impression that they were really servants of the Iconians. And when the Iconian ship appeared, that seemed to solidify that fact in my mind. Due to the similar looking fog they emit.
But given Stahl's statement, it's thought provoking to think the Feklhri could very well be the subordinates of the subordinates.
Interesting thought. Seems to take on the parallel of Terra Nova, where they traveled into the distant past to start a new life. But not too sure I want them from the future.
But the thing about the Tox Uthat is that it didn't cause stars to supernova, it ended nuclear fusion within the star. Which means a star wouldn't explode, but implode. Because a supernovae is when the explosive force being kept check by the gravity, overwhelms the gravitational force. But with the end of nuclear fusion, the opposite occurs and gravity overwhelms the explosive force and it basically becomes a dead star.
Of course, I could be wrong with that. That's something for astrophysicists to confirm or deny.
I may have to read back up. The Decipher card game allowed you to trigger a supernova with the Tox. Okay, so then maybe it's the perfect counter in case the Iconians strike again. If only Spock had a Tox Uthat.
But the thing about the Tox Uthat is that it didn't cause stars to supernova, it ended nuclear fusion within the star. Which means a star wouldn't explode, but implode. Because a supernovae is when the explosive force being kept check by the gravity, overwhelms the gravitational force. But with the end of nuclear fusion, the opposite occurs and gravity overwhelms the explosive force and it basically becomes a dead star.
Of course, I could be wrong with that. That's something for astrophysicists to confirm or deny.
Not entirely correct. A supernova (in stars large enough to produce such an explosion) is actually preceded by a massive implosion of the star's core (as the gravity of the core outsrips both the fusion reaction and neutron density's abilities to stop said implosion) that causes a runaway thermal reaction which (after a whole bunch of crazily complicated physics reactions) results in the non-collapsed part of the star to be flung away at insane velocities.
So while the Uthat may initially stop a stellar fusion reaction, another one would almost certainly begin in it's place after core collapse starts. Except this time, it's not a stable warm and glowy one, it's an out of control kaboomy one.
Not entirely correct. A supernova (in stars large enough to produce such an explosion) is actually preceded by a massive implosion of the star's core (as the gravity of the core outsrips both the fusion reaction and neutron density's abilities to stop said implosion) that causes a runaway thermal reaction which (after a whole bunch of crazily complicated physics reactions) results in the non-collapsed part of the star to be flung away at insane velocities.
So while the Uthat may initially stop a stellar fusion reaction, another one would almost certainly begin in it's place after core collapse starts.
Pretty much that. The fusion in the star is what holds it from collapsing. If, out of the blue the reaction stops, it implodes, generating extreme pressure. What happens with all that "pressurised" energy? A (super)nova happens. If then there's still an incredible amount of material left for the star, it becomes a neutron star or even a black hole (instead of a brown dwarf).
So a tool that stops nuclear fusion in a star is basically a (super)nova maker.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Pretty much that. The fusion in the star is what holds it from collapsing. If, out of the blue the reaction stops, it implodes, generating extreme pressure. What happens with all that "pressurised" energy? A (super)nova happens. If then there's still an incredible amount of material left for the star, it becomes a neutron star or even a black hole (instead of a brown dwarf).
So a tool that stops nuclear fusion in a star is basically a (super)nova maker.
Just one thing then I'll take off my astronomy nerd hat...
A brown dwarf isn't a dead star, it's a massive gas giant that just missed the boat on having enough mass to ignite stellar fusion (think Jupiter, but bigger). I think the term you were looking for was a white dwarf, what's left over after non-ginormous stars die.
Sela is a fantastic character and we're excited that we'll be working with Denise Crosby again soon.
Some things to remember that are already in game or implied in game - Hakeev did report to Sela at some level and Hakeev was Tal Shiar. The Undine have been heavily influenced by some sort of Iconian plot, so there is a definite chance that the Iconian plot extends to the Delta quadrant and isn't just limited to the Alpha/Beta. Obisek was considered a terrorist and so it is interesting to see him connected with D'Tan on New Romulus. It is breaking with the norm to allow an Iconian gateway to exist when pretty much every other Gateway has been purposely destroyed up to this point. It is unclear if Sela was pulled through the Iconian asteroid gateway willingly, but they did seem to single out her ship as if to rescue it or her. It is unclear if the ships we've been seeing are actually Iconian... we just assume they are, but its been so long - who knows...
Since Iconians were a galaxy (possibly even to nearby galaxies) spanning empire, I'd be surprised if they weren't active in the Delta Quadrant. Still, will we see what they've been up to in the Gamma Quadrant too? I'd imagine they'd love to mess around with the Dominion as well.
Side note: are we all assuming that the Iconians are also behind the re-emergence of the "Fek'Ihri" in the KDF storyline? The final mission suggests that the whole thing may have been a ruse orchestrated by someone, for some reason.
the only way the iconians would have anything to do with the fek'lhri is if the h'urq are servants of or allied with the iconians
remember, there was h'urq DNA in the fek'lhr killed at the end of 'Gates of Gre'thor'
But the thing about the Tox Uthat is that it didn't cause stars to supernova, it ended nuclear fusion within the star. Which means a star wouldn't explode, but implode.
if you recall, tolian soran's trilithium weapon did the same thing, and while that star didn't explode in a supernova, it still released a shockwave powerful enough to obliterate everything it touched
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Just one thing then I'll take off my astronomy nerd hat...
A brown dwarf isn't a dead star, it's a massive gas giant that just missed the boat on having enough mass to ignite stellar fusion (think Jupiter, but bigger). I think the term you were looking for was a white dwarf, what's left over after non-ginormous stars die.
Oh, yes, sorry. After a while, all the colours and types start merging into one.
More to the topic: I believe that what STO is about to do is throwing pretty much all and any larger event in the galaxy at the Iconians (or whoever personnifies them).
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
My side thought on this is that we're only assuming the Iconians are from the past. We know they were active in the past and then disappeared but given their ability to travel across time and space and dimensions, we can't really know where they're from.
One of the more compelling things I could see being linked to them is the placement of the Tox Uthat on Risa, which I don't know was ever explained aside from being a future weapon designed to cause supernovae that happened to wind up in Risa's past. Given the Iconians are causing supernovae... It could be a link but would suggest they may be based in the future and that their influence 200k years ago might simply be them messing with history.
Seriously though, I hope Starfleet haven't forgotten about Portal 63, if there's anyone who would be of help against the Iconians it'd be the last vestige of the Tkon Empire.
Sela is a fantastic character and we're excited that we'll be working with Denise Crosby again soon.
Some things to remember that are already in game or implied in game - Hakeev did report to Sela at some level and Hakeev was Tal Shiar. The Undine have been heavily influenced by some sort of Iconian plot, so there is a definite chance that the Iconian plot extends to the Delta quadrant and isn't just limited to the Alpha/Beta. Obisek was considered a terrorist and so it is interesting to see him connected with D'Tan on New Romulus. It is breaking with the norm to allow an Iconian gateway to exist when pretty much every other Gateway has been purposely destroyed up to this point. It is unclear if Sela was pulled through the Iconian asteroid gateway willingly, but they did seem to single out her ship as if to rescue it or her. It is unclear if the ships we've been seeing are actually Iconian... we just assume they are, but its been so long - who knows...
I can't wait for the rep system where we have to deal with undine going thru withdrawl from their little injections.
So while the Uthat may initially stop a stellar fusion reaction, another one would almost certainly begin in it's place after core collapse starts. Except this time, it's not a stable warm and glowy one, it's an out of control kaboomy one.
Now, this brings up another theory. The Supernova that destroyed Romulus. If we are going off the presumption that the Tox Uthat (however it's spelled) is possibly an Iconian device, could it be said that in a round-about way, the Iconians were responsible for it?
Perhaps they have been watching the Alpha/Beta Quadrant races for a while now (to them, a while may be 4 or 5 centuries), and have decided that they would use the Romulans as their pawns in their bid to return. However, they didn't like the political structure on Romulus at the time, Engineered the Hobus explosion and resulting destruction of Romulus space.
Then, afterwards, kept an eye on the situation to see who would emerge the as the strongest leader in the remaining political structure. When it was obvious that Sela held the most control, they 'rescued' her, and have been indoctrinating her (basically brainwashing her) into believing that she has found the one power capable of restoring a sense of order to a chaotic galaxy: The Iconians.
Just a theory.
Fleet Admiral Joseph D. Ridgeway
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
Just for fun, here's everything the Path to 2409 has to say about Sela and/or the Tal Shiar. I did this in two separate searches of STO Wiki, so hopefully it's all in sequence.
I've read a lot of comments recently regarding Sela and an Alliance with the Iconian. I'm here in an attempt to both open some eyes, and to further expand upon how I think Sela will be involved with the future.
I'll start with Sela and an Iconian Alliance:
* The Tal Shiar are Allies of the Icionian (actually, they're puppets, but they don't know it).
* Sela doesn't like the Tal Shiar.
* The Icionian (compared to the Romulan Empire) are a superior species.
* The Iconian / Tal Shiar are (possibly inadvertently) responsible for the destruction of Romulus.
* Sela isn't stupid.
Now, sure she may have her unethical ways (as far as Romulan ethics go) but I hardly doubt she's foolish enough to align herself with a superior species that would stab her in the back at any time; yes, Sela attempted to join the house of Duras (or rather, aid them) but Sela could handle the House of Duras as they were a minor house within the Empire.
In addition, Sela was a proud Romulan; she made that quite clear. Do any of you really think she'd join the species that were responsible for so many Romulan deaths?
SPOILERS AHEAD
As for Sela's role; I suspect it'll be more along the lines of this:
Last we saw of Sela, she was being towed into an Icionian Gateway. Last we learnt from D'Tan, they had found an Iconian Gateway and will no doubt have it working at some point. I think it's a fair bet that Sela (rather than be the aggressor) will be the victim that'll require rescuing. That, or she escapes her Iconian captors and, via use of another gateway, emerges on New Romulus.
Whatever is going down is going to happen on that planet, and I think it's safe to say that Sela will be a prominent figure. At heart, she is still a Romulan, and if D'Tan (and all his followers) are there getting slaughtered, I don't think Sela would be one to stand by and watch. We must remember that it is the Tal Shiar causing problems for D'Tan, and not the remainder of the Empire.
Discuss.
Note: You can't have spoilers when everything you have said is completely and totally speculation and conjecture.
Note: You can't have spoilers when everything you have said is completely and totally speculation and conjecture.
The first half of the first paragraph following that spoiler alert details events of the Federation Campaign. Not everyone will have played through that yet, thus, for those that haven't, I warned them not to read on.
Comments
from what i understand, the tal'shiar serves the interests of the RSE, independant of whoever happens to be leading it at the time...kind of like S31, or the former obsidian order and their respective factions
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I like the idea that the real Iconians really are extinct, but some other force may have usurped all that abandoned technology and subverted the name "Iconian" as well for their own purposes (vaguely Sith-like,) even if it's only as a form of psychological warfare or something.
Picard and Data did kinda-sort imply/speculate in "Contagion" that the Iconians may have been peaceful, but set upon by jealous adversaries who rewrote history after the bombardment to recharacterize the Iconians as "demons."
Random thought, mostly unrelated: what if that communications network Voyager and the Hirogen used was also leftover Iconian junk?
using black holes as power sources for the network...it sounds more like something the romulans might've done, had they been around back then, since they use artificial black holes for power
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That's a provocutive thought, the Iconians not being real Iconians. And like the Sith starting out as a race and over thousands of years, evolving into an ideology.
But my impresson of Stahl's comment was that those ships aren't really subordinates of the "Iconians". Like in Babylon 5 with the Drakh.
Hopefully we learn more about that.
If it was Iconian, then Voyager would've noticed. Besides, seems odd they would go from galactic teleportation 200,000 years to needing a communication network 100,000 later.
So Dan, now that Brandon is on shoreleave you decided to take over teasing us?
You devs. are such teasers! :P
After Tomalak's defeat by Donatra and her fleet, Praetor Tal'aura removed him as proconsul, choosing Sela as her right hand and fleet commander. Sela, a human-Romulan hybrid with extensive experience in the military and intelligence fields, was a part of several major Romulan operations, including a failed a attempt to invade Vulcan and coordinating support for the House of Duras's attempt to take over the Klingon High Council in 2367. As a gift to Tomalak for his decades of loyal service to the Romulan Star Empire, Tal'aura allowed him to "retire" to his rural estates on Romulus.
On Stardate 61602.00, Tal'aura was found dead in her private chambers. Tal Shiar investigators reported that the praetor was attacked as she slept.
The Romulan capital erupted in a firestorm of rumors and accusations. Among the groups suspected of carrying out the assassination was a coalition of the noble houses, the Tal Shiar or agents working for Empress Donatra and the Imperial Romulan State.
Donatra denied having anything to do with the murder. "I face my enemies on the field of battle with honor," the empress announced in an address to her citizens, "not with a knife in the dark." Days later, Donatra recalled Taris from Romulus and ordered her to prepare to defend Imperial holdings.
At Tal'aura's funeral in Ki Baratan, Sela publically [sic] blamed the Remans and the Unification movement for the attack. "They claim to desire peace," Sela said, "but ally with the murderers and usurpers who terroized [sic] our planet and led us to the brink of destruction. The blood of one praetor was not enough for the Remans. Tal'aura was the victim of their thirst for destruction."
In Romulan space, what began as a tumultuous year after the assassination of Praetor Tal'aura settled down into what was believed to be long-term solution, and both Starfleet and the Klingon Empire pulled back some ships from the borders of Romulan space.
In the weeks following Tal'aura's death, her proconsul Sela stepped in to take the reins of control in the government. Granted temporary executive powers by the Senate as an emergency measure, Sela used them to replace more than two dozen senators with representatives of noble houses who had opposed Tal'aura's rule. Among Sela's apointees was the influential noble Chulan of the Line of Tellus.
The backing of the nobles gave Sela the clout she needed to run the government, but she did not have the support of the military or the Tal Shiar and her regime was generally expected to be short-lived.
Rehaek, the leader of the Tal Shiar, made a rare public appearance to announce that he would personally lead the investigation into the assassination that he would personally lead the investigation into the assassination of Praetor Tal'aura. "There are certain things which may seem expedient but which honor abhors. We cannot allow this crime to go unanswered."
And Empress Donatra of the Imperial Romulan State won hearts among the people of Romulus by offering food shipments to non-military settlements.
Federation experts feared a three-way struggle for control of Romulus, but instead Donatra met with Sela and Rehaek to find a peaceful solution.
The three begrudgingly agreed to put their personal disputes aside for the good of the Empire, and the worlds of the Imperial Romulan State were folded back into the Romulan Star Empire. Donatra held onto the reins of power of the military and kept much of her forces safely off-world in case the peace didn't hold.
With the threat of civil war averted, the Senate opened debate on who to elect the new praetor. Sela, as Tal'aura's proconsul, was one of the leading candidates, and she made a play for the position. But rumors of her possible involvement in the plot to assassinate Tal'aura dogged her campaign, and when Donatra declined to endorse Sela's campaign her defeat was almost assured.
After an extensive debate, Senator Chulan was chosen to be the new praetor. He was a compromise candidate who was acceptable to, but not strongly supported by, any of the major powers. Federation analysts predicted that without the backing of a coalition of factions, Chulan would be a weak leader.
Donatra, who most agreed was the broker of the newfound peace on Romulus, traveled to Remus to meet General Xiomek of the Remans. She offered the Remans full citizenship in the empire and representation in the Romulan Senate in exchange for their support.
While Sela opposed the plan, which she saw as rewarding the Remans for a violent uprising, she and Praetor Chulan did not have the strength to oppose Donatra's power.
The physical strength of the Remans, as well as their supplies of dilithium and heavy metals, added to Donatra's formidable military strength, and she had the resources to reopen shipyards and munitions plants closed since Shinzon's revolt. As resources flowed back to Romulus from Remus and the worlds Donatra controlled, energy rationing and food lines became a thing of the past.
The Romulan Senate was reluctant to deal with the Remans but was swayed by popular support for Donatra, and the senators reluctantly vote to allow Xiomek to take a seat in the Sentate and to extend citizenship to the Remans. In common practice, however, most Romulans continued to treat Remans as second-class citizens, and the Remans were reluctant to relocate to Romulan settlements.
On Stardate 63322.55, Rehaek, leader of the Tal Shiar, sent a statement to the praetor and the leaders of the Romulan Senate with the conclusions of his investigation into the assassination of Praetor Tal'aura. Rehaek ruled that Tal'aura was killed by agents loyal to a coalition of noble houses angered by her reformation of the Senate.
Both Donatra and Sela requested to see the evidence that backed up his claims, but Rehaek refused to divulge his complete findings.
In retaliation for the death of Tal'aura, the Tal Shiar began a campaign of assaults on the noble houses, arresting dozens of nobles and seizing their assets. Sela pushed back against the persecution of her major supporters, and in response swayed the Senate to drastically cut funding to the Tal Shiar.
In a speech before the Senate, Sela accused elements inside the Tal Shiar of knowing about the plot to assassinate Tal'aura but doing nothing to stop it. "Does standing silent make them as culpable as the killers?" Sela asked. "In abandoning their sworn duty to protect the praetor, as a symbol of Romulus itself, they are no better than those who wielded the knives that killed her."
Donatra refused to take sides in the conflict between Sela and Rehaek, and instead encouraged the praetor to handle the situation. Praetor Chulan appointed a Senate committee to formally investigate the matter, but the committee took little action.
On Stardate 63446.41, an explosion destroyed Rehaek's home on the outskirts of Ki Baratan. Observers reported several visitors to the estate of the leader of the Romulan Tal Shiar in the hours before the blast, any of whom could have planted the explosives. The remains of Rehaek's wife and young daughter and several servants were found in the wreckage, but no trace of Rehaek was ever found. Investigators theorized that the blast was intense enough to have vaporized anyone close to the point of detonation.
Two hours after the explosion, Tal Shiar forces stormed Sela's townhouse in Ki Baratan, taking her and her personal guard into custody for the murder of Rehaek. In a secret trial held days later, Sela was sentenced to death for the crime. At the last minute, Donatra intervened. She argued that the evidence was not overwhelming, and pressured Praetor Chulan to allow Sela and her supporters to accept permanent exile instead of death.
The leader of the Romulan fleet, Admiral Taris, maintained a low profile during the troubles, putting many of her responsibilities in the hands of General Tebok. Late in 2386, she informed Donatra that she planned to take her ship to Levaeri V to investigate claims that a blade believed to be the Sword of the Raptor Star had been recovered.
The ancient sword, reputed to be one of the swords created by Vulcan swordsmith S'harien and taken into exile by S'task, was a revered artifact of the Sundering.
On Stardate 64317.6, Klingon long range sensors picked up a small Romulan fleet led by Sela. The fleet passed the Beta Stromgrem supernova remnant and continued into unexplored space.
Taris' victory in the Zeta Pictoris system rallied the Romulans, who were desperately seeking a sign of their former glory. Rator III was the first to proclaim Taris as the leader of the Romulan Star Empire, quickly followed by Achenar Prime and more than a dozen other worlds.
In an address broadcast throughout the empire, Taris said "I am a military commander, and I would prefer to remain so. The seas of politics are rife with submerged hazards and hidden perils, and a wise person does well to avoid them. But my Empire calls and I cannot resist her plea."
Taris called on the leaders of the colony worlds to meet at Rator III to select representatives for a new Romulan Senate and to make plans for a new capital.
A Federation operative inserted into the fleet that departed Romulan space with Sela in 2386 reported that Sela and her followers landed on Makar, an M-class planet in the Beta Quadrant with abundant supplies of decalithium and heavy metals. A humanoid race with technology equivalent to Earth's Iron Age inhabited two of Makar's temperature southern continents, but Sela saw the population as an additional natural resource, and within weeks her forces had hundreds of Makarans working in the mines.
The operative also reported that Sela's ship picked up a signal that was similar to the artificial quantum singularities that the Romulans use to power their warp drives, as well as signs of a massive gravitational field. Sela dispatched two ships to investigate these anomalies.
Starfleet observation posts saw an increase in ship traffic going to the far reaches of the Beta Quadrant. Reports indicated that the Dopterians were funneling ships and supplies to Romulan exile Sela and her followers in exchange for decalithium. Ships similar to those found in reports from the U.S.S. Voyager also were sighted in the region.
Since Sela was well out of Federation space, Starfleet had no grounds on which to stop the trade. However, Starfleet Intelligence kept a close eye on the situation, and they were formulating a plan in case Sela became a threat to the Federation. Also, since decalithium is a highly restricted substance, any ore that the Dopterians brought into Federation space was subject to seizure.
On Nova Roma, Praetor Taris clashed yet again with the Romulan Senate over a plan to further restrict the powers of the praetor. Taris made a rare personal appearance before the Senate to argue against the proposal.
"In the absence of a monarch, and at a time of extreme upheaval in the Alpha and Beta quadrants," Taris said, "We must have one voice to speak for our empire to the galaxy. Only by expanding the praetor's powers will we have stability and strength. A disharmonious chorus leads to chaos."
Taris swayed some Senators to her side, but her general unpopularity with the Romulan populace doomed her call for expanding executive powers. The Senate proceeded with its plan to limit the power of the praetor.
In another possible problem for Taris, agents for Starfleet Intelligence intercepted and decoded several messages from Nova Roma to a planet deep in the Beta Quadrant. These messages pointed out irregularities in the reports about the death of General Tebok and the destruction of the I.R.W. Alth'lndor. Starfleet Intelligence agents reported that Sela had ordered her spies to investigate and find the truth of the matter.
Starfleet Intelligence observers reported a possible uprising in Romulan space that could further destabilize the already troubled empire.
"Velal has had enough," said one anonymous observer. "But to get rid of the devil, he might be making a deal with Fek'Ihr."
The commander of the Romulan Second Fleet reported met with Sela and some of her exiled followers in the Zeta Volantis system. Following that rendezvous, General Velal gathered a trusted group of ship commanders.
"Taris must be removed for the good of the Empire," said a source close to General Velal. "Velal's alliance with Sela will give him the ships and weapons he needs to make that happen. We don't want a civil war, but we know that there will be some parts of the fleet that will remain loyal to the praetor."
In Romulan space, trouble flared when General Velal appeared before the Romulan Senate and demanded that Praetor Taris resign before she was removed from office by force. Velal had the backing of many of the senators, although a vote of no confidence failed by a minor margin.
In response, Taris called for ships of the fleet loyal to the legitimate government of the Romulan Star Empire to engage those supporting the revolution. There were multiple skirmishes between the two groups, and when Sela's fleet re-enterd Romulan space in support Velal, the conflict moved into open warfare.
In Romulan space, the conflict between Praetor Taris and General Velal continued to divide the already fractured empire. Kevatras and Abraxas Prime threw their support behind the rebellion, giving Velal and Sela's forces much needed safe havens and supply bases.
The war came to an abrupt end on Stardate 80957.96, when forces of the Romulan Second Fleet approached Rator III.
"The praetor had been locked in her rooms for a few days at this point, and she wouldn't allow anyone to enter," a Starfleet Intelligence observer reported. "Her staff finally broke down the door when Velal's fleet entered orbit. I think they were trying to get Taris to safety - but she was already gone."
An extensive search of the palace turned up no clues. The Tal Shiar extended the search to all of Nova Roma, but Praetor Taris has disappeared.
Velal and Sela landed in Nova Roma while the search for Praetor Taris was still ongoing, and proceeded directly to the Romulan Senate.
"Sela made a very pretty speech about how she was a loyal Romulan and a friend to the Senate, and not once did she mention the dozens of Warbirds she had in orbit over their heads," said Mira Mandel of the Federation News Service. "No one was surprised when the Senators tripped over themselves to offer her their fealty."
The Senate named Sela as praetor and General Velal as the leader of the Romulan fleet by acclamation. The reign of Praetor Taris was over.
The Romulan Star Empire was enjoying a time of peace that it hadn't seen since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld almost two decades before. Praetor Sela settled long-simmering disputes between colony worlds, opened the Romulus memorial at the remains of the homeworld, and gently shaped the Senate to her way of thinking.
"She's using a little bit of blackmail, a dose of charm and a lot of guile," said a Starfleet Intelligence operative on Nova Roma. "But Romulus hasn't had a leader who can pull people together like she can since Donatra disappeared."
In Romulan space, Starfleet Intelligence observers reported that Sela revived one of Praetor Taris' ideas - a Romulan monarch.
"Sela hasn't said a word about it herself, of course, but allies of hers in the Senate are floating the idea," one agent said. "And it's not a coincident that people have started making comparisons between Sela and beloved Romulan rulers like Ael i-Mhiessan t'Rllaillieu.
"There's even a quiet search going on for the Sword of S'task, even though everyone believes it was destroyed when the homeworld was lost."
On Stardate 85365.28, years of instability and infighting in the Romulan Star Empire seemingly came to a close with the coronation of Empress Sela. The new empress would not have a praetor, and the Senate would serve at her pleasure.
"Security has clamped down in the capital," a Starfleet Intelligence source inside Romulan space said. "The Romulans say that they have reason to believe that there may be an assassination attempt on the empress, but I think it's more than that. This is the first time Sela can show just how much control she has."
Observers at the coronation of Empress Sela said that it proceeded with as much pomp and circumstance as the recovering Romulan Star Empire could muster. Sela called for a return to the traditions of old, including the carrying of honor blades and blood oaths.
In fact, before taking the crown the empress used a jeweled blade to cut her own palm. As the blood dripped down onto a rug of white fur, Sela took an oath to uphold and preserve the empire with her life.
"Tradition is very important in this new order," the SI source said. "Sela is consciously recalling a golden age on the old homeworld, and using those memories to inspire the people. They're talking about mnhei'sahe again, and a lot of people have started referring to Nova Roma as Mol'Rihan, which is 'New Romulus' in High Rihannsu."
Unless I'm grossly mis-remembering, the only time the Drakh didn't use their own ships was when they deployed the Planet Killer in Call to Arms. Or are you saying that what we're calling "Iconians" are something else entirely, and we haven't actually seen "true" Iconian ships?
Well, we don't necessarily know that the Drakh did build what we commonly think of as "Drakh ships." The Shadows could have simply built them with a different design.
I do think he was suggesting that we may not have seen true Iconian ships, though.
Side note: are we all assuming that the Iconians are also behind the re-emergence of the "Fek'Ihri" in the KDF storyline? The final mission suggests that the whole thing may have been a ruse orchestrated by someone, for some reason.
While I don't think there's any evidence to contradict (or support) that notion, I will point out that the other races known to have been working for the Shadows (most notably the Stribe (sp?)) had developed their own, very different, ships. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of them being some sort of hybrid construction (such as the White Stars) though.
That seems extremely likely to me.
The one thing going against that idea is the extremely dismal success rate both the Stribe and Drakh had against "conventional" ships fielded by the younger races.
Interesting.
That said, I think maybe you should look at missions that pull together what we know. TV shows tend to do this. Look at some of the serial greats in modern TV from Twin Peaks to DS9 to Buffy to Lost and you'll see they have episodes that piece things together or cap them off.
It's nice to see this in a forum post and it would always be cool to see certain regular storyline episodes get somehow featured for replay but I think a big thing STO needs are places where the pieces get put together in game.
That was at the heart of the content system I was talking about awhile ago on here. But even just an episode where, in the course of it, we get this stuff summarized.
Heck, you guys have the conference room map on DS9. I'd be somewhat happy even if you just added that to the static map and let us go there to review storyline details, with a bit of commentary on them. The dialogues available could grow based on mission completion, DOff categories, rep, lore accolades, etc. But we could go there and get someone to filter all this stuff down into digestible briefings, separating fact from conjecture and piecing together how things fit in a meaningful way.
I have some ideas into how even that could make for an interesting side system. But I'm a big fan of this kind of stuff. Spent many hours hunting the Ashbringer in WoW. Loved all the conspiracy/whiteboard episodes of TNG/DS9/Voyager.
Would really love it if you could get Jack from Dr. Bashir's band of augments and either the other misfits or a new class of them. It would crack me up to have them going crazy sorting out the game's lore and then come up with new ideas based on what we can give them.
My side thought on this is that we're only assuming the Iconians are from the past. We know they were active in the past and then disappeared but given their ability to travel across time and space and dimensions, we can't really know where they're from.
One of the more compelling things I could see being linked to them is the placement of the Tox Uthat on Risa, which I don't know was ever explained aside from being a future weapon designed to cause supernovae that happened to wind up in Risa's past. Given the Iconians are causing supernovae... It could be a link but would suggest they may be based in the future and that their influence 200k years ago might simply be them messing with history.
Adjective
(esp. of an argument, story, or sentence) Extremely complex and difficult to follow.
That is indeed what I'm suggesting what Stahl was implying.
I had the same line of thought as well. Even before they added these "Iconian" ships, when they added the Feklhri storyline, I always had the impression that they were really servants of the Iconians. And when the Iconian ship appeared, that seemed to solidify that fact in my mind. Due to the similar looking fog they emit.
But given Stahl's statement, it's thought provoking to think the Feklhri could very well be the subordinates of the subordinates.
Interesting thought. Seems to take on the parallel of Terra Nova, where they traveled into the distant past to start a new life. But not too sure I want them from the future.
But the thing about the Tox Uthat is that it didn't cause stars to supernova, it ended nuclear fusion within the star. Which means a star wouldn't explode, but implode. Because a supernovae is when the explosive force being kept check by the gravity, overwhelms the gravitational force. But with the end of nuclear fusion, the opposite occurs and gravity overwhelms the explosive force and it basically becomes a dead star.
Of course, I could be wrong with that. That's something for astrophysicists to confirm or deny.
I may have to read back up. The Decipher card game allowed you to trigger a supernova with the Tox. Okay, so then maybe it's the perfect counter in case the Iconians strike again. If only Spock had a Tox Uthat.
Not entirely correct. A supernova (in stars large enough to produce such an explosion) is actually preceded by a massive implosion of the star's core (as the gravity of the core outsrips both the fusion reaction and neutron density's abilities to stop said implosion) that causes a runaway thermal reaction which (after a whole bunch of crazily complicated physics reactions) results in the non-collapsed part of the star to be flung away at insane velocities.
So while the Uthat may initially stop a stellar fusion reaction, another one would almost certainly begin in it's place after core collapse starts. Except this time, it's not a stable warm and glowy one, it's an out of control kaboomy one.
So a tool that stops nuclear fusion in a star is basically a (super)nova maker.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Just one thing then I'll take off my astronomy nerd hat...
A brown dwarf isn't a dead star, it's a massive gas giant that just missed the boat on having enough mass to ignite stellar fusion (think Jupiter, but bigger). I think the term you were looking for was a white dwarf, what's left over after non-ginormous stars die.
Since Iconians were a galaxy (possibly even to nearby galaxies) spanning empire, I'd be surprised if they weren't active in the Delta Quadrant. Still, will we see what they've been up to in the Gamma Quadrant too? I'd imagine they'd love to mess around with the Dominion as well.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
the only way the iconians would have anything to do with the fek'lhri is if the h'urq are servants of or allied with the iconians
remember, there was h'urq DNA in the fek'lhr killed at the end of 'Gates of Gre'thor'
if you recall, tolian soran's trilithium weapon did the same thing, and while that star didn't explode in a supernova, it still released a shockwave powerful enough to obliterate everything it touched
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Oh, yes, sorry. After a while, all the colours and types start merging into one.
More to the topic: I believe that what STO is about to do is throwing pretty much all and any larger event in the galaxy at the Iconians (or whoever personnifies them).
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
What is it with Star Trek and supernovae? :P
Seriously though, I hope Starfleet haven't forgotten about Portal 63, if there's anyone who would be of help against the Iconians it'd be the last vestige of the Tkon Empire.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
I can't wait for the rep system where we have to deal with undine going thru withdrawl from their little injections.
Now, this brings up another theory. The Supernova that destroyed Romulus. If we are going off the presumption that the Tox Uthat (however it's spelled) is possibly an Iconian device, could it be said that in a round-about way, the Iconians were responsible for it?
Perhaps they have been watching the Alpha/Beta Quadrant races for a while now (to them, a while may be 4 or 5 centuries), and have decided that they would use the Romulans as their pawns in their bid to return. However, they didn't like the political structure on Romulus at the time, Engineered the Hobus explosion and resulting destruction of Romulus space.
Then, afterwards, kept an eye on the situation to see who would emerge the as the strongest leader in the remaining political structure. When it was obvious that Sela held the most control, they 'rescued' her, and have been indoctrinating her (basically brainwashing her) into believing that she has found the one power capable of restoring a sense of order to a chaotic galaxy: The Iconians.
Just a theory.
The Armada
Original join date: Feb 5, 2010
Twitter: @davejl_99, & @STO_BBArmada
Fantastic work...Thanks!
Note: You can't have spoilers when everything you have said is completely and totally speculation and conjecture.
Thus, in actual fact, it was a spoiler.