Lol,I'm at the point that I would be happy for universal ensign it deserves by the fleet ships "logic" whatever it is.
True, i am still to thrilled about dontdrunkimshoots Galaxy class 3 pack. Sorry for that.
Sure, we can't expect more than having a universal Ensign at the Fleet Galaxy, but i think that is already more than we can expect.
Funny, i haven't even remotely as much discussions when the Regent was introduced, Excelsior or Ambassador. People don't seem to have a problem with those ships being much better. I have no idea where tat hate against the Galaxy started and i don't care really.
I think it's impossible to reach a consensus with those people. The best thing to do would be if both sides would just ignore each other.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I just watched the DS9 odyssey episode. Knowledge of Klingons, bathleths, and treaty's are all bits that could easily be obtained by looking at the internet. That is not proof of infiltration.
I don't understand the comment here. Yes. Memory Alpha is correct. But if you need further backup, the Star Trek Encyclopedia says pretty much the same thing.
Yes. We do. And I linked them to you. They come from the shows themselves.
But it did last long. As demonstrated in the information gathered from the shows and published on Memory Alpha, or published in print in the Star Trek Encyclopedia.
I ment proof that memory alpha is correct, none. Admitte3dly it's been a awhile since I saw the wounded but I never remember a date for the start of the war but Picard's reaction to the galor firing on it said that thew war was done and has been for a while.
From the TNG era, the Ambassador is regarded as the first "modern" starship. The Norway, Steamrunner, Saber, Akira, and Soveriegn classes, were designed after Wolf 359, from the ground up, as Borg fighters. They had automatically, refrequencing, shield, and weapons systems. The plot device came in, when Picard, suddenly, remembered that their actually was an achilles heal to a ship that was described, explicately, as having multiple, redundancies, to avoid weaknesses.
Yes those ships came out around 2370, well after the time I'm mentioning and the Ambassador would be the most modern ship in the fleet with the Galaxy still a concept.
Hm - yeah, because the likes of Wiki are SO honest and accurate. I'm sure MI5/the FBI/CIA use Google and Wiki all the time to obtain credible intelligence.
And if they had someone who could shapeshift themselves to look like absolutely ANYONE they would chose using 'the internet' instead.
Yeah.
:rolleyes:
And it is, fankly, ridiculous to think that an organisation such as the Federation would place specifics pertaining to a treaty, drawn up with another goverment, on some search engine for anyone to see.
Plus, let us not forgt that we saw visual, canon, evidence that a changling impersonated a Starfleet officer - an Admiral no less. You would HAVE to have some knowledge of the organisation you are infiltrating to be able to impersonate a high-ranking officer from said organisation.
If Federation citizens don't know where the borders are or what the trade rules are it could cause a lot of trouble. We know treaties are public information thanks to the maqee arc too, governments represent themselves on the internet as well just fyi.
Using the changeling as a spy later in the series does not confirm their existence earlier on.
Actual spy work takes an incredible amount of time to prepare for and then execute. This supposed early changeling spy would have to get through tons of federation space, identify targets, allocate mission priorities, and then somehow get the information back half way across the galaxy. Afterwards technological changes would have to be invented and then installed in the correct ships.
Every major battle altering technology in DS9 was discussed, phased polaron weapons, breen emp disrupters, cloak detecting space stations, ketracel white, the war was a myriad of dramatic technical obstacles that necessitated exploration.
Why were these hypothetical shield adaptions left out? Why were federation weapons capable of hurting the borg incapable of hurting the dominion? Why were known infiltrated species weapons able to hurt the Jem Hadar ships? Why didn't this Jem Hadar ability to adapt catch up to federation changes if the Dominion was so far and had such good spies? The logic just doesn't add up.
Memory Alpha is the leading source on star trek information from the television shows and movies. But I also cited the Star Trek Encyclopedia. A published book.
The information both of those sources drew on was the episodes themselves.
Memory Alpha is the leading source on star trek information from the television shows and movies. But I also cited the Star Trek Encyclopedia. A published book.
The information both of those sources drew on was the episodes themselves.
I'm not entirely sure what more proof you need.
until I see the relavent episodes again I'm tabling that part of the discussion
I do believe that the galaxy class has some problems but the Galaxy-x on the other hand... its just been denerfed if properly build a kumara is barely a match
I do believe that the galaxy class has some problems but the Galaxy-x on the other hand... its just been denerfed if properly build a kumara is barely a match
Lol, i must remember this one.
JUST been denerfed?
Maybe when i comes to tankyness, the Galaxy (-X) Class can survive longer in front of a STF gate or something similar, but in every other aspect the galaxy -X is inferior.
As i said in another tread, maybe we should just get rid of all weapons at all and play nurse for (those annoying) Escorts. lol.
EDIT:
I think we could make a form of protest out of it.
Just lets get our Galaxy Classes out of mothball and fly them completely witout weapons, BOFF powers completely defensive and some heals for other players.
So Mr. Rivera can look forward to a storm of customers asking why their teams have suddenly 1/5 less active ships (apparently) in STFs or Fleet Actions.
I'm not saying that it would change very much on the Battlefield, but it would be much more obvious to other players how little the Galaxy Class can really do in STO.
Maybe thats the way we can convince much more players that hte Galaxy Class needs more offensive BOFFs/Consoles. lol.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
From the TNG era, the Ambassador is regarded as the first "modern" starship. The Norway, Steamrunner, Saber, Akira, and Soveriegn classes, were designed after Wolf 359, from the ground up, as Borg fighters. They had automatically, refrequencing, shield, and weapons systems. The plot device came in, when Picard, suddenly, remembered that their actually was an achilles heal to a ship that was described, explicately, as having multiple, redundancies, to avoid weaknesses.
Wasn't that weakness only because of the heavy damage the cube had already sustained, IE it was the last backup available?
<<Thus all onscreen Galaxy deaths are due to plot not ship design.>>
But, isn't EVERYTHING in Star Trek "plot driven". So, should we disregard the following situations too because they were "plot driven"?
1) The Enterprise often being the ONLY ship in the quadrant.
2) The appearence of all near-by nebulas availble for the Enterprise(s) hide out in.
3) Enemy ships making demands from the Enterprise and inexplicably giving them enough time to come up with a plan instead of immediately blowing the Enterprise up.
4) Numerous last minutes rescues for the main characters in near fatal situations.
5) The fact that so many of the main characters survived instead of getting killed due to the various potentially fatal situations that they were in.
6) Etc..
The Ent-D was an explorer ship that even in "Chain of Command" showed that in order to be considered a "battle ready" ship, it had to take several departments/divisions offline. Not just reduced power, but completely offline. Additionally, the Ent-D lost more battles than it won, so just because many people don't like that result, they appear to be rewriting or invalidating what was shown on screen as being "plot driven" when, as I said, everything in Star Trek is plot driven.
<<Thus all onscreen Galaxy deaths are due to plot not ship design.>>
But, isn't EVERYTHING in Star Trek "plot driven". So, should we disregard the following situations too because they were "plot driven"?
...
The Ent-D was an explorer ship that even in "Chain of Command" showed that in order to be considered a "battle ready" ship, it had to take several departments/divisions offline. Not just reduced power, but completely offline. Additionally, the Ent-D lost more battles than it won, so just because many people don't like that result, they appear to be rewriting or invalidating what was shown on screen as being "plot driven" when, as I said, everything in Star Trek is plot driven.
I think you got a point here, if you think how the Enterprise D performed and that it was still possible to make her "Battle Ready", i think the Glaxy Class potential isn't even rudimentary touched in TNG.
Instead of develop this potential, Cryptic prefered to make the Excelsior and Ambassador much more combat capable ships.
In my opinion, the Galaxy Class should have been something like a Cruisers counterpart to the Klingon BOP.
Highly adaptable BOFF & Console Layout which can make the ship either a good science or combat focussed vessel.
Still i don't get why some people have such a problem with a ship they don't even want to use... and if they like to fly that ship as it is they have won already.
What i want is a universal Lt. and Ensign BOFF slot and an additional Tac console slot. I just can't imagine anyone can object that, even people who are pleased with the ship as it is right now because it wouldn't change a thing for them.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Wasn't that weakness only because of the heavy damage the cube had already sustained, IE it was the last backup available?
It might have been, I'd have to watch it again. It felt contrived. Definitely not as creative as "Sleep". Honestly, for a race like the Borg, you'd think they'd have a fail safe to just fry Picard's squash, if he were in danger of capture, to avoid being put in that type of situation.
It might have been, I'd have to watch it again. It felt contrived. Definitely not as creative as "Sleep". Honestly, for a race like the Borg, you'd think they'd have a fail safe to just fry Picard's squash, if he were in danger of capture, to avoid being put in that type of situation.
I found that sollution a bit anticlimactic TBH. After all that fighting and struggle, they just send the Brog to "sleep"?
It felt the writers couldn't find a better way out of that situation.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I found that sollution a bit anticlimactic TBH. After all that fighting and struggle, they just send the Brog to "sleep"?
It felt the writers couldn't find a better way out of that situation.
It may have been anti-climactic, but how else could you win an unwinnable fight? Think outside the box, change the parameters. There you have it, Kobayashi Maru scenario, practically applied. Brute force doesn't have to solve every problem.
I have come to the conclusion that Cryptic are not fans of The Next Generation because at every turn they have basically placated the Galaxy Class, even the Fleet Version is appalling compared to the ludicrous upgrades that the Defiant gets (5 Tactical Console Slots... Really!?)...
I am trying to get to the bottom as to why Cryptic continually hate on the Galaxy Class. It seems as if they only put it in the game to give a "Star Trek Feeling" but have put no effort into the Galaxies design or set up.
First off, why on Earth does an Excelsior and Fleet Excelsior (4 Tactical Console Slots btw and 1 Lieutenant Commander Console) complete outpower a Galaxy when the Galaxy is a newer and more tactically powerful ship!
The Galaxy Class in the game is COMPLETELY disappointing compared to its on screen counter part. Thats all well and good but you had a chance to change that and what do you do... PUT ANOTHER ENGINEERING CONSOLE ON IT!
It doesn't need that! What it needs is Tactical Power and not to be completely useless next to the Odyssey, a ship which you try to force most cruiser captains to use... I want more love for the Galaxy Class and less biased towards the Odyssey... Make the Galaxy Class a viable ship!
I have come to the conclusion that Cryptic know absolutely nothing about Star Trek and we'd be better off with the actual Star Trek fans producing this game because at least they could get the ships actually right to begin with.
Not that note, I love flying the Galaxy Class Dreadnought/Galx. You'd think by now they would at least come up with a Retrofit, or Fleet version. They haven't done that yet. And honestly mostly either because of the community hate or fear, the Dreadnought is mostly a relic thrown under rug.
I agree that the Galaxy Class/Dreadnought should have more Tactical and Science added to the console and boff stations. Again this is a ship class that is mostly just put on a back burner then left alone.
Not that note, I love flying the Galaxy Class Dreadnought/Galx. You'd think by now they would at least come up with a Retrofit, or Fleet version. They haven't done that yet. And honestly mostly either because of the community hate or fear, the Dreadnought is mostly a relic thrown under rug.
They can't come up with a retrofit version. The idea of retrofit is to take a lower tier ship and boost it up to the top tier. The Dreadnought already is the top tier. It doesn't have 10 consoles, but according to Geko's ship balance budget that's because of the lance power. When this ship first appeared it had a built in cloak and a lance so it lost a weapon slot. The cloaks all got revamped, it got an extra weapon slot. But the ship budget is still in effect.
They may put out a fleet version. That's entirely possible.
But it's unlikely they'll do a retrofit of a ship that already clocks in, budget-wise, at the top of the pyramid in ship power.
Keep in mind, the original retrofits were taking the T4 captain rank ships and making them T5 Rear Admiral ships. The Galaxy X was already a T5 Admiral ship.
They can't come up with a retrofit version. The idea of retrofit is to take a lower tier ship and boost it up to the top tier. The Dreadnought already is the top tier. It doesn't have 10 consoles, but according to Geko's ship balance budget that's because of the lance power. When this ship first appeared it had a built in cloak and a lance so it lost a weapon slot. The cloaks all got revamped, it got an extra weapon slot. But the ship budget is still in effect.
They may put out a fleet version. That's entirely possible.
But it's unlikely they'll do a retrofit of a ship that already clocks in, budget-wise, at the top of the pyramid in ship power.
Keep in mind, the original retrofits were taking the T4 captain rank ships and making them T5 Rear Admiral ships. The Galaxy X was already a T5 Admiral ship.
It has been said that a fleet gal dred will likely be in the next fleet ship set.
The Ent-D was an explorer ship that even in "Chain of Command" showed that in order to be considered a "battle ready" ship, it had to take several departments/divisions offline. Not just reduced power, but completely offline. Additionally, the Ent-D lost more battles than it won, so just because many people don't like that result, they appear to be rewriting or invalidating what was shown on screen as being "plot driven" when, as I said, everything in Star Trek is plot driven.
the chain of command was interesting, it really showed how the enterprise in particular was NOT on a war footing, if it was a STO ship with universal stations, those stations were full of science instead of tactical. Jellico was swamping stations, changing procedures, adjusting the ship to maximize battle effectiveness. the D was never really a good bench mark for battle prowess. it was a gilded flagship, a flying embassy, a research institute. it was not set up to be a battleship, but it could have been. the ship was mostly modular, and has the 2 largest arrays, and the 2 largest torp launchers. Jellico making changes shows that the D was not minmaxed for combat, but could be. still, its per shot phaser firepower, and the rate of fire and volume of torp launching, its still top of the line, unmatched.
inconsistent canon is not as good a thing to base game stats on as technical specifications from the manual. there i said it. that is free of plot interference, its the basic tech behind the weapons. the longer the array, the more emitters it has, thus the more powerful beams it can fire. in canon, we can see such shots can fire very rapidly. the effect of shots? thats complexity plot dependent, not tech behind things dependent. the torp launcher is huge, bigger then any other torp launcher. we can see it dump more torps per second then any other canon instance of torp launchers. you can see it kick 10 out all at once. the smaller, more numerous launchers on other ships just because they are smaller, logically arent as burst capable. but theres more of them, depending on the ship, does the ship with a ton of launchers out torp a galaxy? that can be debated ship per ship
it really seems like the only ship that gets any scrutiny around here is the galaxy. other ships having massively better stats then they deserve, people hardly bat an eye. the galaxy deserves not to suck in game, because it was the ship from the best series. it should be viable, maybe not the best, but frigging usable. they could even make a bunch of money off the bundle i propose. its stupid that the ship is in such a sorry state, and they wasted the opportunity for the fleet ship to fix some of its limitations.
..
it really seems like the only ship that gets any scrutiny around here is the galaxy. other ships having massively better stats then they deserve, people hardly bat an eye. the galaxy deserves not to suck in game, because it was the ship from the best series. it should be viable, maybe not the best, but frigging usable. they could even make a bunch of money off the bundle i propose. its stupid that the ship is in such a sorry state, and they wasted the opportunity for the fleet ship to fix some of its limitations.
I can only full agree to everything you said.
Other than most others you see the Chain of command episode similar as i do, a proof of how much potential the Galaxy class has. As i already said, before that episode (and after Picard got his command back) it had impressive firepower.
(Biggest beam emitter array ever, able to preload 10 photons on a row, etc).
With all that alreada established in many TNG episodes, it wasn't even prepared for a large scale War. As much as is dislike Jellico, he showed how viable this ship class is.
I especailly agree to the last part, the galaxy just does not deserve to be the most useless ship in the Game, thats just unworthy for the galaxy class, TNG and let's not forget us fans.
It is a shame especially for Cryptics designers who made it such a laughably bad ship.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
the chain of command was interesting, it really showed how the enterprise in particular was NOT on a war footing, if it was a STO ship with universal stations, those stations were full of science instead of tactical. Jellico was swamping stations, changing procedures, adjusting the ship to maximize battle effectiveness. the D was never really a good bench mark for battle prowess. it was a gilded flagship, a flying embassy, a research institute. it was not set up to be a battleship, but it could have been. the ship was mostly modular, and has the 2 largest arrays, and the 2 largest torp launchers. Jellico making changes shows that the D was not minmaxed for combat, but could be. still, its per shot phaser firepower, and the rate of fire and volume of torp launching, its still top of the line, unmatched.
inconsistent canon is not as good a thing to base game stats on as technical specifications from the manual. there i said it. that is free of plot interference, its the basic tech behind the weapons. the longer the array, the more emitters it has, thus the more powerful beams it can fire. in canon, we can see such shots can fire very rapidly. the effect of shots? thats complexity plot dependent, not tech behind things dependent. the torp launcher is huge, bigger then any other torp launcher. we can see it dump more torps per second then any other canon instance of torp launchers. you can see it kick 10 out all at once. the smaller, more numerous launchers on other ships just because they are smaller, logically arent as burst capable. but theres more of them, depending on the ship, does the ship with a ton of launchers out torp a galaxy? that can be debated ship per ship
it really seems like the only ship that gets any scrutiny around here is the galaxy. other ships having massively better stats then they deserve, people hardly bat an eye. the galaxy deserves not to suck in game, because it was the ship from the best series. it should be viable, maybe not the best, but frigging usable. they could even make a bunch of money off the bundle i propose. its stupid that the ship is in such a sorry state, and they wasted the opportunity for the fleet ship to fix some of its limitations.
For the most part agree. While there has been errors with the galaxy a general idea can be made. That general idea is that the Galaxy while powerful was designed for peaceful exploration first combat second. the 2350's to 2360's was an era of general peace with minor skirmishes here and there. However Starfleet is not completely stupid so they thought they gave the Galaxy enough firepower to do her job. When the Borg and the Dominion showed this to be false we first have the True Venture refit and easily progression to GalX. Truthfully the Gal Retro should so this and have those phaser strips and easily show universal BOFFs slots to truly show this. The Galaxy in essence is a Swiss Army knife.
the galaxy was actually designed during decades of open war with the cardasians, warped up right before DS9 started, multiple tzenkethy wars, sisko served as first officer on a ship that fought in the last one. there was hostility with the tholians too, they destroyed entire starbases, rikers father was the only survivor of 1 such attack. we have been over this stuff 100 times in this thread.
the galaxy was designed during a tense time, were the mainstays of the fleet were ill equipped to deal with aggressive comparable neighbors. compared the the galaxy, the ambassador is extreamly under gunned for its size by the 2350s, with those shrimpy beam arrays. much smaller ships like the cheyenne and new orleans were sporting much longer arrays before the galaxy launched. starfleet wasn't about to launch another battle ship sized explorer that would have its guns become antiquated again.
the venture refit practically got retconned by no cgi galaxy sporting unneeded shrimpy arrays on the neccels. but you can be sure the galaxy in the dominion war were lean means fighting machines compared to the love boat enterprise D. thankfully the galaxy X isn't truly canon. that stupid under slung gun is completely redundant with the power those beam arrays posses. and its a packaging and fire arcing joke compared to a large array too. the galaxy X is simply TRIBBLE.
For the most part agree. While there has been errors with the galaxy a general idea can be made. That general idea is that the Galaxy while powerful was designed for peaceful exploration first combat second. the 2350's to 2360's was an era of general peace with minor skirmishes here and there. However Starfleet is not completely stupid so they thought they gave the Galaxy enough firepower to do her job. When the Borg and the Dominion showed this to be false we first have the True Venture refit and easily progression to GalX. Truthfully the Gal Retro should so this and have those phaser strips and easily show universal BOFFs slots to truly show this. The Galaxy in essence is a Swiss Army knife.
Even IF it where designed in an era of peace (which isn't true) do you really think Starfleet Command is stupid enough NOT to know there is always the next crisis on the way.
As we already have discussed before the Galaxy as we saw it in TNG wasn't even nearly optimized for Combat. It was a ship of Diplomacy, Science and Exploration.
Obviously Mr. Rivera hasn't even bothered to do the research and just made it the most boring ship in the Game, plain said.
The best thing is, no dev ever reads threads like this, because they may won't like what we write. LOL.
In contrast to other "hero" ship classes, like the Sovereign, Defiant or even the Intrepid, the Galaxy didn't even get a playable Fleet variant. For me, this just shows that they just want to make some bucks with that ship without caring to make a good product.
Heck they even gave the Fleet Nova Class more tac consoles and a Lt. Cmdr Tactical BOFF.
If thats not a declaration of war to all Galaxy class fans then i don'tknow. lol.
If they where really interested in making a serious Star Trek game they would give the (Fleet) Galaxy -R an additional universal Console slot and they would change its Ensign Science, Lt. tactical & Science into one LT and one Lt. Cmdr universal.
Heck they could even just give it the BOFF & Console Layout of the Ambassador Class and it still would be way inferior to other Cruisers in STO. (Not that Cruisers would be much useful ships nowadays.)
But realisticly, we won't even get that.
They won't change the Galaxy Class, not before other developers take over, which isn't going to happen.
In my opinion there is no way to convince Cryptics devs to change that ship, they are simply not in the slightest way interested in this ship.
With the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Refit, they have absolutely missed the chance to make the Galaxy Class at least a medicore ship. They made the most important ship in the history of Star Trek (at least for me) completely useless and unplayable. And the worst thing is, they don't even want to admit that or try to correct it...
Shame on them! Ugh
So we can discuss until Christmas and Easter take place at the same day, it just doesn't make any difference.
As long as people are in charge who don't care about making Star Trek Online a good product and solely care about how to suck even more money from our pockets. As long as those people are in charge, we won't get a good Star Trek game.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
the galaxy was actually designed during decades of open war with the cardasians, warped up right before DS9 started, multiple tzenkethy wars, sisko served as first officer on a ship that fought in the last one. there was hostility with the tholians too, they destroyed entire starbases, rikers father was the only survivor of 1 such attack. we have been over this stuff 100 times in this thread.
the galaxy was designed during a tense time, were the mainstays of the fleet were ill equipped to deal with aggressive comparable neighbors. compared the the galaxy, the ambassador is extreamly under gunned for its size by the 2350s, with those shrimpy beam arrays. much smaller ships like the cheyenne and new orleans were sporting much longer arrays before the galaxy launched. starfleet wasn't about to launch another battle ship sized explorer that would have its guns become antiquated again.
the venture refit practically got retconned by no cgi galaxy sporting unneeded shrimpy arrays on the neccels. but you can be sure the galaxy in the dominion war were lean means fighting machines compared to the love boat enterprise D. thankfully the galaxy X isn't truly canon. that stupid under slung gun is completely redundant with the power those beam arrays posses. and its a packaging and fire arcing joke compared to a large array too. the galaxy X is simply TRIBBLE.
any proof of that war being decades long. everything I saw it should have been a First gulf war senario and note the Ambassador was the first class to try the strips so they would be smaller. They expanded on it with the Galaxy. And the practically reason the Venture refit isn't seen is maybe a rush to have the ships cause the skip but truthfully the CGI people forgot them. Remember only a small number were planned to be built when the class was launched. With war looming they had to rush to make more. the Galxays seen in DW were likely incomplete on the inside compared to E-D. After the war they could have been completed and made fully operational.
Even IF it where designed in an era of peace (which isn't true) do you really think Starfleet Command is stupid enough NOT to know there is always the next crisis on the way.
As we already have discussed before the Galaxy as we saw it in TNG wasn't even nearly optimized for Combat. It was a ship of Diplomacy, Science and Exploration.
Obviously Mr. Rivera hasn't even bothered to do the research and just made it the most boring ship in the Game, plain said.
The best thing is, no dev ever reads threads like this, because they may won't like what we write. LOL.
In contrast to other "hero" ship classes, like the Sovereign, Defiant or even the Intrepid, the Galaxy didn't even get a playable Fleet variant. For me, this just shows that they just want to make some bucks with that ship without caring to make a good product.
Heck they even gave the Fleet Nova Class more tac consoles and a Lt. Cmdr Tactical BOFF.
If thats not a declaration of war to all Galaxy class fans then i don'tknow. lol.
If they where really interested in making a serious Star Trek game they would give the (Fleet) Galaxy -R an additional universal Console slot and they would change its Ensign Science, Lt. tactical & Science into one LT and one Lt. Cmdr universal.
Heck they could even just give it the BOFF & Console Layout of the Ambassador Class and it still would be way inferior to other Cruisers in STO. (Not that Cruisers would be much useful ships nowadays.)
But realisticly, we won't even get that.
They won't change the Galaxy Class, not before other developers take over, which isn't going to happen.
In my opinion there is no way to convince Cryptics devs to change that ship, they are simply not in the slightest way interested in this ship.
So we can discuss until Christmas and Easter take place at the same day, it just doesn't make any difference.
As long as people are in charge who don't care about making Star Trek Online a good product and solely care about how to suck even more money from our pockets. As long as those people are in charge, we won't get a good Star Trek game.
I didn't say they were. in the 2360's the Galaxy's closest rival were the Vorcha and D'Deridex. However the borg and the Dominion raised the bar and the Galaxy as is was lacking in that area. so the Venture refit to correct this error. to Fed's defense neither Borg or dominion could be predicted. And since you see the change in fleet layout, Galaxy and Excel get refits to fix this and the launch of more combat oriented ship classes as seen in First contact.
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True, i am still to thrilled about dontdrunkimshoots Galaxy class 3 pack. Sorry for that.
Sure, we can't expect more than having a universal Ensign at the Fleet Galaxy, but i think that is already more than we can expect.
Funny, i haven't even remotely as much discussions when the Regent was introduced, Excelsior or Ambassador. People don't seem to have a problem with those ships being much better. I have no idea where tat hate against the Galaxy started and i don't care really.
I think it's impossible to reach a consensus with those people. The best thing to do would be if both sides would just ignore each other.
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I ment proof that memory alpha is correct, none. Admitte3dly it's been a awhile since I saw the wounded but I never remember a date for the start of the war but Picard's reaction to the galor firing on it said that thew war was done and has been for a while.
Yes those ships came out around 2370, well after the time I'm mentioning and the Ambassador would be the most modern ship in the fleet with the Galaxy still a concept.
If Federation citizens don't know where the borders are or what the trade rules are it could cause a lot of trouble. We know treaties are public information thanks to the maqee arc too, governments represent themselves on the internet as well just fyi.
Using the changeling as a spy later in the series does not confirm their existence earlier on.
Actual spy work takes an incredible amount of time to prepare for and then execute. This supposed early changeling spy would have to get through tons of federation space, identify targets, allocate mission priorities, and then somehow get the information back half way across the galaxy. Afterwards technological changes would have to be invented and then installed in the correct ships.
Every major battle altering technology in DS9 was discussed, phased polaron weapons, breen emp disrupters, cloak detecting space stations, ketracel white, the war was a myriad of dramatic technical obstacles that necessitated exploration.
Why were these hypothetical shield adaptions left out? Why were federation weapons capable of hurting the borg incapable of hurting the dominion? Why were known infiltrated species weapons able to hurt the Jem Hadar ships? Why didn't this Jem Hadar ability to adapt catch up to federation changes if the Dominion was so far and had such good spies? The logic just doesn't add up.
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The same special effects for phaser impacts on bugs are used later in the series, after the supposed fix to federation weapons took place.
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Memory Alpha is the leading source on star trek information from the television shows and movies. But I also cited the Star Trek Encyclopedia. A published book.
The information both of those sources drew on was the episodes themselves.
I'm not entirely sure what more proof you need.
until I see the relavent episodes again I'm tabling that part of the discussion
If you want I can also go dig up relevant text from the Episode Guide.
Lol, i must remember this one.
JUST been denerfed?
Maybe when i comes to tankyness, the Galaxy (-X) Class can survive longer in front of a STF gate or something similar, but in every other aspect the galaxy -X is inferior.
As i said in another tread, maybe we should just get rid of all weapons at all and play nurse for (those annoying) Escorts. lol.
EDIT:
I think we could make a form of protest out of it.
Just lets get our Galaxy Classes out of mothball and fly them completely witout weapons, BOFF powers completely defensive and some heals for other players.
So Mr. Rivera can look forward to a storm of customers asking why their teams have suddenly 1/5 less active ships (apparently) in STFs or Fleet Actions.
I'm not saying that it would change very much on the Battlefield, but it would be much more obvious to other players how little the Galaxy Class can really do in STO.
Maybe thats the way we can convince much more players that hte Galaxy Class needs more offensive BOFFs/Consoles. lol.
Wasn't that weakness only because of the heavy damage the cube had already sustained, IE it was the last backup available?
But, isn't EVERYTHING in Star Trek "plot driven". So, should we disregard the following situations too because they were "plot driven"?
1) The Enterprise often being the ONLY ship in the quadrant.
2) The appearence of all near-by nebulas availble for the Enterprise(s) hide out in.
3) Enemy ships making demands from the Enterprise and inexplicably giving them enough time to come up with a plan instead of immediately blowing the Enterprise up.
4) Numerous last minutes rescues for the main characters in near fatal situations.
5) The fact that so many of the main characters survived instead of getting killed due to the various potentially fatal situations that they were in.
6) Etc..
The Ent-D was an explorer ship that even in "Chain of Command" showed that in order to be considered a "battle ready" ship, it had to take several departments/divisions offline. Not just reduced power, but completely offline. Additionally, the Ent-D lost more battles than it won, so just because many people don't like that result, they appear to be rewriting or invalidating what was shown on screen as being "plot driven" when, as I said, everything in Star Trek is plot driven.
Instead of develop this potential, Cryptic prefered to make the Excelsior and Ambassador much more combat capable ships.
In my opinion, the Galaxy Class should have been something like a Cruisers counterpart to the Klingon BOP.
Highly adaptable BOFF & Console Layout which can make the ship either a good science or combat focussed vessel.
Still i don't get why some people have such a problem with a ship they don't even want to use... and if they like to fly that ship as it is they have won already.
What i want is a universal Lt. and Ensign BOFF slot and an additional Tac console slot. I just can't imagine anyone can object that, even people who are pleased with the ship as it is right now because it wouldn't change a thing for them.
It might have been, I'd have to watch it again. It felt contrived. Definitely not as creative as "Sleep". Honestly, for a race like the Borg, you'd think they'd have a fail safe to just fry Picard's squash, if he were in danger of capture, to avoid being put in that type of situation.
It felt the writers couldn't find a better way out of that situation.
It may have been anti-climactic, but how else could you win an unwinnable fight? Think outside the box, change the parameters. There you have it, Kobayashi Maru scenario, practically applied. Brute force doesn't have to solve every problem.
Not that note, I love flying the Galaxy Class Dreadnought/Galx. You'd think by now they would at least come up with a Retrofit, or Fleet version. They haven't done that yet. And honestly mostly either because of the community hate or fear, the Dreadnought is mostly a relic thrown under rug.
I agree that the Galaxy Class/Dreadnought should have more Tactical and Science added to the console and boff stations. Again this is a ship class that is mostly just put on a back burner then left alone.
They can't come up with a retrofit version. The idea of retrofit is to take a lower tier ship and boost it up to the top tier. The Dreadnought already is the top tier. It doesn't have 10 consoles, but according to Geko's ship balance budget that's because of the lance power. When this ship first appeared it had a built in cloak and a lance so it lost a weapon slot. The cloaks all got revamped, it got an extra weapon slot. But the ship budget is still in effect.
They may put out a fleet version. That's entirely possible.
But it's unlikely they'll do a retrofit of a ship that already clocks in, budget-wise, at the top of the pyramid in ship power.
Keep in mind, the original retrofits were taking the T4 captain rank ships and making them T5 Rear Admiral ships. The Galaxy X was already a T5 Admiral ship.
It has been said that a fleet gal dred will likely be in the next fleet ship set.
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the chain of command was interesting, it really showed how the enterprise in particular was NOT on a war footing, if it was a STO ship with universal stations, those stations were full of science instead of tactical. Jellico was swamping stations, changing procedures, adjusting the ship to maximize battle effectiveness. the D was never really a good bench mark for battle prowess. it was a gilded flagship, a flying embassy, a research institute. it was not set up to be a battleship, but it could have been. the ship was mostly modular, and has the 2 largest arrays, and the 2 largest torp launchers. Jellico making changes shows that the D was not minmaxed for combat, but could be. still, its per shot phaser firepower, and the rate of fire and volume of torp launching, its still top of the line, unmatched.
inconsistent canon is not as good a thing to base game stats on as technical specifications from the manual. there i said it. that is free of plot interference, its the basic tech behind the weapons. the longer the array, the more emitters it has, thus the more powerful beams it can fire. in canon, we can see such shots can fire very rapidly. the effect of shots? thats complexity plot dependent, not tech behind things dependent. the torp launcher is huge, bigger then any other torp launcher. we can see it dump more torps per second then any other canon instance of torp launchers. you can see it kick 10 out all at once. the smaller, more numerous launchers on other ships just because they are smaller, logically arent as burst capable. but theres more of them, depending on the ship, does the ship with a ton of launchers out torp a galaxy? that can be debated ship per ship
it really seems like the only ship that gets any scrutiny around here is the galaxy. other ships having massively better stats then they deserve, people hardly bat an eye. the galaxy deserves not to suck in game, because it was the ship from the best series. it should be viable, maybe not the best, but frigging usable. they could even make a bunch of money off the bundle i propose. its stupid that the ship is in such a sorry state, and they wasted the opportunity for the fleet ship to fix some of its limitations.
Other than most others you see the Chain of command episode similar as i do, a proof of how much potential the Galaxy class has. As i already said, before that episode (and after Picard got his command back) it had impressive firepower.
(Biggest beam emitter array ever, able to preload 10 photons on a row, etc).
With all that alreada established in many TNG episodes, it wasn't even prepared for a large scale War. As much as is dislike Jellico, he showed how viable this ship class is.
I especailly agree to the last part, the galaxy just does not deserve to be the most useless ship in the Game, thats just unworthy for the galaxy class, TNG and let's not forget us fans.
It is a shame especially for Cryptics designers who made it such a laughably bad ship.
The Constitution was the ship from the best series.
The ship is usable. For Aid the Planet missions and DOFF assignments, which could almost perfectly emulate a good chunk of TNG!
(I kid, I kid).
For the most part agree. While there has been errors with the galaxy a general idea can be made. That general idea is that the Galaxy while powerful was designed for peaceful exploration first combat second. the 2350's to 2360's was an era of general peace with minor skirmishes here and there. However Starfleet is not completely stupid so they thought they gave the Galaxy enough firepower to do her job. When the Borg and the Dominion showed this to be false we first have the True Venture refit and easily progression to GalX. Truthfully the Gal Retro should so this and have those phaser strips and easily show universal BOFFs slots to truly show this. The Galaxy in essence is a Swiss Army knife.
the galaxy was designed during a tense time, were the mainstays of the fleet were ill equipped to deal with aggressive comparable neighbors. compared the the galaxy, the ambassador is extreamly under gunned for its size by the 2350s, with those shrimpy beam arrays. much smaller ships like the cheyenne and new orleans were sporting much longer arrays before the galaxy launched. starfleet wasn't about to launch another battle ship sized explorer that would have its guns become antiquated again.
the venture refit practically got retconned by no cgi galaxy sporting unneeded shrimpy arrays on the neccels. but you can be sure the galaxy in the dominion war were lean means fighting machines compared to the love boat enterprise D. thankfully the galaxy X isn't truly canon. that stupid under slung gun is completely redundant with the power those beam arrays posses. and its a packaging and fire arcing joke compared to a large array too. the galaxy X is simply TRIBBLE.
Even IF it where designed in an era of peace (which isn't true) do you really think Starfleet Command is stupid enough NOT to know there is always the next crisis on the way.
As we already have discussed before the Galaxy as we saw it in TNG wasn't even nearly optimized for Combat. It was a ship of Diplomacy, Science and Exploration.
Obviously Mr. Rivera hasn't even bothered to do the research and just made it the most boring ship in the Game, plain said.
The best thing is, no dev ever reads threads like this, because they may won't like what we write. LOL.
In contrast to other "hero" ship classes, like the Sovereign, Defiant or even the Intrepid, the Galaxy didn't even get a playable Fleet variant. For me, this just shows that they just want to make some bucks with that ship without caring to make a good product.
Heck they even gave the Fleet Nova Class more tac consoles and a Lt. Cmdr Tactical BOFF.
If thats not a declaration of war to all Galaxy class fans then i don'tknow. lol.
If they where really interested in making a serious Star Trek game they would give the (Fleet) Galaxy -R an additional universal Console slot and they would change its Ensign Science, Lt. tactical & Science into one LT and one Lt. Cmdr universal.
Heck they could even just give it the BOFF & Console Layout of the Ambassador Class and it still would be way inferior to other Cruisers in STO. (Not that Cruisers would be much useful ships nowadays.)
But realisticly, we won't even get that.
They won't change the Galaxy Class, not before other developers take over, which isn't going to happen.
In my opinion there is no way to convince Cryptics devs to change that ship, they are simply not in the slightest way interested in this ship.
With the Fleet Exploration Cruiser Refit, they have absolutely missed the chance to make the Galaxy Class at least a medicore ship. They made the most important ship in the history of Star Trek (at least for me) completely useless and unplayable. And the worst thing is, they don't even want to admit that or try to correct it...
Shame on them! Ugh
So we can discuss until Christmas and Easter take place at the same day, it just doesn't make any difference.
As long as people are in charge who don't care about making Star Trek Online a good product and solely care about how to suck even more money from our pockets. As long as those people are in charge, we won't get a good Star Trek game.
any proof of that war being decades long. everything I saw it should have been a First gulf war senario and note the Ambassador was the first class to try the strips so they would be smaller. They expanded on it with the Galaxy. And the practically reason the Venture refit isn't seen is maybe a rush to have the ships cause the skip but truthfully the CGI people forgot them. Remember only a small number were planned to be built when the class was launched. With war looming they had to rush to make more. the Galxays seen in DW were likely incomplete on the inside compared to E-D. After the war they could have been completed and made fully operational.
I didn't say they were. in the 2360's the Galaxy's closest rival were the Vorcha and D'Deridex. However the borg and the Dominion raised the bar and the Galaxy as is was lacking in that area. so the Venture refit to correct this error. to Fed's defense neither Borg or dominion could be predicted. And since you see the change in fleet layout, Galaxy and Excel get refits to fix this and the launch of more combat oriented ship classes as seen in First contact.