I agree with most of what you posted, except this part. Because right now, the T5 for cruisers looks like this:
Galaxy-R, Galaxy-X, Fleet Galaxy, Sovereign, Sovereign Refit, Fleet Sovereign, Mirror Sovereign, Fleet Cheyenne, Nomad, Mirror Nomad, Free Odyssey, the other three Odysseys, the free Ambassador and the Fleet Ambassador. Also toss in the breen, ferengi and cardassian lockbox ships.
It's a crowded mishmash of ships from all over the timeline. And the difference between the Fleet Cheyenne, the Galaxy X, and fleet Ambassador (just picking a trio from different eras) is so minimal that I can't really see how age or technology of the ship applies to any of it.
What I meant by being 45 years old is that at one time the Galaxy might have been a very good ship but in this timeline even as an upgraded Refit/Retrofit it is only considered average in comparison - and I think it's stats reflect that. It wasn't initially built for war and it's upgrades reflect that as well. It's intentionally not stated as an offensive powerhouse due to it's age and original design requirements.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
What I meant by being 45 years old is that at one time the Galaxy might have been a very good ship but in this timeline even as an upgraded Refit/Retrofit it is only considered average in comparison - and I think it's stats reflect that. It wasn't initially built for war and it's upgrades reflect that as well. It's intentionally not stated as an offensive powerhouse due to it's age and original design requirements.
I would buy this explanation, if Excelsior and Ambassadors (even older ships) werent superior in STO. In STO = the older the better obviously. A T5 connie retrofit would have 100k hps and 6 tac consoles for example.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I wanted to cite them as well, but forgot how to spell tzenkethi.
But yeah, throw them into the chronology and there's even more conflict going on.
i dout i spelled it right lol. just for the record, here are all the pre tng conflicts i could find on memory alpha, during galaxy class development. let it never be said again that the federation was at its most docile and peaceful during the galaxy's development
it doesn't reference a specific war with tholians, but there was all this info
Later aggressions
Contact with the Tholians over the next century would be sporadic. In 2353, the Tholians destroyed a Federation starbase. The only survivor of this attack was Kyle Riker, the father of Starfleet Commander William T. Riker. (TNG: "The Icarus Factor")
This attack was said to have taken place during "The Tholian Conflict." In the script of DS9: "Homefront" it is further stated that Admiral Leyton is "a veteran of conflicts with the Romulans, Cardassians, Borg, and the Tholians."
Tholian attacks would remain frequent enough for Starfleet to develop Tholian-based battle simulations. In 2355, during one such simulation, William T. Riker used a notable strategy to calculate a sensory blind spot on a Tholian vessel. (TNG: "Peak Performance")
They would remain a threat well into the 2360s, when it was anticipated by Klingon Special Emissary K'Ehleyr that if a Klingon Civil War were to break out in 2367, the Tholians might eventually be involved. This fear, however, did not come to pass when the civil war broke out months later. (TNG: "Reunion")
I would buy this explanation, if Excelsior and Ambassadors (even older ships) werent superior in STO. In STO = the older the better obviously. A T5 connie retrofit would have 100k hps and 6 tac consoles for example.
I don't think the Fleet Ambassador is superior to the Fleet Galaxy - though if you're only looking at it from a DPS perspective it is based on the extra Tac Boff and console. The two ships have two different purposes. So it really just comes down to some people wanting a more DPS and better turning Galaxy.
The Excelsior is an enigma. It was built and sold OP and then they were stuck with it that way - you can't really nerf something that someone bought extra without causing even more player rage then leaving it OP has caused. I would not have released it as a better combat Cruiser then the Sovereign, but that was nearly 3 years ago now.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
So a ship designed in times of peace must be less armed than a ship designed in times of war. Fascinating.
So starfleet command seems to think that peace never ends.
I don't think Starfleet command does plan its ship design in legislative periodes, lol.
Seriously if that's the whole argumend why the Excelsior is much heavier armed than the Galaxy, althrough the Excelsior is almost 100 years older than the Galaxy, then i have no idea how to argue any further.
For me this doesn't make any sense but if it does for you, then i must be from another planet and your logic just goes beyond me.
Still no one can explain me why making the Galaxy Class even playable is such a problem.
Crypitc even made the Akira the Torpedo/Carrier/Esscort boat some people wanted her to be. But to give the Galaxy Class a bit more utility or Firepower is such a problem?
...just pathetic TBH.
Personally i'm just tired to argue the same stuff to the same people over and over.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
all encompassing is completely accurate, its proboly the worst tanks among cruisers in game actually. all my play time in escort and kdf cruisers have shown me how impotent maneuvering is for defense and tanking, guess what the galaxy can do exactly 0 of.
so i will continue to truthfully say it is a combination of every unideal stat, and i will say it in more crass ways when i choose too. that was a very kind way to describe the galaxy R
If you can't admit the three science consoles, 5 eng consoles, and the highest cruiser HP in the Federaton fleet make the Fleet Galaxy an amazing tank regardless of boff setup than this is denial.
If you really think a degree or three of turn rate will help you against an escort or sci on your tail thats even more ridiculous. If you think it makes a difference against cruisers with 1-3 degrees better turning that's weird too.
DDIS, people rely on you for quality game info, misleading them like this is not cool.
So a ship designed in times of peace must be less armed than a ship designed in times of war. Fascinating.
So starfleet command seems to think that peace never ends.
I don't think Starfleet command does plan its ship design in legislative periodes, lol.
If you are addressing that to me I will simply say that I never made such a statement. I said that ships are built with specific purposes, and the Galaxy's purpose was not war. It was designed for exploration and general defense.
Seriously if that's the whole argumend why the Excelsior is much heavier armed than the Galaxy, althrough the Excelsior is almost 100 years older than the Galaxy, then i have no idea how to argue any further.
Answered above. Apparently you're not bothering to read. Zeal for the Galaxy clouds the visions I guess.
Personally i'm just tired to argue the same stuff to the same people over and over.
Somehow I doubt that. Having watched you make the same statements in several different threads even since I've been back to the forum this month I would bet my life that you'll never stop demanding your favorite ship be as good as you want it to be no matter what anyone else might say.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Somehow I doubt that. Having watched you make the same statements in several different threads even since I've been back to the forum this month I would bet my life that you'll never stop demanding your favorite ship be as good as you want it to be no matter what anyone else might say.
Since that game is just a Star Trek themepark, where Torpedo/carrier/DHC Escort Akira Classes are possible and the Excelsior is more powerful than every other cruiser, i thought it wouldn't hurt if the Galaxy would at least a bit fun and useable to fly.
But of course someone is always against anything, i wonder where you where when the Excelsior was introduced, but wait.... introducing it must have been a clever move ...
So, sorry for wasting your time.
Btw, why do you even care?
The Galaxy already is the worst ship in the game and the devs are NOT planning to do anything about it.
You have already won ! :D:D
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
The Galaxy has had more updates and tweeks then any other ship in STO, they have gone back so many times, just to add the "escape hatches" or the proper number of windows in the proper spots because of rabid fans. As for performance, it's a fat ugly (personally never liked the Galaxy class) bloated whale of a ship almost as wide as it is long and it should move like one, at the same time the fleet variant has got's plenty of HP and good slots for a cruiser, Get over it.
I don't think the Fleet Ambassador is superior to the Fleet Galaxy
Clearly you haven't tried the Fleet Ambassador. I have one and it's a beast compared to the Fleet Galaxy. If you fit it out for pure healing with Aux2SIF 3, ET3, TSS3, HE 2, EPTS 2, PH 1, it will tank a Tactical cube as easily as any Fleet Galaxy.
I'd even go so far as to say it's superior to the Fleet Excelsior because of the Lt. Cmdr science options. And, you can have three tac boffs with Romulan Operative traits instead of just one, making its critical hit potential outweigh the Flexcelsior's raw dps.
Since that game is just a Star Trek themepark, where Torpedo/carrier/DHC Escort Akira Classes are possible and the Excelsior is more powerful than every other cruiser, i thought it wouldn't hurt if the Galaxy would at least a bit fun and useable to fly.
First, you do realize in the Tech manual that the Akira was originally thought of as a small carrier, right? Whether you consider the designer's ideas as canon or not doesn't change the fact that that intent was for it to have hanger doors to launch small craft - it was just never show as doing such.
Second, I've already commented on the Excelsior design. One mistake shouldn't automatically require them to make 10 more. As the old saying goes: "two wrongs don't make a right."
But of course someone is always against anything, i wonder where you where when the Excelsior was introduced, but wait.... introducing it must have been a clever move ...
Well, if you were around here 3 years ago you would have seen that I was complaining about why an old ship should be getting a T5 version at all. It should have stayed as a T3 only version - but Cryptic was hurting financially and wanted to make as much money as they could.
Btw, why do you even care?
The Galaxy already is the worst ship in the game and the devs are NOT planning to do anything about it.
You have already won ! :D:D
Just because I don't follow the belief that you have that the Galaxy should be god-like doesn't mean I don't love the Galaxy. I simply understand that it wasn't designed to be an offensive powerhouse. It's a tanking ship, not a DPS ship.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
the ambassador is a shining example of how much good a little station diversity can do for a ship defensibly and offensively. never do you not have enough stations for you to have 1 of every single essential skill, it even turns well because it has the same inertia score as the excelsior, but the sovereign's turn rate. great ship, if only cruiser weapons had any effect on other players anymore.
If you can't admit the three science consoles, 5 eng consoles, and the highest cruiser HP in the Federaton fleet make the Fleet Galaxy an amazing tank regardless of boff setup than this is denial.
If you really think a degree or three of turn rate will help you against an escort or sci on your tail thats even more ridiculous. If you think it makes a difference against cruisers with 1-3 degrees better turning that's weird too.
DDIS, people rely on you for quality game info, misleading them like this is not cool.
theres so few good eng consoles a boat like the galaxy could use, and only 3 much more useful sci consoles is pretty meh compared to the fleet star and ody with 4. its got more hitpoints, big deal. hitpoints are just spike soak, you only need a base of about 33k and you have all you could possibly need. raw hitpoints are nearly irreverent after a certain, low, point, and if you have high resistance even escorts have more hitpoints then they need. the extra hitpoints are only going to delay the inevitable by a second or too when its gonna die anyway. now if it had like 10k more then everything else, that would be something, but it doesn't. with the cooldowns of its station power tripping over each other instead of it having access to more diverse heals, its not even going to be able to fill up all those hitpoints.
if the galaxy had 2 or 3 better turn, i could rotate it, thanks to its low inertia, to show off another shield faceing in as long as it takes another CRF cycle to be fired. i do it all the time on kdf cruisers, and even in the excelsior. the galaxy can only have TRIBBLE TT up time too, so not being able to rotate well enough to bring a fresh facing under fire is doubly a problem.this is a real advantage ships have that are smaller and turn better wile giving up nothing for those advantages.
this is not me being in denial, this is you showing inexperience, in all your points. no one that has done a lot of pvp will disagree with anything ive said about the galaxy, they would say much worse things about it in fact. if you think i give quality game info, why are you calling this into question? i have nothing against the galaxy, its my favorite ship in canon, i would love to say nice things about it, i really would. but its bad, in every way it is possible to be bad. any apparent advantages it might seem it has in console setup or hitpoints is actually irreverent, thanks to power creep the things it has the most of now have the least value.
i know i could tank better in any other cruiser then the galaxy, i know because i have done it back to back.everyhting i have brought up are problems i ran into wile outfitting and useing it. no combination of powers that it can have can beat the ody, excelsior, ambi, assault cruiser, star cruiser or galor at tanking or avoiding damage. it has no redeeming qualities, thus the threads like these. if it was actually a good tank, you wouldn't see so many threads like this
If they add a tactical console why then would anyone get the Galaxy over the Excelsior or Assault cruiser?
Way I see it the Galaxy is not meant to be a ship that does a lot of damage and has offensive skills like the two aforementioned cruisers. I think it's meant to be sort of a healer big old tank that's hard to kill. At least that's how I run mine and it is mighty tough to kill. Most hull of any cruiser on the FED side, it's supposed to be a tank!
Agreed. My Bortasq and galaxy class ships are pretty evil. Hell, last pvp match I played, the galaxy ripped a Hegh'ta that was very nicely equipped to pieces, and watching the Bortasq' take down A Galaxy X Dreadnought was delightful. It's all in not only the player, but also the ship's features (such as weapons) If you can't get the setup right, even veteran players will be ripped apart.?
Vice Admiral Thylek Shran- U.S.S. Omega (Odyssey Class Battleship) United Federation Space Command
Vice Admiral T'vix RRW Talon (Scimitar Drednought)
General S'tal IKS Q'vat (Bortasq' Battle Cruiser)
the ambassador is a shining example of how much good a little station diversity can do for a ship defensibly and offensively. never do you not have enough stations for you to have 1 of every single essential skill, it even turns well because it has the same inertia score as the excelsior, but the sovereign's turn rate. great ship, if only cruiser weapons had any effect on other players anymore.
The Ambassador is exactly how i would have wished the Galaxy to be.
A bit more maneuverable, an Lt. and Ensign Tac station and a Lt. Cmdr Science. Additionally 4/3/3 Consoles. Perfect!
I wish we could get something like a "Mirror" version that looks like a Galaxy.
But there would be AGAIN some "nay" sayers coming with some woolly arguments, they don't understand themselves very much.
I wonder why they (Cryptic) refused to give the Galaxy such a BOFF & Console Layout, obviously it isn't game breaking.
Maybe some poeple would rage against that ship even more, although they obviously don't use at all, or not even like it as it is. They seem just to want to keep it useless. lol.
Anyway, i think Cryptic should at least release something like a Mirror version of it with the same stats and BOFF&Console Layout of the Ambassador, at the C-Store.
If then again some people start to rant about it, it's obvious they just hate the ship.
Since exactly the same people didn't say anything when the Ambassador came out.
theres so few good eng consoles a boat like the galaxy could use, and only 3 much more useful sci consoles is pretty meh compared to the fleet star and ody with 4. its got more hitpoints, big deal. hitpoints are just spike soak, you only need a base of about 33k and you have all you could possibly need. raw hitpoints are nearly irreverent after a certain, low, point, and if you have high resistance even escorts have more hitpoints then they need. the extra hitpoints are only going to delay the inevitable by a second or too when its gonna die anyway. now if it had like 10k more then everything else, that would be something, but it doesn't. with the cooldowns of its station power tripping over each other instead of it having access to more diverse heals, its not even going to be able to fill up all those hitpoints.
I never really got why the devs seem to think, giving a ship 10000 more hitpoints would be ok in exchange of making it completely passive.
I got a Moebius with one of my characters, and in space its got only 13000 (roughly) less Hull Hitpoints than a Galaxy Class...
Compared to it's offensive capabilities, this is way too much IMO.
On the other hand, to really compensate the complete passiveness of a ship like the Fleet Galaxy it should get at least twice as much Hitpoints.
So if Cryptic really wanted it to be a "Tank", then it should have comparatively much more Hitpoints, at least in the same relation as it is Firepower/Escort to Firepower/Galaxy, which would not just apply to the Galaxy, of course but all cruisers in the game.
if the galaxy had 2 or 3 better turn, i could rotate it, thanks to its low inertia, to show off another shield faceing in as long as it takes another CRF cycle to be fired. i do it all the time on kdf cruisers, and even in the excelsior. the galaxy can only have TRIBBLE TT up time too, so not being able to rotate well enough to bring a fresh facing under fire is doubly a problem.this is a real advantage ships have that are smaller and turn better wile giving up nothing for those advantages.
this is not me being in denial, this is you showing inexperience, in all your points. no one that has done a lot of pvp will disagree with anything ive said about the galaxy, they would say much worse things about it in fact. if you think i give quality game info, why are you calling this into question? i have nothing against the galaxy, its my favorite ship in canon, i would love to say nice things about it, i really would. but its bad, in every way it is possible to be bad. any apparent advantages it might seem it has in console setup or hitpoints is actually irreverent, thanks to power creep the things it has the most of now have the least value.
i know i could tank better in any other cruiser then the galaxy, i know because i have done it back to back.everyhting i have brought up are problems i ran into wile outfitting and useing it. no combination of powers that it can have can beat the ody, excelsior, ambi, assault cruiser, star cruiser or galor at tanking or avoiding damage. it has no redeeming qualities, thus the threads like these. if it was actually a good tank, you wouldn't see so many threads like this
I can only fully agree. I have tried almost all cruisers in STO in PvP for some months at least, and the Galaxy really is the least useful one.
The Star Cruiser can tank better, and has more utility becuase of its Lt. Science.
All other ships can either deal more damage and/or tank better.
Heck, even the Galor is way superior to the Galaxy, lol.
Another thing, in "real" Trek the Defiant had a superior Armor, which made it tank a Klingon Vor'cha for some minutes WITHOUT shields. Wouldn't this qualify it as a Tank, even more?
Strangely the memory of some lobbyists seems to be very selective sometimes.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Another thing, in "real" Trek the Defiant had a superior Armor, which made it tank a Klingon Vor'cha for some minutes WITHOUT shields. Wouldn't this qualify it as a Tank, even more?
Strangely the memory of some lobbyists seems to be very selective sometimes.
ERMMM...well...there was a thread a couple of years back where someone lobbied for the escorts to get the highest hull and shields because of the stunts the Defiant did.
Their argument was that the Defiant managed to get out of situations that had crushed other ships and thus it was "canon" that escorts should have more firepower and superior tanking ability over cruisers...not to mentione be faster and more maneuverable.
Leaving cruisers with...well nothing really.
And if you watch the episode in question (Way of the Warrior) you'll also notice a few other things:
-the Vor'cha was appearently armed with only one gun
-the Defiant was unable to outmaneuver it
-the tractor beam was used to deflect 50% of the Vor'cha's...ermmm...gun
-the Defiant was pretty beaten up afterwards even though the Vor'cha had used only one of (depending on the source) roughly 18 disruptor banks
So I'm not that impressed especially with the maneuverability of the Defiant.
Another thing, in "real" Trek the Defiant had a superior Armor, which made it tank a Klingon Vor'cha for some minutes WITHOUT shields. Wouldn't this qualify it as a Tank, even more?
Strangely the memory of some lobbyists seems to be very selective sometimes.
You do understand that writers don't need to follow logic or physics, right? They know in the outline, even before the script is written, what the outcome is going to be. It's called Writer's Fiat. It allows writers to immediately dismiss common sense or logic in favor of story drama. It's why the Defiant and Lakota could fight, it's why the Tamarian ship defeated the Enterprise, it's why 2 old B'rel full of Ferengi could defeat and capture the Enterprise. Writer's Fiat.
MMOs can't run on Writer's Fiat. SPGs can because they only need to deal with 1 player. MMOs need to deal with millions, who all want everything to work in their favor.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
ERMMM...well...there was a thread a couple of years back where someone lobbied for the escorts to get the highest hull and shields because of the stunts the Defiant did.
Their argument was that the Defiant managed to get out of situations that had crushed other ships and thus it was "canon" that escorts should have more firepower and superior tanking ability over cruisers...not to mentione be faster and more maneuverable.
Leaving cruisers with...well nothing really.
And if you watch the episode in question (Way of the Warrior) you'll also notice a few other things:
-the Vor'cha was appearently armed with only one gun
-the Defiant was unable to outmaneuver it
-the tractor beam was used to deflect 50% of the Vor'cha's...ermmm...gun
-the Defiant was pretty beaten up afterwards even though the Vor'cha had used only one of (depending on the source) roughly 18 disruptor banks
So I'm not that impressed especially with the maneuverability of the Defiant.
So even the defiant did thing i couldn't aor does better in STO. With all that in mind can't we say the same about the Galaxy class, just reversed?
I mean, TNG was filled with strange occurences like this, however in contrast to the Defiant, the Galaxy Class is well documented. So instead of coming up with questionable situations, where the Galaxy (especially its CREW(!) ) didn't shine, i tihnk it would be a much better idea to use the same logic, in which the Defiant was made in STO.
"... enhance its pros and make its cons above average in STO."
If you look at it from this perspective the defiant got:
Maneuverability 9/10
Tankiness 5/10
Firepower 10/10
According to the same logic, the Galaxy should get:
Maneuverability 5/10
Tankiness 10/10
Firepower 9/10
Since both ships are "hero" ships in their series, i think this comparison is valid IMO.
But wait a moment....
The Galaxy Class isn't like that at all...
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
the base stats a ship have don't make near the difference that the ships station setup does. unless, its like the bug were its got the best everything nearly, all in 1 place. across all the cruisers, the base hull doesn't mater much, the cruiser with the lowest hull even has more then enough. as long as its got a 1.0 shield mod thats enough for spike soak, its resistance not hitpioints that do you the most good. station powers are what you use to react to situations, they are your most important stat.
The T5 Exploration cruiser that is unlocked with a T4 Fleet shipyard has to compare in some way with the Odyssey. I stripped the Tac Oddy w/o the 3 univ consoles and am just using the Tac Lt slot for Tactical. The Univ Lt. Comm slot has been used as an Eng to mimic the Fleet Exploration cruiser. This build holds decent in PvP matches. Usually, the enemy finds easier kill when trying to take my ship down. I don't have the Fleet Exploration Cruiser yet, but the stats already show additional hull and possibly more shielding than the ship I already have. Not to mention it has an additional Eng Console slot. This thing can be made to work. It's not a tac ship sure. But I'm optomistic on it's qualities. For canon's sake, I will make this vessel work.
the base stats a ship have don't make near the difference that the ships station setup does. unless, its like the bug were its got the best everything nearly, all in 1 place. across all the cruisers, the base hull doesn't mater much, the cruiser with the lowest hull even has more then enough. as long as its got a 1.0 shield mod thats enough for spike soak, its resistance not hitpioints that do you the most good. station powers are what you use to react to situations, they are your most important stat.
I wonder if the devs ever played a Cruiser in STO at all.
Not to speak of trying to play it like it is in the Shows.
I mean not as healer or nanny for Escorts, but all round starship.
Seriously, i don't think so.
I think they aren't even aware about the differenced between Cruisers in STO and "real" Star Trek as we saw it on screen.
If they where, they would notice that a bit more Hull HP cannot compensate the complete lack of firepower and maneuverability at the Galaxy -R.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
<<<And if you watch the episode in question (Way of the Warrior) you'll also notice a few other things:
-the Vor'cha was appearently armed with only one gun
-the Defiant was unable to outmaneuver it
-the tractor beam was used to deflect 50% of the Vor'cha's...ermmm...gun
-the Defiant was pretty beaten up afterwards even though the Vor'cha had used only one of (depending on the source) roughly 18 disruptor banks
So I'm not that impressed especially with the maneuverability of the Defiant.>>
Hmmm. Either your memory of that episode needs refershing or you are leaving off some very important details regarding that episode.
Before the engagement, Worf clearly states that there were three Birds of Prey attacking Gul Dukats ship. When the Defiant intervened, the BOP's then attacked the Defiant, which appearently held up quite well under their firepower. Additionally, the Defiant was able to vaporize one of the BOP in a matter of seconds, which even the Ent-D was unable to do. But, let's address some of your other points:
<<-the Vor'cha was appearently armed with only one gun>>
Then by your logic, a Borg Cube has only a few "guns" since that is only what we ever see. Go rewatch the battle scene in "First Contact". The Borg Cube is shown to only actually fire beams from very few points, but does that make sense?
<<-the Defiant was unable to outmaneuver it>>
Where in the dialoge is it indicated that they were trying to? The goal was to rescue the Cardassians, and not to just blow up or randomly engage the Klingons, which Sisko tried to do when he first ordered targeting the Klingons' engines.
<<-the tractor beam was used to deflect 50% of the Vor'cha's...ermmm...gun>>
<<-the Defiant was pretty beaten up afterwards even though the Vor'cha had used only one of (depending on the source) roughly 18 disruptor banks>>
But they were taking weapons fire unshielded as basically the Ent-D did in "Generations". Hmmm. I wonder. Is 50% of a Vorcha "gun" less powerful than a 20+ year old BOP's disruptors (Ent-D)?
In any event, the Defiant was able to do something that the Ent-D just couldn't deliver: It survived its unshielded attack and was even able to destroy one of those pesky BOP's in the process.
Again, I know many of you really like the Galaxy class vessels, but the bottom line is that TNG did nothing for its battle reputation since it lost more battles than it won.
Some people have commented that it was "battle ready" because it was built afer certain frictions (Caradassians) had occurred. If that is the case and the Galaxy Class is "battle ready", then why was it still weaker than an average Romulan Warbird (according to Data in "Tin Man")? Why wasn't the Flagship equiped to be more powerful than the average Warbird?
All valid points but that is some other ship, not the Galaxy, the Galaxy is effectively a battleship and an old flagship of the Federation, during the Dominion war, they could dish out devastating damage so again Cryptic tries to rewrite Star Trek lore.
The Galaxy is NOT a tank, anymore then the Intrepid is NOT a Science Vessel
Galaxy class was a science ship. Always weird science stuff happening on that boat. And now that I recall all seven seasons of TNG it was actually a horrible combat vessel. I think Cryptic's take on the Galaxy is fairly accurate.
Galaxy class was a science ship. Always weird science stuff happening on that boat. And now that I recall all seven seasons of TNG it was actually a horrible combat vessel. I think Cryptic's take on the Galaxy is fairly accurate.
"Mr. Kim, we're Starfleet officers. Weird is part of the job" -- Janeway (Deadlock)
Weird stuff happens aboard all Starfleet vessels. That doesn't mean their all science ships.
"Mr. Kim, we're Starfleet officers. Weird is part of the job" -- Janeway (Deadlock)
Weird stuff happens aboard all Starfleet vessels. That doesn't mean their all science ships.
That's actually a good point, lol!
I find the issue is partly the lack of Galaxy-class firepower abilities, and also its inability to be flexible. Even though it could be considered a moving weapons platform, it's not. It's a multirole exploration ship.
I've seen a proposal for a Galaxy 3-pk Bundle in the C-Store section of the forums. Dontdrunkimshoot posted his proposal, and it seems reasonable. I suggest everyone check that out. It doesn't super-buff the Galaxy's offensive power, but it doesn't make the ship look weak as it is right now, either.
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The Galaxy, The Galaxy Retrofit, The Fleet Galaxy and the Galaxy-X are all versions of the same ship
They're not versions of the same ship. The Galaxy Retrofit is a version of the T4 Galaxy. The Fleet Galaxy is a fleet version of the Retrofit Galaxy. Those are all versions of the same ship.
The Enterprise-D variant is represented by the T4 ship. That is the "bad" peace loving Galaxy class. The Galaxy-R retrofit is response to Borg/Dominion war and thus should be much better prepared for battle.
Anyway, it's a little funny that people claim its a "peace ship" when It had a secondary "battle bridge"...and I doubt it was meant to host chess battles.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The Enterprise-D variant is represented by the T4 ship. That is the "bad" peace loving Galaxy class. The Galaxy-R retrofit is response to Borg/Dominion war and thus should be much better prepared for battle.
Anyway, it's a little funny that people claim its a "peace ship" when It had a secondary "battle bridge"...and I doubt it was meant to host chess battles.
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I would buy this explanation, if Excelsior and Ambassadors (even older ships) werent superior in STO. In STO = the older the better obviously. A T5 connie retrofit would have 100k hps and 6 tac consoles for example.
i dout i spelled it right lol. just for the record, here are all the pre tng conflicts i could find on memory alpha, during galaxy class development. let it never be said again that the federation was at its most docile and peaceful during the galaxy's development
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Tzenkethi_War
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Sheliak_Conflict
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Cardassian_War
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galen_border_conflicts
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tholian
it doesn't reference a specific war with tholians, but there was all this info
Later aggressions
Contact with the Tholians over the next century would be sporadic. In 2353, the Tholians destroyed a Federation starbase. The only survivor of this attack was Kyle Riker, the father of Starfleet Commander William T. Riker. (TNG: "The Icarus Factor")
This attack was said to have taken place during "The Tholian Conflict." In the script of DS9: "Homefront" it is further stated that Admiral Leyton is "a veteran of conflicts with the Romulans, Cardassians, Borg, and the Tholians."
Tholian attacks would remain frequent enough for Starfleet to develop Tholian-based battle simulations. In 2355, during one such simulation, William T. Riker used a notable strategy to calculate a sensory blind spot on a Tholian vessel. (TNG: "Peak Performance")
They would remain a threat well into the 2360s, when it was anticipated by Klingon Special Emissary K'Ehleyr that if a Klingon Civil War were to break out in 2367, the Tholians might eventually be involved. This fear, however, did not come to pass when the civil war broke out months later. (TNG: "Reunion")
The Excelsior is an enigma. It was built and sold OP and then they were stuck with it that way - you can't really nerf something that someone bought extra without causing even more player rage then leaving it OP has caused. I would not have released it as a better combat Cruiser then the Sovereign, but that was nearly 3 years ago now.
So starfleet command seems to think that peace never ends.
I don't think Starfleet command does plan its ship design in legislative periodes, lol.
Seriously if that's the whole argumend why the Excelsior is much heavier armed than the Galaxy, althrough the Excelsior is almost 100 years older than the Galaxy, then i have no idea how to argue any further.
For me this doesn't make any sense but if it does for you, then i must be from another planet and your logic just goes beyond me.
Still no one can explain me why making the Galaxy Class even playable is such a problem.
Crypitc even made the Akira the Torpedo/Carrier/Esscort boat some people wanted her to be. But to give the Galaxy Class a bit more utility or Firepower is such a problem?
...just pathetic TBH.
Personally i'm just tired to argue the same stuff to the same people over and over.
If you can't admit the three science consoles, 5 eng consoles, and the highest cruiser HP in the Federaton fleet make the Fleet Galaxy an amazing tank regardless of boff setup than this is denial.
If you really think a degree or three of turn rate will help you against an escort or sci on your tail thats even more ridiculous. If you think it makes a difference against cruisers with 1-3 degrees better turning that's weird too.
DDIS, people rely on you for quality game info, misleading them like this is not cool.
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Answered above. Apparently you're not bothering to read. Zeal for the Galaxy clouds the visions I guess.
Somehow I doubt that. Having watched you make the same statements in several different threads even since I've been back to the forum this month I would bet my life that you'll never stop demanding your favorite ship be as good as you want it to be no matter what anyone else might say.
But of course someone is always against anything, i wonder where you where when the Excelsior was introduced, but wait.... introducing it must have been a clever move ...
So, sorry for wasting your time.
Btw, why do you even care?
The Galaxy already is the worst ship in the game and the devs are NOT planning to do anything about it.
You have already won !
Cheers
Clearly you haven't tried the Fleet Ambassador. I have one and it's a beast compared to the Fleet Galaxy. If you fit it out for pure healing with Aux2SIF 3, ET3, TSS3, HE 2, EPTS 2, PH 1, it will tank a Tactical cube as easily as any Fleet Galaxy.
I'd even go so far as to say it's superior to the Fleet Excelsior because of the Lt. Cmdr science options. And, you can have three tac boffs with Romulan Operative traits instead of just one, making its critical hit potential outweigh the Flexcelsior's raw dps.
Second, I've already commented on the Excelsior design. One mistake shouldn't automatically require them to make 10 more. As the old saying goes: "two wrongs don't make a right."
Well, if you were around here 3 years ago you would have seen that I was complaining about why an old ship should be getting a T5 version at all. It should have stayed as a T3 only version - but Cryptic was hurting financially and wanted to make as much money as they could.
Just because I don't follow the belief that you have that the Galaxy should be god-like doesn't mean I don't love the Galaxy. I simply understand that it wasn't designed to be an offensive powerhouse. It's a tanking ship, not a DPS ship.
theres so few good eng consoles a boat like the galaxy could use, and only 3 much more useful sci consoles is pretty meh compared to the fleet star and ody with 4. its got more hitpoints, big deal. hitpoints are just spike soak, you only need a base of about 33k and you have all you could possibly need. raw hitpoints are nearly irreverent after a certain, low, point, and if you have high resistance even escorts have more hitpoints then they need. the extra hitpoints are only going to delay the inevitable by a second or too when its gonna die anyway. now if it had like 10k more then everything else, that would be something, but it doesn't. with the cooldowns of its station power tripping over each other instead of it having access to more diverse heals, its not even going to be able to fill up all those hitpoints.
if the galaxy had 2 or 3 better turn, i could rotate it, thanks to its low inertia, to show off another shield faceing in as long as it takes another CRF cycle to be fired. i do it all the time on kdf cruisers, and even in the excelsior. the galaxy can only have TRIBBLE TT up time too, so not being able to rotate well enough to bring a fresh facing under fire is doubly a problem.this is a real advantage ships have that are smaller and turn better wile giving up nothing for those advantages.
this is not me being in denial, this is you showing inexperience, in all your points. no one that has done a lot of pvp will disagree with anything ive said about the galaxy, they would say much worse things about it in fact. if you think i give quality game info, why are you calling this into question? i have nothing against the galaxy, its my favorite ship in canon, i would love to say nice things about it, i really would. but its bad, in every way it is possible to be bad. any apparent advantages it might seem it has in console setup or hitpoints is actually irreverent, thanks to power creep the things it has the most of now have the least value.
i know i could tank better in any other cruiser then the galaxy, i know because i have done it back to back.everyhting i have brought up are problems i ran into wile outfitting and useing it. no combination of powers that it can have can beat the ody, excelsior, ambi, assault cruiser, star cruiser or galor at tanking or avoiding damage. it has no redeeming qualities, thus the threads like these. if it was actually a good tank, you wouldn't see so many threads like this
Agreed. My Bortasq and galaxy class ships are pretty evil. Hell, last pvp match I played, the galaxy ripped a Hegh'ta that was very nicely equipped to pieces, and watching the Bortasq' take down A Galaxy X Dreadnought was delightful. It's all in not only the player, but also the ship's features (such as weapons) If you can't get the setup right, even veteran players will be ripped apart.?
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General S'tal IKS Q'vat (Bortasq' Battle Cruiser)
A bit more maneuverable, an Lt. and Ensign Tac station and a Lt. Cmdr Science. Additionally 4/3/3 Consoles. Perfect!
I wish we could get something like a "Mirror" version that looks like a Galaxy.
But there would be AGAIN some "nay" sayers coming with some woolly arguments, they don't understand themselves very much.
I wonder why they (Cryptic) refused to give the Galaxy such a BOFF & Console Layout, obviously it isn't game breaking.
Maybe some poeple would rage against that ship even more, although they obviously don't use at all, or not even like it as it is. They seem just to want to keep it useless. lol.
Anyway, i think Cryptic should at least release something like a Mirror version of it with the same stats and BOFF&Console Layout of the Ambassador, at the C-Store.
If then again some people start to rant about it, it's obvious they just hate the ship.
Since exactly the same people didn't say anything when the Ambassador came out.
I never really got why the devs seem to think, giving a ship 10000 more hitpoints would be ok in exchange of making it completely passive.
I got a Moebius with one of my characters, and in space its got only 13000 (roughly) less Hull Hitpoints than a Galaxy Class...
Compared to it's offensive capabilities, this is way too much IMO.
On the other hand, to really compensate the complete passiveness of a ship like the Fleet Galaxy it should get at least twice as much Hitpoints.
So if Cryptic really wanted it to be a "Tank", then it should have comparatively much more Hitpoints, at least in the same relation as it is Firepower/Escort to Firepower/Galaxy, which would not just apply to the Galaxy, of course but all cruisers in the game.
I can only fully agree. I have tried almost all cruisers in STO in PvP for some months at least, and the Galaxy really is the least useful one.
The Star Cruiser can tank better, and has more utility becuase of its Lt. Science.
All other ships can either deal more damage and/or tank better.
Heck, even the Galor is way superior to the Galaxy, lol.
Another thing, in "real" Trek the Defiant had a superior Armor, which made it tank a Klingon Vor'cha for some minutes WITHOUT shields. Wouldn't this qualify it as a Tank, even more?
Strangely the memory of some lobbyists seems to be very selective sometimes.
ERMMM...well...there was a thread a couple of years back where someone lobbied for the escorts to get the highest hull and shields because of the stunts the Defiant did.
Their argument was that the Defiant managed to get out of situations that had crushed other ships and thus it was "canon" that escorts should have more firepower and superior tanking ability over cruisers...not to mentione be faster and more maneuverable.
Leaving cruisers with...well nothing really.
And if you watch the episode in question (Way of the Warrior) you'll also notice a few other things:
-the Vor'cha was appearently armed with only one gun
-the Defiant was unable to outmaneuver it
-the tractor beam was used to deflect 50% of the Vor'cha's...ermmm...gun
-the Defiant was pretty beaten up afterwards even though the Vor'cha had used only one of (depending on the source) roughly 18 disruptor banks
So I'm not that impressed especially with the maneuverability of the Defiant.
MMOs can't run on Writer's Fiat. SPGs can because they only need to deal with 1 player. MMOs need to deal with millions, who all want everything to work in their favor.
So even the defiant did thing i couldn't aor does better in STO. With all that in mind can't we say the same about the Galaxy class, just reversed?
I mean, TNG was filled with strange occurences like this, however in contrast to the Defiant, the Galaxy Class is well documented. So instead of coming up with questionable situations, where the Galaxy (especially its CREW(!) ) didn't shine, i tihnk it would be a much better idea to use the same logic, in which the Defiant was made in STO.
"... enhance its pros and make its cons above average in STO."
If you look at it from this perspective the defiant got:
Maneuverability 9/10
Tankiness 5/10
Firepower 10/10
According to the same logic, the Galaxy should get:
Maneuverability 5/10
Tankiness 10/10
Firepower 9/10
Since both ships are "hero" ships in their series, i think this comparison is valid IMO.
But wait a moment....
The Galaxy Class isn't like that at all...
I wonder if the devs ever played a Cruiser in STO at all.
Not to speak of trying to play it like it is in the Shows.
I mean not as healer or nanny for Escorts, but all round starship.
Seriously, i don't think so.
I think they aren't even aware about the differenced between Cruisers in STO and "real" Star Trek as we saw it on screen.
If they where, they would notice that a bit more Hull HP cannot compensate the complete lack of firepower and maneuverability at the Galaxy -R.
-the Vor'cha was appearently armed with only one gun
-the Defiant was unable to outmaneuver it
-the tractor beam was used to deflect 50% of the Vor'cha's...ermmm...gun
-the Defiant was pretty beaten up afterwards even though the Vor'cha had used only one of (depending on the source) roughly 18 disruptor banks
So I'm not that impressed especially with the maneuverability of the Defiant.>>
Hmmm. Either your memory of that episode needs refershing or you are leaving off some very important details regarding that episode.
Before the engagement, Worf clearly states that there were three Birds of Prey attacking Gul Dukats ship. When the Defiant intervened, the BOP's then attacked the Defiant, which appearently held up quite well under their firepower. Additionally, the Defiant was able to vaporize one of the BOP in a matter of seconds, which even the Ent-D was unable to do. But, let's address some of your other points:
<<-the Vor'cha was appearently armed with only one gun>>
Then by your logic, a Borg Cube has only a few "guns" since that is only what we ever see. Go rewatch the battle scene in "First Contact". The Borg Cube is shown to only actually fire beams from very few points, but does that make sense?
<<-the Defiant was unable to outmaneuver it>>
Where in the dialoge is it indicated that they were trying to? The goal was to rescue the Cardassians, and not to just blow up or randomly engage the Klingons, which Sisko tried to do when he first ordered targeting the Klingons' engines.
<<-the tractor beam was used to deflect 50% of the Vor'cha's...ermmm...gun>>
<<-the Defiant was pretty beaten up afterwards even though the Vor'cha had used only one of (depending on the source) roughly 18 disruptor banks>>
But they were taking weapons fire unshielded as basically the Ent-D did in "Generations". Hmmm. I wonder. Is 50% of a Vorcha "gun" less powerful than a 20+ year old BOP's disruptors (Ent-D)?
In any event, the Defiant was able to do something that the Ent-D just couldn't deliver: It survived its unshielded attack and was even able to destroy one of those pesky BOP's in the process.
Again, I know many of you really like the Galaxy class vessels, but the bottom line is that TNG did nothing for its battle reputation since it lost more battles than it won.
Some people have commented that it was "battle ready" because it was built afer certain frictions (Caradassians) had occurred. If that is the case and the Galaxy Class is "battle ready", then why was it still weaker than an average Romulan Warbird (according to Data in "Tin Man")? Why wasn't the Flagship equiped to be more powerful than the average Warbird?
Galaxy class was a science ship. Always weird science stuff happening on that boat. And now that I recall all seven seasons of TNG it was actually a horrible combat vessel. I think Cryptic's take on the Galaxy is fairly accurate.
"Mr. Kim, we're Starfleet officers. Weird is part of the job" -- Janeway (Deadlock)
Weird stuff happens aboard all Starfleet vessels. That doesn't mean their all science ships.
That's actually a good point, lol!
I find the issue is partly the lack of Galaxy-class firepower abilities, and also its inability to be flexible. Even though it could be considered a moving weapons platform, it's not. It's a multirole exploration ship.
I've seen a proposal for a Galaxy 3-pk Bundle in the C-Store section of the forums. Dontdrunkimshoot posted his proposal, and it seems reasonable. I suggest everyone check that out. It doesn't super-buff the Galaxy's offensive power, but it doesn't make the ship look weak as it is right now, either.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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Heh. I thought the Galaxy worked perfectly for you?
"We are talking about cruisers. Cruisers are for self-heals or team-heals, not damage."
How's the Galaxy weak?
The Galaxy and Galaxy X are two different ships. Much of this thread is discussing the Retrofit Galaxy, and its Fleet upgrade.
They're not versions of the same ship. The Galaxy Retrofit is a version of the T4 Galaxy. The Fleet Galaxy is a fleet version of the Retrofit Galaxy. Those are all versions of the same ship.
The Galaxy X is a completely different ship.
If that's the case, can you show me where I can obtain the science version of the Galaxy? Or the Galaxy 3-pack with all three versions?
Anyway, it's a little funny that people claim its a "peace ship" when It had a secondary "battle bridge"...and I doubt it was meant to host chess battles.
it was a precaution.