Do remember that the Galaxy Retrofit has been here long before the Odyssey came out. I bought the ship way back in around April due to the fact that it was, at the time, still a viable ship.
Although I admittedly an a fan of the Galaxy-class starship, that has no influence over my continued efforts to have the Galaxy-class fixed in relation to other ships. I am simply using facts from the show - which cannot be disputed, since they are the source material for this whole game - and applying them here. Fanboy? Yes. Letting that love affect my arguments? No.
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"It seems the Defiant has had ablative armor installed that wasn't included in the reports to Starfleet."
Both ships had upgrades. And even with that, it is clear that the conclusion was that the Lakota would have destroyed the Defiant instantly had it used quantumn torps (and no doubt the Defiant would have done very serious damage to the Lakota if it had used its own photon torps).
.
It was stated that the defiant was resisting the Lakotas enhanced phaser firepower thanks to said ablative armour which is why they were ordered to use quantums if necessary to stop them.
Both ships were aiming to disable to not destroy up until the ending of the episode. The Defiant could of just as easily of blown the Lakota out the water with its own quantum torps if they had the mind to, it might even of been easier for them since the Lakota didn't have the ablative armour.
So yeah it was a more of a stalemate than anything with each ship having the ability to destroy the other if they were not holding back because of the whole federation vs federation issue.
Do remember that the Galaxy Retrofit has been here long before the Odyssey came out. I bought the ship way back in around April due to the fact that it was, at the time, still a viable ship.
Although I admittedly an a fan of the Galaxy-class starship, that has no influence over my continued efforts to have the Galaxy-class fixed in relation to other ships. I am simply using facts from the show - which cannot be disputed, since they are the source material for this whole game - and applying them here. Fanboy? Yes. Letting that love affect my arguments? No.
i got my gal-r before free to play came out lol
at the time it was one of the first few c-store ships
The inane if not borderline stupid idea, that the galaxy class ships combat ablity was like a miranda class ship, is easy to disprove. However for a example in: sacrifice of angels (ds9) miranda class vessels were one-shot cannon fodder, to dominion ships unlike the galaxy class.
Also the point that a jem'hadar assault "bug" ship took out the u.s.s. odyssey. (the jem'hadar ds9) holds no merit anymore. The reason why is neither the federation or klingon shields at the time could resist dominion phased polaron weapons at that point since they knew next to nothing about them.
All valid points but that is some other ship, not the Galaxy, the Galaxy is effectively a battleship and an old flagship of the Federation, during the Dominion war, they could dish out devastating damage so again Cryptic tries to rewrite Star Trek lore.
The Galaxy is NOT a tank, anymore then the Intrepid is NOT a Science Vessel
The Galaxy's primary purpose was Exploration, not as a battleship, that's why unlike the more battle focused Sovergien it had families aboard.
The Galaxy class was designed from before the dominion war, before the Borg, at a time of peace, where exploration was focus, not war.
At the time the Galaxy class was powerful in firepower, but its greatest strength in battle was durablity, the priority to protect the families on board in case of nasty surprises when exploring.
The defiant on the other hand was not designed for exploration, its was designed to fight the borg and latter adapted to fighting the dominion when it finally got build.
The Galaxy's primary purpose was Exploration, not as a battleship, that's why unlike the more battle focused Sovergien it had families aboard.
The Galaxy class was designed from before the dominion war, before the Borg, at a time of peace, where exploration was focus, not war.
At the time the Galaxy class was powerful in firepower, but its greatest strength in battle was durablity, the priority to protect the families on board in case of nasty surprises when exploring.
The defiant on the other hand was not designed for exploration, its was designed to fight the borg and latter adapted to fighting the dominion when it finally got build.
One word, refit. Pickup trucks were also designed to carry cargo, yet in some places they mount machine guns or rocket launchers on them.
Galaxy, was not designed in peace time. It was designed when there were conficts with cardies and tholians and other species. So why would anyone build a starship, that can not act in time of war. Its not an oberth, it was made to be the flagship of federation.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The only reason we have to discuss this is because some stupid producer thought the Galaxy Class wouldn't fit to the big screen, so they let the Big "D" die an underserving and unworthy death. Just to be replaced with a ship that resembles more Kirks Enterprise so the average movie audience that didn't watch 178 episodes of TNG reckognizes the second TNG movie as a Star Trek movie.
So they introduced the would-be "cooler looking" Sovereign and ignored the previous 2 Enterprise Ship designs and continued with a streched Constitution/Excelsior mix.
Anyway, if that wouldn't have happend we could have seen the Enterprise "D" in ST8 - 10 fighting big cinema worthy battles and no one would ever doubt it's firepower or battleworthyness in general.
According to the TNG manual (which was written by people responsible for the technical stuff in TNG) clearly shows that it is more than capable to engage into large scale battles and win.
I wonder why no one ever suggested the Galaxy Class to get something like a Torpedo Spread III console?
A ship that was able to fire at least 10 Torpedoes on a row at multiple targets clearly qualifies for something like that. Additionally as being shown multiple times in the show it was also able to utilize at least some Beam Overload and Beam Fire At will power.
So i wonder if all this would have been known about another ship, i bet that ship would have gotten some special consoles like the Vesta for example.
Heck they even gave the Ferengi Marauder a special combat console, althrough we never saw a Marauder fire even one shot!
Why can't we get something similar for the Galaxy Class?
Couldn't the Galaxy Class serve just a similar purpose like the Assault Crusier just with different means?
Ok i get that therer had to be some uber tank in this game, but couldn't they just use their jupiter Class Dreadnought for that role? Why completely roll up the Galaxy Class and make it a completely different ship?
Sorry, i don't get it. Is mr. rivera completely dominating everything related to ships at CRYPTIC that even the most obvious things are getting ignored?
I think i have to make something clear here, initially i wasn't a big fan of the Galaxy Class but this unfairness is almost not bearable.
Some dev please explain this to me.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Galaxy, was not designed in peace time. It was designed when there were conficts with cardies and tholians and other species. So why would anyone build a starship, that can not act in time of war. Its not an oberth, it was made to be the flagship of federation.
Um, no.
The Cardassian/Bajorian war had largely ended by the time the Galaxy class was put into construction, and didn't involve the Federation directly after the Federation withdrew from the conflict. The Tholians had not, and still were not at last note in the series, been seen since the time of TOS, and were largely content to stay behind their Assembly boundaries. The Romulans had retreated from galactic affairs, the Klingons were nominal allies, and the only hostilities that were occurring were isolated incidents with local planetary systems.
The time of the Galaxy class design and launch was an unprecedented period of peace for the Federation, and one where many in the Federation questioned putting even the weaponry the Galaxy had on the ship as excessive. Starfleet ships, it was surmised, would be explorers and diplomatic ships, rather than needing to be military ships. That went so far as to allow Starfleet to agree to have the Galaxy set up for long-term habitation by civilian families. As a result, the Galaxy class were designed first and foremost to be exploration and diplomatic ships, with the engineering capabilities second to none, science facilities good and able to be expanded, and tactical systems as a necessary but last consideration intended purely for defense. In short, the Galaxy became the ship that embodied exactly the ideals the Federation, and thus became the natural ship to represent the Federation to all the new and peaceful races the Federation were certain were just waiting to be discovered.
All of that came crashing down when the Romulans returned with new ships and a new mandate on galactic expansion, the Borg were made aware of the existence of new technology and races, the Dominion surged through the wormhole, the Klingon Empire decided the Federation weren't the allies they wanted, and several races attempted invasion of the Federation. Faced with these, Starfleet had to revise their plans for their follow-on ships back to partial warships, and the Sovereign and Defiant classes were born, each without the ideas that the galaxy was a place inherently peaceful.
(Note: If you think this is far-fetched, many people now do not remember very similar arguments that raged after the end of the Cold War, and the 'peace dividend' that was all anyone could talk about back then. And, this is born out in the ST:TNG Technical Manual I purchased back when ST:TNG was still on the first season, where it notes how the Galaxy class was controvertial for the number of weapons Starfleet put on it when it seemed there were no enemies to fight)
Agreed. The Galaxy-class was never designed with combat as it's first and foremost function. The Galaxy-class was a "peace battleship" - in other words, sure, it was the most tactically capable ship in the Federation fleet in the 2360's, but its purpose was never combat, instead it was designed, as danqueller said, for exploration and diplomatic functions, as well as scientific pursuits (as mentioned often in TNG when such-and-such department was running some kind of survey or sweep). Compared to the other races' ships (such as the venerable Vor'cha and mysterious D'Deridex classes), the Galaxy-class was either on par or lagging a bit behind.
However, this in no way means that the Galaxy-class is any less tactically capable. The Galaxy-class is a tank, and can take a whole ton of damage, but it can dish it out as well - maybe not as much as the newer Steamrunner, Defiant, Akira, or Sovereign classes, but it's still quite a capable ship - evidenced by the sheer number of Galaxy-class ships flying around in fleets in the Dominion War. This game doesn't show that to be true - although the Galaxy-Retrofit can take some damage, it can't dish it out as much as it could in DS9's Dominion War battles.
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the USS galaxy was launched in 2357 for class shake down and problem testing. the USS Yamato and the USS Enterprise where launched in 2364 2 years before the end of the cardassian war in 2366 when the official cease fire was signed
but the cardassian war was not even thought up until the third season of TNG when they started going into miles obrians back story. but yes the galaxy was designed and built during a time of war
Isn't it obvious? The Galaxy sells regardless. If it was relevant, it would be the most common ship out there. Even in its irrelevancy, its still a relatively common ship.
I want a relevant Galaxy class as much as anyone (preferably pigeon holed into supporting allies), but I would think Cryptic's view of it was obvious.
never once said it was but people saying it should suck tactically because it was built during peace time is incorrect to do the retcon they did durring TNG
only thing i want the ship to have is an ensign universal if it had that i would be more then pleased
never once said it was but people saying it should suck tactically because it was built during peace time is incorrect to do their own retcon they did in TNG
I follow; the fact that it has saucer separation at all should be indication enough.
If there's no conflict, there's no value in separating the saucer to leave behind in a safe location while the drive section plays escort-wannabe. There's no value in trying to separate while already in combat.
You might be a good person to ask, but what's the retcon behind the saucer section? Was it ever explained? I don't recall much of an explanation in TNG, and like I've said elsewhere, the fact that they used it all of 2-3 times in the series is a reflection of just how useless the separation feature is.
Eh, I've always seen the Galaxy as more of a mobile starbase more than an actual warship. It always had a large compliment of civilian crew on board. Yes, it was armed to the teeth(much as a starbase would be), but it never struck me as being designed with combat as its primary purpose.
Problem is, that doesn't really translate over to a game like STO where we don't really have non-combat oriented 'slots' on our ships. If we had to slot things like survey drones(for exploration) and diplomatic quarters and such for our ships, I'm sure the Galaxy would be a very attractive ship to have.
not really all i remember is when worf was talking to some klingon's (later finding out one was his brother) saying that the enterprise could separate from the saucer section turning the battle section into a formidable combat vessel doubling it's combat abilities
what are the 2 things an explorer can expect? peaceful contact or hostile contact. looks to me like the galaxy, and basically all other starfleet cruisers, are built to handle both situations.
explorer =/= underguned. the galaxy in fact is the most modern federation battleship. rather then being built to be ether a warship or a science vessel, it was built so about 70% of its interior could be modular, something that made the ship extreamly flexible during times of piece, and times of war. the enterprise D was fully stocked to be a diplomatic and scientific flagship, though it still possessed the same armaments of a galaxy set up war time. if it wasn't the size that it was, it would not have the capacity to have such long main arrays, or such large torpedo launchers.
seems the war time galaxys were set up to be largely empty shells, giving them no doubt incredible damage soak without taking much critical damage. they could just as well be setup for massive troop deployments, function as a full on carrier with the already enormous main hanger taking up even more room, have enhanced inner hull armor, additional fusion and impulse reactors, larger shield generators, more durable and reenforced power and support systems for the large arrays, highly expanded torpedo inventories, etc... soon you would basically be looking at a negvar in terms of warship status.
this is why giving the galaxy all universal stations, save for the COM and LTC, makes a huge amount of sense. even making the LTC universal would be appropriate. universal consoels too, 10 to work with. minimum of 2, max of 5 in any of the 3 types. with how they have spoiled other ships with all these built in extras, i'd say the most iconic 24th century ship is just as deserving of significant love.
the USS galaxy was launched in 2357 for class shake down and problem testing. the USS Yamato and the USS Enterprise where launched in 2364 2 years before the end of the cardassian war in 2366 when the official cease fire was signed
but the cardassian war was not even thought up until the third season of TNG when they started going into miles obrians back story. but yes the galaxy was designed and built during a time of war
In 2353, the Tholians destroyed a Federation starbase. The only survivor of this attack was Kyle Riker, the father of Starfleet Commander William T. Riker. (TNG: "The Icarus Factor")
This attack was said to have taken place during "The Tholian Conflict." In the script of DS9: "Homefront" it is further stated that Admiral Leyton is "a veteran of conflicts with the Romulans, Cardassians, Borg, and the Tholians."
Tholian attacks would remain frequent enough for Starfleet to develop Tholian-based battle simulations. In 2355, during one such simulation, William T. Riker used a notable strategy to calculate a sensory blind spot on a Tholian vessel. (TNG: "Peak Performance")
They would remain a threat well into the 2360s, when it was anticipated by Klingon Special Emissary K'Ehleyr that if a Klingon Civil War were to break out in 2367, the Tholians might eventually be involved. This fear, however, did not come to pass when the civil war broke out months later. (TNG: "Reunion")
So according to TNG itself, the Galaxy was built during a time where there were conflicts with the Cardassians and the Tholians.
That is true, but it would be the equivalent of saying that the Constitution refitting program took place in a wartime era, just because of the Balance of Terror skirmish and the Organian Incidents in TOS. Even though they were significant periods in Federation history, it doesn't mean wartime.
Wartime means that the governments are at war against each other. The Federation entered a wartime state after the Dominion openly declared war over races in the Alpha Quadrant. That's a wartime. The 2360's? Not wartime.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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That is true, but it would be the equivalent of saying that the Constitution refitting program took place in a wartime era, just because of the Balance of Terror skirmish and the Organian Incidents in TOS. Even though they were significant periods in Federation history, it doesn't mean wartime.
Wartime means that the governments are at war against each other. The Federation entered a wartime state after the Dominion openly declared war over races in the Alpha Quadrant. That's a wartime. The 2360's? Not wartime.
They developed battle strategies.
"Tholian attacks would remain frequent enough for Starfleet to develop Tholian-based battle simulations. "
That's a war.
I'm not saying the Galaxy was developed as war ship. Just that it was developed in a time when the Federation was fighting two separate governments.
Usually someone goes and posts that the Excelsior was developed during a time when the Federation was fighting the Klingons but that the Galaxy was developed during peace time.
That's just not the case. The Galaxy was indeed developed during a time when the Federation was not at peace.
yup it was more of just to point out that the galaxy was designed and put into service wile the federation was at war.
the cardassian federation war was a formal war as many references where made to it. that is why they had the demilitarized zone that led to the maquis up rising that was the center of some TNG, DS9, and VOY episodes DS9 really got into the politics of it though
at most the Galaxy and the excelsior where command ships as they would have lead most battle groups of there time. this was shown with the enterprise during the klingon civil war. the enterprise acted as a mobile command base and dealt with the fleet organization and deployment during the blockade
what are the 2 things an explorer can expect? peaceful contact or hostile contact. looks to me like the galaxy, and basically all other starfleet cruisers, are built to handle both situations.
explorer =/= underguned. the galaxy in fact is the most modern federation battleship. rather then being built to be ether a warship or a science vessel, it was built so about 70% of its interior could be modular, something that made the ship extreamly flexible during times of piece, and times of war. the enterprise D was fully stocked to be a diplomatic and scientific flagship, though it still possessed the same armaments of a galaxy set up war time. if it wasn't the size that it was, it would not have the capacity to have such long main arrays, or such large torpedo launchers.
seems the war time galaxys were set up to be largely empty shells, giving them no doubt incredible damage soak without taking much critical damage. they could just as well be setup for massive troop deployments, function as a full on carrier with the already enormous main hanger taking up even more room, have enhanced inner hull armor, additional fusion and impulse reactors, larger shield generators, more durable and reenforced power and support systems for the large arrays, highly expanded torpedo inventories, etc... soon you would basically be looking at a negvar in terms of warship status.
this is why giving the galaxy all universal stations, save for the COM and LTC, makes a huge amount of sense. even making the LTC universal would be appropriate. universal consoels too, 10 to work with. minimum of 2, max of 5 in any of the 3 types. with how they have spoiled other ships with all these built in extras, i'd say the most iconic 24th century ship is just as deserving of significant love.
Althrough i completely and 100% absolutely agree with you , i think we should be a bit more realistic here, the devs will never, ever give the Galaxy Class any universal BOFF Stations or Consoles. Not after 2 (or 3?) years of asking and begging.
I just had an inspiration, maybe we are asking for the wrong thing?
Instead of changing the (Fleet) Galaxy -R BOFF/Console layout, maybe we should ask the devs to get something like a exclusive console bundle that makes the Galaxy Class being able to do what we expect her to do.
Console 1:
Beam Array console, Beam Overload II/Fire at will II
Console 2:
Torpedo Spread Console: Torpedo Spread III
Console 3:
Extend Shields Console: Extend Shields II
Synergy Effect:
All three combined would give a synergy effect similar to the D'Koras Battle mode:
+30 Starship Energy Weapon Damage
+30 Starship Projectile Weapon Damage
+30% Turn Rate
+10 Weapon Power
+5 Engine Power
-5 Auxiliary Power
That's just an premature idea, maybe someone has some more fitting abilities in mind.
They could sell that 3 consoles pack for a relatively big amount of ZEN and could make ANOTHER $ with the Galaxy Class without changing the ship itself at all.
What do you think about it?
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
I would go with another route. Judging by the development of the Andorian escort and the 5th weapon slot. I would do this.
Change Galaxy weapon loadout from 4/4, to 5/3.
In the 5th slot, there would be a massive beam array, with just one shot per cycle, with that nifty charge up animation from series. This could only be enhanced by Beam Overload for massive spike.
It would be part of 3 piece set.
2nd piece, would be a dual photon torpedo launcher, which would work like omega launcher with charger. It would have 5 charges, each firing two photons.
The third piece would obviously be saucer separation console.
Now the set bonuses:
2 pieces: +5 to each subsystem power, +10 to SIF and Shield Emmiters
3 pieces : +30 phaser dng (it would thus act as 3rd tactical console)
Now the console layout could remain 5/3/2, because you could basically sacrifice one engineering console for saucer sep and get a tactical console instead via the 3-pieces set.
----
Same would go for the dreadnought, except for the console layout 5/1/4. While changing the layout to have lt.cmd tac.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I've always thought that the Z-Store Galaxy Class should have 3/3/3 for console layouts and have a Lt. Cmd universal BOFF seat. The Fleet version would get 3/3/4 and the 10th console be Engineering. At least it wouldn't threaten the Oddy sales that much aside from people really wanting to fly the Galaxy Class.
I've always thought that the Z-Store Galaxy Class should have 3/3/3 for console layouts and have a Lt. Cmd universal BOFF seat. The Fleet version would get 3/3/4 and the 10th console be Engineering. At least it wouldn't threaten the Oddy sales that much aside from people really wanting to fly the Galaxy Class.
Or let us use the Galaxy skin on the Oddy.
There is nothing like "threating the ody" Both ships cost the same basically. If anything, crappy Galaxy lowers the sales, because I will be damned before I buy the Oddy, yet I would love to pay for proper Galaxy. I have just the Dreadnought and Vice.admiral token G-R.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I would go with another route. Judging by the development of the Andorian escort and the 5th weapon slot. I would do this.
Change Galaxy weapon loadout from 4/4, to 5/3.
In the 5th slot, there would be a massive beam array, with just one shot per cycle, with that nifty charge up animation from series. This could only be enhanced by Beam Overload for massive spike.
It would be part of 3 piece set.
2nd piece, would be a dual photon torpedo launcher, which would work like omega launcher with charger. It would have 5 charges, each firing two photons.
The third piece would obviously be saucer separation console.
Now the set bonuses:
2 pieces: +5 to each subsystem power, +10 to SIF and Shield Emmiters
3 pieces : +30 phaser dng (it would thus act as 3rd tactical console)
Now the console layout could remain 5/3/2, because you could basically sacrifice one engineering console for saucer sep and get a tactical console instead via the 3-pieces set.
----
Same would go for the dreadnought, except for the console layout 5/1/4. While changing the layout to have lt.cmd tac.
Sounds nice but as i said, i don't think they'll ever change the Galaxy -R or -X anymore, at least when it comes to their BOFF or console layout or its weapon loadout.
Cryptic (or mr. rivera) is pleased to have this ship as boring and useless as possible, i don't think the responsible dev wouldn't lift a finger to enhance that ship even a bit.
Instead of your (really cool) 5th weapon slot, maybe this ability could be implemented into a additional console?
Everything else about your console proposal sounds really good!
It always irritated by the fact that the Galor and Ferengi Marauder was a much more battleworthy ship than the Galaxy, of course the Galaxy -R can handle much more damage, but it is also a teethless brick, with the only purpose to serve as target practice for enemiy escorts (man, really i hate them).
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Well I did write directly to Dan Stahl about it...thats probably as much as I could do. He said, that he forward it to the proper dev with his notes. So...maybe we will get the universal ensign at least.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Well I did write directly to Dan Stahl about it...thats probably as much as I could do. He said, that he forward it to the proper dev with his notes. So...maybe we will get the universal ensign at least.
Since i haven't found out how to write a PM in this wired forum, i would like to ask for your permission to use some ideas of you console suggestion for a seperate thread i am going to make in the "C-Store and Promotions" section.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
If you want to reach him, just write him at dstahl@crypticstudios.com. I was actually positively surprised how quickly he responded. +1 for him.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Comments
Although I admittedly an a fan of the Galaxy-class starship, that has no influence over my continued efforts to have the Galaxy-class fixed in relation to other ships. I am simply using facts from the show - which cannot be disputed, since they are the source material for this whole game - and applying them here. Fanboy? Yes. Letting that love affect my arguments? No.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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It was stated that the defiant was resisting the Lakotas enhanced phaser firepower thanks to said ablative armour which is why they were ordered to use quantums if necessary to stop them.
Both ships were aiming to disable to not destroy up until the ending of the episode. The Defiant could of just as easily of blown the Lakota out the water with its own quantum torps if they had the mind to, it might even of been easier for them since the Lakota didn't have the ablative armour.
So yeah it was a more of a stalemate than anything with each ship having the ability to destroy the other if they were not holding back because of the whole federation vs federation issue.
i got my gal-r before free to play came out lol
at the time it was one of the first few c-store ships
Also the point that a jem'hadar assault "bug" ship took out the u.s.s. odyssey. (the jem'hadar ds9) holds no merit anymore. The reason why is neither the federation or klingon shields at the time could resist dominion phased polaron weapons at that point since they knew next to nothing about them.
All anyone wants for the ship is some tlc.
[/SIGPIC]
The Galaxy's primary purpose was Exploration, not as a battleship, that's why unlike the more battle focused Sovergien it had families aboard.
The Galaxy class was designed from before the dominion war, before the Borg, at a time of peace, where exploration was focus, not war.
At the time the Galaxy class was powerful in firepower, but its greatest strength in battle was durablity, the priority to protect the families on board in case of nasty surprises when exploring.
The defiant on the other hand was not designed for exploration, its was designed to fight the borg and latter adapted to fighting the dominion when it finally got build.
One word, refit. Pickup trucks were also designed to carry cargo, yet in some places they mount machine guns or rocket launchers on them.
Galaxy, was not designed in peace time. It was designed when there were conficts with cardies and tholians and other species. So why would anyone build a starship, that can not act in time of war. Its not an oberth, it was made to be the flagship of federation.
So they introduced the would-be "cooler looking" Sovereign and ignored the previous 2 Enterprise Ship designs and continued with a streched Constitution/Excelsior mix.
Anyway, if that wouldn't have happend we could have seen the Enterprise "D" in ST8 - 10 fighting big cinema worthy battles and no one would ever doubt it's firepower or battleworthyness in general.
According to the TNG manual (which was written by people responsible for the technical stuff in TNG) clearly shows that it is more than capable to engage into large scale battles and win.
I wonder why no one ever suggested the Galaxy Class to get something like a Torpedo Spread III console?
A ship that was able to fire at least 10 Torpedoes on a row at multiple targets clearly qualifies for something like that. Additionally as being shown multiple times in the show it was also able to utilize at least some Beam Overload and Beam Fire At will power.
So i wonder if all this would have been known about another ship, i bet that ship would have gotten some special consoles like the Vesta for example.
Heck they even gave the Ferengi Marauder a special combat console, althrough we never saw a Marauder fire even one shot!
Why can't we get something similar for the Galaxy Class?
Couldn't the Galaxy Class serve just a similar purpose like the Assault Crusier just with different means?
Ok i get that therer had to be some uber tank in this game, but couldn't they just use their jupiter Class Dreadnought for that role? Why completely roll up the Galaxy Class and make it a completely different ship?
Sorry, i don't get it. Is mr. rivera completely dominating everything related to ships at CRYPTIC that even the most obvious things are getting ignored?
I think i have to make something clear here, initially i wasn't a big fan of the Galaxy Class but this unfairness is almost not bearable.
Some dev please explain this to me.
Um, no.
The Cardassian/Bajorian war had largely ended by the time the Galaxy class was put into construction, and didn't involve the Federation directly after the Federation withdrew from the conflict. The Tholians had not, and still were not at last note in the series, been seen since the time of TOS, and were largely content to stay behind their Assembly boundaries. The Romulans had retreated from galactic affairs, the Klingons were nominal allies, and the only hostilities that were occurring were isolated incidents with local planetary systems.
The time of the Galaxy class design and launch was an unprecedented period of peace for the Federation, and one where many in the Federation questioned putting even the weaponry the Galaxy had on the ship as excessive. Starfleet ships, it was surmised, would be explorers and diplomatic ships, rather than needing to be military ships. That went so far as to allow Starfleet to agree to have the Galaxy set up for long-term habitation by civilian families. As a result, the Galaxy class were designed first and foremost to be exploration and diplomatic ships, with the engineering capabilities second to none, science facilities good and able to be expanded, and tactical systems as a necessary but last consideration intended purely for defense. In short, the Galaxy became the ship that embodied exactly the ideals the Federation, and thus became the natural ship to represent the Federation to all the new and peaceful races the Federation were certain were just waiting to be discovered.
All of that came crashing down when the Romulans returned with new ships and a new mandate on galactic expansion, the Borg were made aware of the existence of new technology and races, the Dominion surged through the wormhole, the Klingon Empire decided the Federation weren't the allies they wanted, and several races attempted invasion of the Federation. Faced with these, Starfleet had to revise their plans for their follow-on ships back to partial warships, and the Sovereign and Defiant classes were born, each without the ideas that the galaxy was a place inherently peaceful.
(Note: If you think this is far-fetched, many people now do not remember very similar arguments that raged after the end of the Cold War, and the 'peace dividend' that was all anyone could talk about back then. And, this is born out in the ST:TNG Technical Manual I purchased back when ST:TNG was still on the first season, where it notes how the Galaxy class was controvertial for the number of weapons Starfleet put on it when it seemed there were no enemies to fight)
Agreed. The Galaxy-class was never designed with combat as it's first and foremost function. The Galaxy-class was a "peace battleship" - in other words, sure, it was the most tactically capable ship in the Federation fleet in the 2360's, but its purpose was never combat, instead it was designed, as danqueller said, for exploration and diplomatic functions, as well as scientific pursuits (as mentioned often in TNG when such-and-such department was running some kind of survey or sweep). Compared to the other races' ships (such as the venerable Vor'cha and mysterious D'Deridex classes), the Galaxy-class was either on par or lagging a bit behind.
However, this in no way means that the Galaxy-class is any less tactically capable. The Galaxy-class is a tank, and can take a whole ton of damage, but it can dish it out as well - maybe not as much as the newer Steamrunner, Defiant, Akira, or Sovereign classes, but it's still quite a capable ship - evidenced by the sheer number of Galaxy-class ships flying around in fleets in the Dominion War. This game doesn't show that to be true - although the Galaxy-Retrofit can take some damage, it can't dish it out as much as it could in DS9's Dominion War battles.
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http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Federation-Cardassian_War
the USS galaxy was launched in 2357 for class shake down and problem testing. the USS Yamato and the USS Enterprise where launched in 2364 2 years before the end of the cardassian war in 2366 when the official cease fire was signed
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class
but the cardassian war was not even thought up until the third season of TNG when they started going into miles obrians back story. but yes the galaxy was designed and built during a time of war
I want a relevant Galaxy class as much as anyone (preferably pigeon holed into supporting allies), but I would think Cryptic's view of it was obvious.
That might explain the awful saucer separation experiment, but it still doesn't make the Galaxy a warship.
only thing i want the ship to have is an ensign universal if it had that i would be more then pleased
If there's no conflict, there's no value in separating the saucer to leave behind in a safe location while the drive section plays escort-wannabe. There's no value in trying to separate while already in combat.
You might be a good person to ask, but what's the retcon behind the saucer section? Was it ever explained? I don't recall much of an explanation in TNG, and like I've said elsewhere, the fact that they used it all of 2-3 times in the series is a reflection of just how useless the separation feature is.
That would seem like a very minor, very appropriate change.
Problem is, that doesn't really translate over to a game like STO where we don't really have non-combat oriented 'slots' on our ships. If we had to slot things like survey drones(for exploration) and diplomatic quarters and such for our ships, I'm sure the Galaxy would be a very attractive ship to have.
explorer =/= underguned. the galaxy in fact is the most modern federation battleship. rather then being built to be ether a warship or a science vessel, it was built so about 70% of its interior could be modular, something that made the ship extreamly flexible during times of piece, and times of war. the enterprise D was fully stocked to be a diplomatic and scientific flagship, though it still possessed the same armaments of a galaxy set up war time. if it wasn't the size that it was, it would not have the capacity to have such long main arrays, or such large torpedo launchers.
seems the war time galaxys were set up to be largely empty shells, giving them no doubt incredible damage soak without taking much critical damage. they could just as well be setup for massive troop deployments, function as a full on carrier with the already enormous main hanger taking up even more room, have enhanced inner hull armor, additional fusion and impulse reactors, larger shield generators, more durable and reenforced power and support systems for the large arrays, highly expanded torpedo inventories, etc... soon you would basically be looking at a negvar in terms of warship status.
this is why giving the galaxy all universal stations, save for the COM and LTC, makes a huge amount of sense. even making the LTC universal would be appropriate. universal consoels too, 10 to work with. minimum of 2, max of 5 in any of the 3 types. with how they have spoiled other ships with all these built in extras, i'd say the most iconic 24th century ship is just as deserving of significant love.
Building on that ...
From Memory Alpha about the Tholians
So according to TNG itself, the Galaxy was built during a time where there were conflicts with the Cardassians and the Tholians.
Wartime means that the governments are at war against each other. The Federation entered a wartime state after the Dominion openly declared war over races in the Alpha Quadrant. That's a wartime. The 2360's? Not wartime.
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They developed battle strategies.
"Tholian attacks would remain frequent enough for Starfleet to develop Tholian-based battle simulations. "
That's a war.
I'm not saying the Galaxy was developed as war ship. Just that it was developed in a time when the Federation was fighting two separate governments.
Usually someone goes and posts that the Excelsior was developed during a time when the Federation was fighting the Klingons but that the Galaxy was developed during peace time.
That's just not the case. The Galaxy was indeed developed during a time when the Federation was not at peace.
But neither ship was developed to be a war ship.
the cardassian federation war was a formal war as many references where made to it. that is why they had the demilitarized zone that led to the maquis up rising that was the center of some TNG, DS9, and VOY episodes DS9 really got into the politics of it though
at most the Galaxy and the excelsior where command ships as they would have lead most battle groups of there time. this was shown with the enterprise during the klingon civil war. the enterprise acted as a mobile command base and dealt with the fleet organization and deployment during the blockade
Althrough i completely and 100% absolutely agree with you , i think we should be a bit more realistic here, the devs will never, ever give the Galaxy Class any universal BOFF Stations or Consoles. Not after 2 (or 3?) years of asking and begging.
I just had an inspiration, maybe we are asking for the wrong thing?
Instead of changing the (Fleet) Galaxy -R BOFF/Console layout, maybe we should ask the devs to get something like a exclusive console bundle that makes the Galaxy Class being able to do what we expect her to do.
Console 1:
Beam Array console, Beam Overload II/Fire at will II
Console 2:
Torpedo Spread Console: Torpedo Spread III
Console 3:
Extend Shields Console: Extend Shields II
Synergy Effect:
All three combined would give a synergy effect similar to the D'Koras Battle mode:
+30 Starship Energy Weapon Damage
+30 Starship Projectile Weapon Damage
+30% Turn Rate
+10 Weapon Power
+5 Engine Power
-5 Auxiliary Power
That's just an premature idea, maybe someone has some more fitting abilities in mind.
They could sell that 3 consoles pack for a relatively big amount of ZEN and could make ANOTHER $ with the Galaxy Class without changing the ship itself at all.
What do you think about it?
Change Galaxy weapon loadout from 4/4, to 5/3.
In the 5th slot, there would be a massive beam array, with just one shot per cycle, with that nifty charge up animation from series. This could only be enhanced by Beam Overload for massive spike.
It would be part of 3 piece set.
2nd piece, would be a dual photon torpedo launcher, which would work like omega launcher with charger. It would have 5 charges, each firing two photons.
The third piece would obviously be saucer separation console.
Now the set bonuses:
2 pieces: +5 to each subsystem power, +10 to SIF and Shield Emmiters
3 pieces : +30 phaser dng (it would thus act as 3rd tactical console)
Now the console layout could remain 5/3/2, because you could basically sacrifice one engineering console for saucer sep and get a tactical console instead via the 3-pieces set.
----
Same would go for the dreadnought, except for the console layout 5/1/4. While changing the layout to have lt.cmd tac.
Or let us use the Galaxy skin on the Oddy.
There is nothing like "threating the ody" Both ships cost the same basically. If anything, crappy Galaxy lowers the sales, because I will be damned before I buy the Oddy, yet I would love to pay for proper Galaxy. I have just the Dreadnought and Vice.admiral token G-R.
saving up for the dreadnought just so i can have all 3 and well i would fly the dread just as i do the gal-r now just with a useful ensign slot lol
Sounds nice but as i said, i don't think they'll ever change the Galaxy -R or -X anymore, at least when it comes to their BOFF or console layout or its weapon loadout.
Cryptic (or mr. rivera) is pleased to have this ship as boring and useless as possible, i don't think the responsible dev wouldn't lift a finger to enhance that ship even a bit.
Instead of your (really cool) 5th weapon slot, maybe this ability could be implemented into a additional console?
Everything else about your console proposal sounds really good!
It always irritated by the fact that the Galor and Ferengi Marauder was a much more battleworthy ship than the Galaxy, of course the Galaxy -R can handle much more damage, but it is also a teethless brick, with the only purpose to serve as target practice for enemiy escorts (man, really i hate them).
Since i haven't found out how to write a PM in this wired forum, i would like to ask for your permission to use some ideas of you console suggestion for a seperate thread i am going to make in the "C-Store and Promotions" section.
5 FED Fleets | 3 KDF Fleets - T5 Colony on both factions